LET'S ARGUE: CLB Aged Better Than Donda

[@Apsburner9717]

Let’s argue: Drake Stans enjoy the bare minimum

[@TheDAWinz]

Anything for a good Drake and Drive

[@beigegecko]

Drake stans have that post-covid taste

[@Tocinos]

They enjoy a lot of things bare

[@z3ro_yt970]

I 100% agree

[@ZJtraylor]

Facts

[@solomonpnq]

Really love the more artistic and avant-garde intros Anthony is doing now, adds some spice

[@gabrielgrgic6838]

tf is avant garde about this

[@solomonpnq]

@@gabrielgrgic6838 the sound effects are quite experimental, like Death Grips!!

[@YoramBrizuela]

thatistheplan nostalgia hits hard

[@alienplatypus7712]

​@@gabrielgrgic6838Got some nice DHMISesque Muppets-Horrorcore style to it but more overtly upbeat and in your face, really thatistheplanifying it.

[@MAR10WORLD]

some Ice Spice

[@dappunk1]

I feel like we’re starting to lose sight of what “aged” really means. I’ve seen with my own eyes people talking about how an album that came out 3 months ago has aged and it’s weird

[@nusoul]

It's because the people saying shit like that are kids and their perception of time has been fucked by TikTok and KZbin Shorts. Most everyone's attention spans have been cut down over the years, so our discourse surrounding shit like this has arrived to where it is now... People thinking CLB has aged like a fine wine in less than 3 fucking years.

[@anentityhiddenabovethestars]

holy shit thank you, I've been seeing shit like this and I'm like "but it came out a month ago tf are you on about"

[@okagron]

It applies to nostalgia as well, how there used to be a "rule" that in order to have nostalgia for something that thing would need to be at least 10 years old. Now we have people claiming to have nostalgia for like a year ago and i'm like "you still have vivid memories of that time, that can't be nostalgia".

[@nickymirks2671]

@@nusoulperfectly put

[@clandon9624]

@@okagronyeah but no. Nostalgia is simply yearning for a time that has passed us on. If per say, Covid was amazing for your adolescent self, now you are older and have responsibilities. It’s absolutely possible to have nostalgia for things even just two years ago, or last year. Words are words and there meanings change

[@ethanwiens7500]

that intro has me thinking that anthony’s golden years are still ahead of us

[@lordbauer5983]

Ironic, considering this is tapping into his meme past.

[@mryan89]

@@lordbauer5983Alanis? That you?

[@biosavat9475]

@@mryan89 Ryan is that you ?

[@bryson0206]

​@@biosavat9475 John is that you?

[@liam-hu3qx]

Ayo, is that you?@@bryson0206

[@matt_c80]

Frank Ocean is in a The Incredibles 2 situation

[@THERANDOMEPICGUY]

You just coined a great new term my brudda

[@HHPYE42]

ima start using this term thanks

[@Meme_Lor]

So overrated and will somehow make something even worse? Edit: for reference I haven't listened to a single second of Frank's music, not a rap guy sorry, I just love taking shots at Pixar

[@Yayday4evr]

@@Meme_Lor no way bro implied Frank is a rap artist

[@thedogfromraditude5449]

@@Meme_Lorit’s not rap, it’s R&B and art pop with a very occasional rap feature.

[@SpankerSauce]

CLB doesn’t have Off the Grid nor does it have the globgogabgalav

[@Iamdelivered7]

EXACTLY

[@tomfriendly2412]

FACTS BROTHER

[@catsouplover7745]

imagine the best song of the album being carried by favio

[@dhaval8100]

​​​@@catsouplover7745noway Flavio carried, kanye and Flavio both had insane verses Also the best song? Life of the party Moon Praise God Jesus lord Come to life New again 24 Off the grid was fire yea it's the only hype song but not the best imo

[@Goated_EddieBrock]

​@@dhaval8100new again ain't better than off the grid 💀

[@JDdude-ch1ep]

Now with Drake's allegations are everywhere, CLB is certainly did not age well.

[@Alex-xl8fc]

The Donda/CLB era was a strange one. It felt like Kanye re-ignited a cult following overnight and the sentiment surrounding him and the beef in general was toxic. I got the sense that there was a full generation of new listeners discovering their love for his legendary catalog for the first time. It was a lot. From my standpoint Donda was a solid project and CLB was mediocre but not terrible. There was hyperbole pushing one up and the other down and now that the teenage Kanye phase is over the general opinion is regressing to where it should be. Donda is still the better album but the emotion isn't amplifying the gap anymore.

[@lordbauer5983]

This Kanye cycle literally happened for every album post-Graduation. 1. Kanye drops new major EP that’s radically different from the last 2. Fans listen to it obsessively for a week straight 3. They start killing each other over whether Kanye finally dropped a “bad” album or not 4. Kanye does some stupid shit on the internet for attention, drawing mainstream backlash against him 5. All the reactionaries either get bored or actually get around to listening to the album 6. Kanye dominates the charts once again Happens without fail every single time. You can basically chart out each phase as it’s happening.

[@MrP1nk92]

insane we’re calling this an “era” when it was like last year lol

[@nevadanate4957]

@@MrP1nk92 "era" = fall 2021 lol

[@lordbauer5983]

@@MrP1nk92 Every album cycle is an “era.”

[@Ninjagoman99]

Y Nnn

[@LukeSeymour04]

let’s agree: these videos need to be longer

[@Brokenscam]

Yes…but I like that this video is 9:11 long.

[@dandydrew613]

​@BrokensCam mind sharing where you were about... oh let's say.... 22 years ago? 🤨🤔

[@Brokenscam]

@@dandydrew613 I don’t remember…

[@themaddestvillain-g4q]

Ain’t no way some people think that CLB aged better than Donda 😭

[@iangarcia1585]

Twitter Users☕️

[@iangarcia1585]

"But actually they change it to X"🤓

[@RSG_TheMonster]

Drake Stans ☕☕☕

[@very250]

Nah I can’t lie that’s true I come back to certified lover boy more than Donda I can’t lie I hated on certified lover boy for no reason when it dropped only cause I was a little Kanye Stan 😂😂😂 clb is a really good album with countless great songs

[@FaresFares-et2ci]

Man let's be real , donda is boring asf , yes I did like the album very much in 2021 , I played it for like a month and done , CLB is more daily listen album , when it came out I couldn't even get through the whole album But eventually it grow on me ,and now on daily basis I listen to at least 2 songs from CLB

[@fromtheslumsofshaolin6957]

the random weird trippy experimental stuff on each Beatles album is a big part of what makes them so great for me.

[@ace15Nura]

Hi, Anthony. I got my results from 23andme. It says you're my dad. My mom says she met you at a Blind Melon concert in the 90s. You told her you were from Italy and were on vacation. And you never call her again.

[@AGETheGawdYT]

More obscure things are being popular in rap now tbh. Trap isnt really the only prominent sound (albeit the most popular). Experimental stuff, Tuned Vocals, Live Instrumentation, out of pocket mixing techniques, experimentation are prominent in some of the most popular artists of the genre.

[@kahys2377]

name em

[@AGETheGawdYT]

@@kahys2377 name artists doing that? Uhhhh....J.I.D., Freddie Gibbs, Badass, Cole, Kendrick, Tyler, Chance..I mean Trap is the most prominent for sure but the techniques I mentioned are making a comeback. It's bleeding into other genres too, Bruno, Anderson Paak, Pop artists and shit. Igor number 1 rap album, and it's not Trap. I love Trap and it's here to stay and it's influenced everything, I was just pointing out more obscure music making a comeback. Experimentation. Which usually can also involve Trap influence 💯

[@sonikku956]

@@AGETheGawdYT I wouldn't call Igor a hip hop album. It has rapping, but it has more in common with neo soul music (which is influenced by hip hop but is ultimately its own thing).

[@David-bh6ce]

The comment at 0:39 calling Fantano a nerd was lowkey hilarious

[@person1232]

That intro is a masterpiece.

[@girlfriendg]

looooved the editing on this one!!! shoutout to ryan!

[@CypressDahlia]

How can something age better if it wasn't good, real talk

[@jay_344]

this is actually a really interesting question

[@NeutralMjolkHotel]

It’s not a contradiction. A record could just be sonically or thematically ahead of its time, initially being panned but later being celebrated. It’s happened before many times. To be clear though, CLB does not fit that bill.

[@okagron]

@@NeutralMjolkHotel Yeah, if anything CLB will age like trash since it's drenched in production tropes of the early 2020s.

[@ashdin3628]

be honest when was the last time u listened to CLB. im not even a drake fan but damn that shit was good i relistened to it the other day and i was really impressed. i genuinely think people only hate it for the bad cover and the lesbian bar on girls want girls. if u relisten youll find a lot more value then before trust me

[@bungaIowbill]

compare your 1000 dollar steak to a 20 cent pack of crackers a year later

[@DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly]

That beatles take is an anti ringo dog whistle

[@Meme_Lor]

Octopus's Garden is a banger and those who disagree aren't real Beatles fans

[@bernadettebread]

someone casually saying “ringo wasn’t even the best drummer in the beatles!” is when i immediately dismiss all their opinions

[@FirionLeFleur]

Dude every trans person I know is a fan of Death Grips and Fallout New Vegas. It's an omnipresent stereotype now.

[@benamisai-kham5892]

Sometimes you gotta throw sonic and ddr into that mix

[@FirionLeFleur]

@@benamisai-kham5892 TRUE! All sonic fans are some flavor of gay, myself included.

[@yhavinmiles]

@@FirionLeFleuri hate sonic

[@coffeevie]

If it’s not New Vegas then it’s Bloodborne (or both) Source: me a trans person obsessed with nv and bb

[@rateeightx]

I'm trans and I am not (yet) a fan of Death Grips. Still planning to check them out more sometime though, So that may well change.

[@EnglishAndFilm]

loved the take on The Beatles' album consistency and Anthony's reply

[@klavakisya]

All I know is that "This might be the return of the Throne" line did not age well

[@scapegoat4]

I love people who say vtuber concerts are the future/ arrogantly shill for them, because vocaloid concerts had a similar concept over a decade ago (the "world is mine" live performance is 13 years old now iirc) AND are STILL often better in terms of choreography and design. Most vtubers can't even do proper full body tracking, they just wiggle back and forth and mix it up with some simple animations lmao

[@Anaxistratus]

"Most vtubers can't even do proper full body tracking. They just wiggle back and forth and mix it up with some simple animations" Hard disagree on that because if you look at large VTuber agency like Hololive, they do have 3D concerts with good body tracking. The ones you're describing are mostly independent, whose resources are often limited.

[@elektra8535]

What You are saying only applies to small corpos or indies without that much budget. For example Hololive and Nijisanji which are the biggest vtuber companies have a really good body tracking for their concerts. If You want to know what the look like search for hololive 3rd or 4th fes.

[@Shiratto]

⁠@@AnaxistratusThey said most for a reason

[@clandon9624]

@@ShirattoI disagree, they did not intend on being charitable

[@Shiratto]

@@clandon9624 Even still that’s the case for a lot of small v tubers which is the majority

[@EdibleGlue369]

Lol I love your edits. (The editor, Ryan. Not you Anthony)

[@RSG_TheMonster]

Donda has aged better than I expected! Can't say the same about CLB though...

[@firstlast9846]

CLB got better for me.. but Donda’s still the better album

[@lordbauer5983]

The only cut on there that’s aged like wine for me is “Get Along Better.”

[@a_brodo3158]

2 years isn’t really enough to talk about albums aging IMO

[@AntiVectorTV]

Editor KILLING it with the intros man, this is great!

[@bitticlan]

The intros are getting more and more high effort sheesh

[@ethanielclyne5810]

That period of time was probably the last time I've been that excited for competitiveness in hip hop. Drake and kanye coming back properly for the first time in a couple years and dropping at the same time, only for little simz to have the best album of the lot

[@Misfit_Minded]

You went crazy with the edits on this one. lol. Keep up the good work.

[@lukecrossley]

i think fantano's description here of the expectations and pressure on frank ocean's next release to live up to blonde is almost exactly the same as how people react to damn and mm&tbs post-tpab

[@Theredeyedjedi]

That is the best intro ever lol. You should keep that as an intro

[@xXMachineGunPhillyXx]

These intros are Academy award-winning epics. Have you guys hired Peter Jackson yet?

[@jonahjohnson9414]

Your editor took a day off and you immediately put him into the let’s argue mines when he came back

[@BirdsBeach]

Dearest Sir Melon Mantano, I am a longtime fan who often shuffles my KZbin “Watch Later” playlist and falls asleep to it. I felt you should know that, earlier this week, one of your videos must have come on shuffle while I was sleeping, which my slumbering subconscious translated to you appearing in my dream. In this aforementioned dream, we were in my childhood bedroom (in a not-weird way I promise), having a Gal Pal Slumber Party. We built a fort of sheets and talked about pop singers and boys we thought were cute. We played video games and ate pizza and got yelled at for being loud by my dad. As a longtime fan, I must regrettably admit I am now struggling to view your videos in the same light. Instead of the Internet’s Busiest Music Nerd, I now see my Slumber Party Gal Pal. You were lots of fun and we giggled a lot. I am not sure what do to with this information, so I figured I might as well curse your comment section with it. Thanks for the giggles bestie! Sincerely, Your Slumber Party Gal Pal (This is not a joke I seriously can’t believe I dreamed this and I feel weird now please send help)

[@dpoisonedburritos]

Everytime I get even a whiff of thatistheplan vibes in melon's videos, the void in my soul gets filled for another few months.

[@MattDoesEverything]

I fucking love you anthony, please don't come out as a sex pest or commit suicide!

[@zylee7]

I partially agree. I hope he doesn't become or be outed as a sex pest. Fingers crossed waiting for the rest

[@wufeiyan]

Ok Dr. Seuss@@zylee7

[@SumeriyaYaxlaka]

Bro..

[@ulu666]

Wtf is this comment and Wtf is the first response?

[@zway5881]

The entire Frank Ocean thing just feels like Chinese Democracy part 2 tbh

[@mr.froglegs]

Probably. Can't wait until it happens so i can laugh.

[@tennisracket166]

Can't wait for our next trip to Music Opionland

[@maxsmart9116]

Melon declared we had reached "Peak Trap" 6 or 7 years ago, but here we are 😞

[@Jonze78]

There were more wardrobe changes in this video then a T. Swift concert.

[@brvdyy]

I can’t say I have a single song from Donda or CLB in any of my playlists. It’s funny that people are making the age argument so soon rather than waiting 10 years for a true answer. Tiktok patience

[@theslugboiii5969]

Frank Ocean is the Half Life of music

[@mr.froglegs]

Nah, unlike Half Life, the next frank ocean album isn't going to be good.

[@HawksNestYT]

I haven’t replayed a single CLB song and I’m a longtime Drake normie, Donda was my first Kanye release since I got into his music so it sits with me very differently.

[@iancraig5415]

Bro who said DG is gecs for terfs clearly hasn’t seen the amount of trans girls that pull up to a DG show

[@thescoobymike]

At the beginning I thought he said “you know, your music death”

[@sabpac459]

CLB aged horribly after 45 minutes

[@Canesugar7683]

I think a lot of the Beatles' later albums are really consistently good. The White Album did have a lot of weird random songs, but I liked most of them. Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road are consistently good.

[@kevinlx59]

Never expected an Ironmouse reference in a Fantano vid but here we are. Also mans must be smoking some strong stuff to make that CLB take.

[@josephbartholomew]

His editor seems to be a fan.

[@mufoitzzz8798]

He just hates Kanye

[@wadekemmsies7180]

The runtime for this video is a little suspicious anthony 🤔✈️🏢🏢

[@rive_1283]

The Peggy and Danny Brown shirt is hard ngl

[@knickknack675]

Let’s argue: this has been the best let’s argue intro so far

[@DevareayWilliams]

“where does rap go after trap?” I really hope it goes in the direction of Jpegmafia and Danny brown, but theres no way that ever really becomes mainstream, it would be sick though

[@EdgyEdG]

Anthony clearing the "he refuses to talk about kanye now" allegations

[@kbong2574]

While talking about The Beatles and albums of their time it's important to acknowledge 3 things: 1: The idea of a popular music album as a consistent form of art begins fully only in the 60s which means a lot of bands, including Beatles, were just throwing stuff to the wall and see what sticks, its hard to judge them in modern day as its hard to judge 80s rappers that their flow is not as smooth as modern rappers (not saying first rappers had bad flow, just example) 2. At the beginning of 60s most pop and rock and roll albums were just the same song with same chords with similiar lyrics themes sang almost the same way, (with exceptions ofc) so im not suprised some people got tired of that and decided that they want more flexibility on their songs. Albums like Revolver or White Album are actually liked BECAUSE they're melodically inconcistent 3. Beatles themselves were tired of doing the same love songs over and over so they would purposefully create bizarre songs just to see with what kind of sound they can still get away and remain popular

[@Greaseball01]

Top comment 👍

[@Meme_Lor]

Another thing: Sgt Pepper is amazing and not boring

[@TomasZombieDogGame]

I always think about Imagine living in 1965 and then hearing Revolver when it dropped. For them it must have been crazy, hearing an album that sounded nothing like modern music and would still slap 60 years later

[@estebanb7166]

“Melodically inconsistent” Hmm… not sure what you mean by this phrase.

[@Greaseball01]

@@estebanb7166 the songs don't all sound the same

[@nnarcus]

thank you nice youtuber. I appreciate these entertaining videos

[@xwexarexbulletsx]

Both albums are just 2 years old damn it why are people talking about aging. I've seen cheese age quicker than these two albums. I've seen divorces still in process before AND after the albums were released. Aging? These albums are still here, man.

[@Idunnoyouguessit]

It's huge when you were 16 two years ago.

[@zurieljansky28]

LOL what in the hell were those Blues Clue's background at the beginning 😂🤣

[@itsjustmax7861]

For every yellow submarine there’s a wild honey pie

[@IamIr0nMan]

Really enjoyed the editing on this one

[@Ler-ky1tz]

This intro is an instant classic that will be played at Anthony's funeral.

[@palchristianandersen9086]

The thing you have to remember about the Beatles is that they were known as the fabolous four from liverpool. There was John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Star, and together they were known as the beatles.

[@Iamdelivered7]

Donda probably won’t be considered “aged well” till the year 2031

[@thomasblack9038]

More like 2033 the way things are going

[@0uas]

I instantly thought about Andre 3000 when you started talking about Frank Ocean

[@Cool_Hand_Luke]

Let's argue: the pain will never end

[@mechabubba]

the intros get better and better

[@bruhhhead]

Considering artists like Billie Eilish, Smino & Isiah Rashad are thriving with ‘zoomers’, I feel like Frank Ocean will do just fine with the younger generation when (if) he decides to drop an album

[@jxlulzo]

The editing popped off in this video for sure

[@niknik166]

Unless frank ocean drops the new album in 2025. I can wait one more year.

[@cmrdjn464]

It's funny because literally there were more trans people at the death grips show than the 100 gecs shows i saw this year

[@PrincipalSkinner3190]

Wait, people listen to CLB more than once?

[@SwooshJush83]

Wait

[@vinceeager8553]

I will wait, I will wait for yooou

[@sanghrashsirsikar5420]

Wait what's a CLB

[@atharvapd]

i mean theres a few good songs on the album ( n 2 deep , fair trade , tsu , race my mind ) which has some replay value but the rest of the album is kinda mid

[@explicitcomments]

@@sanghrashsirsikar5420i think it’s like a sandwich or smthin

[@denizi6323]

melon, what do you mean you don't love me individually? do you want an open relationship?

[@WhoaNellyJake]

What you were talking about with Frank Ocean is exactly how I felt with Utopia. I waited for so long, and while I enjoy multiple tracks, I think it’s pretty disappointing

[@light687]

@103.5Heaveneryou can’t love 2 different eras/styles of music? If someone with a rock profile said they didn’t like a pop album would you have this same reaction? Probably not. So why can’t someone who like Jazz boom bap rap like something like Utopia? I love both of those albums

[@jesus.e126]

I think artists waiting such a long time shouldn’t effect your expectations even thought 99% of the time it will. It sucks, because no matter what it’ll never meet standards.

[@nevanoconnell3356]

I mean 100gecs and Death Grips also have radically different sounds, just because they are both abrasive doesn't mean they are the same.

[@grogu1986]

0:13 and here we have Anthony’s audition for the Teletubbies baby

[@WiloPolis03]

*"I don't want to live anymore. In Minecraft"* Anthony is a Vowshite confirmed 😳😳

[@Greaseball01]

Donda and CLB have both completely left my brain already

[@Xenlavian]

"After trap, where does rap music go?" To hell, hopefully

[@jubeat4451]

trans people loving death grips is an actual stereotype, what were they talking about

[@juanpabloadame3734]

The weird shit in Beatles albums is precisely part of the cool factor. Besides, I’m not so sure that other contemporary groups were all that much more consistent.

[@lagos2145]

haven’t watched but donda aged better, anything else is a horrible take

[@Joybuzzer64]

Look, all im saying is only one of those albums had "You say that you're a lesbian, girl me too"

[@theepicdoge8045]

These video edits are HARD

[@radical6905]

how long til Anthony reviews a vtuber LP we reckon

[@MelonMan666]

Loving the intros, fellow Melon. They're really fun!

[@samhill618]

„Consistent” is just a nice word for boring or „all the shit sounds the same“…

[@cheerfuljuan]

DONDA is a great album. Not perfect by any means, but still great

[@mittroast]

Loved the intro 😂❤

[@FarAway959]

The slander of calling death grips TERF music is insane.

[@JowanCollier]

Hard Days Night and Help are consistent af,

[@zachstolpa6521]

Rap is going one of three direction eventually. More Rock based fusion, more r&b based fusion or more international flavor especially with Latin American artists becoming more popular.

[@alejandroserrano7755]

I mean we already saw a peak on rock fusion with all the emo rap artist that made it big.

[@zachstolpa6521]

@@alejandroserrano7755 yeah but I’m talking like on a mainstream level

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

No, it’s dying

[@zachstolpa6521]

@@mrmxyzptlk8906 that too

[@5emper5olace]

editing been on point lately

[@Spellchec]

Revolver is a consistently great album from start to finish. Yellow Submarine is a great song, and will probably the one that's remembered the longest as it becomes a children's nursery rhyme/folk song. Rubber Soul has a couple of mediocre tracks but no absolute stinkers. Abbey Road has Maxwell's Silver Hammer, but is otherwise pristine. The White Album and Sgt Pepper are experiences and experiments with some big highs. A Hard Day's Night is a solid early album with nothing terrible on it. The other early albums are somewhat excused as they were churning out 2 albums per year plus hit singles and EPs whilst also having to tour the world.

[@Meme_Lor]

I will defend Maxwell's Silver Hammer until I die

[@implicitdifferentiation]

Good Day Sunshine is the worst song ever written and I am a massive Beatles fan

[@Spellchec]

Should also be noted that The Beatles didn't put a lot of their hit singles on the albums (in the UK), so as not to ripoff the fans. Sgt Pepper would have been a lot better if Strawberry Fields Forever/Penny Lane was on it. Or Rain/Paperback Writer on Revolver. Or We Can Work It Out/Day Tripper on Rubber Soul. Or She Loves You/I Want To Hold Your Hand on one of the early albums.

[@Spellchec]

@@Meme_Lor The placement on Abbey Road is what really hurts it - Come Together - Something - then oh this.

[@Meme_Lor]

@@Spellchec it's better than Something tbh

[@program9737]

When i go back and listen to CLB , it has elements of what people were hopping all the dogs was going to be, after listening to clb it might be my favorite drake album, he rapping rapping on there

[@jamesthomas3756]

In the 2 years since Donda, CLB and Sometimes I might be introvert all dropped on the same day. Little Simz definitely stands out as having the best album and having the most long term impact

[@Khazuki_]

that intro is a cinematic masterpiece

[@jorssu13]

CLB didn't get to age, because it was a miscarriage.

[@Lucid_Avery]

"CLB has aged better than Donda" is a bad take that borders on mental illness.

[@eastonsaccount]

I was going over the Donda track list yesterday and DAMN I love that album

[@no-vk2qe]

Its funny because you Melon fans are always quick to be like "leave Anthony alone its his opinion" after a Trash Take like Zeppelin HOTH is a C Tier but then mock Mental illness because someone praises a Mediocre Drake Album

[@gollossalkitty]

I dunno about "bordering mental illness"* but its definitely off the grid :)

[@LuciusGeronimo]

Average yitler stan POV

[@BongoBoi416]

@@no-vk2qe uh oh somebody needs a nap

[@hendrxx9593]

Y’all cooking me but i’m happy i made the video

[@cat-zh5ut]

los pollos ahh take

[@chemtastic7705]

That intro was amazing

[@jeremieyjohn1012]

Anthony, there's no way you're saying that