Elsha vs Korvold vs Vannifar vs Anje cEDH Gameplay

[@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG]

We are back from our short hiatus and we are planning on picking up the 'season' structure we used previously now that we are back on a normal recording schedule. KZbin is disabling the poll feature so we are going to test out using Twitter's poll system to decide the Fan Favorites, so if you're interested vote here for your favorite commander from this episode: twitter.com/CasuallyMTG/status/1279069595647774730

[@KBvanderWalt]

Hey, love your content. Just a thought, I rate Anje would be more accurately pronounced with a "Y" sound instead of a "j". It's how we pronounce it in South Africa.

[@Fromaginator]

Jordan: *starts packing up* Jordan: *starts packing up*

[@bobby45825]

He's got that strong scoop game.

[@ianflannery4291]

Joseph, as a long time Elsha pilot I think you would enjoy grape shot. It is a cleaner way to "end the game" and also has utility mid game

[@NicolBolasED]

That deck meter at the begining isn't very useful in terms of the info it provides. Most decks you've ever featured say the same thing on the meter

[@boisterousbiologist7227]

this

[@bobby45825]

They could use a more elaborate and detailed chart for what they believe the numbered rankings mean and why a deck fits that rank.

[@eamonworden4369]

I left a comment last video Bc they had some that were missing either 1 or 0 bars and no one appreciated it 😢

[@NicolBolasED]

@@eamonworden4369 I am sorry for you.

[@yujiro424]

I'm pretty sure that is just a rough representation of how much they are skimping on expensive cards like og duals, imp seal, diamond, and monolith.

[@anjunakrokus]

19:22 slight mistake: it is mentioned that Bill replays and exilesSquee which drains the table (using blood artist), but blood artist only drains on dies triggers and not exile. If he had more than 40 cards in his library he could have just used his commander or found another sac outlet such as viscera seer, thus it is not a gamebreaking mistake. Always love to see you videos though and I am hyped for the next videos

[@samuelwilt1314]

If you have food chain out, you can cast Squee, cast Korvold and choose Squee for Korvold’s ETB sacrifice. Once you choose Squee, exile Korvold to food chain returning him to the command zone, and then the sacrifice triggers on Squee, and without Korvold on field you can skip drawing while getting dies triggers.

[@andrewsheiman8574]

@@samuelwilt1314 no, you can't avoid the draw.

[@mn6334]

I was going to say the same thing. Really all it would take, though, would be having a creature in hand that's a sac outlet (like Viscera Seer) and you'd be able to do finish it off properly. I'm sure he has multiple creature sac outlets in the deck that he'd eventually draw into while looping Korvold. EDIT: A quick skim through the decklist says any of V. Seer, Carrion Feeder or Walking Ballista would have won at that point.

[@greatbrandini3967]

@@andrewsheiman8574 if Korvold isn't on the field, you don't draw. His ETB doesn't cause you to draw, it's his static effect that draws cards.

[@anders0111]

What are you all talking about, he literally casts a Vicera Seer at 15:10

[@Closer2Zero]

Holy hell, a deck wins that *chose not to include thassa's*. What a relief. Happy to see it

[@jlbrooks74]

Yessss!

[@MekanikKommandoh88]

Thassa’s Oracle has quickly become more of a Black thing. A lot of Blue decks that don’t run Black have gotten rid of it because it’s a dead draw most of the time.

[@nikos731]

16:01 This is probably a mistake from your side as well. In this exact situation (Adam with exactly 1 mana open) it is preferable to let Vanifar resolve and then destroy her in response to the equip trigger. a) You let Adam spent more mana that way and more importantly b) Adam had open mana for Veil of Summer. Veil stops Pyroblast from countering but not from destroying.

[@revelmonger]

Little mistakes like this are extremely easy to see post game, but really hard when trying to manage everyone boards at a table. Just little value based power plays like this are what moved me from yugioh to magic. (On top of the positive and friendly community)

[@xwolfy666]

Honestly, I would have still countered the cast myself. Fierce Guardianship is a pretty savage "Got ya" card. And if that had resolved, it would have had a huge impact on the game. Too much risk for my taste.

[@heikothedwarf]

VISC-er-a seer, not vi-SCE-ra seer! Ahh. Okay I’m over it. Excited y’all are back!

[@monkeybench]

Plunge into Darkness is such a disgustingly good card. I bought a collection years ago and had 12 of them in a jank box that I found recently 🙃

[@griffinlathrop]

Lucky man. Best thing I’ve ever found in a jank box is my spark double.

[@_jordaank_4970]

Missed you guys! I’m hyped to watch

[@Rewwgh]

Excellent video, I've been interested in all of these commanders for some time now. Excited to see all of them perform.

[@bismyan1019]

What is up with that Dockside at 17:00 ? Is that a cut-out with a Chandra's Spellbook frame?

[@meesvanderheide8498]

i'm always so hyped when i see you guys uploaded again!

[@KnighTiggles]

8:00 - Why doesn't Jordan target the Cursed Totem that's stopping Anje? (I assume he knows what he's doing, but I'd be curious to know why)

[@DolphinDingus]

The totem is also stopping other players at the table (namely the Vannifar player) from going off. Had he known Elsha was going to combo off, he might have destroyed it, but had the game lasted a little longer, he probably would have hoped to draw an instant speed artifact removal. By Force, being a sorcery and costing most of his mana, prevented him from doing much after the totem was gone, which left a clear path for Vannifar.

[@Winterhe4rt]

@@DolphinDingus I mean IF he had a way to go off at all he would just use x=1 for by force to solely destroy thetotem. At this point he just wanted to slow the game down obv.

[@Good1Chance]

I love the explanation at the end! Very informative and I agree wholeheartedly.

[@alexanderkoval1481]

Great choices for commanders represented here. All the commanders are pretty equal in terms of tier strength but have great variance in how their decks play and go for the win (combo vs. value vs. winconless). I'm just always happy to see Elsha and Korvold repped and even happier to see wins that don't use consultation/oracle lines. :P Keep up the great content!

[@CrunKiiiD]

such good commentary and great overlay and great visibility of the cards

[@hectormorales4090]

Love it! So glad to see you guys back!

[@TonyCook7]

Win can less decks . Thank you for sharing that. I truly appreciated this video!!!

[@geromeadamson5592]

Since no one answered the question of @Nick Biggelaar I need to ask again!! Whats up with that Dockside at 17:00 ?? Where is that frame from?

[@emano3203]

Can somebody explain why did Jordan not destroy the cursed totem with the by force at 8:30?

[@xFiZeekx]

At 11:16 I'm not entirely sure how you get infinite storm? Could you please explain this.

[@MrInvisibleJ]

I had never heard of the concept of a winconless deck, but that is how I built my Tayam cedh deck. No specific win con, just a bunch of good cards that work together.

[@Blasmophet]

Got my playmats in the other day, they look great! Keep up the good work

[@Highwang]

Yo what is up with Jordan's Dockside Extortionist on game 2? It looks like a Chandra Spellbook frame, but I don't recall there being any alts for it.

[@Sliver_Boi]

It's a special alter that was made for a different deck

[@Oneslicknick]

New drinking game. Every time he says infinite, you take a shot.

[@retrowaffles5442]

I really adore the explanation on elsha's line. A big part of what kept me away from cedh was the community assumption that all you ever do is win with thoracle, seeing a deck that goes without thoracle and is still considered optimized is very interesting

[@patryn605]

I'm curious how you guys handle passing priority. It can get tedious to actually pass on every single cast and trigger, but I imagine priority is extremely important in cEDH games. I find in my meta people like to hang back to see if someone else will respond which is obviously not ideal. I'm curious how other play groups handle it!

[@revelmonger]

at my lgs we use one of those little bells as long as we hear 4 rings you can play a new card. and its kind of fun until we get shit down because "We aRe bOtHerInG The dUnGEONs aNd DrAgOns PLAyErs"

[@moonknight4217]

In my LGS, we went clockwise from the priority player. If you passed, you opted out, and had no interaction until it either resolved, or something new went on the stack. Very frustrating tbh, because the person nearest to the problem player never knew if the others would bother to counter spell or not, so they were usually down resources unless they made deals and such

[@revelmonger]

@@moonknight4217 that's how it's supposed to be done isn't it.

[@ryanfitzpatrick3008]

@@moonknight4217 that's just standard priority lol

[@Winterhe4rt]

@@moonknight4217 yeah no shit dude... lmao... xD

[@MageRooster]

Regarding dead cards like Thassa's Oracle and Lab Man, I agree... but I find that Lab Man Jace provides value from card draw while it's out. It can even be an emergency 'get through mana flooding' tool with the mill.

[@kingginger3335]

Whoa infinite turns with Ezuri+Sage of Hours. That's amazing!

[@thehitchickersbro1]

How did I miss this game, this is amazing

[@Withkittens1]

Exiling Squee does not trigger blood artist though.

[@AidanWR]

Wow, there was pretty much no interaction that first game

[@kingginger3335]

How was Bill able to drain everyone with Blood Artist? Artist says "when it or another creature dies" and Food Chain says "exile target creature". Was there something I missed?

[@schwammrobertschwammkopf2004]

I'm new to commander and i have a question: Two players (Korvold and Elsha) have lands on their starting hand, which do not seem to fit their commanders color identity. Does this rule not apply to lands? Or are they considered colorless since there are no actual mana symbols on those cards?

[@kingginger3335]

A better and faster loop that can be done in the Elsha deck is Grinding Station, Lotus Petal and Underground Breach. Everytime you sac Lotus to do a damage, you will mill 3 which you use to cast Lotus Petal.

[@mitchellhouser9890]

YES! You're back!!

[@jbelowheaven3607]

welcome back, boyos!

[@jeramiahbarclayjr.7839]

Do you guys post your D&D sessions online/KZbin? If you don't, can you?

[@JujuInFlames]

I’m a little confused on the korvold food chain deck with the inclusion of blood artist. The blood artist triggers with deaths but the food chain exiles creatures, how does the blood artist trigger?

[@samuelwilt1314]

We can exile Korvold to Food Chain or bounce Korvold with Temur Sabertooth in response to Korvold’s ETB trigger. By doing this, Korvold will not “see” the sacrifice trigger and won’t trigger a draw, but will still sacrifice a permanent you control. Prevents decking out and uses Korvold as your sacrifice outlet

[@cristianprado8559]

yo don't actually win by exiling Squee and Blood Artist since the creature has to die to trigger BA and FC exiles the creature. Korvold is no good either cause you have to draw a card and if you run out of cards you die, but I'm sure my man had a sac outlet somewhere there like a Viscera Seer or something. glad to see you back guys ❤

[@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG]

That was mainly an error in narration not gameplay. I do specifically remember that impact tremors wasn't exiled

[@cristianprado8559]

@@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG yep, I know it was, just making it clear to avoid confusion to new players or anyone who didn't get or knows how this deck wins (since we didn't get to see it on camera either)

[@scottwc999]

It’s been too long, so excited to watch

[@matteobagni1235]

What sleeves is Bill using? Cheers great videos as always!

[@Lord0fHam]

what is that altered dockside frame?

[@snorri0411]

please tell me you're gonna put the D&D stuff up on KZbin as well?

[@dannyboy5531]

Thank you for the content!! :)

[@justinmm2]

Shouldn’t By Force have fizzled when it no longer had 4 valid targets because the Top was back on top of the deck?

[@SpawnofHastur]

If a spell loses a legal target, it resolves doing as much as it can. Since there are still valid targets, it blows the 3 artifacts up.

[@cmdrsausage]

Strong disagree with brainfreeze being a value card, good game though, surprised anje didn't pop the totem and give it a go when all the sol rings got destroyed

[@saxlaxdm10]

Commander ft. 2019 Magic Was a Mistake 😂

[@PersonOfBlah]

8:28 The top would actually go back to Joseph's library, as the card says to put it back on top of its "owner's" library.

[@darbymckilkannoncaid3279]

You're back!

[@Naozwc]

Hi I love your videos but I don't have the money to buy me into cedh could you maybe talk about budget in an episode of your understanding cedh series

[@zedisilluminati9449]

Many cedh players and playgroups are very happy to play proxies, as they would usually rather play against the player than their wallet.

[@chronics23]

Could you deflecting swat a pact of negation upkeep trigger to target someone else??

[@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG]

The Pact trigger doesn't target, it just happens on the owner's upkeep, so there isn't any target to re-direct

[@chronics23]

@@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG ahh thats right, man if only!

[@DarkEinherjar]

No, because the upkeep trigger will always apply to the Pact's controller, regardless of target changes. The only way to force the upkeep cost on someone else is to make them the Pact's controller. Unfortunately, with Pact of Negation, if that control-changing effect comes from another spell (for example, Sudden Substitution), the new controller can simply change the Pact's target to that very spell, so once that has finished resolving, the Pact will fizzle because its target is gone, and they'll have to pay nothing.

[@Sliver_Boi]

Would be hilarious though

[@Sajanis1]

Not that it really matters but isnt Anje On-Yuh not On-gee?

[@seanschumacher8462]

It's closer to On-gee. Russian lettering has a ж and not an я which would give that similar gee sound instead of yah sound.

[@michaeljamieson3297]

I don't know Russian, but I thought Innistrad was more Germanic and Slavic than Russian. J being a 'y' sound makes sense there. Also, I just love the name Anje (like Anya) a lot more.

[@anokosecret9963]

Hey Joeseph and the crew! Welcome back! Are there any cards you're looking forwards to getting your hands on from M21?

[@Sliver_Boi]

I really wanna try the new liliana in my nath discard deck.

[@anokosecret9963]

@@Sliver_Boi that leads to something i've always wondered: why are symmetrical discard used? i've always hesitated in using effects like the new Lili's +1 because discarding cards feels so bad

[@Sliver_Boi]

Symmetrical discard is usually preferred in multiplayer because of the fact that it turns into a 1 for 3. You lose 1 card, but you get rid of 3 cards on your opponents side. I run thoughtsieze and inquisition of kozilek just to have a couple cards to manually rip win cons or important cards out of peoples hands. But normally I'd rather cast a blanket discard enchantment or walker because even though I have to discard if I can't dump my hand fast enough, everyone else gets hit by the same problem too. Also helps you not feel bad if you single target discard one person and then the next person wins because the other one couldn't stop them anymore. At least with mass discard everyone's in the same boat.

[@anokosecret9963]

@@Sliver_Boi i think i understand, you definitely do tip the value in your favour in a multiplayer format, thanks for clarifying!

[@TheSPARTANusm]

The Secret Cervix plus it helps if you have a decent draw engine going and you can just dump the cards you don’t need while whittling down your opponents hands.

[@suntitan4419]

I like how dragon ball z is on the tv on Jordan’s playmat

[@gavcanflip]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Anje is pronounced like "Aunya"?

[@praius7960]

Do you know what Bill took with the Praetor's Grasp?

[@DarkEinherjar]

Probably Sensei's Divining Top.

[@ODIRGO]

Maybe Tassa's Oracle, bacause I think this is the first time I don't see the card in this channel, haha.

[@morph4977]

I always skip promotions but you marked them so I'm gonna eat them. Thanks.

[@revelmonger]

I don't understand why Jordan was attacking with Anje instead of rummaging to try and make a land drop. Hold Anje back for a blocker and rummage in response. If someone understands why he was doing this let me know. Also knowing that Sensei's would probably be activated in response wouldn't it be better to save the 1 life from confluence? On the second game Jordan might have had a reasoning to madness Fiery Temper on his turn, but generally with instant speed interaction like that there are not to many cards that make it worth not just holding onto it and madnessing in response to removal targeted at anje or before the turn rolls back to you.

[@XoRiZleroX]

In game 1 cursed totem prevented him from activating Anje, so the best thing she could be doing at that time is pressuring the life total of an ad nauseum player. I can't answer for game 2 unfortunately

[@revelmonger]

@@XoRiZleroX ah I didn't see the cursed totem get played. That's make sense

[@breezychips1411]

Sorry, did you just say... holding up mana for pact of negation?

[@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG]

Holding it up meaning not sacrificing the single use treasures so I could pay for the upkeep trigger if I needed to

[@DarkEinherjar]

Exile Squee? You mean sac it to Viscera Seer, right? Otherwise, no Blood Artist triggers for you.

[@shadowclothes]

The by force would have fizzled (not resolved) as one of its target was not there On resolution.

[@enricus2479]

No, spells try to fulfill as much as possible when resolving, By Force would have to have no legal targets for it to fizzle.

[@forerealz]

Yay!! CCMTG!

[@FunnyPrankLaughs]

Watching these commander centric combo decks continuously swing with their commander is painful.

[@rexone9564]

I have Elsha, and korvold in paper. Asking me to pick is like asking me to pick a favorite child

[@DarkEinherjar]

Well, they won a game each, so you don't have to pick favorites. :)

[@TheSPARTANusm]

Korvold.

[@goldilock4199]

Sad games for Anje, was hoping to see her shine

[@TonyCook7]

That game 1 holy shit 😱😬🤯

[@josephs.4813]

It’s been a minute!

[@denisdionigidelgrande7961]

I like this higher power games

[@sk8Vegito]

Joseph can’t cast lotus petal and then use that mana to cast brainfreeze for 1 mana. Cards you cast from underworld breach have an escape cost. That’s not their mana cost it’s more of an ability, it can’t be reduced.

[@maxhaas5405]

i think he is just casing lotus petal twice

[@copperthief9454]

Glad to see games not ending with Thassa Oracle dark consultation

[@GosuD]

8:43 If im not missing something Adam could win in this moment.

[@charleybrett1663]

Cursed totem means vannifar can't activate

[@felipepereiragama8084]

Gameplay maravilhosa

[@razielthedamn4301]

Still could cast Pact to take one for the table.

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

I'm so confused by the win of that 2nd game. You say he exiled fyndhorn elves, a 1 drop, for 2 red mana. Then later in the combo you say he exiles the squee to food chain to get blood artist triggers when blood artist only triggers off of deaths. Am I missing something?

[@XoRiZleroX]

He can generate infinite creature mana and just cast squee from the graveyard sacrificing it to the seer on the battlefield draining the table

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

@@XoRiZleroX he can but they didn't say that, they said exile to food chain to trigger blood artist. They also said they got 2 red sacrificing the 1 drop. Neither of those makes sense.

[@XoRiZleroX]

@@TheMightyBattleSquid further in the comments he mentions that it is an error in narration, he also had impact tremors as an alternative to blood artist. Food chain reads that you exile a creature and then add x + 1 of any color to your mana pool use it only to cast creatures. He was able to use the 1 mana dork to tap produce a green and then exile it to produce the 2 red to cast squee and start the chain

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

@@XoRiZleroX oh mb I missed the comment (which I looked for before making mine) and misremembered food chain's text.

[@igenio96]

Vannifar is nuts!

[@bobby45825]

The only thing i don't like about most of these decks is a LOT of them focus on only getting infinite's, untouched setup in the beginning, and never playing blow out sweepers that could set other players back.

[@armoric]

You can't afford to blow your resources on a single player only to then be behind the survivors. If you play to win (which cEDH does), taking everyone out at the same time by having an infinite combo is the most straightforward and simplest way. It's not that the setups are untouched, it's more that it depends on which decks are at the table, and what their hands are like (less U decks there so less counterspells, especially the free ones, to punish attempts at early combos).

[@CeltiesSin]

Ahn-yuh.

[@artificium_]

You could've just targeted them with brain freeze if they didn't have shufflers

[@leudyrodriguez2488]

I wish you would use a Google form or a service like survey monkey instead of Twitter. I try to avoid social media as much as possible and it hurts when I don't get to be involved for not having that.

[@MegaBsterling]

Once you started your loop couldn't you have just used brain freeze to mill your opponents with that much storm and hold up interaction and pass the turn? Seemed like your combo had a lot of extra unneeded steps leaving you more points of interaction, even if the anje player had necromancy in hand the statistic likelyhood of him having tapped out on his turn and having an instant speed win during his upkeep is insignificant and the other two decks just lose in their upkeeps.

[@michaeljamieson3297]

You run the risk of them having something like an Eldrazi titan which would shuffle their deck back in. It's always better to win sooner if you can

[@dhov760]

Why would you ever swing Vannifar.

[@IngusRogeth]

COVID?

[@cardlivesmatter1566]

Game 1 couldn't he after making infinite mana just milled everyone out with brainfreeze?

[@obfn9456]

The By Force should not have destroyed those artifacts. When you have a card that says "destroy 4 target artifacts" and one of the targets becomes illegal as it was moved to the top of the deck, then the entire spell fizzles, so none should've been destroyed

[@Amascut]

I’m pretty sure that’s not correct. Spells make an effort to resolve as much as possible, and only would fizzle if *all* targets are illegal. By Force was successfully cast for 4R, targeting 4 artifacts. One goes away, but was still targeted. The other three are still valid targets, and By Force would still be able to resolve on them, destroying them. Making a single target of a spell illegal does not fizzle the entire spell if it targets more than one thing.

[@waltercardcollector]

Why couldn't you play Elsha? Pact of Negation doesn't require you to hold up any mana.

[@kingginger3335]

You should see my Elsha deck. I think you'd be impressed

[@Twitchmaster69]

i would of just pact of negation his food chain? go out on your own terms.

[@guisseppimelon8224]

And essentially...

[@randalljohnson6787]

Viseeraseer

[@frycook6396]

Heads up its pronounced anya.

[@danielspencer8477]

Anje is pronounced anya

[@zardcoregamer]

cEDH is so boring... I don't get why people would play it for fun with friends.

[@charleybrett1663]

If you find it boring, why do you watch videos of it on youtube?

[@zardcoregamer]

@@charleybrett1663 Well I think I have the freedom to check out at whats given on KZbin and due to the fact that I love Magic I usually keep looking for nice gameplay. But since cEDH is more or less pay to win, it does miss the key parts of good, friendly politics magic that I enjoy and want to see. I can't possibly know what the gameplay brings until I've seen it. But these are different worlds for me and I'm not saying that it must be boring for others.

[@zedisilluminati9449]

@@zardcoregamer proxies are highly encouraged in cEDH, I don't see how it's pay to win. Also cedh in my experience has more friendly players than casual games because there's no feelbads

[@mauimallard154]

I really lose interest on seing this type of commander, all using same staples and expensive options just like it was nothing. I think i will never get invested on competitive huh. Is really boring to me like that...in all formats

[@SnorlaxHat]

... yeah no these are boring

[@CaptBackwards]

Oracle is such a boring way to win. Major dislike.

[@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG]

When did Oracle win in this video?

[@MekanikKommandoh88]

LOL Oracle didn’t even get played in this video. Joseph even went into why it wasn’t in his Elsha deck. I swear, complaints about Oracle are more annoying than actual Oracle ETB triggers.