Factory Fitted Drivers in Railway Models - Do we really want them, and if so why?

The provision of drivers in models has been a somewhat controversial issue in the past, with model manufacturers claiming that modelers preferred to install their own crew, and some more vocal modelers echoing the same sentiment. But the results of the recent poll on this channel shows a very different story. It's time to take a closer look.
00:00 - Introduction
00:58 - Poll Details and Results
03:28 - Rationale for each option
08:13 - Proposal for manufacturers
Link to community page for the poll which still remains open: www.youtube.com/@EuviRail/com...
Please share your thoughts in the comments with your rationale for any particular preference.
Thanks for watching.

[@AllensTrains]

A valuable locomotive would not normally be left in a siding on a 1:1 scale layout, but this is frequently the practice on a 1:76 scale layout! The fact that a loco has a driver gives the impression that the loco is in use, whereas without the driver, it appears to be abandoned. Having figures on your layout is an important psychological trick in railway modelling which makes a layout much more believable. So many layouts have a surreal quality with empty and driverless trains serving empty platforms! Thanks for uploading.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. Too many of us have layouts that look like they came from the Covid era, with nobody around!

[@97SEMTEX]

I want drivers, the DCC trains with cab lights make it very noticeable when they aren't fitted.

[@EuviRail]

This is a point I forgot to include so thanks for bring it up. Those large well lit cabs look really bare without a driver.

[@clivemortimore8203]

Train drivers only have the cab lights on when preparing to drive a train. They turn them off when driving especially at night, just like car drivers don't drive with the interior light on.

[@andymacmac9151]

When Bachmann removed pre installed drivers, it was a purely cost cutting/profit boosting excercise.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks Andy

[@stephendavies6949]

As an "average" modeller, I would love to see pre-fitted drivers. They add a level of realism for modellers like me.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks Stephen.

[@hotdogpilot6319]

I just remember when Bachmann stopped putting drivers in... It was unanimously noticed and people realised how they actually missed them.

[@EuviRail]

Yeah, I first noticed them vanish with the Class 90s and then all the re-tooled locos.

[@godlydestroyer8658]

The only issue I have with fitted drivers/passengers is that every loco would look the same if you have a fleet of them. As you said, having a removable cab would work very well to sort this. It would be really good having accurate uniforms for them, as it's always a pain trying to find photos to pain my own drivers

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. Yeah, if you have a fleet from the same era, this will definitely be a problem. I think that Accurascale have shown that a variety of drivers can be created which is the flexibility 3D printers give you. One for the manufacturers to solve perhaps.

[@irishsixtysixfanGbrf66739]

Well some models are a nightmare to get the bodyshell off especially with some Bachmann models like the class 70 is a massive pain in the backside to get the bodyshell off as its got so many screws underneath and the hattons class 66 is very annoying as its details is connected to the bodyshell and the cab interiors is clipped to the bodyshell same with the dapol 59 and 68

[@EuviRail]

100%, hence this needs to be a design consideration from day one on any locos that are undergoing a re-design / re-tooling. We're stuck with the old ones unfortunately.

[@PeachyTT120]

Good video, excellent ideas and yes I voted for drivers. I especially like your ideas for driver diversity. I’m also interested to know if you ever get any feedback from manufacturers.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. Historical feedback on this topic has tended to be negative. I haven't seen any wrt to this video. Given the decisive nature of the poll feedback, i don't expect to see any, but would welcome it if it comes!

[@marksinthehouse1968]

When hornby took over the class 56 ex mainline/Dapol model they still put a the driver and second man it’s annoying when reviews I’ve seen say someone’s added a driver hehe its standard bud 😮,it’s a nice touch as I hate having to add them now as todays models are so fragile or complicated to open and reassemble , Cheers 😊😊

[@EuviRail]

Thanks Mark

[@ozziecatuk3668]

Great Video as usual my friend. I only buy sound fitted models nowadays because of the hassle of taking the body off to fit decoders with detailing on models so fine and so easily damaged by removing the body. I would love to have crew in locos factory fitted so long as they look convincing unlike Bachmann of which I have a few with drivers fitted that even from a distance don't look good at all.

[@EuviRail]

I do the same for the same reasons. I essentially want the "full package" incl. a driver so that I can enjoy the loco out of the box. Thanks for commenting.

[@johncunningham6928]

My own preference would be for easily accessible cabs... They can be a nightmare to get into... As for diversity, Modelu are doing their best, but they are, as far as I know, now the only firm producing 3D-printed figures. They need our support!

[@stephendavies6949]

I agree. The risk of damage is very high.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks John and thanks for calling out Modulu as a good source for people to use.

[@waynemeakin]

I missed this poll but I would like a pre installed driver. The least they could do would be to include one in the accessories pack.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. One in the accessory pack with easy cab access and I'd be happy.

[@davekirk100]

Why not go a stage further, and ask about passengers in coaches? Most passenger coaches, especially those with fitted lights are so unrealistic when always empty. A selection of passenger figures, either pre-fitted or for the modeller to install would add to the cost, but would many prefer to pay extra for the realism?

[@EuviRail]

I'm with you Dave. A lighted coach with passengers is the real deal. Too many ghost trains out there with neither.

[@RonCooper-nl4pn]

There is nothing worse than seeing a locomotive trundling along crew less ! Especially in ‘O’ gauge ! I fit crews in all my models and I use Blue Tack for my 4 & 7 mm locos including Diesels. They can then be removed if a loco is on Shed.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that Ron. Yeah, O gauge just highlights the vacant cab even more.

[@andrewmeah3082]

I like the idea Hornby are now doing with providing a painted driver and fireman crew for stam locos so you have the option to fit them if you want to.If theory are for diesels I think the manufacturers should profit a driver but only attach with black tac so if you don't want to have the driver he can be removed without causing any glue damage I understand that some people do not want to try and fit there own crew and fearing damage to the models that cost so much money nowadays they are scared to try and fit there own finally the crew you can get are very poor so maybe it is down to the manufacturer to improve the standard of crew

[@EuviRail]

Thanks Andrew. Including a crew in the detailing kit is definitely to be welcomed. With 3D printing so pervasive now, the means is there now to create decent figures so lets hope for more of the same.

[@user-gt2jh1eb4l]

Drivers needed 100%

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that.

[@jsma9999]

cost is main reason, Footplate crew is in Diesel is Yes

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for commenting.

[@mrhaggit]

personally, im not bothered either way about wether there is driver in loco cab or not. just my opinions and excellent video .Leon

[@euviga]

Thanks Leon.

[@Teesbrough]

Thanks for picking up my issue about wanting to reflect today’s greater diversity of drivers. Hopefully, manufacturers of model people will recognise this too. It’s an argument for preferring to install my own drivers though. My layout is an end-to-end as there’s insufficient space for loops. So, 50% of the time any pre-installed drivers would be in the wrong cab; never a problem with steam locos!

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that.

[@peterm7548]

I generally avoid fitting a driver if access to the cab is difficult. I do fit drivers into cabs that are easy to access such as the Hornby Class 73 or 47 and often put one at each end. Then the driver in the reverse end can be explained away as a "guard" or the like. Equally the drivers many not get on and prefer to sit apart! I guess I fall into the prefer a pre-installed driver so that more of my locos had a driver. Even a fairly cheap driver figure is better than none when looking at the loco from the usual "helicopter" operating height above the layout. I reckon a decent model driver should add about £10-15 to the cost of the model which isn't much if you are talking of a total price of around £200-300.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for sharing that. If your cab lighting is directional, then having the 2nd driver might not be as obvious at least.

[@johnoneill5661]

I remember watching a video a while ago from one of the German companies (sorry can't remember which one ) where a driver was fitted at both ends and when you changed directions he laid down out of sight and the driver at the other end revolved up into view, which I thought was a great feature.

[@EuviRail]

100%. There's a nice suggestion. I'd prefer this than the nth level of underbody detail that you may end up weathering over anyway. Thanks John.

[@johnoneill5661]

@@EuviRail I'm baffled why they put so much detail on the underneath as unless you are going to model accidents or derailments your never going to see the "Amazing Detail" 🤔🤔🤔😆😆

[@lucysblade]

My concern with fitted drivers is that either they will be poor quality or we will be ramping up the price with quality detail. Easy access to the cab is a no brainier. Fitting decoders to ‘DCC ready’ locos is already a nightmare…..and then there is magnet replacement…..

[@EuviRail]

The irony is that the cheapest locos tend to have the easiest access!

[@LetsGo_41]

For me I would prefer to have drivers fitted by the manufacturer. My experience of fitting drivers into the Dapol Class 68 and Accurascale Class 92 was fraught with nightmares as access was not easy. I would have preferred to have had the drivers I bought fitted. Fighting drivers I bought was easy on the Accurascale Class 37 as the design was totally different to the 92. However, if I had the option. I would have selected drivers to be pre fitted before the model was sent out to me. Just to save a lot of hassle and worry that model will get damaged in the attempt to fit a driver. If you wanted to go for option 3 then you could use Black Tack which is strong enough to hold the drivers but easy to remove if the modeller wanted to use different drivers and it doesn't leave any cosmetic damage.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. You shouldn't have to go through that for the sake of having a driver figure in the cab.

[@LetsGo_41]

@@EuviRail Yeah, maybe one of the conclusions is that like there is a universal stand dcc chips maybe there is for cab design to make it easier.

[@timpeel4386]

On higher spec locos definitely. On Hornby railroad no. Accurascale models were easy to fit, as was fitting a DCC decoder.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. Ironically, access is usually not a problem with Railroad locos but some of them can't even accommodate a driver! While the survey doesn't distinguish, I would tend to think that Railroad locos would be bottom of the list for including drivers.

[@chrisreynolds7412]

Adding drivers is a nightmare now models are so detailed. I would rather have one fitted than try myself and end up with a pile of bits at the end of the job.

[@lucitonstjames3925]

Diesel locos fitted with crew started with Mainline with its Warship / class 03 & 56 back in the early 80's . Given the Mainline models cost the same as the Hornby & Lima models it was a major step forwards. Bachmann carrying the practise forwards. With the Lima & Hornby models it was always a doddle getting the models undone & fitting the Preiser figures or the German Lufftwaffe crew that resembled BR's drivers. The Mainline models easy enough to undo & remove the staff / at that time BR moving to single manning & so the extra crew could be distributed about to other locos. The Bachmann 66 & 70 i have have the crew fitted , the Dapol 68's , 2 of them , the cabs are in that tight , you just cant get them out & so they run driverless which is a bit annoying . but endemic of the garden shed engineering that bedevils the new tools.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for sharing. The point regarding space in the cab is a very valid one and another reason for the manufacturer to find or create a suitable driver that will fit, even if it's supplied as a detailing part.

[@clivemortimore8203]

I model a terminus station with attached stabling point. Having a driver in the leading cab only works when the train enters he station, he looks a bit of a twit driving from the rear cab on leaving the station. Then in between duties he looks like "billy no mates" having his snap in the cab of his engine not sitting in the drivers lobby. Now a solution to the first problem is a driver both ends. That is OK to a degree with locomotives but an 8 car DMU formed of four 2 car sets not only do you have a driver in the rear cab but another six pillocks staring at each other in the intermediate cabs. As for the bloke sent to Coventry for strike braking and isn't welcomed in the drivers mess, any ideas?

[@EuviRail]

Hi Clive, thanks for sharing this use case. The other issue of course is that the 4 drivers if they were pre-fitted, would all look the same. This is where easy cab access and easy removal is required. As for the strike breaker, Accurascale have already modelled him. He's the member of the Class 55 crew who has to eat his sandwich in the cab!

[@modelrailfan37]

I wish crew were fitted. It doesn’t add much extra cost, and avoids damaging the model in order to get into the cab. Also, how is a locomotive ready to run if there is nobody to drive it? That’s just my opinion though.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. A lot of folks agree with you.

[@supstersmodelrailways3202]

Hi. I’d definitely like drives fitted in both steam and diesel. With the diesels I sometimes find that a loco runs better in one direction. So usually have that as the “front”. Either way, I’d be happy to have crew fitted at both ends. Not prototypical I know. Same goes for coaches. Fit passengers! Some coaches are a nightmare to get into. And with lights being fitted more often, seeing empty stock is not a good look.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. I'm with you all the way. Lighted cabs and coaches look so bare with nobody onboard. Even 10 figures in a coach can take the bare look away.

[@trevorgarner5803]

without a crew on board we now have a runaway train situation simulated ,looks abit odd and what do the passengers think o thats okay they haven't got a brain anyway .The crew are a major part of the loco,if they are there the loco is operational whether stationary or moving ,it looks the part and brings the layout too life . Just my thoughts anyway big yes .

[@EuviRail]

Thanks Trevor. I guess most of our runaway trains won' have any passengers either!

[@alanwagstaff16]

I just think for what you pay a driver should be fitted.

[@EuviRail]

Agree, even if it's just part of the detailing kit and so long as it's easy to install.

[@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway]

Locomotives supplied with crew are often eBay type100 in quality poor examples in colours no shades of colour. I've purchased crew from Accurascale colour 3d printed figures. While the detail is there, the print in colour is poor. I feel the ModelU and paint yourself to be my future option event better once I've been scanned and resin printed. Accurascale score high for access to all area's

[@EuviRail]

Yeah, agree on the Accurascale front. Hand painted Airfix figures I did when I was 10 were better than most of what you'll get today!

[@billmmckelvie5188]

Providing they are relistcally painted that's okay there is nothing worse than a solid blue driver who look's like he's about get a tune out of the cab for the blue man group! (Old Hornby class 25). Not having one at all is no good! I am big believer in making the model railway a close match to Hamburg miniture wonderland, cost permitting!

[@EuviRail]

LOL. Thanks Bill, couldn't agree with you more. They need to be decent, representative figures.

[@billmmckelvie5188]

@@EuviRail Thanks, looking at Bachmann's Scencraft figures which were £2 per each in a pack of five. They were good value so that's all it costs at retail and obviously a lot less at produce, to add a figure to a Diesel/Electric or £4 for two to a Steam loco. Given the expensive price of locos and almost a captive market as we have to pre-order when a loco is announced at least put a figure or two in it, to me it is just good customer service to reward your 'almost captive customers' with that little bit extra!

[@Celtic2Realms]

Its just hard to get staff these days

[@EuviRail]

LOL

[@Mapplewell_Park]

Definitely a driver fitted type of guy. It’s just another layer of detail. Looks like a ghost train otherwise. I think Bachmann now not installing them is purely a cost saving exercise

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. Yeah, it's a pity Bachmann have taken that approach.

[@user-gg3lz4bw4o]

Put my own crews in as the ones they use are rubbish.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks. I would expect more to be of a similar view.

[@sapphirejunction8993]

I don't want drivers at all, looks silly in diesels when you have cabs at each end and when running in reverse just looks odd with the drivers at the wrong end, none of my diesel loco's have drivers. You can get away with it in a Steam Loco because of the single cab.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks. Easy access so that you can add or remove should help keep us all happy.

[@sapphirejunction8993]

@@EuviRail How about a DCC or DC Switch function where the factory installed driver flips into the floor for no driver and flips back when you want a driver, that would be a feature & a half.