Every Nihilist is Really an Optimist | Ash Sarkar meets Frankie Boyle

[@lavenderandred_]

It's amazing how so many people take Frankie's wider points at face value and how his narratives and characters have been coopted by the exact people he's been criticising since day one. It reminds me of how Al Murray's Pub Landlord character is so often taken seriously by Little Englanders who've clearly never thought critically about the values and ideas he's satirising. It proves the idea that radical ideas eventually get de-fanged, voided of context and incorporated into a pro-elite narrative. It's the case for comedy as it is for any reaction against capitalism. Frankie, you look great and I hope you're looking after yourself. We need you and your insight around as long as possible. Great content from Novara, as always.

[@richardridings7511]

Yeh, agreed. Same was true a generation earlier for Harry Enfield'd "Loadsof money" character. The right loved him as a Thatcherite icon he was trying to debunk.

[@comanchio1976]

...and same with a generation even before that, with the sitcom Til Death Do Us Part/In Sickness And In Health... The actor who played Alf Garnet (the prototypical Al Murray) was horrified at how his satirical portrayal was being coopted by the right and taken at face value...

[@nomoreheroes93]

Al Murray knew he was being misunderstood but just continued to profit from the people he was satirising though, rather than challenge it

[@lavenderandred_]

@@nomoreheroes93 A large portion of his viewership still understand the joke, and he’s not responsible for other people’s stupidity. If they want to give him money because they falsely think they’re promoting someone with similar chauvinist views then that’s their problem

[@FCJ14]

" If you wrestle a pig you both get covered in shit and the pig enjoys it" such an incredible phrase I have never heard :'D thank you Ash and Frankie. Great discussion !

[@carolineduvier7580]

Love your work, Ash, and the way you can make difficult concepts easy to understand. And obviously, Frankie is just amazing. On your point that Germany has handled its past far better than Britain. As a German, I can say this is only true for a very small segment - that relating to the killing of Jews in Nazi Germany. That is all we learn in history (I am 37, living in the UK, might have changed by now). Interestingly, Germany does not capture ethnic origin in its national surveys or any other official statistics. You might think that is a good thing, because the idea was that it doesn‘t matter where you come from. However, if you now want to look further into issues of discrimination in Germany, you can‘t do it by ethnic groups. The recent reports of racist police (and the unwillingness of the government to commission an in-depth study into that) have highlighted deep seated racism issues. Germans act as if they are appalled when they hear it, yet turn around and say: Ugh, a Polish family moved in next door, or say: Too many immigrants from Syria, or: Too many Turks. No understanding that this is STILL discrimination. It might not be against Jews, but it is alive and well. The polling for parties like the AfD shows that. Also, Germany has not dealt at all with its colonial past. More than 50,000 people killed in Namibia and the first time I hear about it is when I start digging into the colonial past. I don‘t know if Germany offered an apology to its former colonies either. Then comes the way it deals with international trade and the participation in arming pretty much anyone who pays a good price for the weapons. Germany as number one export nation - anyone ever really looked into WHAT it is exporting? The weapons sales slowed down only very recently after public outrage, otherwise Germany would have continued to sell weapons to Saudia Arabia and, well, anyone who pays. I do agree with you that Germany has done better than Britain in facing its past demons. Britain does not see the need to apologise for anything, and it has wrecked havoc all over the world, and still reaps the benefits, just like the rest of the Western world. But Germany is nowhere near being anti-racist, anti-colonialist, or anti-fascist. I know people who describe Africans as running around trees dancing. Why has this taught image used by fascists, Nazis, and anyone who wanted to make money out of slavery and not give up their superiority (think housing regulations against Blacks in the US) left such am imprint that a German person would say that in 2020? Lots of work needs to be done by ALL countries in the West.

[@annabizaro-doo-dah]

Germans have always treated Turks appallingly. I was completely amazed at their attitudes in the 80s. Btw Frankie Boyle is not amazing. He's a rank misogynist with some god awful views about women's safety issues with regard to men self identifying as a women.

[@uniteddreamer]

Weren't they forced into confronting their demons by suffering complete annihilation? Something Britain hasn't faced (at least pre-brexit/right wing death spiral)

[@mattliamjack3293]

Thanks for this interview👍🏼💚🌍🍀🍀

[@kestermuller9595]

I would support this woman's promotion to head of factual at C4

[@matthewhackett1710]

As a white late fifties male, i am so desperate for these two to be running the country. Frankie for PM, Ash for Home Secretary. Can you picture Frankie doing Prime Minister's Questions......... Oh My Goodness.

[@ibrahimferit9567]

He would start a war with ocean nations!

[@kimaboe]

@@ibrahimferit9567 Hey, you have to hit your enemies before their cities grow hydraulic legs and begin the long war for resources.

[@mvick7king]

As a brown, pre pubescent, walrus I agree with your take.

[@richardridings7511]

Thank you so much for that glorious image.

[@goneonholidaybymistake84]

One of the best interviews Novara Media has done. Nice one, Ash.

[@TheInternetIsDeadToMe]

Love these two. Such a great chat.

[@coyharlingen]

i feel like i should be paying more for this content. smashed it.

[@hallofmirrorsnetwork]

@smeggyincel incel by name, incel by nature. Anyone who uses the term ‘champagne socialist’ instantly disqualifies themselves from grown up conversation. Who hurt you?

[@AHighlander]

Dunno about the host or their following but it's perhaps unfair to describe Frankie as one since he has actually worked for a living and pays his fair share of tax to the UK exchequer (around 40% apparently) unlike several 'champagne socialist' types..

[@StigandStem]

Seriously your willing to pay to watch Two selfish egotistical morons talk BS, that can only mean you have less of a life and sense of self being, than they think they have

[@StigandStem]

@@SH-op9hc That sums it up, so your saying that people watching your content have no life, if your accusing me of not having one, so,you insult your own mindless followers 😂🤣 rich.

[@archivist17]

Optimists can only be disappointed if they are wrong; pessimists can be pleasantly surprised

[@patcampton9799]

It makes me realise that I had quite a good history education at school in the 60s. Most of it was social and economic history but we did learn about Ireland and the famine. Maybe it was because we had a great lefty teacher. Certainly he increased my love of history.

[@chriskoppany7346]

I can't say the same for my education. The only subject we covered in history on colonialism was slavery in Africa, and that didn't even touch on post-1833 practice. Apart from that, we once read an extract about a Barbados colony; this was throughout twelve years. I had to voluntarily learn the course of the Irish potato famine through a documentary in my spare time; I learnt more about Ireland in that one hour and twenty-five minutes than I did through hundreds of history lessons. Our English teachers said that they had realised the lack of education around these sorts of things but didn't end up doing very much about it. But although a large part of the remainder was taken up by the norman conquest, which was mainly about `who fought who` and `which lord got which bit of land`, there was a satisfying amount of information about effects on ordinary people, and in fact there was not an obsession over the succession of the monarchy as stereotypes suggested. The curriculum went beyond critical in looking at how the country was run, although there was not a lot of information about peoples' daily lives. And whilst there is definitely an undue `love of the elites`, pushed by some groups in their glorification and praise of the monarchy and government, for most people the events of colonialism, along with the rest of the shameful aspects of Britain's past (and present) are quite clear, and there is obviously a counterculture to the love of elites.

[@uniteddreamer]

Did you learn about the slave trade and/or the worst excesses of colonialism (famines, massacres, Kenya independence etc). Because my history lessons tiptoed around all of that despite delving deep into the industrial revolution and colonialism post the emergence of the German state (ignoring completely the American civil war happening at the same time). And then promptly stopped at the end of the world avoiding the thorny issue of Indian independence. My educational history was complete and carefully sculpted propaganda looking back on it.

[@uniteddreamer]

@@chriskoppany7346 you're lucky. That wasn't my experience from the 70s-80s. Slave trade, slavery wasn't even mentioned. Even colonialism only entered into the carve up at the end of the 19th century. I don't even remember Ethiopia's resistance from Italy being mentioned even though it was one salient aspect of the build up of ww2.

[@oliverwhite712]

Good talk. I'd love to hear what Frankie said to the now ex-meninist in his DMs that convinced him how misogyny would ruin his life. I feel the barrier to gender equality is that feminism is perceived as reserved for girls and women when really it's pretty useless if it's not taught among boys and men. It's good to have former edgelords advocating for this stuff.

[@LieutenantSteel]

The reason right wing comics won't joke about Boris and right wing civilians will think it's too much, is because to be right wing, you have to believe in hierarchy. They only believe in comedy which punches down because punching down is acceptable in the society they want- punching up is forbidden because it's a sign that you aren't obedient enough within the social hierarchy and are thgus "deviant."

[@itsspoodini]

If you want to compare, look how well Nish Kumar is perceived 😁 they hate his leftist jokes

[@markrosstomlin]

✊👏🙌

[@K_-_-_-_K]

Hierarchy is intrinsic, its not up to belive or disbelief. We all have to navigate it

[@mikemurray2027]

@@belkentens Plenty of right-wing critics though.

[@mikemurray2027]

@@K_-_-_-_K It's not instinctive to socialists and communists. Quite the opposite.

[@seamusirl1445]

Fantastic interview, love Frankie Boyle. Great job Ash / Novara Media

[@ianedmonds9191]

I was taught about the Jacobites and Culloden and the highland clearances in primary 7. Back in the 80s there were plenty of Nationalist educators around to pass on the flame of freedom. Thank you Mrs Stenhouse. We visited Killiecrankie and Culloden on our school trip in P7. We knew the history. Powerful experience. Scotland needs independence. Luv and Peace.

[@julielevinge266]

More than ever today!!✊♥️

[@ooloncolluphid5299]

The Jacobite rising and Culloden had nothing to do with Scottish independence. It was about restoring a pro-catholic absolute monarch to the throne of Britain. Associating Jacobitism with modern Scottish left wing (mostly republican) nationalism is absolutely bizarre.

[@BeatPatrol2024]

In the 80s there seemed to be many "nationalist" teachers. They were very honourable, and did not try to indoctrinate. They just allowed us the freedom to explore the options. Unionist teachers were much less subtle. They were bullies, obsessed with the "royals", flags and military. I don't know how it is now, but it doesn't matter. The Independence cause is dead. Scotland has conceded...and the "scottish government" have become the enemies of The Highlands. The "NC500" disgrace is their doing. They have done nothing to protect our communities, our land, our people, our culture. Our homeland is now an open sewer. I will leave my home, where my ancestors have lived for hundreds of years. We were crofters. Now we are expected to be exhibits in a "safari park". I will not miss Scotland. The country is cowardly, pathetic, and stupid !

[@bailey3209]

Only just discovered your channel last month and it's been great, this was a great listen and I look forward to many more

[@ronan7695]

“Theyre not actually classical liberals” Why do I sense a subtle dig at Dave Rubin? 😂

[@markcutts383]

There was a Baroness on TV this morning ( a Tory) and she was described as the Minister for Loneliness. Forty plus years of Neo Liberalism and Thatcher and the atomisation of the working class and we now have a Tory led Ministerial Department for it. Ironically the ' Working Class ' in the so called Red Wall areas haven't worked since Thatcher wrecked the place in the eighties. Blair et al didn't help either and along comes Corbyn and the MSM -the net - and unfortunately a lot of the ex working class decided to vote Tory or in many instances UKIP in order to get Brexit Done. Whilst the anti Corbyn Labour MPs preferreda No Deal Brexit to a Corbyn government - which as we are witnessing the effects of now is unforgivable. Time for De - selections as this is the only way the PLP careerists will know that the membership is in charge. The thing ( as Frankie said ) in the seventies was literally seeing the physicality of the actions on TV each night up to the end of The Miners Strike in the eighties. After they were defeated that witnessed physicality ended. The age of the internet suits the PTB. It, as opposed to real people protesting - striking is managable at the push of a button or removal from Twitter/KZbin and Facebook for the deliverers of information and mis-information. It's almost as if they can make you not exist as a human being digitally.

[@Darklion2077]

I’m a simple man, I see Frankie Boyle’s name I click

[@Notveryimpressed]

Socialism is for everyone.

[@kevinwildgust4135]

Wow frankie u lost me

[@tosinquesiton8281]

@Jai Pennycuick What is socialism to you? You do know that all developed countries have some sort of mixture between socialism and capitalism? I guess if an out of control fire or a flood ever starts in your area, you can just block the services and remind them how simple they are. As a complicated, superior, being- you do not need their help.

[@Sam-lr9oi]

I saw Frankie and Ash in a thumbnail and was like "wtf how'd I miss this"

[@johnnock6685]

@Darth Pepe National sosialism of Nazi Germany !

[@hereas1]

Excellent interview, the kind of discussions we have with family and friends, stimulating and enjoyable.

[@patcampton9799]

Some of us boomers are supporting you , tyskysour. Cut us a bit of slack please.

[@Pamaracas]

Wonderful interview. Thanks! A little constructive technical feedback, if I may. Using a compressor on the mix would make it more comfortable to listen to with headphones. I had to turn up the volume to hear Frankie, but then it was uncomfortably loud when Ash was speaking. Cheers :-)

[@Radagast-]

"Show me a cynic and I will show you a bruised romantic," as Wilde put it. Well, someone else probably said it, but Wilde "acquired" it.

[@spartandud3]

The Empire wasn't covered in my history education in the mid to late 2000s. However my GCSE Teacher wouldn't entirely neglect it but it wasn't part of the syllabus. So when we talked about WW1 and the propaganda she would point out the hypocrisy with how we would claim "The German Empire was invading small defenseless nations and oppressing them" and that we did the same thing. There were more things but because there wasn't time to cover something not in the syllabus she couldn't cover them in detail. But was sure we had some awareness of the wider Empire and some of the stuff it was doing.

[@dylan8131]

This should be held up around the world as an example of what a good conversation sounds like. I couldn't help but purr to the rhythms, as these two floated thoughts to each other back and forth through ether. What a joy.

[@ParanoidAndroid1759]

If you like this sort of banter check out the podcast 'A World to Win' with Grace Blakeley also. 😎

[@dubtownman9508]

Grow a brain

[@Radagast-]

That sounds like the Wilde quotation... "Show me a cynic and I will show you a bruised romantic".

[@OrganicProcessBand]

Big up novara media and frankie. I for one gave up ketamine years ago!

[@patrickmccrum9706]

Love Frankie, Love Novara, Love this

[@BuddhistJihad]

simple as

[@MrRailjunkie]

Me too

[@donrayjay]

So I’m not optimistic enough to be pessimistic, that explains it

[@anicebitofbreadtomopupthel7144]

Ironically, your comment seems a bit pessimistic.

[@marvinstorm9153]

@@anicebitofbreadtomopupthel7144 Your comment seems stupid.

[@anicebitofbreadtomopupthel7144]

@@marvinstorm9153 Your comment seems more stupid.

[@songsangnim]

Really enjoyed this interview. But, Id felt let down by Boyle during his seemingly 'balanced BBC employee' critiques of political leaders during Corbyns flawed era. When we already had the entire establishment punching left, his un-nuanced comments about Labour's handling of AS was really unhelpful, and as it turns out not substantiated. Things improved under Formby.

[@bengallup9321]

I like Frankie but part of me will never forgive him for platforming some of the most bad faith anti Corbyn talking points on his show.

[@CraigHetheringsting]

you know this is my thoughts exactly. Why take shots (bad faith shots) at a man pushing for the policies Boyle claims to be in favour of? So disappointing...

[@nzp8893]

Absolutely agree. I don’t know how much of that was down to editorial decisions at TG, but bad faith is the word

[@fatdaddy1996]

100%. Frankie Boyle sold his arse to the BBC. It was unforgivable, fuck him!

[@rickymurraymusic]

@@fatdaddy1996 And someone who has very strange policies on blocking people on Twitter. There's tons of people, famous and complete unknowns, who have have never had interactions with him, but have been blocked nonetheless. Some weird algorithms going on.

[@craigusmaximus3675]

😭

[@beerd67]

Love Frankie's family history. I'm from Donegal parents too. Inishowen stock.

[@phafid]

I wish I can have a paid subscription of unfiltered content from Frankie Boyle. I would sign a legal statement that if I talk about it outside of the community, I will go to jail. Just like in fight club. Dying for his "theory"

[@DiarmuidOhibicin]

Great interview, Ash and Frankie. Nevertheless, Frankie, I'm still angry with you for putting Jeremy Corbyn down during the run up to the UK GE.

[@lfc6times]

I canf forgive him. Boyles a phoney. Probably scared of losing his slot on the BBC

[@MrRailjunkie]

Maybe Frankie realised Corbyn was a weak unelectable leader, shame Corbyn didn't realise & step down a lot sooner.

[@zakpullen8113]

@@MrRailjunkie you know thats not true surely?

[@lfc6times]

@scott matthews Your as funny as an orphanage burning down.

[@BigHenFor]

And Corbyn couldn't be criticised? Long before the GE in 2019, his diffidence undermined him. I don't think Corbyn ever really wanted to be Prime Minister. He saw his entry into the race for the Labour Leadership was to more of a PR stunt for the Left to remind everyone there was still a left wing in it. Nobody, inuding him thought he ever would win. (Sadly, I think that's a symptom of the disconnect in the Labour Party, and in the greater mainstream politics about how the public were really feeling.) Although he was a longstanding MP, I think he was less prepared for the job than he thought. And with the tendency everywhere for silo thinking, and socisk bubbles, he was thrust into a political arena that demanded a broader type of strategic thinking, and a media savvyness he was not used to needing. It's a bear pit, with hostility and manipulation everywhere. Being the leader the Labour Parlimentary Party wanted the least put him immediately into a defensive stance. He was being set up to fail but he just didn't know how or where the killing blow might come from. He was literally fighting an internal war as leader, and he surrounded himself with people he thought he could trust. Fair enough but, the forces arraigned against him, and their total adherence to Brexit would mean he could only fight a rear guard action. No ruler rules alone, and he spent most of his time persuading the right of his own party to back him. The right did not pipe down until he gave Teresa May a bloody nose in 2017. All that energy wasted on fighting his own party led to questionable policy decisions about Brexit, that were easier for him to make because he was a eurosceptic. In another time, Corbyn would have had a much easier time but because of Brexit his failure was more likely. He was the wrong man to deal with Brexit.

[@Irene-im8xi]

Watching Mrs Brown's Boys has the highest statistical correlation with having voted for Brexit.

[@toyotaprius79]

Wonder if blindboy can be given an interview in here..

[@CraigHetheringsting]

This

[@robbiemontgomery581]

Love Blindboys podcast X

[@paulmossmusique]

Good discussion

[@MrA5htaroth]

"The next 10 or 15 years will determine whether there is a future of life on earth." I seem to have been hearing comments like that for the last 30-40 years.

[@hallofmirrorsnetwork]

Doesn’t make it any less true. When/if we’re able to turn the ship around from the iceberg all the climate change deniers and Trumpain non-thinkers will cry ‘see there wasn’t an ice berg at all!’

[@fuckamericanidiot]

@@hallofmirrorsnetwork How do you hit an iceberg when it's already melted?

[@TI_Ted]

people like these two people change my mind

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

The trauma of colonialism can't be separated from the trauma of class. I'm getting back into the 1700s with my family history. I haven't found anyone who had a statue put up. I can't even find anyone who had a vote on any of the issues related to colonialism and slavery. There was no trickle down economy, so why are my ancestors responsible? The companies making money from slavery, rubber, tea... were legal businesses, in that time. They kept accounts and they weren't even ashamed of the way they made money. Certainly things can be better going forward but there isn't any shared historical guilt.

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

@Christopher James McCaul @Christopher James McCaul they weren't! I'm back into the 1700s in every branch of the family tree now. Most worked in agriculture, when they weren't in the workhouse. The Welsh side were coal miners and lead miners. Privilege only makes sense with social class. The slaving families in the UK were still being paid compensation until 2015. Chase them for compensation. Oh, wait... You can't dump your nasty guilt trip on them because people of that class don't have any conscience. So you're relying on the good 'ole working classes to take the blame. Where did you learn this crap? This is the sort of rubbish taught in private schools. You can't seriously believe that anyone believes the middle class version of history, anymore?

[@cundurangoballaragjohen106]

@@GlasPthalocyanine also, there should be working class solidarity, but the white working class are too racist because they believe in middle class politics from the 1950s! It's okay, in another 50 years the working class will be SJWs

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

@@cundurangoballaragjohen106 Why do you think white working classes are racist, or even more racist than the middle classes? I don't believe that's true. A lot of middle class people would like to believe that but that doesn't make it so.

[@lfc6times]

Todays comedians are as establishment as you could get. There are almost no high profile leftwing comedians around and even though Boyle has the persona of one , in my opinion he's not. We had one real go at having a truly left leaning government under Jeremy Corbyn. We're was Mr radical Boyle with his support? We got a bit of slightly Luke warm support but nothing more than tbat. The guests on his show "New world order are as weak as P. His favourite columnist seems to be the odious Marina Hyde. Frankie talks the talk..hes a bit of a phoney if you ask me.

[@anishkrishnan1299]

I think people have different lanes, maybe his lane is comedy and writing and not campaigning

[@TheYopogo]

Yeah. I think it's fair for a leftie comedian to not get all explicitly, westminster village, party political. They put it into their comedy, rather than stating it outright like an essay. And I think that it's more powerful that some people do one and some people do the other. People have different focuses, and that's good.

[@adampeters7947]

Alexi Sayle is the genuine article

[@josephwilson282]

Agreed. Take a look at Frankie Boyle's disgusting treatment of famous women like Amy Winehouse in the 00s. He bullied her for her looks while she was suffering from anorexia and bullimia and when the media was kicking her into the dirt, just because the media said it was trendy. Now he is an SJW because it's trendy talking about representation. He makes me sick, but he is typical of all modern comedians.

[@shortdrink873]

@@josephwilson282 or, you know, he’s gone through an intellectual transformation. I know I don’t think and act the way I did ten years ago, I’ve changed - hopefully for the better. So has he. His earlier material often missed it’s mark and was merely offensive. His work for most of the last decade has been extraordinarily on target, where but he manages to say the most awful shit while still being fundamentally empathetic and PC. I think it’s pretty clearly not a bandwagon thing.

[@mgrimble3975]

I used to love Frankie until he joined in with the media pile on Corbyn to get his mainstream career back on track, bollocks to him.

[@LieutenantSteel]

Corbyn was good but flawed in many ways- he was far too soft on his enemies and the Tories in public. Defeating them in opposition is one thing but if it's not visible or noticeable the majority of people won't know or care about it.

[@LambsyLamb]

Yeah I'm not big on the Corbyn bashing or the supposed massive antisemitism in the Labour party. I'm yet to see any antisemitism especially from Corbyn!

[@saintdon4461]

frankie probably didnt want to be an outcast with his unfunny comedian/celebrity chums ...

[@TheCalmack]

Haven't seen the David Graeber theory Frankie Boyle touched on - but definitely recommend Rudolf Rocker - Nationalism and Culture He's a German philosopher who is writing about the relationship between the state and culture during and just after the rise of the third Reich, in which he had to flee Germany and ended up becoming something of a star in the Jewish anarchist scene in London. The book is fantastic, passionate and it sounds like he makes much of the same points that Frankie touched on, albeit possibly with more depth (he looks at the romanticism in Germany during the Napoleon years in the middle of the book, and whilst he does make the point that the state/culture are opposite forces at many times in the book, he actually links the romantic ideas of a "perfect past before the Napoleon", and the "French yoke" with the early history of nationalism).. I think this is still very relevant today, and can be seen in simple phrases like "take my country back", popular amongst the fash Rudolf Rocker grew up in a Catholic boarding school (orphanage?) and after a few escape attempts was successful and ended up joining a travelling circus. A true anarchist even in childhood!

[@KuyVonBraun]

Dayum how did I miss this, my crush Ash & my spirit animal Frankie ✊🏻💜

[@lindsaygrant3350]

Refreshingly educated, insightful, balanced and expansive. love it!

[@mezzmezzrow426]

Very interesting discussion, thank you. However, without hopefully abandoning all optimism, these pseudo-intellectual debates do come across as a bit banal at times. Too many generalisations and mediaspeak.

[@dfgdfg_]

⬆️

[@julesb4887]

Excellent interview. Thanks Ash and Frankie x.

[@strongman90kg]

Frankie talked about a process of testing his material in a form that could be described as workshopping, to ensure those listening would understand the total form rather than just waiting for the punchline. As a person who had grown up with the tv program the comedians and found some of them funny I never matched the comedy I was exposed too, to any cultural or political sense that I may have had, which as a young man working on a demolition squad l thought culture was defined by what you drank, tenants lager or Mcewans 70 shilling. However, even though I found Charlie Williams funny when he made himself the punchline of his jokes I could not stand Jim Davidson’s chalky jokes even though I conformed to the racist stereotypes of 1970’s white working class. Despite this somehow I understood Davidson knew he was being offensive and a cunt. So to hear Frankie explain that he takes care in constructing his work may explain why I find that work both informing and of course funny.

[@howler6490]

Modern comics are not just memorising dozens of little gags...there is a lot of thinking involved nowadays. Frankie, jimmy carr, mark steele, thinkers all.And not alone!

[@juliadavistodd8351]

Stewart Lee?

[@ollie2052000]

Maybe the next 5 years if humanity isn’t going to collapse, according to several very good professors of climate science.

[@lewa3910]

Fantastic interview, so happy to see Frankie on this show and that Ash is interviewing him

[@juliewake4585]

Quite a combination!

[@uniteddreamer]

Missed this. Nice interview.

[@billyneville8579]

Great work, Ash! Novara really providing some great output recently. Hope you reach the 100k subs mark soon

[@moshemankoff7488]

Worthwhile pointing out Frankie is neither a leftist nor an anti-racist. He weaponizes antisemitism and insults people's appearance.

[@jackoward1]

anyone catch the name of the person Frankie mentions at 18:26? It sounds like Laurence something, but i can't figure it out

[@joesmall4118]

Laurence fox

[@ChickenNugNugz2]

Im gonna have to add ketamine and Fisher to the Amazon wishlist now.

[@gweilo965]

So disappointed in frankie. Absolute melt

[@NiallReeder]

This was a really good interview you should have him on again?

[@GaryParris]

Excellent interview and discussion. Really great

[@CarlyonProduction]

This is actually brilliant content

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Hierarchy is also heavily informed by class in the British context.

[@pseudonayme7717]

Not just informed by. When the Queen's cousin can become PM before ever having had any relevant jobs prior, one could easily argue that class IS the entirety of our hierarchy.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

@@pseudonayme7717 Very good point. And the bitter irony is that 40 years of the deregulated "free" market has returned our country to its traditional class structure (Historian David Harvey argues that it was entirely deliberate) .....

[@factstrumpprejudice6740]

. Accepting being governed in the first place is the radical (root) question.

[@arnedomi]

Absolutely amazing discussion, thanks!👍

[@gaetanboyer]

Thanks for the flowing and insightful chat. It's striking to hear Frankie speak that there's no point in nihilism as a concept as the end of the world is coming up soon for real. Why then undermine XR for banging out this oncoming reality because of how you compartmentalize the people who are seen to represent this message. Like you say Ash communication can give us hope, who cares where it comes from if it gets us acting about our future before it's too late and nihilism becomes our reality..

[@jascu4251]

I think I'd argue here that we have to consider strategy, and certain actions taken by XR have have been counter-productive. Its difficult to get things right all the time of course, and it depends on your position but, for example, what do you think about the XR action in that tube station last year (Stratford? Canning Town? I forget which)

[@mikehammond9600]

Great conversation, thank you to both.

[@estebancomulet]

Two of my favourite people. Ash and Frankie = nice!

[@gaz9957]

As a fellow Scot and SNP voter I can totally understand Frankie's thinking with regards to the SNP. They're not far left enough for me either and I think we both view the SNP as a vehicle towards a more left/progressive Scotland, because that kind of politics doesn't feel possible within a UK framework. I'd really like to hear his thoughts on the fate of the SNP should they achieve their ultimate aim of delivering independence for Scotland?

[@madeleineswords704]

Great interview thankyou

[@Mjhavok]

Can we do a kickstarter to get poor Frankie a better webcam?

[@thorinbane]

ASH the complete package. Salut from a fellow communist in Canada.

[@alanfontaine586]

Two people who have disappointed me, Ash on Julian Assange,Frankie on Jeremy Corbyn

[@HousePeople]

Just curious, what did she say about Assange? Or can you point to a source. Thanks

[@alanfontaine586]

@@HousePeople It was her attitude really basically joining in with the MSM journalists mocking his situation

[@HousePeople]

@@alanfontaine586 ok thanks 👍

[@helenswan705]

Do try Alexei Sayle on labour in general and Kier Starmer in particular. His recent podcasts

[@NewMessage]

I'm glad this video filmed with two 360P webcams was uploaded at 1080P.

[@jamesmckenna8092]

Great interview, thanks Ash and Frankie 🕊

[@RoyceMunday56]

What a thought-provoking interview. Thank you both... I only wish I understood more. Point me at anything you'd consider useful, please.

[@stuartmartin9245]

Does anyone know the book Frankie mentions about 10mins on British history which was tuckd away in the music section? I cant seem to catch it...

[@gophercure-self]

Akala - Natives: Race and Class in the Ruins of Empire

[@stuartmartin9245]

@@gophercure-self superb thank you 👍

[@12theotherandrew]

Ash, please stop boomer-bashing. We are not a homogeneous group. Many of us have spent our lives and continue to work for the common good, green issues, socialist politics. Your attitude is alienating support.

[@moonogi]

what's the book he mentions at 10:05 ?

[@raoulmontefiore4803]

'Natives' by Akala?

[@donrayjay]

Who is Frankie talking about when he says right wing comedians who say different things online than on the BBC?

[@pseudonayme7717]

Since being right wing is innately contradictory, take your pick.

[@johnthorburn1913]

Jim Davidson.

[@JayeshPatel-ek5ou]

Frankie got a bit defensive about the 'punching down' question. I think he knows some of his previous work probably didn't go through the workshop filtering process that he spoke about.

[@cundurangoballaragjohen106]

Do you have a timestamp of when that is?

[@craig1442]

What was the history book Mr. Boyle references around 10 minutes in?

[@ConJmcd2]

Natives by Akala. I would highly recommend snapping it up.

[@craig1442]

@@ConJmcd2 thank you 👍

[@paznewis107]

Good chat. Thanks for this ya pair of belters. Xx

[@MrDyl666]

Frankie is an example of how you can have comedy that makes you wince at how cutting it is while still having solid politics

[@mvick7king]

Yeah exactly mate, just check out his Harvey price joke it’s hilarious the way it insults disabled children 😂😂

[@MrDyl666]

@@mvick7king I obviously don't appreciate his older comedy. Its his current stuff I like

[@bettyjones2614]

Frankie Boyle is correct yet again, yes we are on borrowed time, I actually feel frustrated when someone says Solidarity at the end of the message in the same way people automatically say take care like its the equivalent of a verbal full stop! So perhaps we should be saying Solidarity in death?

[@FlummoxedCartwright]

Great interview but not sure I'd describe Bath as a monoculture compared with vast majority of the South West. Other than Bristol or maybe Plymouth it's probably the most diverse place there is. We have an afro-Caribbean community that has existed since Windrush and beyond that, apart from tourists, lots and lots of EU migration and a very international student population from both universities makes it pretty diverse.

[@MohamedIbrahim-gn2fr]

What’s the name of the book Boyle mentions about the history of Britain?

[@Deedee-ee1sg]

Ash, can you STOP assuming older people are well-off! Millions of us still rent and had tough working lives often in low-paid jobs. We didn't lead luxe lifestyle like many of your gen do! When you constantly stereotype older people as rich you just sound like Jeremy vine who always assumes everyone is just like him, white, middle-class and privileged!

[@mikemurray2027]

That's right, five decades of broke. Most regular income was pocket money.

[@LieutenantSteel]

The entire point of her saying that is that *on average* older people are well off- precisely because, statistically, people who have more money live longer than poorer, working class people. This class divide means that a majority of older people are better off because those of us with less wealth do not live as long!

[@paul_j_b]

I think it's a misinterpretation to take it as a personal attack; we can have a discussion about the legitimacy of the word "boomer" as a term of art, but it's demonstrably true that the share of wealth held by today's 20-40 year olds is 3% - seven times less than the 21% the boomer generation enjoyed at the same age

[@seadkolasinac7220]

Sorry but look at home ownership with older generations compared to the young now. There’s no argument. Young people these days are significantly worse off - objectively. In the 1970s you could just walk outside and get a job anywhere, or buy property easy with the mortgage boom in the 80s. Those kind of opportunities just don’t exist anymore.

[@itsspoodini]

@@seadkolasinac7220 we've boomed in population and all the houses have been bought to make profit. Life has advanced greatly in the last 30 years. Seems that people believe that anyone that votes left just want to take everyone's money away, but the reality is we want a fairer society.

[@acehand5890]

Fantastic interview, very insightful, interesting and engaging.

[@joelo3527]

love Frankie Boyle, no one can go bleaker

[@dirkdiamondify]

This is absolutely A-list, 5-star stuff. Sane, balanced, rational, nuanced. How rare is that.

[@harbobs]

Frankie Boyle is one of the greatest thinkers of our time

[@joem7922]

Love the new accent Frankie. Was that included in the BBC contract?

[@CM-eg3gl]

5 years ago, Frankie would have ripped this one apart; now, he's grovelling to her and her ridiculous ideas.

[@paul5899]

The only reason Scots vote SNP is they are offering independence. Once independence is achieved then the votes are up for grabs. And yeah they may be centre left/centre but they are a bastion of progressiveness compared to the Conservative party who England votes for and will vote for for another decade at least.

[@froggyfootball7572]

the SNP were known as tartan tories for millennia.

[@paul5899]

@@froggyfootball7572 aren’t anymore. Better than the English who vote for the actual Tories 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@froggyfootball7572]

@@paul5899 thats because they are political chameleons, opportunists who will morph into whatever they think will win them votes. right now that is the woke movement, so they're not only jumping on the bandwagon, they're driving it.

[@jonash154]

Great content, Ash. Really good to see Frankie on here.

[@RapidBlindfolds]

reactionaries: frankie boyle is too anti-PC the left will get too triggered and cancel him 😱😱 novara media: 🗿

[@nicktaylor5264]

Oh that's ok - I'm in this facebook group for left-wing teens, and they (in their own way) cancelled Novara Media for hosting an interview from someone who suggested that cancel-culture might not be a good way of forming the broad coalitions that the left needs to win.

[@BigHenFor]

You speak as cancel culture is a new thing. It isn't. And it's ironic that the Conservatives are trying to stamp it out. Honestly guys, you obviously haven't read the Bible. It's full of Cancel Culture, and the only differences from then until now is that ending the life of a person who offends those with more social and cultural power than the offender was legitimate. Now, other than terrorists, the weapons of choice are the Internet, with the most sociopathic trying to destroy the offender's economic and personal life seeming legitimate to the perpetrators. So, humans evolve slowly, and their culture truly evolves most slowly of all. So this talk of Cancel Culture is disengenuous, and as politicised as the topic itself. The hope that in the 21st century that we would have lost our inherent tribal traits is a forlorn one. It's just being exploited more efficiently through social media.

[@RapidBlindfolds]

@@BigHenFor i'm mocking hand waiving around 'cancel culture'. about how people imagine novara media would 'cancel' frankie boyle yet here he is. i agree its overblown

[@marvinstorm9153]

Hopefully. He's too smart for them.

[@alexandralimadimitrijevic836]

Love this conversation.

[@0Wednesdayschild0]

That was excellent, thank you

[@Alex0Hamilton]

Great to see these points put so clearly.

[@UlteraBurns]

Them discussing the right's tactics is extremely interesting. Its kind of a catch 22 where debating them gives them a platform but not debating them makes you look like you can't. As a left of center person myself I think we need a hard left swing in the UK. This would mean that the left needs to pick a focus. Something easy to understand and fight for then, debate that. For example, the strikes happening at the moment. It is something that is easy to understand, relevant to everyone in the country and its mere existence exposes the lies in the mainstream media as almost everyone knows somebody who works in a sector that is striking. It is almost a rally call for the left and they need to capitalise on it. Other discussions happening on the left (Immigration, equality for minorities, climate change, etc.) should be shelved until the left gets some kind of footing in this country, as all the other things drives people away, myself included. The left are like the doom sayers and no one likes that. I understand all these topics are important but its that old saying "If a tree falls and no ones there to hear it, did it even make a sound?" The strikes are a perfect thing to rally around, especially with the well spoken, reasonable and confrontational to lies leaders of these unions.

[@nickbrooks3054]

A fantastic interview,thank you Ash and thank you Frankie.

[@trevorcharlesmorgan]

As socialists we have to be optimists, despite all of the failed socialist and communist regimes, millions thrown into poverty not to mention famine and mass murder we have to remain optimistic that one day socialism will work and it will all have been worth while!

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

Oh buddy, do you really get all your information on Socialism entirely from people who hate Socialism? But naive mate.

[@benwallis4729]

Super interesting discussion!