Enneagram Type 4 - The Romantic

[@ollynlola]

I just discovered being a type 4 and my whole life suddenly makes sense ❤ wish I'd discovered this about myself years ago

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

The enneagram is amazing that way, isn’t it? For me it was like I met myself for the first time when I landed on my type. I too wish I had discovered the enneagram years sooner. The important thing is you’ve discovered it now and every step forward can be filled with conscious awareness!

[@ladyraspberry]

This video makes me sound like I'm depressed and self-centered and that I am not.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Don’t get tangled in the shadow, which is what I often focus on in episodes. If you’ve done a lot of work, you won’t express this way. But it’s still in the enneagram dance. Thanks for commenting. (And feel free to express what it is like to live out your 4 from a higher expression!).

[@ladyraspberry]

@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher upon further consideration, I realize that some of this is contingent upon one's personality type, so we react accordingly. I am an infj, for whatever that's worth, and I refuse to sit and stew in a pity party, and I focus on others more than myself, but I will pull the plug if I am neglected. I also don't do drama. Although once I've had enough it may come across that way. I admit, I am the definition of a walking contradiction.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

@@ladyraspberry very interesting insights! I'm wondering if you might be able to 4w5 with that INFJ?

[@liug_yiuh]

Depression is different from just being moody - even if you mean very very very moody. We are a little too stubborn and passionate IMHO to develop depression. It's not deep depression, it's despair and it gets rightaway (self)destructuve. We can get lost in our fantasies for hours on end (4s on the unhealthy spectrum), but we ride an emotional roller coaster to get stuck on one thing alone. Depression (clinically) means being somehow stuck, not being able to feel anything, or to change a feeling that swallows oneself and so things get slow mo. We get slow motion from despair, but that isn't depression. Great God! We DO feel things and I mean a LOT of them. Fast changing emotions. Even if it means getting from grief to joy and then grief again and then sadness. Our slow motion, I repeat is desperation, which you happened to mention right afterwards. I'm getting concerned with this mixing of notions, though you were pretty good at explaining everything else. Depression is like being tied with an elastic - it always pulls you back to the initial spot; being a moody 4is like riding a jumping ball jumping from here to there from thorns to a surface of heated iron, to something itchy etc., causing us feel pain. I recommend 'Melancholia' by Lars vonTrier, for a better understanding of what being truly depressed is.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

It’s all a spectrum and of course context matters greatly. Appearing depressed doesn’t always equate clinical depression. For instance the fast changing emotions has validity and I agree with your assessment, but it also depends where on the 4 spectrum the 4 is and how much work they’ve done, not to mention wings, stress and security types and subtypes. One thing you’ll never get out of my work is solid absolutes. The enneagram is fluid. Thanks so much for commenting!

[@liug_yiuh]

I liked very much how you separated what is a high expression in this type and what is a low expression.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Thanks for commenting. This is the essence of the enneagram to me… we are never just one expression; we hold all the reflections of our type. And when we are enneagram-aware we can better choose our expression (higher self over shadow self). Glad the information resonated!

[@Mia.Lopes-22]

It resonates with me . I am a 4 wing 5.

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Thanks for the feedback! Glad the episode resonated!

[@JerrTheHooman]

Thank you. This is very helpful. I am a 4 wing 5 and I feel like the deep feeling core of the 4 is always at war with the logical side of my 5 wing. I have made a habit of intellectualizing emotions and not outwardly expressing them because they feel too big and volatile but I'm now reaping the consequences and finding that emotional suppression is manifesting as physical symptoms. My shoulders/neck are always sore and tense, my chest is always tense/ I have heart palpitations often. I'm chipping my teeth from clenching and grinding them, getting headaches, upset stomach/nausea, etc because my 5 wing wants to compartmentalize the big stuff and not deal with it. Then eventually I find myself bawling while driving home from work and then trying to wait it out until I look normal to go into the house and not make my 8 husband, suspicious 😂 I'm aware that not expressing this stuff contributes to me feeling alone and isolated so I'm trying to work on slowly letting people in. Not necessarily just the big stuff/venting, but generally into my world because I feel like a "quack doctor, hermit, fringe of society, mad man". Like I'm looking at the world, "out there" and I'm not a part of it but I am. I just have to act like it and believe that, myself

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Oh my gosh, first I’m so sorry you have experienced all this! And yes, the low side of type will express itself in the body… so many people walking around on this planet who don’t understand this. I’m also so glad you have found insight into the enneagram and the somatic connection to the work and that you are sharing your experience here for others to learn. Most importantly, figuring out who to safely let into your kingdom is huge, so keep going with that. The body will respond in kind to that kind of experience is safety. Keep on the path of doing this work. It changes everything! Thanks again for sharing.

[@loloppololp9304]

I feel really called out 😂 especially the shopping addictiin

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Glad the episode resonated! Thanks for commenting!

[@pgem2197]

Only 3 minutes in and I already feel more seen than I have ever

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Glad it’s resonating for you! Thanks so much for commenting! 🙏🏼

[@Dolph-fe2ks]

"How the hell do I properly Articulate this" >>>>> "Who could understand this." That's how I experience it

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

I can see that being a real Type 4 experience. Thanks for sharing that insight!

[@jessicajoerndt428]

Hi, I’m a four (wing 3) here, and I love your description! Every single thing about a four, both unhealthy and healthy, I have experienced. One question I have, though, is, as an artist, and someone who loves acting, singing, storytelling etc, I often do live in a fantasy world, and I don’t think that’s something that’s necessarily unhealthy. For an artist, it’s part of who we are and vital for our work. I believe it can be unhealthy if it controls our way of communication, if it causes us to constantly be introverted, effects our mental health, if it causes us to not get things done, then, yes. But most successful artists in the world always have a fantasy place that they go to because at the end of the day, we do feel like that is where we feel most seen and understood and some of the greatest works of art come from those deeper darker moments, and sometimes more lighthearted, fantasies and moments. And I don’t think that is something that will ever go away, for a lot of us who embrace it and use it for self expression. What do you think about that and how can fours still allow themselves to feel all of these deep and dark feelings, create these stories and ideas in their head without letting it cause them to spiral into a depression or deep loneliness because I have definitely felt that and sometimes it is really hard to get out of. I often feel like I am lacking in my relationships where I can express these things and connect on a deeper level and that is really tough for me. I’m thankful to have a couple of friends who can tolerate it and relate to it. I feel like I go between healthy and unhealthy in different bouts. But the more I work through it the healthier I feel like I am becoming in general. Another interesting thought is that, I definitely have a sense of self-righteousness when it comes to my type, and the way I believe people should be. Some of that comes from my type one father, and my deep sense of morality that I get from my relationship to the type one. But on the other hand, hearing how many other types genuinely lack connection to self, lack self awareness, lack emotional depth and expressing it , etc., I do feel that objectively type 4s do have something a little bit special and unique that we offer to the world that helps the world heal and reflects humanity. Just looking at the amount of art that has helped the world, and help people heal. It is frustrating when I am trying to get my family to understand me and trying to get them to open up their hearts more, and through the Enneagram, not only have I realized my own downfalls and theirs, but I have also realized how many other types are truly lacking in the self awareness and emotional depth and ability to heal that the type four has. I have struggled a lot with my family in this way, and while I feel bad for being overly critical at times, and overly dramatic, I also feel like it’s coming from a true place at the end of the day. The world will be so much healthier and safer and more loving if everyone were more in touch with their intuition and emotions, in a healthy way, of course. What do you think?

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

I do agree that the fantasy world of the 4 can make for talented artists. I think the key is how wide the extremes are in the 4's behavior. If the 4 is spending most of their time in Shadow, that's not ideal. I would caution against using the enneagram to get others to understand you. Helen Palmer teaches that the enneagram is an "inside job." The enneagram is really for us, and for our own evolution, not to prove who we are to those around us. Those who don't "understand us" may have their own work to do (and none of us can make them do that).

[@mattdouglas1050]

As a 4(w5) myself, who's studied enneagram off and on for almost 20 years, you're falling into a dangerous type 4 trap. The enneagram shows that everyone has something special, not just type 4; we 4s just particularly like feeling special. Everyone has the ability to heal, everyone has the ability to create art. I wouldn't even say we 4s are more creative per se than other types, rather that we're unconventional and therefore our creativity is more easily noticed. Back in the days of chatboards (they're still around but not so much) you couldn't go to an enneagram board without some not so healthy 4s trying to out 4 the other 4s. You write "The world will be so much healthier and safer and more loving if everyone were more in touch with their intuition and emotions, in a healthy way, of course." I think this line inadvertantly shows what the enneagram needs that most ennenthusiasts are too scared to touch... intersentionality. Because being out of touch with intuition and emotion isn't a problem, it's a symptoom... of capitalism and colonialism. Think of the most common bullshit line used when the pigs gun down an innocent Black man or woman, "I feared for my life." It may be bullshit (always is bullshit) by the pig who uttered the line, but it is a rationale based on one's feeling state. Now there are indeed benefits to being self-aware, and I think to think I'm pretty good in that department, but such self-awareness has done a damn thing to stop the IDF from murdering Palestinian children. Hard to heal when you're dead.

[@jessicajoerndt428]

@@mattdouglas1050 I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I agree that every type has something special about them, however, the reason that type four often do feel so misunderstood, is because we are the most in touch with our emotions and capacity for depth, and healing (since that is the root of it) more so than any other types. It could be different for you being that you have the 5 wing which makes you more logical. My friend is a 5 and she’s very aware of her emotions but struggles to actually express them and connect with others (another part of healing). Therefore, it can be hard for a lot of us 4s to connect deeply to others. Because others aren’t interested in that. Generally speaking. After studying psychology and therapy for the past six or seven years that I’ve been in it, being able to tap into that part of yourself is absolutely crucial. And obviously, yes, colonialism, and the fucked up world we are in has made that extremely difficult. For myself included, we’ve all been affected by colonialism. But I’ve been the first in my family, and out of most of my friends, who are all different types, to dive into that world within myself to work on healing, and now I am helping my family heal. that’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s harder for a lot of other people to do just because it’s based on their personality type- and emotional depth and expression is part of healing- confronting our traumas. I think that’s where the type four really can help heal people. We help people open up. Just naturally, not with any kind of degree or studying needed. Other types, and I know them all, that’s not necessarily their forte, although there’s other areas where they are better. But fours are most naturally acquainted with the human connection, which is where healing begins, and with our emotions and helping others tap in to those. so even people are going through trauma, whatever they are, and whatever that trauma is, having the ability to confront those emotions and self soothe and work through those is a gift honestly. Not every type has that natural ability, but obviously is capable of going to therapy and finding out how to do that for themselves. I just think for fours- as she said in the video- Are the most natural and intuitive when it comes to that and I believe that something that all types should try for because obviously, knowing yourself emotionally and being able to grow and heal in that way is vital to knowing ourselves and knowing other people. It’s actually a lot of what’s fucked up about the world. Lack of sensitivity, lack of emotional awareness, all of that. This is why the majority of actors and artists come from the type four category. Art really changes and heals the world. Artists aren’t afraid of their emotions and telling those stories.

[@jessicajoerndt428]

@@mattdouglas1050 Also - I’m obviously not talking about Palestinian children who are being murdered right now, nothing will save them except for the bombing to stop. but I will say that a lot of people who go onto to help others and share their stories with the worlds are the ones that are most in touch with their emotions and not afraid of the healing process after trauma 😭 works that way too. Whether they’re Palestinian, black, or white.

[@jessicajoerndt428]

@@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher Yes that’s exactly it…the eeneagram is definitely helping me understand my family so much better. It’s been so enlightening for me. And it’s also helping me explain myself to my family and some of my bad habits like being in a fantasy world for 2 long, how that can affect my relationships and feelings of being misunderstood. I want my family to heal because it’s caused problems with our relationships….so Iven been sending them some videos about their type and I’m hoping that will help them heal a little so we can be closer as a family. I’m the only one in my family who has truly worked on my traumas and am able to confront them so it makes for an emotionless family connection ya know? I have also felt the extremes of the unhealthy 4 behaviors and they can be dark. It’s important for us to be connected to our craft and creativity but in balance like you said.

[@noturbo]

yeah heart centre for sure my heart has been hurting all my life that i can remember 💔

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

That sounds deeply and authentically Type 4. I hope your heart finds healing. Thank you for commenting. 🙏🏼

[@noturbo]

Thanks

[@noturbo]

This (Seafret - Oceans)

[@TaraDoris-ib3fz]

Fabulous video

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

Thanks! 🤗

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

Blessed woman! Thank you!

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

You are welcome!

[@piscessun3087]

I just recently realized I'm a type 4,,,,all these years. I thought I was a 9 Is that common for a 4 to think they're a nine?

[@mariamandarino-wisdom-teacher]

It definitely can be! Nines love to merge. And 4s love connection. The distinction is 9s do this with the goal of creating harmony (if they understand you, they can meet your needs and avoid conflict). Fours do it because they really love going deep… it helps them feel seen, as if they have a place with someone who gets their depth and unique way of looking at life. One of the considerations is are you seeking harmony (9) or are you seeking depth and connection (4)? Lots of other factors, but that’s a good place to start. You might check out my type 4 and type 9 episodes for added insights. Thanks for commenting!

[@liug_yiuh]

I thought I was a nine too. Than misidentified as a two and only like two years ago found my place.