Emongg Reacts To "Pls Delete One-Shot"

[@TheBams_]

For me it’s how the whole lobby has to hide because a widow is in the lobby. I’m diamond 1/masters 5 and so many heroes instantly become useless because a widow is locking down the whole map by just existing. Hanzo can also one shot but it’s way easier to dodge his arrows than a hitscan. Also all my games where there’s a widow is often decided by who’s a better widow. One way to change her is to add a laser where she’s aiming like in cod so you know where she’s looking

[@BLACKOUTSSBU]

YES, this is in apex legends with vantageand needs to be with her in this game. I think another solution is just to bring her down to 150 health, that lets her be onshot to a lot of people

[@KindOldRaven]

@@BLACKOUTSSBU Like the first idea, don't think the health will do much though. If you can oneshot a 150 hero, the Widow is already too close to you basically.

[@BLACKOUTSSBU]

@KindOldRaven Torbjorn and ash could do something. Also if you just go two dive characters it would basically guarantee her death if she's 150 hp

[@yillowo]

​@@KindOldRaven introducing mei right click from acrosd the map

[@imsirnootnoot]

​@@BLACKOUTSSBU then she gets LW pulled, and bap lamp, and the tank rotated and all of a sudden the easy 150 widow is now has reposition and has her team backing her up. If your playing in metal ranks, yeah she dead. Metal player are afraid to turn around

[@nowi9776]

Theres no better feeling than seeing a teammate get one shot in front of you and your first thought being "Oh hell no."

[@nihili4196]

When your Mercy does "Get down Mr. President"

[@Arrivillaga_]

"I just wanted a chill round as Zen"

[@harm0ny_]

Walking out of spawn and watching your Ana hit the ground instantly is such a tone setting moment for any game. Like welp this is what we’re dealing with.

[@frankprovost]

the difference between a rein charge/dva ult is that there is a certain reaction time you have. with widow you either pray she's bad or you stay hidden and half the map is unaccessible

[@Moter.]

Yeah with dva you have about 3 seconds to get to cover and rein charge is more than that, widowmaker you'll probably die to as soon as you see her or maybe even before you can see her

[@its-tinyavocado]

Worst part not all heroes have good ability to move around the map easily hiding like Cree. So even that route is completely busted for some.

[@fateofsouls214]

But rein charge or D.Va bomb are both parts of a Tank hero and also not their main feature. Bomb is even a Ult that can teamkill on its own with the press of a button.

[@frankprovost]

@@its-tinyavocado imagine being a zen

[@frankprovost]

@@fateofsouls214 only in very low elo does dva bomb kill consistently, you have a lot of time to react and can easily protect yourself in most situations, which was the point of my post

[@Disappointed_Philosoraptor]

An immediate, untelegraphed oneshot in a game like overwatch where 80% of fights are decided by the first pick and 60% of matches are decided by the first fight (due to ult economy etc., stats are from OWL) is simply unacceptable.

[@TR-ju5re]

This^

[@dziosdzynes7663]

"uuhhmmm, no ur just bad, I'm a gold widow player and I know better, I can aim and I should be winning" 🤓

[@whoahanant]

You can always lengthen her charge and add a laser or red dot. A red dot would be a simple giveaway but also can be easily missed in the chaos that is Overwatch. At least giving ONE hint you're about to just walk into a completely silent forever charged shot. Making her charge longer to get to full charge also helps when people are pushing her in her face. Just nerf the charge and maybe buff her SMG so she at least has another option on top of that she still has her escape option of the hook.

[@Zyborgg]

To be the devils advocate here. If the charge shot is longer it would be hard or impossible to do grapple shot kills. Unless they made it so you could precharge a shot.

[@Dizzifying1]

@@Zyborgg You could always allow her scope to charge faster whilst midair?

[@Hylarchical]

just do the fortnite thing and add a glare when shes scoped in

[@sideeswipe]

I’ve been saying for years they need to add a laser where she’s aiming so there’s some sort of counterplay, if it ruins her and she’s dogshit then they can buff other parts of her kit cause besides her scoped shot her kit is pretty bad

[@shadycanopy15]

@@Zyborgg Good, grapple shots are annoying as hell

[@Zaneous_]

I love the “this wouldn’t be fun for the widow” when 90% of the time a widow is involved it isn’t fun for anyone else. Really hoping she gets looked at in a way that makes it more fun for all parties rather than one dominating.

[@BLACKOUTSSBU]

Just make her 150 hp

[@nealhodge8560]

@@BLACKOUTSSBUand remove grapple hook

[@BLACKOUTSSBU]

@nealhodge8560 heck no

[@Gabriel-zw6ez]

Wasent fun for sombra

[@error404webpagenotfound]

The reason Widow isn't fun to play against is bc there are little to no heroes to contest a good Widow now that Sombra has been thrown in the garbage disposal. Sombra and dva were the two best heroes to contest a Widow. Sombra got wrecked, and dva isn't the best to play in the current meta. When you do contest Widow with dva, it's often more difficult than just "kill the widow." If they're a good Widow they're in a spot that would end up as a trade for the dva (which is usually a net loss in terms of value) or they have good supports that actually peel for her when she is contested. I play a lot of support, and if my teammates aren't able/not contesting the Widow I'll either play hide and seek or play Moira and throw a dmg orb her way in hopes it will buy us some time to take map advantage. I try to help with the Widow when I can, but sometimes, they just run the lobby.

[@christhiantrevisan8084]

Personally, being one shotted is one of the most frustrating things in a game like overwatch, if I wanted to play hide and seek or test reaction time I'd rather be in Tarkov or CS/Val, not to mention the arrow that hanzo missed happened to randomly hit me

[@Trashloot]

This is such a strange take to me. Aim should always be the most important skill in any shooter. If you get killed before you could kill the enemy, you are simply the worse player. But i think there need to be more routes for flanking because so many overwatch heroes are bad at ranged combat. Widow shouldn't be able to cover all ways to her position from one point.

[@WiseguyPrime]

​@@TrashlootI could name probably 10 phenomenons in Overwatch that require more mechanical skill than a Widow one-shot, and all of those heroes don't get to play the game because of Widow. I think something like Hawkeye's focus mechanic, where your reticle has to track the enemy for a certain period of time, would fix Widow

[@Qaadree]

@@Trashloot The skill required to one shot on widow is so grossly overstated. She is not a difficult hero to play, but a boring one. To play as, with and against. This is even worse so in GM, because the whole lobby has to play in spite of her and change the entire composition, flow and tempo of the game. She is a bad hero and should be nerfed down to Rein tier. These one dimensional heroes should have died, with OW1.

[@graceborne]

Maybe a massive lens flair for all to see when her scope powers up? That way it's harder to hide as the Widow, but also still able to be played around? Idk

[@ash_yt0]

The Widow isn't the one who needs to do the hiding though that's the issue.

[@jennalove6755]

You cant hide as widow. Has anyone thats complained about widow actually played her?

[@memejesus4294]

That’s how Fortnite does it and it’s really seamless. I’m all for a lens reflection or a laser as other people have suggested (lens > laser because laser nerfs her positioning like crazy)

[@ash_yt0]

@@memejesus4294 Again, Widow's issue isn't that she's hard to spot. In Overwatch, at the ranks where Widows hit enough shots to be oppressive and lock-down the space, everyone in the lobby knows all the best Widow spots to snipe from. A location reveal mechanic IMO would only hurt low-rank Widows who already are throwing the game by being on a high-skill-floor hero without having enough skill to give value to their team. IMO she needs more drastic changes... I would do the following: Buff Venom. Make it so anyone inflicted with Venom receives... a weak Damage-Over-Time, a Discord-Orb-style enfeeble. Then... I would nerf Widow's damage, so that she can't insta-one-shot you UNLESS you are venomed (which will increase the damage you take from Widowmaker's snipes.) In addition, a fully charged sniper shot will put a brief Wallhack on the target (which is only visible to Widow, unlike her Ult.) And a sniper headshot will inflict Venom (which makes it so you can take someone out with a single headshot still, but the enemy gets a little time to save themselves with a Suzu, Bubble, Fade etc. to cleanse the Venom... but if there are no cooldowns or supports around to help them, they're a goner.) Then I would give Widow 2 Venom Mines instead of 1 (and increase their Trigger-Range), and lower her Grapple Hook so she can do fun Hookshots more often to compensate her for a nerf to her insta-delete potential. The idea with the 2 buffed Venom Mines is that she is encouraged to place Mines in the battlefield (which requires her to get closer to the fight) in order to be able to Venom targets, which then allows her to delete that target with a single shot since Venomed targets now have the Discord Orb effect and will succumb to a single headshot (and take extra damage from body shots too.) So Widowmaker keeps the oneshot, but it requires a combo... either Venom Mine + Headshot, or Headshot + Venom DoT. They could also give her damage boost when her Ultimate is active so that she gets insta-1-shot back during her Ultimate.

[@nathankerr4219]

One idea could be adding a decay to her charge sort of like sojourn’s right click. How it would work is initially the scope in will charge the shot like it does now however, after a certain amount of time the charge will start to decay, with the only way to recharge the shot being either unscoping and rescoping or taking a shot

[@KillerPigMonkey]

I picked up Widow as my main DPS only in the last couple of seasons, and I think the simplest fix for her as someone who had played on both sides of the scope is an audio/visual que for when you are in her sightlines. Like a glint from her scope and a sharp "spidey sense" kind of sound for when you are being looked at. It won't help low Elo players who can't even hear a junkrat walking behind them, but that goes both ways since decent widows don't exactly exist at that Elo either.

[@KillerPigMonkey]

I also agree that bringing her damage falloff and scoped distance in a little would be beneficial to everyone without taking away Widow's viability and the fun for Widow players.

[@Forsakenruler]

@@KillerPigMonkeya red dot showering where she’s aiming is also good

[@KillerPigMonkey]

@Forsakenruler Yeah, except unless you are Ball/Brig/Rein, you can't see your own body to know if the dot is on you. And having a whole red-dot trail like a permanent bullet-trail would make Widow entirely useless. Cod and Battlefeild have very large sniper glints, and while not a perfect counter, does work pretty well at letting you know where a sniper is and when they are looking at you. Overall, I think just reducing her damage at range so that she has to 2 shot all heroes farther than 30m is probably the best solution.

[@Screech2111]

2:20 Agreed to this. Why the f do I shoot cotton balls as Cass when the target is further than 40 m away and Widow can sit in Narnia and one-shot most of the roster?

[@solidforge2016]

People don't realize this but Cass has a lower TTK than Ashe on a 200 HP target outside of each of their falloff ranges

[@pud469]

If you don't want damage falloff play a healer, er I mean a support. (That was meant to be a joke, but it also true) While I agree that supports should be able to defend their selves. Their defense should be evasiveness, not more damage that an damage created character. OW2 kind of went stray with the identities of each roll. Its difficult to balance a hit scan sniper, when only a dive tank, or support can pressure her. Widow belonged in OW 1 after the first few patches, but she does not work well in OW2, when supports do more damage than the DPS. This causes the supports to put pressure on her, and takes away the support keeping the DPS alive to pressure her. It is unbalanced when a Bapt or an Illari have better luck keeping a Widow hiding than an Ashe or Cass.

[@aylinncuteasf]

You're literally comparing apples to oranges 😂 Widowmaker is a squishy sniper and Cassidy is an up close duelist. Ofc hes gonna have fall off. He's one of the tankiest DPS in the game and has 2 reload mechanics and an up close stun. If you're gonna make this argument, at least make it right

[@DarkKeybladeMaster23]

cause its a sniper rifle and you have a fucking revolver it makes logical sense for the revolve to have damage fall off ffs.

[@pud469]

@@DarkKeybladeMaster23 yet kiriko can inverse side arm small swords with no fall off, I wish that made sense.

[@ChristochatBTW]

Simple solution, make her sniper a projectile weapon, even if it's a fast one And if you wanna keep her hitscan. Make it function like splatoon's charger, have her sniper glow brightly and give her a targeting laser that let's people see if they're being aimed at

[@dennisyoung6122]

1 tank was Widow's biggest buff. Total team Hp dropped from, what, 2000 on average to 1200-1400?

[@porkiousttv]

That and there being less shields as well, so more sight lines on top of less team hp

[@Moter.]

Also dive tanks became less effective because in 5v5,it means no one is protecting your team

[@charleshaines9715]

Exactly. You could use a Sigma to shield a position, Winston could use his shield to help you move, shield her off, or pressure her. Wrecking Ball can harass and displace her. Same for Doomfist and the upcoming tank. But with only 1 tank, they can't spend much time paying attention to 1 person.

[@xd3athclawx554]

@@Moter. exactly, the main reason widow was more in check in 6v6 is because you could play double shield and basically remove all LOS from widow or play a winton to constantly jump the widow and keep her busy and on her toes. You can't do that in 5v5 with 1 tank because you either leave your team exposed or you lose from not having a tank after diving the widow.

[@itsbeeva]

THANK YOU. It seems like no one brings this up anymore… Dive is no longer a proper counter because your entire team can die while you (possibly) kill the Widow. 6v6 and a laser could probably go a long way.

[@angelsibrian5085]

When you die so you watch the kill cam and see how you died by one shot widow because you barely peaked from a corner and died cause the widow was aiming for ur teammate but ended up seeing you instead

[@rachetmarvel931]

As a Sigma main, constantly denying Widowmaker with my shield feels satisfying 😂. You can see the exact moment when they give up and switch off.

[@orgaysis]

This. Even just using it to defend your team barrier tanks, flankers, absorbers, deflectors. We have a full roster in place to defend with. We are not just sitting ducks that have to "hide". The only thing I wanna try is giving Widow her glare with base aim, laser when charged, and constant laser when ult is active. Yes she has 200 HP but that doesn't matter at range. We first need to know where she is if you don't wanna find out the hard way. Especially when she is the ONLY sniper rifle user. Ashe is rifle but doesn't one shot. Hanzo one shots but the arrow archs. Cass is midranged. Mei walls her own team and everyone else uses machine guns, shotties, and melee.

[@Battleress2]

if im on sigma when a widow pops up, my entire existence becomes "DENY WIDOW... and then get the supps" lmao most of the time, just doing my best to harass her is enough to disrupt their team, and my team is able to keep me alive long enough for somebody to get a pick so we can move in (surprisingly, it's often my own pick on widow or a supp that gives us the fight).

[@nocturn05]

Why not just add a big scope glare while shes aiming? Maybe increase her head hitbox size while its present

[@blazethefaith]

I wonder how it would play out to have her charge work similarly to how it does now, but after a few seconds it slowly decays back down to a set point (say 50% for example). Thus, for her to hold a corner, she would have to know when to start scoping in, or she'd want to re-scope to get the full damage. I was thinking about a similar thought with Hanzo a few years ago, it would get pretty tiring to hold a bow indefinitely so it could make sense that he'd slightly lose pressure on his pull. Applying it to Widow instead might make more sense from a gameplay perspective though, especially considering where they took Hanzo it's less needed for him.

[@SantiagoPerez-yv9wu]

Well yes, about Hanzo, he at least takes actual aim and his arrows are slower than a real bow anyway

[@bigfudge2031]

People saying that Sombra was a necessary evil to keep Widows in check have the wrong mindset. They are two individual problems that both need solving. If one character completely shuts down another, then that is bad character design on both ends.

[@410Kian]

Sombra didn’t completely shut her down though. Widow was still worth going on circuit Royal and other maps. Widow shouldn’t be played everywhere.

[@kaylaoneill4863]

Sombra is an easy hero to fight against you can bait her cooldowns and make her useless pretty much instantly but widow can sit there being a problem and the devs refuse to do anything about her

[@sthepcorms6747]

Overwatch is all about counters swapping, and neither of them shuts the other completely down, good widows can play against Sombra at high ranks

[@viktorreznov2092]

​@@sthepcorms6747 yes that is correct but 70% of the community isn't high ranks. That's what we need to remember

[@bigfudge2031]

@@viktorreznov2092 depends what you consider high, because even diamond is in the top 9% of players, so 81% are below that

[@Mezurashii5]

Limiting the time on max charge is a great idea, it just needs to be a separate input from shooting to trigger it. Also, you should be able to tell where a widow is looking so you know where not to go, and force her to reposition.

[@deejaytheman6142]

I love the idea of of these changes especially the grappling hook and head shot but i have a different idea. For the grappling hook letting her perch anywhere really adds to her hero identity. When watching the trailers its what i imagine her to be like in game but the problem is the widow would be too hard to find/see which is where we implemented a mechanic found in so many other games, SCOPE GLARE making the scope almost glow red gives you a second to find and identity the widow no matter how far away you are. BUT HOW CAN I SEE THE WIDOW IF I DIE AS SOON AS I PEAK This is where the second part comes in, the headshot damage scaling. Up close widow still has her 2.5x damage multiply for head shots allowing for skillful one shot kills but in a idea brought to me by marvel rivals, past 20 meters the headshot requires you to track the target to get the multiplier up enough to kill, just having to track the enemy allows the enemy to see the red scope pointed at them giving them around 0.5 seconds to react and giving widow a less demanding tracking radius maybe 2 meters from center mass allows for a bit of wiggle room if the target moves around while still giving the one shot

[@deejaytheman6142]

This could potentially add a whole new depth of character to widow. Allowing for almost this exchange of finding new spots to snipr from that won't be expected by the enemy and the enemy having to find the widow before they get one shot. It makes the enemy still fear the widow but also have a chance of counter play

[@deejaytheman6142]

This also has the added benefit of slowing down her kill time by accident

[@milsharkie]

In Team Fortress 2, the Sniper is even more oppressive than Widowmaker because Sniper can oneshot *anyone*, even the tankiest character in the game (A fully overhealed Heavy has 450 HP and that happens to also be the max damage a Sniper headshot can do). This same discussion has been held plenty of times in TF2, but there's a key difference between Widow and Sniper that I think needs to be looked at: Sniper has a laser sight. Like, a real laser sight, not a video-gamey one: it just puts a team-colored glowing dot on any surface he's aiming at, with no tracer line to track back to him (though he can equip sidegrade rifles that give his shots tracer rounds in exchange for other benefits but that's beside the point). Basically, in TF2, you can know that a Sniper is holding down a sightline without needing to get shot by him first. Widowmaker doesn't have that counterplay. The only way to know with 100% cetainty that a Widow is looking down a sightline is for her to shoot at least once, by which point it's too late for 80% of the players on the other team. Make it possible to know a sightline is covered by a Widow, but do it in a way that requires paying attention to what's around you like the Sniper's dot, and a lot of the issues with Widow go away. EDIT: Also, the TF2 Sniper has a sidegrade that's a bow which can do a max of 360 damage on a headshot, so it's less damaging than the sniper rifle with the benefit of charging up faster and being less encouraging of tunnel vision, while still oneshotting everything that doesn't have an overheal. But the bow... if you hold the shot for too long, it loses accuracy. So you're forced to time your shots and not just hard focus on a corner.

[@cableninja318]

I agree with this. TF2 is just a better game mostly because it has more players on each team which means unless they kill the only one medic on the enemy team, momentum is grounded down to a halt like in overwatch because 4v5s are harder to win than 15v16

[@skorpers]

You missed the fact that he gets flinched when taking damage at certain ranges, lit on fire, bleed, or similar. Only way for him to avoid it is to get on an item that removes his smg, where he still has to be fully charged in order to take no aim punch. By default it merely reduces knockback by 20%

[@milsharkie]

@@skorpers To be honest, I play so little Widowmaker that I just forgot she doesn't have that as a mechanic as well

[@EpicLoser-ge5wz]

We don't need to delete one-shot as much as we need that giant Widow to be a skin.

[@KlebinDaBoca]

A Widow skin for Kiri, yes.

[@drid1374]

One thing that I think can help, is having an aim idle sway while holding ads for Widow. In games like COD while you can hold scope for a sniper indefinitely, you cannot hold “steady aim” forever. FYI, while aiming in cod it is not directly held in the center of the screen. Each gun has varying sway away from the center. However while holding “steady aim on scoped weapons it reduces that sway. After a while after holding steady aim while scoped you would receive an immense aim sway, practically making it impossible to aim a shot. While there is no aim idle sway in ow2. I think an immense sway after holding ads for a while would be a nice rework for widow. Regarding the rework suggested in the video, holding primary fire to charge for a limited time before auto fire is nice. One way you can easily by pass that is reloading while charging. If you do that you can more quickly recharge you charged fire if you do not think you have a great shot. For all charges shots like winton, and sym you can reload before you have to auto fire at anytime while holding charge shot. This is why I think having a large sway after holding aim while keeping her kit would be better.

[@fateofsouls214]

Overwatch does not have any kind of realism while COD has some and as you said, in COD every weapon has something like that. Furthermore it does not work for Widow because of her lore. Having a unhumanlike steady aim is the result of her treatment, slowing her heartbeat, the reason why she is blue in the first place.

[@tylerdwyer7620]

Widow could be lile the sniper from the archives story missions, you see a lazer before the shot and has sounds giving time to react.

[@aSuperPi.]

One of the best sniper concepts I have seen is actually the recent Hawkeye design. It requires you to track the enemy in order to charge up the one shot and that would work amazingly for widowmaker because it would get rid of the peaking a corner and instantly dying aspect. You would definitely need to reduce the charge time slightly but I think that would be a simply improvement that would have a huge impact on her annoyingness.

[@Dr.Mango24]

The other player needs info that they are about to get one shot and have a way to negate it if fast enough.

[@jordanleung7363]

9:38 Perhaps a fix to this specific problem can be found in Marvel Rival's recent design for Hawkeye, where the power of his arrows can be charged only up to a certain point, but you'd have to lock your reticle onto the enemy for longer to have the arrow charge up to a one-shot

[@sirfailalotful]

“Legends say that Mercy is still tbagging Widow’s corpse.”

[@ATBZ]

After playing marvel rivals a pretty good solution would be to give her a mechanic like hawkeye's focus to replace her charge in combination with sniper glint.

[@breguera77]

Either force her engagements to have more risk and reduce the amount of space she can control, or buff her counters. Sombra was annoying but I’d rather have permanent invis over seeing my health bar disappear due to the opportunist passive, and she also kept widows in check

[@arno1844]

I keep seeing people recommend lasers or red dots, but what about glint? At least to me, it seems like a good idea, so you dont have to search for where the widow is.

[@Disappointed_Philosoraptor]

would only be visible if you're in her line of fire already, making it useless vs a good widow as you would only ever see that glint from your teammates POV as you respawn. The shot needs to be telegraphed before she can pull the trigger on you. It has to be either Laser or the oneshot is partially converted into a dot, meaning it will kill unless the target or their team use resources to stop the ticking damage.

[@yukioacumora4430]

She needs like a sniper thread or something like from splatoon or something. We don't need to delete widow or somethin, to get that 1shot consistently takes actual skill with having good aim, and I'm tired of blizzard nerfing heros that actually take skill, but something does need to change with her a bit.

[@12ww37]

No that would be really bad, chargers in splatoon also have things that set back the weakness of having a thread plus splatoon is a third person shooter that has crackhead pacing compared to OW2

[@SmoodGraphics59]

18:38 as a decent widowmaker main that is disgusting 😂 it’s still a fun ability, but that would be abused so much but instead of that, they should just let her swing with her grappling hook but if they would remove the grappling hook I would quit Widowmaker and start playing Ashe or Ana

[@specracer28]

As someone that frequently bounces between paladins and OverWatch, I'll tell you a story about how paladins removed its one shots. Once upon a time Paladins had the same problem. It's Widowmaker and Hanzo variant. We're dominating matches. They almost literally server admins deleting people mere moments after walking out spawn. It didn't sit well with the community. How a game with goblins in mech suits and literally dragons we're getting dominated by chick with sniper rifle. So Hi Rez the paladins devs listened to the community (weird i know) and just removed their one shots. They do just enough damage to almost kill you, but because of their inherent slow fire rate you could probably get around the corner before you got your head blown and though if you have already taken a little bit damage, you were probably dead. The results were only positive for the game. The snipers not being able to one shot allowed other characters that have been useless to actually get some play time. It gave more meaning to the flanker role since the sniper was leaving somebody very weak in the back line. The only person that this wasn't a positive for was the sniper So I guess the question is should you hold your game hostage so one player in the lobby can get a montage?

[@cjyoung5635]

Sky? i thinks that's her name was a much bigger issue than one shots because her poison dart dealt total max hp and could dot kill the knight and other tanks but was useless against dps or support. Pretty sure they made it deal retroactive hp damage but only played for like the 1st month the game came out so idk.

[@gobgrem777]

Only issue is if they nerf Widow to be like this, it'll go against her "one shot one kill" character identity, which people will inevitably complain about. Also, and this is my problem, if Widow no longer oneshots, you have to give her SOMETHING else to do to be useful or fun to play- 'cause otherwise she'd just be the character that sits in the backline getting people low and praying someone else will finish them off, which is a huge nothingburger compared to the rest of the roster. Honestly she just needs a big rework atp. Something more engaging, and with more counterplay.

[@phil1500]

@@gobgrem777 nothing wrong with removing character identity in overwatch, talk to sym, torb, and sombra about it. But yeah she needs something else for sure, id like to see them focus on the poison aspect of the kit more, hell give her a viper wall or something. Or make the smg more useful, maybe have it convert to something more mid range. You could make her grapple more fun too, let her do the inverted hang stuff in game. They have a lot of options, but it'd have to be more significant and that unfortunately requires significant dev time this cut team lacks.

[@Deathspider9]

@@gobgrem777 this 1 shot 1 kill "LORE" is pretty much about NORMAL beings, she fight against fucking heroes, Robots and a hamster, so i srsly dont think deleting the one shot potential destroy her "lore".

[@gabrielsalahi3656]

So we delete DVA, Reaper, Tracer, Rein, Doomfist, Hog, Hanzo, Widow, etc etc because they have one shots….what an amazing solution

[@blindvalkyrie9352]

Give widow a laser sight that gets brighter the longer it charges, done. you could even have a sound effect of a laser sight the closer you are to widow

[@chris61986]

So I enjoy playing Widow. She's been my most played hero over the past several seasons. Whenever they started tracking hero levels, she's my highest. Charge hold limit would feel horrible, IMO. It is a good idea on paper. It works for others because it's a single button. Holding two buttons at the same time and trying to be precise would feel super awkward. I'd say I'd be willing to try it, but if it gets put in I'm pretty sure that dumpsters her. A laser sight is a potential solution, but it doesn't help in the cases where she's strongest. You know Widow's on top of the ramp/bridge in Circuit Royale. Until recently, you knew she'd be on the second story Havana first point. Third point Havana, she's probably on the castle wall in the sniper nest. The problem is now you make it where an already limited hero is basically ONLY playable on these points/maps. Thinking out loud, maybe you go with the laser sight idea, but adding power to her SMG and giving more HP. She can now defend herself better close-range because she's going to be dove way more often. Of course, this arguably makes her even better in her most oppressive situations.

[@siringc]

Some say Mercy's still tea-bagging to this day

[@ozziespeed2172]

What is Widow just had a red dot where she was aiming. And maybe it took a second for the shot to fire after clicking the fire button?

[@GuidedByCompassion]

"I would get rolled by Spider Widow all day long..." I mean her whole motif is ya know... spiders.

[@henriquealvarenga9244]

Man started cooking so well with the max charge time and then proceeded to burn the entire kitchen down

[@michaelstroud2087]

marvel rivals showed what could be a healthy version of widow is hawkeye the mechanic where you track the target to charge their shot. It would make her less oppressive and make cover a point of denying her of her one shot ability while giving characters like ashe and hanzo the capability of fighting back against the widow.

[@Deisan]

Im just imagining all the new insane angles Kephrii would find as spider-widow. Imma hace nightmares now.

[@charleshaines9715]

Vindicta in Deadlock has already implemented exactly what most players would want.

[@thearchgamer6674]

I think a cool idea would be to have a cheesy sniper laser that points out of widow's line of sight when she is scoped in and fully charged. The threat she creates wouldn't change at all, but enemy players would have a visual indication that there is danger around that corner and you would make a conscious choice about whether to challenge her on that angle.

[@Eezeecheese]

I think they had the good idea with the Rialto mission and how those snipers shots and also the test bots show where the aim is and have the charge showing and forced rhythm allowing the player to have more agency in those interactions over just seeing the bright red beam afterwards when you’re already dead or she missed.

[@BxGStone]

I think the focus idea would be good if this happens as well: if the CD for focus is on, then the hip fire would be condensed. Making it so if a flanking hero did dive WM, she would still be lethal

[@YourAzianFrend]

To increase her risk of going for one shots I think a heavy increase to the sniper shot charge timer, and then bring her closer to the fight by increasing her machine gun damage slightly. This way she can’t go for quick succession one shots, and will be exposed for longer while the shot charges before she can take the follow up shot.

[@FenekkuKitsune]

I like the idea of bringing Widowmaker closer as a compromise. That one time they nerfed her range was a nice idea, but it basically didn't do anything as she was still able to play at long range.

[@KingKuron_]

Okay, the Grapple-Kick thing seems actually really fun. I'd love to pull a Spider-Man.

[@Heyzeus891]

There’s a trend ive noticed in our community where one hero will be hated on and lambasted all over the internet until they get major nerfs or re works to their kits and play style and it’s always the big streamers that start it off, Orisa, Roadhog, Sombra and now widow. There’s only thing most of these change suggestions to widow will do is make her more difficult to use in lower ranks where she will be seen as a throw pick, the higher tier players will just figure out a different way to be op and it’ll be like nothing changed at all

[@coolinboolin6934]

They could make widowmakers charge up be like Hawkeye in Marvel rivals where it only charges up when you’re aiming at somebody

[@sarahandcompanyeso2553]

I think it could be good for Widowmaker to have to apply a "mark" and that mark enables 1 shots. That way she can't just 1 shot anyone but she has to pick a target, and the target knows they are marked.

[@BandannaBread]

3:20 For me, I feel like the types of One Shots that I have issues with are ones that have less than 1 Second for a Time To Kill (Without them also being High Risk, Time Consuming, Ultimate Abilities, etc). When they're able to happen that quickly, it feels like there was nothing you could do and you did nothing wrong, but were punished for it anyway. Using Reinhardt's Charge as an example. It's a One Shot too, but it's easy for most people to react to. I think there's less than 5 Heroes that, by themselves, have the ability to consistently get the TTK of Heroes with 250 HP to be under 1 Second.

[@kevinatenine9797]

The Ball grapple idea is actually really good. It's obviously a big buff but would justify nerfing her range significantly.

[@ollydavis2495]

I feel like widow needs either a permanently visable red laser showing exactly where she is aiming, or change her damage to fit the spider design by making it a DOT effect like her venom mine. She can still one shot BUT it takes 1-2 seconds to kill which gives space for good teamwork to reward and counter the one shot

[@ragnarokpuppy398]

i feel we got really good change idea for this in marvel rivals with hawkeye. make it so you have to keep your sights aimed on the enemy for a small time (say 0.5-1 second) to get the one shot. it allows the one shot to exist but with the extra effort from widow herself

[@AaronWOfficial]

5:40 you can also avoid a dva bomb and rein pin if you see it, if you see a widowmaker and she is good you are dead.

[@Bouipi]

its the length of time holding the scope, i like the passive of you can only hold 2 seconds (starts after 100% charge) instead of auto shoot

[@artmanrom]

I remember when years ago they drastically shortened the TTK in RoCo. Most of the KZbinrs and Twitch streamers were ragging about it, saying that's not fair, the one who's starting to shoot has all the chances to kill without giving any second chance to the opponent and the devs reverted that. Also, there are two sniper rifles, who can be uses by only three of the rogues. The first needs at least two headshots in order to kill someone, and the other one just one, but had first just two bullets in its magazine, that later was reduced to just one. So that suggestion to give to Widomaker a bigger pause in between her shoots it's very logical and in great part will alleviate the Widowmaker's anti-fun frustration.

[@Smol_PC]

Adding the passive when moira is the most popular hero seems like a nightmare more than it already is. The charge and releasr to fire is a good concept, but releasing to shoot seems backwards and would feel uncomfortable. One thing I've wanted as a Widow player would be able to swing like spiderman or simply hang upside down with the grappling hook!

[@Thudd224]

Perhaps if widows rifle had an indicaton Lazer revealing her aim once her scoped charge is, say 50-65% charged. Scope flare could work too

[@bigfudge2031]

Another direction they could go is to give her headshot a 200 damage (with falloff) and a 100 damage bleed over 2 seconds. This still allows her to "1-shot" 300hp characters but still gives people a small window to react and potentially survive.

[@Disappointed_Philosoraptor]

exactly. the numbers are up to fine tuning, but offloading part of the oneshot to a DOT will allow the target and their team to react, just like they can to react to all other non-oneshots.

[@fateofsouls214]

Dying to a DOT is the worst kind of death by far and in a Aprilfools patch it was tried and it showed the flaws and ultimate failure of that idea.

[@Disappointed_Philosoraptor]

@@fateofsouls214 worst kind of death? I am not even sure it makes my top 10. let me make a list: 1. random Hanzo choke spam headshot 2. (old) Somba spawncamping or backline assassination 3. random Junkrat choke spam oneshot 4. current Widow headshot out of nowhere 5. getting CC'd and then killed by several abilities back to back 6. random kiriko choke spam headshot 7. Roadhog hook combo or into abyss 8. Genji player high on cocaine teamkilling with nano dragonblade 9. backline moira 1v1s you with her incredibly skill-intensive right click and ball juggling 10. Pharmercy jup, actually doesn't even make it into my top 10

[@fateofsouls214]

@@Disappointed_Philosoraptor You are talking about the circumstances, not the kind of death. 1,3,4,7,8 can all be counted as a One shot death. 2,5,6,9,10 are all Playstyle/situation dependent. What I am talking about is: A Oneshot, as a Mechanic, is applied instantly, so its a Quickdeath. You might me annoyed but you cannot change it, you are already dead. Dying to a DOT is a bit different. Yes, in the right circumstances (Having a Support or HP Pack near you) you can survive it BUT if not you are cannot to anything excpet to wait for your death, no matter what you are doing, you will die, you are helpless. Thats also why Mei freezing and headshoting you or Roadhog hook or old Cass stun feel so terrible. You know you are going to die but cannot do anything against it. I find it much worse knowing I going to die, then being dead faster then I can react to. Kinda like a sticking plaster. tear it away quickly and the pain will only last for a short time or slowly, which means the pain will last much longer. Better short and painless than slow and painful.

[@Disappointed_Philosoraptor]

@@fateofsouls214 well, i differentiate the way i did becauser all of these feel different and we werer talking about our feelings on the matter. I have nothing to argue against here becuase I cannto change how you feel about stuff I firmly believe that a short DOT duration - just long enough that quick reflexes and a cleanse or heal will save the victim but not so long it feels draggen out - would be better.

[@RATJESUS]

I think the holding charge would definitely make widow feel worse, but it will still have the "I had no chance" feeling when getting 1-shot. I think if you give her a laser that glows brighter with her charge, you would then be able to have counter play knowing she's aiming at you, and or she will have to focus on hiding her laser until ready to shoot. Like the TF2 sniper. Still has the 1-shot annoyance, but there's more counterplay

[@Caulk2meBB]

I think if they did a scope reflection at full charge would be a little change that would make it easier

[@shanonfrancis5071]

A spider widow mode with an upside down camera would be so funny for April fool's

[@Buhllake]

Honestly think they could do a ton with her brawling type fighting and grappling hook/agility and have the sniper shot as an ability. Most snipers are only really good for the one shot anyways, they could make it a pretty easy shot too. Then have her be a more agile kinda fighter during the cooldown. I like the idea of bringing her in closer to fights as well as a laser pointer to show where she’s aiming as all the characters mentioned with charge have loud sound/visual effects.

[@ExTeeBee]

Widow's problem in herently is the same problem snipers have had for years. Even if they don't kill often, if you know or suspect they have good aim, they can get outright free value just by restricting where people can go.

[@jaltersimp9639]

honestly what they can do it add wobble to her scope. Then add a "hold breath". It would keep her able to hold her charge but force her to learn her timings on holding. They can also add a glint to her scope to make her more noticeable. I wouldn't even mind if she became a Laser sight where the enemies can see it. (Like in siege but better) they can even add decay to her charge time. Hold too long and it will slowly go down. If they really wanted to do this one (not saying its good). inside of 10m, She will reduce her damage dealt. Outside of 20m, She will keep her current damage. Between 11-19m can be headshots are 1 shot but body is reduced. tbh idk what they can do for the between damage range. there are many ways to fix her besides just removing her whole identity.

[@philtkaswahl2124]

Blizz decided that as the now _only_ tank I can either devote a stupid amount of time denying Widow so my team can scream at me for not giving enough attention to taking and controlling the space, or try to do the rest of my tank jobs and get screamed at for not magically protecting everyone from the Widow enough.

[@joshyaash]

Always liked how tf2 did it. If they are scoped in, you see the crosshair on the wall or whatever. Could be interesting to see the tracer at all times

[@drefs3035]

Yea, but if you visit tf2 subreddit, you can see that it doesn't really help. People are still mad.

[@annamcguire9107]

It seems like, if all of these changes were implemented she could still do a killing combo on a dive with headshot grapple punch.

[@drawingablank3904]

The grapple change the video suggested would be fine if there was a lens flare or laser widow had when she was scoped in.

[@pkrames]

One shots do not belong in a hero shooter. A game like overwatch is a team based game with abilities. To have a characters primary fire delete an enemy doesn't leave any room for team play or counterplay. It should do a huge chunk of damage that forces the enemy to react and use cooldowns. So either your team can followup and finish the kill, or it forces their supports to peel and use abilities.

[@demonicreaper3473]

You can argue they dont belong in overwatch, but they are a staple in hero shooters lol. I mean every hero in valorant can 1 tap you in the head and apex has had numerous weapons that can one shot. Those games are also teambased but you dont see their players going out of their way to demand the removal of those features

[@Buhllake]

@@demonicreaper3473 because those are different games and are literally balanced around ALL guns one shotting. Anyone in Val can use any gun it’s way different

[@demonicreaper3473]

@Buhllake and overwatch is balance around different heroes being good at different things. Widows not the only one dimensional character in the game. People just see a one shot and start foaming at the mouth

[@d4mephisto]

y'all are overthinking it. once in a while, you can color outside the lines. while almost 99% of the time we want to preserve hero identities, widowmaker losing her identity in order to remove one-shots from the game is fine. it would even be good. i have hated her existence since 2016, and i feel the same way now as i did then. nothing has changed. it IS a problem. devs just need to have the balls to withstand 6-ish months of criticism, then everyone will give in to the idea that "ok well i see the devs haven't reverted the change. alright then. i will just learn to accept this is the new reality." problem is, blizz devs are like ineffective parents who ground their children for a day when they break a rule, only to 3 hours into the grounding period revoke it and say "sorry sweetie, you're not grounded anymore" and the child learns NOTHING. the overwatch playerbase needs to learn that one-shots are not a thing and don't belong in the game. devs need to just change widowmaker and then RESIST CHANGING HER BACK until the community accepts it. period.

[@jack8162]

Should work like discord, she has to mark someone before she can get full damage. E(venom mine. Change it it widow's kiss or something) attaches to targeted character, and then she gets the full multiplier until line of site is broken for long enough, then it goes on cooldown for that character. She would have to mark them and then charge the shot like normal, so they would have time to react to it. Her ult would mean line of site isn't broken so it would actually make her ult better too.

[@JuiceBoxHero008]

What about a widow specific zen orb or hunters mark that takes her out of scope. That way the one being targeted knows they’re being targeted and has time to panic or react before the scope charges for a one shot. Outside of the full charge and mark it’s not a 1 shot

[@esmepipkin6087]

Widow enjoyer here, I think the changes presented in the video would be pretty cool (though Focus would have to have a minimum damage threshold or it'd be insanely annoying) Personally, I think the way she worked in Mirrorwatch (no one-shot, reveals enemies on a headshot) was really fun, but if we wanna go in a different direction, replace her mediocre venom mine with the ability to mark someone, basically a personal discord orb. It'd take her fully charged headshot damage from like 200 to 300. Maybe have the mark have a maximum application range of ~30-40 meters so she has to play a little bit closer up for the max value, and make it vanish and go on cd if the target is out of LoS for a few seconds. Ik it's a *little* lazy to essentially take another character's gimmick and put it on her, but it honestly is a perfect solution to letting her one-shot but not all the time

[@plazmurr]

The focus passive sounds like a nice idea but what if it was implemented with a new ability that was on a long ish cooldown that removed the focus cooldown for the next 2 shots and maybe other slight benefits, you could bait the cooldown from range out of widow then she couldn't 1 shot the tracer up close but if the widow has better positioning and cd management she could still do the cool 1 shot the diving dps up close stuff she'd just have to press 1 extra button

[@15muffinz]

I did like his idea of how to approach the charge rate but I did think the holding to shoot was a little weird.

[@fctbf1grs539]

what about adding laser to the widow scope so that enemies can see when she is scoped in? Or when widow scopes in, either it shoots automatically after 2 sec or it still shoots even if released before 2 sec timer to notify the enemy of widow location? Or Widow maximum damage range falloff has to be lowered to reduce the one shot from across the map? Also what about when she scopes in max damage charge, all the ammo is consumed to reduce the chances of more enemy elimination from across the map as widow has to reload every scoped shot? any other suggestions are welcome

[@sanjidandelion]

11:45 Brother, it would feel awful. Especially since that's the total opposite to how snipers feel in every game ever.

[@williamp9560]

Have people just forgot about the invasion event where the sniper telegraphed all her shits. Just give widow a scope glint or a red dot. At least then you would know where the shots coming from, but the glint/red dot only appears when she is fully scoped. The perching widow would work if she was also upside down while doin it. With the controls inverted shots like that would be amazing.

[@maxl8623]

Another W for Marvel rivals. They’ve got cool balance for their one shot character (Hawkeye). Let’s just hope they don’t make the mistake of adding a bad one shot lol.

[@helvarruneheart2332]

it's an new game too every new competitive game is balanced at launch.

[@TR-ju5re]

​@@helvarruneheart2332😂😂😂

[@natebutler1783]

Hear me out, take that charge. Shot and apply it to her ammo. Basically, when she's charging her shot, it takes up her ammo at a certain rate the longer you hold the charge. At Max charge, you can only hold it for 2 seconds. after that. It'll automatically fire or will fire with release. After this she will have to reload and make it a form of a bolt-action Sniper. Still allowing her close range rifle while reducing how much she can do with her Sniper.

[@Hsotnas80]

Here are some stats from overbuff. DPS win rate on Console in competitive for last 3 months Out of 18 dps characters, on win rate widow ranks as follows GM - 6th Master - 14th Diamond - 11th Platinum - 14th Gold - 9th Silver - 13th Bronze - 14th Thoughts?

[@kctheshadowman9651]

I actually like all of those ideas surprisingly, If you combine all of them, then it does work for her as everyone's been focusing on her gun but not her grappling though that does seem to be a big part of her character. Like she may be a assassin but wasn't she also a dancer at one point? It would be cool to be able to hook attack someone or hold on to it for a better line of sight, Letting her do that while having it where if she takes damage then the damage she does will be slightly decreased and there's a time limit. It actually kind of sounds balanced to me and more fun than what we have already lol

[@kctheshadowman9651]

Also I hate the line of thinking that heroes need multiple heroes that counter them, Because Widow doesn't have many counters now we can see the flaws of her character even more pronouncely. If we keep up with that line of thinking then there is always going to be counter watch, as long as we adjust characters that have visible problems then they won't need hard counters.

[@redfox7623]

in other games like the Battle Royale genre for example you are allowed to aim down sights without there being any indicator that a long range sniper system is looking at you. But in those games there is a mechanic of holding your breath to steady the aim you could just apply that to Widow like she can hold look down sights then have her "hold her breath" to charge it up and then she goes into "breathing recovery" afterwards that makes the aimpoint move if you still decide to aim down sights during so before she can go back into "hold her breath" charge now just assign it to shift or any other button but shift makes the most sense to me and give her another button for whatever her shift is now like her other abilities aren't that compelling anyway and you can just have her charge go to 100 without the need to hold shift after her grapple so you losers can still have your air trick shots Sure that may lead to a default state of widow always air grapples but then that just means you've increased the skill floor and eliminated this problem hero from mid to low rank games.

[@fateofsouls214]

She is blue to have a unhumanlike steady aim. So no, it would not work with her current lore.

[@SantiagoPerez-yv9wu]

Not true. She is blue to have lower heartbeat

[@fateofsouls214]

@@SantiagoPerez-yv9wu and why would that be? To slow her breath, feel less and be more efficient at her profession, which inplies better guncontroll i.e. steady aim.

[@SantiagoPerez-yv9wu]

@@fateofsouls214 incorrect., snipers shoot between heartbeats, has nothing to do with breath

[@fateofsouls214]

@@SantiagoPerez-yv9wu but does this really matter? if a game uses a steady aim mechanic it usually is called breath controll. nonetheless, both her breathing aswell as heartbeat are drastically slowed, allowing for steadier aim.

[@mookieblaelocker6504]

i like the laser idea if it only applies while charging a shot

[@AdventZZZx]

How about the Hawkeye treatment. She can only charge when aimed in on a target. And for the fun of it make it like the spartan laser where there is a sniper line while charging up.

[@artemis477]

It's almost like destroying the main character which keeps widow in check makes widow way too strong

[@growingtogether35]

Been doing well with my zen peeking widows with charged volley who also has no fall off damage except he cannot amp you if you're too far away.

[@5kTankz]

I like your idea of bringing widow closer, I didn’t think of that. My initial idea was to give widow a muzzle flash, which I think could work with your bring her closer idea. She’s closer into the fight AND her aiming down sights is much easier to see

[@paintlifebleak]

Idk what adding a red dot/laser would accomplish. If you're in widow's sightline, and especially if you're a priority target like a support, it's safe to assume she's aiming at you. When she shoots, she already has a VERY lound directional audio and a visible trail to where she shot from. I do agree that bringing her closer to the team fight is the best desicion blizzard can make. IMO, it the only meaningful change that can done that wouldn't make her unbearable to play. For instance, ive seen people say to add weapon sway when scoped. Every hero have different body sizes, heights, and hitboxes, adding scoped weapon sway already sounds unbearable. But blizzard also has to find the sweet spot for bringing her closer. Too close and sheel be too essy to jump, she'll need more buffs and just remove the identity of that covert ranged sniper. Too far, and nothing would have really changed I also think people need to get used to not insta-locking sombra and expecting to bully widow into swapping. Too many players think because sombra isnt as strong as she was before the rework, widow can't be contested, when realistically, any hero with high mobility than can chase her or assassin/flanker hero can challenge her. Nice change of pace to see a few people actually talking about legitimate changes that can be made instead of ranting and complaining REMOVE 1 SHOTS, WIDOW DOESN'T BELONG IN THE GAME, SOMBRA WAS THE ONLY COUNTER TO WIDOW.

[@aerostrafe1075]

I feel like you half listened to Emong's reaction. He literally brings up why just diving her with a flanker or assassin doesnt work.

[@garydiaz3293]

Any of the suggestions would be a healthier and still lethal hero: 1) laser sight or sniper glint to make her easier to spot when scoped 2) reticle flinch/bounce when taking incoming damage in scope, or full descope if enough damage received 3) reduce upfront damage by 10-15% on headshots but apply a venom DOT that applies the extra damage over ~2seconds to allow for support/hero counterplay against the one shot unless out of position or no cooldown, or enemy team follows up

[@mouthyschannel2474]

My idea for making Widow more fair: Damage vulnerability whilst scoped, glowing red glint where Widow is when she's scoped.

[@SnipinReaper]

What if we keep her the way she is and add a lense flair when she is scoped in and if she is looking at you it is more obvious, then you know when she is looking at you?

[@ryandaniel3088]

I just think having a longer animation on scoping in or out would be a great nerf That way it’s a lot easier to punish her because it’ll take her even longer to take her first shot after repositioning And also easier to punish her as she comes out of it to smg up close

[@undeadarcher465]

Ive always had the dumb concept of widows sniper getting a % of her damage turned to a DoT poison, that like her trap reveals the enemy, so if the sniper tags you, youre tracked for 2 seconds and the poison kills you from headshots if the healers DONT react at all

[@TR-ju5re]

This would be great ngl

[@rickyrusso5103]

My take on a window rework is this. She gains a new passive "Marked for Death". Which states, "Revealed" targets take increased crit damage. So in her ult she gains full walls and one tap potential But overall can only 99%. To compensate make her venom mine also "Reveal" targets. This gives her venom mine much more utility than a slow and minor damage. It also allows a one tap if the target is healed before widow can target them. Grapple can remain as is. I am on the fence about this last change I'm going to mention. Widows scope can "Reveal" targets after 2 seconds of looking at them. This allows her to base one tap but only every few seconds.

[@Cheseburgerham]

I like the idea that if widow gets shot and receive damage, she can't one shot anymore, with a 2-3s cooldown time, that makes that she cant just stand at the other side of the map and kill without any counterplay, the widow would require more positioning than "far off and in the open" and now people can deal with her just by being annoying towards her