EMP Riot Grrrl Retrospective -- Tobi Vail on Bikini Kill

[@Charlito732]

Tobi Vail, the girl who inspired "Aneurysm" and "Lounge Act"... Kurt was very in love with her in 1990.

[@JP-yc9sj]

And Tim Armstrong, too!

[@justinhopper5941]

And drain you

[@astridvvv9662]

He was a hardcore tobi vail simp and got wicked butt hurt and whiney anytime she'd give him the cold shoulder...which was a lot.

[@vdoza33]

Yeah a lot of nevermind was about her and we all know it lol

[@samuelmoreno411]

And about a girl

[@lialopez1128]

Tobi Vail is F*cking awesome!!! Screw you guys who only criticize her appearance, she probably does not give a f*ck about what you think! Appearance isn't everything, but I think she's beautiful. Hate her or love her she still inspired the riot grrrl movement AND those songs written by Kurt that you idolize so much. She will always be an inspiration. You rock Tobi!!

[@emmaduncan2991]

stupid boys, still judging their friends on their girlfriends "looks."

[@SL-vk3bi]

She look normal punk girl. Not make me feel real punk.

[@leahflower9924]

she looks so average lol but in a good way like a cute punk girl its weird she would get judged, i'm more surprised by how she and kathi seem almost timid lol

[@groofoot]

@@leahflower9924 I think she was hotter in 2011 than she was in 1992 ....

[@lilaccilla]

Right On !

[@typingcomments]

Tobi Vail's place in punk history is terribly underrated. Also, it's so cute that she's repping her sister's band with that shirt.

[@RDX1981]

tobi - thank you so much for inspiration of the greatest song ever - aneurysm

[@lornamackay6726]

So much for feminism...your all judging these girls only on their looks. The irony....

[@MrBooYa-yd5er]

That's what men do. Women judge even deeper than that.

[@markmullins132]

Because feminists are generally Fat and Ugly

[@frawgfatale2073]

Mark Mullins maybe lay off the cringe compilations and do some political research buddy , for your own sake

[@sexobscura]

it's *human* nature to judge *everything* by how it looks - clothes, furniture, food ……. people

[@Fireglo]

@Millennial Smark didn't Alabama literally just ban Abortion in the 21st century because they felt men's uneducated sexist religious opinions were more important than women's body autonomy?

[@olivelime9493]

I hate the fact that there is barely any interviews featuring bikini kill on KZbin. Also there are absolutely no music videos if they even did any. I mean that wouldn't make sense if they didn't

[@djhatgaysm420]

Astrid Sullivan hardcore punk bands like BK never really did music videos. All BK would do is put out 7 inch singles like most of the punk bands, they never made a music video. Bands like Bikini Kill didn’t have the budget for that type of thing. And I don’t think they really felt the need to do a homemade music video. This band always avoided the media to an extent. Kathleen even did a media blackout for a while. Because they were women with opinions, most of the little attention they got from the press was belittling. Journalists would write totally inaccurate articles about the members, and rarely ever just focused on the music. So, they didn’t like doing a lot of interviews. It’s not just that KZbin doesn’t have much, it’s that BK didn’t do much.

[@wespaul9345]

Cobain made these girls infamous. It's like women's soccer. Women despite all their feminist antics don't attend and don't care.

[@fleetwitchmac]

"You know? Like, whatever...like, you know?"

[@justinhopper5941]

She seems like a way better person than Courtney and I haven’t even watched this yet

[@Julia-zz1gq]

sadly for Kurt she didn't want to commit and he had found that in Courtney

[@rumblebird9888]

That sounds like a fair judgement

[@jokerhere4504]

There’s an entire album written about this person…that’s fucking crazy

[@Alex-yt6mo]

Nevermind?

[@paulmcduff1930]

@@Alex-yt6mo yes 👍

[@babywah3290]

A number 1 multi platinum album that changed the course of music.

[@Lu.cia15]

Kurt vomited for anxiety for the infatuation he had for this girl...

[@rumblebird9888]

That’s Twisted

[@danbowmen4180]

Kurt might have been a masochist for picking her over Tracy. Tracy was always cool in interviews I've seen of her.

[@kaamos79]

@dienosource She seems pretty insufferable to be honest

[@sheltertwo7957]

Y’all are fuckin weird.

[@submissivelover]

Tracy was nice and cool, but honestly seemed pretty boring and dull, like she didn't think very deeply about many things, and it's sweet to have a partner like that but Kurt was a deep person who yearned for more stimulation from a lover. Tobi seemed to challenge Kurt, he marveled at her intelligence and punk spirit, Courtney was very similar in not only her attitude but also her confidence, just far more toxic.

[@themagicalfox6]

Because he liked "excitement"

[@vintagecherries]

Kurt specifically said in an interview that the reason he broke up with Tracy was because they didn't have anything in common. Kurt wanted someone that had same interests or was a musician like him. That's why he chose Toby and Courtney. Both musicians.

[@jimmypesto3179]

Fun fact: Nirvana made a song called "Come On Death" which is believed to be a breakup song about Kurt and Tobi.

[@JohnDoe-tm9wz]

Source?

[@okirrama3587]

I thought it's Lounge act?

[@suhijo]

Wrong, Come on Death was a song played arround 1989 and Kurt wasn't into the relationship with her yet

[@agent_ninety9]

I loved Bikini kill and still do. Never got to see them sadly

[@ScipioAfricanus_Chris]

I am not certain she insprired Lounge Act ( which was seemingly about a drug addiction), though she was an influence on Smells Like Teen Spirit, or at least the name of the song.

[@Wout.vlmnck]

Kathleen Hanna (Tobi's bandmate) was the inspiration for the song's title.

[@justinhopper5941]

@@Wout.vlmnck The title of the song came from it the baseline. Nirvana said it sounded like something a cheesy lounge band would use

[@justinhopper5941]

She inspired aneurysm, drain you and lounge act. Lounge act is about a love triangle between her and Kurt and another guy Tobi was seeing at the same time

[@Wout.vlmnck]

@@justinhopper5941 Oh but I was talking about the titel of 'Smells like teen spirit' (:

[@delilasloan8914]

The story i aways read was that tobi was wearing the deodorant called teen Spirit which was popular for teenage girls back then..I remember when my mom bought some for me..and Kathleen wrote " Kurt smells like teen Spirit" on his bedroom wall to make fun of Kurt smelling like Tobi..

[@snomad2248]

Big inspiration for my band Y-Front Kill.

[@davejet6314]

Shes kinda cute :) i can see why Kurt Cobain chose her , she created some great rock n roll for Seattle Grunge :)

[@MelMXX]

So much ignorance in the comments. And how much misinformation! It was Kurt Cobain who broke up with Tobi Vail, not the other way around. And she was very beautiful when she was young. Even because Kurt liked people for their content and not for their appearance like most superficial people do.

[@--thatbih]

Kurt broke up with Tracey to be with Tobi

[@grungepants]

@@--thatbih I think the song lounge act might be about relationship insecurity. It's about feeling smothered by Tracey but feeling unloved by Tobi. I hear Tobi didn't want to commit or be monogamous. I think he left a boring "sure thing" with Tracy for a more interesting but emotionally painful fling with Tobi. Either way, if he never left Tracy, Kathleen Hannah wouldn't have written "Kurt smells like teen spirit" on his wall and we wouldn't have "smells like teen spirit".

[@--thatbih]

@@grungepants yea apparently Tobi just wanted to keep things casual and not put a label on it. Kurt on the other hand wanted romance. Her breaking things off with him really messed with him too. Aneurysm, SITW and a few others were written during that period. Nevermind is LITERED with references to Tobi

[@grungepants]

@@--thatbih Yeah I can totally see that happening. She was artsy and cool, he fell for her. She wanted her independence, Kurt could not turn off his intense love for her. He probably asked her to be exclusive and she said no, but he couldn't stop seeing her. I heard someone mention somewhere that she treated men like accessories, which is sad if true.

[@MelMXX]

@@--thatbih You are very misinformed. It was Kurt who ended the relationship with Tobi Vail and even after a while they went out again for another year, and the reason for the breakup was that Kurt was using heroin and Tobi didn't want him to use it and so Kurt chose to end it with her. This is recorded in the book by Everett True (Kurt's close friend) who interviewed Tobi Vail.

[@lilaccilla]

She is beautiful inside and out !

[@denden9786]

whats the name of the song in the beginning

[@koolkool994]

Double Dare Ya

[@brendaluna173]

is Tracy no Tracey

[@snorgisborg2]

What's the last song?

[@yawni__emptysullivan840]

Suck my left one

[@janem.olguin8103]

¿Ella es realmente Tobi Vail?.

[@janem.olguin8103]

¿Qué?.

[@anbuiza97]

Javiera M. Akdülger a que todas o casi todas las canciones de nevermind va dirigidas a ella

[@patricia959jjjlll]

-Buiza- 97 noooo tantas canciones le dedicó Kurt a esta tipa? pucha que estaba mal mi compadre :( de eso seguroo

[@Theloniouspunk1]

The guitar in the opening song sounds alot like Aneurysm, which was supposedly inspired by her. Coincidence (:

[@XxStonedImmaculatexX]

Dave Gibson nah, just basic punk riffs that a 2 year old can play as well lol

[@Rob-157]

She’s really pretty

[@bonmot7850]

Cool, a Bangs shirt.

[@dhofmann1000]

So cool. What a great band.

[@buck_maize111]

I bet she never thought how she would be more known for and famous from being with Kurt cobain

[@emmaduncan2991]

she's cute as hell.

[@jasonladd6400]

Kurt should have got with her or Pfaff. Picked a wrong un.

[@BettysCloset]

tobi didnt want kurt ,she like being single at the time she meet kurt .he was just fuck buddy not serious thing for her

[@Verucarock]

Kurt has taste for music ... for women ....

[@chanellee9762]

Is THIS why Courtney always talked shit about riot girl and bullied Kathleen Hannah? 😂 Jealousy

[@mauroperez1961]

Seguro se quedó muy arrepentida de botar al kurko

[@chrisuresti3898]

As he he was in his final days he hated her becuase she was trying to use him when he was famous

[@Wout.vlmnck]

Actually, that's not true. He regretted the end of their friendship because of Courtney Love faking letters and phone calls. Also, Tobi never publicly talked about Kurt after he died, because she doesn't want to add to the myth + capitalize on it.

[@Julia-zz1gq]

@@Wout.vlmnck but it would be good to hear another voice than just Courtneys, she really knew him I guess

[@Overlorddz]

So I guess 'Drain You' is about her vitamin pupils and pee. Oh and she wore Teen Spirit deodorant cause Kurt smelled like her

[@MysterySmell]

Shes so cool.....

[@straightcashhomey1261]

She blew Kurt Cobain. More than you can say

[@livestilhc]

This video is about a badass lady who's in one of the best feminist bands to ever exist and all y'all have to talk about is Kurt Cobain or how Tracy is so much prettier and sweeter than her You guys are fucking weird

[@Julia-zz1gq]

well if she would speak for once about him we wouldn't have to guess, she inspired some of the best songs that exist

[@wespaul9345]

So you saw this band did you?

[@albionangel]

I hate the way she sounds so unsure of herself with everything she says. "we started this thing called revolution girl style now..??" it sounds like she's asking a question - every answer is like that. That girly "is it ok to say this?" thing. Ugh, I hate it, and I'm a girl. It's ok to be a girl and sound sure of yourself. I love Bikini Kill, but hearing this interview always makes me grit my teeth.

[@alicerobinson8812]

it's okay to be a girl and sound unsure of yourself! (: feminism be about respecting women's choices and our right to individuality. i think she was possibly quite nervous here - she never did do much of the talking in the band. 'behind the camera' sort of person.

[@jude999]

Its called "up-talk."

[@SL-vk3bi]

Tobi not confident like Courtney. She not punk girl raw and outspoken.

[@grungepants]

I think it's an Olympia thing. They are the Valley girls of the punk scene.

[@lizethfdz8884]

Español 😢

[@Ashley-wn8cx]

She kinda looks like Betty Page

[@Fireglo]

After the breakdown right? XD

[@PenelopeHeaven]

My ears are bleeding. Thanks, bikini kill.

[@louiso.4325]

Kathleen is WAYYY more attractive. But Kurt loved her personality as a feminist I guess

[@TheLegendaryHero-up4jk]

Кэтлин красивая. Зачем ему нужна была Кортни? Кортни - самая неинтересная из всех.

[@okirrama3587]

Imagine if Tobi and Kurt ended up together?....kurt would still be alive

[@Baileywtv]

Why would he still be alive If he stayed w/ her?

[@sickandtiredt]

yeah? can tobi cure depression, possible bipolar disorder, addiction problems and chronic pain? can she erase someone's childhood trauma?

[@phineas117]

oh, I agree... I don't know what I expected here. more I guess. this is the girl that Kurt wrote about in some of his most famous songs. I guess I expected her to be more articulate.....kurt had a wonderful way with words.....

[@Wout.vlmnck]

You should read her essays, she's actually very good with words.

[@brendaluna173]

i can't believe this girl was kurt's girlfriend... maybe he really needs glasses, Tracy was so much beautiful and lovely

[@Itzsfo0]

lmfao i know your kidding

[@blueriver4484]

+brenda ikr! Tracy was always pretty and sooo nice to Kurt and loving. I dont know whats wrong with men.

[@themagicalfox6]

Looks don't mean nothing to him I guess

[@SL-vk3bi]

I think Courtney only one his girlfriend sexy. Courtney is punk girl sexy, raw and rude. I no wonder he chose her.

[@SL-vk3bi]

@@themagicalfox6 if look don’t mean to him but the end he chose Courtney.

[@mattfoley6665]

Tim Armstrong n cobain

[@JP-yc9sj]

I know, right?

[@mattfoley6665]

Pretentious Olympia hippsters

[@Itzsfo0]

worse things out there, nobody cared then nobody cares now lol

[@sheltertwo7957]

Mad that they told you the world isn’t flat?

[@RideMyBMW]

Kurt TOTALLY ripped these chix off XD

[@XxStonedImmaculatexX]

RideMyTruck you’re out of your fucking mind. Their music is mediocre and extremely predictable. Nothing like what Nirvana would be.

[@happymixtapes]

Are you real?

[@Kalanioccc]

kathleen hanna though

[@zeppeleta]

Kurt Cobain tinha um fraco por barangas....

[@XxStonedImmaculatexX]

Toby was prettier than Tracy let’s be honest about this. I wont judge Kurt, I would have thought the same thing. It just sucks that Tracy let him stay at her apartment and pretty much took care of him to let him concentrate on his music and Kurt didn’t help much. Tracy got her payback tho after she kicked him out. I bet Tracy doesn’t turn down any interviews for money to talk about Kurt tho lol

[@alexisarrizon6083]

Obviously not one of these women got enough attention as a child. Lmao As for strong female role models Stevie Nicks does it for me. With a sense of style, beauty and mysticism.

[@karinaf8326]

Kurt was a good looking dude, unfortunately he didn’t have good taste in women. He likes very average looking girls, less than average. But yeah their personalities must be what he saw.

[@bluemountainw1789]

Yeah I don’t think one woman he dated was cute. Courtney love looks like a witch and her plastic surgery is comical

[@grungepants]

When picking a lover, if they are an Artist or a musician, that goes a long way. If you are a musician or an artist it's basically a kink to sleep with another artist. I have slept with a girl who was not a stunner, but she was a musician and an artist so that was attractive.

[@themagicalfox6]

Looks dont always have to matter, good looks eventually fade, and personality is forever. Beauty doesn't keep a man either, look at all the beautiful actresses and models who have been cheated on

[@Doombug77]

She must be nervous here. She isn't very articulate.

[@profd65]

Neither are you, and I assume you're perfectly at ease. She wasn't Abe Lincoln; she was in a punk band and had an opinion.

[@phineas117]

and Kurt Cobain was with HER......emmmmmmmm maybe courtney isn't so bad after all........

[@emmaduncan2991]

this sort of shit, is pretty much as good a reason for Cobain's suicide, as anything.

[@blueriver4484]

+phineas look at old pics of courtney like 1980. Girl was uuuuuuugly before the nose job and surgeries. Tobi is a model next to courtney when you see what she looked like pre-surgery. But both arent so pretty anyhow.

[@SL-vk3bi]

@@blueriver4484 Courtney sexy and raw. I think she great on bed. Reason kurt chose Courtney. Lol 😂 He handsome and talented. I think he should have good taste women.

[@grungepants]

@@emmaduncan2991 I get your point but no one should kill themselves over people being vain.

[@monkeyliver1986]

You guys are wierd

[@saraivatoledo1842]

Your illiteracy is wirde .

[@stilweerstand8306]

kurt was a man of highly questionable taste in the female race.

[@aerawer298]

+stil weerstand what makes u think he chose to be with her?

[@asterixe1]

Toby Vail was much better looking back when Kurt was in love with her. Just look up old videos/pics of her from late 80s to early 90s. She just hasn't aged well.

[@DiegoMartinPintos]

She was much much more beautiful back in the days

[@MxMoondoggie]

She was always average looking for a girl around Olympia, Kurt was mostly taken in by her interest and knowledge of underground bands and punk rock. They showed plenty of archive footage here and she's still kinda average looking. They didn't even date for very long but people put significance on their relationship because of Nevermind and how a bunch of songs from it were written while dating her or in a hissy fit after she broke up with him because he was too clingy.

[@Itzsfo0]

taste....says it all right there, its opinion "average" looking = mere opinion, and those songs weren't written when they were dating, or even after breaking up, they were written usually during the actual production of Nevermind in mid 1991 (april and then july) in Wis. Basically some of the songs were about his brief relationship with her, how she tried to control (and joked about it) every aspect of the short relationship. Half the songs on Nevermind (Drain You, Breed, among others) were written about her & the relationship - its not really all that big of a deal, some people dont even know that, and as for her looks again nobody can speak for what Kurt saw in her (and as for aging, lol - look at Tracey Maraunder) by comparison Tobi is a swimsuit model LOL

[@Kronaphasia]

Most of the women I knew who really got into Bikini Kill were man hating lesbians bent on their own agenda from inner struggles & insecurities. It was sad/annoying to see such miss placed hate directed at men in the punk/alternative rock scene when historically it has been open to women as long as you could get on stage & rock it (that goes for anyone regardless of gender). There have been so many notable women as punk/alternative music icons that got there without spewing vitriol on half their fan base.

[@lanavita6783]

you are so obviously a man, a very pressed man. it's hilarious...

[@tsb5274]

ok..

[@PeepsILoveEllie]

sigh, you don't get it, do you. "historically it has been open to women" sure, it's easy like that, isn't it.

[@Fireglo]

I don't think man-hating women are really much of a problem in the world. Women-hating men like Elliot Rodger however...

[@brayden.the.canadian6253]

@@FiregloI’m gonna diddy

[@Miguelcafunga]

So Punk but so elitist......

[@VanishedPNW]

As most punk shit it, unfortunately.

[@voyeurkurt]

Kurt was gorgeous and she is hideous. Kurt married the most beautiful and talented one, absolutely.

[@grungepants]

Gorgeous is not enough for talented people. To keep an artists interest you need to be interesting and maybe also an artist.