England lose again to New Zealand | Can Scotland beat South Africa? | For The Love Of Rugby Podcast

[@AlexKing-qn8ri]

I love the honesty from Ben Youngs. We didn't play enough rugby to deserve the win.

[@scottybot2003]

Ant Watson is mega! Would love to see him on the pod a bit more, very insightful and speaks well in detail about the game. Fantastic addition.

[@ZambeziKid]

he talks a lot but doesnt say anything

[@duncanwcraig9668]

Well done Ben. and Anthony, great analysis. We, NZ, were fortunate to win. 205 passes to 96, top data point.

[@fletcher-1337]

Love seeing Watson on the podcast. Loads of good insights from him.

[@brianedwards3823]

Bongi Mbonami called it “plastic energy”, when English players celebrate a moment in the match like they’ve won the World Cup. I believe that in the RWC Semi and yesterday those plastic moments were the turning points in the matches going against England. Celebrate- yes- but celebrate the moment in its context. Until they can learn some emotional discipline they will continue to provide motivational moments for their opponents. I’m a Saffa BTW

[@craigmorgan4676]

Well said brother 👏 👍 👌 💪🤝🇬🇧🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦

[@limbothytimothy]

I think with those moments, history is written by the victors. If they'd come away with the win, every English fan would be applauding their passion and determination. From a performance perspective the story was the same here, our front row replacements weren't good enough. I don't think we have a pack that can come on and continue dominating like you guys have.

[@davidpearn2484]

Everyday is groundhog day with england, perhaps just perhaps they're not quite as great as people think they are.

[@banyans50]

@@davidpearn2484 Id say NZ are always a hell of a team, well drilled and capable of magic at any moment. It speaks volumes that a team like England which is often ridiculed has come within a single point during two games in NZ and then a last chance miss being all that separates them last weekend. England have struggled for consistency, now they are consistently going toe to toe with the best in the world. If Borthwick can keep the players and selection fit and focused they will start winning these tight games, its always steps to success.

[@RCB2010]

I’m English and can tell you most of us find the plastic energy to be very embarrassing. It’s a Saracens thing. Chris Ashton, who was a Saracen during their invincible period explained it as a conscious decision to create an atmosphere in a stadium which they couldn’t fill. The England captain is a Saracen plus a sizeable chunk of the national squad so it has infiltrated England. It’s so humiliating.

[@gerhardvtonder]

"Having a successful bomb squad in Test rugby is not simply about six forwards - it’s about having purpose." - Craig Ray (Daily Maverick)

[@SVAgxlxxi]

I want Watson to be a regular. he has such a great insight on this game.

[@shaunnz7444]

Great show guys. I’m a kiwi but find the Uk shows far more balanced. Ben you nailed it with your analysis and the stats to back it up. England play more rugby and they will win more games.

[@steph333-w6u]

Agree on the show except those stats show England isn't really playing much rugby at the moment.

[@harryh329]

...that's what he said.

[@geehanna6285]

Imagine calling yourself a fruit 🤦🏽‍♂️ or bird 😂

[@SlickVicOfficial]

I like Anthony. He's got a cool demeanor, and he knows his stuff. Bring him on more often

[@Tyson8887]

Absolutely love the fact you speak your mind ben , saying exactly what needs to be said. Absolute mess last 20 mins off the game. Im still not sure about steve borthwick. The attack was non existent? Be brilliant if dan cole can speak his mind and say its the coaches fault 😂 hes still got Leicester and this brilliant podcast.edit just realised joe marler spoke his mind on Friday and wss retired bye Sunday 😂😂😂

[@shaunnz7444]

Guys it’s pronounced Harker not Hacker. Great to have England oppose it as sometime us Kiwis are far too precious about it. Also we scored 3 tries and had most of the possession so I don’t think England were robbed.

[@bodybalanceU2]

i find it amazing that all english people pronounce haka wrong - it only has 4 letters in it you would think they could get it right

[@PSNrokothoko]

I'd say its just an accent thing/the variety in the way they pronounce words. Like the two ways of saying Bath, as "Baaaaath" or "Bath" with that quick "a" letter

[@stevenbissett]

The Rugby gods were pleased with the ABs three tries as opposed to England's one. That's why they won.

[@Moamanly]

@@PSNrokothoko It isn't an accent thing it is an ignorance thing. They have zero interest in getting it right.

[@harryh329]

​@@Moamanlywomp womp

[@johntumai827]

Awesome insights and knowledge from guys that have been there and done that! AB supporter here.

[@steph333-w6u]

Ben you are the first pundit I've heard point out England should not have been relying on a drop goal to win. However agree with Ant don't think any scoring scenario was going to work from that splintered scrum with AB's ferociously pushing them back and stopping them getting organised.

[@JKMeZmA]

As a neutral, it was interesting to see a team at the start of their development had more composure and a clear game plan that held up under pressure than three team with 2 years under their belt. It’s tough for England as they just don’t have the experience they used to, especially in the back line to close things out. Beauden Barrett had more caps than the entire back line. A lot of errors and they really lacked that attacking edge to actually break through and score. 3 missed drop goal attempts and one missed penalty too. They just made it so much harder for themselves when attacking and the defence was really clunky. None of the tries by the ABs were super complex, but just well executed and targeted. It’s just a bit of an odd one given how talented the English squad is and how well supported they are. Just seems like they’re not quite getting the plan right to win games and get the squad to a place where the experience needed is balanced out with hungry new talent.

[@Niko7739]

@piet0004😂😂😂

[@steph333-w6u]

AB's going through biggest overhaul since 2005 new coaches new payers, started 2024. Also having to build depth as our young players coming through are constantly being raided by French and British clubs. It's going to take another 12 months before we see -hopefully - solid results and we could suffer some painful defeats in the meantime. Still loads of exciting talent coming through. Always backing Black!

[@AllInTheGame01]

M Smith needs to be allowed to close out games & F Smith should be a bench option. Defensive lines need work to not leave props like Ellis Genge in unflattering mismatches vs lightning quick Backs! Imagine the cutting edge an ENG back-line with Prime Watson @11, Freeman/Marchant @13 & Feyi-Waboso @14 would have! Incredible that the Willis Brothers aren't options for ENG!

[@gerhardvtonder]

Talking about substitutions make me realize again, the concept of the Bomb Squad needs buy-in, the team, the management, media & supporters AND the players you bring on must be equally as good or even better!!! If not, it will lead to tears!!

[@StanWilks]

Two very articulate lads applying their knowledge of the game as current players. Love how unafraid you both are to speak candidly.

[@EdLo3]

This is the best post-match analysis I have ever heard. Well done Lenny, Ant and Sage for delivering such a clear breakdown of the game. As you say, the stats don't lie and it shows a lack of confidence and attacking mindset from England against the top teams. We are still not expressing ourselves in attack. The game has changed where tries MUST be scored if we have any chance of winning games. We have the players, now we need the ambition.

[@scottmiller4766]

It’s hard work scoring tries … even NZ struggles with the pace and defences theses day Your best chance is play like SA and kick ya goals

[@EdLo3]

I agree but neither we (nor any other team atm) have the power to match SA so we have to play more rugby and score more tries. SA get on top with their pack and force penalties at scrum time and on the ground as well. If you look at the stats from the weekend from SAGE, it is clear that we still don't play enough rugby. 'For The Love Of Rugby' podcast summarises this brilliantly. We rely too much on Ben Earl and Manny at the moment. Genge, Martin and co. should be sharing the load and putting us in a more dominate position and crucially move the point of attack. Plus we are still too defensive in the last 20 and make unnecessary substitutions. SAGE: TOTAL PASSES: 205 (NZ) vs. 96 (ENG) METRES CARRIED: 964 (NZ) vs. 594 (ENG) If we had the fitness to produce similar stats to the ABs at the weekend, potentially we could have won by a couple of scores (wishful thinking perhaps because we are not as fluid at the All Blacks) but like we did against Ireland, we can move the ball now. We just need to play more rugby and crucially keep Marcus Smith on for 70-80 minutes. He is our danger man.

[@richardlawrence3056]

A finishing attack based mindset v a defensive one starts with the coach. Ford is more defensive, kicking orientated flyhalf. Smith staying on continuing to attack is a good example.

[@Leoatwallacerockhole]

Kiwi here Haka was Xclent response Xclent spectator response Xclent. After 100 years Haka has undergone a huge transformation with a spiritual buy in by the AB,s and why they perform the Haka love it hope it survives and evolves over the next 100 years.

[@teawaruaedwards274]

Maori also brought a different attitude and Phyisical awareness to a rather DOUR GAME when it came to RUGBY. The Tough Resilient FARMER Pioneer mixed with the ADAPTIVE ATHLETIC WARRIOR....BANG!! BEST RUGBY Players ever.😊

[@stefanschouteden5196]

Let us be honest, anyone that has real love for rugby likes the fact that those teams that want and have the ability to play a running game win these type of tight tests at the end. People watch rugby for the physicality and the tries being scored. Nobody likes the boring kicking game which is characteristic for the English game. Well done, All Blacks. You deserved it! Not a single tear for the roses... Regarding the comments - nonsense that the game should have been won after 60 min. The game lasts 80! Ask the All Blacks, judging from their last couple of games with the Boks!

[@joelchihota4994]

Amazing work, waiting for the next upload

[@joep5865]

Great pod as always. Ben looking like he had at least 15 pints enjoying the game the day before!

[@paulhigley1208]

Loving your new rugby pod gents. Amazing and relevant content, great guests and so insightful from a players perspective. Really enjoyable as a listener Keep up the fantastic work ❤🙏🙌👏

[@LindsayTeWhare-l9v]

AB's congrads v England comiserations. This was a good game for both sides & the public certainly got their monies worth. England played tremendously well together as well as the AB's. The game could've gone either way, the English really had the game in their hands where they had two good opportunities through a penalty & a drop goal. Unfortunately they couldn't convert, game over AB's take the win. Way to go AB's, boys you'll have to tidy up some key areas catch & pass, execution of plays & disabling. Especially your disapline that's creeping into your game bigtime. If these can be achieved in your game against Ireland, watch out Ireland could be a long day at the office, Go the AB's.

[@kev63inuk]

Great point by Ben and it did cross my mind that in preparation for this game were we trying to bed in the new defence coach . Attack didn’t look good and I’m hoping that first game up of the autumns we have to be realistic that not everything fizzes.

[@tarighd]

Ant Watson has good insights. Get him back.🎉

[@888young2]

Thanks youngs for your honesty

[@horfieldboy9478]

Great show guys, it is really good to hear you express opinions and not hold back - I also happen to agree 100% with you. The big worry with England is we are playing by numbers. I worry the loss of the recent coaches has taken us backwards. Winning is a habit and so is losing! There is huge potential in this team and we are not progressing as much as we would hope. Much better than EJ's tenure and I am enjoying the rugby and I'd rather be entertained and lose than watch dire rugby, irrespective of the result.

[@Cssssssst]

Up the might Abs 🔥

[@davidmanning7912]

There's a lot of excitement about Mani Fayu-Ibosi's pace, understandably, but Will Jordan had further to run and was gaining on him massively. Jordan's pace is electric. Video review discussions over the PA system is great for the crowd and player understanding, so should help get the game moving more quickly once the decision is made

[@rowanwhite2941]

Easier to run faster without the ball i would have thought but yes Will J was rapid

[@ianjacobs2998]

Why did England go for 3 points before half time??? Instead of going for "full" points 🇿🇦 🇿🇦i

[@shanef517]

The point Ben makes around England creating tight games is great

[@steph333-w6u]

There's your problem right there.Trying to defend an 8pt lead against the AB's.

[@RashaadRyland]

Wrt the English subs, it is clear for all & sundry that their coach tried to replicate Rassie and their bomb squad, but it failed miserably because England simply don't have the same cattle as the boks.

[@djdjae]

Why was Marcus taken off he should have stayed out there he was on fire 🔥 from a NZ fan great game 🤝

[@specialistcarmarketing]

Best analysis I've heard so far

[@944CoyoteV8]

England should have definitely lost from that position. Their points almost all came from their opposition's lack of discipline. To stop the English from getting points the ABs just had to follow the rules. That being said, England were a great team and put up a great fight. The hits and the defence in general were awesome.

[@timfy2010]

Flip side of that indiscipline by the ABs is that the English attack would have been more threatening if a few of the runners were allowed to run their lines rather than being tackled off the ball repeatedly. Was it 10 pens conceded by half-time, 4 of which were for tackling off the ball? That's due to attacking pressure IMO.

[@bruceradburnd4496]

There has been much said about how good the NH under 20 teams have been of late. The NZ team in 2020 in the midst of Covid didn’t get an opportunity to show their skill. Siti was the number 8 in that team along with Peter Laki and Oliver Haig. These three players are made for test rugby. There is some serious talent coming through the NZ system at present that will be boosting NZ at the 2027 WC and only peaking at the next. Siti is getting better every game. this kid has only played 7 club games before making the All Blacks. not even scratched the surface of how good he could be

[@jamienorwood6855]

Be great to have Anthony on more, he's class 👏 Ben great as usual, such good insight. Arguably could have beat New Zealand 3 times this year, but ended up losing them all, are the team fearing the name 'All Blacks' rather than the actual team itself you're up against? 🤔 (Hope that makes sense)

[@mickjames7896]

Have a look at the Ireland v Boks and see how the Great Wall was used so many players taken out off the ball so great new rule

[@stanley626]

The score was close but the game wasn’t. England never looked like scoring a try and put next to no pressure on the All Black line. If a few passes had stuck, or the ABs discipline hadn’t let them down it would have been a 20 point difference……

[@bjornhoffmann6008]

Enjoying this channel! Why do I feel that other international teams and ex players have a different perspective to the subs as the Boks have? The Boks see the bench as a privilege, designed to get over the line. And often those changes are predetermined, and the players they're replacing are superstars but happy to give it up for the greater purpose

[@JB-X]

If NZ did not give away unnecessary off the ball tackle penalties, would the score have been this close? Only the penalties kept them in the game. Also, if I recall, all of them were basically in front of the up rights. I feel that if NZ's discipline was better they would have run away with this game.

[@nickwake5484]

Penalties tend to indicate a team under pressure + Less penalties could mean more England scores. Hard one to call.

[@pixelpotato4874]

Ben,you said to Handre Pollard that England would beat the All Blacks,and obviously they should've,but when Marcus went off for George, honestly I thought,we got this.

[@Moneyalmenial]

Watson spot on about NZ tidying up their errors, penalties, turnovers making a huge difference.

[@chrisp4170]

Ben's analysis is spot on. That last passage of play was brainless. Totally brainless.

[@Rabbs-i6b]

I think the reason our stats are bad is because we kick the ball way too much. What’s the point of having these exciting players and never keeping the ball in hand. It’s so frustrating to see us box kick 9 out of 10 times at every breakdown, it also makes it easy for the oppositions defensively.

[@Johnnyboy-192]

I’ll come back here to see Ben eat his words once the weekend of rugby is done.

[@Johnnyboy-192]

Yo Ben. Eat up mate 🤣🤣

[@90DaysOfDevOps]

Why was Marcus Smith taken off? I love that England are trying to play but it’s high risk rugby and needs to be a blend of structure and sporadic.

[@Randombourg]

3 points in 90 minutes! "This is not soccer!"

[@kurupt7154]

Ben earl a better athlete than Sititi? I’ll have what he’s having 😂

[@vrry8835]

LOL I bet Ben Earl would be the first to say Sititi is playing with cheat codes enabled. Thats a wild take by Watson.

[@chrismawby1805]

If the All Blacks had played well and not given away so many penalties England would have lost by 20 points, England just aren’t moving on. South Africa will expose the England weakness. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory again.

[@nickmarr1]

I think Steve Borthwick is rugby’s Gareth Southgate - a solid, dependable, ‘safe pair of hands’ coach. I really do hope that he begins to allow the right players to shine in the right positions with a little more flow and creative spark - unlike Southgate…

[@MrCravendish]

It is interesting to see current players (recent internationals) saying the same thing fans and pundits are about England. Here's a question, if Steve Borthwick has pre-determined changes is this because it's so he can tell his players when they are coming on? Is he simply being too nice and trying to not let anyone down? Seems unlikely for an international coach but I'm trying to understand why he would do it.

[@steph333-w6u]

Also wonder if the lack of England creativity might have been to do with NZ defensive pressure. Why haven't the England attack clicked after a fair bit of time..I think your forwards tried to carry and were stopped.

[@designmanagementconsultanc4143]

Copying the Springboks with the replacements but no need to do it if you dont have the bomb squad with very specific role to play

[@nartnee8596]

The haka in rugby league they get in each others face and that hypes up both teams

[@beejallison8283]

England maybe should have won at 22-14 ahead but equally you could argue that ABs would think England should have not got there with giving away an intercept when u hot on attack

[@pdublt3d]

You can feel the energy in England change when they go from chasing to leading. If they keep their same mindset through the whole game, they probably close it out. Easier said than done, obviously.

[@CraigMinnie]

English have always been competitive. You have always had a decent pack of physical forwards .Now you have some dynamic backs .Problem is your scrum has got better but again if you honest cost you this game in the last 20 minutes. Cant blame Ford , the scrum was on rollerskates in the last 20 .If your scrum gets sorted you will win these close games .Its not even about dominanting the scrum , just parity will enable your dynamic backs to get into the game .

[@honahwikeepa2115]

Tries are harder to get but the AB managed 3 beauties. England are definitely better at kicking the ball.

[@marcuslouisson5498]

not that good based on the final result

[@MrAkeats]

Ollie lawrence has been on fire in the prem but we never use him in attack for England, I can't understand it

[@dulls8475]

We lose because of our front row. We just dont have 6 players to give us world class depth. Our scrum has cost us in very big games recently. Fords kick was because of a scrum under pressure.

[@beejallison8283]

ABs lot more linebreaks double the amount England blitz D works treat most of the time .. Marcus Smith such good player but taking Dropkicks under advantage is a bit silly

[@ThomasCouper-h3f]

Good discussion gents. England need to play more rugby they have the players just not the plan. ABs we’re not great though and Antony’s comment about Earl being a better athlete than Sititi is surely false. Both in the same mould but Sititi clearly bigger and faster.

[@beejallison8283]

Sititi the biz ain’t he woo wee lotsa good players on both sides but our ABs got a good one there

[@DuncanWillis62]

Saffa fan here. Have a British dad. Rugby mad! Positives/key players - Smith , Cunningham-South & Itoje. All 3 immense! Rush defense epic! Scrums good in first half. Negatives Ford. His defence is weak. Scrums second half after reserves were weak, many scrum penalties. Surely you have some props in your clubs to blood now for 2027? Captaincy/coaching looks like Smith being replaced was scripted. Leave you best player on the field!

[@rugbyanalyst1]

Is it an English mentality in sport once leading, to keep the lead and not go for the jugular? Borthwick's changes reminded me of Gareth Southgate.

[@atoms-to-atoms]

Score flattened England...As Smith should not have been replaces; Damien McK should have started.

[@PTDog]

Ben Earl could be a better athlete than Wallace Sititi??! 👀😂😂

[@jeff77200]

Great episode chaps.... I am starting to wonder if it's a Steve Brothwick thing and not adapting to coaching international rugby... In my opinion he needs to change his mindset...

[@guyveegee]

Good to see Ben angry. It's alright to be completely fed up of such a poor opportunity fumbled at the end. What on earth.

[@SalemTotal]

Your only try came from an intercept.... id say our defence is better than youre saying.

[@hanoitripper1809]

If nz didn’t cynically knock down/ unrealistically intercept attacking raids or illegally tackle support runners constantly Eng would have more tries

[@SalemTotal]

@hanoitripper1809 really? Because all those things lead to penalties where England could have attacked, but didn't because they can't. 😉

[@hanoitripper1809]

@@SalemTotal you must be new to rugby 🤣 😏

[@SalemTotal]

@@hanoitripper1809 you must be intellectually incompetent 🤷‍♂️🥱

[@Londonman564]

NO WORDS JUST 😂😂😂

[@notenoughstones3873]

The root cause of Englands loss was that NZ started dominating the scrum and up front generally in the last quarter. Even if Spencer and M Smith stayed on, they would have got poor quality ball too. Also would Marcus have made that tackle on Telea? Telea beats much better defenders so very doubtful IMO. Easy to say it was wrong to sub them in hindsight but ultimately the pack is what cost England and allowed NZ back in.

[@AlphaIncorporated]

Great show. Ben is angry. Sorry, man. I like hearing name-drop stories. They're exciting. G'luck next game.

[@steph333-w6u]

You say our defence isn't key but SA andI Ireland both struggle to break it.

[@SBW_85]

Why go for 3’s when there’s tries on offer? England still playing like it’s the 1990’s, off the pace!

[@jeanm27]

England got seriously screwed by the new rules and not being able to adapt to them fast enough...

[@Temp-z4u]

England absolutely butchered that last 10 mins ... More difficult to lose that game than win it .. well done AB

[@designmanagementconsultanc4143]

Can they beat the Boks? Looking strong

[@beejallison8283]

Pass from Randall was bad but slow ball that needed to be dug out was not good

[@chaz3000]

Still think big Tony can do a job in that England starting line up. Get him in there

[@mitcheljeavons2182]

When we were trying to attack we were forcing NZ to commit infringements with taking players out. Why not keep attacking with ball in hand forcing those errors, NZ would of had multiple cards that game much earlier, yes you don't aim to play against 14 but they were doing that in defence to prevent us from attacking. The stats prove we should attacked more. With such a low amount of passes ect we still were only 3 line breaks less, if we were anywhere near the amount of carries of NZ surely we break the line more than they did?

[@beejallison8283]

England should have gone to the corner in that 1st half

[@AshB-2407]

Top 5 wings ... IMO Kolbe, Penaud, Arendse, James Lowe, Telea,

[@steph333-w6u]

I"m a Kiwi but Cheslin is the bomb.Would be my pick for Player of the Year

[@JTAIT-b7g]

😆

[@LJFN213]

Arendse is average compared to the others id rather have either of the scots or caleb Clarke

[@AshB-2407]

@LJFN213 Take them. Give me Arendse above those any day. Having said that I do rate Caleb & all 3 Scotland wings.

[@chrisbossman1978]

Is this in Top 5 order? I agree with 1. Kolbe, 2. Penuad, 3. Telea, and then James Lowe and either Duan van der Merwe or Clarke, Arendse definitely not in top 5.

[@mahlanguism]

I’m a Saffa and I can unequivocally say that Scotland can beat us. I see storm clouds ahead for us.

[@steph333-w6u]

have faith and unleash your backs! Scotland will be a great match but I back the Boks to get it done!

[@CoNeSol]

Ben needs to use visuals to explain what he means as it will have a much greater imapct We must see what he is saying - becuase even the guest is perplexed by what he is saying.

[@kenmason9354]

Why take Smith off🤐 it went wrong after subs😢

[@ShanePleasance]

England needs its own game. Most of their points were scored off NZ's errors, and NZ will make fewer errors over time.

[@JPF468]

England didn’t have mental strength to win from 22-14. They were just playing with the idea in the head that NZ were coming back at them.

[@XxBaDmAn99xX]

England don’t seem to want to play an expansive game attacking-wise. It seems their strategy is built on tactical kicking, regathering, winning penalties and kicking for 3s, with the odd cross kick here and there. Whilst they’re ultra physical defensively, offensively they’re too strict with no real aim of leveraging the wingers, i.e., feyi-waboso or freeman. Their tactics work well for the first 55-60 mins and they’re very good at executing the strategy, but beyond that unless they’re willing to play out and wide, they will always be trying to hold on to victories. Unless they’re willing to be more explorative in their attack, they’re not going to get over the hump against the SAs, NZs, France or Irish. They will continue to be a good team, but not a great team.

[@iamjasonzeeman]

You honestly cannot sit there and say that England should have won when you look at THOSE stats!

[@Keranofkri]

Could not disagree more with Anthony on the set up youngs is bang on that was silly. Realise the situation 2 men down we wanted to play phase rugby there...what are we talking about.

[@peterwomersley]

more box kicking with the new rules will turn into more yellow and red card

[@4evaavfc]

Scotland can win if they play well. South Africa are deserved champs, but as the Pumas showed, are beatable.

[@nigel8484]

While we are experimenting, we are beatable.😢 When we are locked in and focused. Good luck to any team😊

[@ianjacobs2998]

The reactions of the English players,when they do something "positive"is 🤣😂.... ( As if the've won the match already

[@Temp-z4u]

England roo scared to do lineout drive ??? Everyone does that now !!!

[@beejallison8283]

George Martin got one good chance to carry under penalty advantage 10-15 out and he spills it!! Tupou spilt 1 too yikes with line open fwd pass tho only blight on Sititi only blemish

[@davidwalker2402]

Celebrating winning a tackle like you won the game is embarrassing, leave celebrations until you win. How can the English team think they have won just because they win a turnover. It smacks of ridiculous over confidence in a team that keeps losing . They did the same against Scotland and got smacked about the place. Coach Bortwick will never be good enough last 7 won 2 lost 5 how bad do England look.