Extroverted Feeling (Fe) is Selfish

[@justcallmejon22]

Thank you everyone for keeping the conversations cordial! I know it's a sensitive topic for some but I also feel like it's a topic that needs to be discussed further. I'm pinning a video that I created about how Blind Fe influences and shapes the INTJ. Check if out if you're interested because I've spent a lot of time analyzing and learning about Fe : kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5unZJtqZc-giKc. ❤

[@SmileSweetSunflower]

I see Fi as representing authenticity and Fe as embodying harmony. As an INFJ, I need to spend time alone to reflect and connect with what feels authentic to me. This process involves sorting through different perspectives, seeking not just harmony but also truth and clarity, especially in the realm of ethics. Prioritizing a group of friends over a loved one, to me, indicates a lack of understanding of the loved one's needs. However, it's important to remember that relationships involve mutual effort. I often need to step back to understand my own needs as well. Not sure if this helps, but I just wanted to share my thoughts.

[@BiblicallyHandle]

As an INFJ, I certainly see your concerns about Extroverted Feeling. We don’t always love our own function stack. I usually use my Fe to blend in and conceal my sensitive little Fi.

[@mikeylucifer9982]

Wow! This is exactly my conclusion! I have been in a relationship with an ENFJ and I have to say yes, he was very caring and would avoid conflicts and I felt like he was putting my needs first and he was always showering me with words and expressions that I could not naively believe. By time, I realized that those with Fe Dom are usually just using words to charm people and to avoid conflict and to feel good abotu themselves. In fact, they will always love the way they deem is right but never in the manner that you want. For example; he knows perfectly that I am all for actions rather words and yet when tough times hit I felt so alone because the person would comfort you but won't move from their comfort zone to stand by your side and really help you! yes we as intjs look selfish but when shit hits the fan we picture exactly how that person would feel and we will encourage them to think about themselves first and jump to reality in order to help them solve their problems by actions..... that was one of the main reasons that made me walk away from such relationship because I knew that I can never explain this for him! it will hurt him deeply and he will think that I am wrong and misjudging him! Yes Fe is crucial because in relationships harmony should be the goal but not at the expense of Fi!

[@justcallmejon22]

Fi should never be ignored ❤

[@artixi3291]

This is a topic that deserves a larger discussion from the MBTI community as a whole. I enjoy your insight on how we all use a mix of the 8 function stack and how Fe and Fi are two sides of the same coin. From my own observations, chronic people pleasers tend to be high Fi users who often fixate on a few specific projections (often targeted to specific people) they convince are selfless but are just to make the Fi user feel good about themselves. On the flip side, Fe users who have a similar issue lean more broad and less targeted with their pleasing behaviors. But what's odd is the intenal vs external reasoning is reversed. The Fe user may bake a whole class cupcakes for everyone, but they did so because they wanted cupcakes. A Fi user like to draw, but they gift a friend art because they just want to give their friend something. Fi is externally selfish but internally selfless as opposed to Fe which is externally selfless but internally self serving. That's not to say it's always this was (the other six functions can play a major part in how people pleasing manifests) but Fe, generally speaking, is performative. The example you used of the girlftiend dropping off her collegues sounds rather typical of an ExFJ/ExTP. It's interesting hearing she was an INFJ though since the IxFJs I've seen often have indecision around that type of service since it may interrupt their plans. Anecdotally, the IxFJs I know would only do such a thing if they were the only one being burdened. Unless, if course, they are unhealthy which could be a possible explanation. As a Fe user, what you mention about Fe knowing someone feels individualistically but not fully processing it is on point. Personally, I dont believe I can understand the raw emotion of betrayal; that word is something I hear a lot from Fi users. I dont have the same sort of feelings map and thus, don't entirely comprehend what that feels like. I view emotions zoomed out and on the scale of the human condition. So while the Fi user is highly subjective in their own emotional understanding, it's difficult for me to process the emotional weight the Fi user has. Logically I can see it, but we don't pull from the same emotional field Fi users do. I would also go against the grain and say Fi users are far more empathic in the emotional sense because they can pull from their own personal feelings to relate. While Fe can do this, it doesnt come as naturally. Fe will always prioritize the group and what balance works best for everyone involved--even if it goes against the Fe users personal beliefs. At least, these are the conclusions I've drawn. That Ti use knows how to convince us we're doing things for "the greater good" and we can get caught up in said logic. But all and all I would love to see a borader discussion on this as this nuance on Fe is so overlooked many forget how "fake" Fe can be.

[@justcallmejon22]

Thank you for the comment -- you've brought up a lot of interesting points that I never even considered! The point that stands out to me is when you mentioned that you're not sure if you fully understand the raw emotion of betrayal because I recently found out that some high Fe users can choose when to get offended. For an Fi user, we have ZERO control on how we feel, the only control we have is how we decide to react. It's always so interesting hearing about the other side. Fe sounds like a peaceful place 😂

[@feicchi]

Your cupcake example is really good about Fe users. I know somebody who is an ENFJ and is 24 years old. The more I observe her actions and know her as a person, my perspective is that it looks like she's doing acts of kindness in hopes of receiving it back which doesn't really resonate with me, an INTJ woman. It just doesn't feel genuine at all. She also has the tendency to make things about herself and how she feels that is too high-maintenance of a friend for me to keep.

[@ParteniaAjmaq]

I find it as misleading to call "feeling" function concerned firstly with emotions. It's rather focused on "what is liked" by self (FI) or others (FE) and after it could focus on emotions, if users can even imagine feelings. As FI AUX with anhedonia (and other psychological issues), I don't feel any feelings, other than fear, and still I am able to show sympathy and long term care, out of my memories bank, how disturbing it works to be deprived from care, and support, while I noticed FE to completely skip long term good of others, and implications, because empathy is very unstable cognitive process (focused only on here and now), and I noticed FE users are little more prone towards being self sufficien, and Your comment explained to me why.

[@madlynlithasya]

@@feicchiwow, i happen to know an ENFJ too who told me that i am very hard to read and that she’d like to be friends with people who will check on each other every so often just because she believes that’s how friendship works. i cut her off right away lol. she bought me some gifts for my birthday after that, thank goodness her birthday was around the same time so i bought her something too so i wouldn’t feel like i owe her anything.

[@t-man5196]

It's interesting that you mentioned about Fe users being internally selfish but externally selfless because I've noticed that they tend to be much more focused on external and surface level things compared to Fi users on average and I wonder if maybe it could be because they're paranoid about people exposing the dichotomy between how they act on the surface and how they feel/think/how they are inside

[@prschuster]

It's natural to feel good about others feeling good. It is it's own reward. We always choose to do what we want, or we wouldn't choose it in the first place. Every decision has a selfish component.

[@justcallmejon22]

💯

[@BiblicallyHandle]

Having high Fe is a lot of pressure sometimes because we constantly have an emotional balancing act going on in our heads. I need to be alone to get into Fi and as a result, usually never communicate who I really am to others.

[@justcallmejon22]

Your Fi shows to Fi users. But because it's an introverted function, we won't bring it up as a topic unless you want to or if we see it negatively affecting you. We always love to hear about someone's passion, values, and beliefs even if some of it goes against our own 😁

[@ChromaticTempest]

I've boiled down the selves to this: selfish=expectation, selfless=open to an experience. The reason I define it as such is b/c any time I have had expectations, I've had desire, hope, criticism at the ready and in that headspace, there is a lack of honest concern for other parties. There is only the concern for what I wanted, which is selfish. In selfless mode, I'm open to my kind gestures being rejected. I'm open to an experience no matter how it is interpreted or how any party faired out of a situation. In selfless mode, we stop holding to an idealistic state and instead allow for an organic blooming of circumstance. If we are able to strip desire out of it and only allow for life's organic flow can we find altruism. Too many people believe themselves smart. We aren't as smart as we hope. Life throws curveballs left and right to test us and determine if we are ready for the next stage of our development. The next stage is always less ego and more service to the common good.

[@justcallmejon22]

That's a good approach to looking at the difference. I still struggle however, when my Fi is offended. I really have no choice in whether something is offensive or not, I can only decide what to do about it in the moment and then take time later to process. 🙂

[@DeezyRYG]

I appreciate your balance in making sure that you gave a critically important perspective while also being tender and careful not to make it come off as "bashing." Thanks for sharing your experience and your perspective because it does add nuance to the ways in which I, an Fe Dom also operate and understanding how others could receive actions or thoughts of mine.

[@justcallmejon22]

Dude, I learned so much about Fe from our last convo that made me go back and forth whether this video is necessary. I lost a good amount of subscribers due to this video, but I think it's important that both sides of a story is represented 🙂

[@DeezyRYG]

@@justcallmejon22 Dang. Yeah I’m sorry about that, homie…but I know you’re trying your best here to both express authentically, and share in a way that doesn’t destroy or incite more “YEAH! We hate Fe!!” Mobs. It’s a hard line to walk, however. But I support you as long as you continue to keep on it.

[@amandapendley5352]

Agreed -- plus the Fe stare is something to note as well. I can usually tell someone has high Fe by their eye movements and their so-called "stare" in hopes that what they're saying is harmonizing group activity. It's such a double-edged sword of selfish plus selfless.

[@justcallmejon22]

And then you see the light fade from their eyes when you go against their Fe wishes 😂

[@kokonutonatree]

I personally agree, as an Fi user who grew up with Fe, it was really hard to be told to change how I feel just to match the group energy or their expectation of what I should be feeling. It felt like I couldn’t even be myself to the people I am close to. I couldn’t explain why this was so hard before, but I think I understand more from each perspective now and what I can handle. I’m so glad to come across your channel. Thank you :)

[@justcallmejon22]

I hope you found your tribe, my friend 🙂

[@mercyamparo561]

It's been awhile since I watched you Jon! This is such a good discussion... It's true if you're an INTJ it feels uncomfortable when people give us gifts (from INFJs other FE users), and when INFJs gift, they are very thoughtful. When INTJs receive gifts, it feels like were are now obliged to give it back, like we have to pay something back, with the same level of effort and thought. And this obligation arises from the thought that we didn't earn this gift in the first place. It feels burdening when people think they're doing it for our sake, because they don't. And that's what Fe users need to consider, when you assume you're doing it for other people, you have to know if that's what they really want and need, it's not for you to judge.

[@justcallmejon22]

Exactly. The other part of this video I didn't want to go over are the gifts that we don't like/enjoy. Then it makes it extra awkward that we have to pretend like we like the gift and still owe them something 😅

[@daphnecordelier]

As an INFJ this is very relatable but obviously there’s always some nuance, for example, if one person in a group takes offence to a joke I will feel very bad and embarassed even if I'm not the one who made the joke, I would never flat out tell someone that they should "lightened up" or that their feeling are invalid in any way, but I will definitely try to explain why the rest of us found it funny and why the person who told the joke didn't mean anything by it and didn't want to offended anyone. All that in the hope of getting back to a group harmony but also (and actually mostly) because this "disagreement" made me feel bad, so it's still rooted in selfishness, but it also doesn't mean that I don't care about how others are experiencing it (I care and it affects me negatively so I take action if that makes sense)

[@justcallmejon22]

Thank you. I don't expect anyone to change their habits after this video, I just want Fe users to accept that there is a selfish component to their action. I support being somewhat selfish 😅

[@hanskeejose5340]

So happy you posted! I always look forward to your videos. Wish you'd post more! Thanks Jon!

[@justcallmejon22]

Glad you're enjoying them! I'm trying to get back in the rhythm of posting more 😀

[@jaredvaughan1665]

Technically the Dominant function is a blindspot as we are too absorbed in it to actively reflect on it from a distance.

[@egyakojo3427]

as an infj i would trade Fe for Fi any day. I would rather have clear ideas on what works for me. Fi makes for better decision making. Fe makes for people pleasing.

[@Wooptyfregendoo]

Fellow INFJ here and I agree with you 100%!

[@justcallmejon22]

There are days where I wish I had Fe, but I've learned to accept myself for all my flaws. The grass aint always greener on the other side, it's green where you water it ✊

[@aerialpunk]

Oh trust me, Fi can make for people-pleasing BIG TIME. I'm and ENFP, and my sister is an IxFP, and we both got emotionally manipulated into some really unhealthy family patterns through our Fi. This is how it works: Fi is like, deep thinking about personal values, and is individualistic. You live your life by those values first and foremost. But for both of us (especially my sister), those values include caring about family, being loyal, being responsible... and our mom, who ended up going down a road of codependency, would leave us in situations where we could either do what she said, or intrude on those values. You love your mom, and you value your family, so you want to help them, don't you? You have to pick up the slack for her bad behaviour, because you care about being responsible, don't you? You love her and value your relationship, so you want her to be happy with you, don't you? So yeah, Fi can still lead to people-pleasing, poor boundaries etc in the right (or should I say wrong, lol) situations. Perhaps it's slightly harder to do it, but it's definitely a thing that happens.

[@Lordofthefliess]

I’ve noticed in the past with more unhealthy Fe users where they are basically codependent. The pattern is they put your emotional needs first and then later resent you for it.

[@justcallmejon22]

Yes! 💯

[@masterjj1]

I feel like you are describing Fe users that have Si, and not people that have it along with Ni. I don't see myself doing any of the examples you said but my sister, who I think is an ESFJ with Fe dominant, she does this sometimes and won't realize till I explain it to her

[@justcallmejon22]

That's a good call out. I've recently noticed a difference in Fe/Ni users and Fe/Ne users and I haven't reached a conclusion yet but there really is a different.

[@auramora]

Thanks for addressing the other side of Fe. This goes for all the functions: there are no inherently better/worse ones. Your content frequently helps me confront my blind spots. Knowing my defaults allows me to work on balancing them and understanding people who function differently, so thank you!

[@justcallmejon22]

I'm glad you saw my video that way! I frequently watch videos about Fe since it's my blind spot to do something similar. I hate having a weakness and also misunderstanding people so I try to balance myself as much as I can. I'm glad I'm not the only person that does that ✊

[@McD-j5r]

Well, I understood your point. Ok. As Fe, I had a situation that was so hard to decide. I thought about myself since there was no way not to gaslight one side but three people badly. My criteria was to think in 4D and 5D. This way, I could see that if I didn’t do anything, I would get karmically trapped. If I decided to work with the truth, I would lose everybody, but two would be liberated, and me too. If the scapegoat that initiated the mess were connected up there, she would have understood me-the other two. The third I even didn’t know. Well, I did it, and I lost the two. But besides things got messy and tragic here, I felt that my spiritual training was ok and that I passed my test. Afterward, I felt that things started to open up for me. The constraint of being involved with it and having gaslighted everyone and shamed them to the core is very uncomfortable in the simulation. But the doors up there opened up. They are (were) my most intimate ones and belong to my family. But I am not here to pat tribalism on the head. These are involutive forces. I chose my reason to have come down here because I got full of being trapped here. I feel free of this entrapment, and I have light in my path now. I ripped all my soul contracts and now move with joy and free. We must pay the guy on the boat, even if our final destiny is a perfect, loving, and shining place.

[@justcallmejon22]

That sounds like a rough situation to be in but I'm happy to hear that you feel liberated from your decision. Keep walking your truth, I promise that it usually leads you to a better place ✊

[@BibleBoy70X7]

Yes, dude! Ive been waiting for another video from you! You've become one of my favorite KZbinrs; you explain things so perfectly😂

[@justcallmejon22]

Thank you! Always nice to recieve positive feedback for my effort 😀

[@sindiswafiglan2848]

Interesting and well rounded look into the topic

[@justcallmejon22]

Thank you 🙏

[@Wooptyfregendoo]

Wow! I’m an INFJ😬, and this was really really really eye opening for me. Thank you!

[@justcallmejon22]

Glad it was helpful 🙂

[@adrienne9757]

I'm infp. I feel the same. I don't like getting things I feel like I don't deserve. But we are deserving. Everyone has something that they bring to the table. That's what your fe friends see. And they authentically want to give back to you.

[@justcallmejon22]

I agree that everyone is deserving but as a high Te user, I refuse to accept gifts until I earn it or if it makes sense. I don't know how to explain it besides, it just doesn't feel right. I guess this is one of those 'Fi doesn't need to make sense' moments 😅

[@adrienne9757]

@justcallmejon22 I understand where you're coming from. I use te and fi as well. Ask your friends what prompted them to give you the gifts lol, why do you deserve. I'm sure you'll get some good answers.

[@sandotter881]

I totally understand the need of Jon to justify himself for 5 minutes (about 30% of the video) 🤣 My mom is an ESFJ so I understand this to my core. Fe values collectivism so it tends to overlook the significance of individuals. In my opinion, each function serves to maintain the survival of the individual (their role in the tribe, how they take care of themselves, gathering resources, connecting with people, etc.). Therefore, no one is absolutely selfless or self-righteous, and yes, context matters the most.

[@amandacoelho9524]

Awesome video, as always! I always thought Fe to be very selfish even though they claim to be the most selfless of the functions.. All my rant about FJs is that they criticize TJs for being selfish but I care way more about how each person feels than they do. They don’t care about each individual, they’re up to overstepping one’s needs and feelings and values in order to make the “group” to be fine. Most times I see this approach as being cold and injust other than selfless.. Anyway, I’m definitely not a fan of Fe. 😂

[@justcallmejon22]

I completely understand. It always rubs me the wrong way when Fe users try to fix the problem instead of fixing the root of the problem. It doesn't make sense to me that they're unwilling to go through a short period of discomfort if it means never running into this issue ever again because we've all aligned on a solution. Not a huge fan either, but I still appreciate it 🙃

[@jocelynleung7480]

In your INFP video, you talked about how they have the tendency to suck all the energy out of the room with their emotional intensity. I believe you are now learning our ways, with this video 😊

[@justcallmejon22]

I hate that I do that...🙃

[@jocelynleung7480]

@@justcallmejon22 it’s a messy but necessary step to mature Fi 🤗

[@himani922]

Woww!! The line "Introverted feeling justified through extroverted lens" is so truee. You have just given me the right words of what i am constantly thinking of when i help people. I am sorry if i say anything wrong in further statements since my knowledge and awareness about these things is really low. I was constantly monitoring my intentions these days. I really feel guilty whenever i help people because majority of the times, i know that there is literally no benefit to me by helping some of my friends. But, I helped them .(because i got reminded of times when nobody helped me and i felt bad so i don not want others to suffer same things) At the end , i knew my friends would think high of me and i felt disgusting that no matter what i do there is always atleast 0.1 % of want for appreciation. And, I always somehow, find any logical or emotional benefit from helping others, whether it isn't really any benefit. That makes me want to help them more. I really am confused whether i use Fi or Fe. But, i know for sure, i have a very bad habit of wanting praise from others . Maybe, i will improve with time, experience and learning to say no.

[@justcallmejon22]

It's okay to want to be appreciated, it's part of being human. Regardless of whether you're Fi or Fe, I 1,000,000% support your decision to help out your friends. If they matter to you, then do what you feel is right, just make sure you don't forget to take care of yourself first ✊

[@himani922]

@@justcallmejon22 Thank you for your reply. Well... that's the thing, i help others keeping in mind that it doesn't harm me. 🤭😉

[@aplethoraofme2056]

Thank you for this video. You rock, don’t ever forget that!! ❤

[@justcallmejon22]

Thank you so much 🙂

[@epyon02alpha42]

Absolutely agree with you Jon. Fe can be a selfish function, but like you said in the video that doesn't necessarily make it a "bad" thing. Just a factor to be aware of when making decisions. I'll never refuse an Fe user giving me a gift unless I suspect they're doing it for a selfish reason and trying to play it off like they aren't. In this case it isn't the fact that the action has selfish ways the other party can benefit from it that is a problem, it's the insistence that those reasons aren't a factor that makes me look at them a little sideways. At the end of the day, just own that bit of selfishness. Again it doesn't mean that selfishness is a bad thing, and sometimes owning it will actually embolden your authenticity with people because they'll understand that you understand how an action/decision is benefitting you even if the primary intent is the benefit of another, and it will also help the people you trust most call out when you might be engaging in mental gymnastics to "explain" a selfish action in which you or the person performing the act benefitted more than they let on which can become a growing moment.

[@justcallmejon22]

I swear, you always explain things better than me lol. 100% on owning up to selfish acts makes a person more trustworthy, as counter-intuitive as that may sound 😅

[@shillout]

You did it, thank you! 🙏 This is exactly what I've been thinking since I was young, but now as I'm an adult, all I see about Fe is that it's soooo giving and loving, and we even give too much that it drains us.. Ofc it drains you when you constantly ignore your own Fi, even if it's a shadow function, it's still there. And I also believe that we CAN feel others Fi, but we choose to ignore it sometimes to engage in our Fe because it makes us feel good. Totally selfish. But then we'll feel bad about doing it later, so we get conflicted and try to explain it away with the logic of Fe being the "most beneficial".. Sometimes I feel like everything I say is coming from selfishness, and I believe it mostly is for all people. We communicate with others because it feels good, and we want them to acknowledge us and confirm our reality. We don't want to feel alone. This is a basic human instinct, to be alone means death, we couldn't survive unless we were part of a clan. It's OK to be selfish. Just remember to cherish the Fi of your closest one's and yourself first. Then you'll have your clan.

[@justcallmejon22]

Most Generals throughout history have vocally stated that they learned to admire their adversaries even though they're on different sides of the war. That's how I feel about Fe. I admire it so much although it goes against a lot of my own personal beliefs. I believe that Fe it is selfish, but I don't see selfishness as being bad unless it's unchecked. Thanks for recommending this topic on my previous video, it had a lot of influence on my decision to make it 🙃

[@Melimeverinde]

The parent function is our WORST function because it is the youngest (it develops in adolescence) plus it is also in a negative position, therefore very critical. Fe changes depending on the position, for INTPs it is inferior, which is therefore fear.

[@t-man5196]

I do agree that these specific behaviors do apply to Fe and they are unempathetic/selfish

[@kellikakes81]

I think most of my best friends -- including my mother -- are Fe 1st or 2nd (INFJs, and my mom ENFJ). I will say they are pretty very good at *caring* about my needs when i need them to. However -- as i said in another one of your videos -- sometimes (not most times) they would either overdo their Fe for me when I really don't need it OR (what I really don't like lol) use their Fe to then *use me* to do something for someone because they feel bad for the other person. For example of my latter point, every Christmas, a family member needs a ride to Christmas dinner. My mother (ENFJ) will VOLUNTEER ME to pick them up without asking me. I hate this sooooo much!!! My mother understands my point of view now, but now I'm still stuck as the designated taxi driver to most family events for this person just from that 1 time (this initially happened years ago). It's like my mom isn't seeing that sometimes she feels SO COMPELLED to help others, but at another's expense. She transfers that angst to me lol. Then she's free of it. I love my mother dearly and she's so giving, helpful, and thoughtful, but sometimes to the fault of others (and most recently at fault of herself 😞)

[@kellikakes81]

Oh gosh that was long! 😂

[@SecondFloor2311]

@@kellikakes81 I was JUST about to comment to 'this person' what an asshole thing that is to say, only to see that it was you talking about your own comment hahah. Glad I noticed in time xD And yeah omg volunteering someone else for anything like that, makes my skin crawl, sorry you've had to deal with that. Jeez, all these stories make me doubt my Fe-ness lol (sincerely, an infj)

[@justcallmejon22]

I resonate so much with being the taxi driver since my mom is also an Fe dom. I've learned to accept the role because that is her Fi value after we had a discussion about it, and once I realized that it was Fi, I was okay with it. It makes her happy that she can rely on me to get her friends/family to places safely and it makes me happy to be part of her happiness 🙂

[@aerialpunk]

Tbh though, I'm not convinced that's an Fe thing as much as it's an unhealthy-person thing. Like, my mom is ENFP as all heck, and she does a similar thing - sometimes she won't even tell you she's volunteered you for something until it's already happening, to make it harder for your to say no. (eg. her 1-hour shopping trip turns into a 5-hour day out, so that you have to change your plans so someone is there when the kids come home from school; or she picks you up for a coffee date and then spends the rest of the day taking you places where you can run in and do errands for her, and you're stuck with it cos she's the one driving). People forget that your personal Fi values can mean you value helping other people. She spent half our lives helping other people at our expense (long story short lol) but it was driven by her own values and desires; it was to our detriment because she was unhealthy and focused too much on her own desires. I think unhealthy Fe specifically, in my experience, tends to look like smoothing things over and staying superficial when really, you need to dig into it to get to the bottom of things and fix them... using group dynamics to manipulate people... ostracizing, excluding, or bullying people who don't fit in in some way... relying on stereotypes instead of getting to know people as individuals... ignoring the needs of the one cos it doesn't match up to the norm or the needs of the many... that sort of thing.

[@jenniferpoitier]

At whose piece are you maintaining… Very well said! That was extremely clear about the group dynamic

[@justcallmejon22]

💯

[@solidfever01]

Great video. Reminded me of Dave and Shan from Objective Personality's work. Extroverted functions meant to move the tribe can be extremely ignorant to the vibe of individuals.

[@justcallmejon22]

I admire OP so that's a great compliment! Thank you 😀

[@madlynlithasya]

i had an experience with a roommate which i think was an isfj. i told her to not wash my fav wood cutting board because i have my own way of washing it so it won’t get moldy, but she ended up washing it still and said “well its there so i just help you wash it, i was just trying to help you”. Gaaah i was livid. there’s a lot of other moments too where she thought she was doing things for everybody but it was just for her own benefit, because she didn’t actually think about what each individual person would actually want.

[@justcallmejon22]

It's so weird that I feel like I would get upset as well if I were in your shoes but I'm also aware how ridiculous that sounds that we get upset from someone helping us out with something that doesn't really seem to matter much in the grand scheme of things. I feel your pain ✊

[@madlynlithasya]

@@justcallmejon22 i was just mad because i clearly set a boundary, but she didn’t even consider it as one. i actually didn’t talk to her for the whole day after haha but that was the only time, cause then she finally understand the boundaries that were set

[@ginadellgrottaglia6897]

Bingo. I think this ALL the time with (unconscious) Fe-doms. I'm a senior INFJ and really finally getting this... almost embarrassed at my Fe sometimes.

[@justcallmejon22]

Fe is fantastic in certain situations, but the ones where it's not...it feels like being at a circus 😅

[@ginadellgrottaglia6897]

@@justcallmejon22 😁

[@farhankapadia6814]

Its something I've noticed as an INTP (currently in my mid 20s) which as you said, there is a selfish side to Fe and natural deficiencies that come with it. Whilst I do think Fe is about as important as any other function and for me personally, I have worked on it and tried to become healthier with it over time. Realising how much I do need it to balance myself in spite of how much my natural Ti-self can have its apprehension towards it sometimes. At its best and healthiest forms, it great at meeting people and individuals where they are at. But yeah, being a people pleasing can certainly be a double-edged sword. Knowing it inside & out myself. Its often does come down to a utilitarian dilemma. And the paradox of tolerance. It is logically impossible to please every single person with drastically different needs and values. Its a give and take sorta thing. Ofc, there can be the fakeness or even 2-faced aspect of it (depending on the Fe-user). To downright manipulation and gaslighting a social situatuon with the narcissm at its worst and most unhealthy form with constantly seeking validation and attaching its self-worth to others. This can come at the expense of their own self and being swallowed up by their own ego without even realising. Neglecting the truth, within the heart of the matter. Which can certainly be selfish. But as with anything in life, its not perfect and his its pros & cons.

[@justcallmejon22]

I appreciate the way that you described your experience and understanding of Fe, thank you 🙏

[@incognigo1670]

There’s NO such thing as a selfless person, because it’s Impossible to exert yourself without a personal motivation or agenda A TRUE selfless person would have no regard for his/her existence. As a result, they would simply die due to stagnation. What we humans call “selflessness” is when a person’s selfishness has a positive influence on the environment or people

[@Bittersweet-b4z]

Undeserved Gifts - oh absolutely, I didn't know that was a Te thing - I'm an INFP and I experience that quite strongly. It comes across as insincere flattery, as if I'm being softened up and made beholden. I have had a bad experience on a number of occasions where Fe dom or Aux will like me a certain amount and demand I like them back to the same degree even though we haven't properly clicked or gotten to know each other yet. As an Fi dom that drives me crazy that they want to subordinate my authenticity to their desire. They tend to take it personally when I don't acquiesce or accept the gift with the gusto they hoped - to give them that reaction that makes them feel good. It's not all Fe doms and Aux though, just a couple that make me quite cautious around them not to trust everything they say.

[@justcallmejon22]

It's such a weird feeling when things aren't authentic. It's like, I will like you if I do, but I can't fake it. Some Fe users tend to just like everyone and that doesn't make sense to me 🙃

[@rexraptor20883]

Great video Jon! A few questions: 1. I did recently see a video about someone saying that people with Fe/Se tend to crack a joke in some instances to maintain harmony, while Fe/Si users tend to take it quite seriously. What is your experience with these two dynamics? 2. Regarding 14:06, would you say that you feel guilty when you receive something you didn’t deserve? 3. Would you say Fi and Fe have their extensions of being selfish in personal ways?

[@justcallmejon22]

1) I think it depends more on how the person was raised than the cognitive function. 2) Guilty, annoyed, confused, etc. I don't want it if I don't deserve it. 3) Yup! I think every function has a selfish side to it.

[@rexraptor20883]

@justcallmejon22 “I don’t want it if I don’t deserve it.” Yeah, I feel you on that one. Thank you for the direct response, Jon!

[@medots6194]

The way I see it, Fi as a function is one that is capable of such deep unfathomable love it's awe-inspiring, but most of the time, said love is only brought out to those who manage to prove themselves worthy to it... Which is done through empathetic, kind Fe acts. It's like, Fi users are one of the most loving, kind people regardless of the position (I see you ENTJ and ESTJ soft bois) But it's a love reservoir that is reserved for only a teeny tiny group of people, the ride or die kind. but I can only imagine that such connections being formed is thanks to the Fe that brings people together. Fe may not be as deep loving as Fi, but it sure is the one that caters for this Fi to allow it to blossom into those very delightful bonds and relationships. Or such is the way I see it :) On another note, about how you feel about gifts, Jon... I can say I understand where you're coming from, I struggle with compliments myself and they always catch me off guard thanks to my Fi critic :') But at the same time... I'd say you can sense when they're coming from a genuine intention of love... Or do you not sense that? I shower my loved ones in words of affirmations about the traits I find most admirable in them, I can't really help it... It's like a deep urge to squeeze them with pure love. Can you elaborate more on how you receive it? And if so... how do you want your loved ones to show you love?

[@justcallmejon22]

I can sense when it's genuine, but there are certain times when it's both genuine and yet forced. The compliment doesn't make sense in context, so it just makes me feel uneasy. I don't question the authenticity of it, I question why it's even necessary if the context of the conversation shifted. Probably just my Ni overthinking per usual 🙃

[@medots6194]

@@justcallmejon22 Ah, I understand. I understand how it can geel weird and out of place sometimes. Though, if you sense the sincerity behind it, I wouldn't say it's forced just a sort of excess affection that's being given unexpectedly :')

[@fredrikdippel3664]

Omg..that date where you had to drop of her collegues - so disrespectful. I would have just made a u-turn and went back home alone again..😅 That's crazy. And also the example with the book. That is just pure evil to do something like that. I can't even grasp the idea..omg..

[@justcallmejon22]

It was my girlfriend of a few years 🙃

[@Elodie_N_INTJ_Analyzes]

I would have reacted the same way as you, and I would have been just as hurt. With an INTP, we discussed a lot about Fe, it serves their Fi unconsciously. Forcing others to feel the same way is selfish, we can't force someone to be happy or sad. Shaping someone into the ideal image they want into someone there are not, is selfish. Yes Fe is selfish, they may decide what is good for others without their autorisation, saying "it's for your own good", no it's for their own good, deciding at the place of others without asking if they are agree or not. I got many bad experiences related to Fe. Fe should considering/asking to each person, to each Fi. We all can use each other in a way or another, but certain immature persons do it a lot.

[@justcallmejon22]

Unchecked Fe is annoying but so it any other function. I hope you have better experience with Fe soon Elodie!

[@Elodie_N_INTJ_Analyzes]

@@justcallmejon22 Yes, I had many good experiences too ^^ Probably more or as much good Fe experiences than bad ones.

[@Melimeverinde]

In my opinion, not laughing at a joke while everyone else is having fun is more FI than FE because maybe he cares more about his values than about the harmony of the group.

[@jocelynleung7480]

As an Fi-dom I clicked on this video faster than lightning

[@justcallmejon22]

I hope I didn't dissapoint! I removed 10 mins of this video because boy was I unknowingly being mean until I rewatched the recording 😅

[@jocelynleung7480]

@@justcallmejon22 Never fear, the frustration comes through in your eyerolls and tone of voice 😆 Nonverbal communication says a lot

[@SohamHamsah]

Jon, maybe what you are trying to express here is the concept of "covert control". I am specifically referencing the concept as defined in the book Inner Bonding by Margaret Paul, page 62.

[@justcallmejon22]

Covert Control is definitely part of what I'm trying to express. The other part is that there's a selfish benefit for approaching life in such ways and that the community has to understanding that no function is without selfish intent.

[@LilacMist]

I do not know what the heck she was thinking by bringing those people along at the expense of your time, unless they were gonna get to the same venue and same time then I guess it would be more tolerable. I think based on a number of factors such as health levels, understanding, level of attentiveness, societal influences and personal experiences etc etc of the Fe user matters too. When I consider the feelings of others, I do take into account how they would feel if I took this particular action, and am more likely to side with what I think the situation needs. But never will I tell someone how to feel or take their matters into my own hands as it’s a disrespect to the person, I am aware of who I am affecting and what consequences that will bring me, hence I watch my words and actions very carefully. I have a somewhat similar experience with what you mentioned but with my Fi dom mom, who once told me to go outside to interact with our relatives because what would they think of her that her daughter is always cooped up in the room. I was crying at that point in time when forced against my wishes. She repeatedly told me to at least go out and say Hi, but I saw no point in doing something just for the sake of it. I have anxiety and general discomfort with interacting with them and there was nothing much we could talk about, if not we would have done so every year thirty years ago and we have zero interest in each other which is why I started hiding in the room whenever they came. Her words felt selfish to me because she put everyone’s feelings towards her above her own daughter’s feelings. But I did acknowledge to myself that she was not the only selfish one, me as well, by not doing what I found no sense in and being ignorant about how my mom would feel in front of her family, and her by not understanding her daughter’s actions and feelings. It’s also good for group minded people to be called out directly for not even being the least aware of how an individual feels. Fe can sometimes make someone the butt of the joke to make others laugh, I do it too but there is an awareness of which individual can take it lightly and what kind of jokes shouldn’t even be mentioned. Other less sensitive Fe people can miss that out. I also tend to think that INFJs are less heavy on the Fe, and have a slightly stronger Fi connection than it is supposed to be in 6th place. Again, due to a variety of reasons for example, the combination of NiFe and being introverted introverts, it really depends on the person. I am always watching the facial expressions and reactions of others to know how they’re feeling, I also register details about people and their thoughts and preferences. So if I know someone will probably not be too pleased if I did things this way then I’m inclined to not test those waters like the situation with your ex. Everything is thought of beforehand, including your convenience and comfort level. I think the society we’re brought up in also plays a part in this. For example I’m from Singapore, and we’re largely dominant in introversion, more sensitive and not used to telling others what to feel. So it feels like in foreign countries this happens more frequently as people like to have fun and engage in group liveliness. I liked this video because as a supposed Fe user, innately I am not as nice like people portray me to be. There’s a lot of putting on a front or having hidden negative feelings, the inability to be my true self … Few talk about Fe having a selfish side and I always feel odd that they’re viewed as flawless. I have met selfish Fi people and selfless ones, and to me Fe and Fi seem pretty similar in some areas. Fi is more direct and at times hurtful due to authenticity, whereas Fe may say nice things to keep the peace but instead have far worse thoughts and feelings that isn’t communicated. With Fi, what you see on the outside is what reflects the inside. With Fe, most people may never get to see the real inside for fear of others discovering who they truly are, they’re always found with a mask on whereas Fi never needs theirs.

[@justcallmejon22]

I love your last paragraph and it makes me happy when Fe users take accountability for their feelings and actions; You sound like you're very self-aware. America is definitely a more extroverted country so Fe is valued a bit higher here

[@PaleGhost69]

I knew a video was in the pipeline. The algorithm kept pushing your videos today. Fe is the reason we have an unalive hotline instead of actually fixing the problems that cause people to become that way.

[@justcallmejon22]

I don't know if I agree with that last statement but thanks for letting me know how youtube works from the viewers end. It's interesting that my older videos get pushed by uploading a new video, good to know!

[@_Thunderball_]

Fe has nothing to do with emotions. It's not about others feeling good, it's about group harmony. And the higher Fe is in the stack more it becomes about percieved group harmony, not actual one. For example the best way to achieve group harmony (solve conflict) is to remove one of the conflict parties from the group, which seems to be the preferred solution for most high Fe people. The Fe person in your examples doesnt care about the feelings of the person that is hurt. They are probably not even aware of what they're feeling. They're aware that the affected person is disrupting the group dynamic, and their goal is to maintain the group dynamic and prevent it from happening in the future, which would make them feel good. People are selfish. All of us. All of our motivation comes from the fact that we want ourselves to feel good, the only difference is that different things make different people feel good. On gifts in general: I personally view all gifts as manipulation. Yes, the person might feel that they're doing it for the person that's recieving the gift but in reality it's just a way to earn "brownie points" with the other person.

[@justcallmejon22]

That's definitely one way of viewing the topic. I think it's funny that you said 'Fe has nothing to do with emotions' and then followed it with 'It's about group harmony'. Group harmony derives from emotions 😁

[@_Thunderball_]

@@justcallmejon22 Why? What does group harmony have to do with individual's emotions? Group harmony doesnt mean pleasing everyone's feelings, it means no one sticking out and ruining "the vibe". It's the same with Te (that's a video idea btw) - a lot of Ti users criticize Te users for the lack of logic when it comes to building teamwork and efficiency. We're doing the same here but in Fi vs Fe. They want Ti to be applied in a group setting, we want Fi to be applied in a group setting but those are different things and we're just not understanding each other because of our cognitive differences.

[@McD-j5r]

The ego will never understand the Ni. Much less the auxiliary that works for it: the Fe works for the Ni. when you are judging a very restricted inner dialog with invisible forces you already got into a trap because you will never know what is private and sacred to any individual. The Nis were born with their feet in the ski. They look to be walking around upside down 🙃. Their purpose in here is very clear to them very early in their lives. So, judging a secondary cognitive function behavior when serving their primary Ni cognitive function is very intangible matter. The same for the Te functions serving as secondary function to the Ni primary function. The Ni person has a phone direct red line phone with the High and behaves like the antena (Ni) is advising. You can label Him as your Higher Self, as your Anima/Animus or God or more, but the Nis are in service, not of the material world. They are the sigma people.

[@justcallmejon22]

💯

[@adelinamarice5887]

Omg!!! I love you discuss this. Yes I hate when xNFJ devalue their loved ones for the sake of Fe. My sister, my boyfriand n my bff BETRAYED me by devaluing me for their Fe

[@Elodie_N_INTJ_Analyzes]

We noticed that too with an INTP friend, when ESFJ devalue/ignore their family Si, for others Fe. Or ENTJ at party, Te talking to other, ignoring their love one Fi. I am happy to have self/tribe functions in middle/balanced.

[@adelinamarice5887]

@@Elodie_N_INTJ_Analyzes yes Te betray their loved ones while working on their goals. Wow you just opened my eyes. Yes I do that too. I betrayed them too

[@justcallmejon22]

I understand the feeling, you're not alone in the feeling of betrayal ✊

[@mokari9268]

Bro, can you imagine my life being blind to TE... very hard and confusing lol Isolating, actually. Sorry, I'm learning and wish I had been born an Fi user only because I now understand the importance of healthy boundaries and knowing oneself.... Remember it's not just Fe, it's tied to Ti. Anyway we are very different.

[@justcallmejon22]

I don't fully understand the struggle but I'm aware of how difficult it is to be blind Te. What I've done to compensate for my blind Fe is surround myself with high Fe users and learn to trust their feedback in certain situations. Personally, life is difficult being blind Fe because I hate hurting the people I care about for being so blunt, so I hope you find some comfort in knowing that I also do feel like the grass is greener on the other side sometimes 🙏

[@PsychologyoftheBrain]

The thing is. Fe looks alot like Te. That is it is emotional efficiency. But it is also getting energy from other people’s emotions good or bad. If i see you happy, i become happy. If i see you sad i will become sad, and will do everything to make you better. However, as ENTP, that also means just like Te, if you can’t be arsed to fix your problems, or repeatedly make me feel bad, because you feel bad yourself, i will drop you as an asset. It is not selfish anymore than how te, fi, and ti aren’t selfish, but it is also not ‘doing good’. In fact, i can lie like no other, or dance around the truth but this can be two reasons. Either i protect you, or you have no right to know the truth, you won’t be able to understand the truth, or I don’t know the truth (fi isn’t that high). additionally i tried to explain it earlier but explaining doesn’t seem to do it. Fe Ne work crazily together for lying, and telling the truth for that matter. Reading people’s faces and real time telling the story that is strategically viable in the situation. Directing conversation away from conflict. It is very political. It is not lying, but telling the truth what people want to hear. Fe is very reflective of the other persons biases. To avoid conflict is to cause bigger conflict in the future. That is Fe. The counterintuitive thing for me, is to have relations, i would have to risk losing relationships. To have functioning relationships, you need boundaries. When you only try to make someone happy, you guarantee failure

[@PsychologyoftheBrain]

The thing is, what people don’t get, is that you are describing the chicken and egg when you have fi and fe. Fi feeds into Fe and vice versa. Anyone who always says yes is just as bad as anyone who always says no. You need to balance these two, otherwise you become pathologically lying. And always saying no isn’t any better. That is the same thing. You have to sometimes be selfless, and sometimes be selfish. You can pretend not to, but you won’t succeed .

[@PsychologyoftheBrain]

A really good example of Fe is Mark Rutte. He is prime minister of the Netherlands and becoming head of Nato. Yet he is always strategically ambiguous on what he really stands for. That is, he rarely really stands for anything. That is his asset, and his weakness.

[@PsychologyoftheBrain]

Also, what therefore really is important is Ti. Funnily enough, what i really stand for as Fe user, is logic and is learning. Fe protects Ti. It is almost like being an arbiter of discourse. Ti can make a stance, but usually, the masses are right, or at least the least wrong

[@Melimeverinde]

Infjs never works for intjs they are good just as friends for you. Not all the Fe users are the same.

[@RaidenShogun..]

I think that infj example you gave is a good one. I have met an infj with a group of friends and she asked me if her friends could stand in the line in front of me (we were queuing). To me that sounded selfish. As an Fi user, through my Fi lens, I thought she values her friends because they are nice people with similar values. That makes sense to me. But I’m not sure what it would look like through Fe lens. I have an Isfp classmate in my class and she’s Fi but I saw her help her friend when they don’t know how to do a question. Fi really isn’t selfish. Through my Fi lens, Fi users help people if they think the person is worth their time helping. If it’s not, Fi users may not. I too find Fe weird and unnatural, because my Fe is the last four out of the 8 cognitive functions. I have a question. Are you aware of the problems Fe blindspot gave you? (It’s a blindspot and you shouldn’t know what it causes but other people in life might point it out so I’m curious to know)

[@justcallmejon22]

I'm beginning to think that Fe users confuse 'Harmony' with 'Values' but that's more of an impression that I won't die on a hill on. I agree, Fi user have tons of moments where we're selfless, it doesn't make sense for us to make a big deal out of it. I'm going to pin the video I created about how having blind Fe shapes the INTJ and influences our daily behavior. Check it out, it was a fun video to make 😁

[@AnneHynynen]

What about Fe users who live strongly in their feelings, but don't reflect? These people are chaotic beyond imagination! They just don't self-reflect, at all. They don't think about their feelings or analyze them. They don't think how their behavior hurts others. These are the most selfish people I know. I as an INTJ, feel that I'm actually very empathetic and I care about people deeply. Fi is actually a good thing. I pause and use my Ni and actually think about what I'm going to say to a person who is hurting or how can I help them the best way. Then I use Fe to communicate my thoughts and empathy towards this person. I think that this side of things needs to be discussed more. And there are of course differences between individuals and all INTJs can learn to develop their Fe, if they want to. It's all up to you!

[@justcallmejon22]

I agree 💯

[@SecondFloor2311]

Honestly, I'm shocked to hear about how some people use their Fe in this video, damn. I have definitely done or said things I maybe shouldn't have in the past, I'm also getting past my issues with Fi because of a few not-yet-matured Fi users in my life... but to be like "lighten up dude" supposedly for the sake of (the harmony of) the group? Ew, never. That's not what true harmony is anyway. Lending out someone's book just because you never see them read it? I'd be horrified if I heard someone did that. Is most of this even about (albeit immature) Fe anymore? That's just the simple concept of "it ain't your stuff so ask permission please" to me lol. You shouldn't even have to 'justify' why the thing is important to you, it's yours, the (emotional) value only adds to it. Btw this is no criticism to you Jon or the way you presented this, I guess I'm just thinking out loud trying to understand this. What is Fe about not caring for your partner's needs even when they explicitly stated them and choosing colleagues over you? That person just sounds toxic and indeed, selfish. I need to ponder this subject a little more perhaps >< also definitely agree that any good deed is inherently selfish, but it doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing, that depends, yeah :p p.s. genuine question, when would you see gift-giving as acceptable, like under what circumstances? What would the situation require? (or things like compliments or affection, whatever examples you gave) edit: INFJ btw

[@fredrikdippel3664]

I was also shocked but I have also been on the receiving end of similar selfish/rude/arrogant Fe behaviour. Very immature behaviour.

[@justcallmejon22]

Please, keep expressing your thoughts, this is a safe space for discussions! I ran into the same issue with all the IXFJs that I've dated and it's that I have blind Fe and they have blind Te. I'm not sure if the issue is maturity but more along the lines of just being blind to functions that we both value highly. Most Fi users don't expect Fe users to be perfect in any way (that actually goes against what Fi values which is uniqueness which includes personal flaws), but we do expect you to listen to us when we've expressed that our values are being tested. In regards to gift giving, as long as it feels authentic, then it's welcomed. I would love a magnet if you went traveling and it reminded you of me, I would love if you bought me coffee because you noticed that I was having a bad day, and of course birthdays. The keyword here is that it has to be authentic...from the perspective of the INTJ 😅

[@aerialpunk]

I dunno, I both agree and disagree. You're right that anyone can be selfish, and most of the time there's some small element of self-gratification in doing any good deed. But personally, I think most people in the MBTI arena don't understand Fe and Fi very well, to make it about being selfish or not. Even in the way you framed it, which was close but not quite right imo. I think Fe is about valuing the group (or the majority, as in the example you gave with the joke), while Fi is about individuals. Imo, this is why it gets perceived as Fe=unselfish while Fi=selfish - people thing that valuing the group means valuing others, while the individual we Fi-users all start with tends to be ourselves, haha and we are willing to compromise group harmony and relationships if something violates our values badly enough. But the thing is, that it's not about being selfish or caring about others at all. Like, unbalanced Fi might be very rigid in understanding how others see things, it can cause conflict where Fi values don't line up with the group, or maybe they'll be so stuck on their values that it damages relationships unnecessarily. But Fe is definitely not innocent here either - unbalanced Fe will be more likely to exclude people who are different (in whatever way matters to them), stereotype people, use group dynamics to manipulate people, or end up like lemmings running off a cliffside cos they're all too busy going with the group. Even in a more benign setting, they're prone to trying to superficially smooth over issues instead of truly dealing with them. When unhealthy Fe-types wield group dynamics as a weapon, belittle the outsider, stereotype people, etc... is that "caring for others"? Of course not. And likewise, an Fi-user can highly value things like caring for family or the downtrodden, wanting to be responsible or act with integrity towards others, and that can lead to them putting others first and caring for others. Likewise, re: authenticity, a healthy Fi-user will care about whether another person *really* wants to do something, and will be hesitant to make them do something if they think that person might not truly be into it - we don't want them to be fake or to sacrifice their own values and interests just for us. An unhealth Fe-user might not care about that so much, as long as the majority is happy, or there's some semblance of harmony, or maybe even they don't care at all if I hate doing something they like, so long as they feel good that I'm doing something with them. So it's really not about caring for others vs self like, at all. And like you said, for Fe-users, focusing on dynamics and relationships like this their value, and their authenticity. So maybe framing it as groups vs individuals might be a more useful way of thinking of it. I also don't like this idea that as Fi-users, we're not the same people all the time, or that there's no logic to it. Like yeah, we do constantly weigh up new information against our currently-held values. But that'd doesn't mean we change like the seasons or that it's all based on feelings and not logic. Quite the opposite, in my experience - myself and other Fi-users I know, we often think through our values quite deeply and logically, and once we have made a solid decision on a given thing, it's actually quite hard to change it because new information and experiences have to go toe-to-toe with the logic we used to solidify core values in the first place. Fence-sitting or changing a lot tends to be reserved for things we haven't spent a lot of time thinking about or that we don't overly care about, not for the kinds of values we'd sacrifice something like a relationship or group harmony over (which is what tends to be what gets perceived as selfish and what tends to define Fi). But it seems to me that virtually everyone does this to some degree; maybe Fi-users are just a little more thoughtful about it because of the introverted nature of it (since introversion tends to go deep, vs extroversion going broad). I imagine that would make one more prone to re-evaluating values all the time.

[@justcallmejon22]

Thanks for the thought-out comment! I agree with most of what you said, especially the part about the unhealthy side of Fe/Fi. I don't think framing it as groups vs individuals is quite right because Fe users still have Fe values alone, and Fi users still have Fi values when in a group. I believe that it is framed correctly in specific situations but there are more situations that we're missing which that framing doesn't make sense to follow. In regards to Fi, of course, there's logic because Fi can't exist without Te. Comparatively to our Ti breathers who are mostly logic-focused, we don't make sense and that's the point I'm getting at.

[@jenniferpoitier]

I felt like the video was excellent until the very end where you kept making a point over and over about how you could’ve bashed us but you didn’t. Up until then I saw all your points were very valuable. #BaneOfExistence? It goes both way.

[@kellikakes81]

I understand how you could've received it (his ending), and your feelings are valid, but what was so wrong at him expressing how Fe felt TO HIM (honestly asking, not arguing lol)? He actually used his under-developed Fe (which took much effort for a blindspot i suppose) to make sure Fe users didnt feel offended by not bashing. You can't expect him to do an Fe thing perfectly if he doesnt have it perfectly. I am a Fi user, so naturally i love hearing the authentic reasons/feelings behind any and everything, even if it hurts (i would also then ask a ton of follow up questions as well in order to fully understand). But I'm sure he didnt say that to intentionally hurt anyone. And why not give him props for NOT saying it? Remember, we ALL have a cognitive function that reflects very similar feelings/ thoughts. Fe just so happened to be his.

[@justcallmejon22]

I appreciate the honest feedback! You have the right to feel however about what I said and I'm not going to try to deny you of that. I did make a longer video explaining how having blind Fe shapes the INTJ. It might provide more context in why I feel the way I do, if you care to learn more. Aside from that, I just appreciate the comment 🙂

[@CW91]

The examples you given, about poking fun at a member of the group and about giving a ride to "outsider" colleagues, is just plain toxic behavior. If a deed is going to be done, it shouldn't be at the expense of a pawn. The opposite side also applies to Fi users, where they may benefit only very particular individual at the expense of the whole group. Again, that is unhealthy behavior.

[@justcallmejon22]

Agreed. We were both young and dumb, we had a lot of growing up to do 🙂

[@jaredvaughan1665]

Socionics Model G shows INTJ puts more effort into Fe than Fi. Which would apply here if if you are correctly typed. Fe is used for Ni to get ahead. However, I think you could be an ENFJ. Why? Teaching is labor-intensive Fe. And you use a lot of Fe here. And you originally typed ENFJ. How could an ENFJ mistype as INTJ? Socionics Model G shows that ENFJ (EIE) progresses by making contact with Ni, Te, Ne, Ti to look like their ENTP (ILE) Benefactor in public and INTJ (ILI) Supervisee in private. So off the stage amongst close friends, ENFJ behaves like an INTJ. Also, Socionics shows, unlike ESFJ, ENFJ has -Fe. Which is not warm and fuzzy but more jolts people who go off the right Ni course. Also: ENFJ (EIE) and ISTJ (LSI) have Socionics Duality. One can only see this by knowing about the mbti introverted sensing cognitive stack error. ------------------------------------ 12 of the 16 mbti and Socionics types have the exact same first 2 functions once you do a J and P switch ONLY for the introverted intuitives. But the 4 introverted sensors have different first 2 functions between mbti and Socionics. That is because of the mbti introverted sensing cognitive stack error. Observation & Socionics proves ALL mbti-SJs lead with a rational judging function. ALL mbti-SPs lead with irrational sensing. Including the introverts!!! ---------‐-----‐‐------------‐------------- Mbti-ISFJ (ESI) leads with correctly defined FiSe = Relations fortified by Se acts of service. Mbti-ISTJ (LSI) leads with correctly defined TiSe = Logical rules enforced in the Se world ✏️ 📝 Mbti-ISTP (SLI) leads with correctly defined SiTe = Sensory pragmatism 🔨 🛠 🪛 🔧 Mbti-ISFP (SEI) leads with correctly defined SiFe = Sensory mood 💋 💄 ------------------------------------------ How did the mbti introverted sensing cognitive stack error originate? Answer: Isabelle Briggs Myers called herself an INFP when she led with a judging function of Fi. Socionics corrects this by simply referring to INFP as INFj. Easy fix. However, Myers made an even bigger mistake by assuming that because her "INFP" leads with Fi, so too does her ACTUAL perceiving ISFP type lead with Fi. Which makes no logical sense. As ISFP, unlike INFP, is an ACTUAL perceiver. Socionics refers to ISFP as ISFp. But only Socionics correctly shows that ISFP leads with correctly defined SiFe. And that ALL SPs actually lead with a correctly defined sensing perceiving function, and ALL SJs lead with a correctly defined judging function. Including the introverts.

[@justcallmejon22]

Ok