Enough is enough! Mythic Games has no hope of recovery

[@phloog]

Can we legally force them to change their name to Sunk Cost Fallacy Games?

[@BreinGames]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, well, I’m an idiot. But shame on you. Fool me three times, I’m an accomplice. Why don’t people just come right out and call them bad people. Thieves. Criminals? Why try and give them a chance by just saying they’re bas at running a business? Drag them out for what they really are. The fact that they’re not apologizing is the biggest indicator of a con.

[@Rich_H_1972]

There's an old saying: "Don't throw good money after bad".

[@derrickhittson66]

The additional part that has me debating paying that gets lost in this is that this was supposed to be kickstarter only. We got the all in with the idea that if we didn't like it we could sell it and get most of our investment back, but that's not the case anymore. Then, just like wave 1 that it will be heavily discounted in Mythic's store and at retailers. More broken promises to pile on this ever-growing list. We also didn't end up liking the Darkest Dungeon, it was clearly rushed out and under developed. Great minis but you search and organize them more than you actually have them on the table.

[@AlwayzFresh]

This is one of the reasons I am so pissed off. I don't want the game anymore, I have not even opened it. However, I cannot sell it as Mythic is undercutting me by selling it for half price, which they can do since those copies were already paid for by backers who are not getting it. They are selling each copy twice, and still asking for more money.

[@evrenhalavut9207]

I am one of the people who ordered the game through their store, but that was another scam. Yes, the game was on sale at 50% discount, but after I bought it (by paying the additional inflated shipping fees) they sent me an email thanking for my pre-order. So they had no intention to ship the game and perhaps they didn't have a game, and they didn't mention it was a pre-order either. Later on, I saw the game in retail stores in my area. Long story short, these people are criminals and I have no idea whether I should also pay any extra to get my game which is from wave 1, but I have no interest in this shitty company. I will cut my losses and move on since I have zero expectation at this point. The only thing I hope is that the money I paid helps the original backers like yourselves...

[@AndreasKohlos]

As a long-time follower of yours, this was your „best“ video so far, imho. Authentic and important. Thank you. I hope that it’s gonna have an according impact within the industry.

[@ChrisRichardsonwtfgamer]

I talked to Privateer Press at Gen Con and they put it simply. "Would you want us to sue them and put them out of business or do you want a chance of getting your game." Mythic gets tons of heat for trying to do SOMETHING. You know who doesn't get this kind of press? Holy Grail Games. Because they just shut their doors with the games already produced. They shipped them off to box houses to get what cash they could and then they bailed. I just bought what was probably my copy of Rallyman Dirt off Amazon. It's just the base game. I paid for the all in pledge. Where's the outrage over that kind of action? You think that did any good for the industry? You think those backers who just pissed money away are going back to the Kickstarer/Gamefound wells any time soon? So what does kicking Mythic while they are down really get you beyond clicks? Pay, or pay not. There is no whine.

[@raphaelperry8159]

Nice to get your opinion on this, King. As I mentioned in my video, I suspect that some of this money is going towards making up for all those refund requests they've been handling.

[@krs4395]

they've been reselling the refunded stock to backers on their website and they're often sold out, so I don't think that's the reason.

[@raphaelperry8159]

I know, one of the 50% off sales emails started with "it's not a purchase. It's an investment." That felt suspiciously like they wanted us to become ebay resellers to me.

[@kumanight]

I really feel for all the backers stuck in this situation. Mythic is holding your games and money hostage :(

[@pixelninja5845]

No different than gambling in Vegas. No one is buying a game; they are investing in a game, or more precisely, investing in a company. So I suppose the old adage for Vegas holds true for Kickstarter/Gamefound, etc.; never gamble with money you can't afford to lose.

[@robsomethin4415]

​@@pixelninja5845you're not even investing. If you were investing, you'd get stock in the company or a future revenue share if it succeeds

[@chpunisher2005]

@@pixelninja5845 This is pretty much how I see it. Don't get me wrong, I'm still pissed about their Rainbow 6 game and predicably it is being delayed again. When they asked for the last ransom, they INSISTED that it would ship in Oct of this year. Even though production hadn't really started yet. This was in June 2023 I believe. I definitely didn't believe them because I've been in enough KSs to know better. Their Sept 8th, 2023 update stated that the mass injection had JUST started. The delivery date went from Oct 2023 to March/April 2024. I'm fully expecting more delays.

[@mrsteve4569]

I’ve paid extra on exactly two campaigns. One was Oathsworn, and they were very transparent on the situation so I had no concerns giving them extra. The second was Blacklist Games Fantasy Series 1, and I would not have paid it except the money was going directly to QML. Will I pay in the future for other projects? That’ll be a case by case, but not likely. Rewarding bad behavior and mismanagement by tossing good money at bad just seems like a foolish endeavor. Take the loss, move on, and keep an eye out for those bad actors who might try to pop up again in crowdfunding. If I were in this project? No way. There are too many red flags here.

[@1AngelAlita]

It's either pay or get nothing. I paid and it's probable they will deliver. That's all.

[@thinhman2010]

Thanks for these videos about Mythic Games. Will be avoiding projects from them in the future until we start seeing consecutive successful campaigns.

[@Kelfuma]

The first kickstarter I ever backed was Solomon Kane by Mythic Games. As the original delivery date neared, they stated they would further delay the game by another year to further develop the narrative and I got a refund because that sort of thinking can lead to an endless cycle of delays based on similar reasoning. Mythic Games struggles with setting goals and STICKING to them.

[@Heidelmann]

Hmm just like what Succubus is doing with Middara. And I suspect Stormsunder.

[@Bobario1]

In all fairness that has been par for the course for kickstarters for while. They NEVER release on schedule. I went all in on Solomon Kane and luckily it got delivered before the wheels started to come off at Mythic. Not all backers were so lucky. A lot of people got nothing at all from their pledge. All I lost was one bad mini that is available on Miniature Market for $4. Though I begrudge paying for it because they said they would send out replacements for free.

[@Heidelmann]

@@Bobario1 I knew there would be a delay for Middara Act 2 & 3 because Succubus has a track record of slow development. What I did not expect was that they would revise and redesign Act 1 twice over. Opening the PM every year seemed fine to let more folks get a pledge in and get more one off resin sales. But not to grind out iterations of an already serviceable Act 1 when your customers are waiting half a decade for promised expansions.

[@Bobario1]

So has it been delivered yet?@@Heidelmann

[@Heidelmann]

@@Bobario1 Not yet.

[@harmarize]

I assume for the admin portal, they didnt want to pay the salaries to make something more fancy. That is basically what I give my boss as a MVP jsut to see if it works, then go back and spazz it up (although even then Id probably still have a bit better UI for a MVP)

[@utahman06]

Praying they just cut bait and sell Hel off to a CMON and the new publisher mercifully throws us a bone and let’s us contribute some discounted price for the game or something.

[@thebrewgeek]

Refund requested 5/12/23. All I received was an automated "support ticket generated" reply. (Edit to add that this was for Anastyr).

[@TheMastersForge]

I only got in on Siege. Asked for refund initially but thats not happening. So I asked to have my pledge downgraded to cover the cost. NO way in hell am I giving more money to these guys, especially via their own site.

[@werdna9006]

Thank you for this very good and informative video. I too am undecided about paying. My price they want is $18 per expansion not $13 - why the diference? This has made me decide to never back Kickstarter projects again. They take years to come to completion/delivery and I am not getting any younger (just retired). It is such a bad taste in the mouth because the expansions looked really great (at least on paper) and looking at the payment page I would be very wary about putting my credit card info into that.

[@TheKingofAverage]

The difference is because I paid in the first contribution round as well which was supposed to pay for this as well, but instead I only get a "discount"

[@brycejarrett9211]

I was dumb enough to pre order Solomon Kane, and I tried to get my money back. A game they already sold to Monolith and have no plans on making. To me they should give the money back to pre-orders before KS games.

[@EvoPapaLazarou]

Me too, this is surely illegal?

[@Ironhawx]

Pay the money. We need to get those games delivered, the end game I see here is if they can survive until summer 2024, the 6Siege retail copies should keep them afloat for DD2 wave 2. Oh yes I gaurandamntee there are 6Siege retail copies coming.

[@voldosmith]

I don’t understand this community/industry, I’m on all the major social platforms groups, and there’s a LOT of censorship and “cancel culture” around topics as representation, sexual identity, and all the standard woke bs, and I’ve seen people get cancelled for comments… but, here’s a real bully, a real problem, and no one gives a F, seriously wtf?, personally I have 0 cents on that project, but it baffles me seeing so many proud people trying to cancel anyone for comments or opinions, but no one doing something where it counts… Funny thinking that a lot more heat would come to this company for not celebrating pride month or some stupid thing like that…

[@justinjosephg6303]

Requested a refund on Monsterpocalypse last year. Never got it. I am all in on HEL, Monsterpocalypse and Rise of the Necromancers. They have about 1K of my money unfortunately.

[@baxxic91]

Thank you for letting us know !

[@Scarhandpainting]

You didn't help me at all. You were supposed to tell me to pay the contribution and that everything will be fine! :P I am out of kickstarter because of how this campaign is being handled. Pandemic, new Chinese year, inflation - whatever - does not excuse how things are being done at Mythic Games. sad story, I was super hyped for DD, really wanted to have the entire collection. My favorite PC game ever, awesome miniatures - something to pass down to my kids one day as the ultimate toy.

[@roberthermosillo5727]

Oh my. I was tantalized by the miniatures from darkest dungeons, but I did not end up backing this one. Sorry to hear about all the problems.

[@herr_der_spiele]

They also store a lot of money from me. It would be interesting to know what the interest yield would have been with a more conservative investment.

[@kabelstekker]

I'm still waiting to hear about a second payment on Six Siege the Board Game

[@seppok8326]

I skipped DD, barely, and now I am glad I did. I went all in with Hel, but st least that’s just 1 game they owe me.

[@ThePaelan]

I asked for a refund from these clowns on 16th August 2022 and still no sign of it. I've asked for an update quite a few times and now they've just stopped responding (the last email I sent was 27th July 2023).

[@itsallfunandgames723]

It's astounding how little work they actually did on their games.

[@01hornsfan]

I'm paying for my Darkest Dungeon since I'm already invested. But I'm not paying any more for HEL (goodbye, HEL pledge) and thankfully I don't have to do business with them again after this. No bitterness here, just a life lesson.

[@1AngelAlita]

Same, except I haven't decided what to do about Hel. To be fair, the original pledge was really cheap considering how big the game became and the amount of content. So I guess I'd be willing to pay some kind of ransom. Depends how much.

[@01hornsfan]

You know, that's a great way to look at all of this. @@1AngelAlita

[@gameyflash]

This failing business keeps exploiting the loyalty and the guilt of sunk cost of its customers. Mythic seems to refuse to acknowledge the reality that the pandemic and the war have impacted the backers no less harder than this company. Worse still, what the company is doing is simply salting their wounds. Each time mythic calls for a new round of "contribution" it simply breaks the promise made last time and the whole cash flow situation is becoming even more dubious than ever. I'm afraid a huge portion of the initial pledge money and previous "contribution" got sucked into oblivion. Using the money for Darkest Dungeons to fund the company's earlier unfinished projects is ponzi. Telling backers that the company lacks funds to produce and ship the game while passionately running sales of existing stock outside the crowdfunding campaign is an antithesis of what common sense refers to as honesty. Those with enough good will to get tricked into the everlasting refund trap lost everything: their money, their games, their passion, and their faith in crowdfunding for games. To Mythic: Just stop producing the games you cannot afford to do so, and return to all the backers their hard earned money. Now.

[@slomo9831]

Klarna is used in many nordic transactions not sure how widely it's used in rest of europe. As you're from the US of A I can see you're not familiar with it.

[@cotygiannelli9193]

I’m gonna need you to pay that so I at least have a chance to pay more money for Monsterpocalypse. 😂

[@wyred]

It really sucks but if I where you I would pay it if you believe that they will ship it for that amount because that's still better than heaving nothing. If it where an amount closer to what you have already paid I wouldn't but that ship has already sailed I guess.

[@dankone1289]

New business confirmed! Leo's Tampons R Us!

[@PsychicLord]

One would imagine that the ladies using the product would be left somewhat dripping with anger.

[@Gameturners2016]

They will not get any more money from me and that means I’ll lose $300+ on Hel. I’d rather that than enable them to keep screwing over their backers.

[@ellindar1]

Finally THIS is what needs said.

[@ew1258]

As to your minis/standees question. Sine I am a minis first person I wouldn’t want the game without them. I would rather have the minis and no game. Especially for Hell. I’d be fine with just getting those minis at this point. Don’t even need a fancy box.

[@williamskogen9895]

SO glad I didn't back this game. I love the video game and the minis look awesome, almost backed for them alone just to paint them. Sympathies to those of you who are caught up in this.

[@haxan6663]

All you need to know about Mythic Games: we are a scam company who used to sell boardgames. Now we will just tell you lies and request more money for the things that you have already paid for, at least once. We have no intention of going out of business while we can keep fleecing our customers. And we probably won't ever send you your games. Trust us.

[@floflo8832]

I'm very frustrated right now... MG wants more money for their costs and i get spammed by MG Mails, that DD is now available and that their other products are so awesome... and then i even get a advert on YT where Leo talks to me, how awesome MG is... so they have money for such things and we must pay more for our game? Wow...

[@koklead7904]

Tampons are a big business and I think Lea will do well there

[@thelog7161]

Bro don't give em another dime this is absolutely ridiculous and they don't deserve to be in business anymore

[@ScytheNoire]

Soooo... I'm probably not getting that Myhthic game I won in a BGG contest? 😂

[@foyzo3673]

Thanks for a great video. I would encourage you to look at Elf Creek Games 3 current KS that have not fulfilled and company is ghosting its backers

[@Kolbjorn24]

I hate this so much, I also backed monsterpocalypse and anastyr. Partially of trying to get a refund for all of this…. Don’t care how long it takes. Feels like it’ll be waiting forever to get the games I bought anyway…

[@Burthark]

I wasn't part of wave 1 as i paid for the spanish version. This means i don't have anything at the moment. And now i know i won't even see a localized version of the game in the future. What's even worse, i ended up buying the crimson court from their website on a sale and i have the box sitting there, waiting for a core game that probably will never came. I haven't paid the ransom yet. And i too, don't really know what to do about it. Such a shitty company.

[@assinus]

Mythic Games is following the elephants path of petersen games, to the cemetery. The only question is WHEN they will go out of business. With the issues with dd wave2, just imagine the following project's ransom

[@alexaparicio12]

I am about to request the Refund. I have the ancestral pledge and in Spanish. They ask me for $177 more..... and I think I'm not going to pay it, I don't know if by asking for the Refund they will give it to me.... it's a complicated decision.... losing $330 plus $60 shipping. pay on the day or pay $177 that they ask me now.... 😓😓😭😭😤😤😡😡😡😡

[@thepissoff10]

Good thing I already wrote off HEL as my 1st failed Kikcstarter. Zero expectations from Mythic Games now. Maybe Monolyth will come in and rescue HEL like they did OrcQuest. Doubt it though.

[@mattisbohnet6797]

I paid the contributen for six siege and never got a notification or anything for it... still hope I get it. I might Not be willing to pay for hel or monpoc because the ship is sinking to fast...

[@dggseeler7690]

As one who payed for the German version, I will never get what I payed for, so another 200€ for the English and maybe I will get it, or the money I spent is gone.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Sorry man :(

[@zerosum789]

Honestly the companies behavior is a bit gross. However I paid the additional $23 just to get my final color of madness expansion. I've received everything else I paid for to date and just want to be done with this. Frankly the game is good and they delivered on the wave 1 stuff. If I don't see this in 6mo I'll refund through paypal.

[@thepissoff10]

"We don't plan on going out of business." Yeah, well, criminals don't plan on going to prison but shit happens. They will go under, just a matter of time. They can't even sell this dumpster fire of a company now.

[@radip]

Lazy Squire Games is next

[@nipzie]

@@radip no...they're super easy to contact. I got a refund and it was no problem. They deserve a bit of a leash

[@pixelninja5845]

"Going out of business" is an easy way to completely shut down and simply take whatever money is left and run. Then you "start" a new company with a new name, new phone number. You cleanse your books of all debts and customer obligations. Your old customers get to call the old number and hear, "this number has been disconnected or is no longer in service; if you believe this message is an error, please hang up and dial the number again...". So this is Mythic saying they realize that option is a viable path to escape for them, and probably would be the best move they could make for themselves business-wise, but they are instead committed to making good even though that will be a worse financial move for them. Now, maybe they are sincere, or maybe they aren't sincere and are actually planning on going out of business and they want to entice another round of money before they move on so they have a nice war chest to start their next company with. Seeing as how they have my money already, I can only hope their promise is sincere, and this isn't Mark Cuban's Maverick's suggesting they are going to do everything they can to compete despite being out of the playoffs, and then immediately benching all starters. lol

[@mattisbohnet6797]

I paid the contributen for six siege and never got a notification or anything for it... still hope I get it. I might Not be willing to pay for hel or monpoc because the ship is sinking to fast...

[@raphaelperry8159]

The best joke is that they claim they're going to still be able to deliver Anastyr after everything else.

[@nobbynobbs8182]

I went all in on that but I don't have much hope at this point :/

[@stuartwalker9597]

There is more chance of me walking into a spider infested cave and I have arachnophobia

[@irAbyssion]

Just finished watching the entire clip and the last few minutes are just gut wrenching. The entire thing comes across like some one who is stuck in an abusive relationship where you get struck but, still see some value in the relationship because you shared some special moments together. You list all the bad things that have happened and still not sure what to do or willing to let go and accept that this just is not going to work, you have my deepest sympathies. There is one major upside from this whole thing is that because of this, it has effected the entire hobby and we now all know the to spot the dangers of backing games from companies who just do too much or go too big too fast.

[@AlwayzFresh]

Yeah, I am on the fence unsubbing for this. Not sure I want to hear/see more from this creator.

[@timraley8299]

YES this is the King I followed! Accountability is critical and I appreciate you're not still blindly defending Leo...!

[@Zarfin]

he´s back 👍

[@utahman06]

*extreme Rafiki voice* The king……has returned

[@Sgrand80]

He was not blindly defending Leo. He did his research and believed in the project. But you can only handle so many fuck ups.

[@Zarfin]

@@Sgrand80 Leo & MG got their 2nd chance with the Joan of arc 1.5 upgrade pack several years ago. This is actually the 374th time they are messing up. We are long passed the point, where anybody could defend this company in a reasonable manner...

[@vonwoolf9963]

@@Sgrand80 KoA was most probably paid by Leo and MG to not tear them a new one. That's the only rational explanation about KoA not going to town against MG for all this time, compared to other KS scam publishers.

[@handelsimperium3506]

Don't throw good money after bad - it's over.

[@3Xero3]

They almost got me with a late pledge offer. They had it offered for 50% off, which sounded like a good deal, but it also sounded like a red flag. The desperation was a little too thick and tipped me off. Sadly, they DID get me all-in on the Monsterpocalypse reprint. I figured that would be a slam dunk since it was a reprint of an existing game, just in more affordable plastic instead of expensive resin.

[@Skullyweb]

I'm right there with you on monsterpocalypse. I too thought it was a reprint with different components.

[@SeanUCF]

Yeah I pledged for monster apocalypse too. After seeing things like this, I highly doubt I'll ever see that game. So glad I never completed the pledge manager. I had like $300-400 worth of add ons that would have been flushed down the toilet

[@chrispratt41]

Yep, me too on an all-in MonPoc. Crying so bad right now.

[@diecycling]

Yep, I'm embarassed to admit how much I dropped on everything Monster Apocalypse. On the bright side, it's cured me of going all-in on Kickstarters. :)

[@indie_kev]

My god I'm happy I got out of HEL a year into the KS and got a refund. I had a bad feeling about Mythic for a while on HEL. And that made me also wary of everything else they were doing. Happy to see I got to dodge this dumpster fire of a situation. It sucks for everyone that just tried trusting them. You're doing important work covering all these issues so great job!

[@wyred]

I didn't and I'm just happy that at least it wasn't that expensive. Just thinking about if that would have been one of this 500$+ games, shiver.

[@joshmcclure2124]

I’m still in on Hel and just wondering what the random is going to be

[@nonamenoname1133]

I was very lucky to have decided to get out of Hel after the first DD ransom event. I'm still a captive KDM whale (feels better now that finished projects are coming out), but honestly, the dark days of KDM in 2020-2021 and the DD troubles changed my trajectory in the hobby massively and for the better.

[@spike2439]

When I saw that their campaigns and ideas turned from a very fleshed-out game in Reichbusters to more hypothetical and ideas in Hel and other projects, I stopped backing them.

[@Heidelmann]

Probably should have listened to my suspicions when they brought Sam Healey on to sell Hel. Sucks to lose out on Hel it looked thematically fun.

[@StruC]

I requested a refund like 6 months ago and they asked me again for $210(!), so I clicked the "Cancel" button. I don't want to help them hit the MOQ - keeping them afloat will only hurt more people. This has to end.

[@Oaklestat]

You are right. We are all being completely disrespected by Leo and Mythic Games.

[@siturl5834]

KOA - think you have been pretty objective and reasonable throughout. I wouldn't give them another penny personally, but its a hard decision when you're already invested.

[@wewantthefunk73]

That is called the Fallacy of Sunk Cost. It should be an easy decision.

[@jawsvvvvv]

Monsterpocalypse is my biggest Kickstarter disaster!!! Petersen games are going to deliver its products so can't be mad about them anymore. They did the right thing.

[@jhash2625]

True, but to be fair they did get bailed out big time. Petersen games' problem has always been that they dreamed too big and didn't have the experience to know what was financially possible (or responsible).

[@toddferrullo1871]

Same here in that MonPoc is the biggest failure that I will have on Kickstarter having gone all in and then some.

[@obsidiansiriusblackheart]

​@@toddferrullo1871I'm in the exact position as you, went all in on MonPoc then bought all the extras in pm. We're not getting this game. I HOPE Privateer Press sues the hell out of MG and somehow recreates the game through another company that we can buy later...

[@krs4395]

I know what's happening, Darkest Dungeon has the most backers from all of their unreleased projects so they're using us as a piggy bank to fund the other games. This project is their best opportunity and so they're milking it for all it's worth. I'll pay this ransom as I did the last, my only contention is that they might lean on the sunk cost to make me pay again in a few months when they're ready to ship. I really just want this over with so I can move on, this was my first campaign and I backed it after sinking thousands of hours into the video game, I won't back another game after this.

[@malcolmdouglasmichaluk8263]

its only fair after they used the other games funds for delivering wave one

[@krs4395]

@@malcolmdouglasmichaluk8263 nothing is fair about this...

[@thestranger3434]

I wouldn't. They got me for Wave 1. Then I had to send a ticket complaint 4months later before they finally shipped my game. I've got the extra characters from wave 2, but I'm considering it a loss at this point

[@utahman06]

Dang I just had a thought: 6 Siege is apparently in paper production but we haven’t had proof of that. What if this extra DD contribution is in part to patch a shortfall in paying for 6S? We know that’s how they ran their KS campaigns - the next campaign pays for the last one. Why should we believe they’ve changed their stripes at all? 😬

[@danielsolorzano8623]

This is why I rarely crowdfund games and when I do I do research. This was the first game I backed and I feel real dumb for doing so. Huge loss of money. Another thing I find myself doing as well is just buying second hand. Then I know a game actually came

[@1AngelAlita]

Why was it huge loss of money? The game's great and I think it's worth it even for increased price.

[@Subcomandante73]

Wait for retail unless it is a company with a proven track record on KS. Good games will get to retail. Most KS games are 'one and done' average/bad games with lots of bling. You never see people play them a year down the line.

[@nipzie]

What mode research can you do for this? I backed Hel and then not a single one after because they hadn't delivered Hel from 2020 yet. They were reputable then. At what point do you think they're showing red flags?

[@Legaleagle0200]

@@nipziehow are they “reputable”? I’ve backed a hundred+ kickstarters and never had an issue. I can’t believe people fall for these things

[@xenondoro8573]

​@@Legaleagle0200 Once these kickstarters start to gain millions of $'s people begin to see them as too big to fail. I backed Joan or Arc, had my issues with the undercooked gameplay so never backed any of their other games but I can see why people looked at them as reputable. Mind you, for the same reason I don't back Awaken Realms games either since they broke their promise on The Edge Dawnfall backers but the company's still beloved by others judging by how succesful their crowdfunding is.

[@BenBoersma]

Monsterpocalypse is really not going to happen is it? 😢

[@erics745]

And rise of the necros ?

[@cyriltournier]

That has been clear for a long time now. But there are already 2 different versions of Monpoc out here if that's what you want to play.

[@marcolai9735]

I would stop throwing 💰 at them… you’re lucky enough to have content from Wave 1 which you enjoyed and you can replay at your heart content. I’m sorry but this is the end of the road for them and they just need to stop squeezing their hostages (I mean customers) further and further

[@sidneyleejohnson]

Well frankly backers of Madeira Collector's edition from What's Your Game? sure would have liked the choice of helping bail out the campaign instead of zero attempts at such and being left empty handed. by the way, we have had zero communication on KS regarding the status of the Madeira, whether its been produced and sitting in storage, or whatever state its in. We just have some BGG forum posts insight into some of their former employees (designers) in court trying to get back pay etc. We can hold out hope after seeing a single box demonstrated but there really isn't a clear OOPS we failed message yet on the actual campaign.

[@Aodyri]

Hell no to standees. Id rather get a box of just the promised minis with no broken, untested, janky game than get an OBSCENELY overpriced cardboard and paper game. $200ish in on Hel, $440 on Anastyr. I did not pay $440 for standees. At least the minis are minis.

[@wtfserpico]

I'm still in on Hel for a few reasons. A: It's only $129 that I pledged years ago, so I'm not feeling the loss of that money either way at this point. 2: I considered store credit to pick up Darkest Dungeon but I simply don't want it, and I'm not paying that much shipping for a game I don't want just to have "something". D: If it ever delivers (it wont) it's going to be a hell of a curiosity with quite the backstory. Mythic's behavior and subsequent failure is why I've stopped crowdfunding. Succubus Publishing's shenanigans around the new box for Middara Act 1 has put the final nail in that coffin.

[@curlyfrey91]

So when they approach later and ask for additional contributions for HEL to deliver, are you going to pay? Becuase it will end up being a heck of a lot more than 129 if these projects are anything to go by. Not to mention, they still haven't resolved the size/weight of the books issue as far as I'm aware, which is kind of a big deal considering its a narrative game. That's where I started to really see what they were doing and noped out. Not that I'm getting a refund anytime soon, but at least its in the queue.

[@wtfserpico]

@@curlyfrey91 At this point I'm not really sure what I'll do if they ask for more money. I'm expecting to be charged for shipping, but if they ask for more just to maybe possibly get to where I can then pay more for shipping I'll probably just write it off and forget about it.

[@aeryellae5837]

@@wtfserpico I mean they're going to ask for more than shipping. They ran out of money and, assuming they deliver 6 Siege and DD Wave II, they would need more money to produce the game. They have no real source of income other than contributions.

[@1AngelAlita]

@@wtfserpicoI'm also not sure what I'm going to do about Hel. But the original pledge was just really cheap, considering the insane amount of content. We are talking about KDM kind of content here, I think. So we will see how much more they will want us to pay...

[@stuartwalker9597]

I backed 6: siege for $69 + $30 shipping (basic pledge) and they wanted more than my pledge and more for shipping afterwards again

[@vajnarrichard]

At this point I just consider Mythic one of the many soulless money-grubbing companies that just lies and doesn't care. I didn't support DD (thank god) but I do have an all in for Hel and RoT, if and when I will be asked to pay my share of ransom money I will probably do it, get my games and get out never touching their stuff again, lesson learned. Just hope that Mythic won't sink until everyone gets their games...

[@lroman456]

same here with Hel...

[@elimcjones7722]

I've never backed a Mythic game and I didn't think I was affected by this, but now I realize this type of thing has a ripple effect through the community. Truth be told I will think about this type of thing before pledging in the future and will probably back less

[@darthrooster1]

This is the actual Kickstarter that took me off the platform completely. In the long term it’ll probably save me money on future disasters, but I’m going to take a huge bath on Monster Apocalypse.

[@xenondoro8573]

I once got burned by another company and became very wary afterwards. The most disheartening thing is to see that Kickstarter doesn't give a damn if people lose their money. As long as they get their cut. I've only dared to back Dice Throne and Zombicide ever since.

[@timf7354]

I plan on paying it because the quality of wave 1 was so good. If they said theyd send standees or lower quality of components, i wouldnt pay. Maybe yhats what you meant by lower the quality so no contributions are needed. But i think they need an influx of money no matter what. So paying $13 per sucks, but at least i have the physical game and can decide to keep, sell, trade, etc. The alternative is no game and no options to keep, sell, or trade. I do believe we will get DD Wave 2. I dont have confidence we will get the later games like Hel, Anastyr, and RotN.

[@romanismailov4857]

I unsubscribed from this channel because you constantly defended Mythic Games. It has been clear for more than a year that they are scammers. Because of your videos, many people continued to give Mythic their money. and now you've finally seen the truth. Better late than never...

[@tomambrosio5527]

Yes. He deserves some blame. No one in their right mind can defend MG, but somehow he did.

[@handelsimperium3506]

Let's just face it, they are milking desperate backers for as much as possible before they initiate chapter 11. Wake up, guys!

[@MrZwergamwerk]

So mythic Games is an EU company so us law does not apply here. But I am confused that they are still allowed to Run this company. After my 5min Google search I found Out, that the managing director has 45days to declare insolvency after the inabilty to pay has occured. After that he ist likely to loose the right to manage the company and will be personally responsible If his actions made the situation worse. But a short conversation with my wife who is a solicitor let me think that a Kickstarter company has probably no outstanding payments If they got rid of all employees, storage and facilities. So the only legal consequence they have to fear is probably a fraud Report If they do another ks campagne with the knowledge that they will not be able to deliver. Excuse my bad english

[@bledsoebaneminis2487]

I'm about $1,000 in on Monsterpocalypse. I don't know what to do. I don't think ill get a refund, so I keep holding on to hope.

[@Aztek536]

i'm 862 $ with delivery on Anastyr. Asked for a refund but you know...

[@jamesmurray2690]

Personally, I would cut my loses and walk. As you yourself said to those thinking of requesting a refund, write the money off. I have written off ever seeing Dinosaur 1944, despite Petersen Games insisting it, will be n the pipeline. If it ever turns up great, but I won’t be surprised if I never see it. Cut your loses, and walk!

[@sablestar1956]

This feels like extortion or a ransom. Mythic has imprisoned your baby but their asking you for money in order to get it home safe to you. I’m certain that was not the original intention of kickstarters.

[@chpunisher2005]

It absolutely is, but for the most part, there isn't much we can do about it. 1. Cut losses and request a refund which according to their schedule could take years IF they don't shut down before they get to you. 2. Pay the ransom, multiple times, and hope that eventually you get something.

[@sablestar1956]

@@chpunisher2005 That’s awful!! I almost contributed to their kickstarter, the only reason I didn’t was because I already got to the highest levels of Darkest Dungeon video game-and its one of my favorite video games-but I had no interest in repeating the experience.

[@chpunisher2005]

@sablestar1956 to be clear, I didn't back Darkest Dungeon but I did back their Rainbow 6 game and we recently went through the same thing. We were also promised delivery in October 2023 but they waited until the last minute to say...opps.. now its delayed until April 2024. I honestly doubt it's honba make thst deadline too

[@TheFleahost]

I kickstarted a wooden dice tower from these fantastic guys in Ukraine. Despite their workspace being in an actual war zone they are better are communicating. As of now they are all ‘safe.’ I don’t know spect anything from them but they are still determined to try to fulfill pledges. I have more confidence in them than ever getting my RotN pledge from Mythic.

[@TheRedBard]

I got this EXACT same product and had the same experience. Mid pandemic/war they still promised to deliver. Mythic made 15 mil across 6 unfulfilled projects.

[@ewenneiertz8362]

Thank you Michael for the video. I request my refund for Anastyr in october 2022. Nothing so far... And from what i'have heared the only one guy got a refund since (he threaten to sue Amanda (the Ks community manager) which is in the US, because in some US law, working for a foreign compagny makes you responsable of it in the country (not sure to understood the thing right). But they're on the july 22 since when I asked for my refund.

[@baxxic91]

Thank you for letting everyone know!

[@crimsonsun2000]

I'm paying.. but and its a big but this is the only game I'm in for, so its $98 then I can ignore mythic forever, just keep an eye out for their names in future companies cause they have proven they cannot run a business... Might be worth just paying for core games, much like crowdfunding its likely your best return for your investment. Does it stop me backing, nah, but I've been far more reserved for the last few years anyway, this year is pretty high on backing and I think I'll end up with 6 or 7 projects backed this year, last year it was just 3 or 4.

[@Big_Dai]

Don't preorder, do not back products that don't yet exist! You can live without these.. and if they are really driven to put their creation out there (and it is deserved and wanted) it will come out by THEIR efforts. This pledge system is dumb, and people are certainly dumber.

[@emilianoprandelli4591]

That's gross. I refused to pay the ransom and asked for a refound. I'm fully aware there's basically no chance I'll ever see a penny. This company is totally scum. The worst thing of all is that while telling me candidly that they won't send me the stuff I payed for years ago, they flood me with advertising mail from the f....k e-shop where they sell the game with discount!!!! Ridiculous. I will go through EU small claims procedure, just for the sake of curiosity

[@didierc2495]

Hi there, When you think about it, doesn't Leo look like the Joker? Strange haircut, big smile on his face and laughing unnaturally at everything he's told, he keeps games hostage and demands ransoms.... 🤔🤔🤔 Does anyone got the phone of Batman or the Batsignal ? Just asking in case....😅

[@mikenadeau8704]

Right there with you on the $78. Really on the fence at about 80/20 for not paying. The part about shipping has been bugging me since the update. I'm seriously considering cutting my losses at this point as there is absolutely no guarantee that Mythic will deliver. In fact, they've demonstrated the exact opposite. How do I know they won't ask for additional contributions ( yes that's plural contributions)? They're at 2 contributions and very likely 3. I have the base game and the Crimson Court. I'll take my $78 and back the League of Dungeoneers expansion while I decide how to deal with Mythic. Anyways, I would like to know if and when you decide and the reasons behind your decision. Great video. Thanks!

[@bassmeo3937]

They will probably deliver, the real question is how much money are they going to keep asking before they actually deliver.

[@CheddahSlammer]

They delivered wave 1 of DD. The thing is if they wanted to screw us they could have went bankrupt before DD Wave 1. No one would have gotten their games, and their would be no problems for them.

[@Br1cht]

Are you incapable of rational thought and pattern recognition? How can you still be so eager to let others do your thinking for you after this saga?

[@Tharukan]

Paying Mythic is a form of gambler's fallacy. The ship is sinking. Stop loading it with more gold already!

[@StorminWolf]

After the disaster that was Joan of Arc for a Friend and Reichbusters for myself I warned people of the SnowBall Scheme and this company, no one wanted to believe me, but Im so glad I steered clear of this company. The Minix are gorgeous from Reichbusters, but their communication and Delivery was the worst.

[@asrafel13]

I paid the ransom for my Wave 2 stuff, but I'm never backing Mythic again.

[@iansharp1543]

I'm done with Kickstarter for anything big like this. I'll still back STL projects for 3D printer files because those never fail to deliver lol. But aside from this, I also backed both Blacklist Games Fantasy Series projects, and suffice to say, I'm pretty soured by the entire process. To be fair, I backed CMON's MOTU board game, and it came without any issues. I've also backed some smaller indie RPG projects and everything seems to be in order with those. But honestly, I have too many games in my backlog to play and too many minis in my backlog to paint, and all things considered it's probably healthiest for me to back out now. As far as this last "contribution", I guess I'll pay it. I guess... I just want my stuff and it seems like this is the final hurdle. But Mythic Games for sure will never get another dollar from me after that.

[@AlwayzFresh]

100% same here. One of the reasons(Other than hating Mythic) I am not paying for the additional content to be shipped is because I have too many mini's to paint in my backlog. Mythic can keep their shitty plastic miniatures.

[@Cenobites4213]

I ended up paying the second wave, and this will be my last game from mythic I ever back..

[@corvus5]

I'll probably pay the ransom, I figure I can sell it and get at least some of my money back quicker than if I requested a refund. Not looking forward to going through the exact same situation with Hel...

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

I’ve got way too much money invested in Hel and Anastyr, and I’m not sure what I’m gonna decide when that hostage moment comes. Would be great if Mythic just sold everything off to different developers/publishers and admitted defeat.

[@rhystanafon4544]

When I saw the sale 2years ago on the core and expansion (about 50%) I almost felt like I was tossing money down a well...but I got only the expansion almost a year after wards I had just about given up... Now I'm just interested in the figures. I use them in ttrpg...so I have the heroes covered....I just need the mobs and bosses that come with the core set.... Anyone will to part with some let me know... I've given up on the board game... but the RPG lives on

[@radelc]

*Reaching out for Anastyr in desperation* "Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!" Damnit. I hope they can at least send us STLs. Feeling burned hard right now. Definitely learned my lesson on Kickstarter from these guys.

[@creamysmooth79]

I didn't do my research, and went all in on Anastyr. I really regret that now and know that there is very little chance of it coming out. It breaks my heart as they had a working prototype that looked amazing, and I would still love to play it. Like you, if it goes under, I hope the backers are given access to the STL files and art and game files to at least print the game ourselves.

[@dschimp]

Same boat here… bummer because it looked like such a fun and unique game. Whatever happens I’m sure it’ll be years before we find out.

[@franciscoguerra5439]

Not a penny more. As long as Mythic keeps making bank from these "contributions", they will keep asking for them, leapfrogging them across all their campaigns. I want my expansions as much as anyone else, but I cannot justify either the added expense (which is enormous with shipping to NZ) or the moral bankruptcy of giving in to this extortion over and over again. Enough is enough.

[@Gauweezy]

They need to sell Hel and sell Anastyr. They need to check reality and get out this industry.

[@tkzubaran]

Don't even have a kickstarter account, feels good. I want to see the product ready and reviewed by trusted sources before I consider giving my money.

[@JasonBrown-st5if]

I fully agree with you but it's better to get the option than for them to just close shop which I experienced. Some companies give you something for the 'inconvenience' While i resisted all their ks I worry that they won't be able to make everything.

[@jaysonolson516]

A few updates back I was ready to throw in the towel on them, but being an optimist to a fault, I STILL wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. And yes, the mini's are really cool. But after watching this video in addition to reading their latest update, I have resided that I will lose money on this, I will not get a refund, and I only have the wave one delivery. Yeah, it sucks...but I/we've waited for this much longer than originally anticipated...so much so, my interest is knida waining anyway. I realize everyone needs to make their own decsion, but personally I'm done. They broke their original promise, then broke their update promise. I am not being setup for promise #3 (or is it #4 now? I am not sure, nor do I care). I'm done with Mythic, they won't get another dollar out of me and I just have to come to terms that part of my investment is now lost forever. Better for me to rip the band-aid off now on my expectations, than to continually set myself up for more frustrations yet to come. I have so many other unplayed games I need to play, that if I miss out on this one...well...in the big scheme of things...this is the 3rd KS failure I've been a part of compared to the 90+ that have been successful. So I am subject to maybe less than a 5% failure over the life of my hobby addiction. I'll live. I think about people in parts if the world who don't even know if they'll see tomorrow...let alone worry about a handful of plastic miniatures and cardboard.