Europe’s Carmakers increase Gas car prices to avoid paying $16B fines

[@electricviking]

Click here to get a free charger and installation when pre-ordering the G6 xpeng.com.au/?qr=726XPO The best solar company in Australia just installed my new solar system. Check them out here: www.resinc.com.au/electricviking

[@fpsharing]

He has dealt with all "solar companies" in his country, and knows that one is "best "

[@cunawarit]

This seems like the perfect storm for economic collapse.

[@NoiserToo]

@@cunawarit - simply remove the emission caps, and the boat will start correcting itself upright.

[@alarjak]

@@NoiserToo Or start making good ev's.

[@TerbrugZondolop]

@@alarjak😂 hahahahaahaha

[@TerbrugZondolop]

Exactly

[@RichardJ.Schueler]

@@alarjak hilarious!

[@daviddunmore7076]

I'm in a Midlands town in the UK, and most days I go for a walk of around 5-6 miles, avoiding the main roads. Today I walke along the main road into the town centre for about a mile, and all I could smell was the mix of Petrol and Diesel exhause. I wont' be doing that again anytime soon. At least the UK has no tariffs on Chinese EVs (yet).

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

We did a visit to the UK in June from NZ and loved it. The one big surprise was the couple of days we spent in London, most of the trad' London taxis were evs, as was our tour bus. I must admit we did not notice air pollution during our visit. We travelled from lands end to Inverness and loved every minute of it, except for the millions of those multi lane roundabouts, probably needed with such a large population 14x more than here, and in a country roughly the same size. I was a nervous wreck by the time we finished our visit, but a happy one.

[@Sulzbach-dk7ov]

At the same time, Germany is wondering why no one is buying their cars😂😂😂😂😂

[@imrytebeehyneu]

The EV won

[@andrewsaint6581]

​@@imrytebeehyneuEV won? That's payment from a Chinese buyer. Or is it the cars gm crushed 25 years ago?

[@christryst]

​@@imrytebeehyneuHa, no the globalists won, muppet.

[@NoiserToo]

@@Sulzbach-dk7ov - the emission caps from woke EV politicians have destroyed the German economy. This will I’ll be reversed in the upcoming elections.

[@beegonee]

No one buy money pit..😅

[@cagejones7757]

So Europe wants people to buy more EVs, yet they add huge tariffs on cheap Chinese EVs.

[@sullivanrachael]

EU doesn’t want people to buy cars. And if people really want or need a car, they’ll have to pay over the market price to buy an EV. They want fewer cars on the roads. It’s about control. Absolute control.

[@NoiserToo]

@@cagejones7757 - woke politicians want more EVs… and they predicted that they will be voted out in the upcoming elections. This will give Germany a fresh start to survive.

[@gagamba9198]

They want Europeans to buy European-made EVs. But they also want fewer cars in the road and more people riding public transport or bicycles. Many commentators here fail to realise the post-WWII trade order is finished. The US has no interest in supporting it any longer - that's both the Democrats and the Republicans. And because the US is not an export oriented economy - 11.77% of GDP is exports, which is abnormally high due to energy exports - it can play hardball with the countries that rely on exports as large percentage of GDP. Europe depends on exports to maintain prosperity. In 2022, exports of goods and services were 32.17% of UK's GDP, 34.01% of France's, 50.34% of Germany's GDP, and 84.96% of the Netherlands'. Germany's top export by value was vehicles, followed by machinery. America's top export by value is petroleum and its products as well as natural gas, which not only have demand by vehicle owners but are a feedstock (direct and indirect) for just about everything else - chemicals, fertilisers, plastics, textiles, roads, etc. It's a foundation on which everything else is built. Why else does everyone put up with KSA? Why did Merkel continue to appease Putin after the invasion of Crimea? Energy. I get this is an EV channel and attracts those who are interested in EVs, but the world economy is more than that one product.

[@NoiserToo]

@@gagamba9198 - well said, sir. 👍🏻

[@sullivanrachael]

Very well said - about economy and also how EVs aren’t the whole economy. Germany exported a huge number of high quality ICE vehicles. Germany has not achieved the dream of making EVs that are the equivalent of those - the EV versions cost a lot more. Worse still, China produces most of the batteries, and EU law demands EU vehicles have a high EU component content. So by mandating the switch from ICE to EVs, huge amounts of the German economy have been shut, and it will stay that way, unless EVs can be made affordable or the rules on ICE relaxed. Considering the politicians care more about net-zero than living standards of their citizens, I’d say the EU was killing its own economy with net-zero.

[@rickybosephus2036]

Europe economic suicide

[@NoiserToo]

@@rickybosephus2036 - exactly.

[@albertsmit9741]

yeah vote for people who have never had a real job, get their money for free from the ones who still work or print it on toiletpaper and let them make the rules.

[@Benzknees]

All to force consumers into lousy EV products they don't want, just to satisfy the UN's power grab by weaponising a flawed theory on the cause of global warming.

[@phprofYT]

Why not. They already committed social suicide by bad policies.

[@jwstolk]

These regulations have been in place for many many years, and European manufacturers know the rules, they especially remember the billions they have been paying to Tesla for credits, after trying to cheat their way out. Tesla is profitably building cars in Europa and paying taxes in Europe. Europe has very few oil and gas reserves, and a large part of the European economy depends on it. That is economic suicide.

[@Stiffytheenlightened]

People (like me) will just hang on to their old cars until it all blows over.

[@binmanblog]

More likely break down😢. My i40 diesel is on it's last legs but I will keep it until it dies. I have just bought a MG4 for the wife. EV's are getting much better

[@sushiginger444]

@@binmanblog if you don't have a driveway or frequently drive long distances or tow a caravan, it doesn't matter how good they are, it will never work - until you can add 600-700 miles range in 5-10 minutes like I can with my diesel, for a similar cost . If you live in a building with underground parking like me they will never allow charging there, and it's only going to take one tragic EV fire under an apartment block for charging there to be banned - or buildings will be uninsurable. Governments need to back off and let the technology catch up with their ambitions.

[@Simon-dm8zv]

@@sushiginger444it will be fine. Plenty of underground parkings with chargers around the world.

[@DaveBarnes1]

Still got your good old gas lights, a coal fire, a Kodak film camera, a pager, your Nokia or Blackberry phone, sharing your videos with friends on your projector in a dark room, sending postcards from your holidays in blackpool???

[@hTyKn1]

@@DaveBarnes1 hahaha

[@robinspat]

Making consumers pay for bad management

[@NoiserToo]

@@robinspat - bad management by woke politicians. That’s all gonna change soon…

[@marcwillard]

Sorry, but this comment section is misleading and agenda-driven. This is not due to just “bad management”. The collapse of the motor industry is not as superficial as that. It is disingenuous to make such flippant comments is not the whole picture Germany’s motor industry is closely linked to it’s economy and the price of ENERGY,TAXES and lack of the country’s infrastructure to deal with such It’s about the economic history sudden changes in the GEOPOLITICAL landscape. THE REASON the motor industry IS STRUGGLING to keep up with China EV Production and CPU MICRO-CHIPS, is because CHINA (as whole state) has put a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of investment in it’s MANUFACTURING INFRASTRUCTURE. This is a system that works amazingly well for production. HOWEVER, this is in a very SOCIALIST/COMMUNISTIC way of doing things. Where as in the Western side of the world, WE HAVE DEINDUSTRIALISED, thus the WHOLE WORLD have been OUTSOURCING from CHINA. This STATE-LEVEL, and less to do with the mis-management of ALL THE COMPANIES IN THE MOTOR INDUSTRY. Other than the Chinese, all automotive companies are struggling. So what we are seeing is over the past 70 years, the decisions of states, and where these states have directed their economies and geopolitical shift in the world. Relationships over energy and how that energy is made - crippled industry in the west. I know it’s only a KZbin comment, but misinformation is not good. Not at least if you want be a bastion of Truth. I will tell you now, a lot of things happening at the moment in the world are shrouded in lies and misinformation. Anyways, please have a great day, whoever you are. I wish you all the best for you and your loved ones.

[@AnonymousCommenter1985]

@@marcwillard So, what's your point? Are you a socialist/communist fan or hater?

[@robinspat]

@ Oh please. The European and American and South East Asian car manufacturers have had the direction of travel under their noses since 1997 Kyoto. They’ve had the rise of green politics and since around 2014 some little outfit called Tesla, rather than the stagnant development of the Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius as extremely noticeable flags on investment markers. They chose to doggedly back fossil fuel burners as promoted by big oil funding of all avenues of marketing the things via machismo, alleged sex appeal et al. But Top Gear shows and motoring disinformation magazines have NOT managed to successfully poo poo electric cars. The only two issues have been price and charging. With the fall in battery prices coupled with their huge improvement in range and efficiency this is negated. The barrier is now likely governments successfully lobbied by legacy auto makers and big oil and gas to impose tariffs to tax the buyer on buying extremely affordable (parity and lower running costs over life of vehicle) Chinese motors like MG, BYD, Xpeng, and South East Asian products like Kia and Hyundai. American liars like Mary Barra GM and half hearted Jim at Ford along with Europeans like VW firing their CEO for telling them truth have only themselves to blame. They got so hugely in to debt at the time of the financial crash and the band played on. They did not mothball legacy fossil fuel lines fast enough. They did not spend $500,000,000 per new vertically integrated production line from batteries up to finished car. They finally ingrained their own built in obsolescence. So yes it is bad management since long before 2008. Shorty termism thinrking by CEOs thinking only in 5 year plans and their next package of bonus negotiation and move around the merry-go-round on the CEO game. They refused to notice Tesla and promptly copy parallel. The argument of no charging network… well in the last 10 years and more that has been attended to. Factoring in home charging on low tariffs or even installation of solar panels be they cheap flexinpanels to decent latest glass and inverters and home battery banks. It is rapidly becoming the only logical choice for house dwellers whether renting or mortgaged. See Norway a really cold country for a softie like me in London. Yet their transition to EV has been the model for the world proving it is doable. Now a second hand Tesla model 3 with 93% battery health at four years, 103,000 miles on the clock and a likely further 300,000+ miles capability FOR £22,000 or less! I stand by my comment and mark you out as either an apologist for legacy auto maker management failure or a shill for big oil and gas and those same legacy car maker management teams focused on crap managed decline. Or perhaps your from a policy think tank lobby group for ignorant politicians or those with vested interests in true Luddite style. The transition to EV is faster than politicians publicly admit or worse, faster than they even realise. Watch this space for penetration around 2027/8 save for damage caused by tarries stifling rate of transition.

[@robinspat]

@@marcwillard I stand by my comment

[@lucvb1853]

The reduction of emission by ICE cars can also be achieved by promoting smaller cars. But the opposite has happend. Car manufacturers in Europe and around the world have promoted bigger and heavier cars. And thus bigger engine, thereby increasing the fleet emissions. This reason for this is purely profit driven. There is more profit in (very) big cars then in small cars. Don't start about this is what the consumer wanted. The car manufacturers came up with petty reasons why the smaller cars were not available for purchase, marketing did the rest. It's all about protecting those profits.

[@chrisheath2637]

I believe that the reason for making bigger cars was also that size for size, it was easier to meet the emissions targets for bigger vehicles. So, somewhat crazily, the emissions targets promoted larger vehicles over smaller ones , even though the actual emissions would be lower for a smaller vehicle...

[@stephenwood9687]

Spot on! Bigger cars - bigger profit for manufacturers - bigger depreciation for owners - earlier obsolescence for vehicles due to over complication and unnecessary tech - more sales --- and repeat!

[@Hickalum]

@@chrisheath2637Correct - bigger cars can carry more exhaust cleaning hardware.

[@dummyxl]

There is another reason. Smaller cars ar cheaper, but eu force them to add a lot of safety and other sensors etc.. that add more on the production price. But the small cars can't be sell for Higher prices because customers can't buy the and the price gap for a bigger car is to small so customers buy that instead. That way the demand for smaller cars is lower and more expensive to make.. and this is the reason the smaller cars is disappearing. I bought a 2020 Mazda 2. I wanted a new one but that was was 15.000 euro more! Crazy.

[@radman8321]

Correct. All of the improvements in engine efficiency have been wasted on heavier and heavier cars.

[@banyantree8618]

The whole point of Disruption is……..it’s disruptive! Either be disruptive or recognise it really quickly and adapt accordingly. Legacy automakers are complacent and probably thought auto and petrochemical lobbyists would carry them through.

[@gtkachyk]

Love the government pressure

[@NoiserToo]

@@banyantree8618 - a disruption to the disruption is coming soon to local politics. Legacy automakers are compliant and misled by woke pipe-dream EU politicians.

[@MickB52s]

agree,,,time's are a changing 60's culture...can't hold back momentum...

[@NoiserToo]

@@MickB52s - yeah, angry Germans in the streets

[@yousausage]

You guys all have smooth brains.

[@obfuscateidentity2329]

Who blew up the gas pipeline from Russia which provided cheap energy to Germany.

[@johnbrown4568]

Yes...Germany has yet again gone insane.

[@larryc1616]

In the membrane..

[@rudiechinchilla6746]

And wealthy too

[@Anon54387]

@@rudiechinchilla6746 Nope. If Germany were a US state it'd be among the 5 poorest. This myth somehow continues that Germany is wealthy. I guess if you compare it to the poorest African nations..... But that's rather like cherry picking.

[@michaelfung4629]

Imagine the picture was reversed: EU ahead of the game on EVs. They'd be finger pointing and jeering like barking dogs.

[@pietermoorer3679]

You put the finger on the spot. Our politicians are dumb as fuck. They have completely committed to wishful thinking and done away with Scientific proven policy. That is why they only use the carrot and stick incentive..

[@mc1251]

The trouble is people do not want EVs because they are inferior to ICE at the moment and much more expensive. Even the chinese ones. EU is committing a planned suicide. Planned by USA and China... Thank you EU politicians.

[@mithrandirthegrey7644]

Nobody wants EVs. More than half of EV owners wanna change back to ICE.

[@hansraub8663]

I wonder how much Human suffering, pollution is Created by the WARS we are fighting, any Regulation on that ?

[@rawnet101]

Completely off topic but the military-industrial complex will not be denied.

[@TomAllen-r8w]

@@rawnet101 By that I assume you are talking about the Russian invader who sends missiles into Kindergartens? Just wanting to clarify as your comment was obtuse.

[@NoiserToo]

@@hansraub8663 - no, no, no….the EU emission caps demand electric tanks and tight gun control requirements forbid the use of live tank shells 👀🤣 Thank your woke neo-con politicians for this entire mess.

[@rawnet101]

@@TomAllen-r8w I was implying generally that while I agree with the OP, the military-industrial complex’s hold on taxpayer money is tight almost everywhere, because they are some of the biggest donors to Govt.

[@onememory6484]

@@TomAllen-r8wnot sure, is that war somehow worse than the dozen of wars going on currently? Any reason you like to focus on one when we were talking about all wars?

[@raypalmer7733]

It sounds like they are loosing profits and as such they increase prices to make up for the loses.

[@andrewsaint6581]

Brilliant 🤦

[@richard--s]

And the people say, they are too expensive, I don't buy any of your cars. I can't buy them. "But they are premium". I don't need premium. The premium buyers market is small.

[@Mrbfgray]

Legacy auto is F-ed, globally.

[@NoiserToo]

@@raypalmer7733 - same in the States. The only solution is to drop the EV lineups and stop losing money. That’s business 101.

[@gphuang67]

A suicidal act increasing prices while affordable cars are around the corner

[@rufdymond]

I have just taken delivery of a new car 4 weeks ago and it’s not an EV, it’s a FHEV which is the closest I could reasonably get at this time. I have nothing against EV’s and would have loved to have one, but they are just too expensive. Plus here in the U.K. for someone like me who cannot charge at home, the cost public charging can be as much as 10 times higher than what you would pay at home. The government wants everyone to move to EV’s but there seems to be nothing in place to make that transition easier for the consumer.

[@ChickensAndGardening]

apartment dwellers are SOoL when it comes to EV charging. Apparently they will have to hang an electrical cord out the window, once gasoline cars are banned.

[@kevinmanan1304]

As a homeowner with a level2 charger but no EV yet, you have my condolences. I hope they will resolve this issue or make level 1 chargers more accessible in apartments. The whole point of an EV (to me) is the convenience of waking up to a full charge and not pump gas. Without a home charger (and solar panels) I would never ever consider an EV.

[@ChickensAndGardening]

@@kevinmanan1304 We have a house with a regular AC socket in the garage, and my kid was trickle charging her Leaf with it; it takes 18-20 hours to charge from empty. Then we ran an extension cord from the dryer socket out to the driveway, and now she can charge overnight in 3-4 hours. Super convenient. I also got a splitter device so we can run the dryer (turns off the charger)

[@cylac12]

Roads are too congested..Rich and important people are delayed by the presence of the serfs, need to get them off the roads somehow. /s?

[@AdrianHilder]

I'm a big fan of EVs and have one myself. BUT ... I can park on my driveway and charge at home. In my home town I would not have an EV if I could not charge at home. It would be too expensive and inconvenient to live with. My wife's nearly new car, a fairly big Ford Galaxy is a FHEV and it's very impressive. Real world 41mpg which is amazing for a 2.5L petrol with a reasonable amount of power. I think you made the best choice you could for your circumstances. We are a long way away from EVs being right for everyone.

[@roysigurdkarlsbakk3842]

I live in Oslo, and we have something like the most number of electric cars per captia i nthe world. Some two years ago, in Novermber, I went to Berlin for a week, just to chill out. It all started with taking a deep breath once I came to the city and I thought, wow, this smells like the eightees! The difference of air pollution was staggering! Now, this is a subjective observation, but still, I beleive it's true. Take a trip to Oslo and feel the difference, guys :):

[@errolwirasinghe]

You are the BEST! You are open-minded. You show the good, bad, and ugly. Thanks

[@electricviking]

Appreciate that!

[@undisclosedthai]

I recently saw a Norwegian EV channel heavily criticizing him. The "comment section below" comments are really oppose him. I can assure that he is an EV channel from Norway, not an anti-EV channel. Incredible.

[@davidhunter3605]

Tariffs on, in this case cars are a tax on consumers. It's not clear how long non car producing countries in Europe will be willing to pay say 20,000 Euros extra for a car, compared to a Chinese equivalent, to keep French, Italian and German car works in jobs.

[@NeutronStar-r7r]

I now have 6 older cars ranging from 2002 to 2017. All are low milage and in good order. By sharing the milage between them I should get at least 25 years of reliable driving. I am actually not increasing my carbon foot print because I am just one person and will drive the milage I have always done. Given these cars already exist I have not added to an increase in CO2. If I was to replace them with an EV or two I would be massively adding to my carbon foot print. Never let a government manipulate the market as bad outcomes usually follow.

[@timewa851]

Until the electron crowd acknowledges the battery issue that owners are left with at nine years, these electric vehicles are Ponzi Schemes. Go hybrid or forget it, keep your classic ICE & drive on. Gov'ts LIE.

[@jwstolk]

I suspect you are not in Europe. Keeping 5 extra cars without using them, would be 3000 euro/year in road taxes, plus almost the same in mandatory insurance and yearly inspections. Unless you could store them for more than a year indoors for at least a year, but even de-listing them for a year is not cheap. Even if they are underivable but visible from a publicly accessible road (including private roads with open gates) the road taxes, insurance and inspections are mandatory.

[@NeutronStar-r7r]

@ Agree its not viable in Europe. I’m from Australia where it’s more affordable.

[@artholyoke]

Germany's green deal is working. Nobody will be able to afford a car to drive. Good job an reducing emissions

[@christryst]

@@artholyoke This was the ultimate goal for sure. Car ownership is dropping in many parts of Germany from a high of about 40 million.

[@NoiserToo]

@@artholyoke - “you will own nothing, and be happy” 🤣 China is offering a two-for-one on Green no-emission rickshaws!

[@larryc1616]

Tesla Berlin doing well

[@JABelms]

​@@NoiserToo My friend in China owns a sports car (Mitsubishi evolution) and he pays green fines everytime he registers his vehicle, additional cost. ICE cars will only be rare and or performance cars that can only be owned by car enthusiasts and rich individuals. This is the best way forward

[@francismarion6400]

It's almost as if China designed the climate agenda.

[@oopsydaisy4637]

I've never paid more than £2500 for a car. £25k for a cheap ev is madness. Why not cut the domestic flights instead.

[@229andymon]

Falling domestic ICE sales, rising production costs, tanking export sales, unmeetable government mandates…. The end of the ICE age cometh.

[@NoiserToo]

- with all due respect, it will be exactly the opposite. “Enough is enough” applies to the emission caps. I predict that major political change is coming to the EU and these caps will be eliminated in order to save their economies.

[@freeheeler09]

Noise, people in the fire prone Western US and hurricane-hammered Southeast are sick of the higher home and business insurance rates caused by you climate change deniers. And, while some of our great grandparents tried to stand in the way of indoor plumbing, they didn’t succeed! In the US, as solar panel and home battery prices continue to drop, the group that will drive the move to EVs will be homeowners, especially disaster preppers. Once you begin to build savings by powering your home with captured sunlight, it is a small step to say goodby to Exxon and Shell and charging your vehicles at home. Yes, solar and batteries and EVs are still out of reach of low income people. But, innovations abs economies of scale are lowering prices significantly each year.

[@229andymon]

@NoiserToo you'd have to put even higher tariffs on Chinese EVs too. Even at the recently raised levels they'd still be cheaper. All it would get the EU is a stay of execution. While they sit back in their protectionist prison, China would be swiftly killing their (critical) sales in China and many other of their export markets. China, with 1 in 3 of the global car sales now dictates the direction of travel, not the EU, or USA. Locking themselves in a cupboard isn't a solution.

[@Mrbfgray]

@@NoiserToo Maybe but it won't matter for long for legacy auto, from Japan to USA to Germany, they are ALL in deep predictable dire straits. BEVs done right are simply better and cheaper.

[@NoiserToo]

@@freeheeler09 - so be like China, who fuel their electric cars via coal plants, thus transferring the pollution elsewhere from their cities? I will be the first one to purchase an off grid system when they are available at a reasonable price -until then gas, oil and coal are the near-future reality. And this does not even include the political reality of western economies on the verge of implosion - workers will vote for their survival, not high minded, elitist theories.

[@SJJ1992]

The main problem about Europe and the US is their huge ego... even if they know they will fully end up shutting down their companies cause of not lowering their prices, still they rather shut down their companies than let people win their rights...

[@jxmai7687]

Investors just want fish from the pond, they don't care the water is bad.

[@SJJ1992]

@ 🤷🏻‍♂️ exactly

[@haukikannel]

People want to have salary in those countries… Unlike somewhere else…

[@SJJ1992]

@ they get paid average like almost every other country car factories. You think the CEOs of west countries care that much about their workers?... nah...

[@pietermoorer3679]

The problem is not the wages that people earn, it is the Taxation of workers. Up until the '90, Governments where making money them self. Postal service, telephone or even the oil and gas industry. They created houses etc. They sold it al to the marked for a one time profit and now the only form of income is taxation. It has become a vicious circle

[@diablosv36]

Well you know they would say their is no such thing as a free lunch, but a lot of these CEOs got very much use to it, but when they get held to account they don't like it.

[@Piecenotwar]

European car manufacturers in my opinion have to come together and use a common drive unit, a subframe assembly and drive that can be used in many different platforms and by all manufacturers. The days of having your own drive unit/engine are gone, buyers simply will not care about who’s motor moves the vehicle, this will reduce R&D costs and manufacturing costs across all individual manufacturers, then independently they can design a body to accept a common subframe and drive. They also need to setup with Gigapress and start making monocoques differently and more efficiently.

[@walk-with-Walz]

Still not enough, the battery tech is too far out of date, unless they can latch onto a breakthrough battery they're toast

[@Piecenotwar]

@ Manufacturing their own batteries is not the answer yet, they must set up a reliable supply chain now from either China or Tesla. Time is of the essence if they want to survive, and yes they are so far behind they wouldn’t be able to catch up quickly enough.

[@walk-with-Walz]

@@Piecenotwar On every manufacturing metric they'll fail, unless they can leapfrog China's battery production, cost and capacity it's over for them, no matter how they try to co operate they will not beat China's manufacturing expertise and by all accounts the battery breakthroughs will elude them too.

[@rawnet101]

That is true, but they’ve run out of time to pivot fast enough. Legacy auto is truly done. EVs will be cheaper everywhere in about 2-4 years.

[@Piecenotwar]

@ It can be done and course correction isn’t out of the question, the industry needs a leader who can turn it around and the bureaucracy of government and automotive oversight to let them get on with it. But knowing how it all works that won’t happen

[@gerhard7323]

Always, always and again always follow the money.

[@Krasbin]

Well, is it surprising that EVs are not selling when manufacturers in Europe charge insane markups for the batteries compared to the price they pay (markup about 3x the wholesale battery price).

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

they will keep milking it for as long as they can. Luckily here in NZ we have no car manufacturing so no tariffs etc. Most of our imports come from Asia, and Euro vehicles are very expensive in comparison, you need to be a badge snob to justify paying the extra cost. Unfortunately this is fast becoming less and less relevant as Asian vehicles are quite good and have market leading warranties.

[@Gabriel-bz2lt]

În Europe it is hard because of Ursula and her team, the prices for electricity and gas are very high. The labor cost is fine but for every person that works you have 6 managers above him...

[@peterfireflylund]

That’s got more to do with Schröder and Merkel.

[@gerhard7323]

In the UK media, one source on the same day claims EV sales are finally rising and another might claim they're stalling. All very weird.

[@CraigBowers]

Easy with the b roll. 0:40 that isn’t a European gas station. That’s a national PetroCanada station in Canada, complete with Mapleleaf on the wall.

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

he does that a lot.

[@richardmarshall159]

European automakers have been aware that these requirements were coming for how long?🚗

[@51madmitch]

Yes they have, but like many countries the public don’t want to buy them in any great numbers, that is their problem now, you can’t make people buy them with all the drawbacks at present.

[@patrickpirzer4080]

At least 20 years

[@deanervik]

It’s called a death spiral, just like how home solar with batteries ate the energy retailers who are now increasing their pricing which inspires more homes to get batteries

[@maxpower5642]

Really ? Home batteries seem pretty expensive.

[@st-ex8506]

@@maxpower5642 They still are... difficult to justify on economic grounds only... but less so every passing year!

[@billycrocker5908]

The price increase is due to ADDITIONAL demand placed on the electrical grid, (elec vehicles) and the exorbitant cost to upgrade the system & build new powerplants....then sprinkle in 20% inflation (4 yrs).

[@st-ex8506]

@@billycrocker5908 In my country of residence, the price of electricity is going DOWN! I have not paid as little as this year for power for over a decade... and it should get around 11% cheaper next year! Electric vehicles are actually a BOON for utilities, as they tend to charge during low utilization times, and therefore help a better asset utilization! Furthermore, our grids DO indeed need upgrades in the coming years... and even decade... but NO MORE upgrades that were done EVERY YEAR since 1950! So, you should inform yourself a bit better on how the grid works before writing incorrect comments. Having

[@maisorychacha5619]

I read an article a few hours ago and it claims Stellantis want to push back against EVs because by moving ahead with EVs in Europe they are essentially going to go bust. This is amazing coming from them given that they had time to prepare.

[@eddiereed5025]

The trouble was and still is EU manufacturers paid all there profits to shareholders and CEOs instead of drawing down there debt, so now they cannot compete the EU is trying to stop this by using tariff's which will not work as even with tariffs cost and quality of Chinese cars will always be better than EU and where do most EU manufacturers buy there parts from , give up building cars or sell at a cost that the consumer wants and spend your money on investment not paying shareholders vast sums, how can Tesla make cars and sell in Germany .Sadly it is too late good bye to many car manufacturers in EU,

[@larryc1616]

Yup!

[@AB-yt4hd]

Yes and no. The profits paid to shareholders is nothing compared to the taxes paid by the companies. The real problem are the governments which are tax addicts. Governments don't know how to optimize public services and the only way for them to finance their addictions is by raising more taxes.

[@HNedel]

Wrong, they never paid more than 20% of their profits as dividends. That’s what makes their stock attractive when its value is collapsing or stagnating at best. Tesla has been able to finance itself as a „growth“ stock, which is not something a 100 year old german company can do. They invested plenty of money into new models and retooling of factories, which is what they have always done.

[@R-S-X]

In the UK they get a 15k or something fine per car if 22% of there sales isn't EVs.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

The figure varies as there are number of mechanisms in the UK ZEV mandate scheme to offet the impact, New Automotive produced a report individualised by each automaker. For example those with a high volume of hybrids, means any overproduction in CO2 credits (with it's own target level in the UK) can be converted to ZEV mandate credits lowering the target for each individual automaker. They can also trade with other automakers, like Tesla as mentioned in the video, to buy ZEV credits, trade within group or borrow from next year's productoin volumes.

[@thefunksoulplumber22]

Watch the video planned obsolescence with a lightbulb. Find Phoebus who they talk about and see how a conglomerate would fine companies for not sticking to the agenda which is what the union is all about. It will blow your mind, but at the same time, you will fully understand the underlying factors at play here that no one is talking about. Thanks for sharing mate. I'm half Dutch and my Mum lives in Holland so it's good to get as much info from both sides of the pond

[@RogerSutton-ik9fj]

Spare me the everlasting light bulb like the Edison one in the NY fire station as power consumption is the tradeoff and welcome to CF bulbs and now LEDs. You haven't got the everlasting CRT telly still banging away with the VCR have you maestro?

[@gagamba9198]

Ah yes, the lightbulb. You still listening to music on the phonograph, are ya? Sending messages by telegram? Just about every other product is cheaper, longer lived, higher quality, and has more features.

[@frank-y8n]

VW should have modernized its plant in Brussels instead of closing. It could then have subsidized its buyers instead of Tesla. On videos you see many more people working in European car plants than in Chinese ones.

[@chosuriki]

Lol, the EU get what they deserve for following their American masters.

[@HNedel]

This is the EU getting „emancipated“ and „freeing“ itself from American influence. They wanted to be able to talk as equals on the table, now they embarrassed themselves in front of everyone

[@rainertheraven7813]

Wallstreet sold our carmakers short and payed our politicians to destroy them.

[@NoiserToo]

@@chosuriki - right, follow their new Chinese masters 🤣

[@itekani]

Say whut? USA isn't exactly leading the way on emissions cutting.

[@MyerShift7]

In what way? We in the US have rejected your trash left-wing Marxist agendas. EV's are awful for the environment

[@davidwestwater2219]

Because people want ice cars not evs. You won't let people buy what they want

[@JuanSQuiP]

No they dont, problem is that EVs are still expensive and out of budget for the average people, so they CANT afford those cars.

[@williamlewandowski129]

@@JuanSQuiP As before, to get people out of their horse and buggy and into this new fangled contraption called an automobile, people had to be incentivized to do so. When the price/range/convenience equation becomes equal or greater than ICE, then it will happen. It is just a matter of time. Just as when the automobile first came upon the scene. But not a cakewalk as ICE vehicles have come a long long way with better fuel economy, way less emissions, and better reliability. But in the end, the highly evolved and much loved dinosaur will go (mostly) extinct. We still have a few horses around, and we will also have some ICE vehicles amongst us. For the fun of it, if not transportation for the masses.

[@tleo3333]

I don’t want your ICE car to pollute my air that I breathe.

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

all to do with price parity, once that happens watch out.

[@billycrocker5908]

Over your lifetime, have you ever ridden in a car? Or eaten food grown on farms then made available in a convenient location so you dont...starve? Does your military protect you with eco-jets & pedal powered tanks?

[@MR_THINQ]

I’m in the UK and thank god we got out the EU!

[@rawnet101]

@@MR_THINQ Yes - worked really well for you all, huh? 🤔

[@jimsmith5687]

I don't think its going to matter if the EU Economy collapses, it will effect everyone.

[@DimitarBerberu]

So you already know how collapse looks ;)

[@jomukuk1950]

Except that over 50% of cars in the UK are imported, and that is only going to increase, 75% of those imports came from the EU. Vans ditto

[@harrygroundwater2590]

@@DimitarBerberu😂

[@5nowChain5]

Easy fix for PM2.5's, fit LPG to BiFuel and eliminate ALL Particles in Petrol AND Diesel.

[@cchu319]

These companies knew of these green initiative deadlines in Europe, Australia, US and China for decades. Yet, they’ve done nothing. China was once the world’s biggest polluters all thanks to manufacturing moving to China for cheap labour and energy and relaxed pollution rules. Also allowed western countries dumping their waste including toxic materials and electronic waste. Since the Beijing Olympics in 2008, China has made great lengths to cut greenhouse gasses, coal burning, chemical waste, accepting waste from other countries. Today they’re leaders in renewable energy. There’s still some work to do, but I don’t see other countries doing their part to save the world.

[@paulc6766]

Exactly.

[@sabb007]

In China, renewables represent about 52% of nameplate capacity yet they only delivered 12% of total demand. So, China might have built lots of renewables but they are mostly idle. Coal is 42% of nameplate capacity but supplies 70% of demand.

[@yulusleonard985]

@@sabb007 Isnt this year reduced to 53%? Most of China build more coal powerplant usually stop at 2022 but we are in 2024.

[@jrd33]

"Yet, they’ve done nothing. " -- yes they did, they designed and built electric cars. Problem is, many people don't want to buy them, because they're too expensive, the charging infrastructure isn't there, they don't meet the needs of some drivers etc. It's not as though the companies don't want to sell the EVs that are currently filling up their storage facilities...

[@keithpeskett4205]

Why don’t you just let the market decide. If people want an EV they’ll buy one.

[@haukikannel]

The environment does not wait people to want EVs… That is the reason. They were waiting and not enough has been happening.

[@maisorychacha5619]

@@haukikannelcomment of the century. Sometimes the market isn’t perfect so it is the gvt role to intervene to correct it. If we wait until customers “demand” EV then we could wait forever. Sometimes the govt, as a big brother, has to incentivise people to adopt.

[@MyerShift7]

​@@maisorychacha5619no that's called fascism

[@rik2422]

We can see the results!!!​@@maisorychacha5619

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

well then, let us start from an even playing field. Ice or ev. Both exactly the same price, then let us see how many people want one. Hopefully this will happen within the next couple of years, and then they will be even cheaper by the end of the decade. For us here in NZ and Ausi, this will be a lot more likely to happen, in fact it will happen.

[@davesanderson1843]

They have to raise prices to pay the increased costs of reducing economies of scale.

[@KennethOram-ei9ff]

When the Fleet EV's come to the end of the lease period and enter the used car market, who will be a car that has a limited battery lifespan? The problem is that few people want a used ev that has a battery with a lifespan of 7 years.

[@francismarion6400]

This is by design. And with everyone losing their jobs, who can buy a car.

[@TerbrugZondolop]

Spot on. Take away for freedom to move, cars and soon to follow planes. Watch how the elites will use jets for go to the grocery stores.

[@FlorestanTrement]

Thermal (thermique) is what we call internal combustion cars and engines in French and maybe other European languages.

[@afritunez4422]

They can shuffle chairs in the factory!!

[@mestinks]

Yes, MBA certified executives have been taught that all problems can be solved by drawing a new organisation chart

[@frostcb2]

You called it right again over and over Sam. To put a Bandaid on Germany they got to subsidize EV sales of German EV cars. I can appreciate the effort some manufacturers put into that sector when they really want to sell Ev’s. Some want it bad some don’t and the ones who don’t want it…will lose.

[@michaelketley1252]

I don’t think that Europe has the technological wherewithal to manufacture at a lower cost or match the Chinese advances in EV technology…..hence they are unable to reduce prices.

[@gagamba9198]

It would have to be an entirely new marque that's not tied to ICE-era labour contracts, old facilities, etc.

[@JedPotts-jv2ux]

europe absolutely does have the technological wherewithal to beat china, the problem is that europe is punishing its automakers for the fact that customers still want ICE vehicles, whereas china PAYS its automakers to build EVs, china is massively subsidising its car industry, so far china's government has given its automakers $231 BILLION. as much as i dislike the CCP and disagree with them on ideological grounds, they are at least competent, unlike the clowns in charge of europe. china invented both the printing press and blast furnace centuries before europe did, but those innovations were held back because the chinese government at the time was run by complete idiots, europe surpassed them because europe's leaders weren't idiots back then. today we're seeing the opposite situation, china's government is terrifyingly effective while european governments seem intent on committing economic suicide.

[@leeedens9497]

They are the ones that wanted the tougher emission standards, so they have to do something, either that or the car companies will have to just pay the emission fees

[@kramrle]

The solution is straight forward. Close uncompetitive plants in Europe and move manufacturing to Asia.

[@NoiserToo]

@@kramrle - what about all the fired workers?

[@larryc1616]

​@@NoiserToothey can work at Tesla Berlin and Volvo

[@DaBinChe]

@@NoiserToo oh well

[@jimsmith5687]

@@NoiserToo Service Economy - Thanks Paul Keating

[@NoiserToo]

@@jimsmith5687 - more like servant economy 🤣

[@dennissalisbury496]

Given the current economic conditions, is anything stopping the EU from adjusting its emission mandates?

[@ZZR1200ZX]

UK government gave over fifteen billion pounds to foreign aid in 2023. Instead of investing in infrastructure for EV’s as well as giving grants for EV buyers.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

A fair degree of that foreign aid is an expression of soft power and economic tied deals to enable UK's trade abroad, if this wasn't there the UK wouldn't be able to export it's products to many markets. The aid, which is only 0.5% of GDP currently, also reduces disaster and political impacts around the round from impacting the UK directly. Personally I would be worried where the other 99.%% of GDP is being spent rather than focussing on the 0.5%. The UK EV consumer incentives that were previously present for EVs we canned by the previous government when they u-turned on their previous commitments towards EVs. Rather in 2023 the total mixed public/private comitted in the automotive sector was £24 billion, sustained into 2024. The recent, October, budget expanded this further with an additional £2 billion in direct support the UK automotive industry, plus £2.6 billion public (matched with £3b private) in the UKRI fund to drive green innovation including that of battery design and manufacturing. The majority of vehicle manufacturing in the UK has swapped their lines to EV production, Nissan's Sunderland plant for example will be producing all electric Qashqai, Junk and Leaf models from 2025 onwards. Tata via their JLR brands are swapping to electrified production, taking a year out, and Stellantis already compeleted the upgraded of it's Ellesmere Port to electrified LCV production last year. BMW's Cowley plant is taking things a little slower swapping over to the electric mini production by 2026 (currently Mini EV's are produced in China, having been moved from the Oxford plant back in 2022). Toyota, in line with their international strategy, have been producing hybrid Corollas at their Debyshire plant, but with the introduction of the electric Urban Crusier (Suzuki e Vitara) may be produced in the UK for RHD models (rather than in India where the current models are made and shipped from). What is more important is what Sam, outlined in the video that the automakers produce more affordable EV models and reduce the price of their EV's to reflect their lower cost of production.

[@rawnet101]

Foreign aid helps stop people immigrating, so given all the crying for a whambulance about it, there’s that…

[@NoiserToo]

@@ZZR1200ZX - the Uk is run by woke idiots… Expect change at any moment.

[@kristianlavigne8270]

And well over 100 billion to Ukraine 🇺🇦 war

[@rawnet101]

@ Yes, to stop the US from having to send their kids to war to stop Russia from invading the EU who are one of Americas biggest trading partners - or would you be happy with higher prices and unavailability of certain foods? Please keep up.

[@S0me0ne_S0meWhere_SaysHi]

Agreed EV prices must be on a parity with ICE cars now. I.e. cheaper (Renault 5 being a good example!). However, we must not lose European or non autocratic country's ability to manufacture cars!

[@Marco_Polo790]

Anyway I love my 15 years old Toyota auris 😏👌 and not planning to sell it.

[@someone6170]

It is an average of about 4L per 100km for petrol and 3.4L per 100km for diesel.

[@dh510]

I think you got it backwards, diesel releases more CO2 per unit of fuel than petrol.

[@someone6170]

@@dh510 sorry, your right, have edited it to fix. Thanks :)

[@leifvieri4372]

European carmakers do not want to sell their EV's. At least not here in Sweden.

[@richard--s]

That was for 2024. It might change in 2025 when they need each and every EV sold.

[@larryc1616]

Why?

[@user-uw3fi2zg4t]

This is very good in my opinion, too much crap is produced and consumed

[@Altair885]

Let's be honest here for a moment and ask the question 'why do people buy EVs?' Primarily to save money, right? But is that actually the case! Let's take the average EV owner and see. On average most EV owners only cover a few thousand miles a year. This fact can be demonstrated easily by looking at second hand EV sales. Now let's suppose you buy your EV brand new and cover 56,000 miles in a period of eight years. Yes, it's true that if you home charge you will save money on the pence per mile cost. However, now you must work out how much you've saved over the course of that ownership. Does it offset the additional cost of buying an EV? Does it offset the depreciation? Lastly does it offset any of the repairs associated with EVs, especially once out of warranty? I think you'll often find over such low mileages the savings do not offset these factors. The only way an owner can recoup the losses is for them to cover a much higher mileage. At that point owning an EV makes financial sense. However, that is usually only for a period of time until the warranty runs out or just before, by which time the vehicle will have covered around the usual 100k miles of the warranty. By then many EVs often start to show signs of wear and tear. In many models it's been reported that major components such as motor bearings have shown signs of wear or have completely failed, sometimes even at lower mileage while still under warranty. If an owner can avoid any costly repairs and manages to sell the vehicle on for a decent amount then they will indeed have made a saving over an ICE vehicle. It should be noted once these vehicles have high mileages or are getting close to the warranty expiry date they depreciate very rapidly. And for good reason. An EV out of warranty needing any serious repair is virtually always uneconomical to keep on the road. Another point that should be considered when weighing up the pros and cons of either type of vehicle.

[@yulusleonard985]

On average EV are cheaper mostly because Petroleum have complex logistic that government try hard to avoid compared to electricity. Also depreciation varies depends on spare part logistic and how many mechanics can fix them.

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

Firstly my ev has a 7 year warranty, how long is your ice warranty. I charge at home with a simple granny charger each evening, similar to my phone. So, for a lot of people the ev thing is just fine. By the way I cannot refill my Wildtrak at home, so I have to go to a gas station. The fact that I can charge my ev at home has saved me a fortune in Wild Bean coffees over the last 2 years.

[@blackicestudios]

As we say in Trinidad, you stick your get the click. They all took too long to adapt ……. Take too long to answer the phone the people gonna hang up.

[@Truecolors326]

Just remember if people cant AFFORD NEW GAS CARS They will be forced to use OLD ONES and are they not MORE AIR POLLUTION PRONE ?

[@lepotdefleur9906]

Yup, I drive an old Honda civic 2007 and I have no plan to change soon, my other vehicle is a 2011 Silverado which is even worse on fuel consumption that I only use it if I have to but at least once a week to not have the brakes jams and other problems happen.

[@DouglasEKnappMSAOM]

Not in EU, the old cars are not allowed.

[@haukikannel]

People will use bicycles and busses and walk instead! ;)

[@kevinW826]

If people can’t afford expensive gas cars, what makes you think they can afford expensive EVs? Used gas cars are cheaper to run and insure.

[@Simon-dm8zv]

@@kevinW826 Because used EV prices have reached price parity and are a lot cheaper to run.

[@RossBurrell-w8g]

The 12 chargers at Raymond Terrace were getting a good workout yesterday 🎉 The Tesla, MG and BYD people were a chatty bunch 😊all wearing that EV grin! Cars were moving out every 5mins or so so no one was waiting very long ❤

[@rawnet101]

Yes I counted the number of cars without exhausts I saw on the roads recently and it was about 2 in 10.

[@TomAllen-r8w]

Couldn't be true, all the EV "experts" keep telling us the wait is often hours.....I can't believe how much fear and misinformation is being spread about EV's.

[@gtkachyk]

Not only experts but pretty much all ICE owners.

[@rawnet101]

@@TomAllen-r8w Depends where you are of course, but Teslas send you to charging stations with free spots, so that is largely irrelevant. And the rollout will speed up next year, so…

[@TomAllen-r8w]

@@rawnet101 Sorry, I was being facetious. I spend a lot of time reading the crazy comments on the MGUY channel where EV fear and ignorance seem to be a prerequisite for subscription.

[@audistik1199]

The fools deserve this, you reap what you sow. The writing is on the wall. The’ve spent too much time with naysaying the future, trying to convince the public that electric cars don’t make sense. My local co-op power company CEO sent out a letter saying there’s no way conversion to low-pollution power can work because of the mismatch between power generation and demand, totally ignoring the proven technology available. Tesla grid-scale battery’s saved them. This CEO thinks we’re fools. Unfortunately, many in his audience are ignorant.

[@jlrutube1312]

Thank you for being smarter than others.

[@NoiserToo]

@@audistik1199 - the only solution is to revert to ICE and hybrid technology if the EU has any prayer of recovery from these forest mandates. I wonder how the fired workers are going to vote in the next election?

[@havenrail]

In the not to distant future the oil companies are going to start buying up electricity companies and investing massively, just to stay profitiable.

[@paulc6766]

@@NoiserToo Let the Chinese in.

[@NoiserToo]

@@paulc6766 - have you heard the Trojan horse story?

[@play_ground_zero]

Just a thought, if a Chinese company was to produce a skateboard that manufacturers could buy and then add their own chassis, seats, infotainment etc that had no tariffs, would that be enough to allow the existing manufacturers to survive?

[@harold18659]

Solution: Abandon EV's, no imports of cars, stop emission regulations, with a captured local market they can sell ICE vehicles at whatever price they need.

[@rawnet101]

Not gonna happen. We are living through a phase change and legacy auto is a dead man walking. You sound like a buggy driver from the 1900s. 😂

[@larryc1616]

Like analog film, analog phones, DVD and yellow taxis?

[@randygraham926]

Harold, you must have a VW dealership .... I can see the glint in your eyes..... 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑😂

[@tiago4060]

Regulation and timings were set many years ago. They ignored that plus the R&D others did and had the arrogance to think that the measures would be continuously delayed (!!!)

[@thyristo]

That's why they warned their politicians not to duck with China.

[@TomAllen-r8w]

China is paying a heavy price for "ducking" with the whole world. The sales of Chinese EV's is not saving them from the massive industrial downturn and exodus of foreign manufacturers.

[@jimsmith5687]

Can we chicken with China?

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

you are a quack.

[@dermotporter5280]

Dealerships in Ireland,have reduced EV prices and offer PCP interest free.Thats right EV sales have tanked in Ireland,.

[@MrJudgejeffrey]

EV's will not be more attractive even if they gave them away for free, the tech is rubbish and the car companies need to stand up to the global authorities and get realistic targets.

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

are you drunk?

[@MrJudgejeffrey]

@TerryHickey-xt4mf obviously not as drunk as you... There's a good reason that people don't want them and that there not worth anything in the second hand market..

[@matthijsbonefaas]

Solution: learn from Tesla. Use the Giga Press and get more intelligent robots to do the work. Meaning: close the present factory and rebuild with vertical integration. The staff should be fired and is allowed to reapply for the the job against the same wages as by Tesla. Very difficult.

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

This reminds me when I used to live in Brisi in the old days, the SEQEB (power board) employees went out on strike with power blackouts and brought SE Qld to it's knees. Joe, (the premier) sacked the lot of them and made them reapply under his conditions. He was a rogue, but that was one thing he nailed! from then on, we have not had the same amount of disruption to our power grid since. .

[@rossnolan7283]

All because of the complete fallacy about CO2 and ignoring the micro particles of carcinogenic rubber compounds shed by overweight battery cars.

[@thedarkone2444]

​@kenbehrens5778 You obviously haven't a clue and swallow whatever nonsense the government throws at you. Try to look this up, you know what percentage of the atmosphere is carbon dioxide? You ready for this? 0.04% yeah you read that right and if it falls below 0.02% all plant life (that includes us) begins to die off.

[@rossnolan7283]

Ken, better look up the definition of " noxious" first ( and stop breathing out if you truly believe it is ) CO2 is not toxic except in concentrations that displace oxygen (1000s of times greater) and yes, particulates are a problem but are only an issue as you say, at ground level next to road traffic which us why flying cars are a real solution to a real problem ( which CO2 isn't) also by dispersing emissions above ground inversions PHOTOchemical smog is a avoided and a huge improvement in travel speed also achieved - battery cars do neither....

[@Weirdbloke1]

Absolutely. It's a lie. A lie that all the EV fan boys believe. The penultimate aim of the liars is to prevent anyone from owning their own transport. Their ultimate aim is that we all perish. People really need to get their heads out of their asses and smell the f*ing coffee. Merry Cristmas.

[@stuartarmet3526]

I have two friends who have bought Chinese cars this month. I live in Australia.

[@FalkinerTim]

One argument for EVs that does not seem to get mentioned is that for most countries, including EU countries and Australia, every EV in the country that replaces a smelly vehicle helps the country's balance of payments as the country does not have to import petrol or diesel from overseas. As Electric Viking has recently pointed out, China is now reducing its oil imports at least partly due to EVs replacing smellies.

[@christryst]

@@FalkinerTim True, China is so green now, using coal to power it's eletrical grid.

[@rawnet101]

@@christrystChina’s coal fired power has dropped 86% and they’ve added 1,000,000Kwh of renewables this year. Keep pushing that old trope but even it is irrelevant now.

[@larryc1616]

It's good for both Europe and China to not import fossil fuels but rely on their own renewable s and nuclear for domestic energy. That would save and keep the monies inside.

[@robertbrandywine]

Using less oil doesn't necessarily mean not using fossil fuels. They are probably switching to natural gas.

[@paulc6766]

@@christryst I doubt you will pay attention but China's coal use is going down because they know they have to get rid of it.

[@jonhollis2447]

This is 100% to do with Europe and the UK trying to force consumers to buy electric cars that they don't want. That's it.

[@waynewallace2061]

Aa China laughs all the way to their battery manufacture(coal powered) as the EU regulates itself into oblivion.

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

China told the rest of the world over a decade ago what they will be doing regarding the ev revolution and the renewable one too. Nobody took any notice until they ruled the ev world, and the solar panel world, and now everyone is crying foul!

[@vasiliynkudryavtsev]

Pure ICE does not have much ways to optimize because of wide range of conditions. The only way is to use hybrid: ICE in the most optimal mode to power electric battery and electric motor.

[@tjmozdzen]

It makes sense - you want an ICE? Then you have to pay more to help us with the fines we have to pay tesla.

[@chrishaberbosch1029]

They were warned. They had the chance to compete. They chose not to.

[@rassabossa4554]

Solution: End the tariffs and partner with China. Assemble them in your home country so you don’t lose all your jobs but automation is here to stay so deal with it or lose everything.

[@rudiechinchilla6746]

Agree with you totally Aussie!

[@InterstellarMedium]

Sadly, it is becoming more and more evident that the traditional car manufacturers are going to go down the same route as Kodak. European car manufacturers have already become irrelevant today in the world's largest market (China) where the majority of new cars sold are electric. They probably only have about 5 years left to turn around radically before they become completely irrelevant, unable to compete against anyone and end up having to sell their famous brand names to a few successful (and probably mainly Chinese) car makers.

[@crosslink1493]

What with you China fanboys and Kodak? You all must be working for the same ministry bosses. Didn't you know Kodak is a vibrant company, still in business? Maybe the manufacturers outside of China will find a new way to make cars, then China's car companies will be the ones that are obsolete. Here today, gone tomorrow.

[@yulusleonard985]

@@crosslink1493 The big 5 are state owned because they also produce trucks and millitary stuff. They are not going anywhere. Other privately owned companies are very big and not only producing cars. Also Kodak are owned by China.

[@5nowChain5]

ICE to EV Conversions are what ICE Owners Need, So Much to FORD's plan to supply Conversion Parts....

[@nathanbrumbaugh8545]

If the car manufacturer finds it not profitable to sell ice vehicles, stop making them! let somebody else do something different. I’m sure that’s the way supply and demand works.

[@larryc1616]

But that's all legacy auto can do. Ice tech and infrastructure is totally different than EV tech and infrastructure. It's like Analog vs Digital

[@matthijsbonefaas]

Apart from Volvo there is no ‘giga-casting\ used by Stellantis. Which is odd considering it is an European firm from the Italian Indra Group which produces the Giga Press.

[@yulusleonard985]

You need to design your car for gigacasting. Volvo use something they call SEA "Sustainable Experience Architecture" that can be shared with other Geely cars. Or like tesla focus on each factory to produce specific cars.

[@freeheeler09]

In 2018, the cost to the world economy from air pollution was 3 trillion US dollars per year. One study suggested every degree in temperature rise will lower the world GDP by 12 trillion US dollars. We are seeing thst electrifying everything we can will actually save economies significant amounts of money each year. Ok, concrete, steel, shipping and air flight will be harder to decarbonize. But, we can improve the world’s economic outlook significantly by decarbonizing what we can now.

[@j55555j]

35% of electricity in the world is produced from coal, in China over 50%, and in India over 90%. Coal pollutes the air more than gasoline and diesel, and is currently the single largest air polluter in the world. Electric vehicles currently become co2 neutral at approximately 150,000 km, these are the facts. Electric vehicles are certainly the future, but they are also big polluters right now, only the people who advertise them don't want to say that. When we take into account the production of lithium, which pollutes the environment a lot, and the disposal of old batteries, things only get worse. Make no mistake, I'm a fan of electric vehicles and will definitely buy one in the near future, I just want to say that they're still not perfect. 

[@ommanomnom]

How about everyone riding motorbikes and being able to pollute less and sit in less traffic. Electric vehicles are a scam. The lithium and minerals required to build one is 500x more of tonnage and carbon dioxide needed to build and transport them. Only for them to be abused in traffic and use battery for no good reason and require replacement. They are only part of the solution. Its not possible for a 100% switchover. There needs to be more solutions, such as motorcycles, mopeds, bicycles etc. Real innovation is needed. Not paperwork and fines that ultimately make all of us poor

[@cheekeongchan6605]

​​@@j55555j From the data you hv read, did it say at what mileage that ICE vehicles will be carbon neutral compared to EVs?

[@jims8828]

That study was obviously idiotic: where would that lowering of world GDP by 12 trillion USD for every degree in temperature rise come from? From the reduced heating needs?

[@vinniechan]

The problem.with European EV is there is no domestic player in the battery tech Even north volt went under

[@nigelgrimmett851]

In Europe we have little coal and a declining nuclear industry. We have solar and wind but this will never be able to achieve 100 % renewable. This programme of net zero is driving us back to the stone age. Expensive energy here in Europe - we will be anhilated by our global competitors.

[@ronz7046]

Man will never fly !

[@gagamba9198]

Europe still has a lot of coal (UK, Germany, Poland, Czechia, Romania, Ukraine, Russia) but no will to use it. And closing coal-fired power plants means reduced capacity to use it domestically. In the first half of 2023 the EU produced a total 138.7 megatons of lignite and hard coal. 83 billion tonnes of hard coal is still in the ground in Germany and 21.1 billion tonnes in Poland, and likely more as geologic exploration and development of improved mining technologies ceased due to gov't shift to green energy. Ceasing fracking in UK and EU certainly hasn't helped. If I were a young, ambitious European with skills, I'd emigrate. _'This programme of net zero is driving us back to the stone age.'_ All part of the plan.

[@bbplayz5596]

I never reply to comments on yt, but this is a ridiculously false comment. The only remotely correct sentence is the first one, but even that stretches the truth. Yes we have no coal, and yes the nuclear industry looks like it's failing, but total research funding in nuclear power is the highest its been since the 90s. Solar and wind can definitely power 100%, given enough storage, and energy storage prices are trending downwards very steeply. Wind and solar even have the benefit of complimenting each other, with wind being better in winter, and solar better in summer. A lot of net zero changes across both the energy industry and industrial industry are actually more economical than current non NetZero methods, so I'm not sure why u see this sending us back to the stone age . And finally, high energy prices in Europe are not a result of NetZero energy, which is generally half to 33% the cost of NG/coal/oil, it is the fault of the over reliance on international NG, mainly Russia, that dictates the high energy prices. An example in the UK is the fact that 98% of all recent energy prices have been set by the cost of NG, which is about triple that of offshore wind. Please think before you comment next time instead of spouting nonsense.

[@cheekeongchan6605]

​@@gagamba9198The M$M is not showing how the other superpower is replacing oil, gas & coal with wind, solar and hydro and racing to meet its "green" agenda. They just pour $$$ into the infra.

[@paulc6766]

@@gagamba9198 If coal is your answer then I think you deserve to go back to the stone age.

[@pontuspaulsson3435]

Most of harmful particles comes from tires and brakes... These are not less of a problem on electric cars. A normal ice cars us actually inhaling more particales than they let out. Thay are lije vacuum cleaners.

[@JonNewell]

At this point in the game, the solution is getting further away. These legacy manufacturers have had 20 years to get their $hit together. Downsizing, amalgamating and continuing to do the same thing will derive the same result. They really need to abandon ICE and focus on EV’s, improve production efficiency and crawl out of the hole which they have dug.

[@lepotdefleur9906]

A lot of countries grid are not ready for every vehicles to hook up yet, heck some even have brown out in very cold or very hot time.

[@fahmad7194]

Last nail in the coffin of us buyers

[@atlasbandit]

I live and work in Germany, i do not know a single coworker or neighbour with an electric vehicle. You people need to wake up, EV are a scam. The only EV i have is my E-bike 😂. My long trip car is an Audi S4, my daily is usually my 125cc Honda Forza maxi-scooter (2L/100 km). WTF would i do with an EV 🤷?

[@calumgannaway869]

Sam, you keep saying it's more expensive to make cars in Europe. Does this include Tesla in Germany? Does Tesla make a profit on its cars from Germany and how are they priced compared to Chinese cars.

[@yulusleonard985]

They use BYD battery, you should add their shipping cost.

[@maxthemagition]

You are missing the obvious, that electricity is not free and needs to be generated. For each watt used another watt needs to be generated, so today there is not nearly enough electricity generated to drive all electric motors as well as heat and light every town and city. The generating capacity would need to be increased by at least ten times the present production as well as increasing the distribution network. Today over 90% of all electrical power is generated using coal, oil, gas or nuclear fuel and that is supplying only about 5% of all vehicles. The demand for electrical power is increasing exponentially. EVs work today because they are small fry, really a rich man’s toys. It is like the quest for man on Mars which is estimated will cost $66Trillion at least. You can guess who will pay for it (Joe Public), and who will gain from it (Musk and the like). Basically we are being suckered by con men and salesmen. Soon the truth will dawn on Joe Public as to the real cost of EVs.

[@andyfreeze4072]

its a straw man argument because your information is way out of date in so many places. If you want to pedal crap from 5 yrs ago your entitled to live in the dark ages....by your self.

[@maxthemagition]

@@andyfreeze4072 @ There be the answer…..crap being spread all over the internet by vested interests, Truth and reality is the causality. But truth and reality always wins in the end.

[@raygan777able]

How about ramping up on renewables?

[@rawnet101]

I’m sorry but it’s you who need to wake up. Your information is way out of date and largely irrelevant now we have the data. And you ignore self-generation of solar and battery.

[@dvader3263]

The gasoline or diesel fuel for just one ICE car or truck can cost from $2,400 to $5,000 or more per year. With two, three or more vehicles for one family, spending $7,000 to $10,000, $15,000 or more per year in fuel for a family is crazy. Then add oil changes and a lot of other maintenance for ICE vehicles. $10,000 per year for only ten years is $100,000 for gasoline. 20 years of fuel costs will be much more than $200,000 with rising fuel costs. Solar panels and battery backup are much cheaper, and they'll last a few decades. No wonder so many people are poor and struggling. They can't do math and they have no critical thinking skills.

[@markyaremko8031]

the gas station was a Petro Canada -- none of those in Europe

[@kevinW826]

See how Sam cuts and pastes what he wants?

[@dmf37207]

I hope Europe and China go 100% EV’s. More petroleum for the USA should result in lower fuel prices for our ICE vehicles.

[@filippoleombruno8624]

Lower fuel prices equal Lowe profits, which causes less production and higher costs

[@cernhutch]

Lower fuel costs for ICE cars? Rearranging chairs on the Titanic…

[@imrytebeehyneu]

ICE cars will go extinct. EV now rules

[@NoiserToo]

Hehe, I like your thinking, the only hitch is that our allies in the EU will destroy their own economies if they hitch their future to their competitors, the Chinese.

[@ronz7046]

Yeah, not the way it works !

[@bootneck401664]

Who is implementing these fines?? And how are they enforced?

[@nicholasglade4572]

Poor Europeans. We dumped Biden and many other clowns in the United States so we will recover. Europe may collapse.

[@paulc6766]

The US has a lonely future.

[@alexishart1989]

Lol, that old fella was your last hope. Trump's election spells the end for US legacy automakers. President Musk will look after Tesla, though, so you'll always have that.

[@luapkirner5331]

We did not dump Biden. He did not run for President again. I’m thinking you should go back to school and try to get past the 6th grade this time.

[@NoiserToo]

@@paulc6766- I would rather be lonely than under Chinese colonization, how about you?

[@NoiserToo]

@@alexishart1989- the West and Japan will return to ICE and hybrid technology with Tesla comprising about 15% of the overall car market. China alone will go all EV.

[@michaeljohnson4975]

Depreciation on my 2015 golf gti. About £500 a year. Why buy an EV for £40,000 with depreciation in 3 years of about £20,000.