Ex-Evangelical Frank Schaeffer Denounces Michele Bachmann & Calls Her Movement Anti-American

[@joethehero2]

THANK YOU! As a Liberal Christian, I am freaking glad to see someone else say that being religious doesn't make you an insane fundamentalist.

[@brucevenable507]

No such thing as a liberal Christian, that is an oxymoron. It's like saying that you are a sodomite Christian.

[@mariomoncole103]

Submission LITERALLY means the opposite of respect.

[@RATIONALMIND001]

It sounds like the Christian version of Islam! KEEP RELIGION OUT OF GOVERNMENT!

[@AstralFrost]

Patriotism is pretty nonsensical in its most common conception. I hate being told that I need to be a "patriot". What does that mean? Does it mean I have to support a president or prime minister even if they're criminal thugs? Come on.

[@RATIONALMIND001]

This chap really tells it as it is. It's time for Rational Government, leave your religion at home.

[@bammbamm12]

If I think that eating dog poop is disgusting, does this make me a "canine-poop-a-phobe"?

[@MisfitGracie4]

🤣🤣😬

[@CherubimandAngels]

THIS IS A MUST SEE VIDEO!!!!! I hope every American who loves his or her country sees this.

[@maryhollingsworth7137]

I would never vote for Michelle Bauchmann, but it's hard to see how she could come from a culture of making babies and homeschooling for women, complete submission to husbands AND have a political career like she does.

[@snoopy0577]

You should really research our present form of government .... I'ts not that hard to prop up a puppet if you have enough money/power

[@maryhollingsworth7137]

snoopy0577 Well, maybe so.

[@maryhollingsworth7137]

Well, I would not compare it to the Taliban. Have you been over there??

[@tracer740]

snoopy0577 It is being done, the past 40 years, ... in spades!

[@rapauli]

Still a great message. More important than ever,

[@GeorgeZwierzchowskipianomusic]

someone once tried to sell me on francis schaefer philosophical analysis, and when i got to his critique of soren kierkegaard i knew he was criticising evangelicalisms greatest thinker. he just didnt understand kierkegaards writtings. he did the same to dietrich bonhoeffer. i had to write him off as a self declared philosopher. he was simply wrong. and because of him, no evangelicals have read "fear and trembling" or "the cost of discipleship". books that have become Christian classics.

[@mlasky814]

Frank Schaeffer uses a "box" approach that assumes that individuals can be categorized according to titles, whether those titles be "evangelical Christian" or "Republican" or Democrat" or "American" - and that everyone under that title has the same viewpoint and set of values. This is simply not true - individuals hold individual viewpoints in any of these "classifications". His argument is based on too many assumptions and generalizations.

[@Astrobrant2]

If Bachmann can re-define "submission" as "mutual respect," then she can also re-define "Christian theocracy" as "democracy", "religion" as "science", and "myth" as "history."

[@scotpainter5711]

Poor Frank. He needs his daddy. Must've bumped his head or something.

[@Yakovlievich]

No, he's a whistleblower for our time.

[@scotpainter5711]

it's obvious he's blowing something. maybe a little crack. I don't know.

[@Yakovlievich]

scot Painter No, he's exposed the religious right for the evil, odious force that it is.

[@scotpainter5711]

dude! you are talking about me. So you are saying I'm evil. Francis Schaffer, the dad, was a big influence in my life. I have a family with great kids, pay my taxes, love this country, law abiding, and you say I am odious and evil. I've never intentionally hurt anyone. These are the values Francis Schaffer taught. So why the vitriol?

[@dwolfcoach]

scot Painter Why the vitriol? Because your ilk, tax paying or not, want to take this country back to the dark ages where religion and its influence were intolerant and bigoted. If that doesn't represent you, then speak up, or you're no better than the parishioners of the Catholic church that remained silent when an army of child rapists had their way. The Taliban loves their children and their countries too.

[@MichaelFergusonVideos]

You are doing good work-- Democracy Now and Frank Schaffer both.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter Suicide can be a good thing. It's not legal but I think assisted suicide should be everyone's right when medically warranted. It's also damned hard to punished those who violate that law. You asked " Have you seen a picture of a fetus?" Oh no, I've been living in a fucking dark cave for 66 years.

[@bammbamm12]

@bushputz - news flash - a wall of separation between church and state is not in the constitution. All the constitution says is that the state will not interfere with religion. In other words, religion can do whatever it wants and the state can't do anything about it - it's not their business.

[@MaximusWolfe]

this idea that embracing homosexuality and multiculturalism for the sake of multiculturalism is some how more American is vacuous and bizarre. This guy used to be a very edifying figure-time has served him poorly it seems.

[@oostrumoo]

You have cursed your father and brought shame to your mother. God have mercy on you, Frank Schaefer. Your Dad was a great man. I am glad he is not here to see you this way.

[@MisfitGracie4]

I feel the same way. First saw this wimp on a mainstream news site ( I only watched it because of his name). He left me feeling sick 🤢. He said horrible things about his parents and their lives work. He came across as a very angry person .

[@publicatdamagnificen]

Jesus Himself said "My kingdom is NOT of this world'. These people quote a Bible that they don't even know!!

[@xander7ful]

He says she part of a fringe of the fringe. But I don't think Dominionists are as fringe as you think. Their influence on the Church, through music & other media, is HUGE. They may be fringe but their voice is very influential.

[@suvariboy]

And scary.

[@CJ-rf9jm]

Thier actions are fringe and insanely dangerous. Those who participate in it are disgusting.

[@yeoberry]

"The real truth is that Franky, as he then called himself, was spoiled. He was more like a poster child for Benjamin Spock than the son of "fundamentalist missionaries." . . . He was rarely challenged, disciplined, or denied. As a result, he grew up a "little Napoleon,". . .In sum, the combination of neglect, guilt, nepotism, and spoiling was a toxic brew." (OS GUINNESS, Fathers and Sons, On Francis Schaeffer, Frank Schaeffer, and Crazy for God.)

[@yeoberry]

According to OS GUINNESS, who lived with the Schaeffers and was Frank's best man, in "Fathers and Sons", On Francis Schaeffer, Frank Schaeffer, and Crazy for God, this same Frank Schaeffer is a typical example of a spoiled kid who is now dishonoring his parents. Perhaps this espousal of "orthodoxy", is part of that.

[@MisfitGracie4]

Agree 💯

[@vinnie97]

@bushputz the separation of church and state clause doesn't exist in the constitution, as it was a letter from Jefferson to a church explaining that the church's matters would not be impeded by the govt. The Founders (deists and Christians alike) did believe in the benefit of a moral and religiously grounded society. I completely agree with you about the Patriot Act and suspension of habeas corpus (torture has shown to be useful), but the Left in power hasn't exactly reversed any of this.

[@bammbamm12]

@cabecarpenter - No, no no. It's more than that. It says the government will make no law. Did you just make up the words "peaceful practice"? I don't see it there. All I see is the government having nothing to say about it. If government gets in religion's way it should step aside and say, "Excuse me. After you...".

[@Adipatus]

That was kickass.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter Now you're referring to a fetus as child. No integrity at all. No my opinion doesn't define when a fetus becomes human, the law does and it isn't at conception. I have no problem with restrictiing abortions to the first trimester except in cases where the mother's health is in jeopardy, in those case it should be a medical decision and not the decision a bunch of people who are not involved or knowledgeable of the situation.

[@MisfitGracie4]

The law doesn’t have the right to define when a fetus is a human being!!! This conversation is full of holes!! Dogs have puppies; cats have kittens; humans have human babies!!!

[@dimbulb23]

The law should protect people from fools like you who think they have the right to tell others what to do with their body. If you don't want to have an abortion.. don't have one. You may think you understand everything but I have the right think you just another religious nutjob.

[@jeffreyc.mcandrew8911]

Submission of women is not something we should be striving for.

[@bammbamm12]

@pimpdalyrical = Correct. And if there were slaves today, they'd say, "Personally I'm against slavery, but who am I to inflict my morality upon others?".

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter The way I used "assume" was in the context of a hypothetical. Do you know what that means? Apparently you didn't in this case. Choosing life is wonderful. Did it myself. It's making the choice for someone else that I'm against. I can't personally imagine ever making a different choice but then I haven't been in a situation where my wife was raped or where the choice was wife or birth or birth or ruined life. Those things happen all the time.

[@gracecurl1]

All Franks books are available on Kindle.

[@cabecarpenter]

@dimbulb23 This is what the first amendment to the constitution says about the separation of church and state: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The constitution doesn't seem to promote the separation of church and state, merely forbids restrictions on...

[@dimbulb23]

@bammbamm12 No I don't want the government to use force against religion, I want the government to do what is constitutional and neither prohibit nor promote one religious view over another. I don't like religion but I respect other people rights to practice it. That is not to say that I respect the nonsense they believe.

[@cabecarpenter]

@bammbamm12 The first amendment doesn't say anything about what religion can or can't do to the goverment, it only prohibits the government from restricting the peaceful practice thereof.

[@MrcraigyMouse49]

Did you ever read anything that Francis Schaeffer wrote? Did you know his parents? Are you sure he's telling the truth about his parents? They are not here to defend themselves, but their books are. I suggest you read them.

[@MisfitGracie4]

Francis and Edith Schaeffer were wonderful people who loved others and loved their Lord Jesus Christ. They did a lot of great things for others. Frank jr is just a brat.

[@dimbulb23]

@bammbamm12 "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State...." Thomas Jefferson Jan. 1, 1802

[@youngbuck189]

She frightens me.

[@cabecarpenter]

@dimbulb23 My Mother always said: NEVER assume, it makes an ass out of me and you. The killing of an unborn baby is always wrong no matter how inconvenient giving birth is. Which is worse? Killing a little baby in the womb or giving birth to the baby. Which is more beautiful? Which is better psychologically? Which is more honorable? The answer is obvious. An aborted baby is not a beautiful thing. But, a newborn baby is beautiful! Choose life, and be a voice for the voiceless.

[@northwestprof60]

There is nothing so strident or "fundamentalist" than the anti-fundamentalist, fundamentalist. His personal animus is easy to explain, since his 180 says, in effect, he admits he has been "duped" by the Christian fundamentalists. But given the huge, almost infinite tent that now contains what we now call "Americans," to call virtually ANYbody or ANYthing "anti-american" is to engage in foolishness. Frank is a fun novel writer but weak in his thinking. He needs to step back a ways...I'm guessing only lots of time will heal his wounds. Of course the far right is loony tunes, but so are about 75% of all Americans....but they're still Americans.

[@yeoberry]

True, they are fallible. That's why ultimately we have to rely on the Bible, written by men appointed by God and inspired by the Holy Spirit. It appears that all of the Church "Father's" prior to the fourth century strictly opposed the use of icons. Therefore, any church that uses icons in worship cannot be considered Apostolic.

[@FallaciesDetective]

He has a right to have his opinion- but as a matter of fact: he sounds so intelligent, but he is the true fool. He does not understand Christianity- he mocks and despises his own parents, he talks mumbo-jumbo and mixes truly weird positions with true things- and at the end calls it altogether crazy. He is like a brat, sorry to say. His father is a true American hero, though... the supposedly "idiotic guy" will be the wise guy in the end. It's the one who gave life to Frank. Frank claims to b

[@MisfitGracie4]

His father and mother were wonderful people who did great things!!!

[@JamesBondClark]

Poor Franky, lived in the shadows of his dad, now does all he can to defuse the teachings of his dad. So much for Honor your Parents.

[@cabecarpenter]

@bammbamm12 1st amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." so... "the right of the people PEACABLY to assemble"

[@recioru]

Frank Schaeffer needs to repent for denouncing God. Lord have mercy on his soul for turning away from God.

[@Fundemons]

Cute

[@s9z9s]

Yes, the debate over abortion is something that absolutely came out of nowhere over the past two decades. It's not as if abortion was essentially banned in 80% of the country before the biggest act of judicial extremism in American history, Roe v. Wade.

[@ohbuddyiliketowatch]

i really want to buy this mans book

[@catsnchords]

@armyveteran101st homeschooling may have its disadvantages, but public schooling has it's own share of cons. I was public school educated and will do the same for my kids, but I have no problem with people who choose to homeschool because it is their constitutional right and I'm not a fascist or socialist who wants to control people's education.

[@MisfitGracie4]

Our students have been dumbed down for decades!!! They graduate without being able to read, write, or do simple math!!! But they are indoctrinated!!

[@MisfitGracie4]

Frank Schaeffer is a huge disappointment from what his parents were!! Very sad to see second generation children turning against what their parents stood for and worked hard for. I read Frank, Jr , called his father a dominionist. That is absolutely not true!!! I loved and respected his parents ministry!! Shame on you Franky!

[@lustre5]

Religion makes nuts nuttier. It belongs in the private sector. That's where its protection lies. The more a politician talks about his private beliefs, the less respect I have. Just put a sock in it. It's personal.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter Assuming a fetus is a life with equal rights, it's rights end where the rights of others begins. It's rights do not restrict the rights of the human who carries it within her body. She has the right to remove it. What justification is there for restricting her rights?

[@MisfitGracie4]

Because a fetus is a human being!! No one has the right to murder a human being for “ convenience “ or “ my body, my choice “. What about the baby’s body???? Abortion was first promoted by Margaret Sanger when she started Planned Parenthood. She wanted to get rid of the black population!! Most of PP are located in poorer areas of towns. More black mothers have abortions. Even so called “reverends “, also black, encourage women to get abortions!!!

[@armyveteran101st]

@virtuousvoice I'm only judging you by your opinion as you've written it. You have a right to it, of course, but I also have a right to pass judgment on it once you make it public, and you can agree or disagree. I also believe in taxation that makes sense, and I don't oppose states rights to the extent that the 10th Amendment addresses them. I don't believe in the conservative interpretation of the states rights theory, because that interpretation IS unconstitutional.

[@cabecarpenter]

@dimbulb23 Yeah right... the right to kill your own child who is completely dependent upon you is more of a right than the right of that child to be born. Your opinion isn't what defines when a fetus actually becomes "a human." Just something to think about.

[@cabecarpenter]

@ArtetlaMusique87 Bachmann may take my vote. I'm an extreme right wing fundie. I'm not for adhering 100% to the constitution, and I'm against the instigation of Theocratic Law. I'm for amending the constitution to outlaw abortion accept in cases where the life of the mother is in danger. Bachmann is one of very few people running for president who oppose raising the debt ceiling. And for that she deserves respect. You realize that the republicans wanted to add 8,000 to our debt per person?

[@natureboihikes162]

Mrs. Goodman, I wanted to thank you for hosting such a wonderful program and also have great appreciation for your reporting and supporting the Direct Access Pipeline protests.

[@Trans909]

Carter didn't proselytize. He didn't insist that Christianity should be imposed on all people and onto the framework of the Constitution. In fact, he stated repeatedly that religion was a personal choice as he still does today. Your analogy is weak. Try again.

[@YoshimitsuBloodPedal]

@BabyIYours She also said she wanted collective bargaining rights for firefighters and police men...And has now recanted that. She also said she doesn't want Congressmen that don't actually read the Bills put before them....But used the excuse that she had been given bad info on the collective bargaining rights thing (meaning: she didn't read the bill)

[@ashleysloop]

so if submission is respect her husband shouldve respected her not wanting to do it

[@Haywerth]

@conchf Very cool comment. I was thinking the exact same thing on the way home from work. That the words "submission" and "respect" have two very different meanings and I was highly offended she conflated the two.

[@dimbulb23]

@bammbamm12 No that's it for me. You're the one spouting off about how "separation of church and state" was imaginary and I showed that Jefferson the author of the Declaration of Independence coined the term 209 years ago. it's not new, it's long established. And all that crap about government moving aside is just that... crap.

[@northoforacle]

I love this man.

[@Lrock79]

Word? I am no defender of Bachmann or the Religious Right in any respect, nor am I a Republican, with that said it sounds like to me that Frank went AWOL on Christianity because he was struggling with homosexuality and his father and those of his ilk taught him that practice was a sin, therefore Christianity is wrong, wrong, wrong. Of course I could be wrong, that's just the impression I get. Frank needs a hug.

[@bammbamm12]

Separation of Church and state is a ruse for keeping Catholics out of politics. No one makes a peep about Jewish elected officials who regularly where yarmukles, and certainly no one ever tells all the black "Reverends" embroiled in politics about this separation. But let's see what would happen if Father Flanagan tried to run for office.

[@johncotton1289]

The Bay State Colonies under Governor Winthrop were the good ole days.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter The right to believe and support whatever belief you choose without interference or support from government.

[@terceldude]

@rosiechanel I agree with #1 in what you said, but not so much #2...

[@orthodoxyify]

Speaking as an Orthodox Christian. When A blasts Bachman on not believing in contraceptives we Orthodox don't either so he mister schaeffer needs to make up a mind.

[@Fundemons]

Keep kissing your icon tollhouser

[@genevabecker8441]

GREAT QUESTION...What Michelle Bachman says about submission in her marriage being akin to respect...that could not be more BS ...it simply could not...

[@cabecarpenter]

So no, the Constitution is not something to be loved without reservations. However, the constitution does not put a wall up between Church and state - that was a Jeffersonian concept. Let us follow the good in the constitution, and amend it where we have erred.

[@magdelenedresia6232]

Duh! Orthodoxy and Catholicism are profoundly different. Are you one of those protestant movements Frank exposed years ago? Must be to react the way you have.

[@MisfitGracie4]

Only difference is a pope instead of bishops. Both have works based religion. A lot of paganism is also in the catholic and orthodox religions. Incense, special garments for the clergy, statues ( idol worship)…..

[@unifiedvision999]

Is MIchelle Bachmann's husband also submissive to her? She is talking nonsense, submissiveness of the wife to the husband in Christianity is just as bad as it sounds.

[@dancorson5822]

This guy is an angry man, angry at his father and God.

[@selfhealingjourney3363]

Franks last thought...a true prophet, we have seen it in this 2016 election. The extreme right "Christians" supporting a maniac like Donald Trump. Just doing some homework for myself, but I am grateful that these videos are so easily available. Thank you!

[@brucevenable507]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@dancorson5822]

This guy exaggerates like crazy his father was great and his son is a disappointment.

[@fauyd]

I'm confused by the boos to the Bachmann question during the debate? Just confused.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter I am not a "strict constructionist" if that's what you mean. A strict constructionists would say there is no Freedom of Privacy for instance, because it isn't spelled out in so many words. I would more likely take the stance that we are entitled to every freedom not specifically restricted by law.

[@jde1757]

The Christians and conservatives commenting here, trying desperately to dismiss Frank's legitimate criticisms of their subculture, are pathetic. Do humanity a favor; do as Frank has suggested elsewhere. Go to the hills and wait for what you believe is the inevitable end. The rest of us will get on with the business of trying to move civilization forward.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter wrote "Your comment regarding abortion - referring to a fetus as a group of cells is your attempt to devalue the unborn baby." And your use of "baby" does precisely the same thing and you did it first. How many cells does it take to constitute a baby? One? Two? 128? What?

[@MrcraigyMouse49]

Maybe we could put them in a work camp? We could re-educate them.

[@Fundemons]

Okay Hitler. Seriously psychopaths like you have no business even having a voice when you advocate this putrid form of religion

[@bammbamm12]

@dimbulb23 - Right on. Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists. You got one "founder" - you're on your way - only about 30 more to go. I'm waiting.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter For sake of argument I assumed a fetus is a life with full rights equal to other humans but its rights do not diminish the rights of other humans. In fact, a fetus does not have full rights of a newborn. Surely you know this. Have you seen a photo of a baby? You said "You act as if a fetus is a parasite" No I act as though a human rights begin when they become a human. In my opinion that's when the unborn is viable without the mother, some time in the last 3 months. .....

[@MisfitGracie4]

They are human beings from conception, because their parents are human beings!!!

[@dimbulb23]

@bammbamm12 That wall was intended by the founders and has been upheld in the Courts.

[@bammbamm12]

@cobhcmofo313 - religious views should be kept out of the state? You must be kidding. It's the state that must step aside for religion. The state must get out of religion's way. Wherever religion comes, the state must leave.

[@Mahvalous1]

I've been reading Schaeffer since the early 90's... Frank Schaeffer has traveled very far away from the 'absolute's of the Universe and of God's absolutes. Bachman is not a deconstructionist, in any stretch of the imagination. This clip is very biased, and shows me that Frank has no idea what the Bible means she it says' submissive'. BTW Frank if you ever read this, look it up. It says Man and woman be submissive to one another..... Submissive does not mean the definition you are giving it , in the current vernacular. Hope you find your way, and choose to read the bible, 'in context. like your Dad did How terrible of her to advocate freedom of choice in School education. Frank , you are your own man. And it seems to me you are misleading people on the Deconstructionist ideal

[@terceldude]

@smith077906 TRUE!!! :) Jesus told a rich Pharisee that if he wanted the kingdom of heaven, he would have to give his riches to the poor and unfortunate and try to obey the Ten Commandments...

[@reach360now]

Schaeffer once embraced and was even a spokesperson for (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity. It's appears that he's left Orthodoxy behind as well. The apparently post-Christian Schaeffer seems to be just another angry name-caller contributing to the polarization and "crazy-ness" of U.S. politics.

[@keithporter3798]

Graham Johnson c

[@gailgunderson5163]

Presidential debate? How old is this? It's so outdated!! Boring!

[@yeoberry]

That's all irrelevant. I don't recognize the authority of Councils anyway, unless they are supported by the Inspired Word of God which Christ gave us. But Elvira is historical evidence that the early church was strictly opposed to icons. So Elvira proves that the "Orthodox" claim to have preserved the Apostolic Tradition is false.

[@MonteHarmon]

Frank's hatred for his father, and seemingly for God, is very clear. Whatever grains of truth that are in his statements are totally obscured by his hatred. Additionally (or as a result), his categories are so far from being an accurate reflection of the American evangelical church that much of what he said is unintelligible. I guess it doesn't bother me that much as I'm not in the group he is targeting, but if he wants to be taken seriously he needs to be more honest (or less ignorant).

[@cabecarpenter]

@HeroOfChristArchives Ron Paul is an isolationist and doesn't understand countries like Iran. He's pro-life for sure, which is good, but has voted against pro-life legislation merely because he thought it wasn't being done in a constitutional way.

[@lguembes57]

If he is wrong, I fail to see any serious evidence from Christians that followed his father. All adjectives in the comments here, just promote more curiosity toward Frank Schaeffer writings, just like the journalists follow the political scandals in the direction of the yelling...

[@VincentValentine33]

Why does Bachmann remind me of Serena Joy Waterford?

[@catsnchords]

I perfectly understand Frank's disdain for far-right politik in the evangelical movement, but I think his full-blown adoption of far-left politics is pretty reactionary and stupid on his behalf. Going from a right-wing fascist to a left-wing fascist (quite a journey there, btw) isn't gonna solve your problems, Frank. Better to just leave politics out of it altogether.

[@cabecarpenter]

And you obviously aren't freaked out about Islam.

[@joethehero2]

You know; believing in a religion or higher power.

[@armyveteran101st]

@virtuousvoice How in the hell is he being a "left-wing fascist"? He is speaking the truth, and the fact that you may disagree does not make him a fascist. BTW, I doubt you even know the correct meaning of the term "fascist". If being right is being a leftie, then call me a leftie as well. I completely agree with Schaeffer, and if you don't then you have problems.

[@bammbamm12]

@bammbamm12 - sorry cabe - I meant to address dimbulb - I'll correct. Mea culpa.

[@dimbulb23]

@cabecarpenter A fetus is a group of cells. It is a potential baby not an actual baby. Legally speaking it does become a person at birth. And no I don't believe one can honestly say they know that abortions are done without feelings for the potential life or simply for convenience. it's a lot more complicated than that. it's a personal/medical decision and not yours to make for others. That's what I think.

[@bammbamm12]

@dimbulb23 - Prove that the wall was intended by the founders. Then we'll talk about what's been upheld.

[@bammbamm12]

@dimbulb23 - I just knocked you across the field. Religion cannot break laws, but no laws can be made against religion. So you have no right to call on the Constitution to try to steer religion out of the sight of government. The government must back off when religion walks it's way. The government must step aside. The government must say, "I'm sorry religion. I didn't see you coming. I have no power over you. Please forgive me."

[@armyveteran101st]

@virtuousvoice I don't believe in state's rights either, and I think taxation needs to go up at all levels so that we can get out of the financial hole we're in, and that does not make me a "fascist". You are extreme in your views, and everyone who isn't seems extreme to you. If you want to home-school your children that's up to you, although you are crippling their ability to get along and co-exist in society by doing so. We just have a philosophical difference.

[@cabecarpenter]

@bammbamm12 That is not a direct quote from what I said? What am I bluffing? Or are you thinking I am someone else?