Ex-Helluva Boss employees speak out against Vivziepop (Vivziepop Drama Part 3)

[@ayylmaotv]

I made a follow-up video, you can watch it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoGQpGl3p5l0ZpY

[@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982]

I'm supporting Vivziepop already! And I hope she'll be okay!🥺💕

[@Lolsu.]

@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982 Redditor

[@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982]

@@Lolsu. What?

[@mancave10369]

With everyone bashing her at this point allegations and defamation attempts aren’t surprising

[@Mine4dayzz]

@@Lolsu. They used emojis; they can’t be a redditor.

[@honeytea2829]

I'm really happy that you chose to take the route of "innocent until proven guilty" which of course conditions viewers to only rely on the facts surrounding the matter. I'm really happy to find this level of maturity surrounding something Vivziepop related.

[@tannerhuman]

Same

[@Its_Asteria]

I agree. Lately both relating to Viv and just the internet as a whole. Everyone thinks in a "guilty until proven innocent" kind of mindset. It's horrible.

[@uopeson1259]

​@@Its_Asteria Yeah I dislike that mindset someone made up a story about me without any evidence on discord and yeah I got banned from that server earning a two-faced liar and gossiper reputation that steals people's partners so yeah now I'm paranoid someone will just turn on me well the worst part is that the people who started spreading that actually believe it and didn't even give me a chance to defend myself just started ignoring me all of a sudden.Took me a while to find out the truth.Like I already got banned no proof needed and lost like 6 friends. like this could've easily been solved if they actually went around and asked people if I talked about them instead of assuming I did and being quiet about it.

[@ayylmaotv]

I felt like I was going insane scrolling through twitter and seeing everyone dogpiling vivzie and the team. I might get some hate for saying innocent until proven guilty but I know myself that it’s the right thing to do. Thanks for the comment

[@saki2841]

It really depends on the situation and if there is prior evidence, so is there evidence? -no, then it's most likely innocent until proven guilty -yes, then it's most likely guilty until proven innocent

[@richierichrichardson1463]

I'm inclined to believe atleast that they aren't being paid well enough due to the amount of expensive voice talent vivzie hired for the show. Norman Reedus, Alex Brightman, Barrett Wilbert Weed and James Monroe Iglehart are pretty big names in the industry and with the amount of merch sales she keeps shilling it's not hard to believe money is a big issue.

[@JustSomethingElse]

which paints a very hypocritical picture of Viv as she was 100% the time to scream for higher liveable wages and better workplace enviroments in the animation industry on twitter, or atleast before i had enough of her just having petty monkey shit throwning fights with people on twitter till i said WELL THIS PROFILE IS COMPLETELY NOT ABOUT HER CREATIONS SOOO IM DIPPING :)

[@Aluhcav]

Heck, Disney had that problem when they first started. And it sounds about the same.

[@maxpops8427]

I wouldn’t say the voice talent is that expensive. Norman’s the only one that probably raised the budget. But aside from him, Alex, Brandon and Richard. I hardly heard of these names prior to the show.

[@Apothecary_Pinch_of_Yarn29]

I didn’t know Barrett Wilbert Weed was in Helluva Boss. I really love her work. I don’t agree with what Vizzie has been accused of doing in the tweets and posts. Until it is proven to be true or not I am going to wait. I love Hazbin and Helluva Boss, I am still going to enjoy it. The art is not the artist. People need to separate that.

[@LunaVal]

@@Apothecary_Pinch_of_Yarn29 hard to separate it when they profit/benefit directly from it lol death of the author is really only a thing when the creator is dead and can’t profit (unless they become famous/household name for it 🤔), or the creator loses/gives up the rights to the work in general

[@mrconroy4672]

It doesn’t surprise me that allegations would come out against Viv. Not holding my breath until it is confirmed true.

[@asaknight321]

especially during this time, I hope it's not real but if it is this will be upsetting

[@mrconroy4672]

@@asaknight321 It seems a little too organize for me to believe. Wouldn’t be surprised if a majority of the allegations were highly exaggerated lies to chase clout to earn internet brownie points so they can promote their own shows.

[@asaknight321]

@@mrconroy4672 this is true, for now we must stay neutral

[@kevinshanahanii4966]

And besides how do we know these are even real you have to remember some fans demand episodes on the daily viz herself might be suffering from burnout herself but that is just my opinion I'm not taking a side

[@saki2841]

​@@kevinshanahanii4966 for all we know these people are the spiteful "fans"

[@JakeTheJay]

The timing of this coming out is making it harder to believe, we're gonna need to wait and see if it's just timed poorly or if it's just someone trying to take Vivzie down with the momentum already in place. I'll take this with a grain of salt until more solid evidence comes out.

[@ghostlyexe]

Yes, the biggest red flag for me was them mentioning that Vivzie threatened other creators to not hire her artists and immediately saying I cannot confirm this but believe my friend I mentioned. If Vivzie is doing that, then she is not a good person at all but if this had happened, those other people would’ve also come forward to mention that Vivzie told them not to hire those artists. I’m not gonna write off this person’s statements and say they’re 100% not true but I also cannot just believe all of this without actual proof

[@adelenoel3843]

@@ghostlyexe exactly that's the weird thing to have this level of accusation and yet no one else is coming forward? That just doesn't smell right and until we have more than just this person's word (like the other people coming forward cuz if this is true they wouldn't ruin their careers at all to speak up against it all) I'm not too inclined to believe it (it's sounds like the type of high school rumors people would do if you leave for a long time to try and ruin your reputation for when you return)

[@mackaroni9792]

@@adelenoel3843 I mean they said they were getting more statements from other people, they just haven't come forward yet, I don't think that in and of itself is suspicious And yeah, there's a very real fear factor there, viv's fans are absolutely rabid, dude Like you have to realize how much power Viv has over people with her fans, she's a HUGE name, that's just like someone trying to speak out against a big actor when they're only someone who worked on set, and they're not a public figure

[@adelenoel3843]

@@mackaroni9792 saying they're getting more statements yet not showing a damn thing (cuz you can show screenshots but block out names and tags and everything) just sounds like a typical rumor mill type bull. Also scandals come out all the time about big named people and so long as the person saying whatever can back it up with facts and proof they can be fine. Will there always be people in support of shitty people? Yes, but the main thing is there has to be proof of them being a shitty person (which if many people have statements come forward at least ONE of them will have physical evidence unless it's all rumor mill bull) Which so far the main person support this apparently has made false accusations on one of the cast members molesting them (which has been proven to be false) and having that person as one of your backers isn't a good look for you if it's real. And as others have said it's waaaaaaaay to coincidental that this is happening when she's on break, with all other problems happening, and people are already riled up harassing her and crew making it easy to add fuel to the fire. I do agree it's innocent until proven guilty and until this other person can actually prove what they're saying is true I'm not inclined to believe them (seriously even NDAs can be broken if there was actually anything going on and this level of toxic environment could be a good reason to break one. Even then NDAs don't cover things like this. So they could provide text messages or something to prove anything but they haven't. Text messages aren't covered by confidentiality laws and so long as they aren't showing things related to what is happening to the shows story they won't break an NDA if they have one which isn't very likely)

[@mackaroni9792]

@@adelenoel3843 they're working on it dude, you're fine to say innocent until proven guilty, but saying it's suspicious that nobody else came out when they're actively compiling statements is just wrong, like? At this point you've just gone and assumed guilty before anything else has come out about the other party, so really you're doing the thing you said you weren't gonna do, but the other way around, like what happened to waiting for the evidence?

[@hazelgrunts]

Don’t take a side until more evidence comes forward, remember that. Obviously, this show has suffered from a lack of professionalism and problems are arising as a result. It’s understandable considering that this is a Covid indie project, but that doesn’t excuse mistreatment if it’s proven to be true. Edit: Wow, didn’t expect this to get much attention Second edit: How did this go from Vivziepop drama to whether Trump was homophobic…?

[@JadON_Studios]

exactly

[@DontWorryImNotImportant]

My thoughts exactly

[@cyberdance4578]

It’s not looking good for Vivziepop tho, remember she advocated for Scott Cawthon to be cancelled and this isn’t the first time someone’s come out about her behavior behind the scenes

[@Barlmoro]

i think there is something inbetween, it start as a passian project and becomes a bussiness and at this point the easy work enviroment become a real one and the ones who was used to have it easy now have deadlines.

[@duerphykat8809]

@@cyberdance4578 genuinely asking what did she try to cancel Scott for? He’s one of the friendliest people on the planet

[@FMHikari]

This is why "Innocent until proven guilty" works better than "Guilty until proven innocent".

[@nebulanovaes]

imo they're both valid.. guilty until proven innocent is okay as long as there's solid proof that the person who is being accused is bad, and innocent until proven guilty is used when there isn't any

[@FMHikari]

@@nebulanovaes That's the point. It's EASY to make anyone look bad until proven otherwise.

[@Evancore-u6v]

@@nebulanovaes Well....Amber Heard tried to weaponize guility until proven innocent

[@brimp4989]

Twitter would like to disagree. They just see something negative an 80% of them just go GUILTY!!!!

[@FMHikari]

@@brimp4989 Do i look like someone who cares about twitter? Most of those users are all bark, and no bite.

[@thelunchlord4530]

A lot of these claims can be summed with "dude trust me bro" it's also worth pointing out that Joe (va of the egg bois) did it willingly for free, he also stated that he was Molested by Mick (Husk voice actor) at a con one time. Which had been proven false. So at the moment much like a lot of people here, I'm going to wait a bit before actually placing judgment.

[@anobody4606]

Yeah VivziePop has been an unfortunate target for getting harrassed or accused of "INSERT RANDOM BAD THING HERE", so forgive me if I'm not ready to jump on the hate train just yet.

[@bluebunanimates6590]

I fully believe Mick Lauer(or however you spell his name) would NEVER do that. I'm glad it was proven false. He's an incredible actor.

[@whatdidusay4794]

@@bluebunanimates6590 I agree with you man! He voices my favorite JoJo character and I know that he is a nice person

[@LunaVal]

@@whatdidusay4794 have you met him or been friends? It’s weird to assume someone is nice just bc you like their work or you’ve seen a video where they were nice

[@bluebunanimates6590]

@@whatdidusay4794 Same here!

[@The1nvisibleJeevas]

There was once a stalker who would use and abuse animators on Viv’s team by sucking them into fake indie projects he claimed to direct and when Viv caught wind of it, she seemed fine with the fact they were working on other projects AND came to their defense. She was interviewed about this so there were audio-recorded statements of this happening as well as screenshots. So I was under the impression that Viv actually cared a lot about her animators. This seems out of left field.

[@jarlathquinn2628]

Can you put a link to it

[@EDG4RIUS]

@@jarlathquinn2628 I think they are referring to this, kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKrTh42YjKh4j6c

[@The1nvisibleJeevas]

KZbin is weird with links in comments. I think searching “Hazbin Hotel Stalker” brings up the vid

[@jaydonmagan4694]

@@jarlathquinn2628 Yeah, unless you’re the person who uploaded the video, you can’t make or give anyone links to something in the comments section. The rule is that YT doesn’t want anyone sending any links that distract anyone else from the current video at hand. And they’re really quick about it. Yet, they’re slow on bot links.

[@jarlathquinn2628]

@@jaydonmagan4694 ok thanks

[@GennyTheWolf124]

Just gonna put this out there as someone who used to be deep in the villainous fandom, viviepop literally visited the studio for Villainous and gave one of the animators a plushie of angel cause that was the animator's favorite character and told folks on twitter to support them. So the whole idea of her turning around and bashing them makes no sense at all.

[@tfordham13]

If what happened is real the best i can come up with is they reviewed there style and or look to let them know what she wanted

[@GennyTheWolf124]

@@tfordham13 honestly that's probably what happened. It's not unheard-of for an animation studio to look at another cartoon or show to get some ideas of what they want or to have as examples of what they want to do. And it's not considered "stealing" or "copying", it's considered inspiration and a reference. At this point i don't even pay attention to the drama too much because it's usually found out later someone was lying or exaggerating things just to make someone look bad when said person was also going through a lot of things personally and made some bad choices as a result. Does it excuse the behavior? No, but no one is perfect and to act like everyone needs to be this Saint in order to be a good person is just ridiculous. Good people make mistakes all the time, we are no better. I wish more folks would keep this in mind everytime some "drama" comes out.

[@irene3082]

@@GennyTheWolf124 Adding onto what you were saying in the 2nd section: good/decent people make mistakes all the time, but they learn from them so they (at least) minimize the chances of doing it again. Everyone makes mistakes, but its never a valid excuse, especially when people try to continuously hide behind this. For the people who think those who make mistakes deserve maltreatment: "you are a hypocrite! If you made a mistake and someone mopped you for it, you'd be offended, saying that people are cruel for cutting down those who made "OnE SmAll mIsTAkE".

[@tfordham13]

@@spicynoodles2742 it's a lie

[@spicynoodles2742]

@@tfordham13 Yeah, I already saw the other videos, and how other workers defended Viv, but I still prefer not to take sides.

[@Joestar96]

I’m taking this with a grain of salt. By “favorites” of Vivzy, it could be people who actually do their job and time-manage well, while the “hated” animators could be people who struggle to balance time and get chewed out by the main heads themselves. The original poster also mentioned that he or she struggles with mental health even before getting their animation job, so motivation or energy could be highly affected here

[@SolBin-b4m]

God help her

[@lukeatkinson3355]

That could entirely be true. I feel like those who are in a better place mentally will see things in a brighter way even if its in a work environment. Having mental health problems will make work so much more difficult. Still if what the poster said is true, im sure they thought working for someone they looked up to would possibly help with their mental health maybe?? After all, the poster needs to make money somehow as well to pay bills. Usually what i do to help with my mental health is try to motivate myself with things that i like or enjoy so maybe thats what op was going for. Either way, i suppose at the end of the day, we need to look at this at every angle and get to the bottom of whats going on. Your perspective is something i didnt think about tbh but could be very well true.

[@stormbringer2064]

I highly respect this, because this is true when it comes down it there are two sides of a story ofc but it’s not acceptable to only hyper focus on drama or rumors that could just be absolute misunderstandings or lack of miscommunication but there’s also a difference between drama and trying to resolve an issue and that’s the toxic part about most people today I mean this is coming a guy from a new viewer on the outside looking in but I mean if there is a big problem and hypothetically if what is being said that is true then that is unfortunate and disappointing that people aren’t being treated with dignity but on top of it but people need to stop sitting Idly by and not saying anything because of fear of going against the grain is become pathetic in this world especially today in this toxic cancel culture era we live in you’d think people would be more bold but that doesn’t mean be rude but be assertive and honest but again I have no idea what’s going on but I do know on thing “drama is childish and meaningless and not the same as wanting to find a resolution and work out conflict respectfully that’s maturity at it’s core and that’s something people have a hard time distinguishing the two from each other but I hope all goes well with the people involved and things work out positively and sometimes all that is needed is to have a open conversation and let the truth fall where it may and go from there but this is upsetting to hear and things like this is always disappointing to bear witness to but I’m not siding with either group I sit neutrally in that because we aren’t experiencing it we’re just trying to get involved and only hear certain things and that’s not fair ofc so I take this with a grain of salt and I would hope others would aswell

[@SolBin-b4m]

@@lukeatkinson3355 well I don't think it is true. Need more evidence. But if u think it's true then it's ur opinion

[@Kumahachi8]

I wondered if that might be true, myself. It made me think of ways that a relative of mine would speak about matters like this. I’ve had texts and emails from their work placed in front of me and I would be told all about how this person was so horrible and what they were saying was horrible…and the texts and emails were nothing of the sort. It was an individual in authority making reasonable requests, but my relative struggled to balance time and motivate themselves, and the requests almost came across as a personal attack to her, when they were perfectly acceptable, and it usually led to self-sabotage where she would leave jobs and say it was someone else’s fault and they were horrible and that she couldn’t work in this field anymore because it was all ruined for her. It really all depends on the mindset of whoever views it, I suppose.

[@JewelWildmoon]

I'm holding onto "innocent until proven guilty" for this one. Especially given the timing that this was brought up and the level of detail given into the behavior, which honestly is mostly done if it's an over-exaggeration or just fabricated. The main factor being the fact that all of this was said but no evidence was shown even in terms of texts or voice recordings (since they communicate through Discord) which doesn't need to be a long doc. Just enough SS to prove at least *some* of the claims. *Edit:* Also please note that I'm not trying to put victim(s) down if it is potentially true. It is possible that they're genuine and just went about this in a way that it looks suspicious, but I'm skeptical about immediately accusing someone without evidence, especially when they've been a victim of false accusations previously.

[@Mileza-ASMR]

Exactly and it could have easily been done one would assume. I think vivzies employees are just having a hard time which is causing problems. Honestly allot of problems are just circumstantial.

[@ohxvvt]

Viv doesn't sound like a bad person even if you are to believe this guys story she sounds immature, but also like she has more important things on her mind like running an animation studio with two projects at hand than giving appreciation for every little detail from her workers

[@kay-kay6483]

Aside from all of this being hearsay, it's funny that Erin decided to be vague about the deciding incident that led them to quit (which was evidently not even directly related to Viv). This whole thing reeks of "waiting for the perfect time to tear Viv apart because of a personal vendetta" rather than a legitimate problem. The guy who wrote that letter about Roosterteeth and RWBY was EXTREMELY specific; if Erin really wants to feel heard, shouldn't they, like... actually talk?

[@sanntiagodiaztrevino5803]

I feel such joy reading so many comments being this neutral and thinking about this whole situation through and through, because indeed, Viv is innocent until proven guilty That said, if i may share my opinion, i agree that this is most likely a case of over-exaggeration, i could imagine many of the topics Erin Frost complained about being true, or true enough, like the issues with money, or tight deadlines, but i think this is more possible due to Vivzie's lack of experience leading such big projects at the same time, rather than her being this evil person, and the thing about Vivzie "finding the idea about investing in her artists and their careers pointless and laughable"? Straight up sounds like some sort of movie villain, though, i guess it is possible, but only evidence will tell the truth

[@HenshinFanatic]

@@sanntiagodiaztrevino5803 maybe the whole JD trial has woken some people up to false accusations.

[@tazien]

I'm sorry. But given how much she publicly uplifts indie projects, how late this has taken to come out and just so happened to come out around the legal issues, and Viv having a hard time mentally lately, I can't see this as anything more than 'Let's make her look as bad as possible because it's a prime opportunity to strike.' Until i see some hard evidence of these claims, this all seems highly fake.

[@animefan2454]

Yeah best not to jump to conclusions

[@DiamondThing]

Very good point

[@LakeofCrystalclan]

Agreed

[@murilog.p.1383]

Agreed

[@Kiwiqwp]

Agreed 💯

[@lightyearpig12]

Even if Viv apologizes for the drama, I have no doubt in my mind that they'll refuse to forgive her because they hate her that much. I'll bet that a year or two from now when Hazbin Hotel finally premieres, this will be dug back up and we'll have to repeat the whole process all over again, just like everything else Viv has been cancelled for.

[@TDArulesclub4]

Just goes to show people will turn a blind eye if they like a creator’s content more.

[@anobody4606]

@@TDArulesclub4 Or because people love digging up the past and aren't actually looking for an apology.

[@lechocolat3783]

@@TDArulesclub4 That.....was not the point of the original comment man

[@mancave10369]

Because apparently ruining people’s lives, careers, and reputations and not allowing them to forget their past mistakes will truly help them redeem, right? 😃

[@planteruines5619]

Twitter moment

[@jasonjasso666]

At this point we need at least one explicit audio leek from her personal discord in order to start believing such accusations. There’s just not enough evidence to condemn either side as of this moment.

[@nicholasoneal1521]

I'm curious, why would they lie about their treatment?

[@nastywolfent]

@@nicholasoneal1521 more then likely to make her life hell because he was prob termed for something and is pissed, Ive seen it alot, they get mad when it doesnt go their way and they get booted

[@hereisahuman5977]

@@nicholasoneal1521 You'd be surprised how often this sort of thing happens.

[@nicholasoneal1521]

@@nastywolfent Then why were there multiple employees attesting about how bad working there was for them?

[@junelaananke7138]

@@nicholasoneal1521 Who else came out with allegations?

[@lechocolat3783]

Lol, I love how Joe is still trying to "speak out" over nothing. The guy voiced the egg bois for like 5 minutes and even confirmed that he told Vivzie that he "would do it free of cost" so I don't get why he is acting like Viv didn't pay him justly when he didn't even ask for payment. He also falsely accused Mick (the voice of Husk) of sexual harassment in a con just because Mick hugged him, so I don't really see how Joe has the guts to call other people scummy when he has also done some pretty scummy stuff in the past.

[@marshmallowloaf]

Source for the "Free of cost?" VA? Not that I'm taking Joe's side, I'm just legitimately curious how many VAs decided to work for free and if any one else has been "Caught" trying to cast shade on Viv for whatever reason.

[@mancave10369]

It’s like a bartender giving a drink on the house but a year later accusing the same customer of not paying for their drink.

[@Grimeygrotto]

It's just really suspicious that no one has any actual evidence of these claims

[@dr_edward_richtofen69]

Right? Like I get it, toxic work environments & employee mistreatment is terrible and should definitely be dealt with, but this could have been made up. There's been so many controversies like this in the past where the accusatory party was just flat out lying or being hyperbolic. Personally, until I see proof- innocent until proven guilty

[@-Carnage]

The thing is viv has gotten into drama before so I'm not surprised if this was true

[@user-nn8fm6jw3j]

@@-Carnage i thought majority of said drama's have been proved debunked or taken out of context??

[@Letycs]

The only thing I thought gave it a little credit was multiple people having similar stories, BUT I see here that at least one of those people has been caught lying multiple times. I'll give him this, it was a convincing statement if nothing else.

[@SylveonKawaii289]

I was very completely shocked when I read all of this. Although I don't see any evidence that Viv act harsh on her fellow workers, ya know like screenshots of her doing that in a server. But, however, let's just hope that another drama won't occur ever again.

[@oranjaglad8648]

Now that I think about it, if this is true, why didn’t they take any screenshots? I’m pretty sure that’s how you can prove that someone said something, anyway.

[@secondchunguswarissoonwene3161]

@@oranjaglad8648 something smells fishy

[@bakatemplargaming2430]

@@secondchunguswarissoonwene3161 what if they are in voice call or video call

[@hazq3282]

@@bakatemplargaming2430 then screen record

[@LeRouxFilms]

@@bakatemplargaming2430 I doubt it was limited to that. Animators are known introverts, texting regarding work definitely occurred.

[@PrimitiveAK]

whenever someone provides oddly specific details about a "toxic work environment" like this, most cases it tends to be fabricated or entirely false. We'll see how this turns out.

[@roidrannoc1691]

I wouldn't be surprised by a middle ground. With the deadlines, the lack of organisation, the pressure, the fact that there are two series, including one in a studio, and the fact that it's an amateur animation studio, no wonder there are issues. A lot of people working on those projects, in a very pressurized environment can create a lot of drama, rivalries and such. The ego of the creator can also play a part in the way she treats people. All I'm saying is that it's not easy to work with people, and those conditions of work are especially great for drama to errupt. And as always hearing only one side is the worst way to hear about a conflict.

[@PrimitiveAK]

@@roidrannoc1691 100% agree. Me personally i think there is SOME truth to it. Maybe not to the extent that this guy is making it out to be but, I used to work at paramount pictures. the entertainment industry has A LOT of egos. Maybe im entirely wrong and all this turns out to be true. Hope not. I just wanna see the new episode lol.

[@roidrannoc1691]

@@zaguyaarts1868 The thing is, first of all if you enjoy the show, don't let the drama of the artist ruin it for you. We have to differentiate between the artist and the art. Also, there are many people working like crazy for this show. If it's all true they don't work in the healthier conditions. Their money depends on this show. I find a bit unfair to punish them as a collateral damage in the attempt to punish Vivzi for what she did to them...

[@BlackMysteries1]

it would break my heart if the shows had to end because of the drama. i love hazbin and helluva

[@BoxWChild]

@@zaguyaarts1868 Did you not watch the video you're commenting on? /lh There's no evidence to strengthen or validate the claims yet, everything so far can be counted as hearsay and rumors. By all means, keep an open mind and don't deny the possibility of both sides of the coin being true or possible, but it's concerning how you immediately went to "but I didn't know deep down she was a demon..."

[@user-jk6iu6lf6b]

This Drama seriously needs to stop

[@avagodfrey7910]

Totally. It Really Needs to Stop.

[@renitymoon3471]

This drama has been going for idk months???!! Its the main talk every time there's a new rumors or confession that spilled out

[@user-jk6iu6lf6b]

@@renitymoon3471 I already know that???? I just wanted to say that this Drama seriously needs to stop because it seriously needs to stop

[@renitymoon3471]

@@user-jk6iu6lf6b I know that's what you meant. I'm just saying this drama can get out of control if it keeps going.

[@CherriStan]

When a youtuber says DONT HARASS ANYONE IN THE VIDEO. And yet people still do it. I hate it. I think they all need a break. They definitely deserve one, even viv. I hope all this will go away. It hurts me to hear this. Even if both shows end, i can predict that people will go after viv and her team. Why? Because thats the internet for you.

[@mancave10369]

Even if it’s true, I will still feel terrible

[@faceless.3224]

It's not the internet if somebody's life doesn't burn to ashes.

[@theSixPathsOfTrains]

I mean what do you expect it's the internet. 🤣

[@theSixPathsOfTrains]

@@faceless.3224 Facts that's what makes it entertaining

[@unknown_raven975]

Then let's do a reverse psychology, let's says "harass everyone mentioned in video" so people will stop harassing them. It's Human's nature is hate being told what to do, also internet is both blessed and cursed place

[@anubisgodess2353]

I Really appreciate the "innocent until proven guilty" route. To me all of this seem to Coincidently to be coming out what with Vivze posting about how the last episode of season 1 will be delayed, Her mental health is jeopardized, and a TON of backlash this seems to be adding more fuel to a fire that was already raging. There definitely needs to be more evidence to Erin Frost's claims before anything can be resolved, and although what they may have experienced mayhaps have been true we don't know so I just hope that Vivzy addresses them and it all comes down professionally.

[@lechocolat3783]

Eh, Erin Frost doesn't really have substantial evidence either, most of his claims can be boiled down to "just trust me bro" which has been pretty much the basis for all Vivziepop drama. I'd rather not take sides on anything just yet, especially since this person didn't even bother going on Twitter (a platform that Vivzie and the crew can actually defend themselves on) to post about this experience.

[@warwulf1889]

Like with Bill Cosby.

[@anubisgodess2353]

@@lechocolat3783 That is a very true point you just made. They used Tumbler if I am correct. Why not post all of these claims on Twitter I wonder. Though I agree as of right now it's beneficial to be natural in this situation until more evidence is brought to light.

[@VintageToilet]

@@warwulf1889 What?! 😭

[@warwulf1889]

@@VintageToilet well look what happened in his case. I chose not to get involved with the drama happening over the internet so I don't know all the details other than a lot of his old co stars were suddenly coming out many years later with rape allegations against him. What's going with Vivziepop definitely isn't as bad but not much better either.

[@nabinoorshahil2715]

Honestly animators getting over worked and under paid is far too common in the industry. Animators often have to meet crutch time deadlines and don't get any re ward for it. Animation work environment in the industry in general is bad and it discourages a lot of new and talented animators from staying in the industry.

[@Its_Asteria]

That's true in a lot of vases. But many animators and workers in those areas have also shared positive experiences too. I really think it varies studio to studio and wether or not their short on funds. In this case we don't know for sure if this is actually happening or not without proof.

[@andrewphillips4681]

@@Its_Asteria that's why a good vase is important

[@tfordham13]

Ok but they asked for the dead line

[@pbpeanut1144]

Of course, why does there have to be drama literally A MONTH before season 2 comes out. I understand that this may or may not be true and Viv may or may not be an actual toxic person. But it’s just frustrating to me when I wait for a thing I’m excited about comes out and then some drama shit happens that makes everything canceled. Sorry if this sounds insensitive I don’t mean to make it sound that way, im just venting…

[@TheCreeperSwagOffical]

I understand how you feel

[@1987bisdann]

i feel the same.

[@cinnamonqueen20106]

Your not the only one with these feelings I hope we still get the next episode of helluva

[@lordbuttsworth9558]

I feel you, it puts a dampener on something you're excited for and makes you feel like you're 'complacent' if you keep indulging your stress relief medium. For me I'm :( 'cause blabla state of the world and it puts a dampener on my escapism.

[@Cybermoonmage]

I seen people say they work in a " toxic environment " when really they're barely doing their job. If it's so bad you had to quit, I'm sure other employees would follow but until then i have my doubts about the whole thing

[@astrad6416]

I completely agree with this considering that the VAs and hazbin clean up crew left was because they found better positions but none of them talked trash about the environment

[@wolvesofabyss8235]

@@astrad6416 what if they were paid enough not to? There are legal agreements going on usually. If you break the agreement there is a fine or worse. Maybe this is why they can't talk.

[@catcactus1234]

@@wolvesofabyss8235 Then wouldn’t the employees making these allegations have been sued by now? Usually if conditions are that bad, you’ll get 1 or 2 whistleblowers who contact news reporters anonymously. But it’s just one person with no evidence, alongside a history of them making false sexual assault allegations against their coworkers.

[@skaithvanbaskerville4794]

The thing that really makes me doubt those accusations, is the part about Viv and her team supposedly taking their time to organise meetings for the sake of making fun about others shows and animations? Tight deadlines, stress and possibly even people who misuse their positions unknown to Viv can be considered realistic and therefore possible occurrences. But the described level of mob mentality, the threat of ruining other’s careers for merely mentioning problems, as well as the berating and fun making of others shows. Simply sounds a tad far fetched and conveniently creates quite a dark depict

[@Sirens.Lullaby]

It's possible they're twisting a critique session (analyzing a popular art piece to gain insight of one's own art, often done in early art classes iirc) as attacking another artist's work

[@skaithvanbaskerville4794]

@@Sirens.Lullaby It’s not unlikely, seeing as they also labelled hiring new voice actors as "rubbing elbows" with seemingly more important people. Maybe someone got bitter after having hoped to work directly with Viv and didn’t get the attention they wanted. Or mistakes were actually made but highly exaggerated, who knows. In the end we can only stay neutral for the time being, until evidence is provided or not. I simply hope that more people act reasonable in the meantime, instead of flipping their lid like a toddler on a hissy fit.

[@autumngarcia7562]

Until there's solid proof I'm kinda finding it hard to believe all of this. Not saying they're straight up lying tho. Animation is hard and time consuming, and Vivziepop is trying to make an entire show, it makes sense she wants loyalty and hard work, she's not your friend she's a boss, she isn't going to be buddy buddy with absolutely everyone or be super nice when she's stressed out about two shows, merch, dealing with fans and life in general. And I just want to say it is a little suspicious that this is all coming out after the controversy with ep 8 and Viv taking a break from social media so she can't address this properly.

[@shadowgirl765]

I wouldn't be surprised if things were spun out of context too. Like saying that she watched other indie projects with people and had those people pick at and make fun of them? Are we sure she wasn't just pointing out flaws that she wants to avoid in her show? It just seems very odd that she would hate on other animators and other projects

[@helixmediacorporation862]

@@shadowgirl765 also, sometimes we rib shows AS A JOKE? Like watching TDI and making offhand remarks out of sarcasm and wit.

[@katrinascarlet5637]

@@helixmediacorporation862 pretty sure we've all made jokes about proportions in TDI. I appreciate animation and have done enough of it to know I don't want that job permanently. Doesn't mean I can't poke fun at silly things.

[@matthewpaul6904]

Devils advocate: This sounds like the Walt Disney effect. She likely has a high work ethic, like Disney, and figured everyone ought to have the same level of dedication but that doesn't pan out. It's not malicious, it's I wouldn't push you if I didn't push myself. I understand that everybody is different but when you are hired for a job, quotas and deadlines need to be met. This isn't her problem, everyone in the industry even with way more resources is feeling the crunch and being burned out.

[@Natalie66796]

I have a feeling it's all fake. Because now it's popular to hate her. I seriously doubt that she's a toxic person. However, if is confirmed to be true, I'll be upset

[@mrconroy4672]

It’s very oddly specific when it came to Erin’s claims. I really am starting to believe that a majority of these people either never worked on the show or have but were cut loose because they didn’t adhere to the professionalism and the full load of a full time job.

[@rollingthunder8612]

@@mrconroy4672 plus what's been going on the last few weeks, it's hard to find credibility in this statement.

[@oranjaglad8648]

@Mr Conroy46 Also, why didn’t the person making these allegations provide screenshots for evidence? Pretty sure that would prove their point in regards to the Discord thing.

[@mrconroy4672]

@@oranjaglad8648 Also, why did the person wait at least a year before putting the accusation out?

[@mikewheeler6059]

@@mrconroy4672 because they knew it'd make EVERYTHING worse for her.

[@LeRouxFilms]

That's a whole lotta "My word against theirs" arguments.. I mean just a few screenshots would be nice. Being an animator is stressful, obviously, but of course there are going to be "favorites." You know, the people who do their job and understand what their boss wants easier. Also, not talking to Vivzie, the boss, directly isn't that uncommon. She's running two shows, one of which is free and the other requires much more attention. It's a company. Of course she's going to have help from an assistant that communicates to the animators.

[@Kibblz961]

Yeah that one guy who was like "Oh I just had so many workers DM me to keep my mouth shut" Like okay bro then show us?

[@mancave10369]

Can’t screenshots be edited? A recording would be better

[@Kibblz961]

@@mancave10369 True true

[@tfordham13]

@@mancave10369 that too can be edited a screen shot is harder as i think there programs that can see it but don't quote me

[@peeblekitty5780]

The lack of screenshots kindof baffles me. They're the clearest way to prove your point. (We should still have some wariness towards screenshots, mind--they can be edited with frankly alarming ease, or staged, as in the case of the infamous Spoctor drama. But right now I'm much more weirded out by the lack of any at all. It's _all_ hearsay.)

[@BlooftubeBloof]

As someone who worked in the business, this is pretty on course with how the animation industry is. I've worked with people from her school and they're all like that. How they get jobs within the industry in the first place. Why you should work in the private sector instead of brown nosing for an industry that cannot change no matter how much you are deluded into thinking it can. I'm not shocked, I was just waiting for this to happen. And artists tend to be self centered and needing to be praised constantly so a good chance some of the allegations are just crying.

[@U.F.R.G]

This is more "trust me bro" ish than the aligations themselves

[@DarkyChuu]

@@U.F.R.G Pretty sure it's a bad mix of feelings. Basically, they're burned-out, depressed even (maybe), and are trying to cope with their feelings with resentment towards their last job instead of reflecting. The work conditions and state of mind seem accurate (been through similar myself), but much less when it comes to the personalities mentioned. Their judgment must be clouded.

[@wolvesofabyss8235]

I am in the industry as well. I find it really cruel for no reason but you need a tough skin to be in it. (I still have no idea why everyone is just hating and belittling eachother in companies and such, very counter productive in my opinion) but if vivzie is aware of this going on in the industry and she claims to be respectful and kind to her workers UNLIKE the industry, why would she act like this and maybe even worse? It is just pretentious. Power has simply gotten into her brain and if these allegations turn out to be true her career will be very short lived. And then...maybe she'd be come an employee? And taste the sweet toxicity of it ? I dunno.

[@BlooftubeBloof]

@@wolvesofabyss8235 No idea. Why I work in private.

[@peeblekitty5780]

@@wolvesofabyss8235 "she claims to be respectful and kind to her workers UNLIKE the industry, why would she act like this and maybe even worse?" is precisely why I find the claims of her turning heel like that to be suspect. (That and the timing.)

[@whydoiexist5890]

As you said in the description, I'm staying neutral because of the drama between the fans, Viv, and her ex-employees. I feel like with all the drama all of them are facing that there's no point to say what side you are on.

[@whydoiexist5890]

I just wanted to add that I feel that there is a link between all of them, it might not make sense but hear me out. Fans are mad at Viv for skipping an episode, and how long an episode are taking to come out, Viv is upset by her fans so she is taking time to get away from it all, Sam took her place since she's not there, and Sam is ruining everything which is resulting Ex-employees to speak out against Viv about how bad the workplace is. (Also I want to apologize just in case this didn't make sense).

[@Thetrueroyaljelly]

@@whydoiexist5890 It is also possible they’re speaking out because Viv said she would be taking a break from social media too so that would give them a opportunity to speak out.

[@whydoiexist5890]

@@Thetrueroyaljelly Its a possibility

[@VigilTheProtogen]

I really hate that this Erin Frost person is designated as a core spokesperson for these Vivziepop allegations. Sure they wrote a LOT on their tumblr, but this is a person who has already quit for a year, suffers from mental health issues, and at the time was overloaded by a concurrent 30-40 hour/week job. The distortions in their argument are bound to be insane. And as someone who has depression, I also feel worried for them because they just put a target on their back saying "come inquire me on stuff I'm sensitive about", it's bound to add conflict to their lives as they are not only forced to recall the negative experiences but then be doubted on their allegations, which can lead to self/internalized doubt and a victim/untrusting mindset. And with all this focus on recalling the past they're going to have no energy to focus on their future, no energy to rebuild their love of art, no energy to heal from their mental health issues. I sincerely hope that they never look at their tumblr account again and now that they have vented their feelings and potentially traumatic experiences, they will let go of the past and focus on healing

[@marshmallowloaf]

See, that line was the one that made me iffy about these allegations. Surely, as you put, having already been going through mental health issues, digging up trauma and frequently "Reliving" it on social media for "Knowledge" or "Inquiries" doesn't seem right? Like you said, if anything they'd spiral further if that was the case. It's what I feel makes me lean more towards Viv given her tweet felt more akeen to someone going through something: Having wanted a break offline and console with their loved ones. Erin if anything is actively induging themselves in the very thing that gave them trauma and put them in this bad place. Whether or not bad things happened, this feels all vindictive in one way or another.

[@karddoespiano2300]

I work as a software developer and I often pull all-nighters to meet deadlines. Almost always it’s because I’ve either been slacking or miscalculated time for finishing the job and not because of poor management stuff. I’m not judging anyone and just sharing my personal experience over my years of work

[@flask223]

Do you work full time at Starbucks as well?

[@DarkyChuu]

Sadly, in animation, there's a lot of co dependance with other groups (background, vfx, etc), so if someone else is slacking or does too many mistakes and takes too much time fixing them, everyone else after them pays the price. It's akin to an assembly line. So, good management is crucial. There are ways to make every department less dependant, but you need to be very familiar with everyone's tools and think ahead. Management, again...

[@karddoespiano2300]

@@flask223 why tho?

[@ReesesBees]

Here's the thing (I'm neutral about this whole thing): If the allegations were true, and the workplace for Vivzie's team (and Vivzie's behaviour itself) was as bad as they claimed, *how come no one came out about it earlier?* And no; an NDA doesn't prevent you from doing something like this. It just prevents you from talking about anything from the product in question (ie; Hazbin and Helluva.) From what I've seen, the allegations don't add up, plus the lack of evidence to back up the claims, not to mention people have been making similar accusations towards Vivzie for years in an attempt to defame her and paint her in a bad light, makes me think the 'allegations' were made up just to cause drama while Vivzie is trying to recover mentally. Suspicious, if you ask me. Again, I'm staying neutral in this whole thing until some confirmed true evidence comes up. Until then, Vivzie is innocent until proven guilty.

[@GamingwolfZJ]

At this point, I’m crossing my fingers and hoping these allegations aren’t true. I love Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, and I don’t want them to get defiled by office drama and all of the other crap going on that has the potential to get both shows canceled

[@mancave10369]

I love those shows. It’s depressing how she, her team, and the sane part of the fandom gets treated like this

[@Dracosengan]

Me too bro I wait for hazbin hotel in 2 year

[@mackaroni9792]

I mean vivz already wasn't a great person, this isn't new news, she literally made a nazi sausage party oc and was friends with someone whose username was "ihatejewce" a play on words for "I hate jews"

[@Dracosengan]

@@mackaroni9792 where you learn that from???

[@AEIOU05]

@@mackaroni9792 lmao, that sounds fucking hilarious

[@dodecahippo6378]

This is a reminder to never put any creator on a pedestal. You do not know them. Their art may be incredible, but you do not know them.

[@torided9773]

This!!

[@dodecahippo6378]

@@h.t.awesome3822 Also fair- I think people need to calm down for a second and just wait to see if more people come forward, evidence is presented, etc.

[@reiphas]

Ah yes, I love trusting anonymous tumblr randos that can claim they are whoever they want and say whatever they want about their employer without providing any evidence.

[@oranjaglad8648]

@reiphas And said Tumblr post doesn’t even have screenshots to make the evidence convincing, too. I don’t want to make it sound like they’re lying, but to me it still seems suspicious.

[@torided9773]

@@oranjaglad8648 a lot of times there can’t be screenshots provided for these accusations because 1. they were likely removed from the server they happened on after they moved on from working for Viv and simply don’t have access to the chats anymore & 2. chat history can be deleted with ease on discord. it’s why the platform is so popular amongst pedophiles. the offender is often able to remove any unsavory messages.

[@Stacesvfx]

It's really just a shame. Though l can't really say I didn't think something like this would happen. There's a reason I try to stay as far from this community as possible, while also trying to enjoy this show.

[@TheSonOfTheDragon]

While this is shocking to hear I can't help but be sceptical because 1. These allegations have no evidence or context backing them up. 2. While some of these allegations might be legit most of them sound like people who are upset that VivziePop was acting like their boss and not their friend and they're upset that work means actually working. 3. The animation industry is one of the most difficult, demanding, and sometimes soul crushing fields to work in and from what I've seen it looks a good chunk of these people did animation as a hobby and were very ignorant of how harsh the industry is. Bottom line until concrete evidence is brought in I'm giving these allegations the time of day. Also it's rather convenient that these are coming out a week or so after it was announced that they're being forced to skip season 1 episode 8.

[@TheSpoonyCroy]

"3. The animation industry is one of the most difficult, demanding, and sometimes soul crushing fields to work in and from what I've seen it looks a good chunk of these people did animation as a hobby and were very ignorant of how harsh the industry is. " I mean one would assume a big difference is at least when you are working an animation gig you get enough money to have that as your only job. You get benefits that are part of it, what is described here is they are a contracted employee who has to still work a normal 9-5. Now I'm not saying what happens in the animation field is right either but at least there is a sense of security in said field. Now could this all be bullshit absolutely but as you said "animation industry is one of the most difficult, demanding, and sometimes soul crushing fields to work" so if there is a possibility of the studio making it worse since they don't provide enough security for said employees it would make the overall field worse.

[@blaria95]

@TheSonoftheDragon, Here's how it works: people are aware bosses aren't buddies, but everybody wants to have a job where they can have fun and their boss is kind to them. It takes zero effort to be kind and fair. If all these coworkers are saying what they are about Viv, then she probably is just a shitty boss and shitty person.

[@TheSonOfTheDragon]

@@blaria95 You'd be surprised how often people are surprised that their boss isn't their friend. Also like I mentioned the animation industry is very stressful and demanding and these people sound like they didn't know what they were getting into. Bottom line, proof or it didn't happen.

[@tfordham13]

@@blaria95 no all of those people who clam it have been fired plus she has to work on TWO shows

[@blaria95]

@@tfordham13, Until I have enough proof that she isn't mean, I'm not changing my mind.

[@eh-6500]

I'm not picking sides but I felt it when Erin stated that "That's why Viv only hires fans because she knows they look up to her" (not exact quote), because I remember when my ex-bestfriend used to force me to do all sorts of things and even take punishments from her mother just so she wouldn't have to endure them, all because she knew I looked up to her. I'm not comparing myself to Erin in anyway but I'm just saying that I can understand the mental stress that type of action can put on a person.

[@tfordham13]

Maybe the reason why viv hire fans is that she likes being around people who care about her work?

[@eh-6500]

@@tfordham13 Yeah I'm considering that possibility too. I just hope this drama gets properly addressed soon because both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are great shows but I don't want our entertainment to be the cause of the distress on people's mental health

[@minotaur_king1733]

I love how ppl wait until times are tuff to reveal what “bad” stuff happen to them

[@finnisqueer]

There is def more to this than what we know.. There's always two sides to every story. Personally, I would like to see Vivziepop address this herself. Wanted to add some context regarding the ex-employee HandsomeHugs - 8:12 : HandsomeHugs was actually cut off not due to Vivziepop herself, but after accusations of HandsomeHugs being a Pedophile surfaced. They are supposedly known for drawing Shota (Underaged NSFW) and NonCon (Non-Consensual NSFW) - They responded to said accusations by essentially saying: "Sexual harassers get to keep their jobs in the Animation Industry, so why am I being ostracized for drawing Shota and NonCon professionally?" It is unclear if HandsomeHugs is actually a Pedophile, but it does seem this is why they no longer work for Vivziepop. While I believe there are workplace issues that need to be addressed, now the situation is blowing up, it's going to be difficult to tell truth from fiction - I think it's best to keep an open mind until we get a response from Viv, rather than believe word of mouth from the likes of those like HandsomeHugs who very clearly have their own issues going on and have reason to hold a grudge against Viv. Let's all try to be patient. I'm sure Vivziepop will be made aware soon, if she isn't already aware. It's only a matter of time before she addresses the accusations - And if she doesn't.. Well. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens then.

[@deathmourne1]

To me what a person draws on their own time is their thing and none of my damn business. Now if it the type of subject that professional can taint a project and they are let go then that is a consequence of their artwork. The accusations though are what can really hurt a person though.

[@finnisqueer]

@@deathmourne1 I agree! What you draw on your own time is totally your business. However, that being said, bringing something like Shota and NonCon into a professional show would very likely cause backlash.. Especially outside of Anime, where it may be more acceptable. It does seem that HandsomeHugs reacted negatively too, in defense of their right to draw what they like, which.. Fair. I'm sure there's more to this story I'm missing, too.

[@pinkychick677]

Oh god… i feel so sorry for vivzie ríght now

[@finnisqueer]

@@pinkychick677 She's already shown that her own Mental Health has been suffering due to the Show.. Sadly she's not the only one. I feel like honestly everyone working there just needs a big break, y'kno?

[@pinkychick677]

@@finnisqueer yeah, At this point i hope when the show ends everyone in the production take a huge break

[@Cinedragon]

I'm inclined to believe the animator because on Discord servers I spoke with several ex employee's of Viv. The payment for compositing was lousy. One artist, who I fully trust, only got paid 15 dollars per approved shot. Deadlines were random and unexpecting. The same artist had to pull an all nighter, and had a regular job the next day, because a sudden deadline appeared at 11 PM. Got told there was also a hierarchy and favorite shots were hoarded and handed out to Viv's favorite artists. All in all, There's been so many stories around Viv and having seen how unprofessional she can act, I do believe this animator is telling the truth.

[@torided9773]

That is terrible. Its sad how often artists and animators are taken advantage of.

[@bored_person]

That last part isn't a bad thing. That's normal for animation.

[@mikewheeler6059]

@@bored_person Yeah because not all artist are better than others and liking another artist work is normal. I have seen multiple people who worked for Vizzie or did art and character design love working with her.

[@mikewheeler6059]

Also it seems you are talking about storyboarding and 15 dollars per story board seems good since mind you she has to pay multiple animators and voice actors and writers. She's doing this per shot, I hate to say this but is there ANY proof what your friend said was true? People lie and start drama 24/7 and I'm sorry but I don't believe that if all this happened that you'd not have evidence or people backing you up. I'd also believe that you'd settle it at your own terms.

[@kaitomastuda6262]

@@mikewheeler6059 even if moneys kinda an issue you can also see that Vizzie try’s to get more money for the shows by releasing a lot of merch(I’m agreeing with you)

[@TheMr.theronguard]

I’m thinking the allegations are fake I think they’re just doing it because Vivzipop is getting a lot of hate right now

[@CinnamonQuills]

It's possible to both believe that someone with unstable mental health who was overworked and burnt out had a bad experience in a high volume, high pressure working environment that didn't give them the support that they needed, and also believe that the employer did nothing malicious or purposeful to cause that person's discomfort. I'm sure that animating an independent project takes just an unreasonable ton of work. I'm sure that most of the budget goes into the voice cast. I'm sure that sometimes people in a close hardworking creative environment get catty or snappy. What I'm less convinced of is that any of that makes *any* of the people, specifically, terrible human beings. Animation is a slog. It's absolutely a situation where if you go down to the floor and look at how the sausage is made, it's sharply less fun than you'd think. I'm sure the burnout is real, and there may not be a way, with people in charge who are people and not corporate entities, tight budgets and volunteer staff, to slow down to pick up the people who can't keep up and see to their needs the way a more traditional employer would be obligated to do. I imagine that people with the wrong mix of issues and personalities being in an unsteady high pressure environment without supports would find the experience to be incredibly destabilizing. I also imagine that it's possible both for that to be true, and for it to be true that no one specific from Viv on down specifically set out to give this person a hard time or create an environment that would be a torment to them on purpose.

[@mememarie2040]

I find this hard to believe just due to Vivs personality. She's already broke down just from some fans being upset over ONE episode. she quite frankly became depressed and drained from the reaction and completely shut herself down and shut herself away from the internet just from some fans being upset. So with that strong and type of a reaction i truly dont see her being that way. People who react in that way arent the types to display the behaviors she s being accused of. Now that doesn't mean what was said isn't true it just honestly doesn't sound like something she d do based on her character and how she reacts to negativity. She honestly seems like a people pleaser, almost timid, and very self critical. If she's truly the way these people say she is than she should absolutely be held accountable regardless of how great her animations are. Could she rebound from this if its true absolutely. But that's IF this is true. I'm kinda hesitant to believe people who no longer are actively working with someone and hasn't been for a long time that's out of the blue saying something like this especially when she just got some backlash over an episode being late/removed. This could very well just be previous employees being upset their not working with the project anymore and trying to get even so this whole situation is quite frankly suspicious. The timing is so convenient, why wasnt this brought to attention way before when its apparently been over a year ago this happened? Why did they specifically point out that it supposedly had nothing to do with the current controversy. Why has only non current artists/employees saying this? Viv works with quite a few VA and other employees that have done quite a bit of work and are a bit famous and i truly find it hard to believe that these people wouldnt immediately say something or quit if this is how she treats her artists, VA, employees and etc. Either way to me her personality and character just doesn't seem compatible with someone who'd do the things they're accusing. Its still possible its true and she's guilty of what's being said but until there's better evidence I don't want to pick sides or attack or support the wrong side. Lets see how Vivi responds or evidence can be produced.

[@fluent_debt]

I honestly don’t think Vivzie is a toxic person. I feel bad for her for having to deal with this shit honestly.

[@creationx6337]

I do too if she was a toxic person, she wouldn’t have tried so hard to dismiss and make up for bad past mistakes she made in the past, and trying to get people to understand how much she regrets them.

[@silliestlesbian]

Yeah innocent until proven guilty

[@glasfonster8772]

LMFAOOOO

[@mancave10369]

Why does cancel culture even exist

[@thepillowhead2453]

I don't exactly think she's a good person, but I doubt she has done the things said here

[@ahuman1468]

6:54 In other words: ‘I choose a bad time to make rumors and I want you to ignore what everyone but me has to say.’ I honestly think that these ‘ex workers’ are just people that were salty about being fired for something they did and want to try to make a ‘come back’ by trying to add more stress to Vivziepop. Their just trolls

[@tailsprower1253]

Read Sam hafts tweets, its pretty obvious they were fired for simply sucking at their job.

[@tfordham13]

@@tailsprower1253 yeah so there just pissed

[@theninjacalledbasilisk7770]

Animation is scary to me :0 I get burn outs rather easily, and I get bored of drawing the same thing over and over for just a few seconds of flow. Those who are passionate about that and are willing to experience the monotony over and over are incredible people! If these allegations are true, I can't imagine how hard it was. 🥺 I hope whatever really happened gets rectified properly

[@EagleScout2019]

So I spoke about this on Reddit however I figured I’d share here. As some who is graduating college hopefully soon in 3D animation, this entire drama sounds like someone who has never done, nor been trained for professional animation doing professional animation. Tight deadlines are very VERY common in animation. Even Dan Povenmire touches on this in an older ish tik tok where he talks about why some talking scenes have very little animation and just kind of sit there. There he explains that sometimes a lot of the time goes into stuff like musical scenes and other big moment things, that there’s not a lot of time for speech. In that he shows that tight deadlines are a thing. Which should not be surprising. However, what I call hobby animators, in both 3D and 2D do not understand this, and can honestly be douchebags about it sometimes. They hired fans, who do hobby animation with bo deadlines or budget, not realizing that the longer they spend, the longer the episode there working on is delayed, and the more the company has to pay everyone for having to show up just so they can wait on you. In the 3D world we see a lot of people who make something and think there good enough to be professional even though they made something that would never be able to render quick enough because they made it have 1 million polygons and are thinking that 2 hours to render 1 image is normal, when in reality it should be closer to 2-5 minutes for something that is very high def. We see a lot of this in hobby animators too, there are a lot of story telling animators who don’t do this, which is nice, but a lot of people who make fan animations of stuff do. They’ll make something and say “see I have what it takes to be professional” not the realizing that it just took them a year to make a 2 minute clip and they need a 2 hour movie done in the same about of time. This is the difference between hobby and professional animators. Even though I have done very little 2D animation, I can still animate in 2D at a professional pace, which I’ve had to do before, because I’ve been trained at a professional pace for 3D.

[@yisha..4566]

I agree I think it was a mistake to take a job in animating helluva boss and hazbin with "little to no qualifications". I just came to the conclusion that this animator just didn't realize the reality of working on a project like this. Though if it's true that vizie hired animators who were just fans and didn't actually question them on their qualifications and ability to work on this project then that's a huge oversight for her. (Also its 3 am so forgive me if I take the message of your comment and make it completely wrong)

[@EagleScout2019]

@@yisha..4566 it is an oversight, however I can see why they would do it, getting fans on sounds like a great idea, you get people who are super interested, and knows how to animate working on a project, sounds amazing, except it’s easy to forget that if they weren’t trained for it, they don’t know how to do it as fast as professionals can. It’s really easy to over look, especially since time isn’t looked at super often in animation in a community sense. Obviously animators have time limits, but unless something was made very quickly by one person or a small team, we never see people saying “man they did that really fast” or “they did that really slow” obviously there’s a lot of reasons this isn’t common, and I don’t want it to be common, but it makes it easy to forget that hobby animators are not animating nearly as fast as professionals.

[@Falcon-doing-doodles]

Yep. I draw mainly as a hobby but I know how much of a struggle deadlines for anything are, to say nothing of a deadline that's not feasible for you skill level. It's harder to judge with animation because you don't realize how fast things need to be done, and how good you really have to be to work in a studio

[@MikuBinderThomasJefferson]

Another thing to think about is that by watching the show it gives the people who if are being treated this badly I don’t know how to explain it but a sigh of relief that the hard hours criticism and late nights are not for nothing ya know

[@peachycream8674]

That timing is horrifically suspicious especially since it’s during her being MAULED by “fans” for not pumping out content FAST ENOUGH. Which goes against that allegation. Super weird if you ask me.

[@asaknight321]

I don't think this is real especially with the whole 2 shows getting delayed recently. If it is this will truly be upsetting but I'm holding hope that these claims aren't true since many people spoke positive about her before.

[@mammon8683]

I still feel sorry for her.

[@emilyhudsonnc3695]

Same

[@zilnan1gaming787]

Same

[@bluevixen2469]

There's this person on tiktok that decided to believe the tumblr post and bash on the pilot by saying everything sucked without explaining why. The way people just believe what they see on the internet and then give out false info really ticks my nerves.

[@animasteryful94]

I’m gonna call our shenanigans on this due to the weird timing and absolute lack of evidence being provided.

[@ThePmbstudios]

I've checked for the name Erin Frost in the end credits for one of the Helluva Boss episodes. It appears that Erin worked as one of the background artists for the series.

[@MaruchanPrime]

GUYS PLEASE LISTEN WHEN HE SAYS THESE ARE ALLEGATIONS!!! Our society has been too trained to make someone Guilty the second we hear an allegation and it's quite idiotic. Please leave the staff alone, I'm sure it will resolve itself and if anything with ACTUAL PROOF comes out then you can shout your opinions.

[@zronk]

doesnt really hold up if the recent episodes are not meeting the deadlines and shes giving the artist more time to complete episode 8 + if the wage was unfair you discuss raises, or you quit your job. And from the looks of it none of this was done. we have little evidence that anyone was vocal to viv about there displeasure in the way they got payed. The harassment in the workplace is a problem (no shit) and until further evidence comes out, i cant believe claims

[@Skwippy]

off topic but- I like how you used castle crashers ost lol , I was just playing the game last week xD

[@gachalifelilly]

oooOoo I love that game to bad I finished and no one wants to play with me anymore 😀😢

[@mr.x2567]

I never saw ANYTHING on Viv working on The Owl House, nor is The Owl House anywhere to be found on her IMDB resume. This person is lying and trying to rally up Owl House fans to attack her.

[@jake0324demo]

I love and respect Viv for all the amazing stuff she gave us with 2 shows at the same time, to work on both at the same time is a feat in it's own right. It is coincidental that these allegations came out around the same time Ms. Medrano started to take a break from social media after the bullying and harassment she received. It will be truly heartbreaking if this is all true, but she did have false allegations against her before, but this time it is different since it supposedly came from an ex-Spindlehorse employee or now so ex-employees. I am staying neutral and not taking sides unless more evidence comes out, I need to hear Vivzie's side of the story along with current Spindlehorse employees as both sides need to be heard before we make any cohesive conclusions. I learned this after the controversies with Projared and some of the Smash Bros. Community players like Nairo and Zero, who had proved innocence, took actions, and showed their sides of the stories after they got cancelled online and at events too. Thankfully they have all resurged. Again, unless we have more evidence and heard from both sides, I am not taking any sides here because if someone gets cancelled online from allegations without knowing the rest of the story, the damage will be done. Honestly has been a rough month for Vivziepop, first the harassment, and now ex-employee allegations against her.

[@nekorush5333]

This just sounds like fans were given a chance to become professional animators but didn't realize just how tough it would be since Viz wasn't part of a huge studio and her time schedule was to short for first time animators. Viz may have push them to hard but they also didn't know what they were getting into. Because Viz was branching away from just a simple animation on KZbin to a serial TV series the animators are going to be expected to work harder not for Viz but for the company wanting to serialize them into shows. I think there is fault on both sides and expectations that each other had that weren't going to be realized.

[@Littlefootshark]

I don't know if vivzi is the problem because she's making the series. Professionals have tons of help and plan Bs. The toxic work environment could come down to stress also art in general has a tendency to drain you for all your mental stability

[@Its_Asteria]

That's part of the reason why I dropped classes in college for art. And changing my major to forensics. It just. It can be really draining to use a hobby as your primary career. It sucks ASS sometimes. A lot of people tend to assume Viv is the problem. Every time. Due to past allegations when Hazbin hotel's pilot dropped. An extremely old thread was resurfaced and spread around. So honestly. People just expect the worst and call her guilty until proven innocent. Which. Shouldn't be the case Innocent until proven guilty. All these are, are allegations. And yeah sure maybe she did treat specific people unfairly. But does she do that to everyone or is it just a few individuals, is there a reason, etc. All we can really do is sit and wait because all we have. Are testimony and allegations. No proof of such behavior.

[@Falcon-doing-doodles]

Agreed. The expectation to do art you might not want to do is hard to deal with at times, and making a full time career out of it is really difficult. People act like making cartoons is all fun and games, but it's incredibly hard to do because art isn't an easy job

[@Princess_of_cute]

The thing is just, even if I wanted to believe that guy, to come out like that when Viv already has a hard time, make his claims pretty questionable. Then the way he describes her? Yeah, he would need to prove that, before I blame Viv for anything

[@asaknight321]

I understand burnout like if you've been working too hard on the show and you need a break but drama and or talking trash about vivziepop and it's pretty uncalled for. Poor girl's already dealing with 2 shows and this is making things harder for her and the team.

[@Lolsu.]

Bruh je Said stay neutral you should not pick a Side yet ✋✋✋

[@al8951]

So this person is just not allowed to talk about their experience because it makes things harder for Viv? If these allegations are true, then Viv is a shitty person. Honestly wouldnt be surprised if they are true lol

[@riverscore7745]

@@Lolsu. nah..people can pick a side if they want. Because it's hard to believe any of this when all it is just statements. There is no screenshots or evidence to back up these claims. People are pulling things to cancel someone poplar, this has happened many times before. The entire voltron fandom legit harassed the creators and bloody threatened them. Unless someone gives evidence and actual screenshots then it's hard asf to actually believe this stuff.

[@asaknight321]

@@Lolsu. exactly, I will but it's quite concerning that a lot of people especially old and new employees are coming out. You don't know who or what to trust

[@An262.]

This happens so often from ex-employees, i am literally not surprised. It's most often from people who got fired and thus are mad. I am not taking sides- yet, at least

[@dialdude3770]

These shows are great, but they shouldn’t be at the cost of people’s happiness. But I still need all the info to decide where I stand first.

[@sarawilliamson5420]

Actually this sounds like every person I’ve met working in media production. Especially those working for the mouse. Workers I’ve met said the most actuate depiction of the higher ups was the one in South Park.

[@mineflameblade8788]

You know when shits a little sus when the allegations didn't come out until Hellava Boss ran into trouble

[@solomonskey-animation]

For fuck's sake. I swear, someone gets accused of something heinous every other week. Frankly I'm not at all inclined to believe any of the allegations here. Most of what Erin says sounds like a flat-out lie.

[@vizardshi1863]

Quite frankly, tight deadlines and overworking is extremely normal within the animation industry. As well as not being allowed to work on any other projects while working on a current project. They probably should give up on their animation career if they're complaining about those aspects.

[@hereisahuman5977]

It's kind of hard to believe, as no one else working under her has had any complaints about her to my knowledge. I know this was awhile ago too but I know one of her animators started making her own show while working on the Hazbin Pilot, so I don't understand the loyalty to Helluva Boss thing. Also, I really don't think Vizzie has much authority to threaten other creators into not hiring her animators? Something could of changed from then but it still seems strange.

[@bubblebeam9970]

I feel like at this point all the haters are just trying to find reasons to get rid of viv and all the hard work she put into which isn't fair to all the people who worked hard on it or the fans.

[@chrisdemonight493]

I personally believe these allegations, just because it doesn’t seem very far fetched. Stuff like this happens all the time but it’s up to those making allegations to show a burden of proof.

[@cripplingbotanist2676]

I personally don’t, this person has been burnt out, and probably has mental health issues, so it isnt that far off if they were to fake everything up. And the other employee the one that said he didn’t get paid, apparently was willing to work for free and made false accusations of sexual assaults about one of his fellow employees

[@bloog7832]

Innocent until proven guilty is right, i can't believe after all those ex-workers came out but not even one of them managed to take a screenshot of the toxic discord? That strikes me as odd, so Ill wait for more evidence, and probably end up forgetting any of this due to a short attention span

[@ellasorrow4stolas445]

I need to say this. Don't harass any of us cosplayer's right now just trying to make a video and show how much we love the character. I'm dealing with this on tik tock right now. It's starting to piss me off. I'm in the middle with this situation because I have been harassed at work, and I honestly quit without a two week notice because I couldn't take it anymore. The timing is making me suspicious as well.

[@mancave10369]

What’s happened

[@ellasorrow4stolas445]

@@mancave10369 Anyone who cosplay Hazbin or helluva boss have been getting comments in their videos. We just want to cosplay the character and not think about this.

[@pepperpitz3291]

Burnout? In animation? Never heard of it. And no I don’t think having tight deadlines for a show like helluva boss is unique or even unexpected, it’s a NEW studio trying to pull off something no independent web animation has ever done before. And yea of course the deadlines, budget and middle men are going to be a thing. Like.. duh. It’s a NEW studio! Also can this person be more specific? They can’t verify the most specific claims and everything else is just vague. “No organization” “Tight deadlines” “Other people are unhappy too” Ok? Why? She hires independent animatiors off the internet for budgetary reasons. Has this person ever worked in animation before? Do they know how DEMANDING a real studio can be? Do they know what meeting a deadline on a shoestring budget is like? There’s no actual information about anything. Just “shit talking” and a bunch of ppl saying “I didn’t say anything at the time but…” Nah. Screw this drama. Too much riding on this show for me to care. Too many jobs and future projects in the works. Either be specific or chill out

[@xenosbreed]

As an artist who also who dealt with burnout so bad she can no longer even draw or even bear to look at her old art, I feel this very much, its soul crushing and I think it just speaks to how difficult animation and entertainment is to rank and file employees in general. It would be very disappointing to hear Vivianne isn't the best person, but they seem to be describing just favoritism in the work place, which is really hard to consciously avoid and the watching other animations and making fun of it, I dunno just doesn't seem that bad unless she was encouraging active hatred of other studios, but as a creator who has ripped on other works with friends its just not that bad. Even if the worst of what the claims are said are true, it sounds like just another poor work environment in the entertainment industry. Hope things aren't that bad, or that they've improved

[@goosejoke3724]

👍

[@kiwiwaltz6411]

4:27 people hire fans because they both have the Passion to accomplish and work on their project to you know...to me it just sounds sorta cartoonish how Vivzie is being described in the story

[@lovewilliamafton]

I'm honestly not too sure how to feel about the allegations and this situation as a whole. Although this individual makes Viv out to be an extremely toxic and unamicable person, Viv isn't the only one who contributes and creates both shows. So many amazingly talented artists and animators work day and night for both Helluva and Hazbin, and pour so much love into both shows. I feel like, if these accusations are true, and people end up boycotting both shows, the innocent animators and workers will be hugely negatively impacted by one person's selfishness. It's a convoluted situation, and although it may just be difficult for me because both of these shows are such huge comforts to me, I feel like it isn't right to hurt everybody just because of one person's arrogance.

[@torided9773]

I believe them. There is nothing reasonable about asking a handful of animators to have entire new episodes completed for a series every 1-2 months. That, logically, had to be extremely stressful and toxic. And hearing the things people who have known Viv personally or have met her had to say... Perhaps not everything is true, but there are certainly accusations that line up. I am not going to discredit what they're saying solely because i enjoy Helluva - because equating a show to the creator alone is silly and i refuse to blindly defend someone like that when i know from first hand experience that artists and animators are NOTORIOUSLY taken advantage of. Even in professional and organized settings - so especially in an indie unorganized setting. I do hope that things have changed though.

[@al8951]

Same. And also the whole Scott cawthon thing. I wouldnt be surprised if all that is true lol

[@lolineko2083]

Better scheduling should have been in place if this was a recurring complaint or issue within the studio...however animation and art take a lot of time and similiar expectations are in place even in an organized company or workplace..

[@Its_Asteria]

@@al8951 the Scott cawthon thing was blown out of proportion. I watched the whole thing unfold and was one of the people initially upset at first. But realized. He's just a person like everyone else. And yeah may have beliefs not everyone agrees with. But the freedom to donate to something is there. And. Even if he did donate to political parties people don't entirely agree eith. That doesn't reflect him as a person. And it definitely doesn't mean he doesn't do good all of a sudden. I mean. He donated a lot more to charities including the Trevor project and children's hospitals way more than the one time donation to a person he thought was the most credible for a job to do. I dunno. I've moved past being angry because it was unreasonable anger I was having. Twitter really blew it up and made it seem worse than it actually was. Now I don't know if that screenshot of his donation history are true or not. But his responses were clean and honest, so it likely is. But. It's in the past and he didn't really do anything to directly hurt anyone. I'd say it's a different situation to Viv because he was his own boss for the longest time and was mainly on the sidelines for group projects providing input rather than controlling its path and direction. Viv is a boss over multiple people who are working on something together. So the difference lies with the different work spaces and work ethic If you weren't talking about the whole donation drama thing with Scott. I'd like to know what you're talking about because I only ever knew about that as a fan of the things he made. So I'm just curious

[@LoreCatan]

@@Its_Asteria I agree entirely, that donation does not at all make him a bad person. I'm just sad that harassment is what made him decide that was a good time to retire, wish it happened in a better circumstance.

[@torided9773]

@@Its_Asteria voting for a conservative political party absolutely does hurt people lol

[@penntopaper9305]

that is such bullshit bro i cant 😭 vivzie constantly publicly praises other indie projects and frequently works on them herself. no solid proof whatsoever. not even screenshots. Also, the fact that he keeps stating over and over again that you don't have to believe him is extremely suspicious. its like he's gearing up for when people inevitably prove that at least half of what he said is complete petty bs. he'll just say "oh but i never said you *had* to believe it"

[@msky_uwz7451]

Sorry to say this, but animation industry, at least professional, is hell. It's hard to believe those claims, when most of them are "My friend is an ex-member..." "I've heard this from there and there", like show us receipts. There is NO evidence whatsoever.

[@Problem_Child]

I love Vivziepop and her work, and this situation makes me kinda sad. I have my doubts that this is true, given teh fact that there are no screenshots, however I doubt a bunch of her ex-employees would dogpile on her for no apparent reason. I have a lot of respect for vivziepop and her work, and in the past, allegations against her were false or taken out of proportion, but this seems a bit suspicious. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt until proven I shouldnt, but then again, I am biased.

[@oranjaglad8648]

Honestly I agree. You’d think they would provide screenshots of the situation to prove the allegations to be true. At least that’s my opinion.

[@Its_Asteria]

You'd think they'd have spoken up sooner with evidence. But they didn't until she had hate already before hand. It makes no sense

[@alucardakathebombasticbach2057]

Twitter existing as a platform might not be the worst mistake humanity has made, but it sure as hell feels like it

[@nathanantwhistle3869]

I'm taking EVERY accusation with a grain of salt. Thankfully, there are some people who believe in innocent until proven guilty. It's situations like this that make people believe that certain fandoms are toxic. I just hope Vivzie gets through this. Because there are positive fans out there who ACTUALLY support her and know when enough is enough. She, in my opinion, needs a break. We waited how long for Helluva boss to premier? I'm sure we can wait longer.

[@seandewar47]

Ah shit, here we go again

[@11th-lemon]

Something I don't understand about this kind of drama is why people insist on screenshots being actual evidence. Aren't they easy to fake?

[@biharimark5506]

Definitely skeptical about it, but we will see. Although them getting actual evidence against Viv would be hard, because they are definitely under NDA, so there is that. Many of the newer employees there are defending Viv, while older workers says otherwise. Perhaps both side of the coin is true, but we won't know it until Viv or perhaps Sam addresses this.

[@clovest3rs]

Remember, paying AND the fans are the main reasons why this drama is brung up. The Fans of HH and HB that rush the animators and annoy VAs, COOL YOURSELF. I am a fan of those shows myself, and the fact most fans are rushing Viv on the new HB episode and episode one of HH, also constantly asking VAs when the next episode is out, or what is in it, kinda pisses me off. Yes sure she said 1-2 Months for each episode, but do be aware at some point she MIGHT delay an episode due to burnout/how impatient everyone is, and/or animation problems. Be patient, you guys.

[@mlpdisneylover]

*sigh* one big thing I learned from the Brendon Urie allegations is to wait for a response from the accused, and find evidence to debunk the claim if you can. But the timing of these allegations against Vivzie is concerning (and the Brendon allegations also had suspicious timing).

[@vermelonYT]

I loved the show, now i figured out this happened and im sad that episode 8 might never come out.

[@Bleatnikofficial]

Lol it's really weird seeing people debate the validity of this, knowing the people involved. When I was being overworked on an affiliated project and not paid (despite being promised pay) I told Sam Miller and she laughed at me and said it was hilarious I thought I was overworked when I barely did anything. (I was in charge of the social media account, painted the banner, designed a main character, did character exploration drawings on the existing ones, and was eventually tasked with writing up my own contract and being the boss's emotional support and mediator for the team) Pay began being brought up in the work chat like it was an emotional issue, with the head of the team both arguing that they had saved up enough over the years, but also that they were sad they couldn't pay everyone fairly. When I suggested ideas for raising money they'd be brushed off in favor of more complaining. As a person that was brought on via an interview and was pitched the project as something that was also pitched to large studios and was closely affiliated with vivzie, and saw the amount of judgment that went into picking people for the team, I hadn't gotten any impression that this was a volunteer thing..? I had to stop taking commissions (my livelihood) in order to keep up with what was asked of me on the team and I lost hundreds of dollars as a result. The thing that made me feel most awkward was when pay was brought up, people in the business chat would run to reassure the project head saying they'd do it all for free. This worried me, since my partner had been nudging me to say something about not being paid for weeks and I'd told them it was fine, they were just busy and were going to get to it eventually. I made sure I didn't say anything cruel to the team members or to the head when I left and kept things really vague, I thought I had left the project peacefully in the end, and I was fuckin Bombarded with snippy dms from Jane Gumball and Sam Miller. I'd asked Sam for advice on what to do or say and if I should be worried about the payment thing (We go way back) and it felt like she took that as an opportunity to sport her company loyalty or something? It was heartbreaking. When I blocked them both to get the embarassingly "sassy" hate messages to stop, Jane immediately posted on her twitter "it's so nice when the trash takes itself out" and to this day I'm still like bro i just wanted to be fuckin paid?? 😂 I was TOLD i would be paid. Seeing as both Sam and Jane work on spindlehorse in high positions I am not even remotely surprised this would come up. They pride themselves on acting like gossipy high school teenagers and I'm sad to say for that short time I was really proud to be a part of their clique. The project was called "A Little Evil" if anyone feels like trying to dig for it, it's been a couple years now and I'm sure most of it was deleted by the project head (I heard from someone else that it tanked but didn't bother looking into it)

[@Fnafiac]

I wanna know how the Hazbin cast feels about this. We’ve only heard from one of them.

[@fatbeen]

Imagine unironically using "toxic" in 2022

[@jager477]

Im getting real sick of "DrAmA ThIs", "DrAmA tHaT", is it too much to ask to get along?!?

[@d.f.h6958]

I still stand by "Innocent until proven Guilty", Because this whole drama is like the Pyrocynical drama all over again. Pyro got caught in drama and then everyone hated on him and didn't give him chance to speak, And then when he proved himself Innocent despite all the "Real evidence",everyone pretended like it didn't even happen 🙄

[@Dualumina]

Assuming all socializing took place on Discord, it's unfortunately really easy to fake screenshots; using the web browser, you can inspect element to change what different sections say. So any evidence that might crop up should be taken with several grains of salt.

[@ReesesBees]

Exactly. It's sadly VERY easy to fake screenshots these days; with the right programs (or help), someone can easily edit messages of Vivzie praising her team or saying she cares about them and make the messages look like she's being harsh with them.

[@XMitrilXPL]

Didn't she start the whole attack on Scott Cawthon? I'm pretty sure she specifically was looking for stuff on him,found public records of his donation, and started the cancel war on Twitter I find that funny how that backfired at her back then and how even now problems didn't stop appearing on Knowing these things about her,I'm not going to be surprised if most of that stuff will be true

[@ReesesBees]

No, she didn't start the attack on Scott; by the time she said her opinion on his views, the attacks were already going full force.

[@lauravturner]

I will wait on this one. To lose motivation hurts. To be pushed out of a passion is crushing. I hope it isn't true. I will judge when we get more evidence on either side.