Electric Car Youtuber misinformation - BUSTED

This episode is a little different than most because I've just watched an Anti-EV KZbinrs episode which is full of lies and misinformation. So I couldn't resist in correcting it, especially as it was filmed in our back yard here in Wales in a Porsche Taycan.
Whether you're a fan of EVs, hybrids or good old fashioned petrol and diesel cars, having a strong opinion on what you prefer is fine, but lying about something to fit the narrative is too much. In this video we have to take some corrective action and go into full on 'debunk' mode. Enjoy.....
Here's the first episode we refer to:
• DRIVING my ELECTRIC CA...
and here's the second:
• Driving my ELECTRIC CA...

[@leehartshorn1479]

Had a few people when ive said i was considering going down the EV route and that a taycan was on my list of possibilities tell me i should check out his videos as hes had no end of problems So obviously i did And like you say i can see his angle and trying to be a pound shop clarkson type character and fair play to him hes got a fair few subscribers and views so cant knock him for that. But i went for an EV and so far loving it and saves me a fortune compared with my old porsche cayenne.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Poundshop Clarkson. 😆😉😂🤣

[@deanj846]

The £70k depreciation buys a Heck of a lot of petrol/diesel...and a car,insurance,tax...maintainence,

[@leehartshorn1479]

@deanj846 well he can keep doing what he's doing hopefully the price of 2nd hand ones comes down to a point I could get a taycan myself but think I may miss my old 911 soundtrack.

[@zeejimi4044]

I take it that you mean that you are “saving a fortune” ON FUEL with an EV compared to your Porsche Cayenne, but what about the total costs..???

[@warrensmith4590]

@@leehartshorn1479 at current depreciation rates you should get a 2-3 yr Taycan for around £50k or less, around -£70k from new.

[@petejones284]

Take up his offer and take a roadtrip with him and Geoff. That way you can put your side of the story on the same day, under the same conditions.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve offered Geoff a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Hopefully it’ll happen. 👍

[@CLIVETHE125]

@@ElectricClassicCars What about Lee as well ?

[@miraclemile6567]

It will never happen, they are only interested in selling lies. Amazes me that you can make money selling lies about A superior product. It just goes to show the power of the oil lobby.

[@rabsrealm]

@@ElectricClassicCars I suspect that offer won't be accepted. You'll probably have more success pushing gravy up a hill. Geoff, is today's version of that guy 100 years ago who was telling everyone to stick to their horse and cart.

[@DoctorMagick]

I'd watch that video

[@glenoxman7904]

Get the challenge sorted, you 3, Geoff in his diesel you and MacMaster in your EV's. I think you're going to have to put your money where your mouth is on this one. Really looking forward to seeing it 👍🏼

[@KKandEV]

They are not worth giving any more time. Most of their views are dated but eventually they will BOTH be driving an EV permanently like it or not.

[@Brian-om2hh]

That would be grossly unfair. McMaster's oral capacity/volume would probably far exceed anyone else's.....

[@Hasdac1896]

You should be able to drive what you like not forced into all the electric bs get a life you nutter..​@@KKandEV

[@TachyonDriver]

​@@KKandEV then it would most likely be a NOT permanently driving an EV. Where I live, and work, an EV is a moot point for me because there is ZERO infrastructure. I don't have a garage or a driveway and no charging points in the town where I work, 5.5 miles from home. On paper, my small commutes are ideal for an EV, but certainly unviable for a LONG time to come..

[@steelcitydomains2356]

​@@KKandEVyou think 😂 not in the UK they won't least not in our lifetime...do some digging and you will see what this is all really about ..and once the levels are low (hence the control aspect and all smart charging etc) they will extend the petrol and diesel aka normal sensible option again and again....money talks and they make far too much of it from fuel and alike and the million plus jobs it supports directly and indirectly in the UK alone... Bless ya please go read up stuff other than what you watch on MSM

[@forrestrobin2712]

Why don’t you Just take up his offer to do a challenge together? Then we can all judge for ourselves …

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I have offered to do a rematch but Geoff has had enough of doing challenges for now. 👍

[@williamarmstrong7199]

​@@ElectricClassicCarsthen redo his video step by step with two cars. One doing the sensible route and one doing exactly his route. Then post it as one video. State that you asked him to partisipate but he refused. Tell him exactly what you are doing though to give him ample oppertunity to partisipate.

[@steelcitydomains2356]

He's not refused though has he .... And it will be pretty boring tbh just needs a 320d and and ev of the same spec and range and go do it...same day and time and weather.... Or like some they could do nice bright sunny day no lights or heating or wipers needed no traffic and a lush no roadworks day like the other clown that tried it...not quite the same is it😂​@@williamarmstrong7199

[@Brian-om2hh]

I judged for myself some time ago.......

[@DavidPeacock1972]

@@ElectricClassicCars You keep mentioning Geoff, But you are silent on the MacMaster, Why is that? 👍

[@CheeeseToastie]

You're not supposed to leave your car plugged into a public charger overnight.

[@Hitstirrer]

Not in a high powered Rapid charger. The car should be moved from those once it's charged to the required level. Usually an hour at most. But destination low powered chargers are specifically installed for long term use as they can take 7 or 8 hours to fill an EV. Some at theme parks for all day parking whilst using the resort, and some at hotels for arrival the night before and leaving next morning.

[@Grendel650]

He's literally a 2 minute walk from the chargers. Lazy, or what??

[@DaveVantage]

@@Grendel650 Or had a drink and can't drive?

[@nickedwards2904]

@@Hitstirrer so how does that benefit anyone but the person at the front of the queue ? What a pointless thing to do , charge over 7 or 8 hours !!! that makes that charger a pointless charger

[@Grendel650]

@@DaveVantage 🤔 drinking when he knows his car will be charged in an hour? That's a serious habit, not a fault in the EV charging network.

[@nottmfunguy]

So why do people have to be abusive to him? If he is right or wrong fine, but why be abusive?

[@nottmfunguy]

@@themarcopolo2024Thats not the point. Being abusive, is that what its come too? Sending messages containing abusive language. It's completely shameful. It doesn't matter if he is pro EV or not, sending abusive message is a disgrace!

[@ElectricClassicCars]

That is not acceptable but unfortunately the way of the world now on social media. We get it all the time. People seem to think they can be rude and abusive when they hide behind a keyboard.

[@nottmfunguy]

@@ElectricClassicCars It should be a debate about the future of motoring. It should not be personal. I was abused on a comment on a channel, its shocked me. I find it very sad that it comes down to that. I understand that Lee and Geoff are a double act, I take most things with a pinch of salt, its just entertainment in my mind. Why people take it so personally either side of the debate, it's beyond me.

[@MrTjnielsen81]

@@nottmfunguy I can tell you why. It's because there's so much misinformation out there, and people like MacMaster making videos that are just flat out lying to the public about the real experience of EV ownership....it might be that MacMaster doesn't believe all the things he says and is just hamming it up for clicks, but a lot of people believe him and think it's the truth. The sheer ignorance of some of the people in his comment section is breaktaking, and he's monetising that ignorance and feeding the beast. Those of us who own and use EVs daily know that the situation is quite different to the way it's depicted.

[@HowardLeVert]

@@ElectricClassicCars There is an offensive acronym for such: GIFT (I'll leave you to look it up). I'm approaching sixty and am so saddened to see the coarsening of public behaviour and discourse - especially online. It's a reason why politics is such a mess now - we no longer have opposition, we have enemies.

[@ianjames8794]

Instead of waffling on with all the other EVangelists in your comments take Lee and Geoff up on a challenge.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’d love to but I’ve spoken to Geoff, he’s had enough of doing challenges now so isn’t up for it. But he’s going to come over anyway at some point. 👍

[@vandamonium1731]

contact Geoff MacMaster and put your money where your mouth is... as an ex EV owner of 3 vehicles (now gone to self charging hybrids) i have also been through similar issues and the last time i went to any hotels most if not all the chargers were being hogged, you are lucky to have chargers in your small village ... our nearest charger was 6 miles away as we were told NOT to have a charger at home due to weak cables and infrastructure of the network we had to charge where we could .... so go wash your hair and contact them .... im happy to follow to be a judge

[@HowardLeVert]

Last night whilst driving home along the A43, I saw my first glimpse of the future - a petrol station that ALSO showed how much electricity was charged for - a great big green sign that said 65p/kWh.

[@chrisbarron5861]

Why is the price of electricity being inflated because of the rate at which it's delivered ? The cost of electricity is the same to the charger company,. My local diesel pump has a button to deliver at high speed for hgv's but it still costs the same per litre. What scares me is the concern that charger companies will keep inflating prices as demand rises. In this video Tesco is mentioned, at 65p/kWh. In an EV returning 3miles/kWh , thats 5p per mile more than my diesel car costs me

[@djtaylorutube]

Cost of equipment to recoup. A 13A extension lead is 20 quid and can also charge the car with the same electricity quantity as a 350kW DC charger which costs tens of thousands £.

[@chrisbarron5861]

@@djtaylorutube ​@djtaylorutube wow, 3kW charging. 9 miles per hour.... I can cycle quicker than that

[@yeahokno]

Prove him wrong, put your money where your mouth is. Do it on a cold day.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve tried but it’s a no. I spoke to Geoff earlier and wanted to do a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales EV vs Diesel race but he’s not keen. Shame really as I was well up for it. 👍

[@yeahokno]

@@ElectricClassicCars Ok, thanks 👍

[@StuTubed]

@@ElectricClassicCars Funny that, isn't it. It's almost like he knows what might happen...

[@warrensmith4590]

​@@StuTubedwhy is the diesel needed. It was a Broken cheap Merc CLS 320 coating £1500 He could change for a nice spiffing 75mpg Skoda Octavia Diesel and totally wipe the floor with public EV charging costs.... With less pollution over th life of 15 years and 250,000 Kms used by EU green NCAP Vs most EVs

[@Bob-_-Smith]

I think you should offer to take him on in an electric vs electric race Then if he is telling porkies you can have it out on the channel This would be entertaining and eye opening. Full disclosure, I am a subscriber of his, I’m also neutral as I don’t have a car I mainly ride motorcycles.

[@chrisbarron5861]

I think they should go Leeds to Paris

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve spoken to Geoff and offered a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales match but I think he’s had enough of these challenges. I’d love to do it though.

[@chrisbarron5861]

@@ElectricClassicCars why not do a big trip ?

[@G-ra-ha-m]

@@chrisbarron5861 Yes, you don't really need someone else, and anyway it's not very 'green'. Just do the same route and prove how the EV wins. Should be easy, right?

[@chrisbarron5861]

@@G-ra-ha-m 425 miles in under two and a half minutes. EV doesn't even compare kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2LUaoSPpNCaaZI

[@malky5016]

I'm sure if you reach out to Geoff and The MacMaster they would be more than happy for you to accompany them on one of the journey's... But, you need to understand EV's simply don't work for everyone where petrol and diesel do!

[@Brian-om2hh]

But they only work for now.... One day there will be no petrol to be had. Indeed, if you'd seen Shell's last business report, you'd have seen details of their outline plans to cut the production of petrol and diesel by up to 40% on the lead up to 2030. In fact Shell were one of the organisations who lobbied the Government to bring *forward* the original 2035 ICE ban to 2030. The National Grid were another......

[@malky5016]

@@Brian-om2hh This may be the case, however, personally I think the push to net zero and EV's will be eased significantly as more people see through the deceit... Co2 is not the planet's enemy in fact it's the life blood of the planet, of course we need to manage and control our impact on the planet, but you can't double the population in 50 years or so and have zero impact! Petrol and diesel will be around for many years to come, there is still a load of untapped oil reserves to take advantage of.

[@chrisdunbar3400]

As we are living in the present , ill take what works today@@Brian-om2hh

[@KKandEV]

It’s not worth proving ANYTHING to them as their views are not even taken seriously by most EV owners.

[@Markcain268]

What i can't understand is why ev guys get so upset when someone says something negative about evs, i could understand if you sold the things or if you built one yourself, but come on guys it's just a product, if i buy something i like i really don't give a damn what anyone says about it, I'm happy with it so why should someone elses opinion bother me? I think its all rather strange behaviour from adults(?) and it makes me suspicious that something isn't quite right, so videos like this actually make me want an ev even less!

[@grantphilip37]

electric cars are a complete false economy imho!! quicker the people that make them admit it the better and we can move on. Who can be bothered hanging about every few 100 hundred miles constantly and strategically plot your route everywhere you go .Not for me and never will be!!!

[@MrBoddwin]

Horsey people probably said very similar things about the motorcar when it first came on the scene. Some people just don't like change.

[@poxcr]

I’ve never had to strategically plan my route more than I did with my ICE vehicles. On long trips I used to hang about every so often anyway for a toilet break, a coffee, lunch, etc. Just do that at a charger station and boom, you’re ready to go. Most of the time I just charge at home anyway, which means my car is always ready to go and the range is long enough for 99% of my tips. I reduced my running costs by 80% and never ever have to think about tuneups, oil changes, etc.

[@grantphilip37]

I dont like change for the worse!@@MrBoddwin

[@grantphilip37]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpCbnn5orLOnaK8si=2saIv3gFLuEh4h4f

[@TB-up4xi]

No planning required - I do a 1200 mile round trip Sydney-Melbourne-Sydney, it's both faster and less expensive in my EV than previous ICE cars, I stop at the same 2 stops as I did in my ICE cars (late breakfast & early dinner) each direction, rocking up and plugging in is far quicker than refuelling, waiting in line to pay, returning to the car, moving the car to a parking spot then going in for a rest break, by the time I'm done I have more than enough charge to continue. Anywhere else I just plug the destination into my sat nav, my Tesla not only tells me where to stop and for how long, it also gathers all the information from all the other Teslas on my route, their state of charge, where they are routed to, how long they are expected to charge for and constantly recalculates wether the chargers will be empty or full when I arrive and if there will be a wait time and replans the route to a different charger if it ends up being faster.

[@richardyardley5127]

I think I'll stick with my mint £3k MG TF sports car and not have to download apps to stop me panicking over where to charge my car. I'll just take a five minute stop at a petrol station and be on my way, avoiding the hour or so I'd need to stop to charge up my EV battery, if I can negotiate the use of an available EV charger that is.

[@billhill4479]

It's pretty simple . Offer a challenge over the same route. Both channels can do their own videos so that the audience can decide for themselves who is more accurate or more practical. Take both routes with all vehicles. Lets get the whole story whether it favors the evs or not. From what I've seen , you guys at ECC are pretty pragmatic and honest when it comes to the positives and negatives of evs. It also sounds like there is an opportunity for some people to learn things about charging apps, availability and protocols that they may not have been aware of previously. That's got to be good for everyone I would have thought. Especially someone that owns a Taycan.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Great idea. 👍

[@ForeverNeverwhere1]

Most of these people don't want to learn anything, they want their already entrenched beliefs reinforced by their peers. The range thing gets me, 220 miles! barely adequate for day to day usage without constant recharging, it's the UK, a small island, not Africa or the Australian outback. When I lived in the UK a weekend away I might drive 150 miles in total, and my long daily commute was 20 miles each way. The odd big roadtrip I would need to stop to stretch my legs, have a coffee, and pee every two hours anyway. If I could leave my house with a full tank of electrons, I would only need to charge the car on a roadside charger 5 or 6 times a year.

[@stubones]

A diesel will win every time 😂 any other opinion is utterly delusional. It takes 5 minutes to refuel a range of 600+ miles, while you sit around for up to an hour to get 250 miles of range and then have to repeat. Its time to wake to reality.

[@scottsherrington7294]

​@@ElectricClassicCarsWell... Lee has made the offer, proove him wrong, show us how great EV distance travel is.

[@djtaylorutube]

​@@stubonesDrive 200 miles every day and re-compare costs and time involved by the owner in terms of their refuelling process. ICE gets utterly spanked. I don't expect to use a public charger until May, last time was end of December. Is this a valid challenge? 99% of motorway journeys are less than 100miles. The average journey is less than 25 miles. Comparing only a single trip is myopic. I could challenge someone driving a Porsche 911 GT3 to a race in my old Volvo estate and win. If the rules include adhering to speed limits, all I have to do is pick a route length that requires just one fuel stop for the thirsty Porsche. Simples!

[@Markcain268]

My nearest charger is a mile away, can't charge at home, mind you, if i took out a loan to buy one I'd have to live in it, so that would solve the charging problem! 😂

[@phibin777]

iv been called a 'petrol-sexual' HAHA please go do a video with geoff and lee i think it would be fun..? they are both pretty open about being happy for someone to join and show them better please take them up on it.

[@Brian-om2hh]

And if someone did, and it looked as though they were going to get shown up for what they are, they would simply move the goal-posts. Just as McMaster did when Modern Heroes hired a Polestar and did the John O Groats to Lands end thing at less cost. McMaster claimed it didn't count, and MH had *lost* the challenge because he hired the Polestar! *His* Porsche is *leased* And his bearded pal *bought* a diesel BMW specially for the trip! You decide..... These 2 would argue up was down, and down was up if it fitted their narrative.....

[@phibin777]

a little unfair i think? the challenge was null two fold.. 1 he hire a car but already owned one?? and didnt use his daily! 2 he might of beat the taycant, just, but still got owned by a diesel.. Also the point of buying a car on the day to use is to show even a 20yo bmw bought at random is better lol . Why dont we have some people putting some money where mouths are? surely you want that? so you can show them up?? i really hope he takes them up on their offer!!! he has his own channel im sure we will see all sides then? @@Brian-om2hh

[@jonevansauthor]

@@Brian-om2hh yup. It'd be like Neil de Grasse Tyson debating a flat earther as if there was any level on which they might have had a point. Of course McMaster wants to challenge people, he is paying for his lifestyle with his KZbin channel, and YT doesn't care if you are right, outright lying, getting positive comments or negative ones. It's all gravy to advertisers and of course, ICE cars get advertised, Tesla really doesn't.

[@jonshadow4052]

​@@Brian-om2hhbut he never used his own car that's the point.

[@billienomates1606]

At the end of the day e.v's are at the least an inconvenience to charge up every few miles to an absolute nightmare. The depreciation drop on e.v's currently is not good. The placement of the battery packs under most cars can easily cause an issue with debri or obstacles on the road that can have considerable repair costs/write offs. The average price of a new e.v is above what many can afford. I myself have never been in the position of having £25k plus to buy a new vehicle or would want to spend that amount of money on one. I would not buy an e.v. that was old due to no warranty and degraded battery. At the current time, in my opinion, the e.v. technology is good for a run about car doing local to medium journeys, but if the volume of e.v's increases the issue of charging away from home will increase. I for one do not need the aggravation and stress of what I have listed above. A good condition used ice vehicle for about £5 to 10 K which I can fill up within minutes and drive 400 to 600 miles suits me down to the ground. As far as the agenda pushing this e.v. revolution well there is not enough capacity on youtube servers to hold my thoughts on that. I appreciate that your video does highlight that there were other chargers etc to be had, but sitting in your cozy room flipping through google earth etc to point out things is a bit lame. I think you needed to be there on that drive and be in the mindset of the driver. Still everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on the matter. The way electric prices are going up in the foreseeable I cannot see everyone replacing their ice cars/vans/trucks for e.v's. Time will tell.

[@ianchalklen1047]

I’m watching this shortly after a reading an article in the Times. Hertz are selling off their fleet of 20,000 electric cars as they are not popular with the public and too expensive to repair. They expect to make a £190 million loss as they replace them with petrol vehicles. How would you address this commercial decision and how bad do you think it will further affect the used EV market.

[@douglasmorris8364]

I own a EV as well as an oil burner here in Wales and I can tell you I would never use an EV for long journeys or use public charging especially observing my winter range. Lee is spot on and someone is lying however it's not Lee. Look to yourself before making accusations about others.

[@ianhamilton3113]

I have a Nissan Leaf 40kWh. It doesn't have battery cooling like all other EV's. So it really isn't designed for long trips. But from Gatwick Airport I have driven to York, Preston, Monmouth, Warwick on various trips. Did the battery get a bit hot? Yep! but it did those trips just fine. And around home it is so cheap to run it's ridiculous.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

As someone who also lives in Wales and has only had EVs for the past 8 years I’ve had no problems with living with them, for long journeys too. I’ll never go back to ICE.

[@douglasmorris8364]

@@ElectricClassicCars Good on yer mate ;)

[@douglasmorris8364]

@@ianhamilton3113 Very happy for you.

[@douglasmorris8364]

@@CantStopTheSignal337 Lee doesn't minimize EV benefits, He says quite clearly that city/town/local driving is perfect for EVs if you can charge at home. That's just a plain fact and is why I won't use my EV for long trips. So his own experience and your own experience translates to you as 'lee sometimes lies'. SMH!

[@rainersta7073]

I'm EV Owner (new BMW I3 120 AH) since mid of 2022 in Germany. Was very happy with the car until the energy prices rose 30 to 50%. At home as well. While gas price decreased 30%. This means that EV's did loose 70% of their competitiveness. When it was cheap in 2022 i could easily say yes to more charging stops and more planning and thrill, if everything will work next charging station. But now, with this high charging prices, I think that the minimum savings (if at all) don't anymore make sense to deal with the real negative points of EV's. There is no more enough compensation. 100 miles EV charge prices must be 50% to ICE in my thinking. Because higher buying price of EV's , more trouble to sell and more loss in 3 years , daily negative points, higher risc of battery death, bad winter action.... Actually i would not recommand to buy an EV. It's just too little benefit. It feels like we were victims of kind of betrayal with this EV Hype. The minute, we entered, they rose electricity prices. Still love the car itself very much.❤

[@HisDudeness2023]

In the US EVs pay no road use tax. That is changing. Tax will be higher due to EV additional weight. UK no VAT on charging. That will change. Not competitive.

[@RoadcraftNottingham]

It looks like you may both be suffering from a little confirmation bias. If he knew where those chargers were, why didnt he mention this and the downsides of using them? Fair point. I try my best when doing any review, to see it from both sides. My biggest issue against buying electric is the reliability and depreciation. I ride an electric bike, a Zero SRS, which is on its 3rd main battery amongst many other issues. I've seen broken chargers and busy ones so see where he's coming from. You certainly need to plan and not be in a rush if doing distances with an EV. Anyway, have a good day.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Zero SRS, great bike, my Dad has one and loves it. He’ll never go back to petrol now. 👍

[@RoadcraftNottingham]

@ElectricClassicCars It is an amazing bike. I'm very lucky to have 12 bikes to play on though and love them all. The SRS is certainly special, just wish I'd not lost faith in its reliability. I'll be doing an honest owner's long-term review, so feel free to sub and show yer dad. Cheers.

[@oneeyedgirl617]

Yes, and if own an EV, you spot lots of things that don't make sense. For instance, he has a home charger, but doesn't mention it, how much it costs to charge. Or how cheap rate home electricity can push down the average price per Kw. Do you think he keeps it hidden for a reason?

[@RoadcraftNottingham]

@oneeyedgirl617 Yes, it's very rare I charge away from home as nearly all of my rides are within 120 miles. Plug it in at home more cheaply and wake up to a full charge.

[@oneeyedgirl617]

@@RoadcraftNottingham yep, an I’ve no doubt he does the same. I charge to 80% because I rarely need 100%.

[@bty2550]

Here’s a question. Lee was convinced enough about Ev‘s to shell out well over 100k on his car. What has changed his mind? He could’ve bought any number of very nice ICE cars for the same money. So I would put it to you that he was definitely not anti Ev. Something changed his mind. What could have done that other than a poor experience of ownership? As he has said many times, it’s not the car; he loves the way his car drives, it’s the infrastructure he takes issue with. Which way you cut it, it’s an indisputable fact that recharging takes longer than filling the tank. Maybe one day technology will shift the balance, but that day isn’t here yet.

[@simonw8626]

Prove him wrong its easy aint it both put your money where you mouth is

[@Brian-om2hh]

The other fella would win that hands down. He's got room for £10k in his......

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve offered Geoff a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Hopefully it’ll happen. 👍

[@DavidPeacock1972]

@@ElectricClassicCars You keep mentioning Geoff, But you are silent on the MacMaster, Why is that?

[@davidsworld5837]

he not going to. he just did video may be you should see it @@ElectricClassicCars

[@joejones3434]

@@DavidPeacock1972 Because it;s clear the MacMaster has an agenda and no amount of reasoning with him will do any good. It's like asking The Daily Mail to post truthful stories - it's just not going to happen. Engaging with him in any way other than to debunk his lies is the only really useful thing to be done. Feeding his channel clicks is just exacerbating the problem. You can't reason with someone who is going to lie so blatantly to push his agenda.

[@walterfillingham]

How about a real challenge, all three of you. You in your EV, The MacMaster in his EV, Geoff in his diesel, all doing the NC500 from Inverness Castle all the way back round back to Inverness Castle..

[@terryglover3215]

Lee's challenged you to a ride-along so you can tell him how it's done properly.

[@willowvc1910]

Exactly x let's see!!

[@farnthboy]

It's the old saying - when the clutch drops the bs stops - except in this case there's no clutch.

[@DaveJudd]

Terry can you help him recover the £80k he's lost on it?

[@jonshadow4052]

​@@musicoftheforestif you watch one of his videos it shows how much the car is worth if he part exchange it.

[@DaveJudd]

@@musicoftheforest Last year Porsche offered him 50k, he paid over 120k, He said he still owes 80k on it. and its a year older now.

[@Lookup2Wakeup]

So take up the MacMaster's challenge on a joint video. Show him where he's going wrong ....😂

[@chapmandu2]

You missed the bit later on in the journey where he drove past Hopwood m42 services with 20 odd rapids, Birmingham nec with 30 odd and went to Tamworth services with 2 old grid serves. Couldn’t get a charge there so rather than use the Tamworth bp pulse a mile away went to a nearby instavolt and had to queue… then charged to 100%. In fairness what his is showing is that if you drive an ev like you would an ice car it doesn’t work very well, ie charge to 100% then when it’s nearly empty find a charger and charge to 100% again. We do need to ensure it’s easy for people to use their ev in the most effective way…

[@djtaylorutube]

The most recent video is similar. Charges to 99% and took 34kWh in 34 mins. That makes the start point of the charge about 52%. I had a bit of a study of the Taycan charge curve, the same power could have been added in about 9 mins had the charge started at a lower SoC. Pushing it towards 100% is always going to demonstrate slow times, we know this but that's the presented narrative. Doesn't bother me, it's not how I do it and that's all that matters to me.

[@douglasaitken3203]

Think you might want to drop the anti EV discription ' Lee has never said that he is anti EV do your reserch 😅 to Lee

[@DanRobards]

Macmaster is a bit thick so it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't know the difference in charge times between 80-100%

[@paulgibson490]

You have got to assume the chargers work and are free at any particular time.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

No need to assume. The satnav in cars like that Taycan tell you.

[@derekga6973]

You won’t get all the information accurately all the time that’s bullshlt, Reduced power, others pulling up to the charger just before you arrive would all hold you up for an hour f you’ve to wait for that person to finish charging then your charge time on top of that, or the reduced power output adds on time to any giving trip so your argument is irrelevant

[@skinnersbollox]

From his experiences with the charging network that I saw, and the associated stress (which did seem genuine), I would never consider an EV for longer journeys. If you're able to charge at home overnight and your journeys are under 200 miles then an EV might make sense.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The satnav in the Taycan tells you which chargers are available, which are in use, which aren’t working etc. So if you wanted to film problems it’s easy to find them.

[@fredjames9867]

But then a 1.2 clio for 800 quid will do the same .the whole argument is a joke . Just to justify something you created for yourself

[@oneeyedgirl617]

Do you think he he had PTSD going from London to the midlands. Or suffered a severe mental breakdown and couldn’t finish a journey. Do you believe he nearly froze to death in his Taycan. Or he was close buying a £40k battery. Or he was locked in it and had to be rescued. Or that he is going to suffer severe depreciation, when it is leased or on a PCP. He is either the worlds biggest snowflake, the UK’s unluckiest EV owner, or maybe he makes shit up for clicks. I know where I am placing my bet.

[@joejones3434]

But that's the point - it wasn't genuine. He is lying to people to make a deliberately false video to make EVs look bad to put people off buying one. His experiences are entirely fabricated.

[@maxtorque2277]

@@fredjames9867 er it won't do the same though will it. An old clio is a piece of crap, is can't pull the skin off a rice pudding, has the crash safety of a paper bag, belches massive amounts of pollutants out the back, it's interior is shit (and by now has mostly fallen apart) it's noisy, uncomfortable, rattly, catastrophically slow, and tiny inside. Sorry but a lot of people want, and can easily afford, a much much better car than some old clapped out banger. If you want to drive such a shed, go ahead, but don't for one minute think that everyone does......

[@hornslane]

SIXTEEN chargers in the car park!!, how many were working??

[@ElectricClassicCars]

All of them

[@martynware9903]

but if you fill up with diesel that will give you enough fuel for the whole journey with fuel to spare so you wont be needing to fill up again

[@ElectricClassicCars]

If you charged fully up you also could have done the Nth to Sth Wales trip in one but driving for 4 1/2 hours without a break is not a good idea.

[@SteHughes90]

4:30 "even in my village there are... 4 chargers". 4 chargers for an entire village with every car needing 30+ minutes... That to me sounds rather annoying.

[@DonnyRP]

Nothing better to do that pick at other people’s videos? I fit EV chargers for a living and there’s no way I’d change over to an EV. Waste of time.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve never been one for keeping quiet when I see/hear people openly lying about a subject I am familiar with.

[@rickyboy591]

When you can pull into a charger ( and it’s either not occupied or not working) and I can charge up in the same time as fuelling up ‘ and not ripped off by Instavolt’s insane rates then I might consider one .

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The Taycan satnav shows you which chargers are available, in use and costs. You can decide to use expensive ones and ones that are busy, or not, it’s up to the driver.

[@rickyboy591]

@@ElectricClassicCars so you got to deviate from your trip depending on which chargers are working or in use or which is the cheapest.

[@DwaynePipes]

​@@rickyboy591you don't have to. Just like you don't have to pay extortionate fuel costs at motorway services!

[@rickyboy591]

@@DwaynePipes enjoy your overpriced milk float’ sorry not for me . That’s why nobody wants the second hand ones hence the brutal depreciation

[@DwaynePipes]

@@rickyboy591 sorry but you must have me mixed up with someone else? Enjoy your overpriced milk float! What's that supposed to mean?

[@LoremIpsum1970]

Why don't you just do the trip yourself and film it rather than give an armchair debunk of it? I'll wait for the video 😉 Petrol stations? If you have a car with 500+ miles of range on a full tank distance isn't really an issue, is it?

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve offered to do a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Ready and waiting. 👍

[@LoremIpsum1970]

@@ElectricClassicCars I don't think being on the ground is in the spirit of things as you'd have the advantage, it should be a starting point in Wales or England and a destination picked from a hat on the day of the 'race' by someone independent, and with comparable kW EVs....

[@stevenwileman2443]

Do a challenge, you seem to “qualify your facts” also. Detail the car park restrictions where those charges are genie point I think. Then you talk about 80%, why pay money for a vehicle you can only use 80% of? We should be moving forward with Technology, not moving backwards. This is not effective, do you charge your phone to only 80%? Probably not.

[@Sion_Jones]

Lee has realised that having problems with the day to day running of his own EV creates content that people watch, thus making him money. Here we have someone who's livelihood depends on making and selling EV's. EV misinformation? Busted? Who to believe? I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but non biased video's don't get the same clicks to promote your company and earn YT revenue..

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The difference is I don’t care what car people drive, petrol, diesel or EV. It’s just nowadays I prefer EVs. Let people make their own informed decisions based on facts not misinformation. 👍

[@joejones3434]

In this case Moggie is calling out specific lies that are easy to prove. There's no bias there, just objective facts. EV drivers are the loudest voices on needing to improve the public infrastructure, there's no need for deliberate misinformation like MacMaster's channel.

[@denis9450]

I watched a video the other day from Canada two people had problems with there battery I only know what happened to one she drove over something and damaged the underside of the car looking at the pictures it did not look bad the car was an Hyundi Ioniq 5 I believe it needed a new battery and was written off by the insurance company because Hyundi Dealer quoted 61,500 Canadian dollars to change the battery (about £38,000) Hyundi said this did not happen but the guy showed the quote.

[@elbuggo]

No wonder if insurance for everybody will increase - not just for them!

[@nigelheath7048]

I'm not anti EV I'm anti people being forced into buying them. Just let the market decide on a level playing field. No subsidise, no tax breaks, no manufacturers being forced to sell a minimum percentage of ev's or being financially punished If they don't. And as someone who usually drives an older car how can it be better for the environment to scrap my 15 year old CRV diesel that gets around 45mpg and will probably keep going for at least 10 more years so apart from emissions isn't contributing to harming the environment rather than buying a brand new ev and all the pollution caused in it's production.

[@redmile999]

Well said

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Totally agree with the whole let the market decide thing, as people naturally want to rebel on something as soon as the government force it upon people. I’d still choose EV as it’s just a better technology.

[@nicholasmurrell7904]

Thank you for debunking The MacMiser's dull videos. I've driven my Enyaq to Haverfordwest and I can attest that Wales is replete with EV chargers. He wants to paint EVs as impossible to own conveniently. I have trolled him in his comments section a couple of times. He is running a car he couldn't possibly afford. He only spreads fear, uncertainty and doubt, and as such brings nothing of value to the world. Most people (men, let's face it!) who look at 'Electric Classic Cars' would LOVE to have one!

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Thanks for watching!

[@w9awx1]

His response to a viewer was the chargers were "restricted"?

[@ElectricClassicCars]

They’re not. More lies.

[@rainersta7073]

He said kind of "Just for one hour .... you have to leave and enter again...." That was to uncomfortable

[@ElectricClassicCars]

@@rainersta7073That’s not true. I’ve used the rapid charger and the slow ones there many many times, including leaving it there to charge up overnight with no problem.

[@rainersta7073]

@@ElectricClassicCars Okay. Maybe new rules🤔. As I remember (?) what McMaster said the hotel reception mentioned that.

[@joejones3434]

@@rainersta7073 No, the rules haven't changed, MacMaster is lying.

[@matthewjenkins1161]

Folk have tried to debunk the Geoff vs Lee experiences and just proved EVs take longer and cost more on long roadtrips. All well and good picking at details, but it doesn't alter those fundamental facts.

[@aedwards4496]

This channel has a financial interest in promoting and extolling the virtues of EV"s it appears that you do a fantastic job of it and good for you. Though it's aimed at people who have enough money and can afford to pay to convert their ICE motor to electric, so good for them too. Maserati? E Type Jag, Aston Martin, Porshe 356B, Delorean, are not your everyday motors but abankster niche market for a sunday afternoon jolly. Effectively toys.Though I'm sure someone will inform me that they use their little shopper EV to do 3 miles a day and charge cheaply at home. They're unlikely to be taken on a trip from John O'Groats to Lands End or commuted daily Surely you'd admit it's a niche market producing a couple of dozen fantastically converted vehicles. Macmaster's doesn't, his business is computer oriented he's just putting forward his experiences of driving his factory EV. Not sure why you "loved" a comment from a subscriber of your's who in his own words went "shitty" with MacMaster. The free market is best suited to decide what's best, not the government's edicts, subsidies et al

[@rocklover7437]

The first EV,s at the turn of the 1900,s was aimed at the well heeled Woman's market as town cars only .Nothings changed they are future 15min city cars .They will reduce battery pack size when petrol and diesel cars are gone . Big brother stuff i hear you laughing at .Go over to Greggs Aircraft and Cars channel and look for the review on his 2024 Mustang .The thumbnail has the words Orwell .

[@ForeverNeverwhere1]

​@@themarcopolo2024converting ice cars to EVs isn't a declining niche business, there are dozens of new companies appearing every year doing it, and everyone has full order books.

[@Jonny_The_Organism]

@@ForeverNeverwhere1it's the new gravy train...but when you realise you've been sold a lie...oxo

[@Markcain268]

@@ForeverNeverwhere1 businesses very rarely let on when they aren't doing so well, it's bad for business, so I'll take what you say with a large pinch of salt!

[@paulphillipson2378]

You should do a collaboration with them both on their next challenge, show him how it's done eh?

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve offered Geoff a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Hopefully it’ll happen. 👍

[@DavidPeacock1972]

@@ElectricClassicCars You keep mentioning Geoff, But you are silent on the MacMaster, Why is that? 👍

[@thomo1888]

@@DavidPeacock1972 Because the macmaster is a fud 👍 (And I say this as someone who doesn't give a flying off about cars/ EVs)

[@DavidPeacock1972]

@@thomo1888 So if you think this, why do you spend the time mentioning he is a fud. I would forget about it and not even let it enter my mind, let alone virtue signal your fake outrage. I would just unsubscribe personally, problem solved.

[@danmeek6316]

Food for thought: I don't have to use an ap to show me where petrol is, ever. I don't have to worry about long distance driving (especially in cold weather), I don't have to plan my trips out to make sure I hit the chargers but more importantly, waiting for hours for the charge (and it's expensive now). I never worry about my car burring my house down in the middle of the night. All this is accomplished with NO hassle with ICE vehicles. I like EVs. I think they have a use, but not for everyone all the time. Besides, I can show you many examples where EVs are HORRIBLE for the environment. (worse in some ways than ICE vehicles) ??? How nice to fill our landfills with all those wonderful lithium batts in them. The added benefit? If they catch fire in the dumps, they'll burn toxic crap for decades. No thanks. I'll keep my ICE vehicle. (RAM Hemi big 8 cylinder).

[@richardbartlett6932]

That's because you're using a mature network. Once petrol stations start closing you'll be having range anxiety like they did when you could only buy petrol in chemists The stone age never ended because we ran out of rocks

[@danmeek6316]

@@richardbartlett6932 not going to happen in mine or your lifetime bud. (Lack of petrol stations). Simply a fact.

[@TB-up4xi]

Please provide the evidence of the battery dumps.

[@danmeek6316]

@@TB-up4xi Do you need proof where ICE cars go after their done? Where do you think all those lithium batteries are going to end up? In a dump somewhere of some kind. Unless you know something I don't about battery longevity. Do share.

[@danmeek6316]

@@garysmith5025 Good deal. I'm happy there's folks out there who get good battery life. Don't know the climate you live in, but here in the Northern states in US, Battery cars don't even get 30% capacity due to the extremes in cold. Last checked, (I have a 10KW solar array with a Battery bank) and where I live in Central US and when it's cold I can see a MARKED decrease in storage capacity due to cold. My RAM is a 2015, with 90k on it with another 200k to go. Runs like a champ and I never have to worry about where to get fuel or it burring up mine or others properties. So no warranty but it's paid for and well maintained. Also, If I have to replace the engine (for whatever reason) It's about $4k to replace. Batteries I'm finding for EVs can be well over $25k. Besides, when it's cold, I don't lose range due to limited capacity, But like I said, I'm not opposed to them, (EVs) I just don't see the benefit after all the independent research I did for the major unwanted PUSH, the world leaders have "decided" is "best" for us peons. No thank you. I'll Keep my RAM.

[@bushmagpie3312]

EV aren’t for every part of world, one downside of EV is towing range and capacity. They’re not great for holidays if you load them and want to travel great distance. Our ICE vehicle has range of 1000km normal and 600km towing 3ton from factory no modifications. We live in Australia and some refuel stations are 450km (300miles) apart. These 2 factors have discarded EV’s from our family. Charging in remote Australia isn’t practical as you need to bring your own charger. The cost of EV is also double price of same ICE vehicle.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Towing is definitely a pain in the ass with an EV. I do it regularly and have to decouple the trailer to charge up. That will have to change. 👍

[@billhill4479]

Ah. The old " I want to tow 3 tonnes every weekend in the outback argument ". I also live in Australia and I also own a diesel 4wd for towing. However, like many , many Australians, I own a second car which is electric. The one that gets driven most of the time while the 4wd is parked. The car that is charged mostly from my home solar for around 6 cents per kwh. In Australia, over 7 million people commute daily by car over a distance of less than 60kms according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics. How many people tow 3 tonnes every day in comparison ? I agree that evs aren't the perfect vehicle for every situation in every country. However, in countries where most people live in cities with plenty of charging options and commute small distances, evs are ideal. Btw. The double price thing is no longer accurate. E.g. The MG EV. I also note you didn't mention operating costs when you are talking about pricing. Best you check your information before posting again.

[@bushmagpie3312]

@@ElectricClassicCars there is a simple explanation, if you look at BTU or joules of energy in LTR of diesel to KW of electricity you can see diesel has 10x energy density. Even with efficiency taken into count the diesel has 4x energy density of electricity. Once they get 1:1 they will be worth getting and cheaper.

[@bushmagpie3312]

@@billhill4479 As a trady we tow trailer during week 2T and caravan every month. EV not practical for work.

[@billhill4479]

And that's fair enough. I don't have a problem with that. As I said previously, evs aren't suited to every job. That's why l own both types. However, you are in a minority when compared to the millions of Australians in cities that travel 50kms a day for which an ev is perfectly suited..@@bushmagpie3312

[@Dazrsr66]

I owned an ev for a year i sold it because each time i went to a motorway service station to charge it all the charges were not working. Im back in a petrol car and extremely happy knowing i can go anywhere and have no problems with distance

[@johnmason5626]

Why did you go to broken chargers? Zap-map tells you which ones are broken, makes no sense to me. I always go to chargers that it shows to me working. Not rocket science.

[@andys5841]

Thanks for the made up anecdote.

[@Dazrsr66]

@johnmason5626 because when travelling along a motorway you just go in thinking have a coffee while you put a bit of charge in the car. It's not rocket science it's just expecting a charger to charge the vehicle. I never have that problem now, I go to any motorway service station and they always have petrol

[@prdiffey]

Same happened to me last night - not photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPNGRODce6fhAqorxAIn5NY0CNy4S5fao5k0X1B

[@paulmorley9910]

Some of these comments make me laugh, did you not check this app on your phone before deciding whether you needed a toilet break, so you could then decide whether you can stop or just carry on in your wet seat, to see whether you can find a charger that's free, and works, and doesn't have stipulations on charging time. It's not rocket science. 😆

[@56Gumball]

Electric chargers are 24/7...providing they're actually working. Also, why don't the majority of charging stations have a canopy to protect users from wet weather (especially in Wales!) as petrol stations do? 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Brian-om2hh]

I don't find the weather to be an issue. If it's raining or cold, I just get back in the car once I've plugged it in.

[@56Gumball]

@@Brian-om2hh Fair comment 👍🏼, but I still wonder why the stations aren't covered. It's not like you can literally plug in and jump back in your car. You have to activate the station, wait for it to connect to your car and bank, and then accept your payment. All this takes time and depending on the weather you could be like a drowned rat within 30 seconds.

[@barryj388]

Proof is in the pudding and talk is cheap. Show us how it's done.

[@SDK2006b]

Taking the direct route to a destination, in a race situation, doesn't seem that difficult !

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve offered Geoff a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Hopefully it’ll happen. 👍

[@DavidPeacock1972]

@@ElectricClassicCars You keep mentioning Geoff, But you are silent on the MacMaster, Why is that? 👍

[@barryj388]

@@SDK2006b Talking the most direct route and optimum way he should have done it seems even less difficult!

[@GeoffBuysCars]

hmmm.... interesting video, and more interesting comments. i don't really want to get involved, i feel like you make novelty toys for rich people, and you're missing the whole anti-car agenda that goes along with the EV push. i've also got a fair bit of experience with an electric classic car which is perhaps a story that you don't want told.

[@craighuddy5351]

Translation I have no excuse for the obvious mistakes made in the making of said vlogs. But I can do personal attacks… stay classy Geoff

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Well, not really, because it's Lee that's allegedly making the mistakes. I just choose a car and drive from A to B. However when i'm sent a video, and many of the comments are derogatory, i'll get involved. If people start accusing us of things, then it'll get interesting. @@craighuddy5351

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Also where's the personal attack...? Electric Classic Cars = novelty toys for rich people. Are they anything else...?@@craighuddy5351

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’m not really into ‘anti-car’ conspiracy theories but if you’re up for a real North to South Wales EV vs Diesel race and turn your words into action, I’m up for it. 😉👍

[@logitech4873]

@@GeoffBuysCars Why did you not use the chargers right next to the hotel? Why did you inflate your travel times by picking a strange route and by charging to 100%? Surely the Taycan can calculate routes for you, and even tells you that charging beyond 80% is slower, right?

[@scottclark7083]

Lee ( the macmaster is spot on with his videos) electric cars are hopeless. My friends are part exchanging their electric car to me tomorrow after 5 years of ownership, they've simply had enough, especially if they need to go any distance such as down to England ( they live in Scotland ) half the chargers don't work. This is the fact they tell me as EV owners , they simply are fed up. My colleagues drive them as company cars and so would I if I went back on the scheme for company car purposes. But honestly none of us would own them for any other reason. Customers on their finance deals can't get out them early as the values have nose dived, go over a speed bump a bit fast and scrape your battery and your car is a write off, no wonder insurance premiums are through the roof. EV at the moment isn't the future until the infrastructure is 100 times better along with the battery range and technology which is absolutely hopeless on them. I'm in the motortrade, that's the facts. Get on his channel and do some collaborations. Be good for both channels👍

[@richardthemoaner]

Simple. Take the Macmasters challenge. I will believe who is more convincing between you both on EV’s

[@PP-im6mb]

The current capacity of the national grid is not sufficient to support an entire switch over to EVs. This is before the current coal/wood/nuclear power plants are decommissioned. The wind had better blow very hard if you think the windmills are going to charge millions of EVs.

[@MrAdopado]

The people who run the National Grid don't agree with you.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Not according to the National Grid.

[@andys5841]

Not even national grid make this claim, most people charge overnight when demand is low, hence prices being far lower at night, there is in fact more than enough capacity.

[@jakethompson5732]

@@ElectricClassicCars You do realise how un environmentally friendly electric cars are to manufacture? They arent the answer to anything, they are just a stop gap until we discover actual environmentally safe ways to run an engine.

[@MrAdopado]

@@jakethompson5732 Every serious analysis that I can find puts EVs way ahead of any current or imminent ICE technology in terms of environmental "friendliness". Suggest an alternative if you have one.

[@oneeleven9832]

Theres room for all electric & combustion. Horses for courses..people should have a choice though not be forced into one or the other.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Very true. Let the people decide what they want, based on informed decisions based on facts. 👍

[@jimsouthlondon7061]

Richard I’m a proud EVanagalis and I ❤you and I ❤McMaster you all bring KZbin alive forget broadcast TV . Please please keep it real keep it entertaining debate yes keep it civil don’t let it get nasty and spoil it . Thanks bless all the KZbinrs .👍

[@angusmacmillan5365]

EVs speak for themselves by their depreciation. I will will be sticking to my diesel.

[@weaselbread]

Then don't buy new.... Pretty simple

[@jsouto77]

​@@themarcopolo2024 If some people even tried to keep u with the Jones's they would have a better standard of living... Using the inheritance was much better than getting into debt and living off the overdraft. Live and let live my friend :)

[@jsouto77]

@@themarcopolo2024 I dont know why you felt the need to explain yourself 🤷🏼‍♂

[@angusmacmillan5365]

@@weaselbread Exactly! And that's why EV sales are collapsing.

[@silvermovermedia9737]

Ummm, you can’t charge up,to 100%? Is not a winning argument, it’s the problem lol😅

[@HarryDeano]

Exactly why does it take longer for the last 20%??

[@Concorde-AXDN]

Electric cars and the charging infrastructure is not fit for purpose. Iam disabled and live in private ground floor apartment. I would not be able to charge at home. As for charging away from home I would not be able to handle the cable. How would I manage in my wheelchair. At a petrol station I have no problems.

[@chrisbarron5861]

I know EV drivers claim that short range isnt an issue, but where it is a problem for me and my wife is on our trips to formula 1 races in Belgium and Netherlands. When you have 2 or more drivers sharing the driving then range is a massive factor. My current diesel has over 800 mile range, we share the driving in 2 hour shifts, and can reach Spa Francorchamps in Belgium without a refuel, from Edinburgh. We do the toilet when we swap drivers, so 5 minutes every 2 hours. A trip like that would anger me if I had to stop every few hours for 40 minutes buying some of the most expensive electricity in Europe

[@XenonJohnD]

Most people drive

[@chrisbarron5861]

@@XenonJohnD as long as you dont get a BYD ! Just released was a report showing they have the worst reliability of them all !

[@chrisbarron5861]

@@XenonJohnD So whats the payback period in terms of emissions saved ? 50 years ?

[@javelinXH992]

@@chrisbarron5861 Depending on how the electricity is produced and the size of your battery it is typically between 20,000 and 50,000 miles. Therefore an average EV can pay back its footprint in a few years. Months in some cases.

[@chrisbarron5861]

@@javelinXH992 ​@javelinXH992 i doubt that. EV makers have said that EVs produce 70% more manufacturing emissions than ICE, and I know that manufacturing emissions from ICE are around 80,000 miles equivalent, so, emissions to make an EV is equivalent to about 140,000 ICE miles

[@petewarby7158]

Thanks for taking the time to "out" this kind of nonsense.

[@kickstart131]

As a dedicated ICE owner the most interesting thing I have observed amongst the EV community is the cannibalisation & disdain projected within the EV owner community with differing views amongst themselves. This is a new dynamic of self destruction - there is a common goal presumably but not just the opinions differ the takedowns are now a normal thing. You do you - he does him - I do me - live & let live - it's all personal experience & opinion ... ?? Nobody should be telling anybody else what to do, what to think or how to live because we all have different circumstances ... surely ?

[@user-ly9pf8dk1d]

That's if the chargers are working not vandalised or not being used

[@ceismulcastle]

As others have said, there is only one way to settle who is talking the most rubbish, go on a challenge with them, my guess is a diesel would wipe the floor with any ev you can put forward as has been shown in all ev diesel challenges so far worldwide by several different you tubers. Incidentally "This episode is a little different than most", things are not different than or to they are different "from".

[@djtaylorutube]

Agreed, if the sole purpose of the so called challenge is to drive a particular trip which includes refuelling and driving non stop and answering to speed limits. There are plenty of scenarios where the trip can be shown to be very similar or where the EV wins every day. It just depends on the narrative. 😉 My old Volvo 850 can beat a Porsche 911 GT3 using the same "rules". All I need is a trip that just exceeds the Porsche single tank range. Done.

[@rocklover7437]

A LPG at 67p a Ltr or CNG at 42p a Ltr might even be better than a diesel .I run a 79 Cadillac Coupe Deville 8lr on LPG running it on petrol with Holley EFI conversation and gear vendor overdrive on the auto box i get mid 20 mpg .On LPG i get about the same but at half price it's equivalent to running 50 mpg .

[@djtaylorutube]

@@rocklover7437 Yes that's about the same for me. I can drive my diesel for about 50 mpg (bit more on a long run) or the Volvo gets about 28 mpg on petrol or 26 mpg on LPG but...given that LPG just under half price, it's around a smidge over 52 mpg equivalent spend for petrol. Plus on my "Porsche challenge" here, I could use both the petrol and LPG tanks giving me a range of 650 miles, the Porsche would stand no chance at all clearly proving that a 30 year old Volvo that can carry 100kg on the roof and a 3m kitchen worktop inside the car is better than a Porsche.🤪

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve offered Geoff a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Hopefully it’ll happen. 👍

[@oneeyedgirl617]

Don't you get it? Everyone knows that EVs have limitations. Especially EV owners. He recreates nonsense for his target audience, knowing he will trigger the EV owners.

[@davros517]

Silly question, what happens if all available chargers are being used for overnight charging and are left unattended so blocking their use for others

[@Hitstirrer]

If the destination charger is actively charging someone's car how can that be said to be blocking others? It's in use - and is perfectly entitled to stay charging there even if someone else does show up hoping to find an unused charger. This is an argument over the number of chargers really. A valid argument of course - but a different issue.

[@davros517]

I meant to say when the cars where " Fully charged " and left plugged in overnight , so blocking their use for others @@Hitstirrer

[@Hitstirrer]

@@davros517 It’s generally accepted that hotel low powered chargers can be occupied overnight. No EV driver would expect to arrive at 3am and for a guest to get out of bed to allow a potential new arrival to plug in. A destination charger is there for people to use during their stay. But obviously common courtesy is used and they will normally move as soon as convenient. Just as they would expect others to move to free up such a resource.

[@johnbruce9698]

Use a ICE car and you could have done the same route there and back without refuelling!

[@shaunkeasey3674]

So I wake up to a vid from MacMaster who has had to delete loads of abusive comments following this video. How about less of talking the talk and more walking the walk. Do a challenge with him.

[@rickyboy591]

If you’re that much in a disagreement with the macmaster then why don’t you meet up with him and make a video together’ then you can both puts your points of view.

[@chewitt3654]

I love and watch the MacMaster and Geoff buys cars, i agree with them and do not think EV’s are the future and i never will no matter what anyone says, why would i want to wait 30mins to an hour every time i stop on a long journey, when i bought my new car they tried to sell me an EV (not a chance) so i got a 310ps Cupra, this is my opinion and i know your viewers will not agree with me and that is their right but i and other like minded people will never believe EV’s are the future, The MacMaster has said that EV owners can come along with him and tell him what he is doing wrong so why not take him up on his challenge ?

[@Koulis_]

I had this channel recommended to me on my KZbin listings and thought the thumb nail looked sensationalist and passed it over. If he owns a Taycan why is he so anti EV? Well people like this use click bait to make money by talking rubbish and telling porkies.

[@deanj846]

Electric cars are as old if not older than ICE,why didn't they catch on? Because of the inconvenience...the same reason Doble steam cars died out.. It's horses for courses and for most ICE is still the best option...you can be petty and call out Macmaster,he can be petty and call you out but little gets actually proved...do a grudge match together...do a long journey in similar Electric vs petrol/diesel cars....see what happens,start at 1/4 full charge/tank....

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’ve offered Geoff a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Hopefully it’ll happen. 👍

[@TB-up4xi]

Electric cars died out becuase they used batteries that took 2+ days to charge, and in the early 1900's (outside of major metropolitan areas) electricity was still a novelty or just plainly unavailable. FF to 2024 cars can be recharged in 15-20 min and electricity is far more ubiquitous than petrol or diesel. For someone like me with home charging an EV is now immensely more convenitent that an ICE car.

[@deanj846]

@@TB-up4xi 15 to 20 minutes? Have you got your own reactor? ...Seriously?

[@warnz9701]

It's all a bit of a non-event, fact is that you can fill up in 5 minutes and get anywhere between 600 - 800 miles with a IC engine and you have to have a coffee or lunch while your batteries charge for half the mileage. Most people these days haven't got the time to waste.

[@andys5841]

So you are going to drive 600-800 miles without having a break for the toilet or a coffee, do you have a catheter fitted or something?

[@DwaynePipes]

​@@andys5841Don't forget, ICE cars only ever do top mpg regardless of where and how they are driven! Driving through a city? 80mpg. Driving at 90mph? 80 mpg. Driving at 20mph on the school run? 80mpg. 😂😂😂

[@TB-up4xi]

@@DwaynePipes What are you smoking?

[@DwaynePipes]

@@TB-up4xi Isn't it obvious? Diesel fumes of course!😂

[@KCTalksEV]

@@DwaynePipes You had me there in the first half

[@user-qb8pm3eq6o]

He’s called you out to go on a drive with him, what’s your answer?

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I’m talking to Geoff to do a rematch of the Nth to Sth Wales race. Hopefully it’ll happen. 👍

[@oldbag3043]

Them EVs burn quite well and take everything else with it thats close as we have learned

[@axeman3d]

I got my first electric car a month ago, a brand new Smart #1. Very quick, very quiet, loaded with tech, charges quickly and looks like a potato. I'm not sure I'd want to take on a cross country journey but the range of the Smart means I can commute as normal and only charge every 10-14 days. Loving it. As more chargers go in it can only get better. You really notice the EV hate on KZbin now.

[@bytemark6508]

I would like to volunteer for that, if you need a person to step up to this challenge. And to be honest, Taycan is not my favorite EV, but as I said, I will take one for the team.

[@PaulTC777]

The only problems I see or doubts I have about EVs: 1. Repair times 2. Repair costs 3. Insurance costs 4. Resale Value

[@bytemark6508]

@@PaulTC777 I know what you mean, but if the car is new and there is an issue from the manufacturer, the cost of the repair should be zero. I live in Canada, my insurance is a little less than $100 (CAD) / month for a Model 3. Resale value? it depends on the car, Tesla are prety good in this case. You should expect to lose about 20% of the value of the car in 3 years or so. Repair time? I don't know if there is an issue really, the only time I needed service, Tesla Mobile Service fixed my car on my driveway (12V battery replacement under warranty). If you mean repairs after an accident, then you might need to pay a deductible, but that is largely depending on your insurance contract. A friend had an accident with her Nissan Altima (model 2007 I believe) and she waited more than 3 months to fix the car, the garage didn't have the parts needed. Unfortunatelly, I heard similar stories about EVs, even Tesla has issues with parts. Maybe a little less these days, but it was tough when they only had the Fremont factory in North America. Still, I believe it's healthy to ask these kind of questions. Quite frankly, I didn't before buying mine, but I was lucky I didn't have to fix anything on the car.

[@Markcain268]

@@themarcopolo2024 is that how much they cost? Wow!

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@PaulTC777 Which EV's have you owned, or have experience of, which have had long or costly repair times? Which EV have you tried to obtain an insurance quote for, and how much searching the insurance market did you do? I've had my Kia eNiro for 3 years now, and the only repair it's had was to a faulty seat belt sensor at 1300 mils, which took around 40 minutes to sort. I have not needed any other repairs, as my car has 4 years of warranty remaining. I just renewed my insurance for this year, which increased by £72 over last year. The resale value is not any concern of mine, as I leased the car, and it goes back at the end of this year.

[@otto.a.2465]

The day after boxing day there was a queue of around 25 EVs waiting for chargers in torrential rain and gale force winds at Tebay services in Cumbria.. A guy in waterproofs trying to marshal them into order. That's the future?

[@josephschmidt6106]

Some people have called them ice-holes. I have also heard some of the "unfair" journalists called FUDruckers (FUD=Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) 😀

[@jonevansauthor]

Ice holes is pretty smooth. Undersells the fact their FUD is killing people but trips off the tongue well.

[@Markcain268]

Oh they get called a lot worse than that! The ev fanboys attack them viciously for being negative about evs, they often gets threats from hysterical fanboys baying for their blood, its totally weird and not how you would expect adults to act at all, there's something very odd going on with this push for evs, very odd indeed, i suppose we'll eventually find out what's driving this hate for non believers.

[@fredjames9867]

Electricity is created by fairy dust ..really is that what you believe

[@kevinpounder]

6 petrol stations probably 6 x 8 pumps equals 48 points compared with 6 charging points 5 minutes to refuel compared with 1 hour at the ev point .

[@user-rf9me7xm1w]

Also, the greater number of E.V’s simultaneously charging at one of these stations, the longer the individual charging time, due to the loading effect. The number of charging points will also limited by the power capability of the local area network. Some charging points are not being connected as a result of this.

[@joejones3434]

1 hour at the EV point?! in what universe?! It only takes an hour to rapid charge an EV on a rapid charger if you're deliberately trying to spread misinformation in a video. It's longer than a petrol pump, but I've never spent an hour on a rapid charger in my life (3 years of EV ownership). It's usually 20 minutes max while I get a coffee and use the loo, often 10 mins. An hour is just nonsense.

[@kevinpounder]

Touched a nerve then

[@Hitstirrer]

I commented in his vid about the chargers across the road that he claimed didn't exist. He replied to say that they couldn't be used overnight. And at a stroke revealed his lie about not knowing about them. But in any case, he could have plugged in for an hour during breakfast at the hotel because they didn't set off until after 10:30 that morning. And left with 200 miles range. Then stopped at a high powered hub for 20 minutes. As you say, he plays his EV unaware flock like a fiddle. Any EV driver can see through him easily.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Another lie from him then because of course they can be used overnight. I’ve charged up overnight before there. Not only that but the car park is free during the winter months.

[@DavidJones-gr1fb]

I think you are missing the point and the fact that Macmaster already owns a electric car. Getting petrol or diesel is much more convenient and why do you really need to go on journeys where you need to work out where to get a charge before hand like a military campaign. Then there is the charging cost which is obviously a rip off. A little electric car for running around town and then charging at home seems OK. But if you look at the bigger picture then the electric car overall is not the environmental success story that some people would believe. The battery is the achilles heel both from useage, production, environmentally and economically. It has been calculated you need to drive at least 70000miles before you gain an advantage over a petrol or diesel car. Don't forget that the first cars were predominantly electric as well as steam before the internal combusion engine started to supplant all others. People forget that this is an historical fact and the IC engine became more popular because it was more convenient. Petrol and Diesel needs to be conserved for future generations and the electric has a part to play but not to replace entirely. Please remember that the average household in UK has over 3000 items that are derived from oil and gas and it will take centuries to replace these items. The Evangelists as Mac terms them need to go back to school and study chemistry before they destroy modern life and send themselves and others back to the dark ages.

[@jonatkinson1971]

You know the world has gone to 💩 when a Ford Mustang morphs into a ghastly electric SUV. I rest my case...

[@AbzScotland]

Do you think you could beat Geoff, with your knowledge and expertise. Everyone should be free to choose their mode of transport. As far as I can tell, most ICE drivers object to the "green" lies being told about EVs, the unfair government subsidies and the protection being run by MSM.

[@lkrnpk]

I will give you subsidies but for example my country does not produce oil so we have to buy it but we can produce hell lot of our on electricity so for me better to subsidize electricity then. Also what “green lies”, my country’s grid is rather green, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar in summer, not that much natural gas. Cars are produced elsewhere so other emissions are their problem, here we do not have exhaust. MSM, well they are also exaggerating how many Teslas catch fire, show blokes with 6 year old previous gen 150 mile range EVs (that had that range when came out, not have lost that much range) and how they struggle in winter especially and call it the EV reality as of today… and say that there is no demand for EVs

[@gillscorner794]

Everyone is free to choose their mode of transport? Is this some new conspiracy theory? What exactly are these green lies? The only lies I see about EVs come from nut job conspiracy theorists who want to carry on killing the planet. Mac bloke seems like a bit of a tw@t to me

[@watcher24601]

What subsidies? Or do you mean the tax benefits awarded to gas companies every year?

[@AbzScotland]

@@watcher24601 in terms of the oil/gas sector - tax breaks from huge taxes already paid you mean. Oil sector still a net payer over many many years.

[@tichwykes]

My issue with electric vehicles is the price of them, the fact I live in a flat so cant charge it overnight, I need a vehicle I can tow with & as we know this drastically reduces range & as I live in the sticks from my home to work there is no charging point whatsoever. I came out of a meeting the other night & there was an EV being charged on the side of the road with its charging cable across the path so improvements definitely need to be made there. I don't hate EV's but I do think there's a lot that needs to be improved as I sometimes get the feeling if you live in a house with a driveway then I'm alright Jack & sod everyone else who can't charge an EV, as if they lived in a terraced property or flats I think they would think very differently

[@javelinXH992]

You are spot on. I am the opposite of you, I have an EV, off-road drive parking at own home etc. Because of that it fits me and works perfectly, if I was in your place, I don’t think I would change at the moment. Whether that changes depends on what happens in future but I think ICE cars will not be replaced for many years to come because of their advantages over EVs. Both are different technologies and what works for one person won’t work for another.

[@user-rf9me7xm1w]

@@javelinXH992Wow, the most sensible comment on this channel, well done.

[@warrensmith4590]

It's unlawful to place trip hazards across the pavement without prior planning permission for temporary works. There was a bloke in Scotland who did it right- with a wire cover and every Elf n Safety angle covered. It was still against the law. He was fined and told to cease.

[@javelinXH992]

@@warrensmith4590 I believe, in England at least, that you have to apply for an approved cut with a cover to be placed in the pavement. I think this is done through the local council.

[@Ironbuket]

Either one channel or the other needs to go to that car park in the daytime and film whether you are actually allowed to park there overnight unattended charging or not. Also they need to check if that info matches what it says on the apps/google that would affect your decision to go there

[@Hitstirrer]

Lots of such places have a bylaw to prevent overnight sleeping in campervans. Perhaps that's what Lee was referring to. It would be unusual to prevent a car from charging using that clause.

[@Kevin-dp1vy]

The public chargers at my local Library are only available 8.30 to 17.30 and the chargers at the Morrisons car car park are locked in when the store closes. An EV owner was fined at Tesco Telford for charging his car on a slow charger because the free-parking time limit is cut from three hours to 15 minutes when the store is shut. The whole public charging situation is a mess and the Government needs to step in and sort it. @@Hitstirrer

[@MrNeeds]

I’m surprised a Taycan can only get 180 miles off a full charge, what is MacMaster doing to the thing? If he was driving the 20mph limit, he should be getting 300 miles and not need to charge, I’ve got from Holyhead to Cardiff on a single charge before the 20mph limit was introduced and it took me 5 hours.

[@benjilafouine]

I just watched your debunk video from the MacMaster’s one and here’s my view on it. I have been analyzing the EV market scientifically for a year with viewing documentaries and experiences, from owning an EV to the electric grid production of the largest countries in the world (in all aspects) and as much as EVs are cool and performing vehicles, I personally think that currently owning an EV for real life is too much of a hassle. Despite your comments being valid, I still find the EV experience too tedious for what I could do myself (given my physical condition and where I live). Also, all this testing and evaluating hinges on the fact that there will be enough electricity grid for a 100% EV park in a few years and honestly, in all the countries I’ve analyzed, a good chunk of the grid’s electricity is still produced with petroleum or coal. Just doubling the capacity while decarbonating what’s already there over the next five years is an impossibility. There’s a long way to go for complete adherence to EVs but having enough clean grid electricity and simplifying the charging mode of these cars is a must, which is not what I see at the moment. To conclude, the production of a single EV car generates several tons of CO2 and these cars must be driven for some years before they start being ecological (I think just the lithium mine part emits 13+ tons of CO2). I don’t think charging here instead of there will make a difference with the point that MacMaster is trying to demonstrate. The EV revolution and adoption of EVs have a big issue: the approach should be top down, which is quite the opposite at this point. Regards.

[@stevezodiac491]

My EV will only last half the time of my ice cars, with battery degradation, so you can double that carbon in producing an EV against an ice car, in my experience.

[@paulfowler3416]

I think you will find some of what you say is not very accurate - the Guardian series on ev myths is a useful starting point.

[@TB-up4xi]

@@stevezodiac491 If you purchase a car with an LFP battery in 2024 it will last on avergage 800k to 1million miles, far greater than the avergage lifespan of an ICE car, and when it's had it's life in the EV 95% of the raw materials can be reovered and recycled - or the battery repurposed as fixed storage (home / commercial solar etc.)

[@davidorr6627]

Honestly, what a load of rubbish. Maybe you could actually listen to what MacMaster said. He's not going to charge to 80%, then have to go through all the drama again later on to charge up some more. He knows full well that charging from 80-100% is slow, but the fuss of finding a working, non-busy charger is not worth the effort. MacMaster and Geoff knew that the route they were taking wasn't the quickest route. That wasn't the point of the trip. The point was to compare the EV with the diesel doing the same trip at the same time.

[@SDK2006b]

Think you didn't listen to this video - he could have made the destination just charging to 80%. Of course, had he charged near the hotel in the first place for 30mins - he wouldn't be in that situation anyway - All scripted to fail and lies when questioned 🤣

[@davidorr6627]

@@SDK2006b I was referring to the Wales trip with Geoff Buys Cars not the return trip home to Leeds. If you have ever bothered to watch any of the MacMaster/Geoff Buys Cars challenges, you would know that they are not scripted at all. They are just 2 guys having a laugh and also highlighting the appalling state of the charging network in the UK. Maybe you should watch MacMaster's rebuttal to this video, particularly the part about the chargers near the hotel.

[@SDK2006b]

@@davidorr6627 - I don't trust anything MacMaster says - it's all lies to ensure he can continue to reap the financial rewards from his videos. His audience should be aware that his videos are for entertainment purposes and the factual side is glossed over !

[@leelee9788]

Thank you to all the ev owners who raised the cost of insurance for everyone else. I work in recovery and we don't touch them, we source the work out to someone else as we don't want the liability.

[@Brian-om2hh]

It seems you hadn't realised the cost of *all* types of insurance has risen. I just renewed my home insurance, which had risen by 50%..... So, once mass electric car take-up arrives, you'll be out of a job then?

[@petergosney6433]

@@Brian-om2hh spot on. Supposedly, the collective insurance industry has spotted the “next new wave” and is saying “Not for me!” “When opportunity knocked, he complained at the noise.”

[@ElectricClassicCars]

You clearly don’t understand how the insurance industry works or are you going to blame higher general insurance costs on boy racers that are higher risk or sports cars or higher value cars. Your argument makes no sense.

[@1fluffypuss]

@@Brian-om2hh More fool you for paying the hiked price. I got a better deal and more enhanced cover on mine for LESS By the way, I read all the smallprint and exclusions etc, I don't just see a cheap price and think I'll have that ;-)

[@twig3288]

The issue relates the high cost of ev batteries damaged in accidents and the fire risk when thermal runaway is triggered. If your ev battery ignites then get well clear of the fire and do not inhale the smoke, it’s highly toxic

[@ScottJonesMTB]

I would love an EV but just cannot afford one at this stage. I see SO MUCH EV negativity on KZbin. Not sure of what the motivation is around this content. Love this channel though. Always watch every episode start to finish. Scott (Shrewsbury, UK).

[@philsimpson3556]

Reading most of the comments shows this is not going too well. There has to be major improvements in EV range, charging availability and cost and on the road costs for EVs to become widely acceptable to most.

[@HisDudeness2023]

False. In the US EVs pay no road use tax. That is changing. Tax will be higher due to EV additional weight. UK no VAT on charging. That will change.

[@leerobinson4078]

Your comments are nothing to do with having a vested interest then. Only charging to 80% of a poor range in the first place. FFS sensible people see through this.

[@LOYALISTGOVAN]

He hates evs because his own cars value dropped its arse and left him owing a whopping debt if he either sold it or gave it back to porsche, 30 grand i believe.

[@robtmcL12]

I watch Geoff, Macmaster, Petrol Ped and CCC. I watch because I love the content. I have had 2 hybrids ( Golf GTes for 5 years ) and an Audi Etron ( 3 years ) and I am now driving an XC40 twin recharge. After driving diesels of my own and at work, it is a pleasure to drive my electric cars. I do find Macmaster to be a truer representation of an EV owner. How many chargers were at St Davids ? Not 16 as you claimed. 16 plugs don't mean 16 dedicated chargers ( 2 per charger makes 8 chargers ) of which not all will be fast chargers at all locations. My go to is Lidl or Morrisons. As an Electrical Engineer I prefer to limit the charge rate over the fill capacity. It's actually better to charge slower to 100% that push 300KW in to 80% in 20 minutes. Heat builds up. Heat stresses the batteries and you're at greater risk of thermal runaway. I have worked within the Electricity Supply industry for 35+ years so I've seen disruptive failure of equipment first hand. The exact same happens when a fully charged EV fails. A charged EV can have well over 100KWhr now. Where does that Energy go ? A depleted EV will burn far less than a charged one. Perhaps do the experiment your self, I have and the release of energy of a single charged cell is shocking. Multiply that by 7000 and, well, we see what happens to car parks.

[@robtmcL12]

As for the route he took, I do that drive weekly. The A483 is awful. Driving through the "Mach Loop" is some of the most beautiful scenery in the world. Perhaps drive that way your self, I recommend it. You even get to see fast jets on low level flight training.

[@digiography]

For ICE Luddites who love to post misinformation about EVs, I would choose LuddICEs as a nickname.

[@gregpodmore2850]

🤡

[@fredjames9867]

We are still waiting for eV owners to prove otherwise

[@markevans5596]

Yeah. I have noticed that there are some people out there who either really hate electric for whatever reason, or just want to get KZbin views, who slate EVs incessantly and unnecessarily. I'm a petrol head, love messing with carbs and tuning my bikes and cars. Doesn't mean I automatically hate electric power...

[@ElectricClassicCars]

I love petrol cars and EVs, I just like EVs more nowadays. But I like facts more. 😉👍

[@curmudgeon1933]

Special interest groups such as car makers with billions of dollars worth of potentially stranded assets, and fossil fuel corporations watching their captive market shrinking, have deep pockets and are willing to fund any number of KZbinrs to upload scare stories about EV's. Unlike MSM these 'influencers' have little incentive to be honest. There is no accountability or consequences for 'bending the truth i.e. lying...and a willing audience of 'real' petrol heads, who will believe, and share, any BS, no matter how outlandish, extreme or inaccurate. Ironically, one of the most famous KZbin automotive presenters is Jay Leno, and he has been driving, and promoting, EV's for years.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Marvellous. At last, someone with a complete view of the whole picture......

[@fredjames9867]

Honestly the government says something people believe it will at the same time the government is driving ice .

[@jonevansauthor]

@@ElectricClassicCars you probably also think engineering is cool, so you know, EVs are where it's at. Except the Porsche with it's pointless transmission there to fool people. It baffles me that people think they're really into engineering but that modern ICE vehicles are incredibly interesting or impressive. Brunel would be horrified at the idea we haven't gone fully electric.

[@deanothedinosaur9069]

Wow, a real EVangelist.

[@nivs123]

A small car with sub 100 mile range might cost as little as £30k for us to convert, whereas a large 4x4 with 200 mile range might cost over £100k. - Failing to be convinced at those prices.