EU4 Ethical Challenge - No War Declarations, No Coring, No Seizing Land, No Missionaries

[@KTA1sVidsandFacts]

Zoroastrians: Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds. Rooo: Alright bet.

[@arashparthian_112]

The aechemid empire experience

[@Ankhar2332]

ethics seems like a luxury - noone can afford it

[@EuropaUniversalisofficial]

See? EU4 is a very wholesome game with no bad guys.

[@samuelmalaby7498]

This entire concept is so insane, that it ends up looping back to being logical. Good job, I would have eaten my own organs by 1500 out of pure frustration.

[@gent9358]

This is a very unique challenge and your narration of it is also kind of hilarious due to how matter-of-factly it is! Most EU4 KZbinrs tend to focus on prioritizing rapid military expansionism, so seeing a diplomacy game like this is real satisfying!

[@thebritishsloth]

😮

[@joshuasims5421]

This playthrough looks really fun! Not surprised it got slow in the end, that's EUIV for you. But it looks like it led to a really flavorful campaign with a lot of strategy. I tend to blob reflexively and games feel frantic. I think you could play a less strict but similar challenge: no unjustified demands, no generating enough AE to put any tag over 50. So you could slowly expand into tags like Fars, but still need to rely on vassalization, returning cores, etc. I honestly hope that gameplay in EUV is paced more like this. Awesome video!

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah the slower pace on this one let me develop my provinces way more than normal. I didn't really show a building tour but almost every province had a university, courthouse, manufactory, etc. That's a good idea for a run - I'll put it on the list. Thanks!

[@manooxi327]

Would you consider eu5 with the dev diaries the devs trying to slow the game like u said then? 🧐

[@rooosgamingden]

@@manooxi327 Yes I'm definitely going to try EU5. I'll probably do a review and if I enjoy it I'll make EU5 content as well.

[@wiktorwysocki516]

Idea apart (it was great too), but what I really like is you commentary!

[@rooosgamingden]

@@wiktorwysocki516 Thanks!

[@filipsz.8309]

Eu4 but you respect geneva conventions hundreds of years before they happend

[@orestisbe6978]

Coring is ethical. It represents integrating a province into the administration. Especially on provinces of accepted culture and religion, it's ethical

[@rooosgamingden]

That’s fair. I mostly included no coring to make the challenge harder. Ethics wise I think you’re correct.

[@donaldtrumplover2254]

Nah, it would be unfair to the populace since you do not truly know how in favor of integration they are. Just the limits of the game lol.

[@imaginehavingpfp5779]

Coring makes it so you can lower the authonomy, so idk if its truly ethical

[@MyVanir]

@@imaginehavingpfp5779 Going with that logic, the only ethical thing is to have every province at 100% autonomy.

[@kingster14444]

It all depends on how it's done, and given this game, I think it's safe to assume they're not doing it wholesomely

[@spacecalifornian7924]

I've seen peaceful playthoughs before, but they tend to allow coring, sometimes even threaten war. excellent job, subbed.

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks! Wanted to make it as interesting as possible, and coring is such a key part of the game I wanted to see what it would be like. I've never had so much admin mana.

[@theCHEATER141]

I'm halfway through the video, this feels like we're in the POV of the AI and the Ottomans is the player.

[@m1ke244]

Heyyy!! I need you to go to the end of the Napoleonic era! Video is too good. I need more!

[@rooosgamingden]

@@m1ke244 Thanks, I have some other ideas I'm working on so this definitely won't be the last.

[@BkennyP]

Great challenge idea, really shows off the unique replayability imo and honestly I don't think a lot of players could handle the slower pace and would turn it in a WC, it was crazy seeing you slowly restore Georgia

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks, I’d be lying if I said I was never tempted to clean up the borders. But the rules are the rules!

[@Otterpawp]

I can see this being boring in the back half as you said but you made it extremely entertaining to watch. I was super hoping for an 1821 playthrough but I can understand that it would be more of the same but less and slower. Keep making eu4 content. Always nice to see a new content with a fresh pair of eyes.

[@rooosgamingden]

Glad you enjoyed it! Depending on the run usually 1821 is not in the cards unless there's something specific I'm still trying to do. But I'll definitely have more EU content in the future.

[@Chris-nq9nb]

This was one of the most interesting EU4 videos I've seen in a while. I like how much of the game you show as well. Have subscribed!

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks and welcome!

[@odun_olu]

Really nice concept and a really nice, relaxing video. Good job man, loved it.

[@rooosgamingden]

@@odun_olu Thanks!

[@oliviaconstanzewoodward-wh7361]

This was a really cool video idea, and you have a very calm way of presenting things! Definitely going to subscribe.

[@rooosgamingden]

@@oliviaconstanzewoodward-wh7361 Thanks and welcome!

[@merrittsmith2304]

Really enjoyed your style of commentary over the gameplay, it made me more invested in the video’s progression!

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks!

[@triploshadow]

Keep doing videos man the rp and seriousness is just chef's kiss.

[@rooosgamingden]

Will do, glad you like them!

[@board-qu9iu]

Great seeing a new channels do EU4. I hope you end up doing more EU4 especially with the different vibe you give off

[@AnoNymous-lh7qm]

How come you only have this less subscribers? I really enjoyed your style of commentary and at least as an edited video that was awesome to watch. Subbed.

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks, I just started making videos fairly recently. Appreciate the kind words, and welcome!

[@michael120.]

dont stop making eu4 videos your commentary and gameplay are better than most dudes in this line of content

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks!

[@oneiropompos]

This reminds me of the #conducts that you see in other very deep games Nethack. You've answered a question I've had bouncing around my head for over a decade.

[@kasperjakobsen6153]

I liked this video, keep it up :)

[@rooosgamingden]

@@kasperjakobsen6153 Thanks!

[@gerryscholz323]

Very well done. Amazing job, lot of fun to watch

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

[@EmperorNefarious1]

I would argue seizing land from the estates is ethical.

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah, that's fair. I wanted a bit of extra challenge but not seizing didn't really affect the game that much.

[@teronzer3576]

FYI someone even managed to almost do WC this way as Ming.

[@rooosgamingden]

@@teronzer3576 I could see that. I don't have the patience for a WC, particularly like this, but I appreciate people who do.

[@RoyalFusilier]

Now that's what I call having the Mandate of Heaven.

[@shef8764]

im so fucked up i thought the title said ethnic cleansing and was instantly intrigued

[@ElevenTwentyThreePostMeridiem]

Great video hope you do more eu4 stuff

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks, I have a few more ideas I'm working on!

[@malchelo-7627]

Interesting concept. I think it'd work well with the Mamluks. Tons of smaller nations to diplo vasselize.

[@CeriTsujimura]

Commentary fits eu4 gameplay far too well^^

[@rooosgamingden]

I don't know if that's a compliment, but I'll take it!

[@CeriTsujimura]

@@rooosgamingden definitely a complement lmao

[@RedneckJoe]

It was a REALLY cool game. Much different from what I would think. I guess the only complain I have is that you never became defender of the faith. Maybe this would drag you more often into wars, which would be good, since you were pretty close to every other zoroastrian country. That would be a great strategy as Hussite Bohemia, while converting close by HRE countries. Other than that, amazing game! You definitely should make more EU4 games. There is a fairly big fan base community that consumes a LOT of content. Just take a peak at the kind of popularity guys like Red Hawk, Ludi, Laith and the other guys achieved lately. Your video has a nice pace, with a well balanced proportion between local battles and smart fast forward sessions. You should star focusing on popular nations, such as Byzantium, France, Castille, Prussia and then start building up your own marketing strategy. A good thing to do is to auto impose risky limitations (such as this one), hardcore goals or tough scenarios to escape for. I wish you a great career as a KZbinr! Cheers.

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah, I could have done Defender of the Faith. Typically anybody I was inviting to Zoroastrianism was also getting allied or guaranteed with the intent of peaceful vassalization, but being Defender of the Faith could have added some flavor. I definitely plan to make more EU4 videos - I enjoyed this one and to be honest it's been a lot more popular than I expected. Thanks for the feedback and kind wishes!

[@RedneckJoe]

@@rooosgamingden Cool! EU4 has a VERY loyal and thirsty fanbase. Specially if you bring fun and innovative or unnusual concepts, such as this one. You have plenty of space to grow. Good luck, my friend!

[@ghostyghost8318]

Seems like a really cool campaign idea, I think it would be alot better with mods that tweak the ai aggression to be higher so there is less sitting around though

[@rooosgamingden]

I don’t usually play with mods but that’s not a bad idea for a run like this one. Thanks for the comment!

[@axelrodriguez5425]

This was so fascinating. Please finish the game out!

[@Gremph]

Very cool run idea, i think this run could also work with the mamluks

[@AbubekirYalcin14]

Great video. The Ottomans would definitely be the perfect country for this challenge.

[@rooosgamingden]

I thought about starting as a major but I didn't want to make it too easy. But that would definitely still be an interesting game.

[@AbubekirYalcin14]

@@rooosgamingden I would definitely watch that video if you made it.

[@CSDragon]

Unironically North American natives might be the best for this. Using the Federation mechanic, you can chain federations and colonization (using Native Assimilation of course for ethics purposes)

[@rooosgamingden]

I wish paradox had done some more work on Native American tribes. Aztec/Maya/Inca are a lot of fun with WoC but the North American tribes feel dated and are hard for me to get into.

[@emanuelneagu14]

that's such a strange concept, you're releasing all the land you get in peace deals only to diplo annex it later, and you're not declaring wars but you're offering alliance to any part of any war around you just so you can get some land in return. Good stuff though

[@joe-9718]

Such a quality video for someone with 158 subs. Insane. Have another.

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks!

[@jaksongraham9516]

Love to see more

[@rooosgamingden]

@@jaksongraham9516 Will do!

[@juans213]

Almost every action in this game is like a human rights violation 👍

[@Ankhar2332]

@@juans213 violation of human rights to kill, pillage and rape

[@amininja]

so goddamn good

[@zeman429]

please keep making EU4 Content!!

[@rooosgamingden]

Thanks, I plan to :)

[@zeman429]

@@rooosgamingden 😁😁😁😁😁

[@thatonehistoryguy9804]

It’s a great vid

[@rooosgamingden]

@@thatonehistoryguy9804 Thanks!

[@manooxi327]

Choosing Persia for this run is fantastic considering the empire's history of tolerance (except the conquering part but we take what we get 😅)

[@viniciusyugulis7278]

You should've picked the Mamluks, they have tons of missions to play tall in arid regions, early suez, colonization, etc...

[@rooosgamingden]

They do have a good mission tree but I didn't want to make this challenge too easy. I thought picking Ajam was already borderline too powerful. Thanks for the comment!

[@kursataydn5758]

Good content bro i’m looking for different contents from you

[@rooosgamingden]

Glad you liked it, I've got a few more ideas in the works.

[@kaiiv-n4x]

Sooo fine idea for playtrough! I will try this myself. You just got new subscriber. On what difficulty did you play? Normal or very hard?

[@rooosgamingden]

@@kaiiv-n4x Just normal difficulty, but it's definitely doable on VH depending on who you start as.

[@shashwatsinha2704]

Wonderful

[@KP-ek7qu]

Super fun idea. Im wondering what other countries would be the best for this kind of play

[@filipsz.8309]

Honestly - wouldnt it be ethical to declare war to return cores of your or your vassals culture? I mean, its basically saving them from occupation

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah, that's a fair point. There's also the question of whether it's ethical to join an ally's war of aggression. Mostly I just needed a name for the challenge :)

[@notme8232]

Or to support rebels in neighboring countries, and then declare to enforce their demands.

[@canavarkatili6157]

Bro tried to became humane and just

[@yuri0568]

More eu4 please! 🙏

[@rooosgamingden]

@@yuri0568 Working on it :)

[@jackwish420]

the ottoman AI finally knows how the player feels 😢

[@richardcarlstedt3701]

I think you make great vids, but I just can't get over the Aq Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu abbreviations

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

If you had went to the enddate, what ideas would you have taken? Would you have gone revolutionary or absolutist? How would Persia look going into the Victorian Era in your mind here?

[@rooosgamingden]

I think the next group would have been another mil idea: probably divine or offensive. After that maybe infrastructure to close it out. I wish I had done a better job showing it at the end of the video but the economy was making so much money I didn't need econ or trade or anything like that (total dev when I stopped was around 1900). Re: Revolutionary or Absolutism, I'm not sure. I was running so many estate privileges that my absolutism cap was just 15. I usually call games around 1650-1700 - I've typically achieved everything I wanted to, and the early to mid game is my favorite part of EU4. As far as what it would look like going forward, I'm picturing an advanced, modern economy, on par with Western Europe. Because the challenge slowed expansion so much, I was able to develop and build internally a lot more than usual. Almost every province was 20+ dev, with universities, courthouses, manufactories, etc.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@rooosgamingden Maybe try playing start dates that are a lot later so you can experience those endgame mechanics more? If you ported this over to victoria 2 or 3, what do you imagine politically would have gone down?

[@rooosgamingden]

@@AbstractTraitorHero I actually haven't played the Victoria games so I couldn't really say.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

​@@rooosgamingden Well, Socialist Vanguard state? Council Republic? Parliamentarian Republic? Monarchy still or do you think it would have changed?

[@0karin_]

i think it was cool

[@wintermute5974]

Interesting idea for a campaign. You could probably have stretched it out a little further by going exploration or expansion, setting up some colonies in Indonesia for borders and then diplo-vassalizing the the countries in the region.

[@rooosgamingden]

That's true. I had expansion options in India as well, but I was ready to call it. The early game is the most fun part of EU4 for me; the late game can be a bit of a slog.

[@rod9829]

I think the no coring is too severe a malice, but very good game!

[@wersabwersab6923]

I think it makes the game more interesting and slower, the more slower the less mistakes you can make

[@ale-xsantos1078]

Love the challenge Regarding the ethics I dont think sending missionaries is a bad thing, I mean they have a bad rep because of colonialism but would preachers from a religion near extinction be bad? Would buddhists nowadays? Or people who preach against religions for that matter I personally think its fine so long you arent using them as the frontline for the aforementioned colonialism and trying to force conversion, people should be allowed to hear what others have to say and choose their beliefs

[@viniciusyugulis7278]

Missionaries in this game mean force converters

[@ale-xsantos1078]

@@viniciusyugulis7278 Oh! Then yeah that makes sense

[@Qwerka]

I read that as “ethnical” 💀

[@carltonleboss]

A very strange way to play EU4. You did very well despite the restrictions.

[@rooosgamingden]

Thank you!

[@muratonuryilmaz5385]

Would like to see this in HRE

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah that could be interesting - I'll add it to my list

[@JoeZombie-nq7qj]

Brilliant videos, both this and the Trebizond one! In cases like Soran, would it maybe not even have been more "optimal" to leave them as an independent OPM via Return Province, rather than release like a quarter of your country that's already cored just to get that one last province? Re-integrating lands over and over again like this always looks super painful.

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah that probably would have been more optimal, but I was wanting to clean up the borders as much as possible. Very little about this run was done optimally :)

[@baden271]

>Ethical Challenge >Within 3 years goes to war and sends an army of 24.000 to kill 16.000 men and 4.000 horses

[@wolframsteindl2712]

So this is basically the way America has been doing empire since WW1.

[@Schwizinberg]

Did you guys also noticed that so many nations take admin, quality and quantity ideas in the beginning most of the time? Ive seen colonizers take like exploration and afterwards quantity and quality. Like every single nation. Some take plutocratic others aristocratic but most of the time its admin, quality and quantity. Sometimes in different order

[@rooosgamingden]

@@Schwizinberg Anybody I have to fight ends up going Quantity and Quality. My allies tend to go Maritime/Infrastructure. Mostly joking, but yes I do see quality and quantity all the time. It's especially gross on the Ottomans, because with quantity they can field like 150k troops in 1550.

[@mugen7819]

I'm confused why coring a province would be unethical.

[@rooosgamingden]

I mostly included no coring to make the challenge harder. I wanted to get away from normal expansionist gameplay as much as possible. Ethics-wise I think you're right though.

[@BigPurpleCarrot]

It'd be good if you had an end goal in mind. Like becoming a great power or something, makes it more engaging to watch.

[@diegoyqulki]

Eu4 but no one country could raise army?

[@spiderbitesandvampirevenom]

ok maybe i need to try this...

[@Nosirrbro]

Strongly disagree with the idea that revoking land from estates is unethical from my personal moral perspective (to me an ethical run would mean doing a mad rush to revoking ALL their land lol, and using as many of those funds as possible for infrastructure and development that would benefit local populations), but otherwise very cool idea I’ve often tried to do something kinda like this but instead like, playing in the new world and only allowing myself to attack colonial nations etc. which isn’t nearly as restrictive as this challenge lol

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah, that's fair. The ethics of several aspects of this are questionable - for example, is it ethical to join an ally's offensive war? Mostly I just needed a good name for the challenge. Not seizing in particular didn't really have much of an impact outside of slowing down the early game a bit. Thanks for the comment.

[@Nosirrbro]

@@rooosgamingdenI might be the only person who would want it but I would honestly love more videos with this same idea for other countries or similar ideas

[@rooosgamingden]

Yeah I might try to do this or something similar with an even smaller country. I felt like Ajam might be borderline a bit too strong.

[@ale-xsantos1078]

I partially disagree I think revoking it from people who are clearly mistreating their subjects is righteous, but taking it from those who do fulfil their social functions and are accepted by those who live in their lands as the legitimate authority is not much different from invading a state accepted by it's citizens to impose what you think is a more efficient system, its imperialism all the same You could argue its an improvement still, but then it falls on how much colonizing - wheter other nations or your own subjects - is acceptable for some material gain, and if all confiscation is moral then you might as well also say "what the romans have done for us"

[@sirmount2636]

@@rooosgamingdenEthical Theodoro would be GREAT.

[@rod9829]

Algorithm

[@MK-ev5rz]

15:15 Ethical backstab :D

[@oofoof4875]

i feel like every one of these rooo videos i've watched has had a giant songhai in it, what's the deal with songhai? good ideas? missions? free cores?

[@KayKusoden]

It was very fun to watch, although I don't watch any eu4 content. For a short period I've tried to learn the game after 1k hour on both vic3 and ck3. but the UI is sooo bad in eu4 I just can't keep playing it. Could you please do a Ardabil into Eranshahr proper borders with Zoroastrian faith run?

[@rooosgamingden]

@@KayKusoden I think I've done that exact run off camera but I might be able to do some kind of twist on it in the future. Thanks for the comment!

[@Nasai1]

Should 0 AE Byzantium challenge? (Diplo vassalize into pronoias?)

[@rooosgamingden]

Interesting idea, I’ll add it to the list!

[@elisfsharri]

Did you support rebels though?

[@rooosgamingden]

I didn’t but that’s not a bad idea. I wouldn’t be able to declare war in support, but if the country was weak enough it’s possible the rebels could succeed on their own.

[@elisfsharri]

@@rooosgamingden if its weak or if you isolate the area (even though it's difficult to isolate without being the war leader). Do you get power projection though (if it's your rival)?

[@BeStOHoLd]

I think this would have been better if you were able to play in a Victoria 3 game style, where most of the game is just developing your country and playing the diplomatic game more than just wars

[@rooosgamingden]

That would definitely be in the spirit of the challenge, but peaceful dev in EU4 isn’t very deep and I think I (and viewers) would get bored pretty quickly. Still, I’ll see if I can think of a way to make it interesting. Thanks for the comment!

[@viorp5267]

Ez, just play Ming or a free City.

[@rooosgamingden]

@@viorp5267 True, but where's the challenge in that? :)

[@stephenbernard3003]

I think you shouldn’t have gone zoro and instead been Sunni defender of the faith. Then take a bunch of loans. That would convince the AI you wouldn’t answer the call to arms and you could get more wars.

[@YC-bk3fl]

How did Ottos get to Brazil?

[@rooosgamingden]

I think they randomly went expansion ideas, managed to get a colony in Brazil, and then took a few more off Portugal as part of a war. It wasn’t a huge colonial nation but still pretty funny.

[@TS5Winners]

Did... did you just say Ottoman... Brazil?

[@Drugio24]

how do you get so good economy?

[@rooosgamingden]

Persia trade node + missions + workshops/manufactories in every province.

Why not end in 1821?

[@rooosgamingden]

I find the early and mid game to be the most interesting in EU4. Late game can kind of turn into a slog, and usually I've achieved whatever I was looking to do by around 1650-1700.

@@rooosgamingden Well, in this case I think 1821 would be better, since you could see how far could you get with those rules only.

[@LinoDuszynski]

Good campaign! However, sending your people to die in battle is ethically questionable.

[@rallestein]

add some music

[@rooosgamingden]

Good idea, I'll look into that for the next one.

[@piotr_jurkiewicz]

Armenia best naatiuon . turk uno reverse !

[@HelsenbergFan]

man istanbul is always taken by someone else before the ottomans take it in ur vids

[@relix7373]

Don't really see why missionaries or culture conversion are inherently unethical.

[@JaCrispy3060]

"Ethical" by 2024 neo liberal standards lol

[@GabrielElias3.16]

goodjob

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

Just so you know, you could have liberated countries in peace deals and use the liberated relations modifiers to acquire them as subjects if they are under 200 development iirc So if your first idea group was Integration you could have snowballed by subjugating everything and feeding subjects on your frontier like crazy.

[@rooosgamingden]

It's a good idea but I was never war leader so I always just had to take the AI peace deals. I think only the war leader gets the buff with released nations.