Everything About Kris's SOUL in Deltarune Chapter 2

[@yellowsnake7300]

*WARNING: NO SANE PERSON SHOULD READ THIS WORD DUMP CLICK READ MORE AT OWN RISK* *THIS IS PART ONE OF A THREE PART COMMENT AND ALL THE COMMENTS ARE LONG AF* So... about that whole Chara thing... being a long time Undertale fan is hard. Because when you’ve been here since the beginning... When you’ve been along for the ride as all the canon content was discovered... When you’ve watched as the theories were crafted and deconstructed and crafted again until they became commonly accepted in the fandom... You get to this point. The point where years later, when new canon appears after ages of breaking down the old content from every angle imaginable, you try looking back to the theories and obscurities you at one point thought nothing of... and you start to realize just how _much_ of it there is. You start scratching your head like, “wait, HOW did I get all this stuff again???” Like getting back into algebra after not doing it for years. At the time, you could recite the formulas without even thinking about it. You understood the logic of how to get the answer and why you had use specific formulas to arrive at specific conclusions. But then when you look back on it after not doing it for a few years, your old algebra notebook might as well be Egyptian hieroglyphics. You start wondering how the hell that incomprehensible gibberish was actually produced by your brain. More then that, you wonder how the hell it actually made SENSE to you at one point. That’s what it’s like for me when it comes to the older Undertale theories and how they might tie into deltarune. Like, whenever I try to theory craft, I’ll try to use the old commonly accepted theories as the base line for new deltarune theories to start from. These foundation theories include: the lost voice in the files, the meta of timelines, narrator Chara, or anything at all having to do with Darker Yet Darker Very Very Interesting Blaster Master *_GÆšTëR_* and his skeletal relatives. I find myself having to go back and justify the foundation of my arguments because I’ll lose sense of my own logic halfway through. Like “wait, why am I certain the narrator is Chara again? Is there actually concrete evidence of Gaster being a skeleton that is not circumstantial? What is the actual gameplay and thematic effect of LV and EXP? Wait, is Chara even their canon name? What was the actual timeline of events from the war of humans and monsters to when Frisk fell? How much time canonically separates those events? How much time separated when Asriel found the first human to when the first human died? At what point did the monster’s migration across the underground happen; before, after, or while the first human was with the Dremmurr’s? How old were Chara and Asriel when they carried out their plan? How long after the war of humans and monsters was that? Were all six of the fallen human’s confirmed to be children? How the fuck do Toriel and Asgore age and how is that related to weather or not Frisk is their biological child again??? Was Asriel born during, before, or after the war? Was he born underground or on the surface? If underground, how long after the war? Wait, which characters in Undertale have seen the surface and participated in the War and who was born underground? How old would the characters who were a part of the war have to be?” I get lost because so many well thought out theories have been developed and painstakingly pieced together over years by an army of fans way too invested in this universe. But now these theories are so well established in my mind as a part of my understanding of Undertale lore and how Undertale works, I can’t really separate the canon from the theory without rethinking my entire understanding of the game. This was fine before because I knew how to personally go back and verify why I believed certain theories were plausible based on my own observations from the game, but now the theories I rely on are so far removed from the canon content I can no longer navigate my way back through the rabbit hole of why I chose to believe these things to be true. This was a rabbit hole that I once could run through forward and backward with my eyes closed. But now I’ve been so deep in that hole for so long that I’ve forgotten how to navigate my way through it back to concrete canon evidence from the game that justifies my assumptions on how the Undertale universe works. For old fans, the rabbit hole of lore is nearly impossible to retrace your steps in to sort out what is confirmed or not, or to confirm how widely accepted theories are justified. Even though they know they must be. Because you know the community accepted these theories because they were well thought out and had convincing evidence that took years to gather. But even so, you can no longer remember what that evidence *is.* And it’s nearly impossible to remember unless you never stopped theory crafting since the height of Undertale popularity. (as in, you never stopped taking algebra). And for newcomers that are just now getting into all this, there is such a mountain of lore that the fandom has extracted and inferred from that one tiny game over the years that unpacking it seems nearly impossible. Catching up new fans in a way so they can catch up with the older fan’s line of reasoning, which is necessary to comprehend just the _foundation_ of what we are basing all of our discussions on, would almost need to take as many years as it took old fans to develop that line of reasoning in the first place (exaggerating but you get it). That’s why I really appreciate videos like the Gaster one you shouted out in your video. Because I feel like we can get so deep into theories and lost in our dusty old notebooks full of red tape connections that we miss very obvious insinuations that are stated plainly in the cannon. Just like with the save thing you mentioned.

[@yellowsnake7300]

Almost everybody missed that and the implications that it has. That’s because when the chapters were released, we all reached to connect it the mountain of theories we have been painstakingly developing and saving up for years. The fruits of our labor from squeezing every drop of lore we could from the one canon source we had. Of course, when new canon was added we wanted to add to the pile, not knock it down and start from the ground up. But by trying to tie the new content into our previous assumptions, we fail to see the actual direct connections that the new canon has to the old canon. In the eyes of the fan base, the original game is buried so deep under the mountain of theories we have built on top of it, it’s hard to reach back and see the actual connections between the canon games. Now, I’m not saying that Undertale and deltarune have the same canon. These are different games with different stories, and their worlds work in different ways. But the game Undertale might provide key hints for how the world of deltarune works since it is its “soul successor” .... Okay that choice of words was not intentional I was just trying to say that even without direct connections, deltarune is a spiritual follow up, which is supported by the fact that it is intended for those that played Undertale first. Basically, they have the same essence. .... Anyway, because the fan base is focused on expanding their theories, they are not looking back at Undertale itself with the context of *_new canon._* I feel like we need to forget everything we think we know about the game. All presumptions, theories, widely accepted headcanon’s, all of it needs to go out the window. Leave us with only the game Undertale and the two chapters of deltarune. Look only at the canon we are given without assuming anything that is not explicitly stated. That may reveal things that are otherwise overlooked by most of the fandom. So... the first fallen child. Came up with a plan to die by eating flowers. Asriel would then absorb their soul. Then, with the power of a monster and human soul, which is the least amount of power necessary to cross the barrier, Asriel would be the first monster to ever cross the barrier. The Being that contained the soul of both the fallen human child and the monster child chose to go to the human’s hometown. They had planned to kill at least six humans, take their souls, and return to the barrier to break it and free the rest of the monster race. They intended to free the rest of what The Being thought of as family. The Being was willing to come into existence at the sacrifice of two children in order to save what they recognized as their people. However, the monster child was a gentle soul. Even though The Being had come this far, because of the gentle soul within them, they could not bring themselves to kill others. The soul of the human child within The Being was willing to kill humans for the sake of freeing all monsters. It was what they died for, and what they entrusted their monster brother to help them carry out. They were members of the royal monster family. Their actions would free their people at the cost of their life. They had no hesitation in their willingness to kill humans, as the experience that drove them into the dangerous monster realm was related to them holding hate in their heart for humanity. With the two souls within them in conflict, The Being was locked in a standstill. This allowed the humans of the human child’s old village to fatally wound The Being, despite them being incredibly powerful. The humans assumed The Being had killed the corpse of a child they held in their arms. After the fatal wound, The Being decided to return to the monster realm empty handed. They had already fallen down and were simply waiting to turn to dust. They made it as far as their family garden before they could hold on no longer and turned to dust, right on top of the first golden flower that ever grew in that garden. When it is a monster’s time to die, they “fall down.” Their body is still together. After some time, the body turns to dust. In Undertale, monster funerals consist of sprinkling the dust of a dead monster on an object, preferably one that meant a lot to them. Through that, a monster’s essence can live on in that object. The Being that had the soul of a human and monster child had their dust fall on a golden flower. The human child’s favorite kind. The thing that killed the human child was also a flower, and by killing the human child The Being was able to come into existence. The Being, the one who was a vessel for two souls, that of a human and monster child, That Being’s essence was able to live on in that golden flower. Alphys, the monster royal scientists, injected that same flower with determination so that it would have a will to live. That flower gained the power to save and load the world. They used this power to befriend everyone. Then they got bored of that and killed everyone. Then they got bored of that. They explored every nook and cranny the world had to offer using the determination they were artificially forced to have. All monster souls disappear either during or after death. Human souls persist long after death. All of the dead human souls in the underground still exist. (These are all facts of the game. There is no assumption in these statements. This is all canon. These are the backstory events that serve as the setting for story of Undertale. But now I have a question. What happened to the first fallen human’s soul?) After The Being with the two children’s souls turned to dust, Asgore swore to destroy all humans that fell down in the underground to free monsters and destroy humanity using the power of human souls. Toriel left after this declaration. She took the body of the human child from the coffin in the basement and brought it back to the ruins, where she buried the body under a bed of golden flowers. Those ruins were the place where the human child first fell down, where Asriel first met them after the fall since he was hanging around the area. The ruins were also the place that the Dreemurr family of three lived in before the child came. (Two big one small dining chair. Eventually we left the ruins, what was then called Home. We braved cold, swamp, and flame to reach New Home, where there was a family of four with two small chairs and two big) They moved to New Home in the new castle after the first human fell down. Six fallen humans later, the 8th human, Frisk, falls down on top of the grave of the first human child. (This is the same area all the other humans fell through according to Toriel as she checks everyday to see if anyone fell down from that spot and tried to stop each of the six humans at the ruins before they could go on and be killed by Asgore. She has been locked in the ruins for at least a century. So at least a century had passed between the beginning of the game and the death of The Being) Narration for the inner monologue always refers to the protagonist as YOU. _(What happened to the first human’s SOUL)_ Frisk’s name is only revealed and used in game after a true pacifist run. _(Human souls do not disappear after death)_ Only in a true pacifist route is there a disconnect between the narrator and the protagonist, where the narrator remarks that Frisk seems to disagree with their descriptions of how Frisk reacts to subjects in the true lab. _(All six of the other human’s souls still exist)_ The narrator only narrates using “I” in a genocide route. _(There are a total of 8 humans that have ever gone to the underground. We should have 8 souls. We only have 7)_ The name the player chooses for the fallen human is only ever used by other characters or in the narration in a genocide route. _(The red heart soul sprite is named _OUR_SOUL_ in Undertale)_ “I” is only ever used in the narration to refer to the first fallen child. “You” in the narration only refers to Frisk. (Not the player. Evidence: "It’s you!" "What? You didn’t say that?" "It’s just you, Frisk.") _(Where did the human child’s soul go? Who does the red sprite soul belong to? Do souls have to have only one owner?)_ We can thus assume the narrator in Undertale is the first fallen human. The save file in Undertale belongs to the first fallen human, the name displayed being whatever the player named them, not Frisk’s name. The stats menu also belongs to the first human, displaying whatever the player chose to name them. The stats menus and save file only ever show the first human’s name, never Frisk, no matter what route you play In deltarune, the narration only ever uses “you” so far. (The first save file belongs to Kris, which is then overridden by the name that belongs to “the creator” _the player._ In the over world, the stats menu belongs to kris and is in their name) Some of deltarune’s narration is in parentheses, some is just plain text. (The town of recruits is named after the name the “creator” _the player_ chooses for themselves)

[@yellowsnake7300]

All of these observations from both games lead me to think some things about both. For Undertale: In Undertale, the narrator is the first fallen child. The narrating first child refers to themselves as “I” and Frisk as “You”. The name of “I” in Undertale and in the save file/stats menu is the name the player chooses. Frisk name is never displayed in a save file or stat menu (unless you are in hard mode) What is the significance of the saving/loading system and stats seemingly not belonging to the playable Frisk, but to whatever the first human child is named? What happened to the first human’s soul? Who does the red soul in Undertale belong to? Can a soul belong to more than one person? For deltarune: The name of the recruit town in deltarune and of the overriding save file in the dark world is the name the player chooses. The name in the stats menu is Kris’s name What is the significance of the stats menu and save files seemingly belonging to different beings? Is there a notable difference between parentheses narration and the plain text narration in deltarune? If so, what is it and why is a distinction being made? Who does “you” in deltarune narration refer to? Who is the narrator in deltarune? And across both games I have only one question: Are the questions and observations across these two games related to each other in any way shape or form? Will answering the questions for Undertale be at all relevant to my understanding of deltarune? I don’t know what this means, or how to answer these questions. I’m not smart enough to connect any of these things together. I just thought I would share my observations of the games, and the questions these observations raise in my mind. If you got anything out of this word dump of nonsense feel free to use it. Maybe you can find a topic for future videos in this somewhere. P.s.: (Kris... does this sometimes). Why is everyone assuming Toriel is referring to Kris ripping out their soul here? Even if Kris had done that before, why would their mom know about it? And what about Kris disappearing in the bathroom for a long time would make Toriel assume “oh, he must have ripped out his soul.” There is no evidence Kris has shared the nature of their soul with Toriel, or that she knows about the soul in the first place. All Toriel knows about her kid is that they are a troubled loner, have difficulty getting out of bed (something she won’t actually force them to do if they insist on skipping school), likes to pull pranks, and has a designated knife that she knows belongs to them. Given this, I think it’s more likely that the line does not mean, oh, Kris shambles around without a soul sometimes, and more like, oh yeah, Kris kinda disappears sometimes. Because that’s all Toriel knows Kris to have done in that scene. She doesn’t know they pulled out the soul, she only knows that they disappeared for some reason. And as an Angsty Teen, pulling out a soul is not necessary for someone to sneak out of the house without letting your parents know. That being said, I have no idea why that wagon appeared to have been through quite a few crashes, but I’m not going to assume anything without more evidence. Because until evidence is provided otherwise, Kris having previously ripped out their soul and thrown it in there is not the only option. It is possible, but plenty of other things are just as possible until more canon content is provided. Tfw your comment is so long KZbin forces you to split it into three parts fuck my life honestly I’m going to bed. I would delete this but I spent too much time on it 😑 Edit: Hello everyone who has read this far down. If you plan to continue reading the rest of the replies, I made a google document that contains this entire comment thread. I know the KZbin format can be hard to look at, so the document was made so that you can read in a way that is easier on the eyes. You can either click the link and keep reading there, or just continue scrolling down here. Or you could stop reading here and move on with life, which is probably the most sane option. This link will take you to a video on my channel, the document is in the description: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmbKeHyqYpypjdk

[@yellowsnake7300]

Next day rambling, but something that annoyed me was when the fandom would insist that lets players use a different name for the fallen human in a genocide route then the one they used in a normal route. It gives the impression that the fallen human in those two timelines are different. They are not. They are the same. No matter what route you play, in order to get the intended connotations for the story, the name you choose for the fallen human must be the same no matter what route you play. Because no matter what route you play, that name refers to the same fallen human, the first one that had Asriel as a brother. That name belongs to the same character and was chosen by the same player no matter what route you proceed with. Changing the name depending on the route gives the impression that you are referring to different characters, and that impression is false. It always refers to the same human child, and it was chosen by the same player that gets to do whatever route they feel like as many times as they feel like. Oh, that reminds me! When flower speaks directly to the screen after reloading in wake of a pacifist run, he refers to the one he is talking to by the first fallen human’s name, that being whatever the player chose it to be. He knows that the one he is talking to has the power to reset time and begs them not to. He calls them by the first human’s name. The name the player chose. He is talking to the being that has control of the timeline. He is not talking to Frisk, and he is aware of that fact (let Frisk be happy. Let Frisk live their life). So, is he talking to the first fallen child, or the player? Or is it both? Or are they one and the same? (“Of course, of course they are the same”) was Toby’s intention for the player to name the fallen human after themselves? Because I know that’s what I did. Flower is talking to the one in control of the timeline. He is not talking to Frisk. He calls that person by the first human’s name. The first human’s name is whatever the player chose it to be. Is the first human in control of the timeline? Controlling the timeline means saving loading and resetting. The player is the one in control of that. This is a fact we know for certain, because the player is us. That means the player controls the timeline. In Undertale, who represents the player? Who do we name? Whose name is on the stats and save? Is that person Frisk? No. That person is the first fallen child, the one that the player grants a name. The name we choose for ourselves. The name that the player is allowed to name whatever they want. The intention of letting us name the first fallen human by Toby is for the player to connect with the game and feel like they are a part of the story. It is the name that the player chose that is on the save, and the name the player chose that is on the stats. The player is made to believe this directly refers to them, because they are meant to feel like part of the story. But here’s the thing: it doesn’t. That name does not refer to a self-insert for the player. It refers to a preexisting character. One that has a past and a personality. Why does the player get to decide the name of a character, believing it to be their own name? Why is the player not allowed to do this in deltarune? Why is the human Kris, one that also has a past and personality, allowed to keep their name as a part of their identity, and why was the player led to believe that wouldn’t be the case at first? Why is the name for the vessel discarded and the claim made that the player cannot choose who they are declared, but then the name that was chosen for of the creator, the player’s own name, kept intact? Why is that name, the name that belongs exclusively to the player and that the player now knows for sure is not referring to an already existing character, shown on the save file but not the stats menu? Why does the save of an already existing character needed to be overridden in for this to happen? Why is the town named after the player and not Kris? Why is the difference between the player and Kris made so clear in this game, when in Undertale that fact was kept hidden? In Undertale, the player and the human children were also separate entities, but the player was led to believe they were one and the same. In deltarune, the fact that they are separate from the playable characters is made clear from the beginning. What made this clear was the fact that the player must choose two names, and the name that would have been for a character in the game was thrown out because the player is told they are not allowed to determine who these characters are, the player cannot change these character’s identities. Instead, for the first time in the canon, the player gets to use *their own name.* A name that belongs to the player and only the player, a name that it is made clear from the very beginning does not refer to any character in the game. It is meant for you and only you, the player. Then the question is, why does the player have a name for themselves that is exclusively referring to themselves in deltarune, but not in Undertale? Why in Undertale is the player allowed to choose the name of a pre-existing character when later in deltarune the player is explicitly told they are not allowed to do this? Why is the player allowed to name the first human, determining a part of that character’s identity? And what stopped the player from doing the same thing in deltarune? In both games, the player is a separate presence from the characters in the story. In both games, the player is directly involved with the story and a part of the story alongside all the characters. In Undertale, this fact is hidden. In deltarune, it is made clear from the opening sequence. Why? What role does the player have in the story? Well actually, that is a stupid question. We know what effect the player has on the story. Because... we are the player. We know what actions we take. When you play the game, you are the one who boots up the game, making it exist. You are the one that names the characters, saves and loads save files, and moves the heart soul in the bullet hells. These are actions us players do directly. There are also the actions we perform through the playable characters, like choosing what to interact with, making dialogue choices, choosing settings, equipping items, or deciding what party member does what. These are how the player interacts with the world, and we must have a playable character (a vessel, if you will) through which to perform these actions. But in both games, the character we use to perform these actions are not the same as the us the player, they exist independent of us. Because even our playable characters take actions beyond our control. Frisk, Kris, and Susie sometimes act outside player control. Especially Susie. It’s barely enough to say we play as her. Kris acts on their own a lot more subtly, but still fairly often. And even if the number of times can be counted on one hand, Frisk does as well. Mostly to turn and stare at the fourth wall. But what about the other actions the player can do? Saving, loading, stat menu, all the technical stuff that is not actually feasible to the characters. In Undertale, all that stuff is done under the name of the fallen human. In deltarune, it is done under our own name. In both games, these actions are done using a name that the player chooses. In both games, the meta and the lore are one and the same, and the actions we take in the real world that affect the game are all canon in-universe. The player and our actions are all a part of the narrative along with the characters. That’s why Undertale was such a personal experience for everyone that played it. It was THEIR experience. Just them and the game. Whatever choices or actions they took in the game as a part of the timeline they created is wholly their own, and they were truly a participant in that experience, not just an observer or a third party agent through which the characters can advance the plot. That’s why I think that game design, in terms of what direction Toby was trying to steer the player and what actions he intended the player to take, should be taken into serious consideration when theorizing about... whatever. Uh... I don’t really have a point, I just rambled... I’m talking in circles now. I don’t know what this all means, but I can’t stop thinking about it. But anyway, if you are going to use the “true name” Chara for the genocide route, I think you should also use it for a pacifist route and all the routes you may or may not take in between.

[@yellowsnake7300]

The only time the player is not in control of what Frisk does is when Frisk’s body moves on its own. This is the only time when we know for sure that we are not controlling Frisk. During those times? Who is in control of Frisk’s actions? These times happen rarely in Undertale, but Kris takes actions outside of player control far more often than Frisk did. Still, Frisk _did._ At least, their body did. Mostly during a genocide run, but a little bit also when you reset the game in a not True Reset. What do these actions the player doesn’t control mean? Also, doesn’t there seem to be a weird thing with the human vessels and names? In both games the player controls a human who already has their own name. In Undertale it’s Frisk, in deltarune it’s Kris. In both games, the player is led to believe that the name they choose will belong to the one they will play as but, in both games, this is later proven to be false. Both playable characters in both games have their own name already, one the player does not get to decide. So, in terms of their role in these stories, in this parallel between the two games Frisk=Kris. Not literally, but the role Frisk plays in Undertale is equal to the role Kris plays in deltarune. They are parallels of each other. In both games, the name the player thought they were giving to their playable character was assigned to someone else. In deltarune that someone else is the discarded vessel. In Undertale that someone else is the first human child. Does that mean, in terms of the role they play in these parallel stories, The First Human=The Discarded Vessel? Again, not literally being the same person but performing the same role in the story maybe? The weird thing is that deltarune adds a new name that Undertale didn’t have. A name made exclusively for the player. In Undertale this didn’t happen. In deltarune, the name of the player is on the save file. In Undertale, the name on the save file belongs to the first human. The similarity between these two parallel save names is that the player gets to decide what they are. The difference is that in deltarune, that name belongs to the player while in Undertale, that name belongs to the first human. There is also the name in the stats menu. In deltarune it is Kris. In Undertale it is the first human. This is completely different. One is named a predetermined name and the other is named something the player chose. The characters those names belong to also have don’t have the same narrative role in each game. By the way, I think deltarune’s party system teaches us that the stats listed under a name in the stats menu belong to whoever’s name is on that stats menu. Would that mean the stats in Undertale don’t belong to Frisk, but to the first human? The stats don’t belong to the playable character like it does in deltarune, but to the character the player chose the name of? That’s weird. What does any of this mean?

[@yellowsnake7300]

Honestly, it might be cool to do a character analysis on both Frisk and the first human. Not in terms of personality, but on their role in the story. I thought at first that might be pointless and irrelevant because expanding on the humans from the previous game won’t reveal anything about the new game, but now I’m not sure. Re-examining Frisk and the first human might reveal some things about the world of deltarune. What precedent does the relationship between Frisk, the first human, and the player set for the relationship between Kris and the player in detarune? What precedent does the nature of flower or the time the first human and Asriel’s souls shared a body set for soul vessels in deltarune?

[@PragmaticProsecutor]

Dude… I didn’t even realize that Kris “sleeping like a corpse” was a reference to the fact that the player wasn’t present during the timeskip, that’s genius

[@PragmaticProsecutor]

I ALSO forgot that Chara wasn’t technically the canon name of the fallen child in Undertale, man this video is making me think You know… isn’t the idea that normally you would give Chara your own name…

[@aturchomicz821]

@@PragmaticProsecutor Joel nooo😭😭

[@geckoanims]

​@@PragmaticProsecutor Well, when using "Chara" it says "The True Name"

[@ozmiumblimp]

​@@geckoanims 24:32 - 25:02

[@stannosaurus]

​@@PragmaticProsecutor Chara is short for character ofc (I'm sure u knew), so CHRIS would be the "Chara" of this game. A character with their own personality and wants, but unable to say or do anything because we have all control. We control them because we can control the human soul Chris was born with. Perhaps Chris is trying to regain full control over themself or maybe Chris is being controlled by not just us.

[@Melonposting]

Summary: Everyone asks “what’s Kris” but nobody asks “how’s Kris” :(

[@caligulasAquarius]

People do

[@caligulasAquarius]

You just did.

[@coraline2770]

@@caligulasAquarius Woosh

[@NetzachEnjoyer]

@@coraline2770 they were joking about the joke cringe

[@onigiri7722]

what da kris doin’?????

[@mekafinchi]

The "kris does this sometimes" has nothing to do with the tearing out their soul part they just turn on the water and jump out the window to go be a local cryptid

[@thewall4069]

In a town full of monsters, the only human must be the local cryptid

[@kescon3]

kris is possessed but they also just have IBS

[@princeofhyperdeath]

@Airi mage *they

[@SuperFanatic22731]

@@princeofhyperdeath STOOPID, Noelle is confirmed to be a she. (I think)

[@ashencometmom5291]

@@SuperFanatic22731 we're talking about kris

[@coreDesignix]

The simple fact of the matter is that Kris is a depressed teenager in a horribly fucked up scenario. As someone who was once a depressed teenager myself I can absolutely see myself taking similar actions to them if something showed up and started possessing me for so much of my day, and also suddenly magic was real. I would *absolutely* play it a bit risky to try and figure out what was going on and hold onto any amount of autonomy I could. Kris' whole town's wifi is out so they don't even have access to shady custom content for the Sims to vent that urge.

[@autumnyuki3744]

After reading your comment first thing that came out of my mouth was "why are you killing me" This comment went from Serious to relatable to funny so fast I think I got a little whiplash

[@BierBart12]

"Shady custom content for Sims to vent that urge" is such a violently specific thing, but I relate to it

[@pp-jt7mb]

Nevermind the depression part, I think everyone would shit their pants

[@xaan7458]

🥺😢💔🥀

[@KK-hd1jw]

Didn’t expect the sims thing, but that is so real- sometimes, you gotta let your toddlers stab sims to let out your frustration

[@dededeletethis9940]

I wanted to address the “kris still makes a fountain in snowgrave“ issue real quick. Like you said, giving kris a reason for creating a dark world on the normal route is easy. They want to have more adventures with their friends, maybe improve their relationship with their mom which doesn’t seem to be the best, easily explainable. But on snowgrave? That’s a bit tougher. My belief is that creating the fountain is a calculated risk on kris’ part. Kris may believe that further exploring the dark world may help them find a way to free themselves from our control. In addition, kris knows that the knight is still around (and yes, i am operating under the assumption that kris is not the knight, as i can see too many reasons against this), so they’ll inevitably be dragged into another dark world - but by making one themselves, they get to choose the playing field. This dark world is in kris’ own house, this is home turf. We can even see kris manipulating the environment before creating the fountain, like opening the door and turning on the tv. Kris wants the home field advantage. Finally, kris may believe that the risk of another snowgrave situation may be small with susie and toriel there. Susie is a rebel with a strong will, so she’d be tough to manipulate, and toriel is very stubborn, as shown by her continued distancing from asgore, so she’d also be hard for us to control. These two stand in strong contrast to noelle, who is about as spineless as you can get and thus easily manipulated. In short, kris does the same thing for two different reasons - on the normal route, kris makes a dark fountain to strengthen their bonds and have another adventure, but on snowgrave, kris wants the next adventure to be on their terms to minimize the risk of another noelle, another berdly. Two different thought processes with the same result - open a dark fountain at home.

[@InfiniteThePhantomJackal]

I like this intepretation.

[@zacharyperlee4179]

Yeah, this sounds awesome, and solves the whole 3rd entity conundrum if true

[@gurt3823]

It's also worth it to mention that Kris slashed Toriel's tires, prompting her to call the cops. Kris then opens the door when they fall asleep shortly after probably so that Undyne will notice and investigate, possibly bringing her into the main party. I know it's a crackpot theory but imagine how insane it would be to fight with Undyne instead of against her :)

[@Soulfire702]

@@gurt3823 She may not even be the same as Undertale Undyne tho. Think about that for a sec lol. 😇

[@android19willpwn]

@@Soulfire702 I mean, we've MET her in Deltarune. She's... very similar to how she was in Undertale.

[@stephen7587]

The biggest thing I noticed in Deltarune is how much it appears to be a coming of age story. Both chapters involve a character standing up to a corrupt or overbearing parental figure in order to assume a more independent and adult reality. Kris, by all evidence given, was a lonely kid with a reputation for being kinda weird and creepy. You get this from the room you wake up in being noticeably more barren and gloomy than Asriels, as well as numerous interactions in the game. Why are these things important? Simple. Your actions as the player are giving Kris a different approach to life. Just one day of control and Kris has a friend in Susie, went on a cool adventure, accomplished something even though it might not be in the "real world" This success in life continues in chapter 2, even in Snowgrave. The difference is, while Susie, Noelle, and Lancer gain independence and freedom, Kris sacrifices it to go on the ride with them. Kris was a lonely kid who now has friends and fun adventures... because of your control. That's a fair bit better than what we can gather from how life was before the player influence: Lonely, no accomplishments, no friends, brother is gone, most of the kids talk behind your back. Why not give up some control and escape into a dark world if it changes that? Frisk doesn't seem to have any backstory at all in Undertale. Just a kid who fell down a hole. Any reason? Running from a bad home? Looking for adventure? Just tripped on a rock? Narratively it doesn't matter. Frisk is just an avatar to represent the player and what they want to do, the only real action they take is telling you their name at the end of the pacifist run. Kris on the other hand has tons of interactions that paint a picture of what kind of kid they were before we came along, and it wasn't pretty. Did I mention Kris is in a broken home? And his only friend is gone from his life to college? Yeah that might play a role in why they're so eager to just... let someone dictate their actions. The scariest part is that even after snowgrave, Kris makes another dark world, presumably in an attempt to go through another adventure with you at the helm.

[@andrew_cunningham]

Pretty much what I would have said if I felt like extending the script for another 5 minutes, yeah. I lean toward "Kris is sad" being a more powerful plot point than most people realize.

[@blakecook9266]

So, in other words, you’d have a codependent relationship: Kris creates fountains in order for you to have an adventure, what you want out of the game, and you help Kris make friends with some members of your town, what they want. If this is the case, then the game will probably examine how uh harming people in order to make friends is probably bad. Also, while Kris may be continuing the deal, they don’t seem to be completely fine with it (see evidence that has been talked about for ages now). But, I doubt that the toy room fountain was created by Kris, since the story starts after that one is created, and Kris doesn’t seem to know about them before that point due to Kris involuntary stepping back when they see the closet dark fountain. Also also, the player doesn’t seem to be in complete control, only 99%. The player cannot control the tone of Kris’s voice, and Kris seems to be able to make a few movements outside of the player’s control, such as that involuntary backstep and the very voluntary removal of their soul. I don’t really know where the story will go, but I am excited to find out

[@yep4924]

Well I wouldn’t say Kris was completely lonely and passion-less. They used to play with Noelle and Dess alongside their brother, they played video games with Berdly alongside their brother, and sometimes they would visit the hospital to play the waiting room piano. It seems more-so that some event happened in their past that caused them to all of a sudden isolate themself and wind back from their friends and interests. Similar to how Noelle used to go on “daring adventures” with her sister, but now that Dess went missing, her ability to have fun is dampened by her mother, and things are different these days. (Maybe the reason why Kris and Noelle kinda drifted apart from younger childhood is for the same reason?? Hmm???) That was a little off topic but we aren’t just giving them that spark in their life, we just rekindling that spark that was broken for so long. Okay this is too long BYYEEE

[@eafesaf6934]

But it's noted that berdly and Kris are friends. Or atleast it's implied they interact privately, by checking him in the encounter he says that "he is only this heated when we are playing"

[@auramaster2068]

Perhaps it was never the adventures that were the focus? There's a million motives Kris could have for making a dark fountain, who knows maybe causing the roaring is a way to end the player's control or Kris is trying to prevent the player from taking all the murder into the real world, maybe its something else entirely completely unrelated to the player.

[@ryanerickson3063]

Kris had a cage all set up before the game began for them to throw the soul into. Almost no one talks about this but it seems pretty significant.

[@meem6154]

It was most likely repurposed for soul containment, or Kris has had soul like issues before.

[@fnaf351]

Or it could be that Kris just had a bird that they neglected before and died or escaped. easy ...

[@fnaf351]

@@scottalleman4564 XD Wtf?

[@olivia7782]

And a further question this raises: if this has been going on for a while now, *does Asriel know about it?*

[@Subpar1O1]

The fact the cage is kept in a cart on wheels is interesting to me; maybe the Soul is like the Grass Sword in Adventure Time where you technically CAN take it out and move it away (via the cage and cart) but it will always find a way out and back into Kris' empty vessel. It at least has to be the case that the soul is drawn to Kris, since every time we see them take it out it always finds a way back into their body by the start of the next chapter so it's like the Soul is stuck to Kris and vice versa, but it raises the question of why we see at the end of Chapter 2 Kris picks up the soul as if they're going to put it back into their body themselves; like they're trying to spite the Soul/us

[@userk9]

To address the Flowey being soulless point, I think it should be noted that flowers do not normally have souls, hence any lack of physical side-effects, whereas a human body or even likely a monster one would require a proper soul to function

[@qwaskdhklfadsdesx5165]

wasn't the soul of Asriel trapped inside flowey? And flowey was asriel or am I getting something wrong

[@userk9]

@@qwaskdhklfadsdesx5165 iirc, Flowey is the result of Asriel's dust being spread on the flowers, possibly even a fragment of his soul from it shattering, but the game implies that the cause of Flowey's sadistic behaviour is due to his lack of a soul. Honestly its been a while since i watched this so i dont remember the context of the original argument

[@qwaskdhklfadsdesx5165]

@@userk9 yeah I think it was the result of his ashes being spread on the flowers resulting to flowey. I heard that the reason for the sadistic behavior was because of chara I forgot the connection between those two but I think it was due to chara corrupting asriel of some sort

[@blokos_]

​@@userk9wait, isnt flowey the result of alphys putting determination into a flower or am i going crazy

[@userk9]

@@blokos_ yes, but she did it it loads of flowers. Seemingly the only one that worked was the one that had asriels dust spear on it

[@silversamurai0267]

10:15 You have to keep in mind, though, that Flowey is an EXTREMELY unique case. 1: He used to be a monster, whose soul had fused with a human's soul. Which, by proxy, gave him access to determination. 2: He DIED. 3: He is now neither human nor monster - he is a FLOWER. Flowers don't need souls to survive. Kris is human. Kris has not died. (That we know of.) And Kris, being a living human, needs a soul to function and continue living. That's why they act the way they do when they take the soul out of their body, whereas Flowey doesn't. Because flowers don't need souls to survive. Humans do.

[@tjlindsay3288]

I believe that Kris's zombielike posture is not due to a lack of a soul, but lack of DT (Determination) typically stored within the soul. Alphys extracted DT from human souls, therefore the Human Soul contains the Determination needed to survive. After their soul got yoinked out (by Kris or by yet another person trying to hijack their body) they have no, or very low, DT energy. Flowey, despite lacking a soul, got injected with a lot of DT allowing for movement and time travel.

[@yallareblind4948]

Alphys determination experiment revived him. Take a hint.

[@pedrofromrio645]

Flowey is neither human nor monster, so it’s inaccurate to compare him to a human

[@alzhanvoid]

@@tjlindsay3288 But monsters also always have low DT and they survive just fine. You're building a parallel theory with that explanation saying that humans not only have more DT than monsters, they need more DT just to take care of their own body and mind. That's two new theories that just popped with one explanation.

[@tjlindsay3288]

@@alzhanvoid I mean, humans DO have more physical matter than monsters. It could stand to reason that there is an acceptable matter:DeTermination ratio. Too much DT per M? Turn into a sentient puddle of white goo. Too much M per DT? Kris. However, I'd like to point out that Kris moves weird BEFORE the soul gets yanked out, so it's probably not that, especially considering the high quantity of DT presumably used to create a Dark Fountain. I mean, it's a whole world filled with sapient living creatures. I know what I said earlier, but I gave it some thought since then and that's probably not it.. Perhaps the stiff movements are as a result of resisting our influence?

[@christianboi7690]

Something I’m surprised nobody ever mentions is the whole thing about Kris studying the occult with Catti. That has to be important somehow.

[@TheShadowOfMars]

IKR. I'm seriously considering that The Player is a demon that Kris has summoned and allowed themself to be possessed by.

[@PineappleLiar]

I’m more inclined in the opposite direction, with the ‘you’ in question being the Angel everyone in the story is talking about. And Kris’s occult studies were more about getting the current resident out (perhaps they learned how to remove their soul from Catti?)

[@0nullnil]

Maybe they're trying to study the nature of Souls so they can figure out how to regain control from us?

[@P.A.L.09]

Kris accidentallyd himself into being possessed

[@Aresofthevoid]

​@@PineappleLiarI've always assumed that noelle was the angel with the implications, but i see how the player works as well

[@sugarfreejelly5577]

One other thing that people forget to mention: It is not just Noelle that realizes their strange behavior Rudy thinks kris has grown up Sans has well... "Great to see you again" and everything else and Toriel, even on the *first day* she ends up thinking that Kris is sick, even without any off wording or behavior. The thing is that she is simply just happy that Kris has a friend after what seems to be a long time, and refuses to confront Kris as to not get in the way of their friendship.

[@FoldingScreenMonkey]

11:19 Another point against the "Kris was kind of a creepy dick before chapter 1 and then became significantly more chill" thing is that's exactly what happened to Susie as well

[@roysparkizay]

about toriel saying kris "does this sometimes", the birdcage also implies that they used to rip out their soul with "looks like it's seen a few crashes" which makes me think: what if it's an analogy for self-harm? many people see kris as being depressed, with some of their searches like "summer college vacation when" and it could be that they don't want to lose asriel like they lost dess. spamton also asks if kris has lost control of their life and that could also extend to before we ever got control of them again.

[@charl3s373]

I don’t think the game is that deep, though

[@dededeletethis9940]

@@charl3s373 so you haven’t played a toby fox game, i take it? I’m sorry, but toby fox is a god-tier writer. There’s barely anything that has no meaning in his games, so analyzing it all is justified. Toby clearly expects us to, considering how he’s even started to put lore in the code, where no casual player would ever find it, or how he keeps referencing gaster, someone who the average player wouldn’t know about considering the only way to learn anything about him are the random fun events

[@charl3s373]

@@dededeletethis9940 I’ve played every song Toby Fox game ever. I make fan games, music, and am part of a massive community. I just think Toby wouldn’t go that far, because Kris is a character that has very little personality, so it wouldn’t make sense at the moment.

[@dededeletethis9940]

@@charl3s373 see, here’s the thing: kris DOES have a personality, you just need to look for it a bit. Here’s a small compilation of things that kris did before the start of the game (i. e. before we took control of them) and other facts we know about them: -kris has flushed bath bombs down the toilet -kris told noelle that ice-e is real and eats kids -kris hid under noelles bed after telling her to watch out for humans under the bed -kris studied the occult with catti -kris can play the piano -kris was very close to asriel and misses him a lot -kris is not a talkative person -this one’s not certain, but asgore implies that kris doesn’t like hugs From all this, we can see that kris is a prankster and a bit antisocial. They take interest in seemingly random things (occult and the piano) and are very attached to their brother. I’d say that’s a personality Oh, and sorry for implying you hadn’t played a toby fox game, that was a mistake on my part

[@ASDASD-rl8dg]

Bruh

[@bananii7477]

34:26 I feel like this is really reminiscent of the no-mercy run, when players would say "this is chara doing they evil >:(" it always bothered me when a theme of undertale was the morbid curiosity people have when playing games, and then not thinking of those actions and consequences in the game's world

[@neutralamity]

that argument always made no sense to me. do you not remember spending hours of your life killing these characters for no reason other than that you felt like it? where does chara even come up outside of a few lines of narration and the ending?

[@KrispyKremeDeltarune]

*WHO THE ACTUAL FU-

[@someguy4405]

Toby has said that Chara's actual name is your name. Chara is you. Chara represents the player and their actions.

[@theflyingspaget]

​@@someguy4405chara cter

[@dachemistofx1667]

@@someguy4405so wait a second, Chara calls themselves a demon, Chara is meant to be the player, the player is a demon.

[@modernprometheus99]

I honestly agree with you. I think far too few people explore the possibility that Kris is neither a hero nor a villain. They're a teenager in some pretty fucked up circumstances and it doesn't seem unreasonable that they'd act in ways that can be harmful to both themself and others. I really want to figure out their exact motives for creating the fountain, as it could be pretty much anything from, "They just want to spend time with Susie and wanted to ensure she'd stay the night" to "They have some secret ulterior motive but need Susie for it". I kind of like the idea, however, that Kris in a Snowgrave route is trying to get help. That's why they slash the tires, to get their mom to call police. Toriel has suspected something is wrong with Kris and would be hard to control. Susie is genuinely friends with Kris now and might suspect something wrong while also being virtually impossible for the player to control.

[@the25thdoctor]

This I agree with this.

[@pakuvang4775]

I saw a theory as to why Kris opened the fountain, even after being warned not to. They had talked to Undyne about how dangerous the dark worlds were, and she didn't believe them. So in response, they slashed Toriel's car tires, knowing she would call the police. And they purposely left the door open for the cops and turned on the TV to get their attention. That way, Undyne or Napstablook would be sucked into the dark world to see how dangerous they can be. Kris is also bringing along the two people they currently trust the most. Toriel and Susie. Kris likely wants their mother to know about the dangers of dark worlds are well. And Susie? Well, I don't know. We'll probably see the reason why in chapter three. But if you take the genocide route, then Kris has a different reason for opening the dark world. They bring along Toriel and Susie along with the police because they want them to know about how dangerous the player is. So basically in both routes, Kris opens the dark fountain as a cry for help, and a way to spread information faster.

[@anneprocter]

My personal opinion has always been way more simple. Kris did have a soul, and now either we are controlling it or have supplanted it with our own. Kris presumably can't survive for long without it but can for at least long enough to do their evil eye shenanigans for a currently unknown motivation. Kris doesn't need to have multiple souls in them if theirs is either replaced or controlled.

[@MfwPrivate]

I like to think Kris is just fucking evil just because of natural malice

[@Pengu69420]

@@MfwPrivate There's quite a few comments on how Kris was in the past and it usually involves mean stuff, like mean pranks etc (even Noelle says that they know each other the best but she's not sure they're friends) . I've got the feeling that Kris was kinda empty even before we joined the story, like some form of psychopathy. Asriel feels like the kind and wholesome brother and since he's away...yeah. TLDR: I don't trust Kris at all

[@callmesnowboo]

simple and effective

[@icantthinkstraight8853]

i think the reason they do the things they do is *because* theyre disconnected from their soul, and looking at Flowey, soulless creatures lack the ability to feel emotion

[@jissmol8738]

@@MfwPrivate i don't think they were evil but very on the joker side, as they used to prank noelle A LOT when they were kids. but not entirely evil

[@thog9501]

There's never been a black and white evil character or good character in undertale. While they are kept simple in their motives, decision making, and personality, a major point is that no character is inherently good or evil. Flowey was once a saint who is corrupted by ultimate power. Chara is (to me) an impressionable kid and narrator that changes to fit whatever run you're doing. Asgore just wants to give hope to people, all that. To say "ooo is kris evil?!?!?!?!" completely goes against how toby writes his characters and people shouldn't have spent so much time arguing about it. My view of Kris is that they are just a parallel to pre-death chara. Chara is also seen as a prankster and a bit of an asshole. They are also shown to act irrationally, such as poisoning themselves so that Asriel could take their soul and get six more souls to free the underground. It's a bit of a stretch to say it but there is a parallel here which shows that chara and kris were both willing to give up control over themselves in order to carry out their ambitions. While kris's ambitions are unknown, if we say that they're trying to do something on par with freeing monsters from the underground, it can explain why they'd create a new fountain even after a snowgrave run. Whatever they're trying to accomplish, it matters more to them than their friend's deaths. It would also mean that it doesn't matter how the player goes about it, as their goals would be accomplished either way. This also ties into the "no matter what you do, the ending will always be the same" thing that Toby said.

[@snes4781]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYicZZ1sltmUi6M

[@RemnantCult]

Astute observation. Reading this, I'm terrified as to what is prompting them to be opening fountains. There seems to be something out there that is forcing their hand, rather it be a yearning for adventure and escape from daily lightner troubles or a force not yet known or seen. Yet, they still allow themselves to be controlled by the SOUL when they could possibly just open as many as they can meaning that fulfilling the prophecy is likely a part of their motive. I could ramble on and on.

[@fusrosandvich3738]

@@RemnantCult I saw someone suggest that, like Spamton was, Kris is currently in a state of requiring a controlling force, and that without it they'd die, like Spamton...did. Their idea was also that the reason Kris is yelling after dealing with spamton (if you pick "no") is because he just discovered that fact, not because he was scared of Spamton himself. Coupled with Kris becoming extremely shambly and zombie-like while soulless, and the fact that they always come back for it, I think it's a theory that holds water.

[@cara9851]

Kind of piggybacking off of this there is a strong theme in this game of not getting to choose whereas in undertale you basically get to choose every aspect of the game

[@editingdude122]

I think this is the most accurate analysis of Kris’ motivations/actions in the context of Deltarune’s themes that we can give at this point

[@Liminalsubliminal404]

Maybe the reason why kris opened a dark world on snow grave was because up until that point they’ve had positive experiences. They’ve been having fun with their friends. When they made the dark world they had Susie, who is not easily manipulated, and can call us out on our shit, Kris’s MOM, who will definitely keep us in check, and there’s also a badass police lady on the way, who can also keep us in check. I think their strategy is to surround themself with people who will stop us if we go too far, and keep us away from any manipulatable people. Toriel, Susie, and undyne will keep us from hurting anyone.

[@Mohammad20202]

That honestly sounds like a souless story 😏 seriously if this is the story of the game then toby isnt even trying

[@rainbowmioda]

"a badass cop" _You hear a distant ghostly song_

[@mariokujo384]

wouldn't it make more sense for kris to use the limited time they have to just tell someone about what's happening to them? they may be the only human in town, but given that humans and monsters can live together in the world of Deltarune, there has to be at least some info there (from research to just legends and folklore) about what's happening to Kris. idk, the fact that "kris" does the exact same things in the exact same way, as if snowgrave doesn't affect them, is probably the strangest thing.

[@velvetphi]

​@@mariokujo384But does Kris even think that someone would believe them if they spoke about what they're going through? There's plenty of reasons why not. We've never seen Kris remove the soul with someone else watching, after all.

[@mariokujo384]

@@velvetphi i think it would be really easy to prove. just rip out the SOUL in front of somebody you know and then tell everything you know before it comes back to possess you.

[@BrixVGM]

I agree fully; Personally, I think the idea of a third entity makes little sense mainly from a storytelling perspective; It implies Toby had the idea to make our player character someone different from our own, allowing for a deconstruction of what being a player character does to someone (Simular to how Sans in undertale is kind of a deconstruction of how being an NPC in a game world can affect you, if that makes sense), but decided to then also add a third entity that does all the stuff, is nonsensical to me. I don't see Toby or any good writer having such an interesting idea but deciding to do basically nothing with it by adding a third entity to the senario.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

As of Chapter 2 almost everyone has realized we are taking control from Kris... without a 3rd entity how do we just not give Kris control? It almost forces a 3rd entity in or having influenced Kris to remove their freedom... otherwise the narrative becomes "You're a bad person and should've let Kris live their life." When many people would've gladly watch the story unfold.

[@BrixVGM]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 I've read your comment like 3 times over and I still have absolutely no idea what.yohre trying to argue? Are you saying a third entity.is nessicary just to explain how we got.in this situation where we control Kris? Yeah, sure, but that entity doesn't nessicarily have to be part of Kris. It seems to me that WD Gaster (somehow) inserted us into Kris but doesn't seem to still have influence.

[@slysamuel5902]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 Literally all these questions you claim as evidence for a third entity - of which apparently also controls Kris - is explained by Gaster just doing his thing in the beginning, without him ever needing to take over Kris to have the story make sense. Did you skip chapter 1 or something?

[@slysamuel5902]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 1. “Without a third entity how do we just not give Kris control?” Gaster is responsible for that as implied by the beginning of the game, without ever possessing Kris. 2. “It almost forces a 3rd entity in or having influenced Kris to remove their freedom.” Literally just Gaster being responsible for that. 3. “… Otherwise the narrative becomes “You are a bad person and should have let Kris live their life.” when many people would have gladly watched the story unfold.” No it does not. Flat out. It. Does. Not. Even if the goner maker introduction was never shown to us, there is nothing saying that would be the outcome of the moral. It could still have very well ended up as you unwillingly putting someone else in this situation. The only exception would be the snowgrave route in which you would be taking advantage of the situation for negative purposes, in which case you would deserve that narrative where you are the bad guy. The thing is there is no evidence to believe this narrative of “you being intentionally evil to Kris by controlling them” carries over to the neutral or pacifist route of Deltarune, aside from confirmation bias.

[@thevioletskull8158]

I think a third entity can still work,it has the be us doing stuff but maybe the third entity is trying to do something else,like the fountain thing. But it could also just be us and Kris and that's interesting too.

[@Marrianno]

15:00 I think Kris' potential motive is to search for answers in dark world. It is extremely dangerous, nonetheless possible.

[@Robin_hsr12]

A comment above explains this but I think his motive is to get everyone stronger because you level up after every dark world. I think Kris knows something we don't. I presume that the calamity is inevitable

[@cflat4628]

OK hear me out: The main theme of this game is "your choices don't matter". But what if, wheneverthat's said (e.g. character creator, Susie) they're actually talking to the player. the player's choices don't matter, but Kris' does. Kris does make decisions, like taking out the soul those two times, or backing away from the supply closet in Chapter 1. Those matter, but the text box options don't actually matter. Your choices don't matter, but Kris' do.

[@youraveragemachine1013]

There's a loop hole to it tho *see noelle

[@jadyn2577]

i think this is a good take, but i think it can go both ways. 1. the standard "the player makes the choice while the main protagonist has little to no control blah blah" and 2. the player doesn't have control of what's happening with the dark world/how theyre created. in other words, it may seem like youre making progress by sealing the fountains, while in reality you dont have control over whats actually making them/keeping them alive.

[@gfgfhgvgh]

Something about Kris being described as "spectacularly androgenous" adds years to my life.

[@vampmoni8635]

@Scott Alleman they*

[@luckyboom8802]

Could kris be like flowey ?

[@jairasha]

@@vampmoni8635 The more I see people badgering everyone over that, the less I care about it at all. It's gotten to the point that I'm becoming more and more numb and could easily start misgendering.

[@vampmoni8635]

@@jairasha ok, thats rlly weird of u but u do u

[@jairasha]

@@vampmoni8635 If only you could actually apply that to everyone

[@B4K4xNi]

The fact that the stuff in Asriel's drawer is different between save files is way more consise proof that the three save files are branching timelines than all that menu stuff.

[@XiELEd4377]

Wait what!?

[@Estra_Estra]

@Scott Alleman There isn't a single other example of the save files being different other than the drawer dialogue... Makes one wonder how that it might factor into things if it comes alive.

[@Estra_Estra]

@Scott Alleman Unfortunately I can only check and plug it in every 3 years so see you then.

[@Estra_Estra]

Wait who was I replying to

[@supersillystuffs]

21:10 This unrelated footage implies the third soul is Berdly

[@poppip10]

that would be absolutely bonkers

[@Manoman017]

This video is actually a masterpiece, its insane. I don't know how you managed to talk about so much and have it still be coherent and all flow together. The ending was really really good, I love that you gave your opinion as well and didn't just stick to objective views and weigh each option, its a nice injection of your voice beyond the incredible analysis. I'm excited be a patron, keep up the great work!

[@dfelipeg]

How did you already whatched it, the video is like 40 minutes long and it came out just now????

[@Manoman017]

@@dfelipeg I may have an inside contact ;)

[@danielburleson259]

@@Manoman017 Haha, insider trading ;)

[@dfelipeg]

@@Manoman017 you know too much

[@soundrogue4472]

because he kept on subject.

[@D_YellowMadness]

I think one of the reasons Kris removes their soul before enacting secret plans is because they know the soul is being watched. The first thing they do after removing it the first time is materialize a knife & smile at the camera. The second time they remove it, they walk outside & the camera doesn't follow them until they put it back in. This also fits with the fact that you only get to see what off-screen characters are doing when Ralsei suggests thinking about what they're doing and you can choose not to in the second case, which leads to the scene being skipped, Ralsei asking what Susie did, & Susie not telling him. I always wonder why Ralsei knows Kris can do that & if Kris ever did it before Ralsei suggested it.

[@masonjones7777]

Sorry for the 6 month reply, but I need to gush about Ralsie's intentions to SOMEONE before my head explodes, even if they never read it. It's safe to say Fluffy boi is scetchy AF after the dialogue post-spamton, but I really, really want to know specifically why he needs to be sketchy in the first place. The best way to uncover what somebody is hiding is to see what they say or how they react in times of stress, frustration, and surprise. and we have a couple of times to work with: when Berdly attempts to make a fountain Kris' response to Suzie asking if they are OK after Spamton's fight Getting duped by the King after he heals him Berdly is the most obvious one to deconstruct, Ralsie is Immediately against his actions and gives a well-detailed exposition as to why it is bad, and it is something he alluded to before in chapter 1. This implies that he didn't make it up on the spot due to the detailed response and above all else whatever his hidden goals are they do NOT work with a dark fountain being created in a dark world. The post-Spamton dialogue is a bit more interesting, as Ralsie gives a far more vague and unhelpful response to Kris' breakdown. From that we can consider Ralsie does indeed want to move on but does not know how to help. This implies he doesn't understand why Kris would be upset. And moreso gives us this: Ralsie can be caught off guard by what he cannot witness and it's pretty much the main reason why we as players know that something is fishy. Now the last is unfortunately super unhelpful, as after the King betrays Ralsie's kindness and puts the Trio in Danger, we don't get anything other than Ralsie apologizing to Suzie and an agreement to compromise on the morality of their solutions. You would think this is character growth, but with the context that he is sometimes withholding truth or implying falsehoods, we cannot guess if the entire event was staged by the Fluffy Boi to sell the idea of "sometimes you need to fight" to the player. It does however give us this: Ralsie is actively letting the player and Kris know that a violent solution is not out of the question But what we can determine is this: 1. Ralsie knows a LOT about soul mechanics, saving, and most importantly how the PLAYER SEES THE WORLD. He is (as of confirmed characters) the single most aware individual other than maybe Gaster depending on how much stuff is actually the G-mans doing 2. Ralsie has a reason to make false implications and withhold info, both to the cast as well as the player. 3. Whatever his true motive is: he absolutely DOES NOT want a new dark portal to be created in an existing dark world. 4. He doesn't know about how Kris deals with Soul-related issues. 5. Ralsie is openly guiding the player away from violent actions based upon what he says before entering the golden doors in chapter 1. Meaning he prefers a peaceful resolution to obtain his end goal, but compromises with Suzie meaning that it isn't a make-or-break for him. 6. so far he has lead us to close 2 fountains and recruit denizens from both, with mandatory recruits as well as the potential for missing others.

[@rikuyuno241]

@@masonjones7777 now that i think about it, why the hell is Ralsei waiting for years, and why did the gates somehow opened for Lancer to appear when we went there, on the ending we can assume it was he who locked it, so why did the gate open now? WHY DOES IT NEED TO BE CLOSED WHEN THE FOUNTAIN IS GONE?

[@masonjones7777]

@@rikuyuno241 My best guess for why it needs to be closed: it was linked to lancer's dark world, and once you move the items into the storage closet, that world it no longer exists at all, the door becomes nothing more than a wall. as for the first bit: new world gets created, Ralsie waits for A HUMAN and A MONSTER to join him: A PRNCE OF THE DARK to fulfil his prophecy. Ultimately, the only reason for him to wait is because he needs us, most likely for a more important reason than combat effectiveness. The new question becomes why does ne need to follow that prophecy? and how much of it is true? Maybe it's all true, but the members involved aren't who you think, lancer has gone 2 for 2 on helping us with our goal, and he is also a prince from the dark world.

[@rikuyuno241]

@@masonjones7777 that is true, i guess its hard to speculate things especially for me who is not financially available to have the undertale experience(and just have trouble comprehensing stuff in general), still makes me wonder if Ralsei is a prince of pure dark, what is the possibly of a king or queen of pure dark existing? what about pure light?

[@masonjones7777]

@@rikuyuno241 Fair enough, but don't let a lack of accessibility get you down, there is no shame in speculating even IF you don't have as many pieces as others do. So long as you are civil it isn't much of an issue. onto theory-crafting: Ultimately the vague nature of the prophecy "prince of the dark" doesn't imply "pureness" or lack thereof, just that they are some way related to the dark worlds. Furthermore, there has been no mention of denizens of the dark world being more dark or light than other people, just that it seems to run on a binary origin logic: if you are from the light world, you are a lightner, and vice versa for a dark world. I assume that the implied definition is simply a Prince, who is also a darkener. But here is the kicker: Ralsie might not BE a darkener, he might be something else, we just don't know anything about his origins outside of what little he tells us. If anything, he is rather "out of place" compared to most darkeners. In chapter 1 the first hint was his face reveal after the king fight, he looks like Krs' brother Asriel (and jumbles up the letters of his name) he is the only character in the dark world right now that is a direct visual copy of someone from the light world (though he probably looks younger than the Asriel that is in college right now) In chapter 2, the Queen regularly forgets about him and few, if none, of the denizens of the cyber world even notice him, Berdly doesn't pay him much mind. Ralsie still might be a darkener but there is reasonable room for doubt.

[@amalnambiar11]

".. instead of trying to figure out what third entity might be controlling Kris in the player's absence, we should just be trying to figure out Kris." To me, this is the take-home message of the video. It's definitely not impossible that Toby could have intended for a Third Entity - but at least as far as fan theories go, there is no real thematic satisfaction to be found in any of the options we currently have. The Kris+Player dynamic is just so much more interesting to me than any Gaster-fueled conspiracy (at least at the moment). As for understanding Kris, my guess - which is admittedly weak - is that they are going through the in-game equivalent of an identity crisis. None of the actions they take truly belong to them. Their social life was non-existent before the Dark World shenanigans. In a way, this could be a commentary on how even the most fully realized of video game protagonists can only exist as a vehicle for player desire. This was a fantastic and comprehensive watch. I wish more online theorists combed through the game with as much precision as you do. I'm not sure what kind of content you have lined up next regarding Deltarune (if at all) but I wanted to suggest a few ideas nonetheless:- 1) I would like to hear your thoughts on what The Angel is meant to represent. Like determination, this is a term that has been borrowed from Undertale but ostensibly means something else in this new context. 2) I would like to know what you think the significance of the SnowGrave Route. If the Genocide route was a meta-commentary on the level of tedium and sluggish gameplay players will endure just to net an unrewarding ending, where does that leave the SnowGrave Route? Is it a meta-commentary too? If so, what is it commenting on?

[@FrogmaskMusic]

2) This is a take that probably should see more intention and development on my end, but I'd argue that SnowGrave is also meta-commentary. I'd maybe even say that, if the Genocide route used the classic RPG trope of level grinding as a vehicle for its commentary, then SnowGrave uses the vehicle of social links or dating sim mechanics or whatever shenanigans you see in more modern productions like Persona. Players aren't just willing to spend hours of their lives grinding to work towards an unrewarding ending, they're willing to grind relationships (whether towards companionship, or in the case of SnowGrave, into nothing) towards a series of unrewarding endings. You're going down a completionist path. You're seeing all the little secrets. It doesn't matter if you have to destroy friendships grounded as important in the lore of the world, bulldoze relationships that would be the healthier choice for your player character, or steal from the shopkeep and be called THIEF for the rest of your playthrough. These characters you experience are toys, and you'll play with them until they bend and break. I'm worried that my description makes SnowGrave sound too much like a retread of the Genocide route-- the Genocide route, of course, is a world in which Frisk (by the player's hand) fails to form the bonds they so clearly do in the Pacifist route. But I think the commentary of SnowGrave is dependent on the fact that Frisk has a history of their own, and so do their friends. So much of SnowGrave is pushing Kris and Noelle together, rather uncomfortably. Even though Noelle clearly has a crush on Susie, one that seems to be reciprocated. Even though Kris, at least in the Normal route, seems (to whatever degree) to be content with having Noelle as a dear but definitively platonic childhood friend. We want to see a certain outcome, even if the framing of this world simply doesn't allow for it, and so we'll bend the path of the beads until they break off. And so these characters cease to be themselves, under the spell of a bad dream. ...If determination is now the creation of fiction, has SnowGrave become unhinged fanfiction? tl;dr: imagine if every time you could choose to be mean to hau in pokemon SM you chose to be mean and you got to see the clear psychological damage that kind of shit does

[@amalnambiar11]

@@FrogmaskMusic To be honest, I had a take quite similar to yours. I summarized it to myself as - "Undertale challenges an assumption - the assumption the RPG battles should be nothing more than grind fodder that do not matter outside of themselves. Similarly, Deltarune challenges an assumption - the assumption that party management is only about making sure that everyone's numbers go up, with no regard for the characters themselves." This focus of Party over Enemy can be seen in the changes to certain systems. Unlike in Undertale, sparing and fighting take about the same number of turns- and, apart from IceShock, no other attack can ever really kill a Darkner. For this reason, I can't wait to see the rest of Deltarune. If what you say is true, there are so many possibilities for party interactions to explore. This might even be the reason why Toby mentioned that DR has One Ending (TM). It might be the same outcome each time but the party's inner dynamic would vary based on what your choices were.

[@falendemo546]

@@FrogmaskMusic --- also I think SnowGrave is at the same time reference to Earthbound when you get Paula and her "PK Freeze" PSI.

[@FrogmaskMusic]

@@falendemo546 I mean it's a little interesting when you consider that Paula develops a crush on Ness, and you're given the option to invite her over for dinner in the ending-- or escort her back home, and have her confess her little crush on you These don't really change *anything* at all in the game's progression, especially since they're set at the very end of the game. How would the game change if you could respond to her emotions-- toy with her feelings, even-- earlier in the game, where her psychic powers are all the more important? If bullying her was not only an option, but made her more powerful, would players do it? Maybe the SnowGrave route tells us that, yes, people would

[@professorhaystacks6606]

@@FrogmaskMusic Mother 1 has the Paula's predecessor as Ninten "Do you love me?" You can answer either way. If yes she's thrilled, but if no she brushes it off with 'not the time'. Not sure if that means anything.

[@Len..K]

Personally I really wanna know more about Kris as a person, because while they are described as this chaotic friendless weirdo who seems to not like people they have some moments that don't exactly go with that (namely the fact that they're the only one in the party who can really flirt and the whole dance cutscene from chapter 2 but I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting) and I think it would be really interesting to see how differently they act with people they're comfortable with vs this whole town of monsters who think of them as "THE human" or that fourth Dreemur instead of just Kris

[@bigbadconnivingbastard]

true :(

[@Pengu69420]

To me Kris seems like a psychopath : mean pranks, no friends or connections, he's even mean and cruel for no reason while playing videogames (the comment about them ditching Yoshi to die for no reason, his brother favourite character), even Noelle doesn't think they're friends even after growing up close. I feel like Asriel kept him kinda in check and now that he's gone and we're here who knows.

[@somedragonbastard]

​@@Pengu69420 the fact that you misgendered them in your comment shows you have the reading comprehension skills of a rotten cabbage so maybe replay the game and actually pay attention instead of armchair diagnosing a videos game character

[@GolfBall-gh4te]

@@Pengu69420*they

[@pakuvang4775]

​@@Pengu69420I don't think so. The thing is, I act almost exactly like Kris does. I make mean pranks, (I acted and voiced a character that one of my friends was terrified of) I, at one point had no friends, (I was left out) and I'm mean or cruel for no reason. (I would regularly call my friends by rude names/names that they hated) So in your logic, I'm a psychopath. Plus, another thing both me and Kris do, we are both only mean to people that we love as playful banter. Would Kris ever genuinely harm anyone? No! I would do the same. If they were an actual psychopath, they'd be using that knife they own a *lot* more often for reasons that involve blood. Also, the reason Noelle doesn't think she and Kris are friends are because they drifted apart in time. Noelle wouldn't actively go to Kris and say, "I don't want to be friends anymore." They both still act friendly with each other. They both just stopped hanging out at one point. And again with the playful banter, Kris only let Yoshi, Asriel's favorite character, die because of the sibling dynamic. Kris would do things that provoke Asriel, Asriel would do things that provoke Kris. All siblings get into a fight, verbal or physical, at one point. Kris still loves their sibling like any other person does. Their throat tightens in response to drinking hot chocolate because it reminds them of Asriel. They miss him. So yeah, Kris is just a teenager doing average teenage things, even if eating moss is weird. And if you haven't noticed, I'm a teenager myself, so I relate to them. (And do I need help? Yes, I probably do.)

[@moresnqp]

30:00 im glad that toby is moving the plot device from "this kid does some crazy stuff!" to "a bunch of people... they have their reasons."

[@johanstenfelt1206]

By the way, the part about “it not being Kris’ Soul, but the Player’s Soul” is actually what I have been thinking, however i have only thought about it in the lines of “if the Soul belongs to the Player, then what happened to Kris’ Soul? And where is it?”, any of the things you brought up about the subject were things I never even considered when thinking about it.

[@birdcar7808]

I have a theory that Kris might not have ever had their own soul… part of the reason why people found them so creepy before the player’s soul inhabited them.

[@lexibigcheese]

I have a feeling the entire game is about... making the game. if there were no dark fountains there would be no game, nothing to play. the show must go on.

[@otttimon5654]

Kris being soulless before player is something I still think is true. When they got the taste of sweet soul juice so now their body needs it to be alive. Flowey can't keep form of Asriel without souls. What if Kris weren't so active before we came. They might have been just like Susie said "Like a zombie". They were not as weak as they are now without our soul but weaker than with our soul. Workings of soulless beings are very mysterious. We have Flowey but we don't see a lot of him. He might need lot of rest and uses the little energy he has to stalk us

[@thevioletskull8158]

@@birdcar7808 That is possible,I just wonder how Kris learned the piano or what ever else

[@johanstenfelt1206]

@@otttimon5654 hm, based on what we hear about them from the locals, i think they might’ve been more active than you think.

[@askerror1987]

It's so refreshing seeing a Deltarune KZbinr acknowledging not only our pseudo-sibling relationship with Homestuck, but leaving it at that and not making the easy 'boo Homestuck bad' joke. And on your thoughts on how Undertale and, now, Deltarune's fans have been treating the human characters- yes. Exactly. The intriguing part of this story is that we are controlling characters who are, despite our best efforts, are not and never will be self-inserts of us. To try and force them into this role is taking away the entire reason why our relationship with Kris, Frisk and Chara was so interesting.

[@BetterDayz55]

35:08 hit like a TRUCK for me. That line is such an inspirational quote, if only Kris were to be looked at as a metaphor for the player and the player, their emotions.

[@Daisy-xo9cq]

I think you may have missed a possibility in that Kris had their own soul that was replaced by the players. It's why their name appears on the save file the first time you save before being replaced by the one you entered. The vessel you make at the beginning of the game is you building your soul and then Kris's soul is removed and replaced with your own. I also think souls seem to function differently in deltarune. Berdly doesn't turn to dust when he dies and only Spamton, a character linked to Gaster, seems to make any mention of souls, suggesting they aren't necessarily a thing the characters are aware of or may not even have. That might add evidence to the other theory that Kris never had a soul to begin with, and that therefore souls in this game represent the player's control over the game that Gaster is aware of rather than being a concept understood in this world.

[@snes4781]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYicZZ1sltmUi6M

[@coolbruh2973]

Linked to Gaster? We don't even know enough info about "Gaster" to even confirm that.

[@Daisy-xo9cq]

@@coolbruh2973 I meant through the garbage noise I don't think it's necessarily fact though

[@Minefan200]

@@Daisy-xo9cq I mean like. Man who speaks in hands. Spamton's hands turn into phones, he references the garbage noise, which is the entry 17 noise

[@Minefan200]

@@coolbruh2973 Considering some things Spamton references relate back to Gaster, it's pretty clear that Spamton has a link to this character

[@scaryjump]

Sometimes i feel bad for Kris. Imagine, one day, waking up.. and you had NO control over your body. It's a bit sad, actually.

[@Just-Creation]

What do you mean *sometimes* ?

[@TheMarioBBB]

Yeah but then you make 5 friends in 1 day and save the world twice

[@whereismycup]

hey I mean he got potassium so stop complaining

[@mirabelwindsor9424]

If that happened to me I'd happily just take a backseat for the eldritch horror tbh

[@kescon3]

I think one thing we can definitely see so far is that Kris' arc is going to be a commentary on fandom reactions to Undertale. The pie fakeout (whether or not they were off making a fountain as well) is very clearly playing off perceptions of Chara as evil and scary; and I think that their increased personality and struggles for agency seems to be that Toby wanted to explore stuff that he hadn't with Frisk. Ironically of course, there are a lot of edgy theories about our presence being awful and harmful: I'm really glad that Toby said that we (presumably the player) will be able to make friends with everybody, I want nice things for Kris!

[@chasebrainerd5835]

So basically referencing fanon?

[@sunny__41]

i know this sounds random but that gaster gif part really helped me. i wish there was a longer version because it's just so... oddly calming. it let me take a break to breathe and i am thankful for that /srs

[@andrew_cunningham]

Just put the linked version of the music on loop and you'll probably get the same effect

[@sunny__41]

@@andrew_cunningham no theres something about gaster dancing in slow motion specifically... i dont know its weird lmao

[@Agyrius]

EXPECTATIONS HAVE BEEN SHATTERED PERFECTION HAS BEEN MET ASCENDANCY HAS BEEN REACHED WELL DONE! WELL DONE!

[@windego64]

DON'T SPOIL THE GAME

[@leedlelel2373]

Ohmigosh its dr yingadinga sasster

[@snes4781]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYicZZ1sltmUi6M

[@andrewuber8184]

Just want to to give my two cents on the whole "Kris... does this sometimes" quote from Toriel, which is often used to argue that Kris has tore their soul out in the past. There is no conceivable reason as to why Kris would tear out their soul from their body prior to the start of chapter 1, at least with the info we have now. Kris tears out their soul to gain back control of their body to perform actions outside of the player's will and control. Kris is otherwise incapable of doing thess things while the current soul resides inside of them, whoever the soul belongs to. Assuming Kris had control of their own soul before chapter 1 starts, why would they need to tear out their soul before chapter 1? They would have the means to do what they want at any time, full control of their body. The only possible conclusion with this theory is that, prior to chapter 1, Kris still had no control over their soul. This doesn't make sense if we assume the start of chapter 1 results in Kris losing control of themself/us gaining control of Kris. This would lead to a lot of convoluted theories that we simply don't have enough info to construct. It is much more likely that a troubled, teenage Kris would often spend time in places like the bathroom for extended periods of time to cope with their stress/anxiety/depression, to get away for some alone time, before returning to interact with those present. I suspect this "lore," i.e. the Toriel quote, was added by Toby to make the reaction of those around Kris believable whenever Kris tears out the soul. It would present a problem in chapter 2 if Toriel started knocking on the bathroom door and asking what's wrong with Kris after they crawl out the bathroom window to slash the tires, they would likely be discovered. It's much more reasonable to assume that Kris has been known to get away by themselves for extended periods of time. Anyways, such a great video, appreciate all the time and effort you poured into this one and the last. I couldn't agree more with your distaste in the third entity theory, and I think you nailed it on explaining why we should be breaking kris down instead.

[@andrew_cunningham]

I like this explanation a lot, but I don't have 100% confidence in it, and wasn't prepared to spend the time arguing for or against it in the video. In general for this script, if there was a point I felt uncertain about, and I wasn't willing to spend the effort of going through the evidence, then I generally leaned towards playing devil's advocate just to be safe. Seeing the direction this video took, though, I'm not sure this is necessarily the best approach going forward.

[@psychopomp4135]

Also worth noting is that, when you check the sink in Rudy’s hospital room under certain conditions, he’ll ask if Kris is getting ready for “tonight’s hand washing marathon.” So it seems that Kris simply has a habit of washing their hands for a long time, which isn’t at all farfetched considering their other unusual behaviors.

[@andrew_cunningham]

@@psychopomp4135 I've never heard of this dialogue. Do you know how to get it? I'm very curious.

[@-ZH]

Chapter 2 hospital sink First check Susie: “… hey, Kris, why are you checking the sink?” Rudy: “That’s what I’M asking, sweetheart!” Second check Rudy: “Practicing for tonight’s…” Rudy: “Handwashing marathon, Kris?”

[@ofekma12345]

how to you explain the bird cage though? the fact that it's the only item in Kris's side of the room and that it already took some hits. Like it was prepared for this purpose specifically. How Kris has been interested in occult and 'demon summoning classes for teenagers', how there are some things they won't let us do even when we're in control, like walk to their mom with the trash orb on the head. This is just speculation of course, but I feel like we can't outright disqualify this option just yet.

[@charlieburnham39]

Dude you're like the only guy on youtube who can make me laugh out loud at practically every joke. Something about the ultra serious tone with the absurd visuals and perfect comedic timing just keeps hitting the dopamine button in my brain. You really have some talent and I consider you one of the best Deltarune creators out there, if not the best. I'm even going to violate my policy of keeping a minimum distance of 6 ft. from the fandom and join your discord. You and some other creators have even inspired me to try my hand at making one or two of my own videos about this game if I can stop being so god damn lazy. Again, fantastic job, you're dedication is honestly inconceivable to me.

[@andrew_cunningham]

It's worth noting that my first video was made on a whim, with zero prior experience, and no expectation of success. If you're knowledgeable about the topic and can get over the hump of actually starting a project, you might stumble into making something really good. Idk, that's all the advice I'm qualified to give at this point.

[@charlieburnham39]

@@andrew_cunningham Thanks :)

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@andrew_cunningham Read the amazing webcomic Prequel Adventure!

[@monke6912]

@@andrew_cunningham you should check bit your theory in undertale (possonly deltarune) dt is what gives you powers and what if kris dosent have eneough dt remeber how whit eneough dt person can change faces like chara and flowey

[@HxH2011DRA]

Let me know if you do

[@SpudRusset]

Maybe Chris’s souls were really the friends we made along the way

[@dgrb1234]

20 minutes in. God that's relieving to know Kris doesn't NEED to have three souls, I had previously put quite a bit of thought into making it work but it's real hard to get three FULL souls into Kris's body.

[@alzhanvoid]

Plus, not to mention the now godlike combination of power that it would be to have the nightmarish combination of 3 human, potentially Determination red humans souls inside a human body. A monster with a single human soul can slaughter scores of regular humans, a monster with 3 human souls is a fearsome beast of destruction. And at 6 and 7... well we all know that story. But, pair a human's resilient body with several souls worth of strength? And what if we maximized that strength by feeding 3 boss monster souls to each soul... Like damn, Kris would be packing HEAT.

[@Seeks_stuff]

15:26 You just managed to give me PTSD by playing half a second of that song

[@Supergamer8100]

The "Close" at 15:27 got me, I was truly not prepared. This video is great! I think this is a great explanation of all the differing viewpoints, and it's cleared up a bunch for me regarding others' views on Chapters 1 & 2.

[@oshenrandall2203]

good I'm not alone.

[@axelinedgelord4459]

Your eyes

[@santiagovidal4497]

Your eyes

[@squintword]

@@santiagovidal4497 you'll be

[@ricekrispies282]

@@squintword here soon

[@username5155]

25:57 Nah nah nah nah, we know what Gaster looks like. He’s that little blob the donut GFollower holds

[@StarWandin]

The blob is the Gaster follower and the guy is Gaster /J

[@alicebnuuy6155]

honestly whatever the deal with Kris is, i just hope that the game doesn't end up with the player being a bad guy for playing the game. in-universe we didn't exactly chose to get stuck with Kris either, since we were supposed to get our own vessel but it was discarded at the last second. and in my opinion it's way more interesting if the soul is just as stuck with Kris as they are with us, rather than having the answer just be "stop playing if you don't want to control Kris anymore." like, if it's that the "correct" choice is just not to play the game, it might work in a meta sense of you playing a video game, but i feel like it makes a pretty dull story in-universe, when the idea of kris being controlled by the a soul that wasn't intended to get stuck with them is super interesting. I feel like going "yeah it's just a video game, if you dont wanna control kris then dont play it" feels like it takes a ton of wind out of the sails of that cool story.

[@xaldynnemo47]

Toby did say the game could be played by anyone, but was meant specifically for people who played Undertale... And if you've played Undertale, you would already know that the "correct" choice is not to play, regardless of which routes you took.

[@MxPokirby]

Same. That would basically also just be a rehash of the Earthbound Halloween Hack, which I'm almost certain Toby has long since grown past, both in writing ability and just general views on things.

[@MxPokirby]

@@xaldynnemo47 Maybe after achieving True Pacifist, but I wouldn't say the game begins with the notion of "you should stop playing". Only after helping everybody achieve a happy ending, which may not have even happened naturally otherwise. Then again, it's not like the player is actually a character in Undertale anyways, as basically any action that could be attributed to the player could even more easily be explained by Frisk or Chara as individuals, so I'm not sure what I'm going on about.

[@AndrewS-vu4ji]

Something something false choices you can stop doing bad things in games by not playing the game. I trust toby fox and his insane lore building

[@giovanni5954]

That is such a good take, I think the argue of "the player is the true evil" only applies to genocide/weird rote any other rote is normal or neutral

[@JaruJaruJ]

Oh man, I was terrified that your video and my video were basically discussing/arguing about the same things and that they came out around the same time, but thankfully that was not the case! We approached the utter nightmare of mystery that is Kris from very different angles, which is cool. Anyway, great video man! The production value is on point.

[@MB-qg4zw]

On Soulless Kris behving different from Flowey, I think that makes a lot of sense. Kris's sluggish movement can be explained by them having a human body, which usally has a soul, so it makes sense that it doesnt really work well without one. Floweys body, on the other hand, is a normal golden flower, which shouldnt have a soul anyway, so hes fine in that department. As for Floweys supposed inability to feel most positive emotions, I think thats probably just trauma, and doesnt have too much to do with beeing soulless (Evidence for this: as Photoshop Flowey, he has souls, yet is still an asshole. Same for God of Hyperdeath, he only stops beeing a dick after the "Save" option gets selected on him, and he retains his new compassion after returning the souls, and even after turning back into a flower)

[@drantino]

one of the things that adds to floweys mental state being trauma/numbness instead of a soulless is during the genocide run he also starts to fear and even break to a point that was close to what asriel in a feared state. its the entire philosophy of all the pain and suffering or helping that he could do can just be reset and sees no point of any one state. generally sans entier thing in everything but the genocide but letting things happen as the being with power choice the outcome

[@abcdef-ms9mb]

I was gonna say the exact same thing regarding soulless human vs flower, but I decided to look through the comments before I did that, and it appears that indeed someone beat me to it.

[@vissersixty-nine6246]

He was also sprinkled with some determination iirc, so that could mean he no longer needs a soul to get around in the same way Kris might

[@lovablelavender8598]

Just my two cents to Flowey not being truly emotionless: he finds joy in hurting others, cries at the end of geno route, and feels anger and frustration. My little "theory" is that he can only feel negative emotions and only gets a tinge of happiness when he hurts others. Or he's so crazy that he just fakes emotions at this point so he doesn't just snap-

[@ahmed4363]

its not that Flowey doesn't feel emotions entirely. He just cannot love or care for others, completely devoid of compassion. Wasn't it said that (monster) souls were made from love and compassion?

[@UnoriginalJokester]

9:47 I feel like you could use this exact same argument to counter the soulless Kris argument as well. If Kris never had a soul before we came along, then clearly they functioned just fine without a soul. So, just like if they already had another soul, they don't need the player to live as normal. The only logical explanation to me is that the red soul does in fact belong to Kris, and that we're just an entity controlling it. But, that's just me.

[@the_demon149]

I agree

[@boiyas6518]

I mean the entire game says "your soul" when you're sealing the fountains. May not be kris's soul. At the very least, not anymore.

[@UnoriginalJokester]

@@boiyas6518 The game usually uses the pronoun "You" to refer to anything Kris does.

[@boiyas6518]

@@UnoriginalJokester aint we usually the one in control of kris when that happens tho

[@UnoriginalJokester]

@@boiyas6518 Not all the time.

[@CheesyLizzy]

8:36 there's also the 3rd option that Kris's soul was teleported or is being held captive elsewhere in order to make room for the player's soul This would provide a possibility that Kris was not born soulless, but they do not currently have their soul right now

[@cly_]

Kris's soul is in the goner vessel, and they were discarded to the same place as Dess, and Gaster. This will clearly be the party you play as in chapter 7.

[@TwilightFlower9]

This makes the most sense to me. We know Kris could save before we showed up, we overwrite their file and one of Noelle's blogposts from the spamton sweepstakes describes Kris knowing a whole lot of stuff they shouldn't have, likely because they were using saves to fuck with her and Susie. It'd be kinda weird if they could do that without a human soul, if it works anything like it did in undertale.

[@callmesnowboo]

@@TwilightFlower9 wow, didnt even remember that we overwrite their file

[@Slyze]

Genuinely some of the best DELTARUNE content on the platform.

[@the_demon149]

THANK YOU for articulating exactly why I hate the all the 3 souls theories so much. I haven’t been able to put it into words, but everything you said about how stripping all of Kris’s agency and narrative importance from them to keep them innocent or easy to understand was wasting their potential was exactly what I was thinking.

[@aghitsaplane4262]

It's heavily implied in Undertale that the Gaster followers/Goners might actually be the fractured pieces of gasters soul taking the shape of people he once worked with (people who are still alive in game) and when deltarune was close to release you could find a monster in Undertale who morphed into their goner counterpart to relay a message If Kris really does have part of gasters soul then it would at least somewhat explain as to why making a goner vessel that looks strangely like Kris(no matter what Customisation option you pick)is the first thing we do gaster can't exist due to his broken body and soul so he requires a literal vessel,the vessel being Kris,to interact with the world

[@christopherw6793]

I think the "is Kris soulless" question is missing a third option- Kris' soul might have been stolen and replaced with the player's. This would explain why he's a normal kid right up until the player comes into the picture, and doesn't deal with any two-soul wierdness.

[@rpgryder1886]

Is the player controlling the soul not the same as that, but with more plot continuity? Since the whole puppeteering thing wouldn't make any sense, and the player wouldn't rip out his own soul? The player is obviously going along with this, they aren't trying to escape normally, and they even put there soul back. The only thing I could see is that the player at first didn't want to be here, and tried to rip out there soul and escape, but when they realized that would just leave them a soulless husk, they decided to accept there body, putting the soul back in. Completely undermines spamton neo's cautionary tale tho.

[@leedlelel2373]

@@rpgryder1886 "the player ripped their soul out" You do know that by the player people arent referring to someone literally named "the player" right? By the player everyone is talking about you, the one who plays the game and your commands We didnt make the choice to rip our soul out, so it couldnt have been us lmao

[@abcdef-ms9mb]

I like this option because it opens up new alleys of interpretation of Kris, but also of potential significance of the Vessel in the end

[@seaweednori7652]

@@rpgryder1886 we are the player

[@snes4781]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYicZZ1sltmUi6M

[@Dorked]

Finally got around to watching this. I really appreciate how thorough you were in exploring all the possibilities. Honestly, I agree with you- the idea of a third entity would cheapen the whole experience, and I feel like it'd muddy the whole metanarrative with Kris vs the player. As for the shambling and soullessness, I think the key difference is Flowey is a flower given consciousness via dust and DT, whereas humans are supposed to have souls, so the behavior would probably be different as a result- or it could simply be that Kris' funky movements is due to them struggling for control to pry the soul out in the first place and it being a painful procedure, since the shambling happens even before they tear out the soul (e.g. getting outta bed, shaking at the sink). With all that said, I also agree that "Who is Kris?" is a super important question, and that's part of why I think the whole third entity angle cheapens things. It just feels like a level of complexity that is unnecessary. Especially when it hasn't been adequately foreshadowed. Also, we talked about this on discord a bit, but I think Snowgrave can be explained without a third entity or a secret agenda if we consider how important Susie is to Kris. Susie is very brash and not one to follow orders blindly, and she's also smart enough to notice when Kris is not doing well. When she rejoins the party after Noelle leaves, she picks up on Kris' distress and tries to comfort them. She does the same thing with them after Spamton in the normal run. Multiple choices throughout the game show how important Susie is to Kris, independent of the player, and when Susie left the party, we were able to manipulate Noelle into starting the weird route in the first place. So, consider: Kris learns any lightner can make a dark fountain. If they make their own fountain, with Susie and Toriel there, they're doing a risky gambit that at least guarantees Susie and Toriel will be right there to see if anything goes wrong, along with the police being on the way.

[@TheQuantumParticle]

23:43. I've been waiting SO LONG for someone to say that.

[@IrvingIV]

Honestly the homestuck music is extremely fitting, these lore implications are equally insane.

[@Dorked]

Haha, heard my video's thumbnail was mentioned here, so I just wanna clarify in case there was any confusion- I definitely don't think Kris is 100% a pure snowflake and I definitely think there's a LOT to consider and unpack with them. I simply don't think Kris is THE big bad a lot of people were making them out to be post-Chapter 2 release. (That being said, while I haven't finished this video yet, just looking at the length is very impressive and I look forward to sitting down properly to watch because we need more thorough and nuanced analysis of Kris, and I definitely think it's way too easy for people in the fandom to lean on hard black and white morality in general.) Will probably leave a better comment on the analysis once I've had time to sit through and formulate some thoughts. :)

[@andrew_cunningham]

Oh shit... I didn't really think through the implications of using your video like that. I was coming up to the end of the editing process and was getting desperate for props, so I just grabbed a bunch of thumbnails that fit the bill. There's nothing in your video I actually disagree with, to be clear, so putting it in such an unflattering context was just me not using my brain. Sorry about that.

[@Dorked]

@@andrew_cunningham Hey, if it makes you feel any better, I'm not particularly upset! More I just hope other people don't get the wrong idea is all. If anything, it's free promotion in that it draws attention to the video. Appreciate the apology all the same, tho, and I do look forward to giving your vid a proper look as soon as I get a good opportunity to do so.

[@OhSoUnicornly]

"just looking at the length is very impressive" Just going to take this out of context and leave it here ;)

[@Dorked]

@@OhSoUnicornly I'm asexual. I don't always catch stuff like that when I type these comments. :u

[@OhSoUnicornly]

@@Dorked Hey me too, high five! Though if anything I've now become hyper-aware of innuendo for some reason... :D

[@CasualSunGod42]

THE CEAVE GAMING REFERENCE AT 26:37 THOUGH Very fun analysis. Third entity theories can definitely get messy. I personally think that the narrator and choice selections might have an in-universe source, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Kris has a third SOUL. Can't wait for this 29% complete game to be 71% complete so we can have more evidence to pull from.

[@OddpepperL]

The gaster GIF truly changed my life. Thank you Andrew

[@John-bb4zm]

oh hey, toriel's line made it in there after all! ive spent a little bit of time on it, maybe theres something in here that someone else hasnt already said there are a few different ways to interpret chris zoning out in the past -kris has ripped their soul out before -kris got depressed and liked to go off on their own before -kris had absence seizures in the past or something equivalent where they'd say... stand in a bathroom for 20 minutes washing their hands constantly with no memory of the events afterwards -any combination of the above, including misdiagnosis of any of those three i guess plus theres the possibility that the player was always kris in the sense that the player is always master chief or laura croft or the last dragonborn before the actual game starts, and nothing significant changes between kris's past and the start of chapter 1, making it all the gaster and connection shit a huge fakeout...

[@samu99tv24]

I would like to point the attention to a theory about the humans in undertale, we might actually have more examples of humans without a soul aside from Chara in that game, in the castle's basement we can see the coffins that contained the bodies of the humans that came before Frisk, all having a differently coloured soul on it, representative of what soul that human had, but if after a true pacifist we go back to the same basement we can see that all of the coffins are open, which is kind of akward to say the least, it gives us the allegory of liberation, yes, but from a storywise point of view it is quite strange since they should be "dead" and the souls of those bodies were kept in jars in front of the barrier, therefore some people have concluded that after Asriel releases all of the souls he had, the souls of the humans come back to their original bodies and reanimates them. Obviously, from what we know it would be hard to believe that their bodies didn't decay in the years, but as we can deduce from the text after inspecting Chara's coffin, they were probably mummified, or, as another school of thought puts it, they might not be dead at all, just soulless; if Kris can take out their own soul out, maybe someone else might do it to them, possibly with help of some machine, which would not be too far fetched since the presence of the "Determination Extractor" in the true lab. To put it simply, Humans might be able to "live" without a soul, but just in a limited way, maybe the more they stay without, the less they can function, thus creating the need to have a soul in the first place, Chara too is a soulless human, wich at least gives us the confirmation that humans can be soulless, making Kris shambling around without a soul at least plausible. On a side note it might be that Kris' soul is damaged in some way and needs another to keep himself together, but this is basically baseless. Also, talking about the chapter one select screen, it gives me the impression the Gaster is using that menu to conduct an experiment of sorts with (maybe not) three different souls that are not connected in any way to each other, but act as a conduit for the timeline we want to play in. Basically we, the player, tell Gaster what we want to do and he connects us to the soul that belongs to the save file we choose, so it would be less of "Kris has three souls" and more of "There are three different souls that control three different timelines with three different Kris in them", so it is not Kris that has three souls, but us, the player, that can control three different ones, with some help from Gaster. That said, your videos are awesome, they are masterfully crafted, I had been waiting for this one for a while and I'm looking forward to the next one.

[@ucnguyen6375]

Chara's body was brought to the Ruin by Toriel and buried in the exact spot where Frisk felt down, that's why the coffin is empty

[@samu99tv24]

@@ucnguyen6375 not talking about Chara's coffin here, I'm talking about the other six

[@johnlewis2134]

One nitpick I have is that we don't know what happened to the humans in the coffins. We know Chara's coffin is empty because Toriel took their body to the ruins, but the other coffins are never opened, nor are we able to interact with them ever.

[@samu99tv24]

@@johnlewis2134 that is why this is a theory, since we can never interact with the coffins directly, we can only observe that they are open once we complete the true pacifist route and closed otherwise, we know that the Human souls are not in those coffins because they are stored elsewhere, so we are left with the question:"what is in those coffins and why do they open?", we can infer that in those coffins are the bodies of the other humans because Chara was put in one after her death, and only afterwards she was brought to the ruins, and also because, well, they're coffins, what are you gonna put in them? Then to answer the second question we either have that the bodies reanimated themselves with their own souls and crawled out of the coffins or someone for some random reason opened those coffins, between the two options I prefer the former, since makes more sense storywise

[@ethanbodin7083]

Two more possibilities ,undead children and they asended and the bodies are in the afterlife.

[@pyrobomb3161]

I believe a theory that Kris had a soul prior to the game but ours kicked it out (or forced into that position) and ties a few points together as he might be searching the dark world for a trace of his soul

[@beeshark222]

Explains the deleted save file

[@plazma0325]

Yeah, the "Kris doesn't have a SOUL" line should really branch off into "Were they always soulless or did they lose it".

[@britt7120]

they🤓🫵

[@pyrobomb3161]

@@britt7120 >:(

[@acornmaybe]

Timestamped every single song in the description, what a legend

[@YouMayKnowMeAsNate]

21:26 Let’s take a moment to appreciate that the google doc is called “I think the third soul in Deltarune represents pain”

[@medea__witchhh]

omg ive watched this video so many times n ive only notice this now tf

[@sportingslippers3256]

What an impressive video honestly. All of the theories and lore are explained eloquently, the humor is good without being overbearing, the editing is FANTASTIC for your second ever video essay… I look forward to whatever you work on next.

[@krazyivan9733]

I do like how you made the point that Kris behaves exactly the same regardless of Snowgrave. It's an important detail.

[@person-8221]

17:54 I HEARD THAT

[@Rakkiankh]

I definitely follow the one soul theory, specifically that the player took over Kris's. The moral conflict it brings is incredibly interesting, and adding a third entity just creates a scapegoat to push the player's bad decisions onto. It's the main problem with Chara, since they have been reduced to the True Evil to a large chunk of the playerbase. If there was a third entity shoved into Kris it would end almost exactly the same. I've always thought Toby felt he didn't get his point across clearly enough in Undertale and decided to be even more blatant in Deltarune. I've definitely loved how Toby has expanded it so far.

[@unoriginal2552]

If player feel bad about action, player will find a way to blame it on someone else.

[@asocksual4910]

Deltarune-flavored wild mass guessing aside, I am loving all the visual puns in these vids! also those lil soul sprites are adorable. i also greatly appreciate the reflection on what makes deltarune exciting to you, as i've found that super-intense theorizing tends to miss the forest for the trees a lot in that department

[@paulokhayat]

15:22 LMAO this reference cracked me up Your videos editing are truly something else, both the pacing and the visual throwaways, can't wait to see more!

[@JadeTheAdventurer]

CLOSE

[@missingnumberaxolotl-9079]

I have an idea about kris’ soulless behavior. Humans have been soulless before, and we can see that in undertale’s pacifist route, when you check the basement with all the coffins. You can actually see that they have been OPENED after the Barrier was opened. So if they were soulless, like Flowey, why were THEY in coffins and not skedaddling about? Well, that must mean that humans, who are mostly physical, would rely on their souls more than monsters, as they are very powerful and are probably vital for humans to function, while soulless monsters, like Flowey, don’t entirely rely on the soul, which equals limitation to feeling but not life.

[@arandomthingintheabyss2062]

ya there is also the fact that kris was born without a soul were flowey had a soul while kris who was born without one would have a chance to be given the things a soul could give

[@MirrorHall_Clay]

There's also the fact that Flowey is a special case... He's an inanimate object brought to life by the combination of monster dust and determination; the whole reason monsters turn to dust is because their souls are needed to retain their form, but Flowey's form doesn't need that.

[@arandomthingintheabyss2062]

@@MirrorHall_Clay ya so in short it a combination of the fact on the side kris is human born without a soul on the flowey side it the fact he an object and tdhe only thing keeping him running is dt also the fact he had a soul

[@missingnumberaxolotl-9079]

@@arandomthingintheabyss2062 I think Kris was born with a soul, humans literally need those to survive. I believe we, the player, either kicked theirs out or simply took over theirs

[@arandomthingintheabyss2062]

@@missingnumberaxolotl-9079 we only know that for monster sense humans are more solid then monsters they can probably live without a soul tho maybe survive would be a better word to use

[@AlphaPizzadog]

Kris has 2 souls because Kris is ACTUALLY SOLLUX FROM HOMESTUCK

[@MxPokirby]

Finally, a sensible take. 😌

[@JokieJesterE]

Case closed. We finally figured it out.

[@bugdracula1662]

We’ve never seen kris type a message so we don’t know their typing quirk

[@paradoxicaloutcome1007]

@@bugdracula1662 Imagine if we finally have Kris speak after chapters of build-up and their dialogue is written in fucking Mituna's typing quirk.

[@leoshe2211]

This is simultaneously the funniest, most well-produced, yet thought-provoking Deltarune video I've seen so far. Incredible. 4:07 is hilarious

[@hepic2874]

I think you're on about the bit where it cuts to a wasteland. In case you don't know, that is from ds3 at the end of the world (is dlc) But I'm sure you do know, and it is funny.

[@XplosiveAction]

After rewinding several times and essentially spending an hour watching less, funny enough I don’t have much else to say other than, you probably did the best thing you could’ve done to answer this question, which is to provide evidence towards every possible answer, lol. However your conclusion is something that I agree with and thought of the whole time, I never really thought of the idea of a third soul, and it would seem to be introducing too many things to explain into a video game without it coming across as Convoluted and messy, as you said, we don’t even understand why Kris does what they do in the chapters endings, although it seems evident that we, controlling the soul, are interfering with what Kris wants to do (which is apparently very malicious but perhaps out of loneliness. Slashing the tires for a sleepover to be with someone for once). Honestly I kind of AM wondering what the implications are for that text box. I don't really get why it would upend most of your arguements, because like you said, you want to know more about Kris as a character rather than assuming that Kris is like frisk and requires X number of souls to be the way they were before we play the game. Now, I forget the context behind WHEN/WHERE Toriel says that text box dialogue, but to me it sounds like it's giving us what you said (and I also want), which is a better understanding of Kris's nature, even if that nature is causing trouble doing things that you MIGHT say are "Chara-Like". Regardless, this video is edited fantastically and I completely see where the months of effort have gone. Mentioning the green pause menu text is probably one of the strongest pieces of evidence that we have right now about what’s going on behind the scenes. Thank you for making such a great video, it was really enjoyable to watch and I can’t wait for the next one. Also thanks for reading every comment including essay-long comments like mine, lol.

[@Groovysmoothies5]

6:05 It’s also possible that Kris used to have a soul of their own that was somehow “swapped out” with the players soul. This would ensure that they had a soul before we arrived and that they only have one soul in their body after we arrive.

[@orangeonion5259]

Last thing I'll point out is that the nature of "SOUL" is unknown both in Undertale and Deltarune, as in its function, something I feel we will find out given the library books opening it up. I'd want to reread everything from the Snowdin books, what Chara said and Alphys' lab entries Not to even get started on Noelle and Sans because that's a WHOLE rabbit hole on its own. We have a LOT of unanswered questions and unknowns as of now, and its really hard to put it all together in a meaningful way that doesn't hinge on complete speculation and fantasy.

[@epicparade1]

Peak deltarune content. Love the gaster melody put in when you said 'very, very interesting' The passion, intelligence and effort shines through so strongly. I love the questions you ask in the final section

[@orangeonion5259]

Also, the narration in the Main Menu changes when a fountain is closed, meaning the closing of the fountain somehow caused the narrator to change regarding SAVE files. Some have said its Chara by virtue of no one else being able to be a narrator

[@juusokurttila8037]

Thanks for the Gaster-GIF in the middle. Loved this video ❤

[@jetstreamjackie3437]

From the gameplay language, I can intuit that the soul is a little red heart that controls your actions and is linked to your health. That’s really all you need. My money’s on there being just one soul, Kris’ soul, that we forcefully take control of. This ain’t Kingdom Hearts, souls aren’t containers for other souls. It just doesn’t make sense in this context.

[@mayo_nnais3]

12:30 I have seen everything now. I feel fulfilled.

[@ashencometmom5291]

i feel similarly about the idea of a third entity. thinking about what other person could be doing these actions that seem out of character for kris, it's much more interesting to think about why the hell kris does these things that are out of character for them. if it's not at all impacted by the route you take in ch2, or by the reveal of the roaring, just how important, subjectively or objectively, could their reason for opening the fountain be

[@imjustrai]

20:24 wait, doesnt Omega Flowey have 6 save files? You know, one for each of the souls he absorbed?

[@Yodah97]

On the subject of flowey being less physically affected, we can chalk that up to his vessel being fundamentally different. Monster bodies are apparently made from magic in Undertale, and flowey himself is this weird freak flower mutant thing.

[@e5_]

27:15 the third enity being Jerma is possible because toby watches jerma. This is my Kris theory from now on.

[@MegaLpso]

The strange thing is that apparently have been with Kris for a long time because of how beat up the cage we are keeped inside at the first chapter

[@guffthebir72]

25:50 saying "oh its gaster is the deafult at this point.

[@weaverisdog3581]

3:05 "a seemingly bottomless quagmire" Oh who else but Quantum Physics

[@meepwagon8031]

12:37 Gaster, taking a break from his work, looking at this gif: 👁👄👁

[@bcefkm]

A few notes: The contrast between Kris and Frisk as protagonists reminds me of Oneshot's explanation for why you can't be a horrible person: because Niko, the protagonist, is not a horrible person, and only choses to follow your instructions because achieving any of their goals is impossible without knowledge from beyond the fourth wall. There could be an argument on the Gaster soul that if we go with the "deltarune is Gasters fanfiction he made in the void", which would tie a nice bow together with Gaster managing save files (as, you know, he would kind of have to be the one upholding these rules in this theory) and would be probably the best argument for a third soul. Still though, there is no reason to tie the third soul into this and the Gaster fanfiction is more of a meme than anything else. Officially, the third soul theory still sucks even with this interpretation. It is kind of concerning seeing how the third soul theory seemed to get immediately pointed at Chara, who doesn't even have a spot in the story where they could fit in. I get that all the creepy times the player got kicked out of control in Undertale were from Chara, but this character would only do so if you killed everyone, and they have enough lore to where I don't think they are a stand-in for the player, because you would have to say that throughout Asriel's backstory it was not a normal human being but the player character without a player, which just makes it odd picturing an expressionless t-posing Chara in an emotional backstory.(look I know that isn't what the theory is about but I don't think a player model would commit suicide or even do anything without a player) I think the most likely of the three sane theories on this is that Kris got their soul controlled by us because I think Kris probably does not normally shamble like a zombie, and why would they ever put our soul back in if they could not function without it? Okay I am under the belief that, while the one soul theory is probably what's going to happen, there could be that Kris had a soul of their own, but it got ousted for some reason, possibly due to us coming in but could be unrelated. Again I think that Kris got their soul controlled by us, because it leaves Kris as a normal person before us, but not a normal person without us, which explains both past and current events. I had a much easier time writing deltarune fan speculation than writing literally anything without a prompt.

[@orifasasos8100]

Maybe the soul belongs to Kris and they just can take it away for a short period, but this affect them in some way(because after all is literally their soul) and explains the weird way to walk.

[@jayv9070]

I just want you to know that every single second of this video gave me dopamine. I love your voice, I love the way you present topics, I love your editing, everything! I enjoy your Deltarune videos so much and wish they were longer.

[@floreskyle1]

That last bit you have... it reminds me of Red from Transistor. Red is not a silent protagonist, she just can't speak because her voice has been taken by the Transistor. Throughout the game, the only thing we know of Red is her overly increasing worry for her own and her sword boyfriend's own well being, the only time we see this is through the terminals Red can use to type and talk to sword boyfriend, as again she can't speak because of the Transistor taking her voice. Because of this many people thought that Red's motivation for still continuing the journey as is and going after the Camerata is to save Cloudbank. Well, we never get actual confirmation in the game as she can't speak till' the credit's end, but her entire motivation has always been finding a way to reunite with her boyfriend whose consciousness been transferred to a sword. Well... long story short Kris too has their own motivations, surely there must be. Outside of the preconceived notions of so many players of what Kris will, might, or possibly do. Kris is just Kris.

[@ucnguyen6375]

Recently I just watched a video about the Dark aspect of the Mother series, also known as Earthbound, which heavily inspired Toby Fox. And I think that some influence of Mother 3 may inspire this whole soul thing with Kris Spoiler for Mother 3, I guess. In Mother 3, the main character Lucas and his brother are destined to pull 7 needles to awake an ancient dragon. Depend on the Heart of those who pull the needles, the dragon will be transformed accordingly. The interesting thing is, Lucas 's brother died in the early game, but was revived by the villian so he had no heart at all, and according to the creator of the game, if a person with no heart pull the needles to awake the dragon, every single life included the dragon will just stop existing. In Deltarune, we know from Queen that the dark fountain is created by focusing your determination on your weapon and stab the ground, the dark fountain will then reflected the will of those who created it [Queen told Noelle to use the pin (Royal Pin) she gave her to do that so armor items could do this too not just weapon]. At Kris's home, Kris pull out the soul, the [Heart shape object] before opening the fountain. So what will happen to the dark fountain created by a being with no soul at all, is the fountain still reflect the will or not, and where is the source of determination to create the fountain in the first place

[@bbfreak10000]

That sounds really interesting. Hope chapter 3 goes down that route

[@nethowarrior3294]

I accidentally mixed up the plot points of the heart of people pulling the needles with people making Dark Fountains and wasted fifteen minutes.

[@LilacMonarch]

The only problem i see with that is Claus is described as acting like a robot, having no will of his own and merely following orders (presumably related to how he was revived) and it is only changed by whatever metaphysical stuff Hinawa was doing to communicate from the other side. But the point is, him having "no heart" is directly tied to him essentially being a puppet. This is at odds with Deltarune, where Kris is the player's puppet when he DOES have a soul. He only acts on his own after removing it.

[@alyssanotfound1669]

To support the "we are controlling Kris’s soul" theory: In undertale, just like you said, we don’t know basically *anything* about Frisk. We don’t know anything about her parents, her backstory, her home life, nothing. I believe that’s because Frisk was made for us. Frisk is a vessel for the player to create a story for us. In deltarune, we actually get backstory about’s Kris’s life and her family and friends and from that, you can conclude that *Kris has a soul because she has a life outside the storyline.* In regards to flowey٫ he is not a good example for someone with no soul٫ because the reason why he’s fine without one is because *his form can live without one.* Souls are usually represented by a heart, but plants don’t need hearts to live. They use photosynthesis(you could also say that “flowers can’t live without sunlight so flowey being fine still doesn’t make sense” but Asgore’s flowers are just fine so idk man I don’t think logic *completely* applies here). In pacifist ending, since he has the six souls flowey (or Asriel in this case) is human again. When he is defeated, he only stays human for a little bit because the human form can only exist if the vessel has a soul. This not only explains why flowey is fine, but also why Kris puts the soul back in. Because she can’t exist without it. Flowey still does not have feelings and does immoral actions though, just like Kris without their human soul, So I can see why people would assume that the soul is ours or that there *has* to be a third entity. Sorry if this was long I just like stating my opinion lol

[@ShayyTV]

Hey look mom there I am! 31:29

[@andrew_cunningham]

Damn. Not only have you watched this, for some reason, but you commented within the first _1000 views._ Respect. Also, thanks for your involuntary contribution to the essay I guess. There really was no other clip that would have cemented that point better than your comically fast mashing- trust me, I thought about it for longer than I care to admit.

[@RichConnerGMN]

@@andrew_cunningham -totally not because i pointed it out to him-

[@andrew_cunningham]

@@RichConnerGMN Hey I saw you were making TASs and shit. You're cool too.

[@zyansheep]

Oh hey, I just saw your deltarune snowgrave speedrun!

[@embrefrosste6044]

I think that Kris’s soul does belong to Kris, but during the incident in the Bunker south of town, his soul was modified to receive the player’s commands. Or if it isn’t Kris’s soul, maybe Kris’s original was even replaced with the player soul in a similar incident. Most likely by Gaster, because of all the hints that Gaster has some connection to the Bunker. I also think that before the start of Deltarune and the connection being fully established, Kris would receive nonsensical “commands” that would make him do strange things or nothing at all for extended periods of time, and that this has to do with why Kris even has the birdcage in his room to begin with: I believe he has experience with ripping out his soul to regain control, from well before the beginning of Chapter 1. Both because of the bird cage, and because of Toriel saying “Kris does this sometimes” at the end of Chapter 2.

[@ZenoPyrio]

This video is great, I love how the fakeouts are written and feel like Toby Fox wrote them himself. I saw a theory from Demented Duskull about who the knight could be and it mentioned Kris opening the fountain in their house in an attempt to draw out the knight, because in the other dark worlds, the knight not only made them, but seemingly also altered various things against you. With Kris opening the fountain, the Knight probably won't be able to do all that and still remain anonymous. This would explain why Kris opens the fountain in Snowgrave as well as Neutral, as he would want to find the Knight to stop the dark worlds from being created. That is assuming the whole thing isn't going to be another fakeout like Chapter 1's ending was.

[@smivan.]

Your editing and musical choices are impeccable, very fun video.