The Unbalanced "Weapon Triangle" of Advance Wars PvP

Experimenting with a more video-essay style strategy guide. I hope you guys like it!
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[@Koppu1doragon]

Play as eagle and spam tanks knowing your opponent will be spamming anti-air.

[@The_Somewhere_Monarch]

Oh yeah this is big brain time

[@nameplease8811]

That happened to me on awbw one time

[@Excelblem]

unironically a good idea just because tanks are so good

[@astralguardian5930]

I mean it is least expected, as the foe will build an anti air or two just because they always expect an Eagle player to get some battle copters, so surprising them with Tanks is a viable strat.

[@JokinAround]

Also a viable strat is to spam Bcopters as jess just to for destroy the enemy AA with your tanks.

[@profchaos91]

I feel like this was what Excelblem was supposed to do before his first run at FE became a memerun. He's great at memes, but these videos are also really interesting, so i guess he should "balance his weapon triangle" with nice lives, funny short videos and more serious/informative videos

[@tricky2795]

What meme run? Excelblem is the best FE strategist ever

[@profchaos91]

@@tricky2795 blietzkrieg strategy in a medieval setting... Not even an evil god-dragon could stand a chance against sekai ichi strategy!

[@cringekid3993]

@@KFP_ES but he did the analysis way before the memes

[@ElkaPME]

Do note, copters actually hard counter indirects, especially against rockets as being able to sneak past through terrain can absolutely demolish their perfromance Anti air can also counter bombers when ambushing them

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

However, you can counter them just as easily with a well-placed, or well-used, Recon.

[@3XHS]

@@MrJinglejanglejingle except with terrain and/or effective infantry blocking.

[@7coloredalice]

Bombers can actually almost destroy an anti-air if the bomber gets first strike so watch where you leave it. Bopters don't have that luxury.

[@junkmail2223]

if your opponent is buying rockets, you've either just won the game or you were already lost. same thing goes with bombers

[@Mikethekappa299]

Sensei: Instructions unclear, built only battlecopters and mechs

[@lancelindlelee7256]

If it works, it works. Mechs are extremely cost effective against tanks and AAir anyway.

[@Utsuhoagie]

@@lancelindlelee7256 Except not really, until he really masses them and has good terrain for them to sit on. Otherwise, mechs are too slow to reach the fronts in time, and as such risk getting attacked first

[@bongcloudopening5404]

@@Utsuhoagie sensei does have good air transports and not to mention he'll just spam fodder using his co power to protect the mechs

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

@@bongcloudopening5404 In addition, if he gets his SCOP up, that's usually putting some mechs on the front lines in addition to whatever was already there.

[@Adoochi]

Hi, just some constructive criticism/tips: 1) I'd recommend lower the vocal audio and raising the music volume. Doing so should help cover up any background noise on the vocal track while also making the pauses between lines flow a bit more naturally. It's important to not go overboard with this though; your voice needs to be clear over the music, as that's the core content of the video. On a side note, I've heard of people recording their voice while under a comforter to provide a better audio environment. Haven't tried this myself, but it might be worth trying out. 2) Recording a bunch of smaller takes is better than recording only one or two large takes. This way if you flub a line or want to go back and change something later in production it's much easier to rerecord. How short you make them is ultimately up to you. I'd also recommend doing each take a couple of times, giving you more options in the editing process. Leaving a little dead audio (ie: leaving the recording running without speaking) at the beginning can ensure the line is recorded properly, while leaving some at the end can help with editing the lines together. A good audio environment will especially help here. Remember to ensure the dead audio isn't able to be heard in the video, even if you're giving a pause between line for the sake of good flow. 3) The visual part of a video essay should serve to aid the voice track, not the other way around. This is the part I think you've got down the best, for sure. The visuals are generally pretty clear and help to reinforce what you're saying, but it's a little stale. Black text on a mostly white background can also be a bit hard on the eyes if it's used excessively. Having some gameplay footage in the background that serves to illustrate the point you're making can help keep the viewer engaged. When it's time to bring out the Power Point slides (such as at 1:39), simply blur the footage slowly, then fade in the information. Changing out the footage can be done either abruptly while the viewer is focusing on it (if it's meant to continue the current topic) or done subtly while it's blurred and you're nearing the end of your current topic (to transition into the next topic). Do note that this is merely how I would do it. Experiment and find what works for you and your style. 4) Endslates should generally only be about 10 to 15 seconds long, unless you specifically need to use it for something (saying something to viewer, for example). Not as much to say about it as the other points. 5) On a final note, Practice! It's the only way you're going to get better at it. Taking breaks, as well as making videos on topics that interest you (such as here), is a good way to keep yourself motivated and avoid burnout. I think you definitely have a lot of potential to make some good long form content. thanks for coming to my tedtalk im going to bed

[@viviblue7277]

That would make it so much more pedestrian and normal strong disagree.

[@thehuffpuff10]

Will keep this advice in mind if I ever start my YT channel.

[@queengames8421]

This was actually a pretty interesting video. I've never thought much about the balancing of Advance Wars, and I felt like this did a good job at explaining it despite having little experience with it.

[@nameplease8811]

Little experience? What are you talking about

[@queengames8421]

@@nameplease8811 Typo, should have said "me having little experience". I was trying to say that I didn't have much experience with Advance Wars pvp before, yet I was still able to follow the concepts presented in the video.

[@nameplease8811]

@@queengames8421 it’s alright

[@Noahs_Chair]

This bring me back to your first Fe video, the one that wasn't a shitpost. I hope you will be able to do more like these

[@just-mees]

Jokes on you I never played pvp and am using this guide to be able to beat the game

[@HanakkoLove]

In the game you just spam bombers and 1 or 2 fighters 😎

[@jaxpot7775]

@@HanakkoLove And people spam POWER OF MONEY!!!!

[@butteredsalmonella]

@@HanakkoLove To think about it, the best way to cheese the final mission of AW2, you just need to build 2 Bombers.

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

Well Tank Spamming is also how you win most maps in the games too.

[@alphamarigi]

@@HanakkoLove doesn't work against sturm

[@hansgretl1787]

Next up: The "Bomber, Fighter and Missile triangle" Yeah, this game isn't balanced all that well.

[@butteredsalmonella]

People don't even deploy Missiles, they deploy Anti-Airs in Bulk.

[@megarotom1590]

@@butteredsalmonella I mean they are pretty useful in Days of Ruin since they upped the range while keeping damage untouched.

[@megarotom1590]

it's more like bombers, fighters, and anti-air. Bombers can raid anti-air to get rid of one easily per bomber and a fighter will easily outmaneuver a bomber and the bomber can't fight back while an anti-air will destroy fighters which can't strike back

[@hansgretl1787]

@@megarotom1590 I was meme-ing, come on. I know how crappy Missiles are.

[@megarotom1590]

@@hansgretl1787 to be fair, days of ruin missiles are better and there are some maps where missiles are nice.

[@Quicksilvir]

Excellent guide, its worth mentioning that artillery, rockets, and mechs alter this triangle slightly more towards the battle copter, but that only applies so long as you are able to maintain battlefield control. Since tanks are the #1 method of achieving said control, the triangle often ends up skewed back to tanks.

[@HanakkoLove]

Very good video! I liked your use of league maps as they are the most competitively balanced maps. I would like to see more comparison of COs as well such as how Jess operates in T4 in regards of Triangle :).

[@darklordliam]

“Battle Copters are risky and limited.” Sensei: “Are you sure about that?”

[@RanEncounter]

Well Sensei is OP anyway.

[@a-s-greig]

Mechs mechs mechs mechs mechs mechs mechs...

[@MarlowPreston]

I think more episodes down the line will be pretty interesting.

[@wikipedia8193]

5:18 Excelblem doggo

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

Infantry, Mechs and artillery also factor into this, as they are kind of a staple unit throughout the game. Infantry can clog up battle lines, shielding other units, while also doing damage to lightly armored targets like mechs and artillery. They are also critical for contesting property, which is vital to the economic side of the game. Mechs are fairly immobile, but trade well vs all other light to medium ground units due to their low cost. If they can land a first blow, they will earn way more than they cost when striking something like a tank or anti air. Because of this, you want a healthy number of infantry and/or mechs of your own to clear out and screen against enemy infantry and mechs. You never want any of your non infantry/mech units to be taking a first hit from enemy mechs if you can avoid it. Heck, pure mechs is even overpowered in any small map where their short movement isn't as punishing. Copters are also decent vs infantry since Mechs can't use their rockets against them. Artillery, meanwhile, devastates all ground units and can slowly push forward any battle line by hopping forward with overlapping ranges. They are a must kill target for any ground push, as they will heavily punish any ground push that fails to uproot them from any entrenched position. This is one of the places that copters actually shine brightest. Sneaking past any terrain to cripple an artillery and allow the rest of the ground forces to push in. Tanks and anti air also work well enough in this role, provided you can pry open a land route to the artillery. So often times the wall of infantry ends up being the largest part of any army. Mechs appear as well, but are a bit map dependent for their quantities. Tanks serve as the ground allrounder, to push in, taking out mechs, artillery and anti air. Anti air is quite fragile to both tanks and mechs, despite their great damage vs infantry and mechs, so they sit as zoners to punish and screen out copters. Copters act as harassers and assassins, poking at anything not screened by an anti air, and diving in to take out a priority artillery or something. The presence of just a couple copters also forces the enemy to respond with anti air, which is generally an economic drain and tank food as long as you don't actually let your copters get taken out. And Artillery serves as the front line holder. Slowly taking control of any land your front line can push up to, while making pushes into their range very daunting.

[@mahxylim7983]

Wow, didnt expect this video to be so new! Glad to know you plan to make more, this is my childhood!

[@louisbaudin576]

I feel like it's only partially true. The very good mobility of Battle Copters make them able to pick the engagement they want, being more of an evasive attacker that can retreat behind terrain inaccessible to threaded units and making the unit much easier to deploy on the battlefield. Most of the time, the tanks are going to come from far, making you need to adapt to the engagement you'll have in sometimes 3 or 4 turns on your factory planning. While the battle copter is on the field very fast. It makes the AA tank a reaction unit, making it a counter unit more than an offensive unit except in few situation. You are trying to bait air Unit to attack into your range with AA tanks while you decide when to attack with your copters. Wich make the balance around fuel and air unit very interesting making them effective on a time table that can't be as long or good than ground units. So I wouldn't call it a perfect balance but an interesting mechanic that doesn't mirror the classic fire beats grass beats water beats fire. But rather force you to change your playstyle.

[@KhumiSunguard]

When the beats are so good the outro last 1:30 minutes

[@unr3markabl393]

the tank animation with its retracting cannon slightly unnerves me

[@derdeutschemitdempinguin4891]

What about the other weapon triangle no one talks about ? Subs, Battleships and cruisers? I know naval combat almost never matters in any maps but I'm wondering whether the weapon triangle is more or less skewed then this one (Of course considering a map without airports)

[@DollyBowman]

Def more skewed, but that's because of the unequal ability of each ship to impact the land battle. An uncontested battleship is an enormous advantage, threatening a huge land area with devastating firepower. Cruisers can kill the stray air unit here and there. Subs can't affect the land battle directly. That's why subs need to be devastating against battleships, since unlike the other ships they only have one purpose.

[@tricky2795]

Navel weapon triangle is weird, since they have a lot of problems naval superiority usually won't matter, since only battleships can fight land units, which is the most important battlefield where the fighting for properties take place On top of that their extremely high cost also makes naval warfare rarely mattering, since most maps don't have high enough income to support one and one would rather spend it on land units Battleships counter cruisers and stalemate against other battleships, only fearing submerged submarines. Since they are the only naval unit that can fight land units, battleships are the most useful Naval combat unit, if the main battles are taking place on land (with a map without an airport taking into consideration) Cruisers starting from AWDS, can attack other ships, but the dmg is minimal, and they are zoned out by battleships (they can do 95% base dmg usually one shotting a cruiser), They "supposedly counter" submarines, but submerged subs are hard to deal with Submarines, while submerged, can only be attacked by other subs and cruisers, but the enemy needs another unit next to the submerged sub to spot it this is harder than it sounds, since naval units are so expensive, it's hard to afford 2 navel units and keeping both alive just to fight off 1 single submerged sub I think the naval unit ratio would be skewed either towards battleships if the map favors land more, and towards submarines if it favors the sea more You could build a wall of submerged subs and battleships behind it to secure your naval superiority

[@daddysempaichan]

@@tricky2795 You can just use air units like Battlecopters to spot submerged Subs. In fact, you can use land unit's to spot subs if they park next to land. Use Cruiser's ability to house BCopters to save fuel on them, get to the front, or wherever the sneaky sub is, and launch the BCopters to spot and hunt it down with the Cruiser. Of course, this still doesn't make Cruisers that good, as Cruisers still die to just about anything, like enemy BCopters. You know, the thing that they're supposedly good against, and the thing that cost almost a third of a Cruiser, and also is a unit that Battleships can't kill.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

The sea triangle is a huge mess on account of how expensive it is. Unless you're on a really weird map, the sea units cost so much that you'll never delve deep into the sea triangle. Instead it is usually just trying to land your landers and stop enemy landers, while keeping boats away from shore with indirect. And of course the entire sea roster loses to air units, which is ridiculous. At least until Days of Ruin, which made sea slightly more usable.

[@tricky2795]

@@daddysempaichan the original question was considering a map without airports. With air units taken into consideration, the entire naval warfare falls apart completely

[@wolfspider2034]

"These 3 units should make up most of your army" Me a Grit main:......

[@akanekurashiki4464]

Just be a good actor like a pro-wrestler and use tanks

[@fluffalpenguin]

I'm excited to see you making analytical stuff again! That first Fire Emblem spreadsheet video is probably my second favorite thing you've done (after making "Hero King Marth" mean "Heartless Monster Marth" of course). Only criticism would be that the end card goes on a bit too long.

[@starhalv2427]

From my experience, anti-air are actually the strongest in the weapon triangle. If enemy wants to use copters, they'll prioritise destroying anti-air over your tanks, then you can move out with your tanks to destroy theirs. If enemy tank is damaged, anti-air can finish or trade equally with them, which is good against Andy and for finishing tanks that'd get repaired on next turn. On top of that, anti-air is just as effective against indirects and recons, and more effective against infantry, compared to tanks. Finally, anti-air is cheaper than the thing they're countering, giving an income advantage over copter spam. I find that I win 4 out of 5 matches in which my oponent spams battlecopters, while myself I usually only produce one or 2 bcopters. My preferable composition for each battle group are as many tanks as possible, 1-2 anti-air, and 0-2 artillery with a possible addition of one battlecopter, and the moment I enter combat I produce anti-air and a tank to reinforce

[@HawkBreland]

wow KZbin recommended me a gem. awesome! subbed, good video.

[@superkonijn988]

Not even touched advanced wars in my life but watched the entire video regardless. More educational stuff like this (akin to your spreadsheet and mechanic video's) would be cool.

[@Shishizurui]

From someone who has never PVP'd the real use of Battle copters can be situational they are best used when terrain is a hinderance, and to take out hard to reach artillary/rockets they can also do a nice poke to a Medium tank these kinds of engagements are so worth Anti Air does okay against other light vehicles too like recon/ apcs. tanks tho are just so versitile

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

This is a great video. Overall, The tank Spam seems the more effective strategy but keep in mind that An Anti Air can take some damage and still 1 Shot Copters (Usually it takes around 7 HP for it to do this precisely). When it comes to killing Meatshields (Infantry spam), Anti air is a must, since Both B copters and Tanks cannot kill full HP Infantry unless their firepower is boosted around 40%. Finally, There are COs like Eagle and Sturm which boost Defense, Which allows B copters to not get 1 Shot, Which can be a huge difference.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

Tank spam ends up in a lot of trouble if the enemy is spamming artillery and mechs, which pound for pound both shred other ground units. Even Anti Air isn't that good at cutting meat shields, since they lose vs a first striking mech and the artillery behind the infantry wall. So really all the other units that aren't infantry and mechs end up being sort of specialists built in medium to small quantities to complement an infantry/mech ground force.

[@h1tsc4n40]

if the enemy has well placed arty + mechs your tank spam will come to an end very, very fast. And remember, anti airs lose to mechs who strike first.

[@3XHS]

@@TheEmperorGulcasa but the issue with that is that artillery/mech heavily sacrifices map presence, so on maps with any reasonable size it’s not the best strategy.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@3XHS Eh, kind of. You don't make pure Mechs unless it's a small map. Or you're Sensei. But most maps I've seen for pvp are heavily capture based, so you end up having mostly an infantry based comp no matter what. Artillery don't need large numbers unless you're in a reeeealy spread out map. One or two completely controls a space.

[@awilddomo2765]

I would love if you could make more of these. I already know how to play, but I'm really bad at explaining the strategies to my friend who I want to get into advance wars

[@h1tsc4n40]

I do not agree fully. Damage isn't the only balancing factor. Tanks are very powerful, but they also can't cross rivers, can't capture properties, are slowed down by terrain, and lose to Mechs. Helicopters simply are not a tank's counter, mechs and artillery are. Helicopters in turn are hilariously effective against indirects and quite effective against infantry, not to mention they are fast and can reposition extremely quickly, meaning one can conduct hit and run attacks against high value targets. Anti-Air units are strong and can oneshot helicopters, but one AA isn't gonna hold against two helicopters simply because they can just fly where the AA isn't. And the AA will have to either try and follow them (which it cannot do since it's too slow and affected by terrain) or you'll have to live with two helicopters marauding your back lines, which isn't ideal. Helicopter vs helicopter fights should be avoided imo, it is a bit of a waste to use a helicopter against a helicopter when other units would fare so much better, but it will do in a pinch. Basically, helicopters are hit and run harassers and can do extreme damage if kept hidden until the last moment.

[@Sephiroth08150]

This really isn't as cut and dry as you say. This doesn't account for two things: terrain, and vision. Helicopters are great where there are lots of terrain the ground units can hardly pass, and have increased vision, thus making them a first-strike unit. Anti-Air can be used to great effect against infantry and can severely cripple bombers. Some anti-air saved my HQ more than a few times from sneaky capture attempts. Tanks are just so useful in so many ways, they will end up paying back for themselves.

[@anonyme4881]

Well, Tank are also kinda countered by mechs and artillery, and cant traverse montain while battlecopters doesnt care about indirect units and terrain, which make them insane to reach high value/priority target like missile or artillery SAM missile is just plain bad

[@schifferay]

Very informative, need more!

[@michaela2634]

More Advance Wars content please. The algorithm has been favoring it pretty hard lately.

[@richard7199]

Meanwhile I’m sitting here with an impenetrable wall of ranged units in multiplayer.

[@Shark3143]

I like this style of video from you, I'd like to see more of this

[@The_Somewhere_Monarch]

I haven’t played Advanced Wars in years but still own all four games. This makes me want to play it again.

[@YuriXEstelle]

This is what makes you want to play again, not the fact that AW 1 and 2 are getting remade on the Switch?

[@lancelindlelee7256]

You didn't mention the mobility advantage of BCopters. It depends on the terrain of course but if there is a significant number of forests and especially rivers and mountains, Copters can go straight through while the AAir will need to go around. By the time it goes around, BCopter would have left. Finally, BCopters are immune to Indirects, save for missiles (and if opponent makes missiles, count that as a win). Copters can even snipe indirects. They are played really differently and only really work in small numbers.

[@realah3001]

B copters are hard countered by fighters

[@realah3001]

The fighters are faster and can one shot a copter

[@lancelindlelee7256]

@@realah3001 Yeah, but fighters cost 20000 vs 9000 for BCopters. If I just had 1 or 2, I'd just do what damage I can with the copters and not build more. Fighter now useless. That is even if you can afford fighters.

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

@@lancelindlelee7256 Eh, useless unless your opponent has insufficient anti-air themselves, since they can be useful for blocking until they eventually run out of gas. Still not worthwhile until funds are high enough for your enemy to have bombers.

[@meathir4921]

Excellent video. I already understood this, but I know tons of players don’t.

[@qwert1043]

This was great, but the bottom counter arrow being upside down on the triangle cut directly into my soul.

[@ibrahimabumustafa7335]

The sensei style weapon triangle infantry, mechs and battle copters

[@ErossMcCloud]

I love AW pvp so much. I've noticed this in my multiple games.

[@babu_frick]

I’ve been trying to get into this game but getting absolutely stomped online. Can’t wait to see more of this.

[@hikaritsumi2123]

Coming back to this after Mang's Step1:Challenge someone stronger than you video

[@TalanLysander]

This seems quite well reasoned, nicely done! I couldn't catch anything that seems off on first watch, although I will add that B-copters have a hidden benefit of not costing you a build on a base, which means you can build an extra infantry. It's a minor bonus, but it does provide a small additional reason to build B-copters when you want to bolster your unit count.

[@Sines314]

Was gonna say that myself. Unit count is important, and BCopters allow you to inflate your unit count, by building two units when you'd normally only build one. Copters are hard to use properly thanks to their being hard countered by Anti-Air. But when you leverage their mobility and 'free' build slot, it makes up for their high cost.

[@stevengu1253]

@@Sines314 Plus if you're using Max, they're a direct combat unit so they get Max's firepower buff, making them quite decent.

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

One should view these units as Fire Emblem Units, for those that aren't used to the Wars series as much as the FE series. Specifically, the B. Copter is a Pegasus Knight, the Tank is a Paladin, and the AA is a Nomad has a bow with 1 range. You ARE NOT meant to destroy the Paladin with your Pegasus Knight. You get in, harass, do some damage, and then hop back out behind your lines, or, better yet, behind some mountains and forests. The Nomad can't quite go into forests that well, and neither can the tanks. B. Copters are Skirmisher units. You hit, and back off. Try and pull the enemy AA up towards you without getting engaged on by it. Difficult, but possible. Tanks are all-arounders. You use them like you would with Paladins. Sustained fighting against the majority of units, but if they go up against an Armor Knight/General, they'll lose. Just like Tanks lose to Md. Tanks. Whereas AA are Responder Units. You get them in expectation, more oft than not. You get them, and then have them hide near the front in Fog of War [FoW], waiting for a B. Copter, or even a Bomber, to come blazing in. We'll leave Neotanks out of this, because its like a Paladin and a General at the same time. High Mobility, and stupid-high damage, with good DEF. Also, this analogy is tired already. Basically, you don't use them as counters, you use them in their intended roles. Advance Wars doesn't have an official weapon triangle because... Well, it just doesn't work like that. Each unit has a role. Use them in that role, and they'll be effective. Otherwise? Good luck.

[@Crimson-Hat]

I always thought military chess was Tanks->Infantry->Mines->Tanks

[@bladerdj3503]

I wonder what comes next. Let's hope this is the begin of another Franchise Revival.

[@ibrahimabumustafa7335]

Really great content can't wait for the next video, I know this is more or less directed to newer players but still I wished you have mentioned how sensei helicopters are op as heck

[@3XHS]

Days of ruin’s Anti Tank: Beats tanks Beats Copters Beats Anti Airs Loses to infantry

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

Also loses to terrain. That thing couldn't move to save it's life.

[@eboiwarcrimes1474]

Just spam mechs bro none of this nerd shit needed.

[@HansLemurson]

I've always thought it was sad that AAir cost more then Tanks, but are less effective. AA is mostly useless if there are no Air targets, but Tanks are useful in nearly all situations. As for Battle Copters, I'm often scared to bring them out onto the field because of how easily they can be zoned out or destroyed.

[@stevengu1253]

Don't be. You will sometimes need your Battle Copters to take out enemy indirects (like a rocket) to allow your tanks to advance or just take a small bite off of a MD tank. Yes, Battle Copters are strong enough to even stand against MD Tanks as long as there is no Anti-Air. You will probably want the right CO for it, though (like Sensei or Max)

[@unnsavorysalmon7720]

Arguably it’s more of a Weapon Square than a Weapon Triangle, with the 4th Element being Indirect Units (typically artillery) which counter Tanks and are countered by Battle Copters. It looks more like this Artillery👈 B.Copters 👇 👆 Tanks 👉Anti-Air

[@DarkOrderSolDjango]

Holy shit I was just fed up with Advance wars by web ranking because I saw this unit triangle and now youtube recommended me this weapon. Holy shit that must be fate !

[@mikumikuiyada]

For war room, u want as many battle copters tho, since they do damage and get no damage in return. You can also lure their AA's using capturing infantry. You can also maintain high infantry production rate while building copters. the secret of S rank of most war rooms, is using mass copters. Copters also hard counters medium tank and neo tank and could not be hit by indirect units AND is near immune to mechs, a very ignored fact. Copters also cant be bombed by bombers, and can easily zone out enemy battle copters as effectively as an AA. in PVP, in a multi front battle, copters can "switch fronts" much easily compared to land based units, which means that a single copter may force the enemy to build two AA's on two different fronts. In short, Copters is a slightly more expensive AA, can do their job as good as AA's, and rekts everything except AA and has none of the weaknesses of AA.

[@NeedsMoDakka]

Hi, I'm basically a 20 year vet when it comes to Advance Wars. You're -mostly- correct; there's some balance changes in Days of Ruin you didn't touch on that boosts the effectiveness of battle copters to REALLY make this "Weapon Triangle" more viable, but you touched on other tactical points superbly. Well done!

[@3XHS]

Yeah bcopters deal 70% to tanks in dor and take 18% in return, kinda hilarious tbh

[@AndreIsrael43]

Weapon triangle you say? It's all good just get some Indirect Bombers from Flak 🤷🏿‍♂️ you ain't got nothing to worry bout lol

[@SuperLemonfish]

dont forget that AA also are the best counter to infantry. most often getting 1hkos which is really nice compared to a tanks middling 50%. It can be important when pushing past defensive lines or contesting property.

[@memelurd7341]

(While yes I know his name outside the US) Imagine if Flak was a specialist in countering air units and infantry.

[@carlosoros53]

What's the program you used to calculate? I'm very curious about how the calculations were derived. Also great video my friend, this was really interesting and the length was perfect, enough to cover the ideas without over extending and making it seem boring.

[@GoodGarret777]

It's a feature within Advance Wars By Web.

[@pvtblu1613]

In OG Advance wars the only direct ground unit that can beat a Battle Copter in a slug fest was an anti air. A Medium tank would eventually lose out, even if it gets the first strike.

[@JJSSBU]

So it's more like Pokemon, Grass gym? Use 6 Fire types. Water gym? Use 6 Grass types. Fire gym? Use 6 Water types...

[@MasterKnightDH]

Thank you. The overreliance on the Light Tank-Anti-Air Tank-Battle Helicopter triangle is something irksome about the metagame and should be addressed. Also, seeing you make clear that Light Tank spam gets promoted if the Airport is not ridiculously close to frontlines also vindicates my points that the Tabitank in Days of Ruin is just plain castrating map design creativity. And yeah, that BOTH of your answers to the Light Tank spam involve playing the numbers game just brings up more reason WHY Game Boy Wars 3's unit variety would have been useful for getting it under control. The Humvee and IFV, while they wouldn't be ridiculously fast, still would be faster than the Bazooka soldier and Artillery. The Humvee would be different from the Battle Helicopter as well: though Light Tanks would be able to hurt it on first strike and the Humvee would actively have to worry about map obstacles, on the bright side, the Humvee would actually get to do something against the Buggy AND the Anti-Air Tank. As for the IFV? It's an Armor unit, except with the involvement of risk-reward via a good anti-armor weapon and the ability to transport soldiers. It would have been a good wall buster with conditional continuous pressure ability also mixed in. Just...yeah, AW doesn't provide too many good options to stagger the Light Tank flowchart. Except, of course, infantry spam, but that's its own can of worms anyway, one that likes to make things worse.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

If I recall correctly, most AW games were dominated by mech, infantry and artillery, with the entire tank, anti air and copter triangle all being units built only in moderate quantities by comparison (though tanks were still the most of the 3). Also, last I heard from discussions about Days of Ruin, the Tabitank actually had fallen out of favor and was regarded as just a mid tier option.

[@MasterKnightDH]

@@TheEmperorGulcasa The Tabitank only "falls out of favor" if the map used preowned Airports, at which point the map is just going to turn into cavemen beating each other on the head with excessive threat of deployment point lockdown and general invalidation of terrain. I don't think so. I can just point out how the Tabitank can easily rush on the early game for easy, EASY meter and a blatant economy lead. That's not good design regardless. But yeah, infantry+artillery spam is very much a problem in the AW games.

[@Funnyman-wj2yn]

Instructions unclear, What are airports again?

[@gxtmfa]

I wonder what the scene is like for days of ruin

[@jeremymore451]

Now do a triangle for Sensei. Mechs take out Tanks and..... wait what? Mechs just take out tanks?

[@theblackantonio]

If you're playing as Sensei, your opponent will make nothing but anti-air 😂

[@megarotom1590]

"anyone who spams one of these will be at an inherant disadvantage" Sensei mains: are you sure about that? (Sensei mains can often use mechs as anti-air countering and doing decent damage to tanks while having battlecopters wreck the enemy battlecopters and artillary and then their tanks although may need to build an extra APC or 2 depending on map size and format)

[@Jrpg_guy]

Well thats the gimmik of him, you know, liie wit eagle flying units

[@megarotom1590]

@@Jrpg_guy no that's eagle *completely straight face*

[@Jrpg_guy]

@@megarotom1590 i have only recently found out of this series, thats why I have of a lit og things no idea or get them wrong. Sorry

[@megarotom1590]

@@Jrpg_guy nah your good, I was making a joke. If your playing AW1 or DS, eagle is better. If your playing AW2, Sensei is better.

[@DEERCRACKERLOVER]

The firepower with the unit from attacking first seems only thing is unbalanced i found it not Good at all

[@nikolaichejov5526]

There are other unbalanced triangles like Sub>Battleship>Destroyer and Recon>Mech>Tank

[@goatmeal5241]

I wonder how many times Mangs has been sent this video since getting wrecked by your mass tank lol

[@Quarataia]

I like your comedy, but these info dump videos are a good addition to your portfolio.

[@TheZintastic]

And then there's AW2 Sensei, who simply ignored all of that.

[@TheRestedOne]

This presents an interesting strategy to 'flaunt' early copters to try and bait over-investment in a-air. Especially in fog of war.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

Advance wars was never meant to have a weapon triangle though. That's just players carrying a notion over from Fire Emblem where it doesn't need to be.

[@realah3001]

Yes because bombers counter all ground units but are expensive to lose while fighters can only fight air units but are very good at it

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I find early AA to be a pretty underrated strategy. AA absolutely wrecks infantry or Mechs, even on property, more than a Tank does, spooks players out of early battlecopters which keeps your tanks and flanks safe, and AA have this air of being a vulnerable, frail unit, and thus are pretty good bait to lure in a Tank to get jumped by Mechs or something. Plus, while fighting up the triangle, so to speak, AA guns can actually take a pretty meaty bite out of a tank on the first strike, which offers even more lure opportunities. It's a much more versatile and flexible unit than a lot of people give it credit.

[@Utsuhoagie]

Personally I don't think so, because they're slightly more expensive than a tank (for their price you could get a tank + infantry for example) and they still can't 1HKO infantry in the cap phase as most of them will stay on heavy terrain, unless you have a massive CO firepower boost (like Kanbei or Max or something, and even then they still barely miss out on killing infantry on cities usually), so it doesn't matter as much if an enemy infantry is capping with 5 HP left vs 2-3 HP left, which your own infantry can usually kill anyway, and against early tanks AA will just crumble because they cost more but don't deal much damage in return. Mechs could be useful here to "counter" tanks, but they're way too slow in most cases I personally don't build AAs until I have at least a couple tanks out, or at least I see the opponent building a B-copter

[@12Metatron]

Tanks cost less and are stronger and well... tankier. Its not cost efficient to sacrifice a more expensive unit to attack a cheaper one

[@andrewrivera190]

This is going to be SUPER relevant come December.

[@arcturus64]

Hey man, small suggestion for future vids, could you post the link to the maps you've shown (description or Pinged comment)? Great vid, by the way, Mechs kinda throw the whole equation off due to being worth 3K yet dealing the same damage to tanks as tanks do despite costing less than half. Granted you'd need to bait your opponent's tanks and anti air but it still is a very good trade if the baiting unit has low value. Also Light tanks CAN attack battle copters but you'd be stupid to or you're using samurai spirit.

[@sunonaro]

im hyped for the remake

[@Mark-nn2ce]

Do you play Wargroove at all? I haven't played in a while and I suspect that it's dying, but its a good game. You cant really get good (or any) matches from the built in matchmaking, but the Groove of War discord server provides a good community for worthy opponents.

[@YVray]

Great video. You should pay a little more attention to movement though: copters have the same movement as tanks (6) but can fly over all terrain, while tanks are slowed by forests and stopped by mountains, rivers, et al. The way you framed it in this video the copter is all-but-useless, but there's no offensive unit that can match them for mobility-for-cost.

[@lucky9293]

the so-called weapon triangle when I spam colin rockets:

[@Polaris5664]

Conclusion: Use artillery, they counter 1/2 of the weapon triangle.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

And mechs, who are also cost effective vs all except the copters.

[@VestedUTuber]

I'd go a step further and say that anti-air should be treated specifically as a counter unit, built as needed rather than as a part of your core army. Because tanks are both 1000G cheaper and counter Anti-Air and B-copters are difficult to bring out reliably AND can be used against other B-Copters, the specialized nature of Anti-air makes them a poor choice for a bread-and-butter unit. Sure, one anti-air can pretty much kill one infantry a turn, but so can a couple infantry of your own. And a tank is better against literally everything else as far as ground units (and they can actually attack sea units, not that you would want or need to use them that way). I don't see any reason, apart from dealing with B-copters and other air units, to build an Anti-Air rather than a Tank.

[@MasterKnightDH]

The Anti-Air Tank doesn't need multiple spaces to destroy an infantry unit. That's the key point and it allows for disrupting picket lines so that you can get at the pesky indirects or other protected units behind the infantry. Addendum: case in point from Game Boy Wars 3 PALBal patch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXjRY5SKqb2Nfbc

[@VestedUTuber]

@@MasterKnightDH Problem: Anti-air instantly killing infantry is only guaranteed when the infantry unit has no defense boosts of any sort, either through CO abilities or terrain. The damage range for Anti-Air attacking Infantry on plains is 94% to 102%, and the required damage percent for an instant kill is 95%. Forests change the damage range to 84% to 91%, which is guaranteed survival. As a result, unless the blocking infantry is on a road, bridge or shoal, and your opponent isn't playing Von Bolt, Sturm or Kanbei and hasn't used a CO power on their previous turn, Anti-Air will never be 100% reliable as a linebreaker. You can still use them that way even if the opposing infantry has a cumulative 10% boost to defense from any source, but the risk of a minimum damage role is big enough to be a factor over the course of a game. Don't even bother trying to use Anti-Air as a linebreaker against an infantry on a forest or better. Of course, if you play any CO that gives a boost to Anti-Air (Hawke, Von Bolt, AW2 Sturm, Kanbei, Jess, Kindle when attacking from properties, Olaf in snow, Jake when attacking from plains, Koal when attacking from roads, Lash when attacking from anything with terrain stars), the random factor against infantry on plains becomes a non-issue. In short, it's heavily reliant on terrain, CO choice and a number of other factors. Honestly, if I was stuck in like that, I'd rather have an indirect of my own. Source: Testing via the AWBW Damage Calculator. awbw.amarriner.com/calculator.php

[@hhluca8062]

you should bet a match on a new microphone from Mangs

[@uandresbrito5685]

This was super interesting. In-depth analysis of COs and units of AW is always something I enjoy watching, even if I don't play pvp

[@joshuawaldron5929]

the animation at 5:55 fucking killed me for some reason

[@Metakeyman]

High funds weapon triangle vid when?

[@kampfer91]

Too complicated , we do Sensei mech spam instead .

[@hilbertblack]

pvp is cool and all but teach me how to not get destroyed by campaign missions in advance wars dual strike pls

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

The secret is mostly to use Sasha to drain the enemy power meter.

[@rpgaddict314]

Anti air is also very good against infantry/mech spam since they do more damage than tanks.

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

Against infantry spam, yes; against mech spam, they don't usually deal improved enough damage to outweigh their greater cost and the higher damage they take, especially since mechs will tend to move in swarms through defensive terrain.

[@yoloman3607]

But anti air can’t get over rivers or mountains RIP

[@SharurFoF]

Mech spam tho

[@MasterKnightDH]

And to think that Bazooka soldiers are even better in Days of Ruin AND base Game Boy Wars 3.

[@emblemwarrior11]

Advance Wars PvP strategy guides from you would be cool! Please make more!

[@Dennis_Ryan_Lynch]

Nice, I’ve only recently found out about advanced wars and still have yet to play my first game, so this is interesting!

[@zoltansaged]

Colin: wait he's talking about tanks? normal tanks? looks out at his mass of neo-tanks and AA tanks

[@stevengu1253]

I mean, it's not a bad idea for Colin to spam tanks if he has a lot of bases. The extra fodder is always good.

[@rudolflc1684]

Excelblem advanced to Excelwar!

[@robertharris6092]

B copters also ignore terrain movement costs.

[@Raindrop_2401]

Well, I was on the fence about getting reboot camp, but pvp actually sounds interesting enough to make me want to pick it up

[@pikmino3288]

Please consider doing it! Different Commanding Officers will also influence what type of strategies players use.

[@Utsuhoagie]

The game's PvP is surprisingly deep, it's a lot of fun and I think any Advance Wars fan should try it. The experience is way different from playing vs the AI in the games, because those are really predictable and easy to bait, but humans play very differently. Reboot Camp is one way, but another way (that is currently out now, with a very active community and is also actively getting developed) is by playing Advance Wars By Web

[@xg.55555]

Video was amazing. Please more!!!

[@Pm3m_Dia]

I always prefer having a B.Copter around as it is quite flexible in terms of tactics.