Ergonomic Keyboards Compared | What To Buy?

Ergonomic keyboards are everywhere... and it's difficult to know what to buy.
Here, I'll compare straight vs curved keyboards, compact vs standard keyboards, and what impact they have on mouse placement.
Let's have a look at the
Logitech MX Keys Mini
Logitech Wave
Logitech K780
Logitech K860
We'll see the impact that they have on the risk of wrist pain, neck pain and shoulder pain... and you'll see why I love the new Logitech Wave!
#keyboard #logitech
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Pain in the back, shoulder, arms or any other musculoskeletal pain should not govern your life.
A lot of the pain you feel is caused or aggravated by wrong posture, poor ergonomics and a lack of specific exercises for your muscles and joints. Giving you the tools to resolve these issues is the reason why I created this self care channel.
If you need more, check out these two innovative offers that will truly empower you in the subtle art of posture correction:
you can get THE POSTURE MANUAL, my best-selling book with 15 readers-only posture correction videos - only if you buy it from my website: oliviergirard....
to enjoy a personal coach and a lifetime membership to my private Facebook group THE POSTURE ACADEMY, consider joining an ONLINE POSTURE PROGRAM: oliviergirard....
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Medical Disclaimer
All information, content, and material of this website is for informational purposes only and are not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis, and/or medical treatment of a qualified physician or healthcare provider.
Full disclaimer: oliviergirard....

[@Danbin_Luo]

Really hope more people discover your channel. Your content is too good not to be shared widely!

[@OlivierGirard]

thank you my friend!! I'll do my best, but any external help is more than welcome!!!

[@redzeppelin6659]

Thank you. The best channel about ergonomics

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank YOU!

[@dj1jesus375]

Totally agree! He's the best.

[@herrkrake8106]

Hey there, doc! Check Out kenesis 360 and tbk Mini For the bleeding Edge in Keyboard ergonomics. Buy the way, one can Put His Mouse in the left Hand with a numpad placed on the right side and never have such issues and that method costs nothing.

[@vampirequeenofficial]

What a wonderful review, thank you very much 👍

[@rp0000]

Great video! This is what I was looking for, I was unsure about buying the wave keys, I'll go for it.

[@madxkatz]

Thank you for your review of the wave vs k860 keyboard! I have my existing k860 keyboard and was wondering how it will match up with the new wave .. Now i understand, the difference of length of the two keyboards that you pointed out is very useful for me in my consideration :)

[@mohammedbantan6392]

Thank you for the scientific approach for your review. Just ordered my Logitech Wave!

[@Southtiger80]

thanks Olivier..I was bit confused before seeing your video..

[@sonjaj4916]

Good info, but it would be even better if you included some completely split keyboards (like Kinesis) into the comparison. I am using a partially split keyboard without a numeric block and two vertical mice (one on each side). I am right-handed so using the left hand is a bit of a struggle, but I think it's better if the load of mouse tasks isn't on just one hand :-). Maybe this will help someone.

[@lost_in_spice]

That is a great video. I'm just curious if you decided to keep using Logitech Wave? I cannot decide between K860 and Wave. It's nice to have the mouse closer, but it seems my hands and arms are being pushed closer to each other while with K860 they seem spread and more natural. So the video is 6 months old and would like to know your thoughts on Wave Keys. Thanks

[@robertoecf]

Same question here

[@fnaduran]

Thanks, i was looking for exactly that content. I used most logitecth keyboard and mouse products, i hope i like wavekeys too.

[@lkcj4498]

Thanks! Great info. I wish the K860 was narrower like the Wave & came in white. We can't have it all. LOL

[@maxfiialkovskyi5346]

really would love to see a quick review and showcase of custom built ergo keyboards like Corne, Planck, Dactyl and such

[@slimnino]

huge thanx for the best explanation!

[@dmeloTV]

Thanks for your review. I use a G915 TKL and it I that I would benefit from using the wave one. I just will wait on a good deal for me to buy. Those can go a little expensive here in Brazil.

[@jfalcon1977]

Thanks, great interesting video. I am also considering an ergonomic replacement coming from my usual (non ergo, non splitted designs) keyobard. Yesterday I was at the shop trying all of these and, honestly the size of the Wave Keys is way too small for me, I have to make effort and turn my wrists, so small it is for my hands (I am tall, 1.90m height amd with quite big hands). Also I think that the split design does not look like too complicated to get used to really, and can allow me to learn to type better and more effectively. However I must admit that I prefered the touch/pressing feeling of the other (third) Logitech option's buttons. I find maybe having the numeric keypad apart could be interesting. I use it a lot but could probably use it with my left hand and allow the keyboard to be closer to my Logitech MX vertical mouse.

[@justaskforbobdesign]

I have the K780, and I have the same issue as you is strange to type on it, I think the mistake is the flat profile of the keys and the round form of them. I feel my hands travel longer, however I love the compactness. But is hard to typ on it, I think I will try the waves. What I like about the wave and I see it in a video is how the numbers on top row are curved I think that resolves the issue of finger travel to use that number row. Thank you for your review very helpful

[@Sol-De-Invierno]

Bought the Logitech large Ergo and the trackball mouse a while ago for work, I think they are good

[@azulkarimeqa5172]

I've been following your videos on ergonomics for a while now and I've learned a lot from them, thank you!! I'm hoping you might be able to offer me some guidance on choosing an ergonomic keyboard. I am a 25-year-old woman with ulnar nerve subluxation in both arms and early stages of carpal tunnel syndrome. I am looking for a keyboard to use for many hours a day. I am currently considering three options: -The Logitech Wave keyboard that you featured in your video 4:15 -The Nulea RT06 foldable keyboard, which is a flat split keyboard without a wrist rest, - And the Perixx PERIBOARD-413W keyboard, which is also a split keyboard but with a wave and wrist rest. I have watched all of your videos on keyboards, heights, and wrist rests, but I am still unsure which option would be the best choice for me. Unfortunately, my doctors have not been able to provide me with guidance on this decision. I would greatly appreciate your opinion and advice on which keyboard I should try in my situation. Thank you for your time and consideration!!

[@OlivierGirard]

Hello dear, To be very honest, I doubt that a keyboard will resolve your problems. In view of what you tell me, there must be something more systemic (e.g., you leaning on your forearms, probably due to a lack of lumbar support). I have a lot of patients & clients who believe in the magic bullet that will resolve all their issues, but that's a BIG mistake. Furthermore, the choice of the keyboard depends on you (in part. how well you can touch-type) and your activity (in part. how much you need the numeric keypad). Finally, I haven't tested the 2 last ones of your list, so I don't feel comfortable giving you a definite opinion on them. Hence, my advice is that you consider fixing your posture before considering fixing your keyboard. The Posture Academy (oliviergirard.ch/en/posture-academy-online-program/) can help you with that, but you can also arrange a consultation with me via my webshop (oliviergirard.ch/en/shop/). I hope this makes sense...

[@S.W.Best-Author]

Thank you. As a writer of over 35 novels I have used almost every keyboard. I have been looking at the wave for a few weeks. I might buy it/try it.

[@chillinwithluis]

Did you buy and if so, thoughts?

[@TheLegokilla]

I just got the wave key board a couple of days ago. I can say the wrist rest is great, I can still easily touch type, but I still can’t really tell if the wave of the keyboard feels any better. I need to try it out for longer

[@dobi26jo37]

I love your videos, they are very helpful! What do u think about split keyboard without wrist rests?

[@dobi26jo37]

Or even with wrist rests

[@OlivierGirard]

Per se, the need for a wrist rest is more related to the thickness of the keyboard: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYW2ppugpbh_fsk. So if you have a thin spit keyboard, no problem without one!

[@dobi26jo37]

@@OlivierGirard okay thank you for answering :)

[@robertoecf]

Hey Olivier thanks for the video! I'm looking for a new bluetooth keyboard to use in the office, already using the MX Keys in my home and love it. But considering to get the wave, because I got some issues in the hands. I know standing alone this will not solve. But just wanted to know your opinion as specialist and user of the MX Keys a few months after the video. Did you replace your MX Keys with the Wave?

[@skarabeuszmozart8596]

thanks a lot for the review

[@CannedLaughter00]

using the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and it's numpad is separate so I have it on the left side. best idea ever. I feel the wrist rest is too small for my hands but that might actually make me lift my hands more when typing

[@RandallLind]

The 2023 Wave MK670 keyboard is nice however the combo one I got came with Signature M550 L Wireless Mouse. This mouse is not as good as it is missing back and forward buttons on the side. I may try them again later. I also have the old wave curve MK350 that came with the M705 mouse. I am still using the mouse for now.

[@tharumaravi]

Great video, thank you! Can you please compare the Logitech MX Mini vs Logitech MX Mechanical Mini?

[@OlivierGirard]

My pleasure! I don't have it with me but I can tell you what I'll find: the geometry is the same, what differs is the typing comfort. Hence, it's more an individual choice than anything else. Differences in key travel distance and striking force are too small to have a real impact on your health. There's just one thing that I didn't mention in my video: when you work in an open space, people complain about those using a mechanical keyboard because it makes too much noise 😤

[@tharumaravi]

@@OlivierGirard merci olivier :) will probably get the mechanical mini with the "silent" keys then

[@mangtian7373]

Personally I’ve enjoyed immensely the Kinesis 360. I have that keyboard, trackball mouse, and Embody & standing desk as the full setup. Also bought your book which has been very helpful

[@sngcelebi7040]

Really nice video! Could you do a similar video, but for mouse? I would love to know if ergonomic mouse are better than vertical mouse, and if both are better than regular mouse even if I would use it for playing games on pc. There are also some palm wrist support for mouse and keyboard that glides with your hands, I would like to know from an expert point of view if it's a gimmick o could be useful for our health!

[@OlivierGirard]

Thank you :) It was the plan indeed to shoot the next video on mouses :)

[@redzeppelin6659]

@@OlivierGirard Im looking forward to watching it

[@fabienneisore7831]

Try the Dygma Raise split keyboard. It is a game changer.

[@DygmaLab]

Have you explored more ergonomic keyboards? For example, split keyboards like the Dygma Raise or the Dygma Defy

[@OlivierGirard]

I have explored more over the years indeed, but not the Dygma ones. However, I am happy to test products that manufacturers send me, provided that they accept the fact that I will always publish an unbiased opinion and not send my videos for review before publication, whether I purchased the product or got it for free :)

[@Droodog127]

my poor microsoft 4000 started going wonky after well over a decade of use (still works but glitchy) , got the wave and have difficulty right now due to the compactness of the keys but I am starting to type this without looking at the keyboard with only a few missed keystrokes

[@bonylondon]

I've been finding the Wave Keys very cramped and am considering returning for a K860. I use a left-handed mouse, so I don't think I'll have the issue you're describing. I am wondering how many days to try to make the Wave Keys work before throwing in the towel.

[@OlivierGirard]

there's unfortunately no good answer for that. But definitely, one could imagine that depending on hand size, task, etc. you can feel some discomfort. Don't wait for too long before going back to what you know is comfortable, that's my advice

[@bonylondon]

@@OlivierGirardThanks. I ended up packing up my Waves Keys and going for the K860. We’ll see how it goes!

[@EmanresuThe]

Kinesis freestyle 2 VIP is my choice for the last 11 years 😎

[@isaiahsanchez7548]

Hello, what is your opinion on the negative tilt that the larger logitech keyboard offers?

[@mindlessgreen]

I have always wondered about that.

[@undertaker901]

What are your thoughts on key wells like the advantage 360 has?

[@OlivierGirard]

Good point! I think that they can indeed help reach a neutral posture (just make sure that they don't increase wrist extension). But as an ergonomist, I face 2 different issues: - advising individuals, in which case I can advise them to test that - advising companies, in which case I tell them that the overall acceptance of such keyboard will be so low that it's not worth recommending it as a standard alternative keyboard. You see what I mean?

[@undertaker901]

I see your point. Have to make the recommendation on a case by case basis.

[@ksojoel]

i think the best configuration for a wide body man like me is to have a splitted keyboard and a extra numpad placed on the center of both parts of the keyboard.

[@OlivierGirard]

possibly, provided that you don't use the numpad too much: central devices will tend to round your shoulders. So what you use most should indeed be in front of your elbows, whilst in front of your navel should be something that you use either less or with the 2 hands.

[@cuongtrithuc2139]

Professor, can you show me the correct sitting position to take the exam? Soon I have to take a 150-minute standardized test, with no breaks. The test requires the use of a handheld calculator and paper. How should I sit so I don't get tired from sitting for too long? Thank you

[@cuongtrithuc2139]

sorry for my bad English. I am Vietnamese.

[@OlivierGirard]

No problem! I also work with a large cheese-making factory in your country :) Check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6jbepmJntKqhqc and let me know if it helps!

[@cuongtrithuc2139]

@@OlivierGirard Con cảm ơn bác ạ!

[@b25671]

I think the wave keyboard is still to big. They should've made it's layout like the mx keys mech... WITH the home end pgup pgdown keys at the side.. actually they should update the split keyboard like this... because the split is better, arrow keys are better reachable, rest is wider. The model of the ms sculpt ergonomic keyboard is way better in my opinion.

[@nick066hu]

Hi, thank you for the video, talking about ergonomics, maybe someone can help me with the following: I do desktop publishing, I regularly edit a weekly publication (it is for internal use in a company) that has about 300 pages full of data and references (some words, some numbers) I copy and and paste from a dozen of sources I keep open on my three huge monitor-setup. There can be up to 50 references on a single page, in the averege it is around 10, this makes 3000 copy-paste operations for me in this weekly document. When I work I keep my right hand on a large size Wacom table with a stylus exactly pointing the cursor on a location (I need absolute positioning to be able to move quickly around, so no mopuse that I could just leave there) and with my only free left hand I perform the thousands of CTRL-Cs and CTRL-Vs single handedly. I can't imagine anything less ergonomic than having to press CTRL-C CTRL-V with a single hand. Each time (that is everz week) alreadz after the 100th I want to sue the whole industry, The inventor of this has ever tried it? why not CTRL-Q or CTRL-W instead? For those I wouldn't have to deform my hand so much. I have a very old Logitech 350 keyboard, that I could program into the top left two large buttons to act like as Copy and Paste, (can't see what these buttons originally were, the lettering has worn off in the first month, I'm at the depth of the spring now) My keyboard is really worn, it is time for something new. The problem: The keyboard remapping software solution is unreliable, sometimes it just does not work until I reboot the machine,I guess it is just not following my increasing Windows version number, like it is happening with many hardware. What I am continuously looking for a decade already: Any keyboard with CTRL-C and CTRL-V done in hardware, ie. by electronic. Without any remapping software hacks. I just need those two extra buttons, no fancy lights, curves, pads, key-travel-force tuning, adjustable clicking sound pitch and volume. just gimme those two buttons. Any clues for such a keyboard? Nobody has ever needed them? Just try to click CTRL-C with a single hand a hundred times and jugde it yourself how ergomic is that.

[@matthewbonner100]

should you rest your palms on the pads when not typing or is that bad?

[@nickgoogle4525]

In most cases it is bad, and you should get the keyboard close to you, so you do not have to support your arms or hands.

[@agoogleuser6937]

Does de Wave do not reduce your productivity?

[@OlivierGirard]

Not that I'm aware of... why do you think this?

[@luisprado1539]

i think it is just better to buy a numpad and put it to the left

[@OlivierGirard]

Correct. It’s just that many people can’t do anything with their left hand, and it’s getting difficult (at least in Switzerland) to find thin wireless numpads

[@Music_Quizz]

I would very much like an advice my mom has Carpal tunnel syndrome and i really want to buy her mouse and keyboard, what would you suggest?

[@OlivierGirard]

get her a vertical mouse (Logitech Lift) and a compact keyboard without any tilt, but mainly make sure that she doesn't rest the wrists on the table whilst typing...

[@waleedmuhammed8720]

المعذرة لم اقتنع، ربما يعتمد الأمر فقط على حجم الجسد / مساحة الصدر، اذا كان لديك صدر عريض فمن الافضل استخدام لوحه مفاتيح عريضه وابعاد الماوس، سمعت ايضا ان البعض يعاني مما يسمى "يد الفأر" بحيث لا يجد الراحه عندما يعمل ويديه بجانب بعضهما البعض، اعتقد ان السبب الرئيس في صناعه لوحات مفاتيح مدمجه صغيره هو سهوله حملها ونقلها لاستخدامها مع الاجهزه المحمولة مثل التابلت والهاتف، لكن استخدام لوحات المفاتيح العريضه والواسعه بالتاكيد سيكون افضل عند العمل الجاد والكتابه الطويله، كذلك وجود لوحه ارقام منفصله قد يكون شئ اساسي للمحاسبين كما ذكرت، لكن بالنسبه لعامة الناس ايضا فان استخدام لوحه ارقام منفصله سيسرع بشكل كبير جدا من كتابة الارقام والتي تعتبر جزء اساسي متكرر من عملية الكتابه حتى اذا لم تكن محاسبا. في النهايه نعم ربما بالغت لوجيتك قليلا في حجم لوحه المفاتح k680 لكن الامر لا يتعدى كونه اهدار لمساحه العمل فقط .

[@dontblinkoryouwillmissme]

can i play fps games and moba games using logitech wave keys?

[@OlivierGirard]

what would your criterias be?

[@dontblinkoryouwillmissme]

@@OlivierGirard i dont particularly have one. i just simply want to know if it can withstand heavy clicks because most mechanical keyboards are durable so heavy clicking is not a problem but this keyboard is not a mechanical keyboard (probably) and i want a keyboard that is durable and quite to click on at the same time because i hate noisy clicks like mechanical keyboards are.

[@georgea.lozano2619]

Switch our mouse to your left hand! It only takes 1 hour to get used to it.

[@OlivierGirard]

For lucky people :) I'm left handed myself and it takes much more effort than that. But that's one of the business cases of the RollerMouse that I'm currently reviewing

[@MaxWright7]

I tried the K860, it's bad. Keys require too much force, travel distance is too short, and keys bottom out too hard, I get pain in fingers from using it. Also the wrist rest is not comfortable at all. Don't recommend.