Elmore Leonard's Writing Tips | WRITING ADVICE FROM FAMOUS AUTHORS

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

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[@opollitico]

I'm often cautious of prescriptive writing advice, but honest - these seem pretty spot on

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Me too, for the most part I agree with him. I'm definitely wary when people say there's a right way and a wrong way though. You can't say that when everyone creates stories in a different way, about different things for different audiences!

[@tommorrisey3999]

Elmore and I taught at the same writers' conference many years ago. During the opening night book-signing, we exchanged copies of our latest novels and, at breakfast the next morning, he told me he'd read the book and loved it. Okay, his actual assessment was (holding up my book), "Tom! This is good s__t!" I pointed out that the novel in question violated every one of his rules, and he said, "Yeah. But you knew what you were doing."

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Having Elmore Leonard describe something you wrote as 'good s__t!' must have been pretty great! Especially knowing he read it all in one sitting by the sounds of it. The fact you were both teaching at the same conference yet your approach was totally different demonstrates that there's many ways to write a story, and many ways to master writing. Glad to hear he didn't take his rules too seriously. Always a good thing I think. Thanks for sharing that experience with us! Appreciate you stopping in.

[@film_magician]

Hey dude. I'm a screenwriter, and i'm loving your videos. This play list. Huge help. Took Gaiman's masterclass too. your summary of him was great

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you so much! Gaiman has such good advice for sure. Really wholesome and useful. I've always been interested in learning screenwriting just as a fun creative outlet. Would you have an suggestions for where I could start?

[@writeitdown2013]

oh wow these are good! I have to agree with most of these. I feel like Leonard's attitude is that a writer shouldn't try to make the reader notice that the writer is trying really hard.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Yeah that's my reading of it too. I like my hand to remain invisible if at all possible, so I agree with most of what he said. Sometimes though, I sounds like I'm writing and I'm okay with that!

[@writeitdown2013]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting yeah that's a good perspective to have about it

[@ADSmallAuthor]

I agree with you on the minimal description regarding places and things.

[@transformationgeneration]

In the 4 minute area - you're advising against adverbs but making clear you're here to lift writers, no squish them...THANK YOU :)

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Absolutely! We do not bash anyone here, just because I don't like something, or use something, does not mean it's any less valid! It's just preference🙂

[@chuckwieser7622]

'Just don't use adverbs to create meaning.' That's the of the best pieces of piece I've heard on the subject. Thanks And the other piece of advice which I live by is don't use adverbs to 'tell' the emotions.

[@opollitico]

I also agree with the said thing. After a while, it just flows

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

You don't even notice it after a while, which for me, is what I want when I'm reading. I like being absorbed in a story 🙂

[@heimerblaster976]

Well done good Sir. Good advice.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you kindly!

[@premkumar-dp4ub]

Thanks for the valuable lesson.

[@NicoleWilbur]

Awesome video!! Totally agree with your thoughts on “never use anything but said” and “no adverbs.” I think there are good reasons for these rules but there are always scenarios where it makes sense, as long as its done intentionally!!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

That's a perfect way to put it, using stuff intentionally. You've got to know the rules so you can break them on purpose! 🙂

[@robwin0072]

Hello, I really enjoyed the video's content. The segment #6, “Suddenly” at 05:50, particularly stood out to me. It brought to mind Edgar Allan Poe's unique style, notable for his subtle approach to foreshadowing trouble. {Poe didn't write post signs of trouble ahead.}

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you! I agree with that, don't tell someone you're going to surprise them right before you do it, just do it!

[@opollitico]

"get a person in your opening" hahahaha! as always, your videos are entertaining. I laughed out loud right then

[@Riurelia]

7:33 For some reason, this advice reminds me of a story I recently wrote. The story is in English, but the dialog is in the characters' native language.

[@TheMagicalGateSeries-ct7mz]

Hey, i'm a young adult/children's writer. this really helped me loads

[@Fisherpriest]

I used work as a musician in Detroit. We won an award in 99. Elmore Leonard was the presenter. Pretty cool getting handed an award from Leonard!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Wow that's awesome! I'm twenty or so years late, but congratulations on your award anyway 🙂

[@brendancoulter5761]

Question, I agree never use Exclamation points in prose, but what about in dialog? What about in arguments? Seems off to if characters are bearing theory souls to each other or tearing each others heads off verbally but wont speak with enough force to justify an exclamation point. I am not sure exactly what dialog should or shouldn't have an explanation point but for an example, Luke in ESB saying "No, no, its not possible." Seems off with out an exclamation point.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I think (personal opinion) it's okay to use them for dialogue, but I'd still try to keep them to an absolute minimum in order to preserve their effect. Sometimes you'll have to use one, but where possible I prefer to try to create that meaning using the character's wording or gestures or other context clues if at all possible. That's just my preference though.

[@jakeraac5544]

Nice advice. I gotta catch up on the videos Kieren of the west. Your content be of the appreciated.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you 🙂 I found this comment pleasingly whimsical!

[@jakeraac5544]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting Had to look up whimsical.

[@Tardis216]

Good video. (Like you mentioned already, no need for an exclamation point.) As for he said/she said, you can avoid it if the conversation is well written so it is already clear who is saying it. I almost never use it when writing dialogues. edit: I trim he said/she said to the bare minimum: only if there could be confusion about who is uttering that sentence, for example if more than two people are talking to each other.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Absolutely, my thoughts exactly :)

[@thelostgirl101]

Good tips, thanks.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks for watching!

[@authordetroit482]

I agree with alot here. One author said dialogue tags are not really needed at all. He wrote a book without even using he said or she said. Good writing flows.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I think that's definitely possible if the writer is skillful enough. Always interesting to hear about different approaches!

[@ADSmallAuthor]

I try and describe a character through actions, for example describing a character reaching the top shelf with ease, infers the character is tall.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I like this approach, it always seems smoother than me. The description is part of the story this way, rather than a brief diversion from it.

[@MeredithPhillipsWrites]

Totally agree on the description bits, whether characters or scenery. I usually have a picture of a character in my head as soon as the appear on the page, so if my mind gave them blond hair and freckles, that's what they have even if the author says otherwise. This is also probably why I'm t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e at writing descriptions. Do I really need to describe the foyer of a house?! It's foyer, let's get on with it... Oof that last piece of advice is a hard one. I know exactly what he means, but implementing it is another thing altogether. [1:05 I'M CACKLING.]

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I agree most with his description bits too, I also see characters how I want, which leads me to ignore (or at least not absorb) what description the author does give me. I'm always just like 'what's HAPPENING, I don't care what they're wearing!' 😂 The last one, I probably half agree with, some of my favourite of my own lines definitely sound like writing and I'm alright with that...

[@Tardis216]

'If it sound like writing, I rewrite it.' That's a good one.

[@t.d108]

New to you. Thank you. Hope you’re still going stRONG❣️

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks for being here! I'm still going for sure :)

[@ShawnWeekly]

I'm struggling with #7. I writing about two groups of people who are at odds, and one of the challenges is they actually are having problems communicating,. As a person who code switches in conversation, I often see this as a major problem. However, I am not sure if the experience will be missed in writing.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I'd say something like code-switching is legitimate characterisation and somewhat exempt from the rule (which is not, in fact a rule at all, just Elmore Leonard's opinion of course). I would imagine by this tip, Leonard might mean the kind of patois that Hagrid from Harry Potter has, for example, where it's all 'Ello 'Arry, 'ow are you?' etc. Repeated phrases and stuff I tend to find useful for giving character. People don't speak perfectly in conversation, and fill in gaps with meaningless talk at time. I like to try to capture that 🙂

[@ShawnWeekly]

​@@KierenWestwoodWriting That's helpful. I literally started highlighting all the areas of dialogue to come back and make a decision on how I should proceed later since it's only the first draft. Then my procrastination set in because it was driving me nuts. My WordPress crapped out, so I literally wrote a new blog engine from scratch to avoid, writing. SMH. I still haven't decided on what direction I'll go in. Thanks for the insight.

[@L.DacreTynan]

Nice recap of both Elmore Leonard's style, and your own by comparison ~ Here is my 'call and response' to your wonderful video. 1> "Never Open with the Weather" Unfortunately, EL never wrote Cli-Fi... Although it is a great point. If you have only just joined the realm of writing, say... in the last 200 years, then it's a point that needs definite consideration. For my Sci-Fi/Cli-Fi wip I have drafted an opening with the weather...BUT more so about how the weather impacts my MCs future... 2 > ...oh and it happens in a PROLOGUE! Short, sharp, and not so much about info dumping as it is about exposition. I'm also aiming for 'exceptional' with this as a baseline. 3 > "said" helps for facilitation, as noted... but, if there are only two people talking in a scene - leave it out altogether?! ELBOW JUMPERS rule of thumb, if you want to use words other than 'said,' don't use descriptive action for the same line of dialogue. One or the other... 4 > ADVERBS.... This is likely the most powerful point here, KW brings out - if you need to cut word count start with ADVERBS! 5 > Exclamation Points - I've already used 2 during this commentary. THAT is how easy it is to overuse. 6 > SUDDENLY... it all started making sense. Suddenly the Zombie jumped out.... from behind the sign that said CAUTION ZOMBIES! 7 > REGIONAL DIALECT - Several of my characters could suffer from a saturation of this form of characterization if I'm not careful. 8 > DESCRIPTION OF CHARACTER - I have had a few 'younger beta-readers,' really want description front and center, whilst fellow writers can world-build internally enough to get away with this. 9 > DESCRIPTIONS OF PLACES AND THINGS - I'm a real fan of having something specifically mentioned for ONLY one of several reasons: * Foreshadowing * Character (important for 'why it matters' processes) 10 > LEAVING OUT THE PART, READERS SKIP ... (left this bit out, got too wordy) This is a great point - On editing, proof reading and structure, the big question for me is..."Does a story start too early?" BONUS POINT - "Sounds like writing" This is a great point, KW - One of the best ways to work this out, record yourself reading your WIP as if you were doing an Audio Book. These elements stick out the moment you here them, often for a whole range of reasons but essentially because they 'sound' like writing. Thanks KW! Great video!!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Ah of course, I think cli-fi has to be exempt from rule number one surely?! You make some great points here, I've never tried reading work out loud like that (besides when I've read it for videos) perhaps it'd be a good idea to get into the habit. I'm kind of surprised at how much everyone agrees with these tips to be honest, I did think they were quite specific to _his_ writing and that wouldn't be suitable for everyone, but so far mostly people have sided with him. All of them are just opinion though of course 😊

[@L.DacreTynan]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting There is a 'universality' to several of these points, beyond his own writing. I would be interested to see if you've seen any "rules" that seem to either, 'break' convention or only apply to one writer - perhaps due to their style? (Plot twist.... this is what you thought Elmore's rules may have been??)

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

@@L.DacreTynan Sure, considering the amount of discussion this one has prompted ill for sure find other writers’ tips and see if there’s any weirdness out there ☺️

[@barter56]

Great shirt, great video. Said is like punctuation, I like that too 👍

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you! 🙂 That's definitely the approach that works for me anyway.

[@yvoncormier9762]

Prologue in The Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison is the only one I've read which works.

[@opollitico]

Suddenly? Wow. Now I think about it, the extracts that include this could be improved in terms of subtext and dialogue

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

A period of quiet, or calm, slow writing before a surprise can work, I try to do that, then keep the surprising thing really short, like a bump in the night! 🙂

[@ecofictologywithlovisgeier]

"Stories are about people...not drizzle" 😂😂 I can always count on you for a giggle The bonus piece of advice, "if it feels like writing, I rewrite it" is I think so much harder than it sounds! This comes back to what I think of when I hear the term "author voice". I used to be obsessed with "finding my voice" because I felt I was too visible as the author, like you say, in my writing, and I needed to fix my author voice somehow. Changing from 3rd to 1st person POV helped kind of reassign the personality in the prose to a character, but that is a temporary fix I think! But I did end up rewriting my whole book to be in 1st person present to avoid the sound of my own voice in my writing 😂

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Yeah I agree, some of my favourite things I've ever written I think definitely sound like writing. I actually have the opposite problem you know, whenever I write in first person, I just say 'I, I, I' all the time and find it has no personality at all, but when I'm able to write in third it feels more like 'me'. That said, I always talk about making myself, as the author, as invisible as possible so that the reader can't detect my hand directing the action. It's kind of like when you start breathing manually and can't go back to automatic again! :)

[@kb2vca]

But I wonder... I would think that your author's voice is not necessarily a "writing voice" (in the abstract). Your "voice" as a writer is YOU and a reader reading your work recognizes you in every piece you write (assuming you are using this voice). I don't know that the writer needs to be invisible so much as someone who observes the world in their idiosyncratic way (The comedian Steven Wright or Robin Williams) AND who can then express their observations in ways that force the reader to either immerse themself in the story IF that was the goal of the writer OR compels the reader to think critically about the world the writer holds in their hands for the reader to see. (compare say, Virginia Woolf to Brecht)

[@LisaCupcake]

I always read prologues. Some of the best books I've read had them. I'm not sure why people hate them.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I haven't read all that many of them and I don't personally hate them at all. While I think the can be prone to info dumping by less experienced writers, I still don't think they deserve the hate they get. Never say never 🙂

[@opollitico]

I'm intrigued by the last tip. Anyone else?

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

This is the one that aligns with me the least. Some of my favourite things I've written definitely 'sound' like writing. My reading of this one is 'avoid purple prose', but again, there's a time and a place for everything I think 🙂

[@reubenshuppHorrorAuthor]

If it sounds like writing, get rid of it. This is the best advice of all. Your writing should sound like a story you tell to your children or to a group of friends. This is the advice I always read before I rewrite my writing..

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Me too, it's advice I don't like facing up to sometimes, but it's never steered me wrong 🙂

[@laurabesley7095]

'If it sounds like writing...' I suppose this refers to the prose sounding like 'the writer/'s voice' rather than narration or the character's voice. What do you think?

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I think a writer's 'voice' can be really immersive and part of the story sometimes, but I'm sure if it's too strong it could detract from immersion. My interpretation of that tip is that he's talking about stuff like 'purple prose' and kind overdoing stuff. It's the same kind of spirit as 'kill your darlings' I think. That's how I took it anyway 🙂

[@laurabesley7095]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting That makes a lot of sense. I recently read a review of Hamnet (which I haven't read), but the reviewer said it was 'too well-written' meaning the beauty of the prose detracted from the pace of the plot. I thought that was something worth noting.

[@nehukybis]

I use "asked" as a dialog tag for questions because '"what are we doing for dinner?" Sue said' just sounds strange to me. Said has a certain finality to it that feels inappropriate for questions. I'm struggling with having a (two paragraph, first person) prologue for my SF novel just to give a big picture view of the situation. Only because the setting is so odd, both in physical environment and culture I feel like people are going to need some context to figure out what's going on. The habitat the characters live in are unique characters unto themselves, and I can't rely on familiar tropes to ground the story. It seems like you can take the "no prologues" advice too far - as with lot of fantasy fiction these days that throws you into a fight scene before you have any idea what the stakes are or even who is fighting who. As far as "if it sounds like writing I rewrite it" - I love the booming, rolling style of Melville or Lord Dunsany. They really sound like writing to me. On the other hand, most people who try to mimic that old timey literary style end up sounding less like Billy Budd and more like The Eye of Argon.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Asked! I completely forgot about that word. I use that too, that's a great point. Totally agree that the description points are suitable for Leonard's writing, but definitely cannot be universally adopted. I don't think it'd be possible to write something like SF, as you said, without either a prologue or considerable description. I'm somewhere in the middle on the last point. While I know what he means, at the same time some of my favourite things I've written definitely sound like writing...

[@clintoreilly]

Good advice

[@danielbroome5690]

Using said 99% of the time makes something like shouted or screamed have a higher effect emotionally.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

That's a really good point!

[@alexiacerwinskipierce8114]

Haha, you were about to say "grabs them by the balls" but saw you stop yourself just in time 🤣

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

:D

[@gregahunt]

good vid

[@aikalabe7719]

Couldnt disagree more regarding the word "said" and the use of adverbs. Said is a verb, and verbs can be used to describe a particular action or a general one. If you were a robber and you broke into a house at night, would you walk to the jewelry box or creep to it? Similarly, if you were a scientist and someone asked you how the monster got out of the lab, would you merely say what you thought or would you theorize aloud? These words provide a depth to the interaction between the two characters that "say" cannot. Changing the word said can be harmful when your talking verb forces the reader to go back and modify the way they read the dialogue - in that case you need your dialogue itself to accurately reflect the speaker's tone. Regarding adverbs, i feel the reason they are disliked is because they are often redundant and unecessary. Imagine if you were having a conversation with someone and she told you that her father was shouting at her angrily. How does the word angrily improve your understanding of her description? Humans rarely use adverbs in our own real-world speech, and in your written dialogue it's likely that you'll never see an adverb in between quotation marks, but they can be extremely helpful in descriptions of objects or of the emotional state of a character. Take a flag, for instance. If someone wrote that it was "flapping wildly," it lends a sense of chaos to the scene. A band of horsemen with a banner that is flapping wildly is much scarier than one whose banner is flapping gently in the wind. BUT, you say, why not say the banner is simply "thrashing" in the wind? No need to add wildly, right? It's because you want the adverb to help to illustrate the emotion of either the subject or object of the verb. Not every verb is going to have a perfect transformation like flapping to thrashing. What if someone's swimming, and you want to illustrate how desperate they are to get away from a shark? Which sounds better, "john was swimming as hard as he could, but the shark overtook him with ease." Or "john stroked desperately, but the shark overtook him with ease." ? If an adverb works, it works, and if it doesnt, take it out and figure it a different way to write what youre trying to write. The only hard and fast rule of writing is to know what's working and what's not.

[@TomMcHugh-l4v]

04:56 But I like to laugh at my own jokes...

[@robertkapler6227]

Somebody should have told JK Rowling all of this. I'm pretty sure she's violated all these rules