Epic Scrabble endgame between decades-long friends and rivals

[@5cr4bb13]

The real question is who played JERRY? :P

[@mackmeller]

Was waiting for this comment -- trust me, that was one of the first things I asked Joe too. Jerry opened with JERRY!

[@craiglarimer1173]

Fabulous video. When I first saw the video start, I figured Jerry had no chance to win in an optimal end game. The Q really destroyed his chances. Credit to Joe for the fix set up.

[@mackmeller]

Thanks Craig! Yeah I was surprised and impressed that Jerry was able to make it as competitive as he was with both the Q and Z on his rack!

[@vendredi5]

Many thanks for your thorough and brilliant rundown of this ending position, Mack! I hope others learn much from it; I certainly did.

[@humbertocruz6214]

as usual, fascinating and highly instructive analysis

[@mackmeller]

Thanks!

[@project_account6248]

S(EL) + (AE)S* not being valid is a lifesaver

[@redreoicy6698]

Why would Jerry play the a instead of passing here? 14:51. Since he is stuck, shouldn't it be better to pass and maintain flexibility?

[@mackmeller]

If Jerry passes then Joe can go out immediately with FIE under the ILT of OUTBUILT and win since Jerry won’t have scored the points from his A play. Good question though, probably should’ve been more explicit about that

[@redreoicy6698]

@mackmeller thanks, I guess I didn't check to see if there were any outplays 😅

[@LeviATallaksen]

Also, by dropping the I first, Joe can go out with F(EM)E in one move. It's obviously worse, as it gives Jerry another chance to take the draw, but it still shows that keeping the A doesn't help. I missed FIE myself, so that's how I read it.

[@pialba]

Also, what happens in the IS/CEL mainline at 14:06, instead of starting with EX and MIGG, Joe starts with MIGG and LI ? With the idea of keeping both the F and the X so that Jerry can't play KA/AGIN (due to KAF) and can't play TA/ANEW either (due to opening TAX). But I guess then Jerry can just pass as Joe can't go out with FEX.

[@mackmeller]

Yep, your analysis looks 100% spot on -- it does appear Jerry has to pass in that situation but then Joe eventually has to play either his F or X and we transpose back into the main line. It's definitely better for Joe to play this way though since it's more likely to induce a mistake, as many players wouldn't think of passing. Thanks for sharing! Yet another line I probably should've covered in the video, but it's so easy to miss things with positions this complicated

[@LeviATallaksen]

14:18 Also useful to note that the I-stick doesn't work in this case, as every attempt at it gives back (A)I. Seems like AS on the previous move would in fact be a stick, but it sacrifices way too many points and ends up 7 points worse I think.

[@pialba]

The thing is, the fact both players have an S makes the point sacrifice from IS effectively double, as not only you don't get the big S play but your opponent gets it instead. Suddenly with this is mind, the point loss from the S is on par with the gain from blocking ZA ! Which was why my first instinct after you outlined what happened in the game was for Joe to go OUPHES+SAW instead of IS. If I'm not mistaken, sadly it actually loses but could have won if not for APORIAS being available Jerry TIZ : +31 = 365 Joe OUPHES+SAW : +17 = 349 Jerry CEL : +5 = 370 (Any other line allows Joe EH winning). Joe EX : +9 = 358 Jerry ZA : +33 = 403 Joe FEM : +8 = 366 Jerry : pass (: (see later) Joe FEME : +13 = 379 Jerry : pass (: Joe LI : +4 = 383 Jerry APORIAS : +10 = 413 Joe MIGG : +8 = 391 goes out. (Has to be outplay, otherwise Jerry plays MIGGS and gets one more from the S) Joe +Q : +20 = 411 Loses by 2. (Delta compared to IS mainline : +15 (for Joe's S) +7 (for Jerry's S) -24 (for Jerry's A) = -2, indeed.) Edit : Actually, in this case, blocking the GEY setup with AG is much more costly because that means you can't cash in with ZA ! Jerry TIZ : +31 = 365 Joe OUPHES+SAW : +17 = 349 Jerry CEL : +5 = 370 Joe GEY : +7 = 356 Jerry AG : +5 = 375 Joe EX : +18 = 374 Jerry APORIAS : +10 = 385 Joe FEM : +8 = 382 Six pass. Jerry -Q : -10 = 375 Joe -I : -1 = 381 Wins by 6. But there's another way to block the GEY setup that seems more interesting in this situation, namely ES for 4 from the E of GEY. This is not explored in the video so I'm probably missing moves left and right but I'm gonna try anyway :) Jerry TIZ : +31 = 365 Joe OUPHES+SAW : +17 = 349 Jerry CEL : +5 = 370 Joe GEY : +7 = 356 Jerry ES : +4 = 374 Joe XIS : +13 = 369 (Slowplaying IS and then XIS isn't allowed as IS allows QIS). Jerry ZA : +33 = 407 Joe GIF : +14 = 383 Joe +Q : +20 = 403. Loses by 4. Alright, I tried.

[@mackmeller]

Love seeing all the attempts here! Looks like this video could've been over an hour along if I truly went through everything, haha... goes to show how powerful a tool Macondo is that it can exhaustively know for sure the best Joe can do is tie there

[@FUZxxl]

In the line around 15:44, couldn't you pass to keep the A on the rack? If the opponent passes back, it ends in a six pass, which is not enough points. If the opponent continues, you keep the A to break his strategy.

[@axcertypo]

The issue with this is that the person that plays last is the person with the F, since the person with the A is stuck with the Q. If they leave the f on their rack until the end, playing off the other tiles first, then either the A must be played in a suboptimal spot, or in the ka spot, or else they lose the points they would get for the A and give an additional 2 points up by not playing.

[@nautilus269]

@Mack Meller Did you get to read what I mentioned several weeks ago about a player across the pond?

[@mackmeller]

Hmm it doesn't ring a bell, mind reposting here?

[@nautilus269]

@@mackmeller I sent you an email in early September. Unfortunately, there was anothar (look for this sequence of letters) mispelling in the title. I need lurn to cpell

[@mackmeller]

@@nautilus269 Ah, gotcha -- I found it, looks like I did respond briefly back then. I'm generally sticking to North Ameircan play for now and I don't know where I'd find this player's games, but if you have any specific games or plays you think are worthy of being included then feel free to send those along!

[@cornhub2445]

Where does everyone play scrabble online? The official online scrabble site (thats where i play) or ??

[@evankramer8475]

Woogles

[@mackmeller]

woogles.io!

[@stop_drop]

a q stick guitar