Embracing Motherhood in the Age of Feminism | Louise Perry

John is joined by journalist and author, Louise Perry, for a conversation that unpacks the aftermath of the sexual revolution. In their discussion, Louise outlines both the technological and ideological foundations of the sexual revolution, showing its seismic, often overlooked impact over the last 70 years. They discuss everything from the birth control pill and the rise of surrogate mothers to the decline of romance and the feminist case for marriage.
Louise Perry is a journalist and author based in London, UK. She is a columnist for UnHerd, a featured writer for the Daily Mail, and hosts Maiden Mother Matriarch, a podcast about sexual politics.
Louise is the author of the landmark book, 'The Case Against the Sexual Revolution: A New Guide to Sex in the 21st Century,' published by Polity."
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0:00:00 Intro
0:00:36 Introducing the guest
0:01:07 What is the sexual revolution
0:05:17 Sex can be both a force for good and evil
0:11:39 How has feminism evolved over time
0:16:30 Freedom at the expense of children
0:20:06 The debate around surrogacy is about only the rights and desires of adults
0:24:41 If you don’t care about children, you don’t care about the future
0:27:22 The case for having kids
0:31:12 Sex selective abortion and feminism
0:32:08 The psychological underpinnings of the west’s rejection of children
0:36:26 Men always regret not spending more time with their children
0:37:42 How we’ve strayed from the normal human lifecycle
0:40:21 What does the sexual revolution mean for the happiness of women?
0:44:28 The Me-Too movement and the problem with consent
0:46:14 How has the sexual revolution affected men?
0:49:58 Polygamy is the natural human state
0:52:52 Consent does not mean ‘good’
0:56:13 The 1960s will be the seen as the new reformation
0:57:18 Convincing feminists to get married
1:01:29 Where has all the romance gone?
1:02:55 Social media and pornography
1:08:25 How have feminists responded to your work
1:11:31 Armed with permission
1:12:50 Advice for raising children
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Conversations feature John Anderson, former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, interviewing the world's foremost thought leaders about today's pressing social, cultural and political issues.
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Website: www.louisemperry.co.uk/
Podcast: / @maidenmothermatriarch

[@Foxie770]

As women, we need to start having these conversations with other women. Especially mothers. I wish that my mother, an aunt, or any other older woman in my family had explained any of this to me when I was a girl and young woman. It would have saved me decades of heartbreak, confusion, frustration, and struggles with infertility. A parents job is to be a parent, not a friend!

[@nikobellic570]

Guys need to step up too, with proper socialization from male relatives and peers. Guess I need to stop blaming society and give the best I can to those around me

[@user-nc8hv7jb2m]

society needs to respect women and their dreams...whatever those are like being a mother or not

[@rahulkaushal1983]

Won't work - most kids or teens won't listen and would think that their mother, aunt, or maternal figure is brainwashing them into patriarchy. This is definitely a discussion that needs to happen - but with added noise from all sources - media and social media - this discussion cannot happen in isolation where minority voices or different experiences would be brought forward. In the current society - group think is prized and any deviation from the group is seen with extreme negativity.

[@rahulkaushal1983]

@@nikobellic570 Guys are stepping up - they are slowly leaving society. You can see that in the rising numbers of single childless women in the western world. If women are better than men and don't really need men - who are being told this since they start school - there is no reason for men to fix something they are only creating problems for by their mere existence.

[@sofiabravo1994]

@@user-nc8hv7jb2mmotherhood isn’t a dream it’s a duty

[@Vegaswill714]

Louise Perry is saying things that should have been said long ago. I truly hope she starts a movement, the world needs more people like her.

[@Peterdemcsak]

You are completely insane.. Why didn't you Nazis go to North Korea??

[@bobbiebrynt1]

We are all the movement

[@jimmymelonseed4068]

The movement has been going for 2000 years! Christ taught us all about how properly love each other.

[@ministeroffice9251]

"Pregnancy just doesn't create a baby it creates a mother and father!" 💕

[@grannyannie2948]

Before abortion this was true 😢

[@robertholland7558]

@@grannyannie2948there never was a “ before abortion “ Abortion is as old as pregnancy itself!

[@ministeroffice9251]

"The whole system is a Ponzi scheme of the STATE controllers!" "History is cyclical not linial." @57:00 The Course of Empire - The Savage State; The Arcadian or Pastoral State; The Consummation of Empire; Destruction; and Desolation...

[@robertholland7558]

@@CH-qc1zt I’m not I agree with that, I would lean towards that both pregnancy and abortion are equally dangerous, and your argument of nature is false. Not really knowing how many pregnancies went full term in centuries past it be difficult to draw valid conclusions. Even today a fair percentage, beside induced abortions, of pregnancies do not go full term, naturally!

[@fitzroywilson7271]

I would say that having a baby creates a mother, due to the bonding and nurturing process but that’s not necessarily true for men. Fathering is quite different from being a sire. A lot of men sire a child without being a father.

[@AnthonyP73]

This discussion is deeply affecting, particularly speaking as an adoptee but also someone horrified at what's happening in the world today. It's heartening to see people who are still prepared to discuss issues in a calm, holistic, sensitive and well-reasoned manner.

[@banta-pd8zj]

Are you so horrified do you baulk at the idea of bringing children into the world?

[@zebrafinch12]

Yes look what's happening

[@isabellapeck8892]

Beautiful conversation as a married mother born in 90s I too feel supported and seen by these discussions coming to light. Thank you and for the futures of our children .vey well interviewed 👌

[@benphilips9918]

Absolutely inspiring. What an extraordinary woman. A beacon of wisdom in a world that is spinning off course.

[@nikobellic570]

I didn't hear voices of wisdom like this until recently. Just been swimming along in the mainstream current, distracted by bad advice and desires. Red pill

[@Peterdemcsak]

No, this woman is a deranged Nazi.

[@smallsignals]

Honestly, I could listen to Louise Perry all day. She articulates her thoughts so cleanly.

[@teresam5199]

🙄🙄

[@smallsignals]

@@teresam5199 ?

[@Wizo_0]

Totally agree.

[@Nightsaberban]

Same!! Have you ever heard anyone articulate their thoughts cleaner than her?!

[@lisareiter5368]

And she’s lovely. She exemplifies what an elegant lady might be. We don’t see many like her nowadays.

[@ahdoeknogh]

She was a breath of fresh air. I would add that, in addition to the pill, the ability to see what's promoted on the TV and what is being taught in the schools has changed people's views of what's desirable or unhealthy behavior. We are two generations into it now. Hopefully, we can all get back to sanity without going too far in doing it.

[@InsightGav]

A genuine female intellectual. She's a kind of female Douglas Murray. Deep knowledge. Kudos to her and well done John once again in your interviewing style.

[@karisbellisario619]

With more faith than Douglass I think

[@frankbrennan1619]

She is nearly always worth a listen to, but rather than her being ANY kind of a so-called ''female intellectual'' which is pretty laughable in her case & particularly when all she is really is a first world feminist grifter still assiduously taking great care not to truly hold to account her fellow first world feminist sisters who only ever want all the authority of a man, all the privileges of a woman & all the accountability of a child....

[@karisbellisario619]

@@frankbrennan1619 I also did not consider her an intellectual. She seems well researched in this one area, but when she talked about still identifying as a feminist I had the feeling she sort of missed the point. Distance would be good given all the non-sense now associated with the term rather than simply equal status before the Lord and a case of equal opportunity in society with voting and employment.

[@frankbrennan1619]

@@karisbellisario619Of course she still identifies as a so-called ''feminist'' & ALWAYS will do to her dying day, I expect no less from her as a first world feminist grifter & that's completely her choice, but why on earth would she do that for goodness sake, when ALL she's done in recent times is speak & write about all the havoc & misery that first world feminism has reeked upon ALL women & men, their children & grandchildren over the last seventy years?

[@kwazooplayingguardsman5615]

@@karisbellisario619 she is trying to save it as a label but you cannot save it, for its central mantra flies in the face of humanity. To be a feminist is to be against human civilization.

[@sharonalbanese8084]

I love listening to Louise Perry. She is incredibly articulate and insightful, and as usual, John is an excellent interviwer. Thank you both.

[@leonharrison800]

Perry lost the plot. Japanese youth get it! They are simply living solitary lives.

[@teresam5199]

You think this is articulate? 🙄

[@ThriftingSquirrel]

I wish this conversation had been around when I was a teen/early 20s. Very important for young people to hear.

[@acepilot37]

This is without doubt one of the most important conversations regarding human relationships that I have ever heard. Louise Perry is magnificent in explaining views which are fundamental to us all.

[@ZappaZombieWolf]

As an empty nester, now single.... Letting my sons explore the world is scary for me.But so necessary for them...

[@DrJohannesHartl]

Louise Perry is auch an inspiring and wise person. 👏🏻

[@karrishannon]

What a fantastic discussion, thank you John and Louise.

[@rachelbassett4942]

Beautiful necessary conversation, as a woman who wasn't able to conceive due to depleted ovarian reserve. I'm will always be heartbroken, I agree with everything Louise says ❤

[@deemen7132]

You think You got it bad, I'm 39 in own my own home, great shape , well traveled,Can have kids, but cant find a worthy woman to save my life!

[@JakeyOhsogood]

@@deemen7132 How did you make it to 39 being THAT unaware. There's absolutely no way that you could ACTUALLY conflate your personal short comings with her situation. If you want a "worthy" woman you have to be a worthy man.

[@tooter4u271]

What a pleasure to listen to two wise, knowledgeable, sane, well intentioned people. Such a contrast to the kind of conversation we are normally exposed to.

[@ntm3970]

It’s interesting how Louise describes her friend who thinks grandparents have no obligation to their grandchildren as being much more progressive, it’s bizarre that generosity amongst family is not seen as progressive or left wing at the moment? I’m diaspora in England from a country in the global south where it’s unheard of for grandparents to not feel obligated to their grandchildren, but I find that my more westernised grandparents in England don’t see it in this way because they’ve adopted modern liberal values, whereas my grandmother on my other side who is a bit more tradition would never have considered that doing something for me means she’s given up on something. I suspect this is also the reason so many children and grandchildren don’t feel the urge to care for older family, why care for someone who never cared for you? I certainly feel much more of a pull to care for my gran who loved me unconditionally than my other grandparents who were more western and saw it as a chore.

[@ntm3970]

@@karlschreiber-woods6743 good point

[@manfrombritain6816]

i'm a UK native and i've never heard of nor encountered a grandparent who wasn't obsessed with their grandkids

[@xiaomoogle]

My dad has never met two of his grandkids - my brothers children. He’s met my sisters but doesn’t interact with them. He’s deeply selfish and once our mother died (I was still a teenager and my siblings young adults), he married an Italian woman and moved abroad. Living for himself he called it. It does happen.

[@eurekahope5310]

​@@manfrombritain6816I suspect the difference between being obsessed with your grandchildren and feeling obligated to care for them is along the lines of occasional babysitting, generosity, and family activities, versus providing childcare, being directly involved in education, taking children on vacations, and reducing the parenting load in a tangible way. I worked with immigrants who typically lived in multigenerational families. Grandma stayed home, cared for the kids, and helped make the meals so the parents could work. Perhaps this was a financial necessity, but it certainly created a special bond with Grandma and allowed the household to have two incomes. Admittedly, living with in-laws might be difficult for many marriages and boundaries could easily be crossed. It isn't a perfect system, but multigenerational family bonds are very important.

[@lucindabreeding]

Vice media produced a documentary about The VIllages, a massive retirement community in Florida. When they asked the residents about their grandchildren, they grinned and said they were available by phone, but weren't very hands-on. The Villages is overwhelmingly politically conservative. I don't know id the conservatism is related to the resistance to being hands on with their grandchildren. But I was surprised at how openly the residents laughed at not offering much childcare to their adult children at all.

[@stevesmith3990]

Louise is a great thinker in this increasingly insane world. Brilliant.

[@janine5063]

Brilliant. Thank you John and Louise for such an intelligent and coherent discussion. The world is starving for this goodness and truth. It was truly inspiring and encouraging.

[@grannyannie2948]

I was so happy to see this video come up. I have been wanting to hear a conversation between John and Louise for ages.

[@bobbiebrynt1]

This was lovely to listen to as I sat here doing my daughters hair. She’s 7. I wish I had this level of insight in my teenage years and early adulthood. However as I matured my values definitely aligned with this philosophy, much to the credit of my father, not my mother. Things need to be thought about in this level of intensity and seriousness.

[@KD400_]

Ur daughter needs both mother and father. I hope she has a father or a masculine figure guiding her

[@steveodea4884]

Thank you so much for this conversation, I will be sharing it with my teenage and young adult children!

[@andrewbaldwin4454]

"if I knew in advance what it would be like to have it all, I would have settled for less."

[@hinteregions]

I do like that. Pity I won't ever get a chance to use it 😁

[@HelenEk7]

I have seen snippets of this interviews but was hoping to find the whole interview. And here it is. What a great conversation.

[@jolantaursprung5020]

wonderful insights, deeply emotional; Louise is contrarian and profound without contempt for ideas conflicting with hers. John's interviews as always at the high end of enjoyable and inspiring

[@polska6996]

Im 24 with a job and girlfriend of 6 years all this is terrifying i feel like i dodged a lot of these problems but still live within the society so that sucks. The only one for me is that i would have kids now but there so many things holding me back mostly the things you guys talked about. Probably gonna have to wait til 28ish to start. I also find that parents and the older generation are telling us were young and have time go try everything. When my personal instinct is to start a family now work hard and have fun later.

[@benji-pj4dp]

U should have 2 kids by 28. Make sure you have all your kids before your mrs is 30. It's healthier for her and the baby

[@castirondude]

Yes younger is better. Also getting married is better than cohabitating.

[@SamuelDiaz21]

Girlfriend of 6 years??! Um, what exactly is he waiting for?

[@thiacari]

I'm 35, my life plan as a woman was 20-25 travel, learn and experience as many things as possible, 25 find guy, 26 lock choice, have 2 kids by 30, 30-35 get more professional knowledge, and now at 35 I own a big company and can focus on improving the world, as kids are at a school age. But I also realize I have more money, network and learning skills than the average person, so this plan was possible. I have never had to make choices with finance as my priority, which is very fortunate.

[@SodiumSyndicate]

@@thiacari To produce genius male children, the mother statistically has to be under 25, which is during her peak fertility years.

[@murciadaniel]

What an amazing woman Loiuse Perry. A voice for real feminism.

[@danielnyambi4425]

Many thanks for such a great interview. There was so much wisdom, authenticity and transparency in the conversation that will surely enlighten the lives of so many people. It is worth sharing widely!

[@quietpiehole]

I think that another factor is that a lot of millennials in NA (myself included) were raised in a financially successful home that is far more difficult to achieve today than it was then. That leads to us feeling not ready indefinitely because we never reach what we view as being ready. It has just recently occurred to me that I can't wait for that because it's never coming.

[@quietpiehole]

@@NSOcarth I don't think a lot of people realize they're waiting for something that's not coming. I know I didn't. Once I realized what I was doing, I let it go. I'm engaged, getting married this year and we'll be trying for children right away. The last generation's financial prosperity and home ownership may be out of reach but that's no reason to put life on hold until it's too late. Seeing things how they are doesn't have to cause despair if you can take stock of what you do have and appreciate. We have a good place to rent and each of us stable jobs above min. wage and we can make it work, perfect situation or not. It wasn't my intention to sound hopeless.

[@quietpiehole]

@@NSOcarth Interesting but I'm thinking we're talking about two different things. Edit: To clarify, you are talking about fear of a threat, I am talking about wanting to provide the quality of life for your child(ren) that you grew up with.

[@skylinefever]

@@NSOcarth Well, how many women are willing to marry the man with low earning potential? Cause and effect are reversed here.

[@jasonm7684]

This is a good point, i think for some people it could defo be the case.

[@castirondude]

Having all your ducks in a row is a mirage you will chase your entire life. Definitely don't wait for that. The biggest advice I would give you is to avoid getting in too much debt. Stay away from expensive cars, houses, education, if at all possible. There are times where borrowing money is warranted but do it very cautiously.

[@TonganJedi]

I define romance as a deep, intimate, and loving commitment to another.

[@L._S._DE]

We don't have to say "chivalrous" or "gentlemanly", I would call it just respectful, or appreciative, being aware of the other person's dignity and value :) 53:00-54:00 You are absolutely right, that responsibility is the keyword. It is our responsibility to not only act legally, but in awareness of the other persons' dignity and vulnerability.

[@jrd33]

Chivalrous or gentlemanly imply treating women differently (usually better). Respectful or appreciative is unisex.

[@alexhuffvn]

Fantastic interview! I hope lots of young people and parents hear this.

[@Grace17893]

God bless you guys and we need mothers like crazy now; God bless you guys again and again

[@brigittecourson]

I'm so glad to see women refusing motherhood.

[@basswindu6121]

Louise is a treasure ❤

[@allenbrady8083]

John Anderson is such a brilliant interviewer 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@lamarzimmermanmennonitefar5269]

Thank you for sharing this wisdom.

[@katherinescott7528]

What a wonderful conversation! So thoughtful and refreshing!!!

[@lucdrouin4653]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson, for this opportunity to meet Mrs. Perry.

[@sisiphas]

Thank you both for a wonderful insightful discussion, and thank you, John for consistently interesting podcasts.

[@kaylenehousego8929]

The reality is that the " nest egg " of superannuation being safe, is actually no longer true. Minor point in a stunningly worthwhile conversation and I thank you both for bringing it to the public square .

[@kaylenehousego8929]

your final question is so important John , please continue to ask it where ever you go .

[@skylinefever]

Yes, many of these things baked in the assumption that the number of laborers would only grow.

[@raskolnikov1461]

Love her mind. An amazing woman ❤

[@semperfidelis6943]

Bravo Louise Perry - such a brilliant conversation…

[@gordonicus4637]

Wonderful conversation. Thank you.

[@jasminaina8707]

The Main Problem is and always will be is that men can marry , make 3,4 ,5 children and live them without a father and aften times with nothing at all and no one really forcing them to stay in the life of that child and really forcing them to be a grown responsible adult. That is why the Birth Rates are Falling first and foremost in asia and West Europa.

[@etrestre9403]

I love her!

[@dannylee778]

that gives me hope for the next generation of young families and society generally thanks Louise and john

[@Tree_a_Boar]

you and i must have taken away different points form this conversation, i could understand you being hopeful if they had actually talked about actions being taken to actively change society but all they did was talk over the problems. a problem with no solution is still a problem

[@Luke_wait_for_it_marengo]

this was perfect, we need more of this.

[@Taylor-bee]

I can’t wait for her next book. ♥️

[@andrew1717xx]

Her discussion is towards the direction of meaning. Perhaps, most disagree with Pearl Davis (JustPearlyThings). However, she is also following the signal towards more meaning by calling out the lies that seem to enable the problems Louise is talking about. The questions that follow are; 'Are there lies we tell ourselves, thus each other? What lies (if any) are leading to this confusion that is feeling like a decline or cultural change? Do we all have the same abilities and resources to address the possible problems?'

[@oldmanwithers4565]

People say they can't afford to have kids. That's rubbish children are not that expensive in pounds. They are very expensive in time and that's what people are not willing to give up.

[@skylinefever]

Indeed, it is very time consuming to properly raise a child, and not everybody can expect a good ROI on the time spent.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Time and money

[@victoriah9421]

My monthly childcare bill would disagree with you.

[@rebecca.medicineeagle]

One of the best Louise Perry interviews I have ever watched. A+ ❤

[@Atomb]

Her book is a must read.

[@petahagan1782]

As usual John. Superb. I listened and thought maybe my biggest battle will be grandchildren with the internet. My boys both only had phones when they left school. They are 30 and 28. Now that battle would b enormous. Also the battles with girls is one I have no experience with. All in front of me. Thanks again for making me think!

[@kwazooplayingguardsman5615]

girls are so much harder, boys will follow a stern but caring father in the end but women is a harder puzzle.

[@jaynoii]

This is fantastic and deeply impactful!

[@lewisadkins6175]

Great to hear someone talk sense. Brilliant listen, made me feel better I'm not alone in how i see the world.

[@ChrisOgunlowo]

Brilliant, beautiful, nuanced. A challenging but necessary conversation. (I’ll buy the already published book and restlessly wait for the next).

[@khansvirtualdiary]

The Topic and Title chosen is noteworthy and remarkable.

[@wetlazer]

It's interesting that at certain points the camera pushes in on her, the framing is constantly changed. This was done after this was filmed. It's done for added emotional impact. Not a judgement, simply something to observe.

[@alphacause]

Listening to Louise Perry dissect the problems with modern culture reminds that unfettered freedom can induce the most stultifying of unhappy states.

[@Foxie770]

The Declaration of Independence was about a freedom to worship God, build a productive ETHICAL society based on the fundamental institution of the family. It was not about “every man for himself” hedonism. The founding fathers even warned about a populous that was not connected to Hod and purpose.

[@rorytribbet6424]

An interesting comparison is the concept that restriction breeds creativity. This is a well known phrase but it is one often used by the most famous film composer of all time John Williams. We perform better while operating under a set of strict rules.

[@dumdum8880]

This was a great conversation.

[@heavenboulevard]

Awesome episode, thank you

[@sunnylife7934]

What a lovely lady and brilliant too.

[@divestedpowerrangergang3481]

I loved this interview thank you for sharing.

[@dragonite87]

I'm very socially liberal, however I just love the fact that two people can have an intelligent conversation. It's so rare to see in this day and age, whereas it's all about trying to destroy your opponent. I don't know whether I agree with Louise's general world view, however she does make some good points.

[@allisonleighandrews8495]

Haha oh hello opposite me! I have reactions like this all the time to really great interviews with people who lean left. It’s awesome we can share this space!

[@WhizzingFish12]

I think it all comes down to balance. Being completely controlled by society is a recipe for misery, but having complete freedom is as well, as a life with no responsibility towards others but only oneself means never really growing up. Endless adolescence? No thanks.

[@searose6192]

15:33 Louise, you must sit down and *have a discussion with James Lindsay* about the physical body being an impediment to freedom. His work on the gnostic roots of all of this is spot on. You would have a GREAT discussion.

[@martin5504]

An intelligent conversation on this subject is rare. Thank you very much.

[@Foxie770]

28:22 Regardless of “house prices” you already live in a house. Babies don’t take up space, they are attached to mom 24/7 for the first two years. And I promise you, children do not need (or genuinely want) stuff, lots of room indoors etc. they are best raised outside. Move out of London and live in the countryside where your kids can enjoy a real childhood. People have become so disconnected, shallow, and self-obsessed. It’s shocking to me that in my short lifetime, people have changed so significantly.

[@lucindabreeding]

Whether to have a child, how many children to have, and where to have them, is the single most significant economic decision a woman will ever make. And more and more, it's one of the most significant decisions of the children's lives. I will never undersatnd people who think and act as if motherhood doesn't have tectonic economic consequences. It's just dishonest.

[@lorrilewis2178]

@@lucindabreeding Amen.

[@dicerevo]

@@lucindabreeding you cannot on one hand voice the importance of motherhood (it should be parenthood as fathers are imo as important, especially in later years) and on the other hand promote the importance of autonomy.

[@SamuelDiaz21]

@@lucindabreedingchildren are not burdens, but instead blessings.

[@SMSmith-qx6oc]

I love this conversation 💖🙂 I also really love the chairs😍

[@derrick9635]

The most extrodinary amazing person to me is my mother.❤

[@mohamedali2858]

There come moments for the people of truth when they think that they are crazy, because of the many rudeness and trust spoken by the people of degeneration.

[@nickosc88]

Of all the great political conversations and dialogues that we are having now - I have to say that this one has broken my heart the most. Young men and women "DON"T EVEN HAVE THE LANGAUGE" to describe the pain that they suffer from indulging in false hook up culture. Adults sacrificing the well-being of the young for fleeting pleasure. A culture engaging in suicide. We have been saying for decades that because GOD has been removed from the picture then all of this follows. Pray for our world.

[@bplayerr1]

Most men cant even partake in hook up culture, yet are blamed for it....

[@gumdeo]

It's a death cult.

[@zephyrr108]

unless you convince hundreds of millions of your sisters to do the same... society is done.

[@grannyannie2948]

Desire to have children is highly genetic. The genes of childless women will die with them. Only the genes who favour having children will survive into the next generation.

[@stigcc]

They do not need to be convinced, really. We just need to make them feel safe and loved.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

​@stigcc Lol...women do not feel safe or loved...or respected hence the emergence of feminism to ensure they can be self sufficient

[@jonahtwhale1779]

Patriarchy do you mean? Who is it that needs to make women feel safe? Is it other women that are going to protect women from the harsh side of life - fires, floods, assault etc - or do women expect men to risk their lives to do that? Who is it that women expect to make women feel loved, provided for etc? Other women or men? Who is it that is expected to risk his life to make life comfortable for her?

[@grannyannie2948]

​@@jonahtwhale1779As I suggested Darwinism will sort that out. Those who inherit the earth will be the children of parents who formed stable committed relationships and had children. The rest won't matter in a couple of decades. The big problem that now threatens is the decision of many western countries to ignore falling birthrates whilst continuously importing immigrants to replace generations unborn. In Australia the last census shows that half the people who are voting are recent immigrants. So are we still a democracy? The future belongs to those who show up (get born) Mark Steyn.

[@brunaa.2279]

loved it very much! what an articulated woman

[@elfiee-maria1965]

Media and social media have both participated in our downfall and in such a short time too!

[@4rthurK]

I was one of these young people she refers to. I even thought VHEMT was a virtuous movement. It's difficult to be patience with people who end up justifying the attitudes they project into the world via this thinking. I see myself in them, and it took a lot of suffering (by my own hands) to learn. Making a change is difficult. Enduring it in others is yet another challenge. Much like parents, trying to relate to children. We were all children once, yet parents have such a hard time relating to them. Life is funny like that.

[@lambda4931]

Love her British accent! Good interview too.

[@jimoconnor4766]

Before you can engineer humanity you have to unmoor it from everything.

[@donhansen1175]

As an eighty year old I have seen happenings. I want to give some food for thought. 1. Women had more ability to use the power of their persons in my youth. ( Unless she gets up close as at a dance etc. she has much less power.) She gets less access now than in traditional society 2. Media was more supportive of "motherhood" and "living happily ever after". 3. new imported people reduce the importance of children to business and commerce 4. The economy is designed so that it is beyond the budget of most young men to have even a working wife 5. Working wives resent working and so are cranky and unresponsive partners. 6. The legal system does not support men's rights to children to the satisfaction of men on any breakdown. 7. Working with women in commerce teaches young men to view women as workers that you have to give a wide birth to. 8. Media allow endless very engrossing distraction so little initiative comes from men 9. Women expect men to make the first move. Men know that this will result in rejection and take rejection badly. ( The whole culture has always been messed up on this point as the natural biological way is for the men like little turkey gobblers to strut and the woman to make the first indication of interest, IF ANY, USUALLY NONE.) It is great to be eighty. Don

[@dicerevo]

I agree with all but 9. Most decent men are fine with rejection. Rejection is not an alien experience to men. What they are fearful of is prosecution. There are far too many examples of men being destroyed off of allegations alone without due process.

[@bplayerr1]

​@@dicerevotrue about #9. And rejection today, aside from prosecution comes w ridicule and abuse unless you are within that top 10% of men women find attractive. Being an avg man today is like being on the bottom 5-10% of men 50 yrs ago.

[@bplayerr1]

Thank you for your wisdom! I commend you for using technology! #5 they are never happy, women today despise stay at home moms.

[@TheJosman]

​@@dicerevo nit really. A lot of guys do resent yoy if you reject them, specially when they feel that, because they were nice, they are entitled to your affection

[@juliagriffiths3291]

So enjoyed this

[@Foxie770]

33:49 Thank you for stating this truth! It’s unbelievable to me that people are so deceptive that they actually use virtue signaling and are dishonest about their real motives.

[@Marvellous328]

What a wise, warm lady that our society has lost for decades.

[@Guayaco56]

On lowering birth rates: "Modernity is spending more time with unknown people than ones you are related to" 🤔

[@mizz308]

There’s different opinions but I think serial monogamy is actually our species norm for the most part

[@jimluebke3869]

"There is more joy in giving than in receiving" Not to a faceless bureaucracy.

[@ShowRyuKen]

In response to John and Louise's discussion about the loss of lifestyle and loss of faith being at the root of childlessness (at immediately before 36:14): I largely agree, but wanted to make a few points. To look at lifestyle first: compared with even the emperors of old, we in the West live lives of unimaginable luxury. I mean, Julius Caesar surely did some noteworthy things in his life, but he never once snorted a line, ordered a takeaway delivered to his door, or had access to the astonishing amount of entertainment we have available to us today - to take just three contemporary pleasures that would have wowed the rulers of 99.9% of human history. Nowadays, we live a life so utterly different to that of even 100 years ago, it's startling. And addictive. I believe the biggest motivating factor for humans is convenience, and the second is pleasure. And we've mastered both. It's hugely gratifying but largely infantilising too, and I don't think this is talked about enough. And coming to the loss of faith in a common spirituality (in this case Christianity), I think this is an unfortunate by-product of us having become too sophisticated for our own good. Alas, the traditional religions of old just don't cut it any more. Louise's point about the coronation, for instance: I couldn't agree more - I watched it and it felt alien, something so utterly removed from everyday life. And sadly even the likes of Peter Hitchens, William Rees-Mogg (Jacob's father, not a typo) or Sir Edward Leigh can't offer any more intellectually satisfying justifications of their faith in Christianity other than "well, it's a choice - would you prefer to live in a universe where this was the case or not?" I personally believe there's something innate in each of us where we can fathom out a common spiritual code, but I don't think it's necessarily a well-developed enough instinct in most people for them to arrive at the relevant logical conclusions. Essentially, I'm saying I agree with this part of the discussion, but I think there's further exploration and elaboration needed on solutions to these two points in order to make any progress.

[@shotgundorothy]

Feminism wasn't "captured" by ideology. It always was an ideology. It is a belief.

[@EvanWells1]

Good job

[@mori.kurogawa7936]

It's good if we ask first what the fence is for before taking it down. It becomes difficult, though, when it turns out, the fence has no more benefit in modern times but people insist on it staying there JUST BECAUSE it has been there for a while.

[@DavidSpry]

Wonderful.

[@colinfoster7655]

some of the very best stuff on KZbin

[@lonewolf18650]

We made it just fine as a species without birth control

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

If the current generous boomer pension welfare is adjusted so that it is given in relation to those that are caring for their grandchildren & cut for everyone else but provides the ability to opt in to providing similar childcare to other close families, be they related a furtehr step removed, longstanding neighbours, family or community friends for further pension welfare would be a pragmatic reform.

[@messageweek]

A very interesting, honest and insightful conversation. Thank you. On a technical note, from a cinematographer, don't use cameras with autofocus. The focus varied between the person's face and then their hands, blurring the face in several places. Turn off the auto focus once manually focussed on the face of the person speaking, or use a cinema camera with manual focus. Hope this information is helpful for future video conversations.

[@karisbellisario619]

27:25 additionally John, they will arrive at old age not just without workers and a tax base, but without someone to hold their hand in hospice or the delights of grandchildren. Sad and lonely life.

[@grannyannie2948]

Well said.

[@bensanderson7144]

Euthanasia has been legalized in Canada so maybe it’s not so bad?

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Or family to put them in a nursing home and never visit

[@grannyannie2948]

@@bensanderson7144 And the legalisation in Canada should be a warning to other countries.

[@Anna-dp8lf]

I would not say this is an argument to have children. In contrary a parent should know that one day a child break free and a parent would be alone again. My Parents had two children and they are both in another countries with little chance of going back, same with the parents of my husband. It is sad that they are both seeing their grandchildren only on vacation or even once every two or three years.

[@karisbellisario619]

Thanks to the one willing to say, “the Emperor has no clothes”. You are sort of the female version of a Jordan Petersen.

[@robertholland7558]

Got to ask Jordan how he feels about there being a female version of him.

[@karisbellisario619]

@@robertholland7558 while I have not spoken to him about this given how he elevates both his wife and daughter, who is the mother of a grand child, and her message echoes his, he is likely to embrace whomever speaks some truth and wisdom with grace. Beats the blue haired shouters or the idiot men who want him to go to reeducation to keep his license. He has had a great many females on his podcast. Their messages are similar in a great number of ways: men and women are different in strength and temperament and vulnerability (with the possibility of outliers) and that children are better off with their biological mothers in intact heterosexual marriages committed and monogamous. the data is clear on that.

[@hinteregions]

Except she's coherent and in command of her subject, and not entirely self-obsessed 😁

[@grannyannie2948]

​@@hinteregionsGood point. Having written a book based on fairy tales that contradicted his theories, my comments got banned.

[@mariabosse6655]

Why would you insult her with comparing her to Peterson?

[@Quillette]

A great conversation! Claire Lehmann and Zoe Booth recently talked about similar issues on the Quillette Cetera podcast: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZqzi3eor9CanMU

[@maxwillson]

The first domino that will fall is daylight savings. If business owners started to refuse the time change, it will send a ripple effect throughout the economy and government. If you have true value in society, people will comply with someone else's time schedule. You'd see the government start to crumble over something as simple as time its self. If society as a whole decided to follow someone else's time schedule, the rule of law would crumble because no one would be on the same timeline.

[@colinpatterson5897]

Very interesting

[@hilarysummer2993]

I would say the State hasn’t replaced the father, but instead it has taken the place of the mother and forced the mother to take the role of the father

[@sarahfranco6802]

2:55, 7:00, 26:35, 29:25, 37:00-40:00, 41:30, 1:05:20, 1:13:40, 1:14:35