Ezra Klein Speaks Frankly About Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and Where Democrats Went Wrong

[@SimonM7TV]

Proud of the comments section largely rejecting this elitist blindspot nonsense.

[@Racheroni05]

I may have an unpopular opinion, but I don’t care for Ezra’s analysis. I don’t think he understands how fed up the working class is with the economic struggles in this country. Unaffordable healthcare and medicines, wages not keeping up with inflation, expensive college and housing and the list goes on. Fixing those issues would significantly improve the quality of life in our country. We live in the richest country, but the wealth gap is so large and crushing. Corporations and the wealthy could pay their fair share in taxes like the rest of us so that we could have less financial struggles. People are fed up.

[@maryalicecoleman4661]

That’s what Harris promised to fix. It’s not an over night fix but that was her platform. Why didn’t republicans hear it? Because they’ve been programmed to never to listen to her or the evil radical Dems.

[@MarkSav1]

All of these things are far from what Trump’s going to help fix; his 2018 tax bill cut taxes for the rich. This is the problem, the dems need to get back to healthcare, raising the minimum wage, building housing, reducing inequality. Didn’t hear any of this except a bit on housing.

[@nicholasrova3698]

I keep reading similar things, but don't understand why people don't just try listening to the other side instead? It's like you're all staring at a giant machine that hasn't worked for a long time, but still believing the salesman that sold you the machine in the first place.

[@anthill1510]

@@nicholasrova3698 Trumps policies will be worse for the working class, so we have to work on getting the dems on track.

[@EdwardDollar-r2u]

This. You're right on. Though the reason why Ezra isn't saying any of this is not because he doesn't understand it; it's because he has a vested financial interest in maintaining the neoliberal status quo. He's complicit in propagating the elites' disingenuous talking points and blame-it-on-the-progressives smokescreen.

[@mayra3277]

I'm not even American, but having an ad for tailored suits in an episode which talks about Democrats losing touch with working class voters feels a little ironic.

[@EggAtix]

Wow this is such a good point hahahaha

[@Danheron2]

🤣 lowkey perfect

[@reading1713]

It was hilarious 🤣 10% off a 400 dollar suit incredible 😅

[@guzsteve]

This show is for people in the same bubble as Jon and Ezra. They don't give a damn about the working class.

[@catsupchutney]

Imagine a Democratic pundit podcast sponsored by NASCAR or Snap On Tools. Maybe the absurdity of that hints at an explanation.

[@RyanWattersRyanWatters]

“The Democratic Party hasn’t abandoned the working class; they’ve just lost touch.” - Two out-of-touch Democrats doing everything they can to avoid a material analysis of their party’s recent failure

[@rosemaryalles6043]

Yes.

[@andreapoulieva6717]

Care to elaborate ? That's interesting, but quite vague.

[@Hinderz]

Nobody’s willing to say “peoples’ lives and options for their lives, particularly based on when they were born, are getting worse and we will aggressively fix that trend”

[@delta5297]

@@Hinderz Maybe if it weren't for those partisan obstructionist Republicans, Biden could have and would have done more?

[@PF-RULES]

The Democrats have lost the working class voters. Bernie Sanders policy platform appeals to more voters. The Democrat Head Office always installs a patsy who they can control. Bernie should have ran in 2016. They don't want to upset their rich donors, or the NY Times. That's the bottom line. And the Democrats keep making the same mistakes. Israel, transgender, increased debt, etc.

[@EkonClass]

This channel is a real meeting of the minds! How can some people be so wrong, so often and still be taken seriously is beyond me.

[@Bicycle_Pam]

Just stop listening. Stop your personal misery.

[@EkonClass]

@@Bicycle_Pam You're probably right. I stumbled on this channel by accident and took it upon myself to go on some rant. Every voice should be heard, as I'm sure you'd agree. But me wasting precious time on something like this is sort of absurd, obviously.

[@Sixty_Five_Pronghorn]

@@Bicycle_Pam Personally, I like to listen to what people who are different from me think. Part of the reason why the democrats lost was because of how contemptuous they were towards people who didn't wholeheartedly agree with them. Their "holier than thou" stance pushed a ton of independent voters away from the democratic party, including myself.

[@markfcoble]

They helped elect Trump! Clueless.

[@Buttertoast1103]

Fucking lol

[@PrinceAntony989]

I find it weird that the solutions discussed here to every electoral problem is, “Dems need better messaging”. I think the problem is that their coalition is too broad-encompassing working people and wealthy interests, moderate Republicans and progressives. They can’t have a vision that both fights for working people and won’t alienate the moderates and wealthy donors. They can’t be direct and simple in their policy prescriptions while appealing to liberal podcasters’ desire for “nuance” That is why the messaging is inauthentic: there’s no consistent vision informing it.

[@WanderingRobotStudio]

Nailed it.

[@riseandfall...]

They don’t want to give up their billionaire donors

[@d.Avid.p]

In the post-Citizens-United world, a party without wealthy donors is not competitive.

[@seanmurphy9776]

We have a message that worked in the past and it is still incomplete. Democrats should rally around them, wealthy interests be damned. The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries, or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation; The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living; The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad; The right of every family to a decent home; The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health; The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident and unemployment; The right to a good education. -FDR in 1944 with the Second Bill of Rights

[@redpigeons]

They even have both Jews and Muslims

[@lclowe962]

Ezra, I listen to you religiously but had to turn this off. I cannot believe how out of touch you both are. If you really want to understand the frustration of voters under 40 you should both spend a few months trying to live on 25 dollars an hour. Join my friend and I on our weekly walks worried about our children in their 30s who both have good jobs but cannot afford a decent 1 bedroom apartment. Inflation is not the same as cost of living. Our children are depressed and broke. The elephant in the room is the insane cost of housing. We all voted for Biden/Harris but are very dissapointed with them. And you.

[@shayuscalgar1462]

“Whaah whaaah eggs are 7 bucks a dollar”

[@EdwardDollar-r2u]

Yeah, this was a horribly out-of-touch discussion. Dems will keep losing if this is the lesson they take away from this election.

[@fw5532]

They took too long to discuss that issue. But listen from 01:04:00. This was definitely a major issue. You had legacy media and Jerome Powell talking about inflation like everything is fine - and the election results told a different story.

[@direwolf6234]

@@shayuscalgar1462 what's a .. 'bucks a dollar' .. ?? or is it a dozen ??

[@direwolf6234]

yes these pod guys and the bulwark people are all very well to do born on 3rd base types with no minorities on staff .. parents have money attended private schools and elite colleges with no debt .. then parlay that into big government jobs .. clearly not the common experience ...

[@beavis4play]

dems don't need better "messaging" - they need policy that HELPS the US - not HURTS it. these 2 are perfect examples with out-of-touch dems.

[@zackcrow1776]

Man a lot of Bernie hate on this one. Tell us more about how we genuinely like the wrong people and should be more like Bill Clinton and Liz Cheney

[@technokicksyourass]

Bill Clinton won 2 terms in office. He was a winner. If you want to lose.. put forward Sanders.

[@EllieShockley]

Um... Ezra literally critiques the Liz Cheney thing?

[@arthurmorgan332]

Bernie is a red herring. He couldn't even beat Kamala in his own state you want to think he was going to beat Trump?! Biden unlike Bernie actually worked with both parties to pass bills that help the working class. Democrats are just not good at messaging. What Dems need to start doing now is to build their own alt-media propaganda networks like what Republicans have built over the last two decades and while at it, they should also need to search for their own charismatic liar.

[@EggAtix]

This is the only episode where I have said "Oh fuck off" to the screen. Its really worrying that they are sitting there and practicing apologetics for their terrible political strategy. If the democratic party doesn't stop blaming everyone else for their failures, and stop condescending to the public by telling telling them their grievances aren't real and their opinions are wrong, they are never going to pull themselves out of the gutter.

[@tdawg30]

Pretty much this. Until the NYT crowd stops being condescending, dems are never winning another election this decade.

[@marietherese6032]

I never heard the Dems mention the working class. The whole narrative was about the middle class and the aspiration of owning your own business. From an outsider's view (Australian) I kept wondering when the Dems would speak to the people who just wan to go to a safe workplace, feed their families and retire with a safety net. Not everyone shares the 'dream' of running a business and I saw a lot of disrespect for the 9 to 5ers by not speaking to them in a way which Biden clearly had when he stood on a picket line.

[@consciouspragmatist2778]

I have to agree with you. I felt the same. With a 100 day campaign, I thought maybe they bet on reaching who they felt were most likely voters and those who understand the significance of the middle class in stable societies.

[@chrisvoss451]

9 to 5 ers are the middle class

[@tmorganriley]

To clarify: Do Australians use "middle class" in the British sense or American sense? The British English sense equates more in American English to our "Upper Middle Class", (or in some online circles lately, "PMC" or "professional managerial class"). "Middle class" in the American sense equates more to "neither wealthy nor poor". A broad range of steadily-employed working class, skilled laborers, modest small business owners, and underling professionals; including both wage earners and salaried. Basically: not always living paycheck to paycheck, and therefore capable of the freedom to make longer-term life planning, but still very much having to work for a living. Put another way, we (USA) dont make the distinction between "working class" from "middle class", rather the former significantly overlaps the later. (The other half of the "working class" being what we would call the "working poor", including many unskilled laborers, minimum-wage earners, the unsteadily-employed, and the chronically unemployed, each of which may or may not be privy to some form of government-assistance programs.)

[@harriiyo]

is the middle class NOT the working class?

[@consciouspragmatist2778]

Agreed. They had to go for what they felt was low hanging fruit with such a condensed time frame. They were put in a very challenging position.

[@SystemFailing]

Love both of y’all but you’re just not in touch with the working class. That’s folks like me. I’m part of the 60% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck. You’re right that the messaging needs to improve, but the actual policy needs to improve, too.

[@Mrchair905]

No no no, actually the economy is great and you just need Biden or a senator to actually tell you that everything is ok. 🙃

[@nicholasrova3698]

America agrees. That's why they voted Trump.

[@jokingbird]

​@@Mrchair905 and who is trying to torpedo every pro working class bill that the democrats are trying to pass? They didn't get credit at all for the good things they did and improving the situation compared to the Trump era yet the voters apparently do not value that and chose something that didn't already work in the past so they can't really win, can they ^^?

[@validatedclassified2564]

What policy would you like to see?

[@williamcastonzo138]

I have definitely lived paycheck to paycheck in my life, so I know what that's like. But I have never understood what government policies would directly fix that situation other than less taxes taken out of the paycheck. Which when I actually think about government, sounds good in theory but doesn't work in practice (bc the only things that are ever cut by taxes is funding for things like food stamps, education and the EPA, as opposed to buying fewer battleships and putting an entire Virginia town out of work). Like, the government can (and in my opinion should) increase the minimum wage, mandate a minimum of paid leave/vacation, install price controls in certain industries, hell, nationalize other industries to cap price and increase availability. But it always seems like a huge swath of the electorate hates all of those things, while (because?) corporate interests essentially threaten that if you do any of it, they will lay people off and raise prices.

[@salspain678]

As much as I appreciate this podcast and Ezra's viewpoints more often then not, I love how this conversation was held between two Democrat elites (education wise, social circles, etc) as opposed to including blue collar and/or high school educated Democrats who didn't show up for this election. You're doing it wrong. This is why we lost. 🤦‍♂️

[@nicholasrova3698]

Try out the other side then, we're not so bad, and we won't look down on you.

[@Jade.sasesisosu]

it may not be a bad idea, to have blue collar or ppl who r not liberal join the conversation actually

[@SomeThingOrMaybeAnother]

@@Jade.sasesisosu To the left of "liberal", not to the right.

[@InaMarcus]

This is a political history class in an elite faculty lounge jargon. not aimed at people their talking about They are patronizing condescending meaning talking about working class NOT talking TO them Way Out Of Touch And why we’re they not offering their Wisdom BE FORE the tragic election????? Smug

[@terrys3084]

@@nicholasrova3698Dems looking down on the working class is EXACTLY why you lost. Obviously more introspection is needed.

[@irtwiaos]

Erza is so out of touch to use his words. He is right Dem is not aspirational. What happened to universal healthcare, childcare, parental leave? These are the aspirational policies that working class people want. Not some tax allowance to startups.

[@lornahuddleston1453]

Not true

[@DC-kx1fr]

@@lornahuddleston1453yeah you’re right working people want to hear about 50k tax credits for tech startups 😂😂😂

[@obcane3072]

It’s not entirely true that the working class universally supports broad social programs. While advocating for these may sound compassionate, it can also unintentionally undermine a sense of dignity. Suggesting that these programs are necessary assumes people can’t afford to provide for themselves and their families without outside help, rather than focusing on creating opportunities for them to do so independently. Some working men, for example, may not seek paternity leave-they want stable work that allows them to provide for their families directly. Framing everything through the lens of social programs can sometimes diminish personal autonomy and the pride that comes from self-sufficiency.

[@pokelytics4352]

Yeah he’s regurgitating a lot of talking points you’d hear on Fox News. Most notably about “someone pays for it”. I believe Bernie’s med for all plan proposed a 2.5% payroll tax (I believe this essentially would be an increase in fed income taxes). At a minimum it is worth a discussion.

[@AndyMilonakis-j5p]

@@obcane3072those policies poll at or above 70%. Thats a lot of people…

[@beard_o_brian]

Pod boys, please read the comments here, people are saying they love Bernie and AOC and progressive policies. "It is the policy stupid." We liked Walz because of what he did in his state but he was muzzled on those topics in the campaign.

[@omi_god]

"Progressive policies" are clearly a losing proposition in America's current mood. The nation is reeling under the burden of inflation. Bread and butter won the day in this election, not high-minded notions of a liberal paradise. We can't afford our damned groceries anymore.

[@Racheroni05]

@@beard_o_brian agreed! Bold economic populism is what the democrats need to run on and push for. They also need to work on their messaging and using every media apparatus (popular podcasts included) that they can to help combat the misinformation and propaganda put up by the right.

[@traciecombs7030]

Love Tim Walz! In the most practical ways, he speaks about what people need and then brings the receipts to prove how he made their lives better!

[@royjacobs1204]

Fringe party thinking

[@melfhlzahlpd]

​@@royjacobs1204 Small dollar campaign donations would suggest otherwise

[@joiedevie3901]

This was like listening to scientists describe the bonding qualities of water molecules to a drowning man.

[@tonyfeld5403]

It's hard to be rational but someone's gotta do it.

[@Juleslikespink]

I wasn't sure if I was just really tired or what, but I struggled to track what they were saying.

[@pepesilvia4564]

Ezra Klein (and to an extend these Pod Johns) are LITERALLY the reason "working class" (really, just normal people) hate the Democrats now. Overanalizing, smarmy poly-science nerds that try to tell explain a normal guy that is annoyed with.. "ACHSTUALLY....YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU NEED, SWEETY". I swear to god, these imbeciles (as seen by this conversation) will conclude you need MORE PODCASTS and 3,000 new policy proporsals to win back "normal" people... when in reality every piece of evidence has shown them that POLICY.DOES.NOT.MATTER.

[@Ssalamanderr]

@@Juleslikespink They really didn't say much of substance

[@lakehawk]

They don't realize that their problem is not a lack of facts, but that they lack a valid premise in the first place; their vision of how the world works is incorrect. It's easy to gather facts that support a false premise. The leading minds in modern medicine used to believe that blood-letting was a medicinal cure-all. And they had plenty of "facts" to support them. The only problem was that patients kept dying despite "treatment."

[@RjWolf3000]

Social security gave Democrats a 30-40 year house majority and when I started knocking doors in the early 2000’s older voter routinely told me that they had voted for democrats in every election since Social Security. Bernie isn’t saying we need a better message or better policies. He is saying we need to change peoples lives for the better and the fascists won’t come within 20 points for half a century.

[@nicholasrova3698]

And how exactly do you 'change people's lives for the better' without implementing giant government programs that the progressives are known for?

[@davidobriend8560]

Unless democrats get rid of filibuster, the gop will never allow democrats to make change sufficient enough. Theres multiple democratic senators that won't do it. How do we get 51, plus house, plus presidency. Gop did it with cultural issues and propaganda. Problem is most Americans (im not saying you) don't understand how the govt works. We're stuck.

[@katymcdonald5481]

I don’t think it’s as simple as that, I think it is about identity as well. Trump seems sympathetic to working class needs because he has embraced the same culture war issues they love. He has no economic policies that benefit them but they feel his giving voice to their grievances. I think it needs to be giving people a vision that already aligns with their identity, a narrative that people from different groups can relate to.

[@defro125]

​@@katymcdonald5481Well yes, when you have two parties that aren't giving you any tangible universal economic programs, you go with the next best thing: the candidate that recognizes you have a raw deal and tells you he will help you even if he doesn't give you a full plan because the other candidate is too busy maintaining the line for the current president who nobody likes.

[@katymcdonald5481]

@@defro125 I don’t understand why nobody likes Biden’s economic agenda though? He was pro labour, brought back jobs, decreased prices on gas and prescription drugs by wielding power for the benefit of the people. He also had Lena Khan breaking up monopolies that hurt consumers and small business. I don’t know what the narrative needs to be but somehow dems need to be able to tell people what they’re doing for them in a way that actually connects with them.

[@HugeFrigginGuy]

Listening to this I was like, "is it just me, or is there something insufferable about Klein and what he is saying?" Thank you comments section for the solidarity. Make Dems more appealing; analyze Klein and do the opposite of that. Sheesh, this was a hard listen.

[@STEVEN-wk8bl]

Agreed, very tough to listen to. He seems suspiciously eager to dismiss the material concerns of working people. He goes one step towards demystifying material concerns, then two steps towards demystification by talking about all of these ephemeral stuff like the ‘aspirational’ working class. In a country where you can’t rent a one-bedroom apartment on a single income in many parts of the country you’d think that doing something about that and then talking about it would be a way to get you some votes, but to Klein it’s more complicated than that, for reasons that require you to subscribe to the NYT to understand

[@davieb8216]

Well this was the second comment, and I'm 20 minutes in. Glad I didn't have to go far to hear this frustration.

[@anthill1510]

There is something insufferable about him, but I can`t really put my finger on what irks me. He talks liberal, but he feels very conservative, that`s the best I can come up with. He talks middle of the road in a time where that`s not possible to do while being a decent person. Wouldn`t count one second on him when push comes to shove.

[@STEVEN-wk8bl]

@@anthill1510 for me it’s summarized in a tweet he did a few years ago where he said ‘It’s not just that Donald Trump is a bad president, it’s that he’s a bad person’ or words to that effect and I was thinking it’s not a good sign if one of the most boosted person on the “left” (not actually left in my opinion) sounds like he’s going to burst into tears

[@STEVEN-wk8bl]

@@anthill1510 he’s shooting for the center, with wonkish, means-tested prescriptions that everyone has just demonstrated that they hate less than a week ago. He may as well say ‘the reason that Bernie Sanders is wrong is because what he is saying doesn’t serve affluent middle class people with cushy laptop jobs like myself’

[@CK-cz6ml]

Why on earth would Erza Klein have the key to success for the working class?

[@Chudchannel3]

😂 he’s so disconnected from reality

[@jcharles8801]

He works for the NY Times. They have their fingers on the pulse of the little guy!

[@shakacien]

Aaah, because we confuse Middle and Working class around here that the "leftists" of the world like Sam Sedar or David Dole or Emma Vigeland might point out.

[@jahanhashemi9187]

THANK YOU!

[@potatopotatow]

@@shakacienmiddle class aka the petit bourgeoisie

[@Oblique_Lefreak]

As a blue collar worker, the number one thing I care about is the fact that the prices of everything are going up faster than the average wage, and it's been happening over at least the past 30 years.

[@HarmlessHobby]

Exactly. And Democrats will try to get your vote by gaslighting you and telling you the stock market is up and the GDP is up. Working class people don't care because they work for wages, something many politicians don't know anything about.

[@pokelytics4352]

Honestly this kind of patronizing “I know best” convoluted manner of speaking combined with “let’s be diet republicans” Ezra discusses here is precisely why democrats lose elections. He talks about dems being out of touch, yet himself is totally out of touch. Gotta love it. Interesting interview nonetheless.

[@EdwardDollar-r2u]

Why would anyone who cares about culture wars and "glocks" go for the diet Republican when they can just have the full-fat one?

[@Ssalamanderr]

Hearing the democrats start talking about how we need to be tough on the border and that Trump was preventing them from building that wall was really baffling.

[@defro125]

​@@SsalamanderrIt is entirely incoherent. I know some people are saying that the electorate have the mind of goldfish to not remember the Trump presidency, but we remember the wall and how the Dems and media ridiculed him for it. Now the Dems think the wall was a good idea, just implemented poorly by Trump? Insanity.

[@blahblah-hz8ey]

Jews

[@pokelytics4352]

⁠@@defro125oh for sure and while chastising messaging he speaks in this long-winded, convoluted, rambling manner where he says a lot of words that really don’t mean anything and are certainly not going to appeal or persuade anyone outside of his bubble. And I gotta say he seems to love to hear himself talk and comes off as a raging narcissist.

[@jahanhashemi9187]

Ezra Klein is a bad pick to discuss being out of touch with working class voters. He really tries, but he misses the mark.

[@trishagg]

He has fancy hair, though.

[@anthill1510]

Well he is a good demonstration of WHY the democrats are out of touch with the working class: They bring somebody like Ezra on to talk about that topic and he thinks he is just great for that and takes the invite.

[@nicole7967]

He promoted Joe Biden and all the great things he did instead of sounding the alarm that we didn’t need someone his age running. The ability of the democrats to be blind to how unpopular Biden was made it impossible for us to win this time 😕

[@andybrice2711]

He is starting to get it though.

[@soup_god463]

@@nicole7967This is just wrong. Ezra called for Biden to step down and for an open primary way back in February. Most people in the party (including pod save america hosts) vehemently disagreed.

[@FR2024-er8ku]

FLIP THE RHETORIC Instead of begging people to care, reinforce the obvious. 'You're right about paying too many taxes. Make the corporations pay tax' You're right about paying too much for healthcare. Make medicines as cheap as __INSERT ANY G7 COUNTRY_. Stop the price gouging' 'You're right about losing millions of jobs to AI. Make tech corps contribute to UBI' 'You're right about politicians and donors. Cut out all donations. Elections will be federally funded'

[@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat]

"You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy."

[@itscarl0zyall1]

What about overturning the CITIZENS UNITED decision?

[@cerealbananas]

@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat counterpoint: people own stuff and they're miserable

[@russelld2925]

The problem with that is that reality is in the way. Working class people pay a minuscule percentage of US tax revenue. Raising taxes on corporations does not mean that lower class people pay less. It's not zero sum. Prices are not high because of price gouging. It's because of market forces. You people seem to imagine corporations as these exploitation machines with billions in the bank, hoarding cash while paying employees minimum wage. The interests of Workers and corporations are so much more aligned them you imagine. The average Amazon employee makes $75,000 a year. If we start raising capital gains taxes, taxing unrealized gains, and taking larger pieces of their profits we hurt them the tens of thousands of people that work for them. They cut jobs. They lower wages. You should at least learn a little bit about how corporations operate before demanding they pay more taxes.

[@Readabookfoofoo]

@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoatthey don’t get it. It’s feminism. They really think surrendering is the right thing to do.

[@Jay-z2x]

Saying free college, free healthcare, etc isn’t free taxpayers pay for it is ridiculous. Guess what else tax payers pay for? Corn, oil/gas, Elon musk, pharmaceutical companies, tax breaks for billionaires. Let create a society that is not paupers and princes. People living in the u.s. should benefit from the taxes they pay and from living in the wealthiest most successful nation in the world. Finance: According to one search result, 56% of total tax subsidies in the United States go to the finance industry. Between 2010 and 2019, farms received subsidies averaging over $74,000 per year, with 75% of subsidies going to medium or large farming operations. Small family farms received little or no payments, despite making up 89% of all farms. Large farms dominated the industry by 2017.

[@lornahuddleston1453]

What's your point?

[@irtwiaos]

​@@lornahuddleston1453He meant somehow it is always bad to socialize for the people's benefit but always good to socialize for corporations' benefits. If someone says Medicare for all, questions always pop up with how are we going to pay for it. Whenever corn subsidies comes up, not one bats an eye about how are we gonna pay for it.

[@Ssalamanderr]

The "how are you paying for it" argument is insane to me when it comes to healthcare. You're already paying for it! It's just the money goes to parasitic insurance companies instead of towards anything good. The way these companies make a profit is by denying healthcare to people! It's the opposite of what a good healthcare system does. Meanwhile in Canada we pay about half what the average American pays for healthcare. The public option is CHEAPER!

[@williamcastonzo138]

"Guess what else taxpayers pay for? Corn, oil, and Elon fucking Musk" - with the 'fucking' in there - is a winning political message if I've ever heard one. 👏

[@williamjameslehy1341]

​@@lornahuddleston1453just see yourself out if you're genuinely that clueless. Go put on NPR and pat yourself on the back for still saying Latinx no matter how many Latinos roll their eyes at you. If you need something that simple explained to you like you're a child, then this discussion is simply not for you.

[@craigchippindale3177]

Ezra mentioned Bernie underperforming Harris in Vermont but failed to mention there was someone on the Democratic line. AOC overperforming Harris in her district and the feedback from that is much more interesting.

[@consciouspragmatist2778]

Bernie has interesting ideas, but lacks the people skills and influence to get things done.

[@Redcrane05]

Never hit a thumbs down for a PSA post before. It's almost like a satire piece.

[@Mrchair905]

This is kind of disheartening to listen to because it’s clear that they won’t learn anything meaningful from this. We need to embrace the left and more populist candidates, there is a reason why Bernie was so successful until the dnc put a knife in his back. He addressed normal people and talked about what they told him they were concerned with, he didn’t just repeat what his billionaire donors told him to say. Because he didn’t have any.

[@sbamattre]

bernie and warren underperformed harris, and the left-populist 'solutions' are inflationary.

[@User53857]

John Favreau saying people don’t want free healthcare or help with childcare or the child tax credit, F off with that, it’s it true. People are struggling out here 60% OF PEOPLE LIVE PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK.

[@julesnagbunga1204]

All other developed countries have those policies!

[@enriquehidalgo630]

How are you going to pay for it? How much more money will you have to print to pay for it? How many countries are you going to force to use your currency as reserve status to pay for it? If you have an open border policy, what do you think will happen when word gets out in Latin America about free healthcare in the USA? What will the migrants receiving free healthcare do to the cost of the healthcare? The giant sucking sound but in reverse to the USA.

[@seluhir8820]

@@enriquehidalgo630 Well you could stop paying billions and billions of dollars to shady-ass military contractors who provide you with crappy services and crappy goods that actually leave your ACTUAL SOLDIERS worse off than before... and divert that money to helping your people.

[@BrianBurns-cz8dm]

Lol open border policy

[@ck.249]

@@enriquehidalgo630 How are we going to pay for mass deportation? How are we going to pay for our military? How are we going to pay for social security? How are we going to pay for medicare? How are we going to pay for medicaid? How are we going to pay for tax cuts? How are we going to pay for infrastructure? How are we going to pay for schools? How are we going to pay for the ACA? There's no "open border policy." You're just repeating stuff you hear on TV lmao

[@visuallanguage]

YES. We are struggling financially! If your house is on fire, the last thing you want to do is sit and discuss niche topics. Read the room. Help us! (I voted Democratic, but really, really... read the room).

[@nicholasrova3698]

The working class jumped ship to Trump. Maybe try that out, because the Democrats will keep lying to you and let you drown as their ship sinks.

[@stephenwood2172]

But Biden had "the most left wing policies" so I'm afraid you're wrong, apparently.

[@NuiYabuko]

They read the room, though. Harris' policies would've been more helpful to people struggling, so miss me with those takes.

[@andref9663]

They're still correct on most of this. People are not just angry at the economy, they're angry at cultural issues.

[@elizabethbass2641]

What niche topics did Harris talk about? Don't confuse what Harris was saying with how the right-wing ooze was trying to characterize her.

[@billymays81]

Maybe it's the sneering disdain you ooze whenever you talk about "non college" people that's turning them off?

[@Greystorm1619]

Lol I actually liked this interview but then looked at the comments 😅 I think Ezra made some good points but I think the consensus is that we want you all to go out and chat with the people being affected by these issues, not just those reporting on them.

[@abealc88]

There wasn’t more money though! Tens of millions of people lost $100s of dollars a month when child tax credit ended. That was more than wage growth for many. And then student loan payments started up again. For me and a lot of my friends, between those two events, we lost 900-1400 a month!

[@cerealbananas]

"But don't you see working class voter? A 'former' Republican on the news channel said it's cultural issues (not the price hikes) that made us lose, so we have to be racist and transphobic now, sorry!"

[@EdwardDollar-r2u]

All of that is about to get a whole lot worse, too.

[@Ssalamanderr]

But wages of low income people went up by 10%! Meaning they were making dozens of more dollars per year!

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Most working people don't have student loans. Even if mamy do

[@spark92077]

I have a suggestion - maybe talk to people who are actually a part of the working class? How does talking about what y'all "think" is behind Democrats losing working class voters more helpful than talking directly to the source? Have either one of you had to consistently skip therapy sessions because of the high co-pay so your children can eat in the last 6 months? These discussions echo the conversation Dems were having when GW Bush won. Including lots of talk ABOUT the working class not WITH the working class. Also, this can mostly be boiled down to: politicians who help create less friction in the day to day lives of the actual working class will most likely win reelection

[@adambeck8180]

OK, good point.

[@EdwardLindon]

"You want to know about dogs? Talk to a dog! You want to know how cars work? Look at one and only one car. Definitely don't talk to someone who studies the basic mechanics involved in all car manufacture!"

[@josefonseca6144]

I was called a troll here when I was making the point that the party not the voters is at fault for not speaking to the working class. Corporate Dems are very slow to learn that we in the lower class can feel your hate for us especially if we are brown.

[@mhill0425]

There is a large group of vote blue no matter who moderates that seem to find that the Democratic Party is above any criticism. It’s maddening.

[@vvieites001]

@@mhill0425I blame the voters because they’re not children and I hold them to higher standards than many seem to do. Of course the party bares responsibility to a degree but many voters chose ignorance and refused to listen to what party leaders and us regular Dems were saying. We tried to explain in a million different ways what Harris would do, why Trump was bad, their disparate policies, etc. voters shut their ears and went la la la not listening. Now many of them are worried. We can lead a horse to water but can’t force them to drink it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@zacharythomas8617]

As a non-troll. Troll, incel, and reply guy are the new n word.

[@oceanecastelnau9821]

Not hate. Profound indifference. The art of overlooking in pursuit of more profitable things. Like gentrification, if you know what that is. Democrats from Clinton on spoke the language of FDR and corporations became jackboots and exploited and milked everybody at every turn and always. And then Obama bailed out the banks while 6 million families lost their homes and livelihoods and drowned in student debt. While speaking in FDR language. It made people hate them. They were wealthy themselves and crawling with lobbyists. Biden was too little too late and no one knew the good he was doing anyway. There were no equivalents to the Fireside Chats. And then prices made life unaffordable. And Trump played on racism and phobias and every dark crevice in America's soul, to break it apart and grab the whole country for himself and his insatiable greed, now lust for power; which he measures in units of destructiveness and sheer cruelty.

[@AndyMilonakis-j5p]

Have you seen some of these corporate dems in interviews recently. Still havent learned a thing 😂

[@Rodzilla5332]

Every episode is "We need to figure out how to get to voters to listen to us" instead of "We need to listen to the voters".

[@alexweber9899]

“We aren’t sure what happened this election, why the Dems are out of touch, what to do next. Let’s get on Ezra Klein! He’ll explain” might as well wrap up this pod guys.

[@cassandratq9301]

Walz was authentic on economic populism. He was the most popular candidate of the four. But the campaign stuffed him in a closet after the convention to emphasize Liz Cheney. 🤬🤬🤬

[@geekthegirl6961]

Exactly! Once they pivoted from that to embracing Republicans (like, why??), her numbers went down.

[@cerealbananas]

The beloved liz cheney, who lost her seat

[@STG44tiger]

They had a weird fascination with Liz Cheney.

[@AnyoneLived42]

I absolutely agree Walz was authentic. I don't think it was the campaign alone and really question the media

[@NeuronIron]

Well, his district in Minnesota became much redder. I think Jared Polis' is the way. need to make things affordable AND make everyone prosperous.

[@brucejones7071]

at 45 minutes in I really think Ezra Klein is really underestimating the effect of right-wing propaganda campaigns. I listen to it. It's really quite powerful.

[@RuralJuror420]

How do you break through that?

[@Mrchair905]

@@RuralJuror420in a lot of ways you don’t, you just can’t win that voter and need to stop trying to appeal to them. Democrats need to stop trying to run “republican lite” campaigns.

[@obcane3072]

To counter the right’s effective rhetoric, start by engaging with their ideas directly, taking their statements at face value. It’s also essential to understand the psychology behind their perspective-particularly their focus on an internal locus of control, in contrast to the left’s emphasis on external factors. These approaches reflect two distinct coping strategies rooted in opposing values, each using its own language to express a unique worldview.

[@seankenny1275]

as you watch left wing propaganda... ironic

[@ClayB05]

Right wing propaganda you’re seeing is delusion. The reality is that the majority of Americans got completely sick of corporate media practically owned by the Democratic Party spewing lies 24/7. They even told you for months Kamala was going to win. Anyone with half a brain could see she was gonna tank. And these podcast NPC’s are stuck in like 2013. They’re not even trying to cover reality. It’s very strange to watch. This isn’t neoliberal kitsch world anymore. Democratic Party is cooked.

[@modgodel]

Oh Jesus, Ezra is the one w the answers now?

[@Nae210]

Exactly! The guy who came out of hiding to argue for Biden to step down. It’s honestly a joke! Dems have work to do but these guys are out of touch!

[@MrKinghenrythe8th]

Ezra is like the Tech Bro CEO who insists that it would be better if Tech Sales Bros JonJon and Tommy would improve their sales and marketing strategy. Meanwhile they’re not listening to Customer Success Manager Bernie Sanders who is telling them their product is Shit.

[@bonniepoole1095]

As a liberal, I'm tired of identity politics and PC. I was horrified when Biden said his VP pick would be a woman of color! How is that a qualification? Say that you'll pick the most qualified person and then SILENTLY find a woman of color. NPR has a show that talks about how unfair it is to be Black in America- - Yes, there are issues that show bias against each minority (women, LGBTQ, people of color, any immigrant, etc.) but call them ALL citizens and stop making an issue of minority status. I think that the disaffection of Blacks, Hispanics and men is telling Dems directly that identity is less important than policy. Libral media needs to get this point.

[@abealc88]

“For every blue collar voter we lose. . . “ Dems through their voter base under the bus because they wanted a different class of voters. The party showed contempt to its voters, no shit you lost the working class.

[@cerealbananas]

Very true, the democrat establisment hate the working class and especially the lower class, the contempt is obvious in how much they exclusively pander to the middle class

[@shinnyshin7792]

@@cerealbananas Dems are still better for the working class. But we keep sending out people like John Kerry, Hillary, Biden, Harris, or other rich coastal lawyers to pretend they're reformers or a force for change, while they let the country further and further to the right economically. Hillary is an overt Kissinger fan and the party tried to run her twice. Our only selling point is that our opponents are so awful that the country is held hostage into voting for us. No wonder our message isn't resonating with people, even if we are better.

[@eiryuu]

*threw 🥲🥲 ( /not american, don't jump on me for notcommenting on the rest of that 😅 )

[@ralphtoivonen2071]

So they went for the billionaires that run the Republican party as well as the Democrats. Same same except you get the pain that Musk has promised and tariffs to supercharge inflation. Congrats.

[@silkenelfinmagichobebronken]

@@cerealbananas the working class is the middle class (43K-130K), and Biden walked a picket line and saved union pensions.

[@benjaminnead8557]

Why, yes, it's Ezra "I could have told you this was going to happen" Klein, reporting for the New York "we're going to both sides the livin' shit out of this story" Times.

[@No_Camping]

I'm with you...

[@potatopotatow]

Listening to him try to make that case that the Sanders wing of the democratic party is “too Marxist” and that working class people essentially really want more bootstraps rhetoric (“aspirational”) is so brain dead on so many levels. What a shit lib

[@mikayocc]

I like Ezra, but you're so right about this.

[@jasonk125]

I find Erza Klein to be fundamentally dishonest. At 47:00 he pretends not to know that Biden meant that the comic was spewing garbage. Klein pretends not to know simply because it makes a better story. This is dishonest.

[@EdwardDollar-r2u]

They need to serve the Almighty 💵

[@stevegeorge6880]

I really liked the turn towards the end towards mentioning that Democrats stopped offering an aspirational model for economic success. Like, there's a reason why we even call it the working class and call it labor. We like to work. We just want to enjoy the fruits of our work. And we don't even mind if some people have fairly large surpluses provided a bit more is chopped off the top of their pile in recognition of the fact that they have also benefited more than most from our collective efforts. It can also make sure that no one goes completely without and that educational /employment opportunities and basic social safety nets in housing, food, and healthcare are available to everyone.

[@EdwardDollar-r2u]

Such a good point. It's not even like reform would mean that rich people still can't be richer than the working-class (even far richer). Just pay your workers a livable wage so they have some security in their lives. No American is asking for socialism here.

[@joshuaswart8211]

If this is the best Ezra has to say about the election, I can only conclude that he is massively overpaid.

[@cwidd1929]

he is massively overpaid and I can't wait for him to be replaced by someone who actually has something to say

[@adamferguson7663]

Don't ask what could Dems learn from 2024, ask what WILL Dems learn from 2024. And we know the answer to that is nothing.

[@suzannemcvicker617]

Right. They've already had 8 years to learn something.

[@markfcoble]

Thankfully.

[@ricksflicks-]

You don't find yourself in a new reality. You find yourselves in the reality. The rest of us have always been here. Don't worry you'll see yourselves out soon enough.

[@jaynook4980]

Sherrod Brown was incredibly well-positioned as a “working class” democrat & yet he lost. The winds of change are much more aligned with incumbent resentment in 2024.

[@lisarozzz]

And the bitcoin bros dropped $40 million anti brown adds in the last week of the election 😮

[@jj947]

The outran Kamala by a lot. The state just got too red for him

[@kf10126]

Well, I think it's smarter to look at your choices and learn as much as you can. It's the president of the United States for Christ's sake. Try harder than throwing caution to the wind just because you're mad over stuff that isn't reality. They didn't do that. They just didn't.

[@Donnellrawlings14]

I hope that coping helps you feel better.

[@briancfield]

No people are pissed they have been since 2008

[@ChristianStran]

Ezra saying that Bernie voters aren’t aspirational workers is fucking insulting. Pretending like our social safety net is anywhere near to the rest of the developed world is political malpractice. This guy is a corporate establishment apologist.

[@Edd1148.]

The other comment before mine is right. "Aspirational" figures like Trump & Musk appeal to voters whose only concern is the economy and think they can get rich like these billionaires. That said I don't think Ezra himself thinks Trump/Musk are figures he aspires to be. Trump and Musk largely won over voters with their clout - is what I interpreted from Ezra.

[@calmhorizons]

He is also an apologist for American militarism and Israeli genocide.

[@kluhman]

it's funny how no one ever discusses how Republican politicians/voters have lost touch with voters who do not support them, and what they should do about it. no one questions the contempt that the right half of the country has for the left half.

[@babymonalisa]

Bringing Ezra Klein, an out of touch centrist to discuss why Dems lost. No thanks. I have better things to do woth my time!

[@EdwardLindon]

And yet here you are...

[@J-bw4sr]

You can’t be supportive of the working class, when your first priority is making your billionaire donor class happy

[@222lanna]

As a former liberal this take has been the most accurate to my personal thoughts. Liberals have been so extreme that anyone with slight intelligence has walked away. The low Iq who were left remaining have been given college degrees and elevated into ivy league positions. ELEVATED! 🙄 so what your left with is a party of elitest who arent effected by policies and leftist (so low IQ that they would be rendered special ed 10 yrs ago) who cant even comprehend whats happening as the class divide widens in front of their eyes. Its shameful. How many podcasts are young men or ladies with degrees, wearing a $400 pair of glasses that cant comprehend the meaning of the deep state or see the problem with focusing on feelings over the inability to financially qualify for a home mortgage. They are simply dim witted. Its quite stunning.

[@cmashburn528]

Lost me at “Bernie Sanders wing of the party.” Look, I’ll grant that Bernie can be a little class reductionist, but to suggest that anything remotely close to his economic policy agenda has been given a chance to work is just lying.

[@21lauriux]

Rent is way to expensive. Economy is not doing well when you can barely afford a roof over your head.

[@Yithian]

“Elon Musk is a quite effective person” tells me all I need to know about Ezra

[@schlickit628]

I can’t disagree more about your twitter takes. Quitting isn’t a sacrifice if there is a ready replacement! Quit now! Show some strength!

[@eschwarz1003]

IKR!

[@kf10126]

What is this replacement. Guess I have to go Google it, lol.

[@schlickit628]

@ I mean there isn’t one yet. The usual excuse to stay on twitter is threads and blue sky are not a good enough replacement.

[@MrFinnyous]

@@kf10126 Lots are switching to Bluesky

[@ImaniJoi]

I love this podcast but continuing to blame black voters when we’re the most loyal voting base and never given anything in return is sooo tired and frustrating!!!

[@consciouspragmatist2778]

Agreed. It's astounding that they act like Dems exist solely for the benefit of brown people.

[@ggschannel4401]

Wish I could "like" your comment at least 10 times

[@vanontom]

Is this some kind of trolling? Bots? It's like nobody actually listened to this podcast, and are yelling about all kinds of random things. Maybe I should just avoid KZbin comments like Twitter...

[@ImaniJoi]

@@vanontom no bots over here and maybe you should… 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@cjojay]

@@vanontom what do you disagree with? Asking in good faith

[@Reldas]

We need a new Bernie. I really love and appreciate y'all. I can't imagine podcasting damn near daily after this election. Please take a break when you need it.

[@kevinobrien5368]

Inflation has not fallen!!! The pace of inflation has slowed.

[@CreamyBone]

Please never take this channel down. It's needs to be preserved for future generations to enjoy.

[@scpatl4now]

Having not watched this yet (and probably wont), it kinda hits me that Ezra Klein and the like are really the last people that should be telling democrats how to win next time.🙄🙄

[@canuckasaurus]

No, no. It's actually useful. You just have to do the opposite of whatever Ezra thinks.

[@RuralJuror420]

@@canuckasaurushe’s one of the good neoliberals though

[@Mrchair905]

Yeah they’re stuck in the 2010’s style of politics and it shows. The United States is a plutocracy and democrats should be messaging on that and how billionaires are literally buying congress, but then the mainstream democrat party would have to cut off a lot of their funding and they really like money..

[@scpatl4now]

@@Mrchair905 That's the problem. As a party they are not capable of doing it. I really do think it's time for something new and a takeover of the Green Party seems the quickest route to recovery. Let the corporate democrats have their own party.

[@emiiii]

@@RuralJuror420 jon favreaux might be one of the good neoliberals. Ezra… not sure lol

[@keifermay3913]

Everyone pissed off and alienated on the left and sick of these people pushing out progressives: DSA is meeting to organize for 2025. Thursday November 14th, Workers Deserve More.

[@EdwardLindon]

There's nothing that says "We on the left are making a stand" than voting for a right-wing authoritarian or just staying home and letting him win.

[@DavetheLeg]

Why does no one mention how she ran on Medicare for all and then reversed on it immediately after losing the primary and running for vice president?

[@nicholasrova3698]

Because it didn't fit the narrative at the time.

[@Ssalamanderr]

remember "I was that little girl" followed by "It was a debate"? She was a completely empty suit. One of the worst presidential candidates of my lifetime, and that is saying a lot.

[@wesleystreet]

@@Ssalamanderr Hillary 2.0.

[@JDD_MD]

This was such a frustrating to watch echo chamber. If Democrats want to understand why they lost and how to move forward, they need to talk to REAL constituents. Not political strategists or people who vote blue no matter what. I make well into the six figures and I still feel economic impacts. I get sticker shock when I go to the grocery store (though I blame the price gouging food manufacturers, not the government directly). I’m still paying student loans from 20 years ago. And despite politicians and msnbc boasting fantastic unemployment rates, I’ve watched so many of my colleagues and people around my industry and even in other industries (tens of thousands of workers) experience mass layoffs at the corporate level. So it pisses me off when the hosts dismiss people’s very real concerns about the economy and that issue being their driving force in voting. They push up their metaphorical glasses and Pointdexter style mansplain every episode that actually…the economy is doing really great, it’s just inflation, blah blah blah. Your everyday worker (myself included who’s a college educated, vote blue til there’s not a psychopath on the other side and lives in one of the “coastal elite” states) shouldn’t have to learn basic principles of Economics to vote. All we care about is that financially, it doesn’t feel like we’re not doing as well as we used to and all the other moral shit the dems push goes to the back burner because half of the promises these candidates make they don’t even have the time, Senate/House support or real conviction to make it happen during their term.

[@ericsmith3996]

These two dudes are such circlejerkers. God dammit we need actual talent, not a bunch of obama grads.

[@jcharles8801]

Let's not listen to the people. What do they know? Let's keep listening to the same consultants, strategists, focus groups, academics, donors, elderly center/right leadership, and shouty media types. They know best!

[@Chudchannel3]

😂

[@zoeolsson5683]

CleArly the US is very very silly ....

[@Readabookfoofoo]

They can’t help it. Their brains are wired up for it.

[@Josh-Parkhill]

Listen to the people? What the hell are you talking about? Have you tried listening to the people? Do you think they have the ability to articulate the drives that compel them. We’ve been to the focus groups. We’ve interviewed every demographic. If you want to throw shade, you can atleast make a suggestion.

[@jcharles8801]

@@Josh-Parkhill People are too dumb to know what they want? Is that what you're saying? You can start by not vilifying and demonizing any group who isn't in the cult. Stop treating people who are rejecting the party as radioactive and learn why they're abandoning you. Accept what they tell you, not just what you consider "acceptable" answers. You can also try not dividing people into demographics. Most people want the same basic things. If you're doing the right things for people, you don't have to manipulate them into voting for you based on some identifying factor. Did you only ask women what they wanted and not men? It appears that was the case.

[@e.malloy7530]

I appreciate both Ezra Klein and Jon Favreau for their perspectives but there are factors here that they are failing to take into account with the progressive/left wing of the Democrats and Bernie Sander's critique of the democrats. Most millennials are now heading into middle age and have witnessed a number of large institutions fail to deliver on their promises, especially on the federal level. Obama was an exciting change candidate when he ran for office in 2008 and an excellent communicator. Many people of my generation were in on him going to shake up the system and make big changes - end the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, pass free healthcare and make American life better for everyone. He did that in a number of ways through deep dive policy but, he was largely held back by procedural issues, the Tea Party backlash and having to pass his agenda through a deadlocked Congress. Obama only sort of made things better. People who are making less than $75,000 a year have not seen any meaningful structural changes to their material conditions since the 1970s. Forget it if you make less than that. Sure you can say there are all these policies that the democrats have passed to improve lives, but can you summarize it down to a 6th grade reading level? Can you make an infographic about it? Can you actually communicate the idea of "improved conditions" to someone who's only source of news is filtered through Facebook, Twitter, and Fox News? Can you explain away how Bernie ran within the Democratic party and had his candidacy squashed by the Superdelegates in 2016 by Clinton and then squashed AGAIN by backroom deals in 2020 for the field of candidates to all drop out within a week and endorse Biden unanimously? Those last two things pissed a lot of people off - many of whom would've gone for Bernie - and left a bunch of people unwilling to leave the couch to go vote. The electorate are at the point of frustration that they are willing to look into the word salad of Trump and try to see a promise for something that is concrete and revolutionary to improve their situation. It's misinformed and full of bigotry, but no one on the left is willing to tell the truth to them without a bunch of half-truths - trying to play hide the ball about how MANY of these elected officials and party officials have taken HUGE donations from big business Super PACs and own massive amounts of stock, and policies are pulled around by monied interests. With Trump, the connections are OBVIOUS. Maybe obvious enough that someone might point out we should End Citizens United and actually stand for their principals rather than try to hide it in a graph or pretend it's not there. Please stop learning the wrong lessons from these elections. 12 Million people stayed home because they've given up and now we're all going to watch America burn.

[@Ssalamanderr]

Great comment! I doubt PSA will ever voice a real biting critique of the democratic party. They are too PR brained and too close to the party itself.

[@wesleystreet]

@@Ssalamanderr Not really. They released a statement completely slamming the party for their incompetence and stated that the only way forward is community based as the Dems are too corrupt.

[@paulh.9668]

I appreciate the discussion, but there is no mention of what the attraction for the Republican Party is. They have done nothing for the working class, so why the attraction.

[@STG44tiger]

Biden economy wrecked people so easier to trust the previous guy with the better economy

[@scpatl4now]

It's not attraction as much as a well oiled propaganda machine. From talk radio to Fox to Newsmax. There is an entire echo chamber of right wing propaganda all working in unison...all owned by Rupert Murdoch or similar. They have been playing the long game for decades, and man is it bearing fruit for them now

[@wadenovin2479]

Snake Oil. And who to blame when it fails.

[@anthill1510]

"Because Trump says what we all think". The hate, they like the hate. They have a resentment that these arrogant dems always scold them and tell them to be better people. It`s no fun. No fun at all.

[@danielmeixner7125]

They give you permission to be totally emotionally disinhibited and still somehow position yourself as the being on the side of rationality. They made the blue pill red and vice versa

[@KristinaMarie23]

As A Trump voter and someone who rarely can listen to left leaning channels I really enjoyed hearing both of your views on the election and the Democrats problem with working class voters so much that I actually just became a subscriber. I am eager to check out Ezra Kleins channel as well. Thanks for not intentionally pushing Trump voters away because what I actually LOVE about this Trump administration & his cabinet picks are the differing views amongst them. I really like RFK JR. Tulsi Gabbard, Elon Musk all previous Democrats. Plus Vivek who is more Libertarian.

[@yianninikolaou4055]

As Stewart said… a bubble within a bubble

[@LiliSmallwooddaGraca]

Gosh Ezra Klein is the exact type of centrist leaning liberal that damned this last election. We need to stop listening to consultants and pundits like this. Talking in circles about how to not do anything different but message it differently is why the “left” (centre) doesn’t have their version Rogan and why you’ll go into 2025 with power no where in any house of government. Jon did a good job trying to unwaterdown Democrat Ezra’s points but gosh guys please stop , stay away from people and talking points like this. This is why they lost.

[@paulthomas963]

Joe Rogan is the left's version of Joe Rogan lol. Anyone who doesn't fall in line with authoritarianism gets called right wing. You're even calling Lex Fridman right wing.

[@WilliamHoaglund]

Harris was welcomed to be on his show. Rogan is/was a Bernie supporter and had him on the podcast. He believes in universal healthcare and universal basic income along with all of the democratic talking points from just eight short years go. He is a very liberal guy. If that isn’t far enough left for you then that’s the real problem. You’re losing him on freedom of speech issues and biological males beating the snot out of biological females in MMA fights. Etc..

[@ADITYAMISHRA-h7g]

The party does not give a crap, thats really clear from this conversation

[@Deleted_personality]

The democrats give off a strong 4 more off the same nothingness vibe. They seem to have a broken engine but they're kicking the tires.

[@mteacher9811]

Re: The Biden immigration comment and aftermath, it's not clear to me that why we allow ourselves to equivocate between "activist" and "leader" with respect to some group. Jon did this right around 52:30 and its a serious mistake. If anything, given the current results, we should respect activists for what they are--people trying to push us as forward as they can--but we should not make the mistake of thinking they represent any majority or plurality of their interest group. This seems to be a big problem. It's related, I think, to how disconnected most voters feel from the Democratic party with respect to identity politics and the 'coastal elite' view of us as not representing working people.

[@arthurmorgan332]

Democrats should just stand back and let Trump and Republicans do everything they want. Americans truly deserve what they voted for!

[@jerseygunz]

I’ll be honest, this is the first time I listened to these guys and it will be the last, neolib nonsense that isn’t going to save anyone. I am however impressed by the comment section calling out the bullshit, that’s cool

[@calmhorizons]

Pod Save America are in love with their own "legacy" under Obama. They need to wake up and smell the napalm - their complete failure, with Obama, to deliver the much vaunted "change" he promised led to disillusionment, and Trump.

[@tuckernaughton]

​@@calmhorizonslol

[@AsmodeusMKO]

It is annoying hearing people like Klein and ilk talk down to people in the Bernie coalition like they don't understand that "free" college isn't free, or that "free" healthcare isn't free. EVERYONE knows it is tax money that pays for these things, that we must to WORK for what we want/earn. Who are you actually talking to and about? People have a major problem with WHERE the tax money is being spent. Why is this hard? I understand that the US has obligation's and responsibilities with the moneys it rakes in. Promises around the world that "WE" have entrenched ourselves in, but that is part of the problem. The money that "WE" make and spend is not being spent on "US" per say, it is being spent else where. This is the fundamental overlap between those who were for Bernie, and then went over to support Trump (not me by the way). Why is this so hard for people to understand?

[@Monoma-gi1ol]

This episode is emblematic of why I stopped listening to this network of podcasts by the end of Trump's first term. Dems don't want to persuade voters, they don't want to do politics. They want to do focus groups and read polls and listen to overpaid consultants.

[@cassandratq9301]

THAT CONTEMPT WAS EARNED.

[@kbuckendorf4287]

@48:00 Contempt goes both ways. And in a lot of ways, as I consider my waning days in uniform and consider the worst that is to come, I want them to feel the same disquiet I feel. You see as a veteran who has supported Harris and Biden and has always been on the more negative side with Trump, I've actually been physically threatened. I've been called a traitor. I've been called a disgrace. My stomach is in knots because I'm genuinely nervous about what could happen. Could my clearance be jeopardized because I contributed to a campaign? Will my social media posts be used against me in employment to the federal government or the contractor world? Should I give up everything I've been a part of and just go to work someplace away from the defense sector? I've faced bullets and IEDs and naval mines and have ridden in equipment where the paint has been stripped bare or been permanently discolored by middle East sand. Never in my life did I fear for my livelihood or the well being of my family. It's all well and good to talk about working folks and empathy and connection, but alot of people are going to get put through pain they'd never receive under a Democratic administration or even under a Haley administration. And it seems like people knew that pain was inevitable and was looking forward to watching it, especially if they weren't the party receiving it.

[@williamcastonzo138]

Just commenting to hopefully goose the algorithm bc this comment needs to be seen. It's hard not to respond to contempt with contempt. We most likely need a candidate who can do it. But that's a tall fucking order for a constituency (that still makes up functionally half the country) who has to constantly hear bullshit conversations where people wish cops would beat the shit out of students camping in quads, or talk about how women and athletes need to shut the fuck up about any and everything, or make jokes about periods and brainwashing when they hear a man show support for any minority viewpoint - all without a second thought. There's more than enough contempt to go around. I can want someone to be able to afford the price of groceries to feed their kids while still thinking they're fundamentally a piece of shit. That's kind of what America is all about. I only see one constituency who have lost sight of that. It's the same boring "Why won't you tolerate my intolerance?" canard.

[@RosieSmith-qz5km]

"While still thinking they're fundamentally a piece of shit" I think I may see the difference between you and me and why we may not get along Charity is an act of love Your statement shows pure contempt for the receiver

[@williamcastonzo138]

@RosieSmith-qz5km The more fundamental difference may be that you see government as being some form of charity?? And you occupying the position of a 'giver' with respect to the levers of government? Which is not how any of this works.

[@NerfThisBoardGames]

Does "alleged sex trafficker" go before or after "attorney general" when talking about Gatez? They both start with A, just need to double check

[@NPC123UH]

mayorkas holds the trafficking record

[@daxmcanear]

We have officially buried truth in the dirt.

[@johnnymatias3027]

Alleged sex trafficker, it's alphabetically and epistemologically first.

[@JackAShepherd]

Remember when we thought he was gonna face accountability? Fun times

[@kf10126]

It's should be, Attorney General Matt Gaetz, alleged sex trafficker. Kind of like the James Bond in the bond, James Bond. Except nowhere near as cool. Or as decent of a human being😂. I don't really think it's funny I just have to use the laughing while crying face because I have no idea what to expect except bad things. I can't afford to lose all of my retirement money, I can't afford to lose my social security completely, I'm like 20 years away from that shit and I've been paying into it for so long. I just don't know what to do I feel helpless and I feel like everything is just going to fall apart on us all. We're going to implode and everybody's going to feel it. I hate to be Doom and gloom but maybe it's just going to be my group of people working class people maybe we're going to be screwed and everybody else will be fine I don't know. But I don't like any of this and I can't believe how ridiculous these cabinet choices are because none of these people have any freaking experience doing the things that they're being appointed or suggested to be appointed for anyway. And then he's going to try to find a way to just shove them through without any of the normal methods of appointing? I just don't know how this is all going to go and it's already just exhausting me mentally and physically and I hope I make it through the next 4 years to be quite honest.

[@johnfox901]

You guys don't understand Americans outside of a few big cities

[@YoungDemsofSpaldingCo]

After seeing the election results, I really think Ezra is wrong. Embracing the right-wing is exactly why Kamala lost.

[@peterford9369]

Tim. Why is it you always seem to associate working class, with non college educated. There are probably millions of college grads, that didn't make the six figure salary crowd. And end up looking at a 40 thou or even less, job. And, there are millions of people that aren't college grads, that do earn six figures. Many plumbers never saw a college. And make really good money. And of course the flip side is true too. I wish you'd change your... generalizing? When it comes to college educated people and earning abilities or even just intelligence. It's very demeaning.

[@linksauce_1]

They’re implicitly buying into the boomer exaggeration (or lie, whatever you want to call it) that if you go to college you’ll automatically get a well paying job. Most of my friends who went to college either dropped out over the halfway mark due to rising costs (not just tuition - everything) or did graduate but can’t get one of those mythical jobs that make you instantly wealthy (and also don’t have enough resources to move to the places that do have them). Real wages are up, inflation is down, but there are still underlying issues with the economy that are squeezing the working class.

[@munaali840]

exactly Teachers are working class with college degrees

[@renemerced5221]

This was the most insufferable conversation that I've listened to in ages. I couldn't give it a thumbs down fast enough.

[@christianschwalbach7561]

Than don’t listen. I found the talk informative. Jesus

[@renemerced5221]

@christianschwalbach7561 informative? Maybe on how to lose in 2028.

[@Djr85]

Obama led us to Trump. Obama led us to Biden. Obama led us to Trump again.

[@paulthomas963]

Is he finally going the fuck away? And Hillary Clinton too? Where's that new blood. There are people with ideas but the party makes them eat establishment shit or tosses them out.

[@cruxell]

Saying joe biden is ideologically aligned with bernie sanders is so funny

[@cruxell]

Ezra Klein doing Trump's propaganda for him, next he'll be saying comrade Kamala too.

[@cjojay]

Pod Save America, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the comments here. I came to write how Ezra gave a jumbled, poor analysis that really made little sense in totality, and I saw that others had variations of the same opinion. This analysis was not helpful. It is incoherent and remains out of touch. In fact, I would love your next episode to discuss the audience feedback from this interview (if possible). The best part of the interview was at 1hr 9 mins when he spoke like a regular person and made sense. He could have just said that and been done.

[@PrinceAntony989]

Take Ezra Klein’s advice on Dems needing to say “No” to the left with a heavy grain of salt. Obama did much to depress the strength of the left *outside* of electoral politics by refusing to integrate them into a governing coalition and inviting more moderates and Republicans. It created a competition between “the professional left” to get Obama’s ear because there were so few opportunities.

[@stephenwood2172]

Ezra critiques the left's diagnosis on the basis that Biden had left wing economic policies. But the fact is that living standards have fallen - and at the end of the day that's what matters to voters!

[@cafecitoandsand]

Insufferable Attention producers, please read the comments

[@williamjameslehy1341]

The comments give me hope. It's time for the Democrats to tell these out of touch, elitist toffs to shut up and sit down.

[@cafecitoandsand]

💯 I also feel hopeful in the comments

[@oswaldkuyler]

Love how it’s a surprise that people are actually struggling with cost? Mind blown

[@engma2006]

Have you tried to interview someone without a college degree? I think this may help you understand why more and more working class people are fed up with the Democrats and their lies.

[@fw5532]

Let me simplify. (1) choose a non establishment candidate (2) stop attacking voters (3) be factual. Joe Biden was showing signs of being unfit months before the debate. (4) most Americans don’t care about a person’s gender/sex preference, but don’t shove it down our throats. (5) like #3 stop the damn gas lighting. The trust is at all time low for dems (6) stop the “everything Trump is bad”. Don’t need to praise him. But his border policy actually worked.

[@fw5532]

With #4 I meant going extreme. Like kids taking hormone drugs. Men playing in women’s sports. Removing parent’s rights to manage their child’s situation. How could the kid possibly know without ever having sex or experiencing sexual attraction?

[@suzannemcvicker617]

*Joe Biden was showing signs of being unfit in 2019

[@ryanfriend1337]

Jon Stewart interviewed Sarah Smarsh about the Working Class. It was incredible and she would make a great guest. Highly recommend it 🎉

[@LilybeeTV]

Thank you to Ezra Klein for calling out the absurdity that trans issues cost democrats the election. I soured on him these past few years but this was an excellent discussion. Call me proven wrong

[@suzannemcvicker617]

Flipped a lot of voters to Trump.

[@LilybeeTV]

@ the republicans did make trans issues a big piece of their campaign and there were a block of Biden voters who moved to trump but im still waiting to see the data that proves a link between the two. People don’t care about this issue. It doesn’t even show up in exit polling as voter’s most important issue.

[@suzannemcvicker617]

@LilybeeTV you support blatant misogyny. You Democrats think nothing of forcing girls to sacrifice for boys. How many girls have to sacrifice for just one boy? People absolutely care about this issue and it's a large part of why Trump won. Democrats are disgusting.

[@cjojay]

did he...say that?

[@markaisenberg6641]

I’m a republican dropping in and I must say, this episode was mostly reasonable. I’ll try another one but I have low expectations 😅

[@jamesbutler1831]

I think the idea that Dems supporting union workers being synonymous with supporting all workers is naive. Supporting the unions is great but they are a very small % of all workers. Most middle class and working-class Americans make much less than union workers, and don't have the benefits or job security as union workers. Union workers are not struggling to make ends meet in this economy. Wage increases and health benefits would go a long way to regain the support of the average American worker.

[@consciouspragmatist2778]

Very valid point about them seeing supporting unions as proof of supporting the working class overall. It's also true that referencing the middle class so much left the many who don't consider themselves middle class feeling overlooked in the aspirational messaging. The federal minimum wage in the US hasn't increased since 2009. The ACA helped closed some of the Healthcare gap, but we still have work to do. That said, 45 has often expressed disdain for workers, including saying “I used to hate to pay overtime when I was in the private sector, as they say. ‘Oh, I don't want over-’ you know, I shouldn't tell you this. I’d go out and get other people and let them work regular time. It's terrible. I'd say, ‘no get me 10 other guys. I don't want to have. I'm going to have. I don't want to have,’ but it'll be great.” Unions didn't want to back her due "economic concerns", but voted for that guy. Boggles the mind.

[@Monoma-gi1ol]

This system is designed to prevent workers from realizing we have more in common with each other than business owners and forming unions. Right to work laws and Taft Hartly are a big part. Democrats did NOTHING to get the PRO Act, which would have gained workers back some rights, on the floor for a vote. It was disgusting.

[@grahmdoughty]

This goes beyond tone-deaf and is just plainly unintelligent. Watching these two makes it easy to understand why the dems lost

[@aerialaddison]

Glad to know I wasn’t the only one who couldn’t finish this. I love Ezra. I’ve been following him since I heard him on Air America Radio during the 2004 election. I love Jon as well. I fell in love with his speechwriting during the 2008 primaries and spent the next four years testing myself on which parts of Obama’s speeches were heavily influenced by him. I’m horrified listening to both of you talk about these choices in such a flippant way. Ezra being impressed by Elon Musk and what he’s built. To steal a line from Elizabeth Warren: he didn’t build that. Each and every area where he has had success has been filled and even bookended by massive failures. It has been him relying on other peoples technology or ideas. So forgive me for not being as inspired by him. You both are doing what you both have blamed the MSM for doing. You’re continuing to normalize everything Donald Trump does. He won so he’s no longer a soon to be fascist. He’s just an oaf who makes bad decisions. Let’s sit here and break his decisions down as if they’re normal and done by a sane person. We can’t be outraged because people are tired of hysteria. This does not bode well for the next four years that the people I turn to for intelligence and sanity are just throwing their hands up.