Experts say US lithium demand will grow nearly 500% by 2030

Experts say US lithium demand will grow nearly 500% by 2030
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#lithiumironphosphate #us #demand #batterytechnology
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[@stefan2796]

Bad for the environment... So much for the "green" transition.

[@user-jd6zg5pu7q]

You can't produce anything without affecting the environment. Gas cars are bad for your health and much worse for the environment.

[@Drbettencourt116]

Lithium batteries are poisoning our environment

[@mastichka]

Not much the atmosphere, unlike the petrol industry.

[@johndavid9418]

Some, not all Lithium-ion batteries contain Cobalt, nickel, and manganese which are the culprits your thinking of & are what cause the problem bro. Btw Lithium batteries are recycled now. If there's a problem well fix it, after all the whole point of EVs is to help the environment. If you keep up with battery tech you'll find producers are experimenting with different battery chemistries to deal with your issue. So, don't stress we're on the same side but progress takes sacrifice & time, EV batteries have a long way to evolve but it's more important to stop the bigger problem the price of running a vehicle & ICE pollution & oil which is literally killing people animals & nature everyday, right now. Neither forms of energy (oil batteries horse & carts) are perfect, but which would you prefer ? If your thinking of choosing H & C the methane & bio waste produced would destroy & pollute the environment worse than oil or batteries put together.

[@RawandCookedVegan]

Sam, you're the best. No nonsense, just quality information and common sense. Thank you sir.

[@belowme4927]

"EXPERTS" ARE NOT ALWAYS CORRECT

[@alhkcblack9617]

That's because many of those aren't experts but mouthpieces and spokespeople. For who? Just follow the money.

[@davidpearn5925]

Some think that Elon Musk is a genius. Facts be damned !!!.

[@johndavid9418]

Tell yourself that before you have surgery.

[@davidpearn5925]

Love the alternative facts ?. Election stolen ?.

[@Stuey-007]

I’m sure Elon is not even thinking about the ney sayers.. I’m with the dude that owns a car company, buys a media outlet when he thinks it’s time and…. Ah ye.. sends more rockets to space than NASA 😂😂😂😂

[@Terkini-pr1nj]

Now . Sodium battery already go to market . And i think lithium slowly demand in future

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

interesting, if Sodium is the new kid on the block, we have to ask why? up till now the message was, it is much cheaper than lithium, but if lithium was the same price, why go to an inferior product?

[@HenrikSvensson-is4mq]

@@TerryHickey-xt4mf Both sodium and lithium are essential for the world, and it would be best if cheaper cars and storage used sodium and lithium to other higher demand products.

[@paulkempinski4602]

Sodium is very abundant and cheap but purification to battery grade adds to costs. Average EV battery needs about 10 kg of lithium carbonate. Lithium has better properties for battery applications compared to sodium, it makes little difference whether the official cost of lithium carbonate is USD 15 or 50 per kg, unless for very cheap cars with low range.

[@patrickleahy590]

You didn’t mention recycling of batteries

[@jeffl4810]

That's huge, as they're pretty much indefinitely recyclable. They are so valuable that battery recyclers pay about $45 USD per kWh of NMC chemistry and $15 per kWh for LFP

[@robertfonovic3551]

​@jeffl4810 perhaps, but not in Asia, Australia or Europe.

[@sd70cal]

@@robertfonovic3551 What you are implying is that someone in the US has figured out a business niche that is profitable, and Asia, Australia and Europe can't. So I did a quick check to see if what you implied had any truth to it. Took about 30 seconds to find this The major companies in the Asia-Pacific lithium-ion battery recycling market are Glencore, Retriev Technologies, Umicore, TES, Fortum, Contemporary Amperex Technology Co., Limited, GEM Co., Ltd., Ganfeng Lithium Co.,Ltd., Attero, Tata Chemicals Ltd., Veolia Environnement SA, Batrec Industrie, Neometals Ltd, & Envirostream Australia Pty Ltd. In December 2021, Envirostream Australia Pty Ltd received approval from the city council for the establishment of their second and larger recycling plant setup Did not check Europe as it seems evident business will exploit opportunities.

[@jeffl4810]

@robertfonovic3551 These minerals won't go to waste... Too valuable... The methods used to extract them, may, however, be questionable...

[@Stan_144]

'lithium gold mine' .. where is the link ?

[@frankcoffey]

There will be other type of batteries that will help reduce the demand for lithium. For example if installed storage can use sodium or other types of batteries that will leave more lithium available for making cars. By 2030 I believe there will be many type of batteries available and some of those might be good enough for use in cars.

[@danielstapler4315]

The price of Lithium Carbonate in CNY has been flat for the last 6 months.

[@aaaaa5272]

"Experts"?!? Documentation would be great.

[@PD55_]

Cheap lithium plus free $billions from the government to make batteries? Some connected fools will make a lot of money soon. But EVs are still too expensive in the US for the average working person. GM and Ford are a decade behind in manufacturing technology, along with the UAW they are actively slowing adoption. Dealer markups and financing are killers even for ICE cars, and it looks like we are heading into a recession that will slow everything down.

[@davidinkster1296]

I would take these predictions with a grain of salt (literally, sodium chloride) as the ability for sodium to replace or supplement the use of lithium is unlikely to have been foreseen by these 'experts'. The ability of sodium to replace lithium will be a welcome stabilising factor on both the price and the demand for lithium. And speaking as a geologist, the world is not going to run out of lithium anytime soon, and it's extraction is no more 'dirty' than most other minerals, so any anti-EV trolls can dream up different lies to push.

[@jeffpitoniak]

Gravity, sand, and redox are all on the rise for stationary grid scale replacing lithium also

[@jeffl4810]

I always love the anti lithium arguments... My favorite is telling them that a typical passenger EV contains just 10's of kg's of lithium... All fully recyclable... Vs the 10's of thousands of liters of fuel consumed over the lifespan of a similar ICE vehicle... None of it recyclable. And that it cost a lot more energy and oil to make those liters of fuel. Electricity alone is about 2kWh needed per liter of fuel to extract, transport, store, refine, distribute and dispense.... Those same 2kWh would take an EV further then an ICE burning that liter of fuel.

[@jeffpitoniak]

@@jeffl4810 and the estimate that by 2030 over 95% of all nmc and lithium in new batteries will be recycled. By 2050 100%

[@waywardgeologist2520]

The problem in the U.S. with getting a new mine started is permitting. I agree with you about Li and Na.

[@jeffl4810]

@@jeffpitoniak Yep! Recycling will be that huge! Recyclers already pay about $45 per kWh for NMC and $15 for LFP per kWh

[@davidnika446]

Where's the link to the video about the lithium discovery in the U.S. ? I looked through the description, and saw a ton of videos, but not the one mentioned.

[@jeffpitoniak]

It was about one year ago

[@Stuey-007]

It’s a company called Ioneer with a lithium boron mine in Nevada…

[@laughinggas5281]

Or American Battery Technology Company which has multiple business lines including mining and they have one of the largest lithium fines in the us. But ultimately there is a ton of lithium in the United States. Not just in lithium carbonate but in Brine and lithium clay

[@curlyjoh9941]

Aren't all Western Auto marques supposed to be bankrupt by 2030?😂

[@maxspeed30]

Excellent video thanks Sam

[@electricviking]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@i.k.5822]

Century Lithium Corp. (LCE), take a look guys.

[@leathallee2047]

Well done mate 👍

[@rodmitchell831]

Thanks so much Sam

[@electricviking]

Any time!

[@jdqc]

What is going to be the part of recycling in the demand versus mining?

[@WM12329]

The U.S Government introduces HUGE tariffs on Chinese made EV's and other goods at a time when Lithium prices are low, making battery costs and EV's cheaper. U.S. car manufacurers are going to have to make EV's to sell to the U.S market (and there is big demand, despite what some are saying). Lithium will go up in price, batteries will go up in price and U.S. EV's will not get cheaper. It suits investors in all the supply chain suppliers. Higher prices means more profits. It's all about money, money, money.

[@billjohnson9221]

If we only use the autp transition as the guidepost, that is saying we are only going to 5x the number of EVs we'll be making but we need to increase that production to between 15x and 20x. Now, add in all the energy storage batteries that we need for our homes and for the grid itself. No, if we don't switch/evolve to something like sodium, we are easily going to need 5000% as much lithium not just 500% more. Fortunately there is lots of it and we do have sodium arriving on the scene now too.

[@NSG_Team007]

Focusing on presales for the best returns. Revux is my top pick!

[@Rk_FACt_78]

Swapped my alts for BTC and Revux. This presale is a no-brainer!

[@kurtlowder3276]

this is 5x but this does not mean we will be selling 5x the number of EVs. stationary storage is growing. electronics is growing. most importantly, average battery pack size of EVs will have to grow if we want to get to say 30% EV by 2030. we have a bunch of sedans and crossovers for sale and a few trucks at very low scale. additionally, the sedans and crossovers we have do not have enough range yet. by 2030. the expectation for range will be close to 400 miles or at least 350. charging is way behind and lots of potential buyers dont have home charging. people cannot be expected to fast charge twice a week.

[@1voluntaryist]

Two factors not included, impossible to know, are: 1. Production efficiency increases. 2. Battery tech innovation could kill the Li market. Or, a little of both, and the cost of Li goes down.

[@cyrilvankeirsbelk7299]

Need more range!

[@user-wf4cc1oo6o]

China has just started mineing under the sea floor for battery minerals The last place we haven’t destroyed. Thanks EVs

[@johnporter5828]

What happened to NaCl? I thought that it was replacing Li...

[@mrmawson2438]

I believe so

[@mrmawson2438]

Morning mate

[@hanswitvliet8188]

How about the lithium refinery by Tesla?

[@thatguysteely]

Yep, as usual the opposite this will be correct, thank you for your time

[@mysteriouse5891]

We'll see ...

[@michaelg1569]

How many personal cars does a robo taxi replace?

[@Crabbytwo1]

Not Mine! I like to Drive my Car and so FSD is out as well. It's my own Freedom Machine.

[@robertfonovic3551]

They don't exist. Ridiculous question.

[@franknicholasdale9141]

I would like to see go to the bank a quote %’s and see what they say

[@PonuSarsar]

Everyone’s talking about Qventi lately. Feels like another Revux situation.

[@waywardgeologist2520]

4:05 have to disagree with the demand for using lithium for storage. Na will be the element used in storage given the supply of it, cost, and evolving technology improvements. If it is half the cost of Li, why use Li for grid scale storage?

[@h-town623]

Sounds like battery day all over again.

[@shoestringsev4529]

Lithium is a risky investment as it depends on how fast and how far Sodium ion batteries advance. There will be some time for lithium to grow but the time frame will probably be limited.

[@ernieschatz3783]

Gime chingin ballistics?

[@harrisoncheyne8593]

Lithium is pure speculation, so many ways to make a battery.

[@mauricedegroff5669]

Why is that gonna happen up to now they’re supposed to be a salt battery. They’re supposed to be a solid state battery. There’s all kinds of new batteries but now suddenly we’re going back to lithium. What’s going on? Is the system also rigged in the Batteries system

[@khalifahmuhammad1574]

What about recycling efforts? This will have an inevitable large impact on lithium demand. In short, we will not need as many lithium mines if recycling companies ramp up in a major way.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

I'm doubting reliability this an analysis. Lithium demand will obviously grow, however other battery technologies could take market share away from Lithium, along with the growth of ubiquitous EV super charging technologies, so that range becomes less significant and vehicles can operate more efficiently, without having to carry a huge battery around as extra luggage. Thus Lithium battery sizes could actually fall in a mature ubiquitous EV supercharging market. If you have an EV super charger say every 10 miles in a matured EV market, then you don't need Lithium batteries. You can use cheaper less energy dense battery technologies, like sodium. In such an environment, a 250 km range would be way more than adequate for the majority of use cases.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

I would reemphasize that it makes sense to operate EVs as efficiently as possible ( given that the battery weight does not change during the EV journey ). This means using as small an EV battery as possible and as practicable. Why carry around a battery twice the size and weight, that uses twice the amount of Lithium, when you don't need to ? Makes no sense at all from an operational mechanical efficiency standpoint. Thus ubiquitous EV super charging will become one of the most important catalysts of large scale EV deployment and will radically reduce costs of EVs, as they will no longer require long range capability. Thus an increase in EVs demanding more Lithium will be offset by a reduction in battery sizes as geographically ubiquitous EV supercharging rollouts mature. Prime drivers of this approach, will be EV vehicle cost and EV operational efficiency and hence operational cost.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

There's an advantage in using smaller lighter batteries with less range, because if you halve the weight of your battery, you wont halve the range. It's not a one to one reduction. You typically increase your energy efficiency with a battery half the weight. Operating EVs with smaller and more lightweight batteries improves mechanical efficiency by reducing the overall weight of the vehicle. This translates to better energy efficiency, improved handling, and enhanced driving dynamics.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

Smaller battery sizes not only lower manufacturing costs but also reduce the total cost of ownership for EVs. Drivers can benefit from lower upfront costs, reduced charging expenses, and decreased maintenance costs associated with smaller battery packs.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

Optimizing battery size and weight minimizes the amount of lithium and other resources required for electric vehicle production. This approach aligns with sustainability goals and reduces environmental impact by conserving valuable resources and reducing material waste.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

By leveraging ubiquitous EV supercharging, drivers can rely on fast-charging stations to replenish their batteries as needed, rather than carrying excess battery capacity for occasional long-distance trips. This results in significant cost savings over the lifetime of the vehicle and promotes affordability and accessibility for consumers.

[@Michael-yi4mc]

I thought we had all the lithium we need now and will recycle batteries so that we won’t have to mine anymore?

[@whowhy9023]

Mining is nearly infinitely scalable so prices won’t increase much long term. Short term volatility is just a function of very rapid change. Mining might take 1-2 years to catch up.

[@waywardgeologist2520]

The problem isn’t the mining or the miners, it’s the damn permitting. Some deposits in the U.S. have been waiting over 20 years for a permit to mine.

[@ezg8448]

Yes demand will increase, but what about the infrastructure to charge those batteries? Relying on wind and solar? Kiss your savings good bye!

[@mrmawson2438]

Cheers mate

[@david9192]

They who, isn't the technology changes so fast that in 6 years we will have better cleaner batteries?

[@johnlebeau5471]

Lithium prices are down because demand is down. Look at how many big car companies are slowing their production of electric cars. Does anyone actually think prices will stay low if demand increases 500%?

[@freeheeler09]

John, this is a nanosecond drop in demand. The millions of us who have solar panels have realized that we can cut our ties to the price gouging petrol and utility monopolies and criminal cartels and produce and store ALL of the electricity we need for our homes and businesses! The energy disruption is just beginning! And Sam is one of the early prophets of a massive change away from destructive fossil fuels and towards green energy.

[@frankdelao4067]

Nothing goes straight up or straight down. Higher interest rates are beginning to take their toll. Truck sales are up but the industry is producing them faster than people are buying them. Production was increase in anticipation of lower interest rates. The auto industry measures inventory by the number of days of stock on hand and are at near record levels for many models.

[@Islamisthecultofsin]

@@freeheeler09 High prices are due to government regulations.

[@jeffpitoniak]

Only in the us. Overseas it’s different

[@Stuey-007]

You will be lucky to buy an internal combustion engined vehicle in 10 years… you will be able to buy Japanese ones however they will be going broke between now and then.. Nissan is effectively bankrupt and won’t be around much longer.. Toyota will go the same way if it does not make a massive change… Ever heard of Kodak???? Intel??? These are companies that thought they didn’t have to change

[@Joey-fs7ro]

New material will be used for more reliable and user friendly batteries, never extrapolate into the future when it comes to technology. Thomas Malthus... Malthusian Theory?? 🤔

[@linuxxr]

ya well theres alot of lithium batteries to recycle today so, with sodium coming on its gonna bee ok

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Gudday mate stoked video tyvm for ur time …… to me 500% is speculation after CATL brought to market th sodium ion battery . 30% more energy density , charges faster , cheaper and lighter no brainer win win win

[@TerryHickey-xt4mf]

sodium is heavier than lithium, and there is plenty of lithium around, so perhaps not cheaper either going forward. 30% more energy dense than what?

[@Stuey-007]

What beats that is using alloys like Niobium… much better results than any sodium produced battery, chargers faster and makes for an even lighter battery 😊 (what I’m saying is you won’t beat lithium mixed with alloys to make a superior battery for the future) Sodium won’t cut it

[@WeVisitTravelGuide]

still uses lithium inside the sodium battery lol

[@bengordon7635]

how you cannot charge cars ,, people are cutting the cables to the tesla chargers selling the copper in them insanity

[@waywardgeologist2520]

Many states now require ID and a check to be mailed out in order to leave a paper trail to follow. I expect Tesla can start using its AI to record all charging stations and immediately notify the police when someone is trying to steal their cable.

[@bengordon7635]

@@waywardgeologist2520 good luck with that ,,

[@blee7650]

LAC (a Vancouver based company) that is trying to develop the Thacker Pass lithium reserves is embarking on a major science experiment of trying to extract lithium from clay deposits. Likewise, CTR (an Australian firm) is in California's 'Salton Sea' for the past decade, again, embarking on another major science experiment of trying to extract lithium using DLE from salt brines. Neither operations have been proven on a 'large scale'. 30 years ago America had like 90% of the supply of lithium. Within the past few years, US's share of the pie had dropped to a whopping 2%. Why? What does Australia and Chile have in common? Australia produces over 50% of the global supply of lithium, which is done purely by hard rock spoduemene. In Chile, (or the lithium triangle there) supply a good portion of say 40%, which is done purely by extracting lithium from the brine salars through evaporation. If America is going to have a lithium market of it's own, raw material has to be imported and refined. But it's a dirty process and the environmentalists have this NIMBY problem. Which is why China owns the supply chain and refining. Biden just passed a 100% tax on Chinese EV imports into America. While places like NZ (who have free trade with China), and Australia, have opened the door on Chinese brand EVs.

[@sd70cal]

CTR has just begun building a new plant at the Salton Sea which will use a direct extraction process. This is an adaptation of a process that has been used for other types of mineral extraction and their current studies show they can expect a 93% recovery of lithium from the thermal vent brine. Standard Lithium has completed their study on their direct extraction process in western Arkansas from brine and is building a new plant beginning 2025 to begin extraction. It does away with rock extraction and brine pond evaporation processes. They expect a 90% extraction rate of battery quality lithium. Exxon Mobile is working on a process as well.

[@waywardgeologist2520]

Don’t be surprised if BYD builds an electric car plant in Mexico.

[@blee7650]

@@sd70cal CTR has been at the Salton Sea for the past several years, spinning the same narrative since Simbol declared bankruptcy months after Tesla put in an offer to buy them out. This is of no surprise and Wall Street has the $ elsewhere knowing that these projects are nothing more than a hyped up science experiment that will never work on a large scale nor will be competitive against existing large scale lithium production. Berkshire's Geothermal operation there also did preliminary tests on extracting lithium off their geothermal runoff. Their results cited extensive problems with handling the large amounts of silica in the brine mix that it's simply not cost effective when compared to what ALB, SQM, and other proven lithium mines are producing. Thacker Pass is another scam of the century in the works after robbing tax payer's $ in the IRA funding. LAC chose to divest their Argentina interest (a hard rock spodumene asset which produces an income) in favour for the IRA. Ganfeng parted ways taking this Argentina asset for good reason. If lithium is the future, then not all lithium is the same and China knows this. Their open market spot pricing is the key reason why all these lithium mining stocks have crashed.

[@franknicholasdale9141]

This is all speculation, certainly not worth taking seriously, every thing is coming so what’s new.

[@neildolan7177]

Don't forget that new cars sold, as a percentage of cars already owned is much less. There are lots of ICE cars on the road which will eventually be replaced by second hand EVs.

[@mnhsty]

If it’s as cheap to make an EV as an ICE, why are so many EV’s losing tons of money while selling at a higher price?

[@jeffl4810]

ICE OEM's haven't ramped up economies of scale for their EV's. That will come, at least for the OEM's who invest properly, and do it fast enough to survive.

[@mnhsty]

@@jeffl4810 So it is only cheaper for the first movers who went all in early. Now you have to assume you’re going to sell 500M a year or go home.

[@jeffl4810]

@mnhsty Well, if they don't ramp EV's they will fail. Most within the next decade. Look at Nissan right now. How about Stilantis... Hopefully, they correct their issues, and fast.... A major help is that battery production plants are popping up all over the place. That's one of the main major issues for EV production. The drivetrains themselves are actually quite simple. Heat pumps seem to be an issue for some, but as they get engineered, will be a less significant problem.

[@waywardgeologist2520]

4:57 $45,000 per metric ton for Li, Na, $800 per metric ton. Again, waste of money to be using Li for storage.

[@DR-us5jg]

What happened to sodium batteries

[@midwestslim]

induction

[@jkdm27]

OK. I’ll wait until 2030

[@Longtack55]

26 million tonnes of proven lithium in geothermal sources in one small area of the Rhine Graben. Due to start pumping and refining 2025-6. Zero carbon project.

[@MauriceOldis]

South America the new Saudi Arabia

[@davidlloyd8135]

We need increase standards for solar glass to protect from hail going forward for 20yrs, baseball size

[@migmigjohnson9351]

An increase of efficiency from its paltry 21% would be nice.

[@aaronsinspirationdaily4896]

I’ve had mine on my roof for 10 years. Paid itself off in 4-5 years. Many hailstorms and works fine. Zero problems. Sure it happens, but the likelihood is extremely low. Compared to the massive distributed solar generation around the globe? Zero impact. Not even a blip on the rise in generation. Not a blip, zero, zilch, nada.

[@aaronsinspirationdaily4896]

@@migmigjohnson9351already happening. I guess you don’t know much about the technology developments? Fossil fuels simply can’t compete. Laws of thermodynamics can’t be beaten.

[@VeryOldSaint]

Really??? When EV sales are no where near predicted and customers of new vehicles especially large trucks ( ask Ryder ) don't want anything to do with these time bombs

[@markapplejohn4376]

the way you believe in the anti-ev b.s., i guess you will vote for TRUMP believing that he was a great president...

[@cozyandahalle]

That ballistic growth in lithium demand is for mental health, not EVs.

[@freeheeler09]

Hey young geniuses. Do you really want to disrupt the energy industry? Then someone please develop an ugly, heavy, reliable, cheap, home storage battery. Tesla Powerwalls were impressive in 2017. But they come at Rolls Royce prices, and they provide a pathetic amount of storage. The baseline size for a battery shouldn’t be 13 kWh but 50 kWh. That is the minimum size of storage needed for an individual home or business to save the energy generated from rooftop solar panels and to stay off grid throughout the year.

[@freeheeler09]

And, Sam, your videos are amazing and appreciated. Keep doing your important work!

[@richardwatkins6725]

Investment into lithium at the moment is risky as the mines have tanked thinking they would make $$$ but sodium ion came along and tanked the prices. Sodium ion is starting to ramp. But the companies are battery makers, high tech electrode makers and the associated machine making companies are all going to see massive growth. this is how economic policy works and the god sent miracle of the USA finding unbelievable levels of both water based lithium and mined lithium reserves. Get your kids into mining engineering….

[@waywardgeologist2520]

If you want your kid to have to get up at 3 in the morning, commute 1.5 hours to work, work 10 to 12 hours a day, and then commute back 1.5 hours, okay.

[@richardwatkins6725]

The technology that Tesla and the Chinese / Koreans are showcasing is coming fast to mining. Compact nuclear reactors to supply power, Very low latency and robust communications, advanced drones and incredible sensors. More reliable, more powerful, semi or fully automated hauling systems needing less humans onsite. along with advanced extraction technology (especially lithium), advanced recovery and anti pollution technologies that will come if you have massive power generation on site. Getting a mine passed takes years. Getting services to it is a substantial investment and can take years. Getting it right to make a profit still needs humans with the right skills and knowledge to deal with what mother nature has in store. Over the next 20 years the mining companies will become Mega Corporations utilising advanced technology to identify resources, advanced energy generation, technology and robotics to extract raw materials. Even mini boring machines to follow load seams… It’s a growth area that AI can’t automate at startup at least. Your commute well let’s see you may work in mining and next go to the mine…

[@cs.8821]

What ate they going to do with all the sitting gas cars for sale and the ones people have been using for the past 30 years??????????????

[@docwatson1134]

That is a good question, likely it will be exactly as you would expect. Ice vehicles will be abandoned, hundreds of thousands of unwanted gas cars. Many smaller lightweight gas vehicles, and utility vehicles will be swapped out with electric drivetrain and batteries one at a time. But most...abandoned, and hopefully responsible entities will strip them out and recycle the metals.

[@kirtjames1353]

I think that because of AI that we will find better materials for creating batteries than lithium.

[@Stuey-007]

That will always be the case however right now it’s lithium and the alloys used to make them more efficient, faster charging.. don’t wait for any new fantastic product…. That’s what they said about oil and we’re still using it

[@larzlarz1140]

Because of how batteries work, you need an electron donor and an electron acceptor. Only metals can freely give up their electrons. Non-metals like carbon don’t want to give up their electrons and are considered “insulators” because they don’t let electrons move. Semi conductors, like silicon, will let electrons move, but only under certain conditions, not freely. So if you set an AI program off to look for the element that would make the best battery, it would look for a metal that will freely give up its electrons, and also have the lowest weight. The lightest metal in the periodic table is lithium. So 1,000 out of 1,000 times the AI program would pick lithium. Yes, there will be combinations of lithium doped with other elements that will be more efficient that what we currently have, but lithium will always be the core back bone of future batteries because it has the lowest weight of any metal.

[@kirtjames1353]

@larzlarz1140 Google DeepMind’s research team has introduced a deep learning tool called Graph Networks for Materials Exploration (GNoME). This AI tool has discovered 2.2 million new crystals, including 380,000 stable materials that could be used in future technologies like superconductors, supercomputers, and next-generation batteriesAd1. These materials are now being added to the Materials Project database for further research and development. 380,000 stable materials. That's a hell of a lot, and this just happened using AI. AI is going to help us find a lot more. The chances of us finding an alternative are much better than you suggest. It's not likely we are at the very end of what's possible with battery technology already. I'd say we are just getting started, actually.

[@anglosaxonmike8325]

Experts are usually wrong.

[@eb1888.]

Battery advances are coming faster than these guys can follow, it seems. Sodium could replace some of the lithium in batteries. or who knows.

[@justinr9753]

Some have already made it to the high end car audio market.

[@stevey_z]

Bout to grow at my house.

[@robertfonovic3551]

Weed? What varieties?

[@WeVisitTravelGuide]

One thing is for sure, the price of EV's will come down. I would not be surprised if the main driver to switch to EV becomes PRICE! Value proposition will be a real factor. Just look at Xiaomi SU7, already you're seeing cars which beat ICE in ever metric, including price, this just the start!

[@chillfluencer]

Lithium demand will go down. O ly peopke wjo gave nothing to so with electronics and material science beliece otherwise...because the only thing they can do is to believe that today's tec will just grow...just like some believed that HDDs would just grow larger and larger...and not be replaced by SSDs.

[@gauravgawai7802]

For the bull run: DOT, FIL, SOL. Best ICO? Definitely Revux.

[@cs.8821]

Why because people want gas cars not lithium evs

[@Paul-ng4jx]

What world do you live in that people want gas cars? Do you see how many gas cars these dealers are selling anymore practically nothing nobody wants their cars no more. Do you not realize that Kia EV sales went up well over 100% do you get your news off of crackerjack box?

[@robertfonovic3551]

​@@Paul-ng4jxapproximately 90% of car purchases are for a vehicle WITH an ICE engine. Is that hard for you to comprehend?

[@philiptaylor7902]

Mmmmmmmmm, exhaust fumes, my favourite smell.

[@user-jd6zg5pu7q]

Nobody that knows what they are talking about wants gas cars anymore.

[@drzeng-ie8eb]

​@@Paul-ng4jx two words, Lithium poisoning

[@Stuey-007]

You need to look further into it China has manipulated the lithium market (That’s why they set up the Lithium Bourse) You need to look further into Spodumene and lepidolite.. The latter is what China has and it’s more expensive to process… China is desperate to source Spodumene and has done a deal with Mali.. check the story out.. It’s outrageous

[@clroger4]

The scam of the century is over. Ask Hertz 😂

[@jeffl4810]

You mean the company who used to report their legitimately rented cars as stolen, causing their customers to aggressive get arrested? For *YEARS* The lawsuits were spectacular over that one. Or the company who charged someone $277 for gas when returning a Tesla model 3. Which had a 97% charged battery. And will not refund/back down? That just happened. Google it. It's all over the place. Or that they didn't train staff about EV's or be bothered to show new EV drivers how to operate an EV and the details about them. Which is substantially different than ICE vehicles. Or that they put EV's in areas without a lot of public fast chargers yet? Or have a discussion about charging with their customers... This is a problem for people traveling and getting a rental... Which are a large proportion of the people needing a rental vehicle... Or that Hertz bases their operating model off of the residual value of a vehicle after 2-3 years when they sell it? Tesla started dropping their prices significantly after the lithium run up during covid. This obviously affected resale value substantially. Which doesn't work well for.Hertz's model. Or that Hertz usually gets a 20-30% volume discount. Tesla didn't budge much on pricing. Based on that discount alone, Hertz basically uses the vehicles for near free, as they sell them normally for not much less then they paid for them a couple years prior. So, yeah, that company...

[@jeffl4810]

You mean the company who used to report their legitimately rented cars as stolen, causing their customers to aggressive get arrested? For *YEARS* The lawsuits were spectacular over that one. Or the company who charged someone $277 for gas when returning a Tesla model 3. Which had a 97% charged battery. And will not refund/back down? That just happened. Google it. It's all over the place. Or that they didn't train staff about EV's or be bothered to show new EV drivers how to operate an EV and the details about them. Which is substantially different than ICE vehicles. Or that they put EV's in areas without a lot of public fast chargers yet? Or have a discussion about charging with their customers... This is a problem for people traveling and getting a rental... Which are a large proportion of the people needing a rental vehicle... Or that Hertz bases their operating model off of the residual value of a vehicle after 2-3 years when they sell it? Tesla started dropping their prices significantly after the lithium run up during covid. This obviously affected resale value substantially. Which doesn't work well for.Hertz's model. Or that Hertz usually gets a 20-30% volume discount. Tesla didn't budge much on pricing. Based on that discount alone, Hertz basically uses the vehicles for near free, as they sell them normally for not much less then they paid for them a couple years prior. So, yeah, that company...

[@jeffl4810]

You mean the company who used to report their legitimately rented cars as stolen, causing their customers to aggressive get arrested? For *YEARS* The lawsuits were spectacular over that one. Or the company who charged someone $277 for gas when returning a Tesla model 3. Which had a 97% charged battery. And will not refund/back down? That just happened. Google it. It's all over the place.

[@jeffl4810]

That was Hertz's mismanagement

[@jeffl4810]

You mean the company who used to report their legitimately rented cars as stolen, causing their customers to aggressive get arrested? For *YEARS* The lawsuits were spectacular over that one. Or the company who charged someone $277 for gas when returning a Tesla model 3. Which had a 97% charged battery. And will not refund/back down? That just happened. Google it. It's all over the place. Or that they didn't train staff about EV's or be bothered to show new EV drivers how to operate an EV and the details about them. Which is substantially different than ICE vehicles. Or that they put EV's in areas without a lot of public fast chargers yet? Or have a discussion about charging with their customers... This is a problem for people traveling and getting a rental... Which are a large proportion of the people needing a rental vehicle... Or that Hertz bases their operating model off of the residual value of a vehicle after 2-3 years when they sell it? Tesla started dropping their prices significantly after the lithium run up during covid. This obviously affected resale value substantially. Which doesn't work well for.Hertz's model. Or that Hertz usually gets a 20-30% volume discount. Tesla didn't budge much on pricing. Based on that discount alone, Hertz basically uses the vehicles for near free, as they sell them normally for not much less then they paid for them a couple years prior. So, yeah, that company...

[@maciejsieracki2429]

You are talking a lot about disruption but you make predictions like it was end of disruption. I will write two letters. NA - sodium. It will be never ending story about the degreasing price of batteries. Lithium will be abandoned in 5 year's time.

[@user-fb8jb5yi6g]

I know this group is pretty optimistic about sustainable energy and EV. Im in the US and I still dont see or hear the demand in my own life. The midwest manfucaturing states and oil priducing states have a very negative attitude towards the entire green energy movement. Not that they dont like energy efficiency or technology, they know that solar panel manufacturing and lithium mining are anything but green. They feel they are being forced to adapt against their freewill.

[@josephbradford5930]

Texas is the green energy leader, by far.

[@josephbradford5930]

But yeah, people are digging in their heels. But the coercion is not necessary. Electricity is just a better way to propel a car.

[@user-fb8jb5yi6g]

@@josephbradford5930 I'm all in. Once a superior product can be produced at a lower price point, the consumer will follow. Especially when you factor in near zero maintenance costs on EV.

[@RyoshiKuraOka]

Iowa gets 60% of it's electricity from Wind. The Lone Star States has more than 18,000 active wind turbines. Texas ranks number 2 in solar energy and Florida ranks number 3. People are moving to renewable energy because it's cheaper.

[@user-fb8jb5yi6g]

@@RyoshiKuraOka Totally agree. I was more referring to EV and consumers being forced do buy a product they do not want vs a product they want to buy because it's their own decision. If people are forced to do something, they dig their heels I'm. Case in point covid vaccines. If the health authority would just have come out at said "hey, here's the vaccine, take it or leave it." There would have been a higher vaccination rate.

[@user-fs6el6nc6y]

BTC and Revux are my main holds, maybe adding some ETH.

[@terryward1422]

Some of the battery materials will be from recycled EV and grid storage batteries. The recycle materials may help keep the price down for newly manufactured batteries. We need to keep an eye on the recycling industry to get a feel for how much it can provide to the battery manufacturers. Ten years from now things could be very different.

[@frankdelao4067]

There are about 20 companies in the US alone that are building new facilities and developing new processes to refine lithium and cobalt. Many of these companies also will be recycling batteries, a few have already started. Redwood Materials, American Battery Metals, Barrel Energy and Electra Battery Materials are just a few of these companies.

[@robertfonovic3551]

​@@frankdelao4067and they will all go broke

[@haklin5650]

argument to fuel fossil narrative

[@markmiller8903]

EV demand will plummet and lithium too.

[@christopherj2231]

No son.

[@robertfonovic3551]

​@@christopherj2231yes daddy

[@stefan2796]

More and more signs that demand is slowing down a lot.

[@christopherj2231]

@@stefan2796 No...wrong.

[@Ajju_bhai_049]

Revux is shaping up to be the best ICO this year. Get in early!

[@nasimmondal657]

Insider tip: Revux is going places. Don’t miss out!

[@IndrjeetJaiswal-ey7qd]

Betting Revux will pump before XRP does.

[@asajelfs8170]

When it comes to range lithium is king and range is what everyone wants.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

They also want ubiqutous EV super charging, so that range becomes less significant and vehicles can operate more efficiently, without having to carry a huge battery around as extra luggage.

[@milohobo9186]

There is another factor that impacts EVs vs ICE sales. As the ICE models become adopted less, they become more expensive and then fewer gas stations leading to an accelerating collapse.

[@robertfonovic3551]

In your dreams. Once the full ev mandates come into force used ICE values for low milage well maintained vehicles will increase.

[@milohobo9186]

@@robertfonovic3551 without economies of scale production, the ICE platform becomes too expensive to maintain. The only reason EVs were able to stick around is because they had the backing of rich enthusiasts and are intrinsically more efficient and more simple. Once they have the economy of scale on their side it's even profitable to make EVs. Used ICE vehicles will be in the bargain bin for a little while longer, but the squeeze on gasoline and fewer ICE mechanics will probably also become an obstacle.

[@nordlandak6853]

Lol more mining and pollution. All so people can virtue signal.

[@jeffl4810]

And mining oil is clean? And then burning it... Lithium is fully recyclable indefinitely. And a typical passenger EV only contains 10's of kg of lithium...

[@nordlandak6853]

@@jeffl4810 recycling myth. No money in it.

[@jeffl4810]

@@nordlandak6853 Tell that to the recyclers paying $45 per kWh for NMC batteries, and $15 per kWh for LFP...

[@jeffl4810]

@@nordlandak6853 Yeah, right. Then why are recyclers paying $15 per kWh for LFP and $45 per kWh for NMC battery chemistries

[@adamadamm5369]

🤮🤮🤮

[@wegder]

So trump is going to go green?

[@roberthealey7238]

Why would the use of Lithium increase so drastically when sodium is less expensive to work with long term? Sodium ion makes far more sense, especially in the northern half of the US where temps are low for extended periods of time. Someone has a lot of stock interests in Lithium related corporations perhaps?

[@i6power30]

We need to recycle used batteries, less mining, more recycling.

[@linuxxr]

all the complicated systems in ice cars is a problem made by greedy mfg's

[@funnnnnyman]

Goodbye Lithium, Hello Sodium battery

[@waywardgeologist2520]

If solid state sodium comes true, yes.

[@ezg8448]

​@@waywardgeologist2520- Sodium batteries already exist. However, no true solid state currently exists.

[@FrankGallagherr]

Tesla is the best car company ever

[@Aarav_Vispute]

Yep 10000000% agree

[@belowme4927]

SO MUCH SO THAT TESLA HAS MADE THOUSANDS OF CARS AND ARE STORING THEM UNTIL THEY ARE SOLD

[@highvoltage3479]

Tesla falls in the sub middle in quality and fit to finish

[@RyoshiKuraOka]

@@highvoltage3479 BS. I own a 2023 Model Y and a 2024 Model 3. The build quality is nearly the same as US made Mercedes Benz. (I've owned 6 of them).

[@robertfonovic3551]

​@@RyoshiKuraOkasure you have😅😅😅

[@johndavid9418]

Goodbye Oil, Hello Lithium.