Why Marinette Dupain-Cheng is a Terribly Written Protagonist | Video Essay

[@eyelove_owlcity]

One million views? Really? I was actually just fooling around in this video. Wasn't being entirely serious. But thank you so much! #OwlCityRocks!

[@komorebi3555]

U deserve it man (Unrelated but since you seem to like OwlCity as I, I suggest listening to Jonathan Young's cover of Fireflies)

[@janelle121]

Congrats U Deserve It 😀✨

[@ltsKenzie]

lol cyrus you forgot about something. the reason marinette's parents are the best bakers in paris are they are the only bakers In the whole paris =)

[@jashandeepsingh2239]

Congrats man lol

[@not_hailey]

the moment when you're talking and ur dog barks-

[@yumekojabami1326]

Adrien, who marinette disliked like 20 minutes ago: *gives marinette an umbrella* Marinette: *instantly falls in love*

[@petal6437]

exactly. i would’ve liked it more if she didn’t fall in love right away, but she started to throughout the episodes. like she could see how kind he is and how much she likes him, but not right away.

[@despair8205]

@@petal6437 And maybe if it was shown that he reminds her of someone she loved and lost, or/and if she was less obsessive. Or even if she was actually a stalker, but would be some sort of a mysterious villain more, it would be interesting if Ladybug was secretly a villain.

[@fauxhuman0]

Marinette was already a creepy stalker for Adrian even before she actually met him

[@pinklilly4871]

@@petal6437 and when she would officialy be in love with him, as you said, she could help him or try to talk to him to show her interest to him like normal people, not try to know him better that himself

[@hello3945]

@@despair8205 hmm maybe Felix?

[@Knownnom]

Honestly if people call Adrien blind for not knowing Marinette likes him then Marinettes hella blind for not realizing that Adrien only sees her as a friend, and it'll be nothing more, she needs to stop this creepy behavior.

[@jesse3391]

Considering the maker of the show and stuff, it'll most likely become somthing more at the last ep of the show, as that tends to happen

[@ausetcollins4687]

@Kokichi Ouma KOKICHI OUMA? "GASP" I KNOW YOUR NOT ACTUALLY HIM BUT I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. You are so goddamn misunderstood.

[@honacat]

@@ausetcollins4687 wtf bro-

[@honacat]

@Kokichi Ouma I feel bad for u, Auset probably made u concerned about them

[@Klipp.vsp123]

Honestly this show is pretty shitty to even last this long they should have ended the show in season 3 tbh-

[@bibi3645]

I feel like marinette doesn’t even really see Adrian as he is, he has problems, flaws and strength, but she just sees in him someone that doesn’t have problems and that is just perfect and made to be loved and give love He isn’t an object

[@quietopinion9637]

Same with him

[@kemcaphe]

@@quietopinion9637 I mean, at least he’s not a stalker

[@abiade9614]

Yes, I absolutely agree. My main reason for it though is because of how she is with Chat noir. We have to remember, chat noir is Adrien at his most confident, and happiest. He gets to freely say and do all what he feels he cant at home. And sure, they work great as partners but a lot of the time she treats him as an annoying pest. So the question is, if she doesn’t like him at him when he’s himself why would she like him at all? And you could say “oh it’s because she likes Adrien too much to acknowledge anyone else.” But they’re the still same people.

[@karentorresalfaro3371]

And that's exactly why so many people like Marichat, because they think that if they get to know each other and know all their flaws and still fall in love then the relationship will be honest and work in the end.

[@BellroseJewel]

Oh wait! That sounds an awful lot like "Sakura loving Sasuke" back in the day. It never made sense to call it love, she was obsessed with his looks and popularity, before even talking to him. She will make fun of Naruto for being an orphan... in front of Sasuke who was also an orphan! The fact that she never acknowledged his struggles but still claimed to love him was... ugh. Marinette is actually lucky that Adrian is a good guy, if Adrian was troubled like Sasuke. You will actually see Marinette justifying and "loving" him even if he committed crimes

[@cardboardcutout]

I always see things like “OH MY GOSH ADRIEN IS SOOOO BLIND!” No, he’s just not interested and creeped out.

[@autisticwoman665]

Ikr!? Me too!

[@julietchristopher7578]

How did you know that? Your not the writer of the show?

[@dariodramac]

​​@@julietchristopher7578its obvious(and if the writer says hes just blind thats BS)

[@goosebumps892]

Adrien deserves better

[@cardboardcutout]

@@goosebumps892 YOU FOUND ME

[@lvnaya]

Imagine your “very good friend Marinette” breaks into your house, sniffs your bed, lays on your bed and explores your room just because she has a crush on you. Also she has your schedule for the next 3 years. Nope totally not weird 😟

[@justarandomperson8561]

And The gifts for 40 NEXT YEARSS

[@lvnaya]

@@justarandomperson8561 Yea she’s weird

[@Chieko1289]

Its the get out of my life for me. I don't need that kind of person in my existence

[@yamaguchis_fruity6945]

I would throw the whole ass friend away and if her/his friends ship us and support us being together i will throw them too

[@SanGal_101]

Yeah, I’d be disgusted. That behavior of hers is so weird and gross. But people defend her regardless since she’s the protagonist who’s “meant to be” with Adrien. Trust me, if she was a side character or a love rival, everyone would hate her and call her out more.

[@fritomusic7832]

The problem is they don’t choose to develop her as a character. Like it would be easy to develop her character, but nooooo. Like they keep repeating the same flaw in her character, and make nothing of developing it.

[@jinnessehayleyaltiveros9543]

No, they did develop her character a bit in season 4, but still. The shanghai movie and the other seasons? Gosh-

[@brycelacy3545]

@@jinnessehayleyaltiveros9543 A little bit maybe, but she still acts the same around Adrien, 4 seasons later.

[@justarandomperson8561]

@@jinnessehayleyaltiveros9543 they didn't In mr peagon 72 creepynette is back

[@Unknown-uy3qc]

@@justarandomperson8561 Creepynette😂😂

[@ectornale]

@@justarandomperson8561 Nah she's admitted to being creepy and is actively trying to move on and stop herself from being very obsessive. Like the ending of Mr. Pigeon 72, she was extremely startled but she ended up being reserved and more herself, which in turn made Adrien flustered. It was some nice development tbh

[@artperson7617]

Creators of MLB: "we're feminist because we have a female main character" Also creators of MLB: *makes the female main character's entire personality her crush on a guy and doesn't allow their secondary main character any depth beyond crush or comedic relief because he's a guy*

[@zerere_]

the crush, that is the main focus of a fmc, has more depth than her or most of the characters in the show.

[@trinny_y]

As Hades puts it “he’s a guy”

[@NoobMaster-lq9yb]

adrien is sometimes a literally punching bag of mlb

[@crazypegasie9748]

And the ironic thing is that feminism is about equality between genders, not males NOR females being 'superior'. Like bruh did the creators find the definition of feminism on TikTok or what??

[@onemoreweirdo207]

Wait, are they seriously trying to be feminists with that show? Because upon watching the first couple of seasons (got bored afterwards because repetitive) that never crossed my mind.

[@lumii_06]

One of the reasons I don't like her is that she's UNNATURALLY CLUMSY around a literal dude, but when she transforms with "magic" she's suddenly the bravest person in the world, like what??

[@andreasmeelie1889]

Well, it only happens when she has a crush on a guy not when she doesn't have a crush on a guy.

[@lumii_06]

@@andreasmeelie1889 yea, that's why I said "around a literal dude" referring to Adrien. Also she doesn't have a crush on him, she's just madly disgustingly obsessed with him at this point(adrienette

[@Kiryu-w]

I think that's the point, even Adrien changes when he transforms

[@lumii_06]

@@Kiryu-w well kinda. Adrien is what his father expects him to be, formal, etc on the other hand, cat noir is Adrien's true self. Meanwhile Marinette-Ladybug difference doesn't make any sense at all

[@Kiryu-w]

@@lumii_06 I see

[@Doomzdeh]

Marinette: - Endearingly clumsy to an unreasonable extent - Has two loving parents who trust her indefinitely and never punish or discipline her like real parents would do (unrealistic as heck and it takes away from the show for me) - Everyone loves her even though she has so many flaws (except for Lila and Chloe, who are so irredeemable that they can’t present effective foils to her) - Class President, Album Designer for the Famous Jagged Stone, Fashion Designer liked by Audrey Bourgeois, Guardian of the Miraculous, and Ladybug (the favorite hero of Paris for whatever reason) - Keeps Chat Noir in the dark on everything and consistently puts him down, even if it is done jokingly. And yet he still worships the ground she walks on - Everyone trusts her unconditionally despite all of her selfish mistakes - Stalks Adrien creepily despite almost never having quality or long conversations with him. And everyone encourages it and never yells at her for it, not even Adrien’s best friend or Tikki And she’s gotten away with all of these traits, with very little concrete or positive development, for 4 SEASONS!

[@crystalthalassa664]

Not to mention when Chat Noir DOES get upset at her bcs of keeping him in the dark and never giving a straight answer (she doesn't like him but got mad when he gave attention to someone else for once) he's the bad guy 🙄

[@ceton1843]

For the part about cat noir liking her even though she's being shitty to him : when we think about Adrien as a character I think it makes a lot of sense for him to just endure and for the most part not question her behavior. His dad taught him and I think it makes sense although it shouldn't be presented as ok. We would have needed extra effort on ladybugs part to keep their relationship healthy. And that's simply not the case which is sad bc she's supposed to be a hero u know someone exceptional who's determined to give their all for others. It's doesn't make sense that she is treating him like that.

[@GokuBlackRose978]

@@ceton1843 he was taught to be a rich simp. That is my final and only words I will say about him

[@ceton1843]

Something that also really bugs me is (like you said) that ladybug is the number one hero. I mean they are supposed to be equals. It's already getting unfair in how lady bug is the one who can deevilize akumas and repair all the damages and cat noir can just break something. It's a dope ass power but not relevant and nearly as exceptional as ladybugs. It's doesn't even make sense that ladybug can defeat a villain on her own and cat noir can't. Ladybugs only obstacle is that she might not be strong enough in which case literally any other hero could replace cat noir. For cat noir on the other hand its literally impossible. If they wanted this to be his role the cat noir miraculous should be alongside the other five and not next to ladybugs. Its also ridiculous how easily fixable this could have been. Just give cat noir the power to deeivilze the akumas and ladybug to restore everything to normal. They went through the effort of changing Felix to Adrien last second then surely they could fixed ladybugs and cat noirs powers .

[@kellabdjfoo]

OH MY GOODNESS FINALLY A LIST! LIKE LITERALLY HOW CAN ANYBODY LIKE HER ANYMORE I CANT-

[@winning5366]

his face when she said that they'll be fine without him *to his face* makes me cringe

[@miss_chelles1338]

Ikr. I was honestly more irritated than anyting.

[@laugh-a-gramstudios4601]

That episode oml I watched it one time and through the whole episode I wanted to never watch it again… sad how Melissa’s VA got stuck with the WORSE episode ever

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Yeah. Who wants to bet on Plagg's camembert that Plagg would've beaten the crap out of Marinette for saying that to Adrien?!

[@hunterofartemis7656]

What episode was that?

[@hunterofartemis7656]

Wait never mind

[@BoiledFarts]

she literally is obsessed with Adrien stole Adrien's phone left the child she was babysitting to be with ADRIEN?

[@strawberrymochi-m4b]

IKR

[@egyptianwerewolf1466]

That last part, your saying that as if that’s not something a “normal” teenage girl would do. Leave the babysitting to someone else, to be able to hang out with your crush. I mean, I wouldn’t do that For 1, I wouldn’t even be babysitting in the first place And 2, I have no idea of how it feels to have a crush on an actual person, so I wouldn’t pick them over getting money for looking after a small human being.

[@ZenitsuKunn]

@@egyptianwerewolf1466 crushy wussy

[@LexysamaIllustrations]

You do realize that BOTH of those times Alya is the one who involved Marinette right? And that both those times Marinette said NO because she was babysitting but Alya offered to look after Manon while Marinette made a move right? ALL WITHOUT MARINETTE ASKING. So your statement is literally wrong.

[@user-ht9ee8nq3b]

A literal child a whole goddamn CHILD

[@los.terkos]

The fact that adrien is the son of the MAIN FUCKING VILLAIN already makes him better for the narrative than maranette

[@astre1515]

Yes. It makes a better plot and it would make a Deep dive into the series. Don't get me wrong, Marinette is a good main protagonist it's just at times the writer just intend her to mess up and have totally unnecessary chaotic events happening to her. Marinette's whole personality is supposed to come off as an ordinary 14 year old with a few quirks on daily teenage life struggles but instead she mostly appears to be just someone who is weirdly overly infatuated with a boy and has a personality of a brick.

[@todorokisfavouriteobject9109]

Agreed, if he were the main character, it would be an amazing show plot.

[@epiphanymaplethorpe2592]

Send the link, please.

[@strawsbby]

@@drfrogscript Pls send the link

[@erenjaeuwus]

@@drfrogscript keep us updated 🙏im voting for you as president

[@tracyrivera2511]

Adrien could’ve been a better protagonist than Marinette ever was. She’s just horrible at this point, never liked her. Stayed for Adrikins and Chloe’s redemption arc(which probably never going to happen)

[@Ahiruuriha]

chloe had a redemption arc but they took it back because one of the creators hates her😻😻

[@despair8205]

@@Ahiruuriha How wonderful😍😍/s

[@thecloset6520]

@@Ahiruuriha imagine being a grown man and hating a fictional teenager YOU made, its a shame Chloe is my favorite character 😔

[@Ahiruuriha]

@@thecloset6520 Yeah, I fully agree. Her character development was actually one of the best in the show, but before the last episode of season 3?? or whenever she helps hawkmoth, the creator who made that one episode about himself went on a full rant about how he hates her and how she's irredeemable. His excuse for ruining her even further in the new season is that she was faking it for Adrien 😐 which...just is one of the worst excuses ever considering how passionate she was about becoming better so she could be queen bee. I also feel like because of the hatred the one creator has for her, is what makes Marinette's character so shitty especially to her as ladybug.

[@thecloset6520]

@@Ahiruuriha ik, its funny how Marinette was the cause of more akumatized people than Chloe, among other bad things she does, yet Thomas still buts her on a high pedestal

[@TheSylphxd]

as person who once got stalk by obsessive stalker. it not romantic, not cool. it scary as hell.

[@Pyramidheadsb00bies]

Am I allowed to ask what happened or is it too scary to talk abt it 😭 (IM GENUINELY CURIOUS BTW)

[@TheSylphxd]

@@Pyramidheadsb00bies so i befriended this one girl because we share so much in common. Little did i know that that was the day i was going to get stalked. She was obsesses with me because i was the first person to ask to be her friend. She has trauma of being abandoned by her friend so that why this stalking thing happend. I don't want to unfriend her because of her trauma but she made me uncomftable and when i told her to stop stalking she refuse to stop and joked that she might kidnap me. Btw we go to same school and her classroom is above mine and were on oppsite side (malaysian school) and her seat assigned is next to window that point directly at my classroom's back door and my seat assigned is literall expose on the classroom's backdoor so her stalking would be easier if she look outside the window. There is multiple time where i caught her stalking me either through her classroom's window or she standing infront of my class. I usually tries to avoid her apparently there is a word called anti-stalker (basically it mean you study someone daily life/routine and ect just to avoid them) and i basically study everything about her to avoid her even changes my daily routine and my look so she won't find me. Can't wait for next year because i won't be sesi petang (in malaysia there this sesi pagi or sesi petang it basically mean that you go to school on mornig (sesi pagi) or on evening (sesi petang). Im sorry for bad english because english isn't my first language and i suck at explaining

[@_tamashii_]

@@TheSylphxd That sounds genuinely horrifying. I hope you're doing better now and that she lost interest in you over time.

[@TheSylphxd]

@@_tamashii_ good news! Im no longer being stalked. She apologized and now stop stalking me

[@_tamashii_]

@@TheSylphxd I am glad to hear that! Thank goodness she's finally aware of her actions. You can now be at peace and no longer must you feel anxious or scared when attending school.

[@sunny_yaoi1827]

If the genders were switched, the show would never have come out. Because a man doing what Marinett does would be completely wrong.

[@moniqueboucher8011]

* Marinette

[@docvoygx3788]

Meanwhile Cody from total drama island who’s a guy

[@Maite-Maria]

@@docvoygx3788 I watch this show 😭 Cody is overrated and i don't like him but he's not a horrible person like Marrinete, and when he met Sierra he finally knew what he did was wrong

[@sigmakeyboardwarrior]

this has happened in many animes and the gender reverse thing doesnt work in media or in real life yall just wanna believe that men are oppressed in some way

[@Harricota]

@@docvoygx3788total drama island has some inappropriate scenes, also the entire series (including blurring of those scenes) is 13+ meanwhile Miraculous Ladybug is rated for all ages.

[@Winter-tz8ei]

Honestly if Marinette and Adrien get together it’s gonna be kinda toxic. Considering how freaking POSSESSIVE she is when they weren’t even dating yet like imagine how much more possessive she’d be-

[@FireflyArc]

I hope in the future they grow up emotionally. A lot of fanfiction is focused on her moving on

[@Az-pool]

Heck, in that one episode where Marinette confesses to Adrien it actually goes very bad. I don't know which episode it is, but Catnoir turns to White.

[@illusion8431]

@@Az-pool Oh yea it's chat blanc Maybe their foreshadowing 🧐?

[@Az-pool]

@@illusion8431 possibly.

[@FireflyArc]

@@Az-pool chat blanc was à good obstacle to why not just tell each other. At least for marinette.

[@gracegallus1228]

I hate how when she and Adrien swapped powers, he struggled with the ladybug powers, but she was perfectly fine with the black cat miraculous. It would’ve been a good opportunity to have the audience appreciate how far both characters have come. But instead, it just made Adrien seem inept and Marionette seem ‘flawless’, smh

[@Karomix3]

Well she did get ahead of herself and made things worse by using Cataclysm on Reflektdoll causing it to go berserk and that was all on her, Mister Bug told her he never used his Cataclysm on a sentimonster before, and she never thought what it would do to them, but she screwed that one up and was forced to think of something, she was also salty that Mister Bug got what he wanted, a mirror, saying he had beginner's luck, clearly jealous that he could get what he wanted for the situation while she always goes blind.

[@gracegallus1228]

@@Karomix3 Good point!

[@erenjaeuwus]

she was unnecessarily bitchy towards him too, yet the fandom praises this as like “quirky queen” or something my man adrien was just trying to ask for help and she was such an ass to him and somehow used the cat miraculous flawlessly too like?? its like those things where someone is like “ive never played the piano before” *touches one key and somehow plays some legendary ass music*

[@mybackup1428]

YES. I was so.mad during that episode, like Chat Noir struggles a lot too. I hope in season 4 he sees what a terrible person Ladybug is.

[@luigigx1172]

Oh My God I hated that

[@ducktified112]

And I hate that most people hates Kagami just because SHE LIKES ADRIAN

[@marygraceoyangorin8918]

People on the miraculous fandom hates every girl that likes adrien.

[@despair8205]

Personally, I really love Kagami and Lila. I know Lila is not the best person but I find her interesting.

[@qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm3093]

I actually found her interesting, but I feel like she became less fun to watch when she was with Adrien

[@insertname6211]

She broke up with Adrian because she thinks Adrian and marinette are meant to be and she won’t even be friends with Adrian now sorry if I spoiled but marinette just gave Adrian trust issues and now he has no one cause of marinette

[@dangerousboop]

I liked Chloe before I stopped watching because of marrinette being a terrible character

[@ladylianhua]

She is the worst protagonist ever, also Adrian deserves better.

[@arindammishra2329]

Adrian should be the only protagonist of the series Also I think chloe would be a better heroine than ladybird with character development

[@ladylianhua]

@@arindammishra2329 Same, but I think Kagami will be a great heroine too.

[@tme1518]

What's sad is that if it was Adrien stalking Marinette, SO MANY more people would hate on the show and would probably try to cancel it. Like- girls stalking guys is a problem too you guys :/

[@LocalGooberGoobs]

Exactly! They think if the girl stalks him, she’s “sO qUiRkY aNd cLuMsY” But when the boy stalks her, he’s “creepy and disgusting” It’s truly annoying

[@tme1518]

@@LocalGooberGoobs Yes!! Oh my God I hate this

[@DioDeezBrando]

No no that would only happen if he was ugly

[@amarithemelon7457]

@@DioDeezBrando Tru tru

[@youshouldknowmyname8770]

@@DioDeezBrando dio yout right dio sama this reminds me of a crime that happened a guy ran over a girl and her baby and people defended him bc he was "handsome"

[@alzada_]

It makes it even weirder how obsessive she is considering she’s only 14 (She might be 15 now, sorry If I got the age wrong, but my point is she’s still pretty young)

[@ruchismitadas1308]

and what bugs me even more is its a kids show its meant for kids but what are they learning they are learning how to stalk someone

[@bavausthad5128]

She's older but i don't know the correct age

[@mercury9641]

@@bavausthad5128 it was said in serie "Befana"

[@gallerycatstudios8018]

@@ruchismitadas1308 ha, "bugs". I get it

[@randomartistd5130]

14!?!!!

[@clown-cult96]

As a woman and a writer, can we PLEASE stop making it acceptable for female characters to behave this way? It’s not cute, funny, relatable or admirable. If it’s supposed to be a flaw or supposed to be toxic by design, that’s fine. It’s part of complex story telling. Characters don’t have to be perfect. But for the love of god, put a crumb of effort in and make it clear that this behaviour isn’t a good thing instead of constantly framing it in a positive “such a quirky girl” light. I’m tired, y’all.

[@floofyfurret]

THANK YOU.

[@thirtysixviews]

What makes it worse: Marinette is 13-15 years old and she’s supposed to be treated as a role model for girls her age or coming of that age. It’s really gross that the show is supposed to paint her as a good person but her actions are completely otherwise. It’s absolutely asinine.

[@spookypopcorn]

Marinette is favorited in the show because she's Thomas's virtual kid with his words "French/Chinese ex" hes supposed to be Tom which is retarded because if he already has a self insert why make a self insert again like your already her dad in the show 🤨 and then Sabine is his ex and stalkernette is they're nonexistent virtual kid 👀

[@queenmary2452]

This is facts! Ik someone that likes the show and when I bring up why I think Marinette is creepy (stalking Adrien, knowing LITERALLY everything abt the dude, stealing Alya's phone and lots of weird shit this girl has done) they would hit me with the "it's just a show'' and I'm always like soooooooooo?😭

[@spookypopcorn]

The Duke they mean just a show wrong is wrong

[@Hiruhoshigirl]

It literally went, cute umbrella scene to 'Yeah, so this is his entire schedule....' 😭

[@Anyusername-o2e]

I was 13 when I discovered the show and didn’t understand how bad the situation was so I tried doing the same to my crush. I knew his height his weight, his favorite sport and team, favorite food, shoe size, classes too, even where he goes during lunch. Ladybug influences kids these things and now that I look back I feel so bad for the poor boy, DONT NORMALIZE STALKING TO YOUNG KIDS 😭 Edit : now 200 people know my darkest secret 🥹

[@autisticwoman665]

Oh my God I'm so sorry to hear that... What is wrong with Thomas mind?

[@Anyusername-o2e]

@@autisticwoman665 thanks, what makes it more awkward is that we’re still in the same school 😭👍

[@autisticwoman665]

@@Anyusername-o2e NO WAY!?😨 That's even worse... 😱💀

[@moniqueboucher8011]

I did a very similar thing, and I regret it

[@Anyusername-o2e]

@@moniqueboucher8011 its okay youre not alone 😞

[@aleatar]

The worst thing in this whole mess is that the show actually tries its hardest to push the narrative that Marinette is the epitome of perfection, and when she even makes mistakes, she learns her lesson. Except that she doesn't learn crap! And after that Thomas Astruc has the audacity to basically scream in every fan's face that Chloe, a person with pretty realistic human flaws, is unredeemable. I smell big fat hypocrisy here, Thomas.

[@MiMimUta]

Haven't watched this show in a while but I remember a point where Chloe was so close to being redeemed but her arc suddenly took a turn and she became unlikeable again? It felt really forced imo

[@voidnoidoid]

@@MiMimUta same. she was given a redemption arc and a chance to finally become a better person, but suddenly she had reverted to her old ways and was basically replaced with a new queen bee

[@ミリア-d1q]

well, considering chloe is the meanest bitch in the show and quite literally a racist, i fail to care about it

[@aleatar]

@@ミリア-d1q nobody says she's perfect, nor does she need to be. People are all different. And I don't care about Chloe as a person, we're talking about the show in general and the bad attitude of the creator. And I was talking about hypocrisy and poor writing. Why dedicate so much screen time to her and show her signs of development, just for erasing everything later, thus making everything pointless? Either they had to fill their excess screen time (in that case they wasted time poorly - there are a lot of gaps in the show that desperately need to be fixed), or the writers just screwed up. And it was confirmed that there was tension between Thomas and others on the team about Chloe's fate. Either way, it still comes down to poor communication and poor writing.

[@ミリア-d1q]

@@aleatar of course its bad writing, i agree. i just dont care that chloe wasnt "redeemed" because most of the stuff she's done is just irredeemable. she was terrible

[@user-uv5tr3qj9m]

Honestly the show made Marinette’s obsession with Adrian seem normal to me as a kid. It’s toxic and unhealthy but this is never addressed. I can’t imagine thinking that that level of infatuation is ok today

[@maozedong4010]

Marinette in the 2d trailer or should I say the PV is more great than the Marinette that we got because the 3d show is aimed at younger audience that didn't understand love, meanwhile the 2d trailer or the PV looks more anime like and is aimed at Young adults other than that Felix is supposed to be the male protagonist and Marinette is less of a stalker but more like a young woman who tried to find love and that's why we need the 2d series . Sorry if you didn't understand english is not my first language.

[@Ulysses96331]

I always assumed this as well and its probably why I overlook it.

[@m4ya.a]

Yeah this proves my point in the comment I made. It is targeted towards children (I’m pretty sure) and it encourages stalking and acting as if the person you’re attracted to is your possession. I found out why Marinette is like that. She has obsessive love disorder. It’s a disorder about someone obsessing and treating their love interest as if they’re a possession that needs to be protected. I’m quite sure that the writer didn’t intend for her to have this disorder.

[@dacrese]

And her friends enable it to make it seem justifiable to us. But now that I reflect over Marinette’s obsession with Adrien you could definitely tell that it was very unhealthy. And there is no underlying reason why she might be obsessing over Adrien like being hurt by someone rlly bad or something.

[@kihoyo4771]

I thought it was just exaggeration since you know…kids show..?

[@kajiyamas]

the way marinette acts like she has some kind of "claim" on adrien or that he belongs to her, when she doesn't even have the guts to ask him out, is beyond me

[@avieebvlogs8018]

Exactly it’s so annoying. And then when Adrien was with Kagami she just ran to Luka and played with his feelings when she knew and everyone else around her knew she was “in love” with Adrien. At this point she’s not in love she’s obsessed.

[@0nikolaigogol0]

If she's friends with him and is "aFrAiD" to ask him if he wants to hang out or to give him presents in person, she shouldn't whine if he hangs out with another girl

[@midoriyamayhem]

And that absolutely no one holds her accountable for all that’s shit if anything they all encourage her

[@edwardelric2905]

@@midoriyamayhem I’m sorry but the last thing I expected here was Bakugo- I- Pfttttt- 😂 Also, you’re correct.

[@paofushi]

i agree lmao !spoilers¡ on season 4 i genuinely felt bad for Luka, imagine your dating someone and all of your "friends" says that this person your dating likes a different person and they say it Infront of you, but looking at the show where they make Luka not care about her liking Adrien even tho they're already in a relationship is kinda- weird i suppose. This is just my opinion btw

[@Superawsomesuperkai]

The majority of the fandom calls Adrien blind for ignoring Marinette's "signs" which are not love signs that are creepy stalker signs. And are so sympathetic to Marinette like whenever Marinette is sad because of Adrien calling her "Just a friend." which is stupid because she calls him "just a friend" but is sad when Adrien calls her "just a friend" But still the fandom is like "Poor Marinette." But what about Adrien? But in reality Adrien has went through so much more (than Marinette He lost his mother. He most likely has trauma from loosing his mother. who have seemed to have planed his whole future when he was very young with modeling. We don't even know if he likes modeling since we don't see his POV much. Had so little social interaction because he was homeschooled until he was 14. He's a victim from his father's abuse. He struggles. He isn't perfect. He faces big consequences for his actions. Faster Fu(ck) has mostly ignored him and seems to have not taught him anything. In The New York Special aka The Most Sh* Special Ever Ladybitch has broken his heart and have treated him like sh*t. Ladybitch mostly treats him like sh*t and almost never treats him like an actual partner. Has been stalked multiple times by his so friend He's not only a victim from his father's abuse but also a victim from Marinette's his so called friend's abuse. Marinette doesn't love him, the "love" that she feels for him is obsession, she's just a creepy, obsessed Adrien fan. They're not even friends. Marinette is a creepy stalker and Adrien is the victim, that doesn't realize that he's the victim but don't blame the victim aka Adrien. And so much more.

[@Superawsomesuperkai]

27:34-27:48

[@Superawsomesuperkai]

28:21

[@MegatruxFR]

Come on Thomas, i don't want to see some annoying pick me girl and her friends that stalk a guy in her class and somehow knows his entire life schedule, i wanna see backstory on the guy that yk, doesnt know that he is the son of the biggest villain in the show..

[@theresaetefia3092]

​@@MegatruxFR OK,ok she is an annoying obsessed stalker but definitely not a pick me

[@MegatruxFR]

@@theresaetefia3092 k sure

[@sayu403]

At this point Marinette's character arc should just be her friends finally calling her out on her creepy behavior and telling her to move on

[@sayu403]

And honestly i blame Marinette for lila becoming evil

[@emircanozad914]

@@sayu403 That's how the liars are.

[@quietopinion9637]

@@sayu403 lol Lila was evil before she met Marinette don't get things twisted

[@quietopinion9637]

lol she actually called them out for being invasive love that she did that finally!

[@vibezonegaming]

Lila was a compulsive liar with minimal restraint. Her only restraint on her lies is Adrien. She’s as bad as Marinette is with Adrien except Lila’s better at hiding her toxic traits.

[@shawtywiththesolluxpfp618]

I feel like Marinette's inherent problematic-ness isn't the issue; a character without flaws is pretty boring. The issue is that her flaws aren't treated as flaws, and the audience is expected to just roll with her stalker tendencies as if they're totally normal. Its even worse when she's supposed to be this shining example of heroism and moral purity when she casually does awful things in the meantime that we usually get no indication that she's learned or grown from them

[@khalidalbash7932]

I mean didn’t she kinda back off when Adrian and kagami started dating, of course she was jealous but at least she didn’t try to break them up.

[@khalidalbash7932]

Didn’t she also try to get them together after they broke up?

[@justarandomperson8561]

@@khalidalbash7932 she was in a relationship with luka

[@mint7442]

Yeah it’s half, not having a good excuse, half expecting us to excuse her actions

[@MeganAllen1738]

@@justarandomperson8561 she wasn't dating Luka when she tried to get Kagami & Adrien back together as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong though

[@caramel7168]

If you look really close into Lila and some scenes of her life at home, you can kinda see why she may lie and hate Marinette. Compared to Marinette, she doesn't exactly get the attention from her parents since they're pretty busy and she couldn't exactly be herself to anyone. While with Marinette, she has two loving parents who give her support and attention as needed and she can be herself and everyone likes her for herself. Lila probably just feels jealous of Marinette which may explain why she may hate her. Also, her lying can just be a coping mechanism. This is just a random thought and explanation I found somewhere on the internet on this.

[@isilencexspades0133]

yeah I can tell, but that's pretty overrated and I have seen this (some) on other shows. but it explains why Lila is jealous. Marinette's family is literally more famous than Chloe's because of her "famous parents, famous uncle"

[@3rebella]

Lila is more of a character than Marrinette

[@lamphiaalonso5341]

On a well written show, womething like this could be explored, but mlb doesnt go beyond "Lila bad". It somewhat implies the idea, but thats lazy, so im personally not willing to give them the credit

[@MyHumorIsBrokenLoL]

I like how people go out here to defend Lila about this stuff yet nothing about Chloe who experienced the exact same thing.

[@rujulak9296]

There was no reason for Marinette to hate on Lila. She was just jealous.

[@LiivelyLulu]

I remember how much I hated whenever someone criticized Marinette and talked about her being a creepy stalker. I didn't deny the fact that she was obsessed with Adrien (I thought it was creepy myself) but I just hated how people were always calling her out for it. Only recently, I finally realized what a shitty character she actually is. She's obsessed with Adrien, bullies any other girl if they get close to him and literally has her entire future planned with him. If she loves him that freaking much, why can't she confess her love like Chat noir did for Ladybug? At this point, she's just obsessed with Adrien. This is NOT true love. I feel so damn bad for Adrien, he seriously deserves so much better than Marinette who's selfish, insulting and creepy. And she's always treating Chat noir like garbage, as if he doesn't matter (especially in glaciator 2). This video was great.

[@eimee_]

In my opinion the only thing that Tikki said that’s true was when she said “How is Adrien the love of your life when you can’t even talk to him Am I seeing things or is it true that I have 5.2k likes in this comment

[@kiarara7014]

Fr. I feel like tikki and a few other characters actually have brain cells. The rest are just….no thank you.

[@theaspreysisters3587]

NOW INSULTING TIKKI NO I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU WOULD DO THIS I CAN TAKE INSULTING MARIONETTE BUT NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY INSULTS TIKKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@eimee_]

@@theaspreysisters3587 are you okay

[@happybunnyfan1133]

@@eimee_ don't worry it's just a angry fan

[@dumbledoratheexplorer1252]

@@theaspreysisters3587 no, Tikki is like an incomplete character. Ok we know what she does but how about giving her an actual personality instead of just her helping marinette

[@xiolq7097]

She went to a whole different country to be with ADRIEN

[@Im_bor3d0]

*got lost in a foreign country country JUST TO BE WITH ADRIEN

[@dragonempress8367]

Stalker party let's go!

[@bluebird1914]

She also spent that time ditching her uncle who was such a nice guy, like he just wanted to spend time with his niece. Also I'm pretty sure it was his birthday, and Marinette just ditched him to be with Adrien. And that's not even mentioning the fact that the Shaghai special takes place when she's dating Luka. She shouldn't be doing shit like that when she has a boyfriend.

[@ghostphira8712]

@@unused24 Tbh her parents do spoil her but in the Shanghai special she lied to them saying she want to visit her uncle and learn more about her roots, her parents saved up that money for that purpose but then Marinette goes just to be we with Adrien

[@navywavymh1485]

@@bluebird1914 knowing that she was in a relationship during the special just makes it alot less romantic, does she even like luka or was he her punching bag.

[@good_c0ffin575]

I think that the worst problem of marinette is that she can not separate herself from ladybug. She can not understand that marinette is not ladybug and ladybug is not marinette. She use her "alter ego" at her own convenience. She can not keep ladybug and marinette as two different beings. Because she really thinks that she is ladybug, but not, she needs to turn into ladybug for the safe of paris, it is not something she can play with, but she just don't understand it. She alone puts her identity at risk for her impulsive and selfish actions

[@Caitlyngrin]

Um what? She littelry knows how to deal with a Miracoulus

[@chas500]

@@Caitlyngrin ofc she does, how else would she be lady bug💀

[@Caitlyngrin]

@@chas500 like um People das she abuses her powers like bro

[@minnamiin]

@@Caitlyngrin she does abuse her power

[@Caitlyngrin]

@@minnamiin Can we just enjoy the frickin show instead of arguing about characters

[@aaron_99887]

and the fact that Adrien had so many haters when Marinette had so many fans is just.. adrien deserves better.

[@fionna_cool_girl]

I literally can't believe....all this started because Adrien just gave her an umbrella...

[@dilucisbetterthanyou4267]

right a whole obsession because of an umbrella 🤨

[@sylva.s]

ikr like i started liking my crush after maybe 2 weeks of first talking to him. i liked how he was talkative and fun to be around, i know and accept his flaws unlike mari… she’s like: first i hated him because i assumed he put gum on my seat then at the end of the day he gave me an umbrella then boom i started liking him. i enjoy the show a lot but it’s very toxic and unrealistic so i like it as a show not like something i would look up to cus like heck no-

[@fionna_cool_girl]

@@sylva.s yeah I only keep up with the show because of the kwami's and super powers and transformations. The way they handle relationships in this show is so toxic because of the writing and lack of how real people act in the real world when it comes to crushes. I know it's supposed to be fictional...but come on... Depicting this type of toxic relationship as the main focus with your show is just awful writing. I love Nino and Alya's relationship much more than any relationship in the show because it's the only one that's actually healthy

[@sylva.s]

@@fionna_cool_girl yes exactly- i may be obsessed with my crush but not to the point i will stalk him, i don’t know where he lives, i don’t know his parents, i don’t even know most of his friends, we have the same class so his timetable is the same but that’s school i don’t know his whole extra curricular activities and what time we wakes up/goes to sleep whatever that’s just tooo much

[@fionna_cool_girl]

@@sylva.s yes! And that's how a normal crush should be! She's just a mega ultra stalker. Honestly if this show was a full blown anime, she's riding very close to almost being a yandere. Like...geez she is so obsessed that it's not even cute anymore. I stopped caring about the relationship after season 2.

[@B3IIatrix]

She only went to China to visit Adrien. She literally used the money her parents had been saving for years so when the moment she wants to learn about her heritage comes...to see her crush...she's way to obsessed, I'm surprised Alya hasn't tell her that yet, but then again, I suppose we can only blame the writers for it

[@dancordea9149]

@caitt It's not like Adrien has gotten over Ladybug in 3 seasons, despite getting rejected multiple already. And why did he even fall in love with her in the first place ? Cause she's a hot super hero ? LOL. Cat Noir was literally hoping for people to get akumatized just to spend more time with Ladybug, despite already having a GIRLFRIEND, why is nobody calling him out on this ?

[@Latency345]

@@dancordea9149 if Chloe’s pretty annoying advances makes her his “girlfriend” then babe, Marinette would definitely take Chloe’s roll in two seconds

[@mallorycharbonneau4966]

@@Latency345 i think they were referring to kagami

[@dancordea9149]

@@Latency345 What does Chloe even have to do with this ? Adrien and Kagami were dating in Lies before they broke up at the end of the episode, get your facts straight.

[@aalborchh]

Alya is a terrible friend tho 🤡

[@snooker7107]

Imagine Marinette being a guy and doing this to a female adrien. We would immediatly find this problematic, but a 14 year old girl doing this...

[@lee_likes_bees]

FR

[@sould3485]

IKR OMG your comment have to be pinned

[@snooker7107]

@@sould3485 Glad you agree!

[@foularekusa]

if marinette was a guy and adrien was a girl like you just said, she’d be considered a creep by everyone and she would probs have a restraining order or some shit lol but since she’s a girl nOoO “it’s completely okay”

[@asamabry]

sigh people dont think women can be assholes

[@Mona-b8g3d]

I hate this series with all my heart, I can't believe I was a fan before

[@Hate-e30]

Me too....I can't believe I used to like Marinette over chole,lila when I was a kid 😭

[@nonamedpersonn]

I used to like this series too. I'm kind of glad I stopped watching the show after 2-3 months

[@TheVengefulSpiritCassidy]

Bro, when I was young I loved this show but now uhmm. I hate Marinette, Chloe as a character is better than her.

[@vincentsowell2314]

​@@TheVengefulSpiritCassidyYeah, I used to like this show when I was young, but now? I'd lost interest in that show, I'm more interested in the Captain Underpants franchise

[@clarahyatt5360]

also i find it funny that marinette finds cat noir annoying when adrien is most himself when he is cat noir, and yet, when she's barley talked to him and only knows what any fan would know, about him, she loses her sense of morality

[@raquelleursulavonschnovel]

Omg that’s a great point! It further proves that she’s obsessed with the idea of Adrien, rather than the sincerity of Adrien’s true personality

[@aperson3832]

I know right! The creators should've actually be thinking.

[@MistressFearless]

True. It's further proof that Marinette doesn't deserve Adrien in the slightest.

[@kubelek37]

Really makes you wonder, how would it really believe when they find out who they are. "If you can't tolerate me at my worst, then you don't deserve me at my best" as Facebook minion posts say or something

[@joshwright4799]

Claro hyatt who will win the fight omni man ( invincible ) or rogercop ( miraculous: ladybug & cat noir ) and why?

[@manuelsohner6549]

She loves the idea of ​​Adrian, which she imagines in her head, but she doesn't love the real Adrian. Cat Noir is Adrian's true self. The mask / costume frees him, he no longer needs to pay attention to what people expect of him as Adrian or to what extent his actions fall short of his father's fashion company; under the mask he can be completely himself. And how is cat noir? Funny, trusting, willing to help, adventurous, brave, selfless, self-sacrificing and sometimes quick-tempered. But Marinette finds it all rather annoying, makes fun of him (Cat Noir), doesn't take him seriously and even encourages others to do the same (Alya - laugh at his jokes even if they're not funny). This is best seen in the episode "Desperada": Adrian makes a joke as Aspike Marinette (who knows that Aspike is Adrian) laughs at the joke just because "Adrian" made it. Then after Adrian /Aspik turned the events backwards, the serpent miraculous was handed over to Luka, who becomes Vipirion, this time Cat Noir makes the same joke as he made as Espike and Marinnett only reacts nerf. This shows that she doesn't love the real Adrian, but only the idealized version of Adrian that she imagines. And now I ask everyone to convince me otherwise, but with factual arguments and evidence.

[@bakugokatsuki128]

This is probably the most underrated comment in a while and I AGREEE

[@fartinfpooping8801]

Damn... well said 👏👏👏

[@MissJJoan]

I'm really starting to question which persona is the real Adrian though. *season 4 spoilers ahead* * In "Lies" he makes a cat pose telling Kagami that's the real him and at that point I thought, ok, that's the real him. But then, in Rocketear, it's implied that his "catlike charm" comes from Plag's influence on the suit, not from him, and in Dearest Family, we see that kwami's feelings influence the wearers of the suits. Finally, in Glaciator 2, he says from now on, he's going to be more like "himself" and less like Cat Noir to try to win over Ladybug. I think the writers this season are doing a retcon to correct this very thing because it doesn't match up with the way he's been portrayed up till now, which is feeling free to be himself as Cat Noir, and Ladybug rejecting him again and again, though that's the real him. But it makes no sense for Cat Noir to change for her. Why have him change?? Cat Noir has good qualities. As you said, adventurous, brave, loyal, dependable. I'm with you 100%. If she can't see his qualities as Cat Noir, then she doesn't deserve him.

[@ummdustry5718]

I think it could be argued that she does think very highly of chat in most senses (the sort of behavior towards him we see in Reflectdoll being more the execption that the rule). it's just that his advances would count as sexual-harrasment in any reasonable workplace, and his humour isn't necessarily the most appropriate thing for life-and-death situations. That's then enough for her to stay focused on Adrien. Given that state of affairs 'giving chat noir a chance' would be dishonest and basically just 'leading him on' due to his immaturity and incessence, she chooses behave cold to his face as a perverse act of kindness. The two characters would both unironically be doing great romantically if they just took chill-pills and stopped being so stalkerish. Marinette would win over adrien quickly if she just tried to be his friend first and his 'future wife' second and Ladybug would become comfortable and warm around chat if he didn't keep confronting her with a love he knows she doesn't reciprocate.

[@lottieeee675]

SPOT ONNN

[@ananyanyan]

Marinette is: -Overly clumsy to the point where its more annoying than quirky -Unhealthily obsessed with a boy who visibly only thinks of her as a friend -Ironically her clumsiness disappears when she becomes a superhero - Stalks her crush and misuses her powers just for him -Literally a bit TOO perfect to the point where its unrealistic

[@hearts4rosalyne587]

this comment is: -true -true -true

[@Darksin757Production]

they tried to make her relatable in the first few times she transformed by notmaking her too perfect and afraid to be a superhero. But then yea she started being too perfect.

[@TTricksterPanda]

So, a Mary Sue

[@ballcrusher999]

and literally every male in the show likes her

[@Darksin757Production]

@@TTricksterPanda yea pretty much.

[@yasmine2370]

The problem lies in the fact that the writers of the animated series do not consider Marinette's mistakes and problematic behaviors as intentional transgressions. This is why she faces no consequences, as they believe her actions do not cause any real harm and are simply perceived as amusing and cute. Even though objectively she acts similarly to a yandere personality, excluding murder. It is clearly the fault of the writers who do not want to take responsibility for disastrous narrative choices. Making Marinette a complex character could have been achieved by either : 1) subjecting her to the consequences of her actions and openly acknowledging that her behavior is morally reprehensible, to serve as a lesson for children and to show that Marinette is a human character capable of both good and bad things but takes responsibility, or 2) exploring the path of vice and openly embracing Marinette's dark sides, allowing her to undergo a negative character arc where she becomes more of an anti-hero, instead of remaining in this middle ground where the character is supposed to be "kind" from a narrative standpoint, even though, factually, that is not the case, and the narrative favors her.

[@yasmine2370]

Personally, in addition to the points you mentioned, what irritates me the most about Marinette is the unequal dynamic with Chat Noir that frustrates me. The writers, aiming to highlight Marinette in a (bad executed) "feminist" manner, unjustly render Chat Noir inferior. I emphasize that they are supposed to possess the two most powerful Miraculous and therefore be equal as partners. However, Marinette is consistently given more prominence, whether through her imposed leadership posture and Chat Noir relegated to the role of an assistant, her illogical and excessive power-ups, while Chat Noir remains stagnant. With unjust advantages such as her role as a guardian, her arbitrary choice to forbid the revelation of their secret identities, even though she does it herself by telling Alya. Moreover, to defeat the akumas and villains, Chat Noir's role seems not as indispensable as one might think, even though he is supposed to be Ladybug's equal. She can replace him with any sidekick and it works. In summary, if I continue, I will never stop. The writers deliberately keep Chat Noir in the shadows to make Ladybug shine and refuse to maintain a balance between the two, even though they are supposed to represent creation and destruction. Marinette comes across as overly perfect, almost resembling a "Mary Sue" in my view. She enjoys a flawless family life, with loving baker parents who give her space, along with loyal friends. Leading a double life as a superhero, she is cute and seemingly unaffected by any self-esteem issues, which contrasts with the reality of adolescence where many struggle with body image. Her life appears ideal, free from problems or traumas, except for her unrequited love for Adrien. Even though he hasn't rejected her, he sees her merely as a friend because she has never confessed her feelings to him.

[@dandelions_are_cool]

Honestly, Marinette is such a boring character though. Like, Hawkmoth is more interesting than her, because no, I don't wanna know about a 15-year-old stalking a boy, I wanna know what happened to Hawkmoth's wife.

[@lo-fiaesthetic5382]

Leila is the most interesting if you ask me

[@windyskye5039]

@@lo-fiaesthetic5382 Lila I have mixed feelings about her but she makes the show interesting

[@lo-fiaesthetic5382]

@@windyskye5039 yeah that's the thing, Lila was a character that was created to be hated so the fact that people hate her proves the fact that she was well written

[@windyskye5039]

@@lo-fiaesthetic5382 if she was created to be hated the designers wouldn’t have created her in the first place tbh she’s just a plot point to help hawkmoth and to stop marinette kagami is hated a lot as well like Luka

[@lo-fiaesthetic5382]

@@windyskye5039 that's not how it works-

[@MoSalah17-18]

Gabriel Agreste : *I didn't build this house like a fortress to keep Adrien in, it was to keep Marinette out*

[@Violet-pl8nz]

LMAO TRUE

[@Josephine_de_Beauharnais1763]

Suddenly he isn't a villian anymore. An antagonist, sure, as the antagonist role is filled by the person who directly opposes the protagonist(s), but villians are bad people, and protecting your child from a horrible human is generally seen as a good thing.

[@Violet-pl8nz]

@@Josephine_de_Beauharnais1763 Gabrielle is a hero

[@awhchanelvsf7444]

Pfft But he failed lol cuz she broke into his house multiple times

[@Violet-pl8nz]

@@awhchanelvsf7444 Its that damn bug bitch

[@carlacarrero4975]

The problems isn’t that Thomas doesn’t think stalking is bad the problem is that he uses dark humor without any self awareness and in inappropriate places that’s the real problem

[@ameliasegan2138]

Thank you and I've meet girls like marentte this is me hell

[@floofycupkim1197]

Id say lila is actually a rather interesting person, just because someone lies doesn't mean they're complete garbage, it depends on how you use their writing, there's celestia ludenberg who lied about who she is, she did kill for money but how she played her cards felt realistic, her manipulating hifumi and framing yasuhiro felt logical

[@starflower230]

@@floofycupkim1197 yeah

[@lavaninja1042]

@@floofycupkim1197 puls she is a gambler (the best of the best)so you know it in character.

[@lukajackson2339]

No he literally repeatedly says that she’s perfect. So he doesn’t see it as an actual issue.

[@Meikomai]

I hate how they gave Chloe good writing for once and then threw it all away and made her the same character she was in season one, it’s like there’s no reason to give her an entire redemption arc if she’s gonna have another villain arc, it’s just annoying how there’s so many episodes that contradict each other, make the plot confusing, and feel like filler episodes

[@Remi-wd5kv]

The characters in this show aren’t characters, they are just pawns to try to make Marinette look good and like a good person

[@lyyyn7885]

I hate how she gives a new miraculous to everyone in her class in season 4. I remember when Alia got her Miraculous, that was something special and you can’t wait for her to get it back and fight with Ladybug and Cat Noir again. But now it’s just “oh wow a new miraculous holder, I wonder what power they have” “Oh ok cool”. It’s not special anymore.

[@FirstnameLastname-ek6tz]

Word 😭🤚 bc what do these people even do for the plot now it’s just to impress the fandom

[@erenjaeuwus]

whole ass black friday but with free very special and powerful jewelry- “Use these miraculouses wisely” also mari and fu: *fuck it, give one to each person in your class lmao*

[@cynthiaabadeercruzaider2863]

@@erenjaeuwus This is completely canon in Desperada, where Luka was CLEARLY the best option and yet Ladybug wanted Adrien to have the snake miraculous

[@imdisappointedinyourrecent9603]

I swear they should've just kept the first 7 miraculouses , the same holders and flesh them out lmao

[@angelambrosia6397]

I would've liked it if the miraculous got to their rightful which influenced them to become a team and ultimately defeat hawkmoth. Now it's a sad ground where I could care less who the next miraculous holder is

[@anr.r.52]

If Marinette was a real person I believe a big chunk of us would want her away from us in any way possible

[@eyelove_owlcity]

Yep

[@bavausthad5128]

Yes 🙂✋🏻️

[@stefaniarusso]

@@bavausthad5128 I agree 👍💯👏

[@Lyzeatte]

Would want to smack some sense to her if that'sreal. It's just frustrating to see someone like that irl

[@Acubbatea]

Oh she would always be away from us. *SHE WOULD BE ARRESTED FOR BEING A STALKER*

[@manoluigisupershow1411]

18:47 I love how this makes it look like Marinette made a shitty, self-insert genderbend fanfic of Ladybug and Cat Noir's adventures, read it out loud to everyone in the middle of class with zero prompting and even her nicest teacher found it unbearable when she got to the "introducing Lady Noir" part

[@bloom55cookie]

It would’ve been cool if she was just only interested in Adrian because his dad is a famous fashion designer and she wants connections. It’s bad but at least it would’ve made sense 🤣

[@eyelove_owlcity]

Yeah i agree 😂

[@jazmin1a456]

Lmao

[@MrZakiaashraf]

I agree lol

[@CookiesAreNoice]

Totally would have

[@shuzemeblue2750]

I would have liked if she was only interested because his dad was a famous fashion designer and wanted connections but later gained feelings for him

[@sofig1237]

Honestly, what's more sexist? Having a show with a male protagonist that only occasionally focuses on the female deuteragonist or having a show where the female protagonist becomes a creepy selfish idiot who gets possessive and clingy every time the male deuteragonist hangs out with another girl?

[@windyskye5039]

Second one what’s worse is that Thomas astruc thinks all teenage girls are creepy stalkers fuck Thomas honestly

[@concushroom8168]

@@windyskye5039 seriously. It’s much more damaging to have a female protagonist who’s an obsessive, manipulative, and selfish stalker than to just have a male protagonist. Imagine the little kids watching this.

[@peoplearemyreligion]

Okay but they should put the rating as not for children and watch as she slowly gets more obsessed and she’s the villain after they defeat hawk moth. Adrien moves on and it’s full yandere because I think it would be a good way to make this better

[@windyskye5039]

@@concushroom8168 that’s why I picked the second one honestly couldn’t Thomas put a normal female or a normal male protagonist

[@bgeese1918]

tbh both. she's not just a female deuteragonist, she's also a woman of color

[@aperson3832]

Cat Noir: Saves her multiple times Marinette: -_- Adrien: Offers her a fucking umbrella Marinette: O\\\\O

[@m.a.y.h2298]

My heart broken from how she treats him sometimes QvQ

[@thatson_nameste998]

People in this show fall in love so fast it's annoying at least give them some time before they decide they "love" a character 😐😐

[@lovelylively2252]

really sometimes he even sacrifice for her sometimes and not gonna lie she sometimes abuse car noir

[@PerfectAlibi1]

To be fair, atleast on this point, Cat Noir is just a super hero persona. Adrien is an actual character with a life.

[@rebeccalalrelsaki8282]

i know right

[@yoshie4242]

If you reverse the genders of Adrien and Marionette this looks just that much more creepy.

[@jenmiranda13]

I feel like more girls would relate to Kagami or Chloe. Kagami because: strict parent, forced to be perfect, can't even have friends because other girls envy how close she is to Adrien (even though they weren't that close) Chloe because: she's essentially neglected, she wants to make people proud of her but doesn't know how, etc. It's just sad how they never got what they deserved, which was real character development. Kagami could've been a great artist despite her mother not wanting that. Chloe could've been a great therapist or something. I know her being a therapist is unlikely but hear me out, she could seek for therapy and she might end up wanting to help people like her.

[@empirestate8791]

But that would require giving her a redemption arc (or rather, continuing her Season 2 redemption arc), which is never going to happen as long as Astruc is involved.

[@jenmiranda13]

@@empirestate8791 yep. It needs a reboot. Without Thomas Astruc interfering

[@A10.33]

That would be a interesting future for Chloe

[@RandomGirl785]

Same

[@RandomGirl785]

@@jenmiranda13facts

[@lxlevalxl3991]

She's a joke of a main character, she has no goals, character development, or any types of problems in her life. She apparently wants to be a "fashion designer," but is more focused on stalking Adrien. She hasn't changed one bit, she calls out Chloe and Lila on being "snakes" but goes through Kagami's phone with ZERO permission and pretends to be all innocent and shit. The worst part about this is that she's the MAIN HERO in this show.

[@PossiblyFortunate]

basically mary sue

[@mahamnaeem6355]

I agree with you 100%, but she does have a goal, her goal is to be a fashion designer

[@_Yorkshire_Terrier_]

The writers literally said "Main character development? We don't know her"

[@Zarii321]

@@mahamnaeem6355 yeah but she never practices her goal anymore

[@mahamnaeem6355]

@@Zarii321 oh right...

[@ashleyyyy3366]

Let’s not forget the fact that she only likes adrien for his looks. If you think about it when adrien is chat noir he’s more free and let’s himself act more casual. So to say he acts more like his true self. So if marionette really liked adrien for his personality shouldn’t she like chat noir more than adrien? Because that’s his true self?

[@eli-jah_ayon]

That's why if they want this pairing to progress, it should be 'marichat' that they should be developing. This is only how they will be able to interact with their true selves.

[@wuvxiao]

@@eli-jah_ayon yes omg that is exactly the reason why i really like marichat even though i don't watch the show-

[@kata_rin1112]

@@eli-jah_ayon exactly

[@rinn3958]

@@eli-jah_ayon Exactly

[@heatherh4294]

Lie

[@TheRealMamaBee]

16:36 poor juleka. Shes such a pretty girl and shes also a really good friend. She knew how she feels about being Infront of a camera yet she still signed up to be marinettes model! I love juleka! I would kill for this girl. (Not literally.)

[@TheRealMamaBee]

Also literally anyone else would be a better protagonist and ladybug hell even Chloe would be better than marinette. (My opinion. Luka wouldve been a better ladybug) And Adrian wouldve been a better main character I agree.

[@mellbellsringing]

I got used to the fact that she was pretty poorly written, but in the movie where she literally stalks Adrien across the globe I just... Like it's just a cartoon but it felt so creepy. I was also bothered that she did it under the guise of visiting her clearly loving uncle, who even learned English to speak with her(!) just to leave a city unguarded and follow a boy?

[@IA-hh7sn]

Not to mention that her uncle was so worried for her that he nearly got a heart attack

[@oliviac295]

is seeing him everyday at school not enough?? lol it doesn't make sense

[@jesse3391]

Why wouldn't the uncle learn french tho? Doesn't she live in paris and presumebly speak french?

[@melodychocolate3694]

@@jesse3391 Either a translation mistake or the writers really don’t give a f-k anymore😑

[@cacacoochiecheeseball3391]

@@jesse3391 probably cause ykyk everyone spoke english (but I’m pretty sure In the French version they would have the uncle speak french?)

[@morganqorishchi8181]

As someone who's had a stalker, one who followed me for five years and followed me across state lines: Marinette's behavior is 100% the way my stalker acted. They don't "love" the person they claim to love. They love the idea of owning someone, and they've idealized the person they've targeted to the point of fictionalizing them outright. So if this show is aiming for a villain protagonist, they're doing great. If I was meant to feel anything other than discomfort at the idea of her and Adrien being a couple, then they failed. She's a yandere: vicious and mean if anyone gets near the object of her obsession and only kind to those who don't. Honestly I think every other ship with Adrien is healthier. Everyone else has talked to him and treats him like who he is rather than who they want him to be. Even Chloe and Lila see him more clearly and have had better interactions with him. Like, if you asked me for my top ten ships with Adrien in them, Marinette would not make the list or the honorable mentions, because SHE STALKED HIM SO MUCH SHE HAS HIS SCHEDULE DOWN AND RAN AROUND HIS ROOM CHANTING HIS NAME. That's not love. That's not even twisted love, it's just simply not. He's pretty and she wants a pretty thing. That's it.

[@Goovdluck687]

Oh my God, Im so sorry that you had a stalker. And if Marinette acts like your stalker, then she has a massive problem.

[@Tentegen]

@@Goovdluck687 nah. The Writer has a problem. This is all the Studio's Decision. Ever heard of the show Final Space? Their main character was super manic as hell. The audience complained. Season 2 rolled around and it was *_OBVOUS_* the studio heard the feedback. He was LEAAAGGUES more chill than you could ever expect him to be. The Miraculous Studio doesnt care about feedback. Caring studios wishing to tell a story do.

[@magikforce4069]

@Tentegen I know.I aspire to become a writer so I write characters and stories now.Od talk to my aunt about them for feedback and I’d listen to that and make some changes.And I’m not a writer who went to college and is now in charge of a show or anything.

[@quicksilveryt4000]

What If.. Luka and Adrien.. Someone needs to do something with this

[@sadaf123]

I would ship him Chloe and kagami for sure but I think Marinette is better than Lila because I feel like Lila would use him for popularity

[@Henrietta.Biggle]

I wouldn't say marinette is the worst characters but she's not the best either not one of my favorites but okay my favorites are 'she's just a friend Adrian' 'ladybug obsessed Alya' and 'My dad is mayor Chloe'

[@Silver-Kaitou]

Not just them. Much of the cast are just "Nice with one or two other character traits". Sometimes three.

[@15_heidune72]

Then who is the worst character? Lila?

[@joel1245]

Kinda reminds me of Amy Rose. Her obsession of Sonic is close to Marionette, to the point of delusional, abrasive and deceptive. In few games, Amy had repeatedly tried to obligate Sonic into marrying her, from blackmailing to physically assault him. In Sonic Battle, Amy assume Emerl is a practice robot to help prepare the family life. That is a very unhealthy assumption that she thinks an ancient weapon is a practice baby bot. Amy also grew aggressive and hostile to any female characters who wants to meet Sonic. As she did with Blaze in Sonic Rush, and Cosmo in Sonic X. Speaking of Sonic X, Amy had one point set a trap to bathe Sonic with love potion. A love potion! Let that sink in. In Sonic Chronicles, Amy makes up a fake boyfriend Dexter in order to get Sonic jealous. This is serious when she even lies about dating a fictional person just to make her crush jealous. However, unlike Marionette (i hadn't finished watching the video yet, expect edit), Amy eventually moved on. Every since Infinite and the events that follows through the IDW Comics up to Frontier, Amy had acknowledge her obsessive behavior and tone it down. While she still loves Sonic, she finally understand him better and gives him space. She is starting love Sonic not because of destiny, but because she gets to know Sonic better. Her maturity and character development makes Amy gain redemption for her unhealthy character trait. Edit: Finished the video. I stand corrected, Amy is way better than Marionette!

[@Heidie23]

Facts

[@NikitaClayton-qn7ge]

I still hate Amy tho, like she's still so annoying

[@BridgetMaranje]

Agree, they really mellowed Amy out over the years. She's really gotten some development, seeing as how she went from possessive and scary to actually being laid back and more supportive. Remember how chill she was in Sonic Boom and in Sonic Prime, her alternate versions actually seemed to have to have their heads on their shoulders, and focused on their own problems. Mari creep would never.

[@Freedmoon44]

Tbf there were still traces of a well written Amy before that, in her early conversations with Shadow of all people she was the one that twice over got to talk to him one and one and make him understand what he needs to do if memory serves well, showing that in spite of her down right bad obsession she was still a good person overall and not just an annoyance

[@courageousgrace]

I really don't want to hate Marinette, but that lunatic is the reason why I stopped watching Miraculous. I truly believe Adrian should be the main character, he's way more interesting and complex, and in all just a better character. This show also did Chloe dirty, I'm not a Chloe fan but I really did want her to get redeemed. :(

[@frankieverona5353]

chloe? Also i totally agree

[@unavailablemixi]

Chloe was getting a great character development. But apparently, the show really needs a mean girl or something.

[@iri783]

@@unavailablemixi they really just made her an amazing character with amazing character development, but they threw all that away because the show apparently needed an evil girl- like besties please you could have left Chloe alone and explored Lila more… the actual person actively on Hawkmoth’s side and works for him? She 100% could have been explored more, why she lies so much, why she relies on emotional manipulation, ect, but no. chloe’s character development had to be the one that suffered haha that was a long rant

[@margarete5920]

@@iri783 IKR like, they watched S1 again then remember Chloe supposed to be the villain more so yeah, forget S2 and S3, we went back to zero episode and make her the bad guy and put just this random girl who just appeared for 1 EPISODE and make her the new Queen Bee

[@EnnaHimura]

2:I agree i think that adrien should be the main character and plag is more interesting then tikki 3:i love chloe so much but because she is such an amazing character and i agree she should be redeemed

[@cinnabon6793]

Marinette is basically a yandere without the killing edit oh my gosh I didn't expect to get this much likes thank you 😁

[@ArtisticAlly123]

She does pretty bad stuff tho like she tried to ruin Kagami’s dress and shoes just cause she was going on vacation with Adrien

[@otakutoongamer5616]

For Now....

[@cinnabon6793]

@@otakutoongamer5616 true we never know how obsessive she can be

[@summer3916]

@@cinnabon6793 Take away the fact that she's the main character and she's supposed to be a hero and I'm sure she'd go as far as to start killing.

[@cinnabon6793]

@@summer3916 no you don't even have to take away the hero just take away that it's a kid's show

[@chemtable]

Marinette genuinely makes me so uncomftrable from the situations she gets herself into, and the INSANE AMOUNT of second hand embarrassment i've expirienced from her 💀

[@hardcorefurinafan]

Love ur pfp

[@bonniethemurder6928]

Thats ture I stop watching it after season 1.

[@rajaytaylor4558]

Your Not wrong I have to resist the need to cringe when I watch marinette embarrass herself and get herself into these awkward situations

[@annakirby5785]

Marinette got really annoying rude and cocky in the reflekdoll episode

[@rajaytaylor4558]

I know right and it doesn't help that she was being rude and obnoxious to Mr bug

[@starlaixystar]

Chloe is better person than Marinette. At least Chloe is honest and she doesn't hide who she is. Marinette on the other hand is manipulative and evil and she is enough evil to think that she is a good person.

[@ariadnaramirez9685]

At the beginning, i thought for sure that marinette would slowly start to like cat noir and become friends as ladybug and slowly stop liking adrien.. then it would be lkke she fell in love with adrien's true personality. Instead she basically hates cat noir and i just cannot root for her in any way. Like adrien needs a restraining order against her bc mari is just not it.

[@-pink3-756]

True I didn’t like that marinette never accepted cat noir and she rejected the person she legit stalked so she didn’t rly like him she liked his image I just thought it was weird.

[@ariadnaramirez9685]

@@-pink3-756 exactly! Like cat noir as her partner has saved her and sacrificed himself for her so many times! And sure he is flirtatious and sometimes reckless, he’s not perfect.. and it’s fine if she doesn’t like him romantically but it barely seems like she even appreciates him. I feel so bad for him.

[@MoSalah17-18]

Adrien treats Marinette with respect and dignity , meanwhile marishit throws cat noir in the trash for just making jokes.

[@sandyscheeks9210]

@@-pink3-756 I agree with you.

[@tidepodpadthai2633]

You know it's bad when youtube comments and fanfucs have better writing than the actual writer of the show

[@miracles4219]

Tikki says that marinette is the best holder she's ever had. How bad were the other ladybugs????

[@eyelove_owlcity]

That's what i wanna know too

[@MrZakiaashraf]

Were the other ladybugs Hitler or something??!!??!!??!!?!!

[@baconboiii67]

I honestly feel bad for Tikki, she has to deal with an obsessive psycho

[@michaelgillespie9112]

As a person she's pretty bad, but she does a pretty good job as Ladybug when she's not distracted.

[@Ισαβέλα-ψ7τ]

@@michaelgillespie9112 no. as ladybug she is extremely cocky most of the time and she also uses her power for selfish reasons. chat blanc is an example, volpina, the mime episode, timebreaker

[@thewitchwannabe5116]

What really bothers me, is that everyone acts like marinette is the greatest person ever. Everyone idolizes her, when she’s actually so awful.

[@lightyagami4535]

@gamers station They also sometimes make her this edgy girl that kills people and they still idolize her and apparently Gacha Adrien is turned on by that and I’m like “WTF?! You just made her even worse!”

[@fizzysooda4772]

My younger sister who watches the show loves her I don’t think kids really dig that deep into stuff so they don’t care about it :/

[@LimiLemonade]

@gamers station I've seen some gacha videos of her and they make her the best person alive *and make her best friend her enemy* *wtf*

[@jwinnard]

@gamers station my friend has a Gacha channel based on the most popular fandoms of Gacha And rn it’s mlb We both hate mlb, we talk about how problematic and dumb it is all the time And watching the episodes, their so repetitive, all episodes have the same plot, and the characters are so stereotypical and generally weird Literally the only thing I like about the show is the character designs

[@jwinnard]

@꧁Autumn_Leaf꧂ I agree with your last comment about how it’s things like that, that make the Gacha community worse And Marinette’s character like, they’ve tried to make her so perfect and loveable But like, no it didn’t work at all in my opinion

[@fatiesc_]

if marinette is a true friend then i don't want true friends

[@Im-at-yo-door]

Frfr

[@meimeipow2099]

I hated the fact the she used her parents saved funds to her advantage, for a trip to China/Shanghai. Just because Adrian was in Shanghai, I am so upset about this she stole from her parents after all the things they have done for her. Very disappointing.

[@MYCLEM4T1S]

wait really? thats disgusting she could've at least asked and then told them she would return it

[@kongliza9887]

She didn’t go to Shanghai for her uncle’s birthday, she went there for Adrien…I wonder what happens if her uncle found out

[@xtreemez6972]

@@violet3907 don't feel bad for gabriel.

[@thatsyriana5110]

EXACTLY!

[@thatsyriana5110]

@triforian king EXACTLY

[@bruz5026]

Adrien's father is the villain, he can literally destroy all Paris with his cataclysm, his backstory with his mother is interesting,... I can name so much more things at why Adrien would be a better protagonist than Marinette but at this point it would be 2022

[@vanaa2130]

He's also genuinely nice when it would make more sense given his father's behaviour and the fact he lost his mom, has been socially isolated, etc , that's he would end up like the Felix character but he's a cinnamon role and deserves every good thing.🥺 He should be the focus🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺

[@Ashley-ro4xz]

Frrrrrr. I always wondered why the kid was my favorite character. But it’s this. And the fact that he gets to be himself when he’s Cat Noir. There’s so much to his character that we know about and so much depth. There’s something going against him while on the other hand marinette has everything going for her and she acts very very strange.

[@yumeniya]

Marinette is a better protagonist because she's more human like and flawed because people have flaws and I don't get how her behavior is bad, of course teenage girls stalk their crushes, at least it was normal when i was in school (i'm 25 now haha)

[@匚尺丂乇-k3v]

@@yumeniya that ain't normal Sis who told you that was a normal thing to do?

[@weebyanseil4584]

@@yumeniya so u actually steal ur crushes phones , prepare presents for that person's 37 gifts ,follow that person to another country , basically memorize their schedule .that is not love that is obsession .

[@badcookie5755]

I feel like the creator didn't know how to write teenage girls as anything other than obsessive. Most of the male characters are allowed to have personalities but somehow all the teenage girls are obsessed with something to the point that it makes it their main character trait. Obsessed with journalism, adrien, skating, serving chloe, etc. Which is sad because some of these characters have a lot of potential but they feel like just a bunch of stiff stereotypes than actual personalities.

[@AtesSu2006.]

In fact, journalism makes a lot of sense for a personality.

[@egbert-3]

And the fact that thomas asstruck calls them "independent woman girl boss yass slay" which is literally the whole opposite of that

[@cyberkkult]

Ehh I wouldn’t say the male characters have any personality outside of adrien/cat noir and luka. I mean nino literally just exists to be what? Alyas boyfriend? And Marinettes other male classmates are just so bland like the sporty guy and the calculator smart dude and other forgettable characters lmfao. But yeah I agree, marinettes supposed to be a role model and writing her like a pathetic stalker at times isn’t “cute” or quirky at all. Seriously man I wish she was more mature like say season 1 marinette, because holy shit she was way better back then compared to now. It felt like she had an actual personality back then and her crush on adrien was a little more normal lol (tho she still did weird hypocritical shit like in volpina and roger cop)

[@tidepodpadthai2633]

@@cyberkkult yeah, and luka literally just exists to create a love square between him, marinette, adrien and kagami, and just to create drama over who marinette will choose. At least kagami has a personality outside being someone for adrien to date

[@Mary-gs3md]

true this show is so sexist on so many levels

[@jackphoto8816]

The fact people excuse her behavior by just saying “She’s only 14! 14 year olds get obsessed with their crush.” Yes they do, I’ll admit but breaking into their house? Stealing their phone? Trying to ruin every relationship with any girl who comes near him? Kissing figures of him? Manipulating him?Is that what y’all did because if so you need jail time. No 14 year old should be doing this.

[@doctordyrroth]

She does do all that, and she face consequences for most of them, the one's she doesn't are the ones she make up for herself. Breaking into his house, lead to her secret identity being her out which caused her death and almost the end of the world Stealing his phone, resolved the problem, I would say it deserves a little consequence but whatever Ruining relationships with other girls, faced consequences for it(Lila), learned and stopped it(Kagami and the development of this can be seen when she thinks that Zoe is in love with Adrien) Kissing figures of him, ended up getting really embarrassed when Adrien was pranking her Manipulating him. When did she manipulate him? Serious question

[@Ashen.Malipo]

​@@doctordyrrothstill doesn't change the fact that she did it, and she will and would do it again if it means getting closer to Adrien. Just because she faced the consequences of her actions doesn't justify her obsessive behavior and it also doesn't stop her from doing it again. Her obsession with Adrien has gotten overly unhealthy and should stop

[@doctordyrroth]

@@Ashen.Malipo It did, and before it did she tried to stop it multiple times by not being in love with him which only ended up making things worse. And if you've watched season 5, you would know that she herself recognizes her behavior caused by her love by Adrien wasn't good whatsoever

[@CharlaTheslay]

@@doctordyrrothyou do realise this video was made prior to season 5?

[@doctordyrroth]

@@CharlaTheslay but the comment wasn't

[@winning5366]

in reflekdoll she was pissed bc chat noir is better at lucky charm-ing

[@lesercraft]

Tf

[@miyyaa_]

Misterbug said like "Maybe if i use my lucky charm i will get a mirror" and ladynoire said lucky charm didnt give you anything you want but then misterbug use his lucky charm and then got a mirror and ladynoire got pissed off

[@lesercraft]

@@miyyaa_ she didn't get mad or aggressive she just said "beginners luck" witch is not true is it really that bad...srly

[@msk-qp6fn]

Honestly i thought that part was just lighthearted jealousy tho 🤷‍♀️

[@clzeoeeeee_]

She isn't meant to be a perfect character at the start but her being obsessive about Adrien is just weird and creepy

[@dakuten7883]

She's so cowardly that she hasn't even tried shooting her shot with Adrien and yet she's still fending off people who are flirting with him.

[@3ver1asting_]

yeah, like GIRL YOU WANT HIM, GO TALK TO HIM. If you're not gonna talk to him then let another girl be with him.

[@cheese4434]

Never understood that. She actively avoids trying to shoot her shot but then gets jealous and defensive for Adrien when someone shows interest in him or ask him out

[@Hektols]

And when Adrien tries to find out if she likes him she blatanty lies to him.

[@3ver1asting_]

@@cheese4434 Yeah, ik that the writer is gonna make them fall in love and have the perfect relationship in the end of the show, but tbh if it was actually real life, then Marinette would be extremely obsessive and overprotective of adrien, not letting any girl come in contact with him.

[@lilymiau4166]

YASSS is like, she didn't even tried talking to him (correctly) but she is scarying girls away just to gain time until she's as brave as Lila or Kagami, pretty sad, not even Chloe did that to her.

[@malakasaad8561]

the worst part is that marinette is treated like this perfect likable angel not only by the show characters but like the fandom. once adrien friendzones her because he literally talked to her like once in his life because she can't get a straight word out, he's suddenly a monster and omg why can't he see his love for her, like forcing someone to like another person is seriously not okay?? but once ladybug rejects cat noir or says that she wont give him a chance or we must protect our identities blabber she gets nothing but praise. like pick a side?

[@savstinks6847]

The fact that the fandom thinks that makes this WAYYY worse, its actual proof that the creator taught children that its #cute and #quirky even tho she literally stalked him?? Like if the ship isnt condoned by the creator then this would just be another day in a fandom but instead its something worse

[@malakasaad8561]

@@savstinks6847 exactly!! they're really going to make her a role model for children like this? at this point her whole personality as marinette is stalking adrien and being a mary sue and people praise her for that? like how do i knock sense into your head bruh

[@savstinks6847]

@@malakasaad8561 fr its so concerning

[@fowo_90]

And I bet that once Marinette finds out Adrien is chat noir, she is immediately gonna start giving chat noir attention because his so called "crush" was the one she rejected so many times to the point she said she won't need him anymore. Istfg, If she ever fucking says that "oMg i hAvE bEeN rEjEcTiNg mY cRuSh aLl tHiS tImE" I'm gonna Fucking throw her to the dustbin, where she actually belongs, I mean like what the fucking hell did you expect when you kept playing with some guy you don't even know unless its behind the mask's feelings all because he gives you Flowers. JUST TAKE THE FLOWERS.. DAMN-- I don't care if it is love or not, just accept the fucking flower instead of Saying "oh my god fuck off chat noir we don't need your pathetic flowers cause we aren't supposed to know each other's personal life even though i stalk this amazing guy and break into his house and start sniffing his things to the point i might sniff his shit one day because that totally makes sense so i won't accept your flower even as a friend" like SHUT UP.

[@malakasaad8561]

@@fowo_90 I KNOW RIGHT

[@Idontreallyknow2345]

Everyone hated chloe kagami and lila for loving adrien because they ain't main characters Now imagine the hate for marinette when she would stalk adrien and everyone would despise her we would want the main character to love adrien

[@topgame2645]

Well, naturally, they like the main characters more, and they want the main characters to be together) and + Chloe and Leela were shown from the very beginning as Marinette’s rivals, but we didn’t know Kagami well yet.

[@mercuricchow]

Marinette is not a likable character. She's the typical over-powered hero, who everyone is supposed to admire, but literally her only personality is her crush. Quirky, creepy, overrated.

[@3rebella]

Word. Exactly what i've been thinking this entire time.

[@suella7505]

Mary sue (and the fact that I have a character named Marie Sue before I even knew the term 'Mary sue' existed lol)

[@roxycempron5781]

No, she's competent enough to last four seasons as an identity-undisclosed superpowered crimefighter without help from most should-be competent authorities. If her civilian life wasn't focused on high school friends and her crush on a famous model, instead being about helping her parents do business, focusing on her growth as a designer and hanging out with friends for activities that have nothing related to her immediate world, I think she would be much better as a character. And the Miraculous lore should have more focus, her getting taught how to do things kwami-related and the history of Miraculouses in the world. If this show was progressive, Hawk Moth wouldn't last a season and she'd quickly abandon her crush on Adrien. Luka was a better option. I meant that last point objectively, the stupid romance arcs drove me out of watching the show. Did not mean to offend MarinetteXAdrien shippers, or other shippers whose support is on a pairing involving those two.

[@salty3093]

@@suella7505 not a mary sue, as she is reliant on her friends to solve problems, she isn't op, unless she uses all the miraculous but it's explained that she cannot do it alone

[@weebyanseil4584]

@@salty3093 she is a marysue . She can use all the miraculouses perfectly with the first try , she can fight very properly like catnoir tho she has no training whatsoever . She is a designer and is a competent leader. She was able to defeat Adrien in fencing with the first try . She is smart and sharp can adapt to situations easily , has a good athletic spirit . She is also a very good gamer . Ye she does use her friends for help as a hero but mostly speaking she is competent enough to do almost anything . That is a marysue in my point of view .

[@theddae]

This is why people in the fandom like to rewrite the show.

[@DioDeezBrando]

You're entire community re writing your show should be a sign that you're doing something wrong. Your fans are literally going "this is so trash that I'll spend hours re-writing it to my own image"

[@rhearipleysdildo7376]

Like I have seen better storylines than the show

[@youshouldknowmyname8770]

Marrienete = bad protag

[@leen4356]

That's so true omg I enjoy reading comics of it rewritten more than the actual show

[@galacticpusheen8694]

I bet I can write it a lot better lmao

[@Marta_2025]

You actually changed my entire mind about Marinette now. Never realized how MUCH of a selfish jerk she actually is.

[@rseinoaden3010]

:O tbhk!

[@abdullahfauzi6907]

Shut up dude

[@Scary_Mask_Tomboy]

Even to our poor kitty, how dare she get all the credit as well, i'd root to Chat always like i'v literally always done

[@honey-w8g]

What's even more funnier is how naive the people that likes her i mean her love for adrien is seriously getting out of hand

[@dusker_s]

same first i think shes a cool character then thinking she isn't that good then thinking shes a pretty bad written or something character

[@calelkestifer3570]

I'm not saying boys are better than girls, but I do actually 100% believe that Adrien is by far the more interesting character and he gets cut out of so much that he should have been central to that I unabashedly will die on the hill that he should have been the main character from the getgo.

[@peach_tea0]

Ok but like seeing Marinette being annoying and creepy every episode makes me miss the original anime idea so much... the theater movie better not make her as awful as she is in the show or I'm gonna die of cringe.

[@qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm3093]

Would she have been better in anime?

[@servant8056]

like at least she wouldn't be a mary sue and stalker (I hope-)

[@qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm3093]

@@servant8056 Really? why?

[@servant8056]

@@qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm3093 I said hope because I'm not sure all I know is their personalities were different in the anime at first until it was all changed

[@melodychocolate3694]

I loved the original idea they had (the anime version,) I mean at least Bridget was willing to try to get Felix to fall for her without getting all shy, she actually made an effort to talk to him, and he ignored her, on the other hand Marinette has no excuse for not being able to have at least, at the very least a normal regular conversation with Adrien without making it look like she doesn’t see him as a friend, the story would be 10x better if they were good friends…🥲

[@okoswiata5850]

As much as I like this series, I can see that Marinette is such a terrible character. She's such a stalker and her female friends just support her stalking activities. Adrien should be the primary protagonist. That doesn't mean our boy is flawless. But he is far better character to be a role model for children who watch this show than Marinette ever be. Marinette is problematic indeed. (Well, I don't mean S4, it's just a mess. Adrien is indeed daddy's boy from S1-3 but he is better than some creepy stalker)

[@artvulture456]

Poor Adrien, pretty much everyone in the city is much more focused on Ladybug even though he put in equal work

[@okoswiata5850]

@@artvulture456 yeaahh.. for real tho. The citizens only saw what Ladybug did. It's just mind boggling the writers made it that way. Chat pretty much contributed to the fight against the akumas and amoks.

[@chaton897]

Now adrien is pretty much childish tbh. He literally destroyed a part of the city (ik just a sort of big brick wall) but still he had no reason for that other than him being jealous that he cant play superhero anymore.

[@okoswiata5850]

@@chaton897 yep, the writers pretty much turned him into that.

[@summeri3]

season 1 was cute then it went downhill

[@extremelybored7895]

Imagine if Marinette evolves into a villain, that would make sense and it would actually be a pretty good twist

[@0nikolaigogol0]

I'd like to see Marinette as a villain, she'd make a good one imo

[@aphrodite4419]

Sadly Thomas does not seem to be going in that direction, as he is incredibly inept as a writer. With the way things are going now, Chloe is probably going to become a major threat or something

[@johngonzalez2495]

She has the right elements to be a yandere archetype villain lol

[@monaalona4744]

If they did do that I would MAYBE start watching the show again but Thomas would never do something like that unless he was replaced

[@Pinkrevenge101]

Maybe someone can write an au like that

[@sanjanaakotyada4753]

Mari doesn't like Adrian, she's just infatuated with him.

[@freishavocadoo7399]

unpopular opinion: Marinette is a terribly written character, not only are her downsides but the fact she is inconsistently written. Her persona as ladybug towards Adrien if ever they were alone or even accompanying him during usual dangers, she would be calm and collective without her usual frantic perks. then later in a few minutes to the episode, she'd jump all over and be madly in love with adrien. She is irritatingly inconsistent at some point. I rlly cant properly explain it but if you notice closely, even if she isn't in the ladybug form, she can talk to Adrien calmly without being jumpy then later on she'd go brrrr with high pitch voice as if they didn't talked earlier -_-. Edit: Oh lawd thnk u for 1k o~o

[@yourgrandma010]

OMG I AGREE SO MUCH-

[@konnerPENIDS]

I hate you.

[@freishavocadoo7399]

@@konnerPENIDS LOL

[@marygraceoyangorin8918]

@@freishavocadoo7399 He/She/They hate you because you said your opinion.

[@freishavocadoo7399]

@@marygraceoyangorin8918 ok and?

[@elfran2002]

I personally think if Mari was a male character, everybody will hate her actions.

[@Pandaluvsretrothings]

I completely agree and the show would be pulled off eventually

[@magikforce4069]

A lot of female characters would be hated if they were males

[@Etherealdjinn]

I mean whether boy or girl, Marinette will be hated because of her actions. The difference is that the network hasn’t pull the show off because she’s a girl and they make stalking ‘cute and quirky’

[@idkmaya2396]

agree

[@Etherealdjinn]

@Prescott, Nathan Because not only does he get neglected in the show as the other main character, but Adrien is also abused badly as himself and Chat. Mentally, Emotionally and even physically when Ladybug throws him constantly. So no, we’re not hating on him. A bit of flirting is nothing compared to full blown stalking, making presents up till his 30-something birthday and having his schedule for the next three years.

[@veloin]

Marienette is not in love in adrien, she’s obsessed

[@paigeluvscoke]

Obsessively in love to the point she went to a whole nother country Just to be with adrien

[@danielaalfaro386]

And that my dear, is what we call obsessive love disorder.✌️😃

[@Kyraaa7]

Marienette and Adrian are literally like James and Lily and snape from hp Here kagami or Chloe are James Adrian is Lily And marienette is Snape: they both think they are in love with the other person but they’re just obsessed with them Like if Adrian ends up with kagami or Chloe (which I know is not gonna happen cause ms Marienette is a Mary Sue) Marienette will go full snape mood

[@cosmicvictory7852]

She can’t really speak too adrien cause she’s so annoyinginly clumsy around him, so I would say it’s mostly physical attraction

[@akitty3724]

She's the sky mod of adrien

[@Crinjester]

We all know if cat noir was the lead while Marinette was the secondary everyone would despise her 😂

[@lifesucks1198]

At this point,Lila is the only person who knows that Marinette isnt a good person and that shes just obsessive and a stalker.

[@dubu9840]

yeah that's why I kind of like Lila, she's actually a good-written villainess

[@doge2519]

@@dubu9840 yes, I would love if mlb was more targeted to tweens and teens, and where Lila is the protagonist, that would be so good

[@IwatchDogandCatsFight.]

She's the best highschool villain

[@ltsmay2459]

Yea and in some episode chloe know too

[@paulnuuyoma1770]

So true, my brother hates Lila though

[@kittyself]

its sad that chloe isnt ever allowed to actually change because the show needs that "mean girl" stereotype and shes the one forced to fill it

[@soaringraven0]

@@EReee-sd5pf and Lila fits that perfectly. Chloe was improving than for some reason regressed in S3

[@ダーリン-p5s]

@@EReee-sd5pf the thing is you can keep writing antagonists, u cant just be stuck with 1 mean girl all the time. Even in the movie mean girls, someone has to eventually replace Regina George from the queen bee throne because realistically speaking, people change, its just bad writing if ur forcing a character to fill the mean girl trope for no reason. Chloe isnt a Junko Enoshima type of villain, shes a broken person who has an unhealthy habit of dragging people down, shes a redeemable character who can take advantage of her mean girl experience for the sake of doing good

[@Made_for_oliverwood]

yes and adding onto that. Thomas Astruc full on HATES her and refuses to give her character development

[@Flame-rp6yq]

Lila: Then bish what am I? A _ROACH?_

[@livywithane]

Yeah

[@TitanXecutor]

I will be honest. She starts off alright. I actually liked her. Nothing terrible, but she does get worse as time goes on. There were times where I wished someone would call 911 on her Edit: Also wow. This got more likes than I thought. Thank you all very much

[@quietopinion9637]

Maybe blame the writing not her?

[@peri8513]

Yes , she was just a stupid random high schooler but step by step she's literally having a HUGE obsession with Adrien. She's disrespecting his privacy , using her powers to personal , dumb things and pretends like he is belong to herself or something. At this point this is not even stupid high school crush. This is not healthy. She doesn't see even Chat Noir's sacrifitions just for a guy who gave her an fucking umbrella 🕳👩🏻‍🦯 Yes , Adrien is a nice dude but this is too much and she started thinking "their future " wtf girl ? All we are stupid teenagers but we don't act like that when we see our crushes. Just chill 💀💀

[@imp360]

@@quietopinion9637 what does that even mean? Marinette's not a real person so it's not really possible to blame "her". criticism of a character is ultimately criticism of the writing because that is what makes the character.

[@boredperson1185]

She is trying to be over cat noar

[@TitanXecutor]

@@boredperson1185 I just wanna see one time cat scoring his own victory, and NOT using Ladybug's powers

[@yupiix127.x3]

10:40 I don’t get why is she so obsessed with him, like bro, he just gave you an umbrella, it’s not that deep.

[@topgame2645]

Have you ever heard of love at first sight?

[@yupiix127.x3]

@@topgame2645 I don’t believe in that

[@topgame2645]

@@yupiix127.x3 I advise you to believe it, and if you don’t believe it, then it’s easier to say that Marinette fell in love with Adrien’s openness and frankness.

[@plushiesmomma]

like this all stocking adrien started when he gave her a umbrella like why...

[@Renko_zafire]

​@@topgame2645 Before Adrien give the umbrella to Marinette she thinks that he is annoying (I think)

[@Nurain-tv9qe]

i literally hated the part where in that one episode, Marinette looked through Kagami’s phone that KAGAMI TRUSTED HER WITH JUST TO TAKE A PICTURE. but what did she do? she disrespected Kagami’s privacy and snooped through her phone bc Marinette thought that Kagami was texting aDriEN or sum. Like bruh, hes not yours. RESPECT THE GIRL’S PRIVACY WOULD YA-

[@morganqorishchi8181]

Funny how if a guy is worried his girlfriend might be speaking to another boy, we call that abusive, but when it's a girl worried her crush might be speaking to another girl, we're supposed to find it cute. In reality, not only was Marinette violating Kagami's privacy, she's doing what abusers do: trying to isolate Adrien from his friends. That's such a common abuser tactic it's literally in my psychology textbook.

[@magikforce4069]

Morgan,I know.I’ve been wanting to study psychology and I have tried to do some work on the abuser things.Isolation is a form of abuse(in my opinion anyway)along with boundary disregarding.Marinette abuses Adrien nonstop but a bunch of people OTP it.Like you ship this?You ship a creepy abusive stalker with a nice,sweeet guy?Why?

[@annaleemalone5161]

MARINETTE BEING A STALKER IS ENOUGH GURL SHE'S A PHYSOPATH like if you agree

[@zoilaflores4758]

One of the reasons mari is Lowkey bad

[@emply932]

Honestly, at this point: Anyone of her classmates would make a better protagonist than 𝗵𝗲𝗿.

[@tikkilover4890]

Or Kagami or Luka OR MAYBE EVEN FELIX I'm sorry for the Felix part, I just think he'd be an interesting protag. Plus we'd get some of his backstory that way

[@wintercold4045]

I would like to see Juleka as a MC. I think it would be a great outcome. 🙂

[@magikforce4069]

Kagami,Chloe,and Lila and also Adrien.They’d be interesting protagonists

[@FandomFanaticFreak]

@@tikkilover4890 In the original 2D Animated Miraculous Ladybug Felix was the main character

[@-ghostwithglasses9724]

bro Lila can be so much better then her (in my opinion)

[@kata_rin1112]

Can we talk about the fact that Marinette knows Adrien’ schedule for the next three years and, when the trip to Shanghai came up, she told a bunch of lies to her ENTIRE family and emotionally manipulated them just to be with Adrien? 🙂

[@nuage6230]

And don't forget that she was Luka's boyfriend yet she cheated on him and went to the Shanghai trip so she could stalk Adrien 🙂

[@Imcookedfr]

@@nuage6230 WAIT WHAT

[@chearrstine_]

@@nuage6230 WHAT, ON WHAT SEASON IS THIS? i haven't finish the season 3 and ofc i haven't watch any of the season 4

[@nuage6230]

@@chearrstine_ it was a special, i don't remember the season though

[@margarete5920]

@@chearrstine_ it's the movie one. the one after the trip to new york. i think it's called miraculous world