EV charging in winter: how fast does IONIQ 5 charge?

[@Danne89]

Too many comments so this is probably already mentioned, but if you turn off hvac in the car while charging it will heat/cool the battery faster. It's programmed to prioritize cabin before battery in Hyundai/Kia. Still slow though. Can't wait for the update! I'm also a proud owner of IONIQ 5 in Digital Teal-Green. :)

[@MrEV]

The heating was off in the cabin, yes. Congratulations on a great car (and colour!)

[@HerrGrille]

Also owner of a Ioniq 5 in digital teal But the HVAC makes no difference at all when it comes to charging for me. Tested it several times in the last couple of months. Only trick that helped was driving for around 140km faster than 170km/h. That heated the battery enough to charge with the promised speed. However, you will face a new thermic issue. One component of the drive train will overheat if you are hammering it too much and will cut your power. Way too go Hyundai

[@espencapable]

Also experienced the same with the EV6. My Model Y on the other hand, in -32 celsius in Finland, went straight to 180kw at 12% SOC, and it started preheating the battery one hour before arrival. I hope Kia/Hyundai dials this in. Tesla also doesnt use a battery heater, but uses the front motor to send additional heat into the battery. Neat design.

[@roygardiner4002]

Classic Model S Tesla certainly do have a battery heater (and no front motor!) if you select your Supercharger pre-conditioning of the battery is instigated if temps are too low.

[@jacktyler7599]

I've missed seeing your videos more often, Andrew. You peel the EV technology onion quite well and this one is a good example. Best wishes to the family in this new year.

[@electric-rideshare]

I miss your wife Andrew..and ummm yeah you too :grin:

[@MrEV]

Thanks so much, Jack!

[@MrEV]

Like Terminator, she'll be back...

[@guiseppehammer]

Andrew, this is really good hands-on research in the real world! I appreciate the charging meter and time from IONITY you displayed the whole video. I am a firm believer that every single EV sold around the world should have to display the charge cycle graph of charge rate Kw right on the side window next to the price + features sticker. Like you, I do wonder what benefit or difference the WINTER mode is actually making.

[@arvav8or]

Exactly the same charging profile on the Kia EV6. With OAT of +9 Deg C, 40% to 90 % on ionity took 37 mins with max charge reached of 130 kW at mid point.

[@ErikvanLennep]

Hi andrew, I always watch your video's and find them very informative. I drive a kia e-niro and i think the Ioniq 5 and kia EV6 behave the same way as the Niro does. For coldgating you have to look at the MIN battery temperature. there are 4 levels of coldgating: 1. below 5 degrees -> very slow (niro charges at 22kw) 2. between 5 and 15 degrees -> slow (niro charges at 42kw) 3. between 15 and 25 degrees -> bit faster (niro charges at 54kw) 4. above 25 degrees -> fast charge (niro charges at 74kw) Unfortunatly at the moment we cannot do any pre-heating the battery by satnav or by a manual button. Although a petition has started to get this up and running For long trips in the Niro during low temperature (around 4 degrees): The first charge is very long (over 1 hour) but after that the car will try to keep the heat in the battery a bit as long as you are driving highway speeds (100+km/h) due to the generation of the heat at these speeds. The wintermode as far as i watched from a Kona ev owner, does not do a lot unless you are in extreme winter conditions (below 15 degrees). For normal winter conditions (i live in the netherlands) the wintermode has unfortunately no effect.

[@MrEV]

That's great - thanks so much, Erik. I regret not doing more tests in the e-Niro when I had it.

[@ErikvanLennep]

That is okay, you did a lot of tests and i always liked the way you did your videos.

[@lknight5579]

Just to add to this, Bjørn Nyland showed the same, you need >25 min battery temp to hit the peaks.

[@cittapolyglotta7414]

Whatever the content of this video (will watch later) - glad to see you’re back! You were missed 😉

[@jasonblair4057]

I thinks manufactures should include a button or option on the screen to heat the battery for charging. This will put the user in control and you can get better charging if you did not navigate to a charger. Once a good real world test for people to use as we move into the ev world. The EV6 is still at the top of my list when my current lease ends.

[@roygardiner4002]

Would also save time/money !!

[@BioniqBob]

Your wish in 2025

[@rogerford30]

Nice to see you back Andrew ,Great video 👍👍

[@johniooi3954]

30 mins charge time. Just right for a coffee & bun. EV driving is the right way of driving. Decent breaks to prevent tiredness. Like you said. 1st world problem, as people need to stop comparing EV's to their ICE.

[@ScrapKing73]

Bjorn worked out a charging strategy where he turned the HVAC on and off strategically, to keep the battery pack in the sweet spot. Too low it shows down, and too high it slows down. He arrives at the charging station with the cabin at the temperature he wants (as the car’s double-pane glass helps keep it there). IIRC he turns off the HVAC once he reaches the desired minimum temp, so that the cooling system is entirely devoted to cooling the battery during fast charging as it continues to rise. But check his videos on the subject to double-check me on exactly what his strategy was.

[@markharrison4808]

I have an EV6 with the same speed/winter charging slowness. I know the EV6 and the Ioniq 5 are technically very similar. I found the below on an EV6 forum that ties up with your test and the comments on min battery temp as the key limiter for charge speed. I've used carscanner to monitor min battery temp and it seems to match your tests, other youtube tests and with the below >> Under +15°C, the battery will continue to heat up to +15°C while charging. Up to +25°C the battery is only going to be heated through the store. From +25°C the full charging load will be allowed for the current charging level, so approx. between 20% and 55% max. 225 kW From + 35°C the battery is actively cooling At +50°C, BMS will take back charging load So at [min] battery temperature < 1°C ->: maximum performance approx. 40 kW (approx. 20%) + 1°C -> +5°C: maximum performance approx. 80 kW (ca. 35%) +5°C -> +15°C: maximum performance approx. 125 kW (ca. 55%) +15°C - +25°C: maximum power approx. 175 kW (ca. 80%) > 25°C-> maximum performance > approx. 225 kW (ca. 100%) > 35°C -> Battery is actively cooling +50°C-> charging load is decreasing

[@MrEV]

Fantastic info, thank you!

[@ChrisPollard]

Seems to me they need to create a standardized measure for charging speeds similar to fuel economy ratings for vehicles. I suppose it ultimately comes down to how much you would use a fast charger somewhere vs. plugging in and charging at home with a level 2 charger overnight. Regardless, charge times have been steadily improving. It is going to take some big changes to battery tech to really bring 'refueling' times up to the same level as pumping dino fuel.

[@MesoScale]

I estimate we are minimum ten years away from that.

[@sevence06]

Thanks for this video. I don't have an Ioniq5 but the ID4 also experiences diminished charge speeds in the winter, which I wish I had been aware of. Far too many car reviewers and Pro EV channels like to tout the high speed charging abilities of EVs under ideal conditions without explaining in detail how cold temperatures impact charging speed. And the mention about grid constrained charging speeds is important too. I'd watched dozens of videos about EVs before buying one and none of them discussed grid constrained fast charging. In the entire ownership experience of owning an EV these can be minor issues, but new buyers of EVs still should be made aware of the potential downsides of fast charging.

[@MrEV]

Thank you. I'm going to spend a bit more time talking about this in the future as I do feel it's important new drivers hear both sides of the story. Far too many EV advocates conveniently hide the downsides which does no-one any favours.

[@smc812]

Nice video Andrew. Just a few facts about Tesla as you mentioned it. 1. It will now precondition for 3rd party charging at Ionity and a few others, but not really sure why you would. 2. While it does pre-condition, you still won't get the same speeds as in summer, it helps but we don't just arrive and always get 250KW. 3. After about 60% you are actually getting a better speed than a Model 3, the charging curve is very steep. I do think perhaps the more important measure of charging is miles/hour, rather than KW. Very efficient cars don't need to charge at very high numbers.

[@scottwills4698]

Can it preheat on Instavolt? My friend called me this morning saying his Model 3 LR AWD at a 120kw Instavolt charger was getting only 60kw and wanted to know why it was so slow. Do you know if you can manually start the pre heating? I sold my Model 3 in 2020 and the car software has moved on quite a lot since then.

[@smc812]

@@scottwills4698 No, it doesn’t include Instavolt.

[@smc812]

Also you can’t manually preheat, but that’s wouldn’t really help if he is there already anyway. The battery will be warmed when charging, so as he waits the speed can increase like Andrew saw.

[@scottwills4698]

@@smc812 thanks! I was thinking he could have manually started it 20mins or so from the charger.

[@alexhaddock4554]

Don’t think miles/hour would be viable, its too variable based on driving style, temps, Guess-o-meter accuracy, manufacturer claims and the like sadly. All cars should have manual pre-heat option, especially when travelling without access to AC. Recent stays in Glasgow in my then iPace, only a mile from Ionity or 50kW instavolts but at near freezing temps its a good half hour to get to temp (once had just 20kW on a lowly 50kW for 30mins). Not good for the driver and blocks units longer for others. I’d have happily sacrificed 5-7% capacity to have arrived ready to go, even more so in newer faster charging cars. I think the Taycan might actually heat the battery to some extent when you precondition off AC though?

[@MihneaStoian]

Hi - the charging speed is based on the MIN battery temp, as long as the battery MAX isn't over 50c or so. So the jump to 100 kW is based on the min temp reaching 15C. We had the opposite experience at a 350kW charger - started at 60, dropped down to 40. My guess is that at 60kW charging the battery isn't warming up at -6C, but instead loosing temp.

[@Petelmrg]

Hello Andrew, always nice to kick off the first video of the new year with a moany one... seriously though, I think in a few short years with the technology race that's on in the ev world we will be looking back at this being the equivalent of the 'dial-up modem' period (for those old enough to remember that)of evs and charging. Exciting times.

[@MrEV]

Definitely! Battery tech is advancing at pace and will be far less susceptible to temperature in the near future.

[@AlanTov]

@@MrEV I’m not sure it is advancing that quickly. Mass production car Solid state batteries aren’t now predicted for another decade…

[@EV_OBD]

Nice video. You can retrieve charging graph in Car Scanner (in Data recording menu).

[@MrEV]

Oh wow - I should have played around with it before doing the video really! Thanks so much.

[@BlackCountryLad]

We have a Škoda Enyaq, paid £440 for 100kW charging! Have seen 91kW once have drove like a crazy man. Received £690 back after issuing a notice of intent to take to small claims court.

[@MrEV]

Oh wow. I think 100kW charging is now included as standard actually. Maybe your claim helped?!

[@BlackCountryLad]

@@MrEV no they have increased the price over time to cover the 100kW charging.

[@MickBeard]

We're looking at getting another EV to go with our Long Range Model 3. I love the look of the Ioniq and also the EV6, but Teslas supercharger network, preconditioning etc really makes it difficult to go for anything other than a Model Y at the moment.

[@MrEV]

If they do enable battery preheating as rumours suggest then it'll make it hard to fault. Especially if we get access to the Supercharger network as well! That said, Model Y seems like a pretty perfect package. I'm looking forward to trying one.

[@nikolarunjavec1079]

As you said. First world problems 😄 The car is still charging great for most of the people and use cases :) great video as always and an amazing car. Best EV choice out there for families by far!

[@roygardiner4002]

You've clearly never owned a Tesla.

[@nikolarunjavec1079]

@@roygardiner4002 oh stepped on a tesla fanboy toenail. 😆 Sorry but tesla is a thing of the past. Legacy auto makers are taking over the stage.

[@BioniqBob]

Tesla - Shake, Rattle & Roll IONIQ 5 just Roll.

[@CosmosRays]

Tesla can pre-heat for both superchargers or destination chargers when navigated to, it is not just super chargers these days. It is good to highlight that charging takes longer in Winter and good for people to know that is for ALL EV’s not just Ioniq 5. 👍🏻

[@michaelfulton5518]

Can vouch for the difference the pre-heating makes with Polestar 2. Navigated to Ionity in convoy with my wife in the Enyaq. P2 got 130kW directly after plugging in. Enyaq never got much beyond 80kW. Over 20 mins this gave extra 14kWh charged to the Polestar over Enyaq. Temperature around -5C (Sweden).

[@MrEV]

That's a fantastic real-world test. Thanks for the comment!

[@AlanTov]

Keep the videos coming. You have a very large potential audience and the market is only growing!!

[@mikegipson1224]

Hi speed run and a bit of Yo-Yo driving can increase the battery temperature - but yes the BMS and heater should cover it off before whilst you drive it. :)

[@AlanTov]

The 2023 eNiro looks interesting! I will consider it when changing my current ID3 1st Edition...

[@dalroth10]

Hi Andrew I'm a newby to EVs so can I be excused for asking what might be a stupid question? Your video demonstrates well that battery temperature has a significant effect on how long it takes to charge the car in the winter months. I got my Hyundai Kona at the end of May last year so I'm just going through my first winter experience and can relate to everything you've said. My stupid question is whether any EV manufacturers insulate the casing of the battery pack? I will feel daft if they actually do this! My simple thinking is that if the external faces of the pack were insulated it would keep the pack warmer, not add much in terms of weight and so improve this issue? Longer term, shorter periods for charging would also help reduce pressure on the public charging network once EV's become dominant in the market? I guess a possible downside could be the pack would get too hot in the summer? I'd be pleased to hear your and other people's views on this.

[@seabream]

In Canada, the first generation Nissan Leaf came with a cold weather package standard that included thermal insulation for the pack and a battery heater. From what I've seen, the UK version did not have it standard, though it may have been an option. This had benefits for everyday driving or days where you were maybe quick-charging once in a trip in cold weather because the battery would retain the waste heat generated during driving or charging if you set a time to finish charging just before departure, allowing you to get more energy from the battery than if it was cold. It could result in slower quick-charging if you needed to do more than one rapid charge in short succession, though, as the Leaf did not have active battery cooling. Note: the battery heater was not really for performance enhancing. It was primarily to stop the battery from getting damaged by freezing. It would trigger when needed to keep the battery from going below -17°C. Compare this to other cars that use battery heating to maintain an optimal temperature. That said, the Leaf used a different battery chemistry than some other EVs and had a wider effective temperature range, so it didn't need active battery thermal management to the same degree as some other vehicles. Not that it was perfect. Some early versions of the Leaf battery pack suffered premature aging in hot climates before having their chemistry tweaked.

[@nickieredshaw7835]

Thanks for another great video update take care and safe travels

[@natboyson]

Great Video - i faced this exact problem with slow charging on my Ioniq 5 - don’t have the eco pack though so no battery heater and on a recent round trip from Devon to the lakes, I didn’t see charging speeds above 70kW even at Ionity - I assume I’m not getting enough temp in the battery. Love getting into the Nerdy details so will pick up a OBD2 port dongle and investigate 👍 cheers

[@chrischild3667]

I spent many hours swearing at Ionity chargers in winter, on the phone asking why my 120kW capable etron was only pulling 65kW after 1hr motorway driving....then I invested in the OBD dongle and could see clear as day the battery was stone cold 🤣. I really don't understand why manufacturers don't add a battery temperature gauge or widget so folks can see whats what.

[@rebeccathorn6406]

Since 2018 the rules on broadband advertising have been tightened - "numerical speed claims in broadband ads - across all media including online and social media - should be based on the download speed available to at least 50% of customers at peak time (8pm-10pm) and described in ads as “average”.". Still doesn't mean you'll get the advertised speed of course, but would nice to see a similar rule for EV advertising.

[@johngordon9987]

The Taycan's are supposed to pre-condition (heat or cool) the battery when navigating to a charger, but I suspect that it only does it when it adds them to the route.automatically. When I have manually added a charger as a destination, it does not seem to change the battery temperature noticeably (the Taycan will show the battery temp on the dash so it is easy to monitor).

[@martinswitzer6534]

glad to see you back

[@christianseiler1250]

Hi Andrew, you're right that Hyundai needs to make an update. But you're wrong on Tesla. If you would take a SR+ and only gave it 11 miles from cold to rapid charging, it wouldn't be able to charge very fast (probably much less than your Ioniq 5), precondition or not.

[@MrEV]

Good to know, thanks.

[@noelsazias]

I'm having troubles since day 1 with charging. I got my Ioniq5 on november 18th and eversince that day I haven't been able to load above 370 km range. (72 kw battery in combination with a heat pump) I complained about it at Hyundai, and this is what they wrote me: The charging speed issue of your IONIQ 5 is a battery temperature related issue. This means that at lower temperatures of the battery, the charging speed is unfortunately less good than at higher temperatures. Hyundai Motor Company, the manufacturer of Hyundai, is currently investigating the possibilities for a possible software update, whereby the battery is "preheated" to the ideal battery temperature. The aim is that the charging speed will be at the most ideal level at all temperatures. This problem does not only occur in the Netherlands, so it has the attention of the manufacturer. The development of a possible solution will most likely take more time, so unfortunately no concrete date can be mentioned. We will keep our dealer organization informed about the possible solution. As soon as the solution is available, we will inform the Hyundai dealers. Your dealer will then notify you.

[@MesoScale]

Thank you for sharing. A bit concerned about their chosen words... "currently investigating possibilities" is corporate for "we will never invest time and money into making existing customers happy".

[@chrisrussell418]

I just hope the companies installing the charging networks are basing requirements on the true average Winter charging rates of our cars otherwise the queues at busy times are going to get even longer as the Mercury drops!

[@StubbyStan28]

I really enjoyed this video & thought that it was very informative. There's one thing that I find interesting, however. The premise that OEMs should be providing a disclaimer about charging speeds. Those numbers or American EPA ratings are idealized numbers. Car manufacturers don't add an asterik when announcing MPG (or if they do it's largely ignored). It's understood that your "milage may vary" quite literally. The technology is new & any current EV consumer is an early adopter. To not think of yourself as one does yourself, and this nascent segment, a disservice.

[@MrEV]

Thanks Cicero, that's a good point and I do consider myself an early adopter but the EV market is growing at such a massive pace (especially in Europe/UK), more and more newbies are getting EVs and finding frustrations due to slow charging. On top of that, it's often the charging networks that get blamed when it's actually the car 'at fault'. I just feel people need some education to know EVs will charge slower in winter to avoid frustration. Slightly disingenuous marketing does nobody any favours. The range is also an issue of course but EPA or WLTP ratings are at least consistent (in theory) across all EVs. With charging speed, all EVs might handle it in a different way depending on their BMSs. Showing an average charge speed in all seasons might make more sense and adjust people's expectations a bit. That said, EVs in Norway, for instance, have close to 100% market share now so clearly this charging speed issue has not affected take-up there!

[@StubbyStan28]

@@MrEV completely fair counter argument (& thanks for making it). You guys (Europeans) are probably 2 or 3 years ahead of us Americans with respect to non-Tesla EV adoption & infrastructure. That said, the American public is woefully uninformed about (everything) EVs. I believe that if you're making a purchase of something as expensive as a car you should do the necessary research to make an informed decision. Your video will definitely aid in that endeavor!

[@honesty_-no9he]

TESLAs do now pre-condition for other charging stations if like you said you use the built in navigation.

[@nissanelectrified9583]

Since you asked: Nissan Ariya does have manual pre heat, so not even the need to have an active OEM navigation (that said, it won't crumble as heavily if you forget to pre heat in the conditions seen in this video anyways. You still will see speeds above 100kW right from the start). So I guess in summer the Ioniq wins (as far as intermediate charging stops are concerned anyways, when it comes to full charges from 5-10% up to 99%, they actually are pretty much on par), in winter the Ariya has the edge - for now at least. I heard the Ioniq update is ready now and rollout has begun. Let us know how well it works! In the end, I think charging times are a bit over estimated by the way. The charging time seen in this video is completely ok. We have more time than we think, if we dare to take it,. And if we fill it with something worth spending time on, nothing is lost to begin with.

[@privettoli]

A good reason to reconsider this car for northern USA / Canada.

[@deurkl]

What I don't understand, why not just make a battery heater button? We have buttons for heating/defrosting the windows etc. They have developed this car for years, and they didn't think this would be an issue? We're driving a two ton machine but Hyundai thinks we can't be trusted with a feature like that?

[@deurkl]

Also I just realised that in petrol cars, there is usually a temperature indicator for the motor oil right? They could do the exact same thing with an electric car! It seems so obvious to implement this.

[@phillyphil1513]

Q: why not just make a battery heater button? A: abuse. Q: We're driving a two ton machine but Hyundai thinks we can't be trusted with a feature like that? A: given the Kona battery fires, turns out they are correct in their analysis.

[@shaunmckenna1923]

Good review for me it is not going to be a problem as you said most of the time you would be doing something for 30 mins or so , on a long drive with the car at worst only doing maybe 230 miles I think most people would be ready for a break and a bit to eat. Here in Canada the one problem would be finding a fast charger as at the moment they are far and few between but within a year I am sure there will be a lot more around.

[@guybrushthreepwood3002]

The update is coming in the first half of this year that will pre heat the battery according to navigation so long as you have the eco pack installed.

[@ErikvanLennep]

That would be very nice. Do you know if this also will apply for the e-niro?

[@guybrushthreepwood3002]

@@ErikvanLennep i don't know that no, i have an Ioniq 5 on order, so only really paid attention to that

[@ChristianBorchgrevinkVigeland]

I wonder how it will work. Does the nav suggest chargers along the route or do you have to add them manually?

[@Loubiaaa]

Great video as usual! Would be interesting to show the 2nd charge of a longer trip. This winter with the Kona I had limited charge only on my first charge, for the others I got full speed because the battery kept high enough temperatures.

[@electricfelix]

Easiest way to heat up the battery (right now) is to fast charge. So as long as you keep visiting every IONITY you can get your hands on, every session should be a faster one than the last. Fast charging != refuelling and never will be. It's fun though ;-)

[@avidviewer1]

Very interesting. Thanks, and best wishes to the magnificent Mrs EV 😍

[@Gdank72]

The main problem is here the common consumer. Its fine for us geeks to understand why we are not getting to 150kw and how to fix this. But for average Joe they would complain to the car manufacturers, as its not clear why. This gives a bad impression of electric cars, which isn't good for the adoption.

[@MrEV]

I couldn't agree more. There needs to be greater consistency. There's also now the added confusion of some chargers only getting full speed if you have an 800v car. Who actually knows how many volts their car is?! EVs must become less geeky if they're to go mainstream. Yet again, it's a reason Tesla gets it so right. I wonder whether Apple, when they finally release a car, will crack it too.

[@TommyBoay]

Recent owner of a 2023 IONIQ5 77kwh model, I can confirm that preheating now works just fine. Went to Ionity with -9 degrees celsius planning the charging via the car navigation system : You could see the preheating in progress on the BlueLink app and got the insane 18m charging with steady 220kw from 10 to 60%.

[@TommyBoay]

For the record, I tried a second fast charge the same day without using internal navigation. It took nearly twice the time to get the same energy into the pack. Preheating is a must.

[@MrEV]

That's fantastic to hear! I wish I had the car long enough to try it myself.

[@Lewis_Standing]

I suppose euan could probably tell us why. High internal resistance as the cold atoms hold on to their electrons more and don't like a fast flow in?

[@MrEV]

For anyone reading this, Dr Euan McTurk is an electrochemist who really knows his stuff. His channel, Plug Life Television is my favourite on KZbin. Here's his video about how winter affects EVs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYqbgoFopZ6HoZo

[@xvdd1]

Thanks for the report having just pulled the trigger on an I5 this is important information, coincidentally I am about 15 mins from that station so even more poignant, I agree charge performance should be more prominent in the advertising it certainly was not mentioned by the salesman so the 20%-80% in 18 mins is front and centre in a customers mind I hope they get that battery precondition update out soon.

[@MrEV]

The battery preconditioning update will be available by July I think. Just make sure the one you've ordered has the battery heater (Eco Pack). A lot of people with lower trims are going to be really annoyed being stuck with the slow charging times.

[@xvdd1]

@@MrEV Thanks for the update the example I am buying is an ex dem rear wheel with the Ultimate Pack so I am assuming it does not, I think that means it does not have a heat pump, I will give them a ring tomorrow.

[@xvdd1]

@@MrEV I am informed it has the Tech Pack and Eco Pack, picked it up today our registrations are the same except the last letter lol, if I may ask where did you get the update info.

[@Alex-tj1zo]

Thank you for the detailed description 👍

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Before watching... When the "minimum" hits 20° it ramps. But when the "maximum" hits 40-45° it throttles. Result Is a narrow charge window. . Let's see if I'm right . . Seems I was optimistic?

[@iangardner2311]

Speed limited by lowest battery temperature. Below 15c slow, 15-20c, faster, 20-25c faster. Then full speed above 25c.

[@owenbutcher9235]

In the earlier part of the video (about 8:30) you showed the Car Scanner screen with Batt Min at 15C, Batt Max at 26C and Water Cooling Temperature at 32C. As the cooling water is warmer than the battery, this would suggest that the water is being heated (either by element or by heat pump) and that water (cooling water) is being circulated to heat the battery which is catching up to it. So it seems that battery heating is working, but just not ahead of starting the charging.

[@MrEV]

Well noticed, thank you! I'd only just got the app so was still getting the hang of it all at that point.

[@PhilT993]

That was interesting. Thank you. It would be interesting to see what it performs like when it really gets cold outside. Where I am now, in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, it is currently -26C (-36C with the windchill). The Ioniq 5 looks like a really good EV, but it is not even available here quite yet. it is below freezing for about half the year here, so cold weather performance is really important. Heat pump and a battery heater are a must have!

[@MihneaStoian]

We're in Toronto and the car charges at 40-60kW at -5C at Petro Canada 350kW chargers. Hopefully the update will fix it, even if just doubles it. Otherwise the car is a dream so far! Today it's -20C, set it to preheat it via the app before we left, was nice and cozy.

[@MihneaStoian]

Also wanted to mention that the range on the car really makes charging at the public chargers a non issue - only had to charge for 30 min overall on a 500km roundtrip to PEC and back.

[@AzizIzgin]

@@MihneaStoian nice info 🙏 I am planning on buying the i5 with the 72 battery here in Sweden. Don’t know which battery you have but what would be a realistic range in good or bad conditions on the motorway at 110kmph? Some range test on KZbin show way below what i5 claims on paper for the rwd model. I plan to buy it with 19” if it is better on range.

[@starvictory7079]

The BMW IX3 was the best car in Norway when they tested winter range as it kept it almost the same.

[@PhilT993]

@@starvictory7079 From what I read, the iX3 will not be available in North America

[@mikeuk4130]

Apparently, e-Niros with heat pumps also have the Satnav-based pre-heater facility.

[@garycassap-brown7829]

Hi Andrew, I currently drive an E-Niro but even back when I was driving the 1st gen Leaf and particularly in winter, I would always program my car to charge at home on wall charger so that the car completed charging just before I left in the morning (as well as pre-heated cabin) the benefit is you do'nt start the day with a stone-cold battery, I found efficiency better and for longer trips better on early rapid charge. I see the point you have proved well done and very informative, but you would'nt normally operate that way would you ? It would be interesting next time you have a long winter journey if you charged the Ioniq 5 overnight as described above and then at the 1st rapid charge (similar SOC as this test) to see if there was any difference. Thanks for another interesting video. Gary

[@ecoheliguy]

Canadian Ioniq 5 ligature states the battery heater is used while plugged in.

[@roderickmain9697]

Tesla perspective: As long as you tell the navigation that you are going to a charger (some non-Tesla ones appear on the maps these days) then it will "preconditon" the battery. If you just rock up then you lose a bit (OK a lot) of charging speed until it heats up the battery which can be a minute or five (or more if ambient is cold). It may be the case that chargers do some load sharing. If you are the only one then you should get whatever is available. But it may drop down if two or more are charging. Tesla Superchargers tend to be in pairs (marked 1a,1b, 2a, 2b) etc and its an unwritten etiquette that you use one of a free pair first as the load will be shared across two (I even saw a 1c and 2c in Fort William so might be shared three ways). I'm seeing more chargers at charging locations and more locations. The new breed seem to be fast (100kw +) . Theres a whole new set (6+) going in next to the Tesla superchargers in Banbury.

[@sylvainjamais904]

Does your OBD work direct with ABRP Andrew? Personal experience of long trips with e-Niro in winter is that the first charge is slowish and then the subsequent motorway stops I get max charge rate owing to the battery having not had time to cool back down from a combination of having charged and driving at motorway speeds. Also, I seem to recall the Ioniq 5/EV6 scavenges heat from the battery to heat the cabin, not sure that only happens in ECO mode or all modes, might influence too.

[@MrEV]

In theory ABRP should work fine with the OBD dongle, although I've not tested it yet. I'll perhaps explore that in another video.

[@MrEV]

I just tested and confirm it works fine with ABRP. I will aim to do a video as well!

[@redsquirrelftw]

Seems they should just add an option to manually warm the battery. Like literally a button that turns on the battery heater for like 15 minutes.

[@seanstr26m123]

That still sounds great though

[@tarassu]

Minimum cell temperature is the most important for low temp. Not max. Same with other EVs.

[@barryjgreenhalgh8450]

Have you done a video on how you set up Car Scan for your EV

[@KodessR]

Guess I got lucky, my Ioniq always charges at its max speed when fast charging. .. but it is an ioniq 2017, 28 kWh battery with a max speed of 66kW 😂 Still, 20 minutes for a full charge, getting me more than 200km is fine. In fact the best strategy in this old ioniq is to drive fast and charge more. NL to Spain when driving 100km/h is 22 hours. Drive 130km/h and its 21 hours. But you are charging in hour longer 😁

[@MrEV]

The 28kWh classic Ioniq is an amazing machine! A great balance between efficiency and charge speed.

[@adrianguggisberg3656]

I have both, the 28kWh Ioniq and the Ioniq 5. I've had the Ioniq 5 for a few months now, and I use the 28kWh Ioniq for all my daily driving. It's vastly superior on narrow country lanes, in city traffic, for parking and the like. It still is the best EV out there in many ways. However, it takes 22 minutes to recharge 130 motorway km, and usually closer to 100km in reality. With the Ioniq 5, I can recharge real 280 motorway km, 250 km at the very least, in 35 minutes worst case. If I start with a full battery, I can drive from my home to Geneva, drive around in Geneva and drive home with a single 10 minute recharge. That's 10 minutes out of 5 hours of driving. I can choose where I want to recharge, basically anywhere on the way down there and back. With the classic Ioniq I need to recharge 4 times, and I need to do it when and where the car requires it. This, and the fact that the Ioniq 5 is quite a bit more comfortable and less noisy, makes it so much more enjoyable and less exhausting on any trip to a destination more than 50km away.

[@AzizIzgin]

@@adrianguggisberg3656 nice info 🙏 I am planning on buying the i5 with the 72 battery here in Sweden. Don’t know which battery you have but what would be a realistic range in good or bad conditions on the motorway at 110kmph? Some range test on KZbin show way below what i5 claims on paper for the rwd model. I plan to buy it with 19” if it is better on range.

[@adrianguggisberg3656]

@@AzizIzgin That's an almost impossible question to answer, since I don't know what your roads, traffic, weather is like. But you can probably expect around 250km to 280km under most circumstances. Add 50km to 80km if you start at 100% SoC. Sweden is an almost unpopulated country, I assume there's almost no traffic outside a few urban areas. Less traffic means a little less range as well.

[@AzizIzgin]

@@adrianguggisberg3656 ok but with your motorway ride you mentioned above. At what speed were you at when doing around 250-280km? Was that with a full charge?

[@richardhaywoodh]

Great update Andrew. I seem to remember you had a deal with Flaviana that you would fund the car by doing more videos or .... the Ioniq would go ??

[@MrEV]

I’m hoping she’s forgotten!

[@ronb4633]

Hi Andrew, the Porsche Taycan also does battery heating when routing to a fast charger. Started with its 2019 Model.

[@MrEV]

Great to hear! Now that's a car I need to test...

[@ronb4633]

@@MrEV indeed it is and to get you wife’s opinion on 😙.

[@TheEVside]

Great video as always sir

[@MrEV]

Thanks so much, Simon!

[@noelyboy6969]

Charged at ionity last night to try it out it worked fine but very expensive to use, I will wait till I get the ionity kia deal in March I will get it at half price.

[@mickhursey4802]

The enthusiasm you normally show for EV’s appears to be waining a little with this car. The poor efficiency and now the advertised charging speeds, I’m getting the impression you’re not overly satisfied with this very expensive car? The eNiro is a tough act to follow I guess, but hopefully the new car will eventually come up to expectations. I drive the MG5, a car at the other end of the scale at least in terms of its cost. This means a no thrills car with a maximum of 50kWh charge rate and I can just squeeze out 200 miles on the right summers day at a steady 65 mph (if that doesn’t make you feel better nothing will), and while I do have some envy of you rich Tesla and Ioniq drivers after a great deal of panic, disappointment and range angst I still thoroughly enjoy the whole EV experience and of course watching your videos, so keep up the good work and I look forward to the next Ioniq instalment.

[@MrEV]

Any apparently lack of enthusiasm is purely being overworked and not sleeping enough! I still love the car. It has some faults but there's honestly no other car I'd rather have right now. Damn expensive, but actually relatively good value compared to other premium EVs. Whether we keep it for the full term of our PCP agreement, I don't know. It is difficult to justify the cost. You've made a great choice with the MG5 and I'm looking forward to testing it, although my wife doesn't like estate cars so I'm not sure how that'll go!

[@jessonabike]

After charging, the battery is a lot warmer, so wouldn't subsequent charge sessions be much quicker? That would be good to see Andrew. Most of my 'long' journies are around 300-350 miles, so in my Model3 LR I take one charge stop, or two if I start with a low soc or I have the bikes racked up on the back. I find the Tesla journey planner preferences fewer longer charge stops. I would much rather do two 15 minute charge sessions than one 45 minute.

[@MrEV]

Absolutely. I'll try to find time to test it. I agree that more faster sessions is probably preferable, although that's easier in a Tesla as you've a greater chance of getting an available charger. With the motorway infrastructure the way it is in the UK, I feel more inclined to stay longer at a charger once I've found one. Obviously that'll improve in the next couple of years.

[@jessonabike]

@@MrEV I wonder if you will get access to the Tesla charging network or a software update for killer preconditioning first? Either way, the future looks bright :)

[@nervousfrog101]

I wonder if they will update the Kona and Niro software to pre-condition when navigating to a fast charger.

[@MrEV]

Great point. I think they probably will actually - the software is pretty much identical.

[@ErikvanLennep]

I hope so as well, the sooner the better :)

[@yanivbalas1]

THANKS FOR ALL...

[@peterthomson127]

The battery management system doesn't seem to be using the battery heater effectively if at all. The heater should be able to ramp the battery up to it's optimal temperature quickly at the start of charge, allowing the charge rate to ramp quickly, rather than relying on the self-heating from slow charging. Could this be because the battery heater is an option, and only on the Ultimate model, so Hyundai haven't done much to support this yet? Sounds like a SW update needed.

[@stephenholland5930]

It's a £1200 option on the Ultimate model only, but was standard on Andrew's Project 45.

[@EvLifeUK]

Lol almost true tho Tesla also hate charging in cold weather if your driving 15-20 to a charger I see speeds as low as 40kw till the battery warms up. The car does have preconditioning but that’s only for Superchargers and ionity since latest update no others. With Tesla though this brings another issue for example I leave home in Winchester with 100% and drive to Lincoln for the football most weekends the car doesnnt think it can make the 180miles without stopping 🤦🏼‍♂️ so recommends a charger though then preconditions the 95miles to the chargers wasting energy and a lot of it only then to deliver 130kw and straight away kicks the fan in as battery is to hot. 😂 Teslas aren’t perfect either 😂

[@twank6234]

Hi Andrew, very informative information. Thank you for this test. One question, you mention that Hyundai is working on a fix that allows the battery heater to pre-heat before arriving at a charging station. Do you have a source for this information, given that a petition is running for this feature. Thanks!

[@MrEV]

It’s been confirmed by Hyundai Norway: www.ioniqforum.com/threads/hyundai-norway-confirms-upgrade-regarding-battery-preheat-when-navigating-to-chargepoints.38839/

[@charlesbuzz]

in theory, Winter mode will eat the battery, if the car is running, if the battery level is below 33% and if the outside temp is < -10

[@MrEV]

If you fancy getting yourself an OBD dongle like the one I have, please consider using the links on my website below as I get some referral cash. Thank you! www.misterev.co.uk/gear/obd-dongle

[@hawkeye880]

I have just ordered one for my ioniq 5 with your link one question does the dongle wake itself up? Ie when you put the ignition on.

[@vendel5667]

You should have drive like an hour or so and by that time the battery would have warmed up more therefore you could get more power. Charge the car when you finish your journey not when you start specialy in winter.

[@MihneaStoian]

Hi - I ordered one and it came today, unfortunately the LELink doesn't work with Android phones, even though it says it does in the description.

[@timothyvenn4193]

@@MihneaStoian sadly I had the same problem. I even set up the “location” on my app for car scanner, but it still refused to connect.

[@stephenhayes4678]

Wish I'd read the comments, been trying to connect for an hour... Can't connect using two android phones... Sending it back

[@FFVoyager]

Interesting. The other day I had to quickly charge my 'classic' Ioniq 28 as I'd not charged overnight - went 3 miles to the PodPoint rapid at my local Lidl. Plugged in at 22%, battery temperature was 6c and I immediately was pulling 45kW. That soon ramped up to 47.5% and stayed there until it got to 80%. (All figures from EVNotify as I use that with ABRP). Essentially no delay on a 50kW charger in the reasonably cold weather. 'Progress' seems to be going backwards!

[@MrEV]

Someone else commented about their classic Ioniq too. Amazing how good that car was (is) for both charging and efficiency. Do you have much degredation?

[@KodessR]

@@MrEV That's the weird thing about the old ioniq. You can't find any ioniq with degredation. My 2017 model with 40000 miles has a 100% battery. On the online forums for ioniqs, people have 85000 miles and still 100% SoH according to the OBD dongles. Voltage of the cells all still seem fine, so its a bit confusing. There has to be degredation, but we don't know where Hyundai has hidden it (some kind of extra hidden buffer maybe?).

[@hughstephens7246]

@@KodessR Yes I agree < I am on 40,000 miles on 2018 car. No degradation shown on EV Notify or car. There will be a buffer unreported but am very confident that there will be no change at 80,000 either. Charging efficiency on cold days after my regular drive of 100 miles/2.5 hours (and then back again) is usually 43kWh on a 50 k machine and high 60's on ultra-rapids (maximum 70 on the classic Ioniq). Have travelled into London from Dorset quite a lot recently and a 30 min charge on a MFG 100 kWh machine gets me home without stopping....So really not sure that Hyundai have really taken that much of a step forward...just a bigger battery that I don't need...

[@OskarHenrikssonx]

A theory is that the classic ionity tries to heat up to he battery as soon as you start it. My bmw i3 does not and I also encounter super slow charging(20-30kW) if I start a cold day(-1C) and go directly to the charger.

[@OskarHenrikssonx]

I have a friend who owns one and he claims that it's very thirsty in winters the first 5 minutes or so, that goes inline with my theory, any similar experiences?

[@marktomasetti8642]

Market penetration of EV’s is low now. When it goes up, we may find lines at the chargers. If I have to wait for 1 or 2 people ahead of me to charge, the time spent goes up quickly. I don’t think I’ll be happy to wait for an hour, then wait for my car to charge. Still, interesting tech.

[@warty5007]

Very interesting video thanks 🙏

[@steveroper8733]

I hope you and your family are enjoying the Hyundai. Since you have had it a while I would love to hear your thoughts about ownership or whether you still miss the e-Niro?

[@MrEV]

I will make a 6-month ownership review but for now, just to say that no, I don't miss the e-Niro necessarily - although its size is far better for parking (and small roads). I do also prefer having buttons for heated steering wheels and seats. IONIQ 5 is a step too far in that respect. Overall, I prefer IONIQ 5 but there are such good lease deals for the e-Niro, it could be argued that IONIQ 5 isn't worth the extra money unless you really need the added space and charging speed. For us, I know we'd still be very happy with e-Niro.

[@CED99]

What's the name of the software you are using to sniff the battery temps?

[@kyliefan7]

Question doesn’t one company (Volkswagen and Audi?) just make sure the battery is always 70 degrees Fahrenheit (not sure Celsius) at all times? That really makes more sense.

[@MrEV]

That would be quite an efficiency hit if it did that all the time? Interesting if true though. If you find a link about it, do let me know!

[@Jake2hk]

I have seen reports (Batterylife for eample) that VW has done that with ID3's and possibly early ID4's (not sure if to 70F/21C, but thereabouts). Latest ID4 software seems to stop at lower temperature, propably to improve efficiency and battery heater comes on when charging (and works with cabin heating) I hope we get pre-heating possibility soon in an update.

[@EV_OBD]

@@Jake2hk ID.3 - ID.4 - Enyaq heats up battery to 10°C. Still an efficiency hit on very short journeys in winter. The most recent production cars heat up battery to 0°C only, soon to be introduced in 3.0 software update to all MEB cars.

[@leoclarke6462]

Hi Andrew - thank you , it’s 4 months since you got it- will you be doing a 6 month review - do I detect your enthusiasm for the ionic 5 has waned? Look forward to your review

[@MrEV]

I will - and enthusiasm hasn’t waned! 😀

[@tokepanduro7302]

at the moment you should turn of the heater in the car while it is fast charging, should possible help a bit.

[@MrEV]

That's a good point - Bjorn's video mentioned that.

[@petersfield7397]

Very interesting and excellent vlog, i am wondering how this car would cope in Orkney Scotland, where i planned to live.

[@MrEV]

They have loads of EVs in Orkney and consider most cars in Norway are EVs, so in reality it’s not too much an issue if you’re prepared for it. IONIQ 5 still seems to charge faster than most, despite the winter temperatures.

[@gregfinn2602]

Andrew is correct. Orkney has more electricity than it can use, due to large amount of renewables. There are many evs and chargers. They even have scheme called Reflex Orkney and contribute to costs of vehicles and powering homes for residents and businesses. They also use the excess electricity to create green Hydrogen to act as a "battery" or power the ferries

[@markymarkreviews]

Same results and charge speeds in my I5 P45 edition. Disappointing but not a deal breaker as at a stop, it is still fast enough! But hopefully with software update it should improve and make better use of sat nav and heat pump. (Like Tesla!) MM

[@MrEV]

Definitely not a deal breaker. It's fast enough for me!

[@kyliefan7]

So Hyundai comes out with a newer up to date technology EV and doesn’t put the same battery warmer that Tesla has had for a long time? Thank you for telling everyone about the positive and negatives about this car. I’m sure people will appreciate it!

[@MrEV]

Thankfully it is at least a software issue and not a hardware one. I'd strongly recommend people get the Eco Pack though!

[@stephenholland5930]

The Eco pack is a £1200 option on the top spec Ultimate model.

[@kyliefan7]

@@stephenholland5930 That Nice! (Sarcasm) All car builders need to get out of that way of thinking or the buyers are just gonna vote no with their car choice! There are more EVs out there.

[@nettlesoup]

I guessed 80 kW! In the Tesla, recent updates allow us to navigate to Ionity (and maybe other HPC) stations and the car will automatically precondition. Even if I charge at the nearby 50 kW it still pops up a suggestion to navigate to the rapid charger in future to allow preconditioning, which I haven't tried but you'd need to have already charged there once before for it to show up in the charging map. I'm too cheap to actually spend 69p/kWh at Ionity, although I would if I was desperate or in a rush. I didn't know they offered a £12/month subscription to bring the price down. That makes it much more reasonable if it's available to any car owner.

[@CED99]

I suppose as long as you're using once a week the subscription is worth it

[@ianwynne5483]

That's a very high price for charging, that's why you found the forecourt empty, better to charge across the tunnel, im paying €0.305 per kwh with Esband no subscription

[@MrEV]

Usually IONITY is full of cars, despite the price.

[@grahamarnold2591]

IONIQ AT 69P RIGHT. Forget that then. Splash and dash is the way to handle long distance driving. All this fill the battery to 80% that's for folks with time on their hands . I guess im spoiled with The Supercharger network. pre heat the Tesla under navigation. plug in, peep, coffee and cake, leave with 100 miles plus. Off on journey to the next supercharger -- Think the IONIQ 5 looks great -- sunroof / AWD / I would be interested ---but haven't driven a MODEL Y YET. Cheers GRAHAM. Model 3 / skoda citigo EV .. ex Model S.

[@MrEV]

Driving long distances is all so much easier in a Tesla. The problem with splash and dash for non-Teslas is there's not much splashing if the battery is still cold! As for the IONIQ 5 - it's such a shame they don't have the sunroof option in the UK. I'm loving the AWD though - handles slippery leaves, ice, and mud so much better than my old e-Niro used to.

[@mglmouser]

What you dont say is wether the fast charge system you're connected to is 400v or 800v. The Ioniq can only reach its max charge speed off newer (rarer) 800v fast chargers.

[@MrEV]

I should have made that clear, apologies. IONITY chargers are relatively common in Europe and are all 800v/350kW.

[@TassieEV]

Did you have the heating inside car turned off? Also try again but do lots of hard acceleration and hard regen all the way to the charger will heat up the battery from how Bjorn does it in Norway.

[@smijas]

I think the Ioniq 5 with heatpump has the hardware on board to "solve these first world problems"; I agree with several other comment writers that EV-car designers and manufacturers should give their users more options to control the device. Be that more buttons or more functionality through APP/screen-in-Car, but it is SOFTWARE that dictates what the hardware is doing at any given moment or circumstance or future circumstance (the car cannot predict). The user should be able to take over control (ie. be in control as he/she wants to be in control) when the car does not act according to human planning.

[@AdamRogers3091]

Assuming you had a short journey to the charger, would the battery normally be up to optimal temperature if you’d driven, for say, 100-150 miles first? Interested to know as considering an Ionic 5. The update sounds like a game changer, assuming available with all models and not just those with a heat pump?

[@MrEV]

The distance driving seems to make very little difference. It doesn’t warm the battery much at all.

[@Jaw0lf]

Great to highlight the facts that EV chargers do not always deliver the max. I had a problem with a 100kWh BP Pulse charger only giving 12kWh....I believe was faulty and moving to a 50kWh I managed a 46kWh charge. So problems can occur and it is great to have a backup plan. Also most EV's charge rate slows massively past 80% and can take the same time taken from 10% to 80 % to charge the final 20%. This means comparing, the Ioniq5 moved to almost 30 minutes. Faster than the Kia E Niro that would be around 50 mins. So still a lot better and 30 mins is about right for a coffee and toilet break!

[@chrischild3667]

Some chargers are limited to a maximum amperage too. MFG charge stations, some Gridserves, some BP pulse and some instavolt will limit 400v cars to ~100kW max but the same charger will offer 150kW to 800v cars. Those cars which have reduced voltage in the pack at certain % states of charge will see this quite evidently with much slower rates. None of which is advertised anywhere (unless you sneak around the back of the charger and look for the small metal sign with the voltage and amp ratings).

[@stephenholland5930]

Chargers deliver power in kW. Energy storage is in kWh.

[@basementstudio7574]

Thanks for the video Andrew. Does the car scanner work with iOS or only Android? BTW here in the USA the lease rates for the Ioniq5 are terrible. For the 51,000 dollar AWD SEL I've been quoted $749 per month with $10,000 down payment on a 3 year lease. Alternatively a $63,000 Polestar 2 with $10,000 down payment it's $444 per month on a 3 year lease. I think I now like the Polestar better.

[@MrEV]

Also Android

[@Bawdale]

The battery management is to protect the battery. If you got the advertised speed in all conditions, your battery would probably degrade 10%+ every year.

[@MrEV]

Of course. If it preheated the battery before charging then that shouldn't degrade it very much (if at all), would it?

[@Bawdale]

@@MrEV Yes true. I can see the logic behind heating the battery when plugged in. Its better for range but ultimately for speed preheating before arriving makes the journey quicker.

[@topper45]

I see that ABRP can now input live data from OBD (for some cars) and generate better live plans as a result. However, they have a big red flag about the security of these dongles (which is largely missing from the cheap ones). Meaning that criminals could easily pair with an insecure dongle and use apps to unlock the car. Did you have this as a consideration when you bought your model? Thx

[@MrEV]

I’m planning to make a video about ABRP and OBD dongles. You’re absolutely right about security. I believe it’s relatively safe when the car is on but I’d certainly recommend disconnecting the OBD dongle after use. I didn’t even think about the security implications when I purchased my model so I’ve no idea how secure it is. I need to do some more research.

[@topper45]

@@MrEV Thanks for the reply, Andrew. I am due to drive to Austria at the beginning of next month in my 77Kw/h ID.4. I thought about buying the OBDLink CX that ABRP recommend. But they are >£100 and I wonder how much better it would be than the in-car VW nav, which also plans charging stops with access to live data?

[@topper45]

@@MrEV Just a quick update on security. I bought the OBDLink CX as recommended by ABRP and I can confirm that it works seamlessly with ABRP's planning app. Couldn't be happier as I'm driving to Austria in my ID.4 next week. The blurb that comes with the CX says that I can leave it installed and that it is hacker-proof, but without explaining how. So I did some experimenting. Turns out that you can pair and connect with it just fine when the car is unlocked and I am sitting in the drivers seat. If I try to connect from outside the car when the car is locked, it refuses but also sets off the car alarm. Brilliant!

[@COSolar6419]

These results should not be that surprising. Advertised range, charging speeds and acceleration are always best case scenarios.

[@physics77guy]

there is nothing to complaint about... since when EPA ratings are correct.... they do ideal testing but they never disclose it and manufacturers always quote EPA ratings and people accept it as a fact... even in gas cars the mileage drops significantly in winters and so is the case for hybrids....

[@MrEV]

I'm talking about charging speed more than range though.

[@physics77guy]

@@MrEV it's the same equivalent in terms of what manufacturer advertise. They advertise EPA ratings for fuel whereas we all know in real life you won't get the same.mileage, same with Hyundai as technically they are not wrong when they say 10 to 80% in 12 minutes under ideal conditions. It's an analogy as how manufacturer advertise