Eurovision 2024: The Aftermath & The Disrepute + Joost Klein vs The EBU ★ Joint Slay Podcast Ep. 36

[@barghast]

I saw some of the videos of the artists coming offstage on Instagram and some of the artists looked like they weren't expecting a camera. I felt particularly strange about the one of Dons as he'd been crying from the emotion of the moment. We just don't need to see that time as an audience. It's too invasive and the artists have a right to privacy in those moments.

[@pas76]

The problem in this was that the EBU never acted to the allegations from different deligations that they where harassed by Israel deligation.

[@metalvisionsongcontest7055]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that the EBU is located in Switzerland… now I already see next year’s controversies coming… 😅

[@erinnadia0409]

It's going to be a hot mess that I will miss, I'll return for 2026 😅

[@EmoBearRights]

You have a point that putting the Netherlands on so early and before Eden seemed like a provative Dutch nerf.

[@Hana9916]

But they put Ukraine, another favoirite, second...

[@EmoBearRights]

@@Hana9916 I don't think they wanted them to win either. Last time it caused a lot of problems although thank you Ukraine for enabling us in the UK to host and giving us almost full marks so helping us come second.

[@garryd7748]

When wondering why there appears to be a double standard with the Israeli delegation…. Maybe the major naming rights sponsor being an Israeli company has something to do with it? Maybe it’s just money talking?

[@alebe7224]

Maybe it’s just decency? Why would anyone wanna exclude a country that’s just defending itself

[@erinnadia0409]

Yeah Moroccan oil needs to go!

[@marsukarhu9477]

Money talking yet again. They should both be kicked out.

[@GTChris]

​@@alebe7224Look up the definition of defending. It might surprise you that you'll find no mention of indiscriminately bombing, shooting and starving thousands of innocent children. I think you're more likely to find those under the words "revenge" and "collective punishment".

[@Karolina-wp4sd]

@@alebe7224 I don’t think harassing other contestants is defending themselves.

[@Themanyfacesofego]

Joost Klein has entered the British Charts at number 37. I hope people will support him by buying the single. What happened was a horrible injustice. Imagine rehearsing for months, travellling to Sweden, meeting the press and fans...and then being treated like that.

[@jordanwilson6490]

Y’all act like he was blameless… obviously him threatening a camerawoman is something to be blamed for

[@ellenverbunt9224]

@@jordanwilson6490 The lawyer says that Klein pushed a photographer's camera away, but that the artist denies having threatened this person. According to the lawyer, the police are still investigating.

[@marcelrenes2435]

​@@jordanwilson6490 We still don't know what he exactly did. Let's just wait for the evidence. To be disqualified, he must have done something terrible. No country has ever before been disqualified in the 67 years of the contest. And the EBU did not only disqualify Joost, the disqualified a whole COUNTRY! And I wonder why the EBU explicitly said it was a FEMALE employee. So if it was a man, it would have been different? It's stinks.

[@19932603A]

As a huge fan of Eurovision, IF the EBU isn't purged of these people with these terrible decisions, double standards and Martin being sacked, I am completely fine with Switzerland hosting the last Eurovision ever.

[@sonasche]

Ok, guys, The European Flag reprensents all europeans, the EU later used this to represent the EU also. But the 12 star flag is the flag of all europeans.,

[@abic752]

Nemo had also not gone to the flag parade. They were one of the people being filmed by the Israeli delegation. They went to complain to the EBU alongside bambie and marina

[@shlomomarkman6374]

Everyone is filming everyone else in there so the EBU will do nothing about that, it's totally overblown. The flag parade would have been problematic for Nemo because flag rules are enforced more rigourously this year. Only ESC country flags and the basic rainbow flag were allowed. Showing a forbidden flag during the flag parade in the final could cause heavy fines to the broadcaster at the minimum. Even after the final had Croatia won Switzerland would have been fined for the non-binary flag. Ukraine was fined for the "Free Azovstal" shirts and the Israeli presenter had to remove the yellow ribbon before going on air to prevent issues.

[@hellybelly5481]

It all happend just after his performance at the semi-final and before the press conference on Thursday

[@erinnadia0409]

Besa is so unhinged in the best way ever on social media! I love her so much! Queen behaviour ❤

[@hellybelly5481]

At the flag parade rehearsal, just before his DQ he made a triangle sign with his fingers. It’s a sign of unsafety. Normally he always makes the🫶sign.

[@marcelrenes2435]

Also in Europe you're innocent until proven guilty. The EBU made a terrible mistake here. And a whole country is paying the price... To be disqualified, he must have done something terrible. It has never happened before in the 67 years of the Songcontest. 😢

[@ESCedi]

I've never felt so happy and sad about Eurovision at the same time... I'm praying for a better future and that esc will also get on the right track again cause this mess wasn't it...

[@nestorjr.poltic825]

just my two cents: i think it's inaccurate to call the camerawoman an employee of the EBU. from what i read, technical personnel for the contest is usually handled by the host broadcaster (either in-house or hired professionals), so the suggestion that the EBU is doing this to save one of their own doesn't really make sense. however, it does make it a lot more confusing as to why the EBU seems so intent on protecting her.

[@espotpod]

Whether she works for EBU or SVT seems more relevant than her gender so I do wonder why they won’t say

[@kelekele7882]

I decided to only watch newsite live update, I was so off-put with this year. What infuriates me is how EBU statements drip with contempt to the artists vs the staff. Joost should not have raised his fist, but why was he filmed forcibly and also sneakily by IS'L delegation? The mean-spirited ignorance towards Bambi etc. The hypocrisy, the contempt of EBU. Shout out to Poland's dancing Saruman ❤️

[@jippye4917]

eek I feel so famous being mentioned 😭 Have to say I’ve been a quiet viewer for so long but and this podcast I just loved so much I had to sub! Keep Slaying my fav Europeans 🇮🇪 ❤ 🇵🇱

[@espotpod]

🫶

[@theomacer3094]

C'mon, guys, it wasn't that bad. Loreen was great, and I really liked Sudden Lights' song. ....ah, I'm thinking of last year again. Dang it.

[@yarimaevers824]

Europapa ❤❤❤❤ mi numero 1 El verdadero ganador Joost klein

[@metalvisionsongcontest7055]

What you criticise about what happened to Joost here is unfortunately just Cancel Culture in action again (deplatforming, erasing him from photos etc., everything to avoid “guilt by association”). To people who experienced it earlier, this is nothing new. In the Eurovision core audience, meanwhile, there are undoubtedly still quite a few people who maintain that Cancel Culture did not exist.

[@zanazaklina1]

I feel like the Netherlands were on purpose "disqualified", because it was standing good with the public votes, EBU was just afraid that the points would be divided and Israël would have had overall the biggest points from the public and be the winner, that is also what EBU did not want, ..so Joost Klein's points went to Croatia (for me the real winner!), Ukraine,, Greece, Ireland...and so one! Think about it

[@jordanwilson6490]

Not really. The juries marked israel so low and switzerland so high it would be hard for israel to overtake them to win they’d need probably 400 televote points and even then Nemo would only need 90 and still win

[@EmoBearRights]

I still wonder if the person in question was Jewish. The Israeli delegation seemed very happy Joost got DQed. The Karen in question wouldn't need to be officially affiliated with Israel to be sympathetic to them or she could just a Karen. Maybe she's not but she's giving off Karen vibes.

[@metalvisionsongcontest7055]

Eurovision followed a similar trajectory as the TV show Glee over the course of its seasons in recent years: When the group of marginalised sympathetic underdogs everyone once rooted for have a significant share of them turn into self-absorbed divas (looking at “Toy”, “Je me casse” etc.), they attract criticism, up to the point of hate, that they used to not get just a few years earlier. People overlook this, though, because narcissists are great at framing themselves as victims, and double down on that narrative as soon as the anticipated criticism arrives. Luckily, Nemo represents a move away from that attitude. They were a much more sympathetic winner again. “The Code” is an example of how to do a woke song right. “Toy”, and everything that followed in its wake, was intentionally divisive. (I also wonder how many of Israel’s current critics were cheering for “Toy” just a few years ago…)

[@simonevo9743]

Glee mentioned 👀

[@EmoBearRights]

I like Toy - it's a good song with a good message but Israel is now way out of line and needs to go. I don't think that these are contradictory statements but I do get people who feel differently.

[@metalvisionsongcontest7055]

@@EmoBearRights Toy was never about the message. As far as I recall, the composer admitted he wrote it as a tactical move, to jump on the MeToo train. Basically just what Germany did with Sister, except for Doron Medalie, it worked.

[@missk1942]

What is your stance on the War? Watching in Ireland

[@Eurovision-OLD]

This is kind of the problem. Not going, and then saying everything was terrible? I had the most wonderful time in Malmö. Yup, there are still life-long fans who know in the end it's just an entertainment show. And also know a lot about Eurovision and tv production. Now, how would you feel if your employer would just let an incident like what happened with Joost pass? Wouldn't you care about safety in your workplace? Are your opinions on the Swedish judicial system really relevant anyway, as the US doesn't even come in the Top #10 and Sweden is #1? And as for delegations, of course there will always be assholes behind the scenes, but that's not actually illegal, right? Also, do you really think the Israeli delegations or 1973 of 1983, or even the German delegation from 1970 had a nice time? Of course not.

[@marcelrenes2435]

What about Joost his safety?

[@Eurovision-OLD]

@marcelrenes2435 It's a major event. I don't have the answers. He was safe though in terms of security.

[@marcelrenes2435]

@@Eurovision-OLD Well, we just have to wait for the evidence. This will take a few months I guess. The Swedish police spokeswoman said it was nothing serious. By that she ment no criminal case. It's now a civil case. Standard procedure in Sweden.

[@Wamubodo]

Dear Maxxy and Renata, I'm still confused after almost a week. I think the biggest live show on earth is captured by our queer community and we should realize that. And we had a political statement also. By ignoring Israel. This should not be ignored. Everybody expects a safe space but life isn't like that. You'll get hate or worse. Especially online. We've created this magical world of ESC but in our own bubble. Everybody loves everybody. I'm part of it and I saw it in the green room. But this is our narrative. And some of us do not understand this or even disagree. Do we care about Gaza? Yes! Do we care Nemo is non binary? No! But other people do.

[@productjoe4069]

Karl Popper, in his famous defence of liberal democracy, said that the only thing a liberal should not tolerate is intolerance. Whether or not you agree with liberal democracy, I think it is pretty clear that any system that treats absolutely all views as morally equivalent is going to self-contradict. Your comment can be interpreted as drawing a moral equivalence between defending alleged war crimes and expressing one's non-binary identity. Regardless of your position on whether Israel's actions are illegal or immoral, that seems like a rather extreme position of moral relativity to take.

[@metalvisionsongcontest7055]

German Eurovision PhD Irving Wolter, who is gay himself, for all I know, recently opposed this idea of Eurovision becoming, quote, “a queer niche event”, and accused both the EBU and SVT of trying to turn it into one. If that happens, it’s going to turn into even more of a bubble over the years, more and more disconnected from reality. Instead, Irving Wolter would prefer for it to remain a community for everyone, where queer people will obviously feel welcome and accepted - but where queerness isn’t front and centre at every moment. For this reason, he criticised performances such as Olly Alexander’s, arguing that he, in turn, wouldn’t want to have overly sexualised straight performances shoved in his face at every point either. (Where’s the line for that? Well, going by votes received, Chanel was fine - Albania’s “Sekret” was too much. 😉)

[@Wamubodo]

@@metalvisionsongcontest7055 Thank you for explaining. I'm gay myself but I realize this a 'queer niche event' but this is the biggest live event in the world. So expect hate and especially online. And have to accept that ESC isn't a safe space anymore. But more in a sarcastic way. We really have to look eachother in the eyes. We, as a queer community, should really think about our goals. Being gay or transgender is a different story. Being non-binary has nothing to do with sexuality. It's all combined in ESC. But it isn't Europride.

[@metalvisionsongcontest7055]

@@Wamubodo In some sense, Eurovision has tried to turn itself into a “safe space” via self-selection: The countries who tended to be the most offended by openly queer performances are no longer participating (Turkey, Russia, and Hungary). I was a little surprised by Azerbaijan’s 12 jury points for Switzerland this year, but perhaps that’s just marketing. (Remember that line in Efendi’s 2020 song “Cleopatra” about being “straight, or gay, or in between”, which most people realised was just a facade to cover up the actual state of LGBT rights in Azerbaijan for the Eurovision audience.) Side note: I haven’t seen any Eurovision performer yet who openly markets their song based on their asexuality. 😅 I mean, I’m not that surprised - I don’t really see the connection between asexuals and the more “flamboyant” side of the queer community to begin with (Olly Alexander’s performance this year was about as far removed from asexuality as possible). Nevertheless, it’s a fact that some asexuals associate themselves with the queer community, so I guess it’s just a matter of time until somebody puts this front and centre at Eurovision… for better or for worse.

[@pas76]

She was filming with a phone not a real camera.

[@pgScorpio]

all rumors, not fact!

[@sandracosta29]

Just a detail: semite is an ethnicity. Palestinians are ALSO semites, so this term is stupid as hell. Most of the jews living in Israel are Ashkenazi Jews. They are a caucasian tribe of jews that came from eastern Europe, which is why they look a lot like the Ukrainian people, for example. And then there's the Sephardite Jews (Spain and Portugal), the Ethiopian jews (one of the oldest jewish tribes on the planet), the Polish jews, and on and on. Call it "anti-jew" or "anti-Israel", you're being far more accurate, this way.