Esports Mount Rushmore - LS (BW)

[@meinardsl]

I'd like to see an episode about 'the one who shall not be named'. Controversial? Absolutely. But what he did for the game is undeniably great for the time and deserves discussion.

[@sebastiaanpeters2971]

Ow boy, can't wait. Great host and great guest talking about the best e-sports of all time

[@jamesparker9501]

er u on crack kid? You must be watching His LoL coverage which is pretty decent i admit, but in terms of BW he's a known cheat

[@sebastiaanpeters2971]

In broodwar yes, but he was someone with a lot of potential in SC2

[@jamesparker9501]

Gravestones are littered with people who 'had potential' this guy is a straight up 'wrong'un' cheat. This is a video about BW and that is what this scumbag is known for. He's moved into LoL now and he is very insightful and clearly understands the meta game to a very high level but the word 'cheat' will never leave him because of his BW past and his poor actions.

[@impulsive1252]

Yeah, boohoo, the guy cheated when he was like 13 years old, get over it.

[@ZakRoM]

Who would've known, NaDa is in Ro24 of ASL7. 20 years later the legend still alive

[@NoradNoxtus]

Started getting into Broodwar recently, these are great to watch :)

[@WisteriaBerlitz]

Never played a single game of SC:BW, but listened to the whole thing. Would be nice if there were compilations on SCBW's pro history.

[@Rupi57]

Great episode. Let's keep spreading the love for BW!

[@wowstefaniv]

LS looks like an anime char that has the flu

[@VenganceWarrior]

I have never really played Starcraft but I just love this. Its like class with your favorite eSport personalities about history (nearly) everybody has missed. Sorta sad in a way. I wish I was part of all of this when it was hot.

[@keven444]

God these history videos are so cool

[@user-jc3vy6tc1n]

Hahaha, googled LS at start, I was big into BW btw, and holy shit. Last Shadow!

[@SilvioPorto]

For anyone wondering, LastShadow. "LS" means LastShadow.

[@EvelynDayless]

Good that you mention that. Based on the episode, I assumed it meant "LadyShadow," that he was a FTM transexual, and googling it would result in reverse trapping.

[@tmadeviant5375]

nope he ist just gay

[@Fesovika]

ohh shit tommorow I am going to watch. TOo bad it's already 2am in here ;_; Thanks for treating Broodwar fans with respect

[@gurraglad]

Remember watching LS back in the day. Always interesting to hear his opinion.

[@MiguelFernandez-xy3vf]

does he have content about broodwar? where can i see it . Thanks

[@pwnzor81]

There's a guy called SonicFox in Mortal Kombat X now, formerly in Injustice and MK 9, who is just an insane talent. He has been the best player consistently for 3 years straight now and it's not even close.

[@zackveno2779]

Eclectic Shokunin Except he lost in the GF at SCR like a month ago.

[@pwnzor81]

Biscuits What does that have to do with being the best ? He went on to win 3 events in a row after that.

[@JUNGLEsausage]

Yeah, but it's Mortal Kombat.

[@ThePandE]

It's MK and Injustice the two simplest fighting games. It's not like Sonic is dominating SFV and Guilty Gear.

[@pwnzor81]

Sure mate

[@sandrobatinovic3761]

LS and Thooorin PogChamp

[@user-tn3qb9rs7g]

LS seems so happy the first minute

[@blondedd]

YESSSSSSSSSSSS BW

[@SenecaFTW]

What is the game they talk about at around 1:21:25? The one where Flash "pulls out the Flash build"

[@richardandras9215]

SenecaFTW still BW, Flash is the best player with the highest skill ever in a e-sport game

[@DontPushDaRiver]

ls is scary, i dont want to go out anymore

[@rustlebonez8123]

>born in rhode island in 1993 Damn, it's almost guaranteed I've met LS before.

[@gpolenik]

How can you undermine the career of Daigo? The guy has been winning for like 20 years :D

[@luminous3558]

Gapi P Korea > the rest of the world

[@87Cirus]

They dont, you should isten to the segment again

[@mrsnrub71]

I think we need an e-sports Mount Rushmore with fox from CSGO

[@JoaoPereira-rg3bq]

Do a "Reflections with Shox" Ask him about a possible 3rd Shuffle on the french scene and About the ideia Of playing with KennyS

[@JoaoPereira-kv1eu]

João Pereira Nice idea bruh

[@cerealsgames3118]

Yes mate, Thorin's just got to keep his fan boy dick out of his hand during it.

[@uwaisroman9009]

Yess !!

[@alexbui7686]

off topic but your article _Jaedong - The Tyrant who hated to lose_ cannot be attained. I'd love to read it the one of aceresports? some weird shit happened and it disappeared

[@imnevx]

[@richardandras9215]

1:24:10 still hold on that day, never ever a game gonna overtake Brood War

[@dabom88]

Coming in without any prior knowledge. My guesses. Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Boxer.

[@tiagomota4734]

where is bisu and jangbi?!

[@GeekGamer19]

YAS BROODWAR AND LS

[@Saiakaa]

58:25 I actually remember Slog and I spent most of the starcraft scene in SC2 not BW.

[@PyroDrek]

Look, I think not having Flash in the list does make sense since LS already had 3 Terran players on Mount Rushmore. However, surely not including Jaedong warrants some explanation? I mention this because LS didn't give clear criteria throughout the video. I mean LS talked about the importance of innovating match-ups, didn't Jaedong innovate the matchup in 2007 when he went 12-0 against Terran, or was he just copying sAviOr's style and applying his great APM to win?

[@DaOtisElevator]

Boxer, sAviOr, Flash, Bisu are mine

[@TheArcticSonata]

shhhh we do not mention sAviOr

[@DjokovicIsOurLordAndSaviour]

Is Brood war still going as an esport? Or are they saying some of these players are still playing having transitioned to SC2?

[@orrino]

Search "AfreecaTV" on KZbin.

[@CrazyBreadWithSauce]

Interesting to hear that at a lower level protoss has an advantage over terran but at higher levels terran is the way to go.

[@pine6193]

who is ''he who shall not be named''?

[@KaizerFaith]

wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/SAviOr

[@Crimmjaw]

Why do they call him that?

[@phakusgnameoos6463]

Now you've gone and done it...

[@KaizerFaith]

Jesua715 He's the IBuyPower of StarCraft. Matchfixing Scandal.

[@MageKirby]

Savior. He got into a huge match fixing scandal and became a big shame in Brood War history.

[@Wwheeles]

Love you ls m8

[@WilkenKear]

I'd say Tokido from Fighting Games is a good comparison with NaDa; not always the best player but consistently a top competitor in many different titles at the same time for many years.

[@Aardbeij]

If you want to get into watching some broodwar, where do you start? Can anyone recommend me some games or a series?

[@clickrush]

There are so many *incredibly* good matches. If you want to go through the history and kind of see the development of the big names and the big shifts in the game then I would go along the lines of (roughly chronological): boxer, nada, oov, savior, bisu, jaeodong, stork, flash, fantasy.

[@Aardbeij]

Lel I forgot that Starcraft has been around for a while. The guy is like 36! Gonna watch some of the matches. Thanks for the advice!

[@MageKirby]

Looking for things in the TeamLiquid website is probably the best for english speakers.

[@PhthaloBlue42]

CholeraSC, NukeTheStars, and violeTAK all have tons of good vods. Nuke and cholera were the greatest casters of bw with tasteless/superdanielman coming in close second imho

[@PhthaloBlue42]

also, the OSL was the most prestigious league to win, but msl and team leagues were also very well respected.

[@ohMovement]

Please do reflections with shox

[@tkadn338]

Hmm what about Jangbi, stork, Nal_Ra, Savior, Xellos, Reach or July?

[@jonahweaver1122]

I love Thoorin's vids, but god damn if the lack of outtro doesn't get me everytime rofl.

[@richardandras9215]

Dam, 1:05:50 what time we living atm, imagine mention NA LCS the same lvl as LPL and LCK as the best :D I guess lol evolved

[@KotaTiGaSmota]

who do they refer to as he who shall not be named?

[@jajapam]

savior, the bonjwa who got banned for matchfixing

[@s41nt_tv10]

THOORIN AND LASTSHADOW MY LIFE, Thank you thooorin, reply to me godfather.

[@MyWorldCloud]

Great video! As a chinese ICCUP B- player once upon a time Players that hugely impacted the game: GRRR Garimto, Boxer, Yellow, Kingdom, Reach, Nada, julyzerg, Nal_ra,iloveoov, Saviour ,Bisu, Stork, Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy Greatest player: Boxer,Nada,iloveoov,Saviour,Flash, (Arguably Jaedong) Highest skilled player until the end of proscene . T: Fantasy since mid-late 2010 (DOMINATED everyone except JangBi , OSL 3-0 flash 3-0 stork ,SPL final defeated flash , defeated jaedong TWICE in 2009 FINAL ,Since 2011 He was #1 rank in KESPA for quite a time . Flash was god and he still was from 2011, fantasy was just better .Great micro - always had great mech micro, had bad MM micro but improved SO much , great in Strategies , chessplayer in TVT, invented fantasy build in TVZ , solid TVP because of his great mech control. etc etc. Why not flash ? just watch every fantasy game since 2011, especially VS FLASH (some of the greatest TVT games ever) and stork (OSL final) Z: Jaedong the best there ever was and never surpassed. ZERO came close, but not as dominating at ALL no need to explain ehh? P: JangBi since late 2011 (HE WAS SO GOOD, NUFF SAID , best skilled player in BW at his peak. as LS said , BISU+STORK, great strats great micro great macro til the proscene , even after the KESPA era. ) beat fantasy again and again and again He was the little brother in samsung Ps ( Anytime->Stork->Jangbi) but became the highest of BW Bisu and Flash were dominating, however since 2011 they were really surpassed. Flash didnt drop off much just fantasy became better than him, Bisu was never to be the same player that won 3 MSL :(( Glad Thorin made this video but Fantasy just deserves more credit :((( i cri everytime

[@MyWorldCloud]

btw theres a KESPA hall of fame actually from 2012

[@MrProtastic98]

Can someon tell me the story of the someon who shall not be named? Why is he called lie that?

[@WARnTEA]

Probably referencing sAviOr, who was apart of a matchfixing scandal.

[@aihne]

LS refers this way sAviOr, one of the best Z players of all time, sentenced to community service and probation for involvement in in 2010 matchfixing scandal.

[@vidwatcher123100]

wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/SAviOr wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Match_Fixing_Scandal

[@funloh]

Funny thing is, LS also doing some shit in Broodwar. www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/63176-lastest-lastshadows-guide-to-map-rigging

[@RecycleMeWild]

As someone who does follow fighting games (and followed Brood War), you guys definitely aren't giving Daigo enough credit. He has been playing the best of the best from the beginning. The Japanese are to fighting games what Koreans are to Starcraft. Nada's career is amazing, but I believe Daigo's is more impressive.

[@LSXYZ9]

I feel that's not entirely true. Koreans dominated Tekken for a long time and Infiltration later rose to fame in SF as well as many other nationalities fielding strong players. Japan has never had a monopoly over a game like Korea has. Even in smashbrothers they're barely the fourth best country, maybe not even.

[@Sapreme]

​ @LS I know its a 3 year old comment, but I think you're wrong because you're looking at daigo's resume starting from the street fighter 4 era. Daigo had been dominating WAY before that, all the way back to SF3, SF2, and darkstalkers for many, many years. His resume in Brood War terms would be if Boxer had the longevity of NaDa (and still going). It's as if you were to say that Justin Wong isn't the greatest marvel vs capcom player of all time, because you're judging him from his marvel vs capcom 3 results. Winning one evo is a pretty big deal, winning two in a row and your among legends. Justin wong won 8 out of 10 Evo championships for marvel vs capcom 2. Four of which in a row, and the two times he didn't win he came in second and fourth. Korean did dominate in Tekken, but thats because Tekken was HUGE in korean, but not really that big anywhere else. It wasn't simply that they were more skilled at fighting games than the japanese. The reason for this is because there was almost no Street Fighter in Korea at the time. The distributing company for Street Fighter 3 in Korea went bankrupt, and namco released Tekken Tag Tournament 1, which bolstered Tekken's popularity even further. When Street Fighter 4 came out (the game that revived the fighting game genre), it was super successful because it already had a huge fanbase built from SF2 and SF3. Korea never had the chance to build up that fanbase, while japan and most other countries never built up a strong tekken community because Street Fighter was more popular and present. Simliar stories for the dominance of other countries in other fighting games (KoF, SNK games for south america due to arcade cabs and cartriges being inexpensive to buy, Capcom vs Marvel games for U.S due to love of Marvel characters, etc). You mentioned in the video that FGC players didn't have training houses, but remember that fighting games did not have online play and originated in arcades. There would be top arcades filled to the brim with top players that played and competed against each other nearly every day. So while it was nowhere like the military-like regiments SC players went through in training houses, it wasn't like japanese players weren't grinding against other top players. I would argue that japan did have a monopoly on fighting games up until a few years after SF4. Japan (and to a lesser extent korea) excelled in fighting games because of the popularity of arcades, and because of the geographic of the country. Players can only improve by playing stronger players, and the only way you could do that was in person at an arcade because there was no online play. Japan had a HUGE advantage in this department because arcades were a huge business, and because the country is so small, traveling isn't that big of an issue. The rest of the world started to catch up when they lost this advantage with the release of online play. Simliarily to how players like Serral, Reynor, Clem, etc caught up to korean SC2 players when training houses weren't a thing anymore.

[@meumeu1511]

'he who shall not be named' is that Savior (one of the players who was caught match-fixing')? RIP I was a fan of his =[

[@financemaster1400]

thanks i had no idea what he was talking about :)

[@Imkohlton]

I dont know who "he who shall not be named" is in BW, someone help?

[@user-tn3qb9rs7g]

MehAPourNewbONRS savior

[@Imkohlton]

That guy who threw a bunch. Okay

[@Imkohlton]

Seems like he got a lesser punishment then most?

[@jamesparker9501]

Last Shadow cheat....?

[@zissou6928]

smart kid

[@DLLM-]

9enius dafuq is this comments

[@haileselassie3781]

flash, bisu, savior, idrajit are mine.

[@1Rook1600]

:( I know the matchfixing was really bad, but if you just talk about the game itself, there's no way savior is not one of those 4.. He deserves that spot more than oov, imo.

[@impulsive1252]

Dorus Catalin In the reflections episode LS said he thinks Savior is the greatest BW player of all time.

[@MaiHead92]

Last Shadow appears once more!

[@orbital1950]

Holy im early Under 1,000 club here! :D

[@tehgeofll6416]

LS DIED FOR THIS

[@ioannisvogiatzis]

He who must not be named?

[@munsuhwang9282]

Ioannis Vogiatzis saviour

[@Winterkingdom1]

SaviOr

[@misterkefir]

BoxeR, NaDa, Jaedong/Bisu, FlaSh

[@hristo.bogdanov]

Classic Thooorin @ 1:11:18 :D

[@Wyxzlol]

Nice beard Thorin

[@RndyDX]

LSSSSS

[@BillyHashbrown]

I like Csgo

[@verybigbrain723]

We all knew thorin never played bw from the moment he said TERRAN wan the most imbalanced race

[@trinhanvu6568]

Newest comment is 1 year ago

[@leach_]

mini seangares

[@kenl2367]

are you two just reading the history of bw off of liquidpedia? lastshadow was a hacking noob. why would you interview and value his opinion of bw?

[@markedone150]

thought it was a girl

[@ilililililil3776]

1:11:20 LOL

[@salwaby]

who's the chick?

[@tektek1100]

Last Shadow StarCraft pro lol if you repeat a lie long enough people end up believing it

[@ckyisyourfuture]

GARIMTO

[@yahYEAT]

lool ls got banned for matchmaking for 4 years too xd

[@Oksproduction]

who the fuck is he who shall not be named

[@Winterkingdom1]

SaviOr

[@aanon4019]

Oksproduction see 55:00 for a rundown on who he was basically a macro Zerg player

[@aanon4019]

He shall not be named bc of match rigging or something idk

[@Azyifed]

He who ShAll not be name is Very IrrespOnsable about Rigging matches. Uncode and you get he who Shall not be named.

[@MultiMakuk]

turns out that you got +1 s (althought only the 1rst sentence counts)

[@ZZZ-dt6mf]

TriHard Cx LastShadow9 LUL LS LUL

[@tiagomota4734]

easly the most entrataining game ever created that had exactly 5 fans outside of korea because it was soo hard to play and so hard to understand beeing a "newbie"...i know im exagerating saying 5 fans but you understand the idea...if you compare with "lesbians"(lol game) bw had exactly 5 fans... thats why they created sc2 an easy game where you can hotkey 1000 units on 1 control and press 1 hotkey to produce 1000 units - awful shit game easy and not fun to watch or play... but it seems that everyone is happy these days , we should all play league of lesbians right?!

[@LSXYZ9]

BW at it's peak was way bigger in S.Korea than LoL has ever been. Let that sink in given how monsterous of a game LoL is to Korea/it's fans.

[@NithianKOE]

So bitter lol

[@スバ友5635]

Hey @LS, what do you think about effort, fantasy, luxury and Xellos. Of course none of these guys were among the best of the best but they've won some big tournaments and I was disappointed that they didn't get any mentions.

[@carson825]

in the video thumbnail LS looked like a lesbian

[@Hellraiser14]

unsubbed

[@svenschukat2958]

Nice female guest

[@GiefReplays]

lol "Daigo is playing Western players". "I don't know anything about fighting games". You don't say.