Esotericism in Philosophy: Pythagoras and Parmenides

Philosophy is taken to be the paragon of rational argumentation and logical analysis but I want to explore the esoteric and mystical aspect of ancient Greek philosophy - a dimension often ignored or unstressed . This is the first in a series that will explore this more arcane side of western philosophy from ancient Greece to contemporary analytic and continental schools.
Support Esoterica on Patreon: / esotericachannel
Recommended Readings:
Kirk, Raven and Schofield - The Presocratic Philosophers: A Critical History with a Selection of Texts - 978-0521274555
Philosophy Before Socrates - Richard D. McKirahan - 978-1603841825
Eric Dodds - The Greeks and the Irrational - 978-0520242302
Walter Burkert - Lore and Science in Ancient Pythagoreanism - 978-0674539181
Charles Kahn - Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans - 978-0872205758
Peter Kingsley - Ancient Philosophy, Mystery, and Magic: Empedocles and Pythagorean Tradition - 978-0198150817
Parmenides - Martin Heidegger - 978-0253212146 (caveat lector!)
#esotericism #presocratic #philosophy

[@livelaughstuck]

Finding out that Pythagoras had his own secret religious order and wasn't just "the math guy" was a big eye opener to me as I recently started researching western occultism. Very interested to continue the journey learning how closely tied mysticism and "logical" western philosophy is. Thank you for this channel!

[@alexandros6433]

Try to study the philosophy of mathematics and you will see that its core questions are ontological. And mathematics is metaphysical

[@d.b.624]

Seriously, the pythagorean theorem was my introduction to irrational numbers...why would that lead him to drown a guy.

[@hyponovalive]

You should check out Peter Kingsley’s work. He is pioneering the disruption of the narrative that the early philosophers were all about reason logic and the roots of science

[@RKGrizz]

I would love to hear more about those Egyptian and other bronze age philosophers.

[@williammartinactor]

I am randomly listening to all of your lectures. How marvelous to find my way back to how you began this whole incredible adventure. What a great beginning. Such a fine second lecture. Thank you.

[@davidscott4919]

We're happy that, even after watching these videos for months, we can find something that drastically changes our view of the "pre-rational" world. So much of Western math and philosophy is so deeply entrenched in Near-Eastern thought and yet we're taught these ancient Greeks came up with it all themselves to combat the horrors of religion. Thank you x a million for the perspective

[@SeekersofUnity]

This was soooo good.

[@greggrobinson5116]

As always! Wonderfully informative and not too "analyticy"!

[@elodiesalgado4739]

I’m watching this 3 year old video after watching your videos the last 2 years & you’ve come a long way baby! Always great material but your delivery and presentation have reached a new level. I’d love a an expansion redesign of this too.

[@chuckhainsworth4801]

I became fascinated by Pythagoras, and Paracelsus (but that's another story), when I took a "History and Philosophy of Science" course at university. Coming from a background of Astronomy and Mathematics, I was overwhelmed by the beauty of what I learned. And plenty of head scratching too. It added to my search in a most delightful way. I find myself torn between wanting you to discuss people I am familiar with to see where current research has led, and people who are little more to me than just a name.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Hopefully I'll do a bit of both. The channel is still quite new and covering some more famous folks helps to get a footing. I'm sure that Numenius of Apamea - who basically built the metaphysics for the Corpus Hermeticum - will get an episode at some point and most folks have never heard of him. Hope you will stick around in the meantime. Thanks for your thoughtful comments!

[@dennismartin5821]

I don't really have a formal education. I have to rely largely on content such as this, to basically educate myself. Would you say that this is an accurate assessment of the subject?

[@Mrm3t21]

@@dennismartin5821 from my philosophy background everything makes sense and sounds perfectly academic

[@wendywywrot7600]

I hope you read or have read "In the Dark Places of Wisdom" by Peter Kingsley, you will love it !

[@mritay2u]

@@dennismartin5821 This is a brief review of the Philosophy espoused by Pythagoras and Parmenides. These men sought explanations based on Natural Law versus the Action of deities. They used Intellect & Mathematics to describe the Cosmos. The study of being/existance/reality to find the Prime Mover as a distinct inquiry from Theology is credited to its founder, Parmenides. Using the intellect to describe the Point-Line-Plane, the Object, Rotation, Vibration(is Sound), the Harmonic, & Music of all Reality/Cosmos.

[@howl4787]

Peter Kingsley's "In the Dark Places of Wisdom" and "Reality" has a lot to say about Parmenedie's mysticism.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Absolutely !

[@TaurusVenus]

Yes! I stumbled a copy of "In the Dark Places of Wisdom" yesterday and am totally excited/engrossed.

[@andrewjung6987]

@@TaurusVenus have you read any of his other writings? Absolute magician.

[@TaurusVenus]

@@andrewjung6987 I haven’t yet but I’ve bought a few more, and intend to! Would be interesting to discuss with others.

[@andrewjung6987]

@@TaurusVenus I’ve finished catafalque and a story waiting to pierce you aside from dark places of wisdom and reality. What a journey those take you on. Sadly, I find it difficult finding others who are interested in these for some reason.

[@jrhenry432]

really love your channel. i was born Catholic, went into Christianity with church, then Buddhist, messianic and then judasim... gnostic and esoteric knowledge is what seems to resegnate most with me after all the teachings. im glad to have found your channel.

[@gabikoyenov]

I've been loving your videos! This is my favorite channel on KZbin right now.

[@jkaneshirosan]

this is sooo fucking good!! its so hard to find more information on pythagoras and magick theory, i want more

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Glad you found it interesting! Stick around!

[@strawberryego6669]

We are all so lucky 🍀 that they _exist_ Thank you again Dr. Justin Sledge 🤩

[@M0U53B41T]

Excellent video! The lack of mysticism* is part of the reason I've really been enjoying Peter Adamson's History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps. I always appreciate your listing of books for further reading! As a (once) Ancient Greek student, I especially love to learn more about Parmenides esp. *I mean being covered in standard Philosophy classes/books.... mind got a bit ahead of me!

[@RemnantCult]

This is an entire course in one playlist. Thank you very much for sharing this knowledge. It is appreciated and valued.

[@TheNovaFiends]

Just discovered this channel. I have been starting to get more into applied occult techniques after spending so long reading about it, as I finally found a reason to attempt rather than absorb. This channel already looks like a treasure trove of information. Love the Chopin intro as well.

[@JDG602]

I was reading a history book and they actually had the gull to say Ancient Egypt had no contribution to the thinkers and philosophers of the world. My mouth would not close. According to some of these people, Greek's are the gods of everything cultured. Not at all trying to diminish what the Greeks have done they are one of my favorite civilizations of the human world. Oh and I want to thank you for your book lists although if I keep looking at them I am pretty sure I will go broke.

[@Chiquepeace]

Fantastic presentation! So glad to find you and very much appreciate the content you are creating.

[@thatoneginger]

All of your videos are gems. I can’t stop watching.

[@dontchewglass]

Please make a video dedicated to Mesopotamian philosophy and technical esoterica, that sounds incredibly interesting

[@davidlester8003]

What a great way to start a video! Caught my attention from start to end, loved it.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Thanks - glad you enjoyed it. Check out the rest of the channel!

[@markdpricemusic1574]

Superb. I often wondered why Egyptian thinking on eg the multiplicity of the soul, crossing the Duad, etc are almost universally de-valued to ''mere myth and superstition' - while Plato's tripartite division of humanity and the Myth of Er etc are seen as the most profoundly significant (if also faulty) speculations. This talk confirms my suspicions it is simply a local European bias. Many thanks! M.

[@nickgangadis8679]

Another excellent and integral video on esoteric philosophy. Kudos!

[@marykayryan7891]

You raise such an interesting point. I would go one further. The "esotericism" and "mysticism" of many, many philosophers is either downplayed or excised entirely. (Newton anyone? Descartes, what!?). But this extends to those outside the philosophical tradition. My thesis was on the historical methodology used to examine medicine, which again suppresses anything that does not fit within this rationalist model. Hippocrates, for instance (about whom we have very scant evidence indeed but who is none-the-less called "the father of western 'rational' medicine) was an Asclepiad, a mystical form of Greek medicine (or at least his father was). And again when Hippocrates argued that "epilepsy" was located in "the head," he was not talking about the brain per se as modern historians try to argue, but was engaged in the debate of the location of the soul. (Aristotle and everybody else said it was in the heart.) The list of this revisionist history is almost endless. Astrology, a deeply important western 'science' that impacted many things including medicine-- almost totally absent from any serious scholarly discussions. And on and on and on. Rationalism has become a rather fascist ideology that suppresses all other ways that people have availed themselves of, to know about their reality.

[@evyberm801]

Your work is immensely appreciated sir! Thank you.

[@Mdme.X]

TY for starting your channel! This is what I've been looking for since 1990s - appx time i began studying, book collecting practicing etc. I may finally go to university to study this. Awesome 🙌

[@ChrisLively]

Greetings from Chattanooga, TN. I am thrilled to see this topic! There's nothing on any channel I would rather learn about. Thanks for sharing.

[@harem_polycule]

always been interested in this topic of the video. thank you so much for this

[@joekennedy5110]

Great Video/Info Dr Sledge!

[@evyberm801]

Thank you Dr. Justin Sledge, I appreciate the book recommendations!

[@hexagondun]

The Burkert text on the Pythagoreans is public domain and available for free on the Internet Archive.

[@F3z07]

Oh man, I was struggling with Parmenides just yesterday! Thank you, Doctor!

[@TaurusVenus]

Thank you for this. I stumbled across Parmenides just yesterday, when I picked up a copy of "In the Dark Places of Wisdom" by Peter Kingsley, and couldn't stop reading. This is absolutely fascinating material!!

[@traviswadezinn]

Excellent talk, very much enjoyed it

[@klh1133]

I really love your content, well done Dr.I can see you creating a school for Esoteric studies. Yes, please.

[@martinwilliams9866]

The idea that number is all, is basically modern quantative science, especially Max Tegmark's Digital Physics or John Wheeler's "It from Bit! Quantum mechanics shows us that matter is probabilistic, it sort of pops from non-being & then into being & back again.

[@1natVson1NATIVESON]

Strong points made… 💪🏾💯✊🏾 RESPECT ⚔️ HONOR !!! I appreciate you addressing the importance of looking outside of the European continent in order to serve philosophy highlighting the significance of Egypt (Kemet) and Mesopotamia.

[@sebastianrobledo1102]

Thomas Stanley's "The History of Philosophy" is wonderful because he is honest enough not to separate philosophy and mysticism, particularly his writings on Pythagoras is amazing!

[@stevenbollinger9776]

I didn't realize that other people had that thing where they think their phone vibrated. All this time I just assumed it was a very unusual phenomenon I experienced. Never occurred to me to talk to others about it.

[@pitbul8183]

DearJustin as a white originally Christian Protestant raised man at 60 years old I find myself on a spiritual journey trying to resolve conflict from within myself learn to become a better husband, father and person I am reading currently several books on Jewish mysticism and the Kabbalah I am also a Master Mason and relate the roots of it too early Jewish history and actually I'm looking for more depth than that but I am completely fascinated with early history especially with regard to Judaism which I consider to be a much more pure faith then what I grew up with. Thank you for always presenting the subject in such an intelligent easy-to-understand matter even though sometimes it is a struggle not coming from that culture. But you always do an amazing job presenting the subject and making it easy to comprehend thank you for helping me along my journey.

[@jswjanjan]

Wonderful! Thank you Doc🙏👍❤

[@SKP-op4vd]

Thanks for the wonderful videos, Dr Sledge. I wonder if you would consider doing an episode on Apolonius of Tyana?

[@RocketKirchner]

That’s why the Early Church father’s other than Tertullian loved the mystical pre Socratics

[@jameshitt3263]

I love pre-Socratic philosophers. They're so overlooked. (I know that interest is partially sparked by the multiple times I've had to re-start my Copleston History of Philosophy book 1 after putting it down for too long...lol)

[@Tarnbar]

Very interesting channel, nice find!

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Glad you like the channel!

[@joshualehman4477]

The New Testament is a great verifier of how the Greeks were definitely wrapped up in mythos - when Paul went in to start preaching the Gospel, he notice that had altars to gods everywhere - and he was led by the Holy Spirit to use the altar that stated “to the unknown God” - Paul said, I come to share THAT God with you. It’s a shame that the Bible has been so downplayed. It’s the greatest “esoteric” book on earth. It even tells us are weapons in God that a MIGHTY in casting down strongholds. We fight not flesh - but principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness & wickedness in high places. This is STILL a spiritual/magical battle - and the Christians were DECEIVED into believing it’s all fake and just pay your ties. 🥴 But The Great Awakening continues :) I appreciate very much your insights - it strengthens my faith! I’d love to see a comparison to Jesus in a fully scholastic way. No opinion, just a reference of Who He is, textually, in comparison to the “others” textually. I think it would be fantastic! God bless you!

[@alivewell2920]

The bible is full of lies. Religion is the oldest pyramid scheme known to mankind.

[@miguelatkinson]

Calling the bible the "greatest "esoteric book"is a real insult to some great spiritual texts out there

[@joshs7178]

Fantastic, as usual

[@MrLumagu]

Great work!

[@henripepels815]

I read all/most of Kingsley's books, finished Catafalque a couple of months ago. Except from 'A story waiting to pierce you' I brought at least something home from all of them. I studied philosophy more than 40 y. ago, and I definitely felt the way these 'pre-socratics' were presented to us had a huge blind corner, but I could not get my finger behind it then. Kingsley proved to be a great help. My favorite was and still is Heraclitus. 'Physis kriptesthai philei', 'nature loves to hide (itself)' as he claims, nature/reality showing/veiling herself in hiding; and 'The Lord at Delphi neither speaks nor hides his meaning, but gives a sign', meaning this multi faceted, bow-carrying half-brother of Dionysos - according to Heraclitus the same as Hades - does the same as nature: he speaks out, indirectly though, again veiled, not in a common sense, for we need to follow the sign in order to understand it. The one who got me hooked was the Italian philosopher Giorgio Colli. He was a firm esoteric, non-dual thinker, though known almost exclusively through his edition of Nietzsches complete work. Thanks for the work. I definitely will be back to enjoy.

[@PapaYo4XXX]

Great presentation

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Thank you! Hope you find the other content interesting as well!

[@theBrzrkr1]

Miguel Connor sent me. I love your channel mate.

[@Totallynonplagerizedleatherguy]

I find it amusing that we're all engaging in esotericism by coming here to watch this video. To learn it's secrets.

[@albertbobi3032]

Interesting video and channel, you gained a new subscriber

[@ellenbryn]

Oh, I wish I could still read this stuff in the original Greek. I loved Kirk, Raven and Schofield when I was a grad student majoring in classics in the 90s. I really liked Parmenides. One thing he was struggling with, which doesn't come across in translation, is that the Greek verb for "to be" also encompasses the English verb "to become." Language shackles thought, and I think Parmenides was straining against the tension between those two concepts. Which was a pretty big deal, since he was attempting to get at the fundamental ur-verb of reality, "to on," "the being" (I note he doesn't use an infinitive; he's got the definite article, then a present participle, "being," treated as a noun, like "the good, the bad, and the ugly.") Greek's inability to distinguish being from becoming affected Parmenides' philosophical examination of the idea of change. HIs thought proceeds as follows. - The only things which exist are things which exist. (Duh). In other words, X = X. - Things which don't exist- that's a contradiction, we can't even talk about a thing which does not exist, because that's like saying: X = not X. - You cannot get something from nothing, because again, that would imply: not X becomes X. - But that calls into question the idea of change, which is something existing that WAS NOT THERE BEFORE. It's different. X has become not X. I'm not quite sure that having the concept of "becoming" entirely solves Parmenides' conundrum. He might argue the idea of "becoming" is itself impossible, because again, it's implying something that wasn't there before, and you can't get something out of nothing. But it might help: pointing out that the THING was there before and is still there; it's just changed its state. I dunno. I'm arguing with a chap who's been dead for 2500 years. I just appreciated his argument, because I'm not really a philosopher, but I could follow his logic- even though it led to a really astonishing and preposterous conclusion- and I was impressed by how he got there. Except his poem is so very strange. I got the impression the visionary journey with the goddess and the chariot and all that was a myth, "doxa," and then he says "but that's not true, what's REALLY true is this utterly impossible thing that's logically consistent but doesn't match our perception of reality." As if his mind was shying away from the disturbing conclusion he was coming to, and took refuge in a poetic vision of reality, even knowing it wasn't true- but at least it made more sense? I feel a certain sympathy for him, fighting for clarity like a drowning man fighting for air. I wonder what he would've made of the Big Bang theory and the singularity before it.

[@rajahbeetle3913]

Fabulous video! Subbed!

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Thanks - will be doing more esotericism in philosophy episodes in the future so stay tuned for those!

[@lelalelui5683]

Brilliant as usual :)

[@astrix_qb4770]

I wanna study this 🤔 great video

[@cherokeegypsymama]

Love this!

[@elodiesalgado4739]

Thanks!

[@IntuitiveWellnessAdelaide]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@bridboland8839]

Thank you

[@michielkarskens2284]

It is a certainty Pythagoras was in Mesopotamia. Numerous sources state he was in Babylon, it is where he learned arithmetic and music. One relatively late source you will find interesting is Eusebius of Caesarea in his Praeparatio Evangelica.

[@SuperBadger8]

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who felt that level of fury when I first learned about irrational and imaginary numbers.

[@joeroubidoux2783]

Beautiful

[@mikeyrambo2742]

I would love to see a video about Van hoenheim.

[@peterharkness2211]

i'm quite ignorant about esotericism but this channel seems really serious and good! A question. Do you think there are any mystical or esoteric aspects in any post socratic philosophy as well? If yes could you give some examples?

[@dennismartin5821]

I like this guy. He's very "matter of fact," and that's admirable.

[@willkrummeck]

wonderful

[@matthewkopp2391]

The Druze religion considers Pythagoras Aristotle Plato Empedocles and paramenides as the five prophets from Ancient Greece. The next five profits were Jesus, John the Baptist, Matthew, Mark and Luke And the next five prophets were Mohammad, Ali, And three others. Thrree ages of prophets. Where did they get this idea from? Obviously there is a mystical element to Pythagoras, Empedocles, Paramidides but could Aristotle and Plato have been considered prophets medicine men in Ancient Greece too?

[@GabyG48]

This reminds me of the new spiderman movie when Peter outdid doctor strange with his knowledge in math

[@HellMxge]

Very cool!

[@SatanikanataS]

As an occultist with a degree in philosophy, I geeked out on this video, especially in seeing Parmenides get some attention. Esoterica is my new favorite esoteric channel.

[@noahfranks984]

Brooo Kirk and Raven is sooo good. I would also add Heideggers lectures on the presocratic philosohers. In fact Heidegger is all over this topic

[@stephendelacruzone]

The "Western Occultist" within me... gives you a very respectful nod. 👍😏

[@Akamaholic]

I'm a(n unofficial) student of philosophy. Pythagoras and Parmenides are two of my favorite philosophers so I was delightfully surprised when I watched this episode. Pythagoras's view on the mathematical perfection of nature makes me think he'd have a great conversation with Leonardo Fibonacci since the golden ratio also implies there's a mathematic beauty to nature. It also seems Parmenides predated Descartes's brand of rationalism and hyperbolic doubt. I wonder how he'd feel about Cartesian Dualism. I've been watching Esoterica sequentially and I just have to say I've been enjoying the show so far!

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

I agree re: Pythagoras and Fibonacci and Descartes is such an interesting subject. I'll be doing a video on the possible influence of non-rational concepts and ideas on the foundations of rationalism, so look for that one sometime soonish. Thanks for watching and I hope the content continues to interest you. I'll be keeping up a section on the esoteric in philosophy so stay tuned!

[@ohelno]

Ok. Now I think I understand what happened to me one day 12 years ago while having a coffee and contemplating the notion of “nothing/zero”. Something dramatic happened in my mind while trying to understand it; like the word collapsed and was revealed to be an illusion which had imprisoned me in an psycho-ontological duality. I felt ecstatic and somehow infinite or something like that. Theeeeen it quickly went away and I assumed I had been delusional. Been mostly miserable ever since. Now i think maybe it was perhaps like what Parmenides was talking about.

[@utuber7252]

Ahhhh not many classes I miss, but yours I miss. Buttt nooooo thanks to corono. Regardless, keep it up. This is meant for you

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Yeah, this damn corono. Hope the semester is going well just the same!

[@anonymoushuman8344]

Peter Kingsley's first three books are interesting on these matters.

[@moshiyadebroek7583]

its so good to see the effort of openess, but it will be put to the test. if not through the study focusing on and by the knowledge gained has not created a theory which then becomes the focusing tool in further research. i will ask if i may share a few bread crumbs never revealed before so that it may open a door to meet him.

[@FrankMonday]

Nice! What baffles me is that your vids are still under 10,000 likes per vid. I mean what do they want...?

[@AzraNoxx]

Really, I keep coming back to this feeling that ancient Greek and Buddhist philosophy often boils down to the same idea, but interpreted in different ways. In the Western tradition, it seems common to say that all is one and all is being. All those line segments add up to a line. Whereas the Buddhists also see how everything is made up of pieces and conclude that all is emptiness or non-being. The line falls apart into line segments and cannot be said to exist in itself. In a way they're both making the same observation. Their way of describing it is different.

[@WhoeverNevermind]

Thanks for the video. If you can read spanish, i would suggest reading Panikker´s "Filosofía y mística" (or "Philosophy and mystics"). Nothing revolutionary in the book but i think you might find it interesting

[@k57x3]

the chirping birds on ~5:30

[@alexcp2330]

Could you give some sources about Mesopotamian and Egyptian intellectual texts prior to Archaic Greeks?

[@helenbostock2350]

Great

[@ChrisLively]

What was up with the rust red used for so much esoteric art? Its found in allot of ancient civilizations artifacts.

[@vatirhea]

I am recommending your channel to my fellow lovers of the Perennial Wisdom Tradition. You provide a fresh, no nonsense and quality source of information. Thank you so much.

[@thetruth9783]

@16:19 > > > > > > heres a link to a PDF of that Walter Burkert book b-ok.cc/book/2345236/f7b1f3

[@Ernestiqus]

You make a great point with your question at 2:12 . What philosophers would you consider to be an answer to it though? Would The Presocratic Philosophers and Philosophers before Socrates have something on these?

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

It's a great question. I would say that both the Egyptians and Mesopotamian cultures both created written philosophical texts. I would point to Instructions of Shuruppak and the Sumerian/Akkadian Pessimism literature (c.f., the book of Qohelet/Ecclesiastes in the Hebrew Bible), along with many Instructions Texts in Egypt such as The Maxim's of Ptahhotep, the Instructions of Kagemni, Instruction of Amenemope, etc., along with the Debate Between the Sufferer and his Soul among others. Further, many Greek philosophers weren't Greek. Some, Like Zeno of Citium was a Phoenician by birth. So a few pre-Greek philosophical texts - hope this helps! I can also help with some collections of these texts and others if you are interested.

[@danterosati]

@@TheEsotericaChannel I have no ideological prejudice against there being Egyptian "philosophy" but the examples that are put forward, like the Instructions of Shuruppak are more like "fatherly advice". If we use Aristotle's definition of philosophy as knowledge of first causes, then I don't see how this qualifies?

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

@@danterosati I tend to think of philosophy as being comprised as Metaphysics (which would include Aristotle's project), Logic, Epistemology, aesthetics and ethics. I would include documents like the Instructions within the philosophical domain of ethics. Not metaphysics but still under the purview of philosophy more generally.

[@danterosati]

@@TheEsotericaChannel wouldn't there have to be some kind of account (logos), or at least discussion, of >why< those admonitions were being given, or what kind of life is achievable through following them, and why that kind of life is desirable, for it to qualify as philosophy rather than folk-wisdom? (unless we want to reduce philosophy to just another form of folk-wisdom which now that I think about it, is not out of the question lol. but still, I don't think I am willing to put Plato and Aristotle's views on ethics on the same level with "You should not have sex with your slave girl: she will chew you up")

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

@@danterosati It's true - we don't get something like what we now call a 'meta-ethics' in the Shurrupak text and the text seems to be largely appealing to prudence or, perhaps, the principle of utility. Though, from a pov of moral repugnance we could keep in mind Aristotle's view of 'natural slavery.' But no, I would agree something like the Instructions is no where nearly as developed as Plato (though, even Plato's meta-ethics while metaphysically interesting remains very vague and un-developed) and Aristotle. But, as far as I read it, still reasoning about ethics which, for me, would allow for me to group it as a philosophical text. No a very sophisticated one, to be sure and very much to your point.

[@6gr89]

The Greek "All is one" sounds a lot like "Hymn to Pan", phonetically.

[@mu3877]

Would you say the whoe are the pre-greek philosophers or their writings or maybe you would do a video about it ?

[@jawz2005]

Pre-Greeks philosophers? You mean Ancient philosophers outside of Greece?

[@K_F_fox]

I didn't expect Heidegger. I guess I'm new at this.

[@rubennieto5311]

Is it necesary for me to learn, for example, Greek, Egyptian, or any other ancient languages to read the works of ancient Philosophers? How much is the translation gap?

[@rubennieto5311]

It pains me to say it because today's society's etiquette is "snob" I believe... But I am Mexican, know English and am working on my French, Latin and Hebrew this winter vacations! I got really interested in other languages and the occult, and been binge-watching some of these videos :)

[@daledheyalef]

Excellent video! Are you on Twitter?

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Not yet - I'll probably expand the social media as the channel grows!

[@daledheyalef]

@@TheEsotericaChannel You definitely should. Great way to connect with a community other creators as well, not only with your viewers

[@Ssatkan]

I think Thales' view that nature is full of gods might fit here as well. Funnily, in studying mathematics, I did learn that he picked up his famed theorems in Egypt. What he did for mathematics is far more groundbreaking: He proved these theorems and basically was the first mathematician as we understand the term today.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

For sure, though it isn't clear what he means from that fragment. But yes, Thales gives us the first logical deduction in history a truly monumental achievement!

[@Ssatkan]

I just reread it and learned that one should not hastily type comments while the video runs. The theorems about the formulae from Egypt are of course Pythagoras', Thales is just the notion that everything is full of gods.

[@piperar2014]

Those who consider logos superior to mythos created mythos about the origin or logos? That's a full day's requirement of irony in a single convenient serving.

[@jawz2005]

Interesting

[@testostyrannical]

Having finished Burkert's book, have to assume at least a handful of scholars must have been driven to the brink of insanity trying to recuperate a sensible version of Pythagoras from what remains in the fragments. If he had just been the mathematical equivalent of Orpheus (at the end of the day, what the Greeks made him into, whoever he really was in life), it would have been easier to digest, but of course he was a real guy who left behind enough biographical details that he could never be fully dissolved into the myths.

[@terrywallace5181]

Which "Pre-Socratic" said something like, "You can never step in the same river twice.?"

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Heraclitus, that old wierdo :)

[@PKAnon]

Great episode. A little disappointed by the potshot at Heidegger at the end.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Thanks - I was also pretty disappointing about Heidegger at the end. Very important philosopher and should be carefully read, studied and taught widely - also unrepentant, opportunist Nazi. Here it's less a potshot: I was addressing the difficulty of the literature and Heidegger's text on Parmenides has to be among the most difficult but also Heidegger at his most....uh.....Heideggeracious and I mean that as a compliment to his real philosophical and creative genius. I just (1) wouldn't want anyone to pick up that text first and (2) anyone who wants to remain an unrepentant Nazi just might have to deal with that reputation.

[@mattstefon4878]

The only Greek miracle I care about is the spanakopita at Olympos Bakery in Lowell, Mass.