Faramir and the Triumph of Humility

[@helenwalter6830]

“I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.“

[@nostalji93]

My all time favourite quote, especially since I know I feel very differently yet would like to share his attitude.

[@charissawilkinson9270]

Bingo, that's why Jackson failed with him.

[@庫倫亞利克]

This reminds me of Enjolras' quote from Les Miserables. "Love, the future belongs to you. Death, I loathe you, but right now I must use you." Virtuous men never glorify violence, but viewed it as something that must be done to save lives.

[@iservHim]

I think our beloved professor may have taken inspiration from G.K. Chesterton when he wrote this line 😊 It gives very similar vibes to Chesterton’s classic quote: “ the true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him but because he loves what is behind him.”

[@nostalji93]

@@iservHim I disagree about the vibe. Its similar but not very similar. There is a crucial difference: IMO Tolkiens quote critiques the gorification of violence, war, heroism, which would include the idea of a "true soldier" and reveals our misguided instincts about warfare. Chestertons quote on the other hand plays right to those instincts. Its also not so much about "glory", but about hate. And if I think back to the propaganda of ww2 both ideas (loving your home and hating the enemy) were usually used to movitate humans to kill each other. The more I think about Chestertons quote I realise Tolkien was on an other level of understanding.

[@ninjaguysith]

Those who mock virtues see them as mirrors that reflect their shortcomings and inexperience, while those who admire them, see them as maps.

[@nont18411]

What a dig on George RR “good guys are r-tarded, evil guys are smart” Martin

[@munken7673]

@@nont18411and yet when the hero Ned died all his Lords went to war to avenge him and when his son died most of his Lords began to plot a Way to overthow his murders and make his younger brother their new Lord Long story short Ned also known as the man to honest for his own good is so loved by his people that they went to war for him and are still fighting for him after his death while Tywin the cynical brutal power hungry guy was killed by his own son because he was an awful father and his people won’t go the same lenghts for him and Cersei has been humiliated for her dumb and Awful behavior and Jeoffrey dies because he was super mean to Sansa and Birenne still belives in honor and Virtues and most likely will continue to do so and Jamie a jerk that used to mock virtue is beginning to find his faith in it again And Sorry for my bad English not my first language And my point is that GRRM don’t hate Virtue and Goodness he is just showing How Horrible People like Littefinger and Tywin and the slavemasters Can use it against Well meaning people like Ned Daenerys and Brienne and to save to World is not as simple as kill the Evil orcs PS i haven’t read LOTR so i am probably missing a lot of depht

[@munken7673]

@@nont18411then Why are Ned’s people still fighting for him while Tywin was killed by his own son and his Daughter is busy ruining his lagecy because of the bad example he sat And Sorry for my bad english not my fist language

[@nont18411]

⁠@@munken7673 Ned’s honor caused - His house to be destroyed - His wife, eldest son and youngest getting betrayed and murdered - His oldest daughter got raped - His youngest daughter turned into a psychopath killer - His living true son got crippled both physically and mentally That’s what Martin believes about what will happen to virtuous and honorable man. They are stupid and they will get taken advantage in every way shape or form. Meanwhile a genocidal dictator Tywin is portrayed as very smart, full of wisdom and his war crimes were necessary. His house only went downhill because Cersei is incompetent, not because she’s an evil person. If she’s evil but smart like Tywin, the Lannisters can still thrive unchallenged.

[@theflashgordon193]

​@@munken7673idk bro Tolkien fanboy look to have made their identity to hate martin because they are salty about some of his comments on Tolkien 😅

[@SheegogProductions]

I love how you summed this up: Faramir won by REFUSING to play the game; he won not through strength of will, but through humility. We don't get to see many characters (at least in modern interpretations) who win through humility. Also, love the Holst there at the end :)

[@joyfulyes]

The lyrics to that bit of Holst are an anthem, "I vow to thee, my country." Very appropriate for Faramir.

[@shawnthompson2303]

Sorta like Luke at the end of Return of the Jedi.

[@christopherbucher7017]

Jupiter, correct? Love that piece! Very John Williams-esque imo (yes, I'm well aware Holst came first so perhaps Williams's work is Holst-esque 😂).

[@nialltealeaf275]

@@shawnthompson2303 Exactly, hence the backlash to Jackson's choice to make him tempted in The Two Towers.

[@jmgonzales7701]

those characters would get ridculed for not being realistic

[@dhfvrfhjcfbbrfb]

Faramir is a scholar-soldier, like Tolkien himself, as well CS Lewis, Wilfred Owen, and other talented young men who fought in WWI. He is a good warrior, but he doesn’t want to kill the sensitive, cultured part of himself. This makes him very attractive to female readers. Teenage me had a huge crush on him. Faramir’s self-control is constantly emphasized, but it becomes tragic (rather than boring) when we realize that he is working incredibly hard to please an abusive father who will never accept him. Pippin notices his face when he returns from battle: “It was the face of one who has been assailed by a great fear or anguish, but has mastered it and now is quiet.” Faramir’s self-abnegation is painful to see, and so it’s very satisfying when he gets his romance with Eowyn. He’s been through too much! The drama in Faramir’s story doesn’t come from serious character flaws (like with Boromir and Denethor). Rather, it comes from his tortured relationship with his father. Faramir’s noble character is partly innate goodness and partly the result of his father’s poor treatment. He has the opposite of Main Character Syndrome: he embraces his identity as a supporting character, and that’s why it’s so easy for him to defer to Aragorn, let Frodo go, and care more about healing Eowyn’s suffering than his own. This is why every teenage girl who reads LotR wants to wrap Faramir in a big warm blanket and hug him until he feels better. ❤

[@dhfvrfhjcfbbrfb]

Ahhhhh I just had to go back and read more about Wilfred Owen. 😢 This is is the introduction to Wilfred Owen’s book of poems about WWI (written before he was killed in it): “This book is not about heroes. English Poetry is not yet fit to speak of them. Nor is it about deeds or lands, nor anything about glory, honour, dominion or power, except War. Above all, this book is not concerned with Poetry. The subject of it is War, and the pity of War.” Whenever someone says that Faramir is unrealistic or not flawed enough, I think of Wilfred Owen, of his deep compassion, learning, and bravery. I think of Tolkien and all of his young friends from school who died in the war: Geoffrey Smith, who left behind a book of poetry to which Tolkien wrote an introduction. Thomas Barnsley, who was killed “while consoling a captured prisoner.” Faramir is a tribute to such men and their very real virtues.

[@filmandfirearms]

Quite simply, he's a soldier. He knows his duty and is committed fully to it. To serve his country to its fullest, for him, simply means defeating the enemy in front of him. The ring is only a distraction from his duty, something trying to tempt him out of it and into evil. Boromir, both being the oldest son and the favored one by their father, likely saw himself as solely responsible for the fate of Gondor. With such a weight on his shoulders, the power of the ring is far more enticing. Why work tirelessly for a lifetime while countless of his subjects die in battle when you could save all that effort and suffering by using the thing which is within arms reach?

[@trenesarhodes2883]

YES!!! Faramir! ❤❤❤

[@chucksolutions4579]

@@dhfvrfhjcfbbrfbthank you for this

[@molybdaenmornell123hopp5]

As a single man who identified with Faramir when reading Lotr as a boy, this makes me happy.

[@a.s.raiyan2003-4]

I'm just imagining Denethor watching this pop up and viciously eating his breakfast while grumbling, "He should have made another Boromir video"

[@nostalji93]

I literally laughed out loud over this comment. Thank you!

[@Grivehn]

@@nostalji93 Same :D

[@a.s.raiyan2003-4]

@@nostalji93

[@frankvandorp9732]

The funny thing is that Faramir was much more similar to Denethor than Boromir was. Denethor and Faramir even had in common that they were very poorly adapted by Peter Jackson.

[@Dymodeus1]

Tomatoes for breakfast I assume

[@felixspeer2699]

"There is absolutely no way people who enjoy reading Tolkien that much would ever keep their responses to a single word." I feel called out. But nice to know that I am not the only one.

[@jayabee]

It's fair

[@MadelineBehr]

It's hard not to gush over book-Faramir and his super-humility, even if he doesn't really have a conventional arc. But he has a "function", something I believe all great supportive characters should have. Modern writing demands that every character, including very episodic ones, is fleshed out and that he or she has "agency", whereas in classical writing (particularly in fairy stories) the supporting cast fulfils a more archetypical role for the sake of the protagonist and the theme of the story. Given that Frodo was fifty and knew so much about the world thanks to Bilbo's stories, I always found that Samwise was the true protagonist, for he is the one who learns and grows the most. So, both Boromir and Faramir serve as very important lessons for Samwise: what happens when you fall into temptation, even if only for a moment, and how to avoid doing so if you're too weak to resist the majesty of power. In Mordor, when Samwise needed to use the ring to save Frodo, when Frodo asks to have it back, Samwise has a moment of hesitation -- this is better portrayed in the book than the movie, of course. Maybe, if he hadn't learned the lesson of Faramir saying no to the ring out of humility, Samwise would have kept the ring for himself. Also, in the House of Healing, Faramir's wisdomir and humility help Éowyn settle down her wish to die on the battlefield, so that makes him the greatest, in my book.

[@sajjadalhachami7574]

Good one But sorry man Boromir is better because he's realistic

[@lauraceballos9217]

I completely agree! Faramir was my favorite character in the books.

[@eirrenia]

@@sajjadalhachami7574 That’s cynicism talking. Seeing the world through shades is as unrealistic as rose colored glasses. Good men like Faramir exist. I know because I was raised by one. They still have their own issues they struggle with, they aren’t angels. But they are genuinely good. Don’t make very good story heroes though, because they’re usually smart enough to avoid the drama.

[@joyfulyes]

​@@lauraceballos9217Faramir is also the character Tolkien most identified with, himself.

[@tomsamper4345]

@@sajjadalhachami7574I’m very sorry for whatever path I life has lead you to this belief my friend, that there cannot exist this type of humility and presence of purpose. I will certainly yield to the idea that the attitude of Boromir is more prevalent among people than the humility of Faramir, but a quality’s scarcity does not equate with its reality. There are absolutely those who strive to this virtue and who have risen to it, and it has no less of a quality of reality than does its failure in a man. You will not notice them too often for that is the nature of their virtue that it does not boast, and it does not seek its own exposure. But if you seek the company of those who recognize virtue, and who attempt each day to make themselves more in line with them, then you will begin to recognize the quality, even in its incomplete form and you may even find that virtue taking hold of your own heart.

[@hanne5678]

Jackson portrays Faramir as desperately wanting his father's love. But in the book, Faramir has turned to another person who gives him love and appreciation, in the person of Gandalf. This annoys Denethor to no end and deepens the rift between them, but that is where Faramir got his knowledge and wisdom from. Jackson has made changes to almost all of the main characters, but Faramir and Frodo have suffered the most from his approach.

[@aryatawde8121]

Humility is the hardest virtue and perhaps the most important one. It’s root challenge lies in fact, that humility isn’t thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less:)

[@williamgarcilazo33]

My friend. Wow.

[@user-bl7em8sx6o]

Yeah but what if you're contemplating your issues and how to fix them?

[@aryatawde8121]

@@user-bl7em8sx6o I struggle with this balance myself, the conclusion I have reached is when you get new information( a new lesson or a painful experience to learn from) you readjust your strategy and make plans. The key for me is to not get stuck in the self evaluation and replanning stage and move on to action quickly so that you can fail fast and evolve quickly.

[@Tstep45_qr]

​@@user-bl7em8sx6o Through your contemplation, you must realise that there will always be someone better than you and as a result, we must always have the desire to be Corrected 👍

[@SautterFilm]

Faramir was the character out of all of them that offered me strength and courage as a 16 year old, when I needed something to aspire to

[@figwit-rh4mw]

Éowyn was that for me ❤

[@SautterFilm]

@@figwit-rh4mw beautiful! It took me some growing up before she resonated with me. But isn’t that the beauty of the Legendarium? It’s many-layered and has a meaning for anyone willing to pay attention.

[@plasmabat718]

For me it was Sam and Frodo, that kept going even when it seemed hopeless

[@micheleandhenrycasavant386]

Beatiful essay. Faramir makes the decision to not use the one ring because he recognizes he ISN'T immune to it's power and as you pointed out it is his humility that enables him to this understanding. The book only hints at that journey that led him to decide to not use the ring. We must keep in mind just because we don't see Faramir's decsion making journey doesn't mean he didn't have one.

[@Jacob_1997]

After seeing your Eowyn video I hoped Faramir will have his time to shine as well. My prayers have been answered. One of the best channels on the platform. Thank you!!!

[@columbien10]

Truly a video for Faramir, captain of Gondor, to show his worth

[@Steel-101]

I’ve actually read the books and the movie Faramir didn’t have me angry. The only thing that annoyed me was how the writers of the movies made Frodo trust Gollum more than Sam. Plus it was a little irritating that Frodo didn’t try to sword fight on Weathertop(he tried to fight in the book). On the plus side, I am glad Frodo punched Gollum and pushed him into mount doom.

[@master_samwise]

Yeah Frodo definitely gets broken down more in the movies than he does in the book. Again, I think that's due to Jackson really emphasizing the power of the Ring.

[@driednoodles4291]

I completely agree, I also read the book and really took no issue with the different portrayal of Faramir. To me it only shows his character more, he had the ring in his grasp and was clearly tempted yet still resists.

[@Steel-101]

@@master_samwise they did a great job with that(the burden of the ring 💍) but I just wish Frodo had a little more combat with Sting(my favorite sword 🗡️!).

[@Steel-101]

@@driednoodles4291 Plus Sam’s anger while he tells Faramir about Boromir was “chefs kiss” amazing!

[@RoseBaggins]

@@Steel-101 oh I can totally understand that, I wanted Frodo to use Sting more too!! But, despite that, Frodo is still my favorite. His strength did not lie in the use of brawn and swords, though I did wish we could have seen more of his wit and humor.

[@catwithquill]

Ah. The old Catholic "occasion of temptation" in which you know if you encounter the temptation, you may fall, so you literally avoid the situation altogether. Can't fall to temptation if you're never tempted. Not a method always applicable, considering temptation will find you wherever you are, but putting yourself in an unnecessary occasion of temptation is not a good plan. It's prideful to think you are so powerful, and pride goeth before the fall.

[@sonmi2246]

For those who dislike Faramir's character (in the book) because he is "boring"-- and by that, presumably they mean that he is a relatively static character without an arc-- I would argue that Faramir does actually have an arc, and does have a "fall" or near-fall, of sorts-- but it's in Return of the King, and it's not at all like the nature of the fall which PJ presents in the film. I'll preface this by saying that both the fall of Boromir and the fall of Dentheor are rooted in the same idea, and that is *despair* . Take Boromir: even though the direct/immediate cause of his fall was the temptation of the Ring, the *reason* that he ultimately fell to that temptation was because he had succumbed to despair; despair over the fate of Gondor, and the ability of the race of Men to overcome the forces seeking their destruction, thus despair over the ability of Good to triumph over Evil. Why else would one seek to use a device which is fundamentally evil in nature-- a nature which is explained to Boromir ad nauseam throughout the Council of Elrond-- why seek to use such an evil device, against Evil itself, unless one had utterly lost faith in the ability of Good to triumph on its own and by its own devices? And that's why despair is such a monumental sin per Tolkien's morality, thus the morality of his secondary world: because, at bottom, it represents a loss of faith; a loss of faith in God (or Illúvatar), thus a loss of faith in the idea that all of creation will ultimately redound to His purpose-- even the bad stuff, even the evil stuff. So, I think it's clear how Denethor's fall is similarly rooted in despair, and, in this case, it was catalyzed by his use of the Palantir-- and his unmitigated hubris in attempting to test his will against the likes of Sauron himself. Unlike his brother and father, Faramir ultimately overcomes the pull of despair-- for all of those reasons, mentioned in the video, which make him such a virtuous man-- but just barely. The temptation that he faces his purely the temptation to give in to despair, in the form of the Black Breath: the bitter poison of the Witch King, which, much like the Ring, exerts an influence on the victim commensurate with his (or her) own internal conflict and psychological wounds. This is why Merry is able to recover much quicker from the Nazgul wound than either Eowyn or Faramir: while he certainly had experienced his share of fear and dread and loss throughout his journey, he was fundamentally a carefree, lighthearted soul inclined to be, well, merry-- and he had his best mate Pippin watching over him. Despite his virtues, Faramir leaves for his final foray into Osgiliath a wounded and isolated man; hurt by his father's incredibly cruel, parting words (which were a product of Denethor's own despair), grieving the loss of his beloved older brother, and grappling, despite himself, with the feeling that he had somehow failed them both. Faramir was a man torn between his sense of duty to a father who, though noble and wise, was losing his grip on reality, and his duty to his own conscience; he was torn between a desire to have his love reciprocated by his father, and his desire to do what he ultimately knew to be right. I could go on and on about this internal conflict, and the dynamic btwn father and son, but it is skillfully displayed in the conversation btwn Denethor, Gandalf and Faramir in the Seige of Minas Tirith chapter. Because of all this, we find Faramir in a very precarious position in the Houses of Healing, when Aragorn finally comes into the city-- with the hands of a healer-- to bring a bit of hope back into Faramir's wounded heart. Then he found a kindred soul in Eowyn-- who was still struggling with her own demons at this point-- and the two complete the healing of each other's hearts; it is through their love for one another that they find a renewed faith which allowed them to face the end with courage and grace-- whether it be to their destruction or to their triumph over the Enemy. I'll stop myself here, but I will say that I have far less issues with Faramir's portrayal in the third PJ film, for reasons outlined-- but overall I think Jackson really failed to grasp this character on a foundational level. Which is a shame, bc he's my favorite character in Tolkien's entire legendarium.

[@the_tactician9858]

I can forgive PJ for misinterpreting (or at least changing for what he considers the benefit of the movie) Faramir and Denethor, but you put things into great words as for how I feel about the family of the Steward of Gondor in the movies. It is telling that most people, upon meeting Faramir in The Two Towers movie, call him worse than his brother, even though that's also because of how his men treat Gollum who at this point is a more established and therefore more beloved character. But in a sense, his desperation (for that's what despair leads to) is only brought forward in the story by making Faramir tempted by the ring. It is blatant character assassination, Faramir knew very well he could not rely on the ring and didn't even allow himself to consider such a thing, but if what you say is true, Faramir's emotions and experiences have not been changed, only the time in which he experiences them. In the books, Faramir is heavily wounded by his father's words as he leaves for Osgiliath one more time, but in the movie it's insinuated that this pain has been a part of him for years. In the book, Faramir comes to his lowest point when his father denounces letting the Ring go and being unable to save Osgiliath. In the movies, Faramir is already at his lowest point when we meet him in Osgiliath, he's just masking it a bit better. The problem is that this re-characterizes Faramir in a more negative, and worse, inaccurate light. We don't meet Faramir, and then see him have the worst day of his life; we see him while he's having the worst day of his life only to get an offer to join a pyramid scheme. This means that a man who already was going to be compared to his brother is now almost indistinguishable from his brother, and anyone trying to write characters knows that having characters be indistinguishable from each other is a horrible way to write characters. Worse yet, it makes us look at him with Denethor's eyes, judging his quality with regards to his brother. And therein lies the key of the problem. Denethor, as much as his character is much more antagonistic than in the books, is still characterized in line with his behaviour: him succumbing to despair to the point of madness is not diminished by him not being a skillful steward, in fact it's strengthened, which avoids the pitfall of confusion for having a bad person be a good ruler. Denethor being competent is not crucial for the plot because all his competency is undone by his desperation. But Faramir's change, even though it's seemingly much less of a step, jars with how the book presents him: a humble son of greater sires, who in his desperation shows his virtue by clinging to hope regardless, refusing to believe it's weaker than the despair it's facing. Tolkien, of course, wrote this in the 1940's, a time in which the idea of a once great but now dwindling realm is facing down an evil empire multitudes larger than theirs was seen as a reality, also known as the Second World War. That war was won in part because Great Britain refused to fall in despair and continued to fight, hoping that with the aid of powerful allies they could one day win the war. Tolkien's work have no allegorical meaning in them but they are built on what happened in Tolkien's life, which makes Faramir's decision to not take the ring, but only to play his meagre part in achieving victory, a strikingly familiar concept for his readers at the time. It is possible that Jackson felt this conflicted with the general theme of the Ring in the movie, it's also possible he never understood the meaning of this part when he read the books himself, but whatever the cause, he did have to sacrifice Faramir's character in order to right this perceived error of judgement. Whether or not it's worth it, I can't say for sure, since I don't know how a more faithful adaptation of Faramir for the movies would have worked. But I do like book Faramir better after all is said and done.

[@sonmi2246]

@the_tactician9858 Wow, thank you for the thoughtful and well-worded reply! As you can probably tell from my original comment, I can talk about Tolkien all day-- so I appreciate the engagement. I loved what you said about Faramir's virtue in rejecting the Ring outright-- in not even entertaining the thought of it-- and simply playing his "meagre part in achieving victory". I think that pretty much sums up why the change to make him tempted by the Ring fundamentally altered his character as he is portrayed in the book. I also agree that the movie doesn't do enough to distinguish his character from that of his brother. Part of me understands the screenwriters' wanting to heighten the parallels btwn Faramir and Boromir-- to create a certain symmetry btwn the one brother who fell to temptation in the first film (even if he redeemed himself in death) and the younger brother who, in the second film, redeems himself at the final moment, and makes the choice that his brother ultimately failed to. If the movies were just an original IP, and I didn't have the book for comparison, I probably would have no issue with this storytelling. However, I still think that the contrast btwn Faramir and Boromir in the book-- the contrast btwn their fundamental *natures* and not simply in the choices they make-- I still find that a more narratively powerful contrast; furthermore, it is through the contrasting natures of the two brothers that Tolkien relays some very important themes about virtue and what it means to be virtuous man-- we don't get this as much in the films when Boromir and Faramir are much more similar in their natures. You make a good point as well about how the underlying emotions behind Faramir's despair are still there in the film, if perhaps shifted in time. However, I would say that, even in the book, the tension btwn Faramir and Denethor-- which culminated in the latter's incredibly cruel words to his son at the very last moment he was to see him "alive" (or conscious, at least)-- it's heavily implied that this tension goes back far into Faramir's childhood. It is implied that Boromir was always the favored "golden child", as it were, and Faramir, though he adored his elder brother, struggled to be seen as equally worthy in his father's eyes. Tolkien makes a very percipient observation about familial relations, particularly that btwn fathers and sons, in setting up this dynamic: the observation that a parent will oftentimes resent the child who most resembles them in nature and temperament. And that is just the case with Denethor: he knows that, while Boromir is bold and courageous, a worthy warrior, he does not possess the certain innate nobility, nor the wisdom and intelligence, of his younger brother; in this, Faramir much more resembles his father than does his elder brother. However, Faramir also possesses humility and compassion; he has no desire for power or to lord over others, and while, like his father, he has a great insight into the minds of others, he judges them with compassion rather than scorn -- and these traits beget in him an even greater wisdom and nobility than that of his father. Essentially, he is the better man of both his father and brother. Denethor knows this on some level, and that is why he resents and even mistrusts him-- even if, deep down, he does love him very much. I suspect as well that Faramir might represent a painful reminder to Denethor of his wife whom he lost very young. Though it's never stated explicitly, I suspect that she too had a certain compassion and humility that is reflected in Faramir-- that his nature is the result of the best parts of each of his parents. The loss of his wife was really the beginning of Denethor's descent into bitterness and despair. But anyway: for all these reasons, Denethor knows that he cannot influence or control Faramir the way that he can control Boromir. This is why we see Denethor express almost a jealousy over his younger son's admiration and respect for the sagacity of Gandalf; Faramir defers to the Wizard's counsel in a way that he wouldn't to his father's (certainly not at this point in the story). It is for these reasons that Denethor insists on sending Boromir to Rivendell in Faramir's stead (and over the latter's objections)-- depriving Gondor of its valiant captain at a crucial time, and, unwittingly, condemning Boromir to his ultimate fate. He knew (or thought so) that he could count on Boromir to retrieve the Ring for him-- but he knew that Faramir was beholden to higher virtues than a desire to please his father or to the temporary security of Gondor. Long rant aside: I rather think PJ captured the essence of this familial dynamic, even if he failed to capture the essence of Faramir's character. I also agree with you in that I don't have as many qualms with Denethor's portrayal, nor with the fact that he was portrayed as rather an incompetent ruler. I will say, however, that I absolutely despise that scene wherein Gandalf bops Denethor on the noggin with his staff as the latter is losing his mind-- that scene borders on slapstick, and is completely misplaced in such a grave, high-stakes moment, imo. I think that particular scene was one of the silliest decisions in the entire trilogy-- a film trilogy that I adore nonetheless.

[@mistermograph]

Hmm, the real villain here may be editing. I remember not really caring for film Faramir very much until I saw the extended cut of the films years later. It's almost criminal that the flashback scene of Boromir, Faramir and Denethor in Osgiliath didn't make it to the theatrical cut. I remember seeing that scene and finally understanding "ahh Boromir really is the hero and hope of Gondor's future. Despite Denethor's pressure on Boromir to be such, Boromir meets and even exceeds the expectation. And Faramir deeply admires his brother as a person to look up to." For me, it made sense after that scene why Boromir tried to take the ring (pressure to be the hero of Gondor) and why fairhearted Faramir seemed almost hollow (denigrated by his father for years). It broke my heart when Faramir said, "Since you were robbed of Boromir, I will do what I can in his stead". He really only ever wanted his father to love him for being his son-what he percieved Denethor's love toward Boromir as. But in reality Denethor's flaws led him to view both of his sons as tools, Boromir was just a useful one. Denethor is the villain of this particular story as his misguided delusions become the source of both Boromir and Faramir's angst. That context made Faramir one of my favorite supporting characters in the films, as I appreciated how the story allowed him to carry Boromir's virtue that he admired so much by claiming virtue in his own way in letting Frodo and Sam go. Succeeding where his brother had failed. but none of that subtext can be figured out without that one scene. Really a shame PJ felt the need to cut it.

[@the_tactician9858]

@@mistermograph PJ does that a bit more often, yes. Usually he does do it to make the story more structured, and if you ask me it generally tends to do what it's supposed to do. I know people swear by the extended editions but I do think for a complete noob the theatrical version might be a better fit, it does streamline the story quite significantly. Of course once someone is familiar with the world you should 100% watch the extended edition instead, but for newcomers to the genre, that might just be too much of a good thing.

[@sonmi2246]

@mistermograph I totally agree about that scene in the extended edition-- it's a shame that it had to be cut, bc it does add so much more subtext to the dynamic btwn Faramir, Boromir and their father-- and I feel that way about so many scenes that didn't make it into the theatrical release (even though in most cases i also understand why the decision was made from a practical standpoint). For me, the extended editions are the definitive versions these films; I watch all 3 every year around the Holidays, after my annual read-through of the book.

[@Faircrow]

The way: Meekness, Humility, Temperance, Fortitude, Justice, Prudence. Faith, Hope and above all Charity.

[@janette2422]

indeed. God Bless!

[@Faircrow]

@@janette2422 amen, you too.

[@elizabethtaylor9242]

Thank you for this excellent video. IMO the Lord of the Rings trilogy are the best films ever made and I watch them almost constantly. But I am one of those who can and does rant on about what PJ did to Faramir’s character……and how he dragged Frodo and Sam off to Osgiliath. Admittedly the image of Frodo standing on the battlements, holding up the ring to a Nazgûl is very compelling, unforgettable even, but it’s stupid! The ring is supposed to be a secret from all but a few, especially the servants of Sauron. In Osgiliath it is discussed and argued over in front of an army, in the film, and waved under the nose of a Nazgûl. Unbelievable! More than that though, Tolkien’s Faramir is gentle and courteous, as well as strong and courageous. He is a chivalrous knight. He is very careful not to talk about “heirlooms” in front of his men. It was very disappointing to see Faramir distorted in the way he was in the film. Nevertheless these films are the best in the world ever. I had thought turning LOTR into a film would be impossible, but Peter Jackson and team did the impossible, so I try not to complain too much.

[@plasmabat718]

Those are all good things but in trying to actually do those things I can tell you it’s a trillion times easier to just list a bunch of good things to be than actually be them. I know you’re all dancing around saying His name for some confusing reason but let me tell you as a man that has the equivalent mind of an animal/is subhuman asking Christ for help is the only way to do any of this

[@janette2422]

@@plasmabat718 we are not dancing around anything. We are having a conversation and you have a problem with how we are having it. If you want to speak of Charity, be charitable and do as Our Lord asks and 'do not judge, lest ye also be judged'. Everyone knows the OP is quoting Our Lord, Sir. The one acting subhuman and uncharitable is not him. So please be kind when no one here is disrespecting Our Lord but glorifying His Message. Considering it was a loved comment from the channel holder! So God bless the channel holder too for being brave!

[@chriscooper654]

Cogent and convincing analysis. I would only add that Faramir also recognizes Sam as a morally kindred spirit, while other characters are dismissive of him.

[@music79075]

The people who dunk on Book Faramir probably dunk on Superman too and like you said, completely miss the point of each.

[@ohifonlyx33]

As someone who hesitates to change Tolkien lore, I actually don't mind this arc being given to Faramir (too much), because I do think at the heart, Faramir is still noble and a virtuous idealist stuck in a horrifying war. He does quickly come to understand the dark temptation the ring poses and rejects it on the spot. It just took him an extra step to realize just how strong the ring was. Its just a little more nuanced because he is human... the movie's writing is strong enough for me to get over it. I'm more miffed that we didn't get more Eowyn/Faramir. And really, his hair should be black.

[@dirgniflesuoh7950]

Totally agree: Both Boromir and Faramir should be blackhaired. And I cannot help but wish for less Arwen soulsearching, and more Eowyn and Faramir healing and romancing.

[@nishikaze]

Faramir and Eowyn were my favorite characters in the novels and the movie. Small rolls yes, but insanely strong and deep characters with steadfast moral fortitude. I adored them both even before finding out they ended up together in canon. Faramir was stronger and more resolute than is brother but was treated so poorly by his father. My heart broke for him but I loved him all the more for it.

[@HaydenStephens515]

15:45 - 16:15 This is why I call BS on the cynical trolls who call Superman boring, just because they think they’re being “edgy” and “cool” for doing so. Your thumbnail is correct. Virtue is NOT boring. Only those who are devoid of Virtue and are simply pure-evil would ever think that way.

[@TGPDrunknHick]

virtue isn't boring but, definitely can be written that way. edgelords like to have their characters steamroll everything for catharsis. for the truly virtuous this doesn't always work. you have to make sticking to your principals a conflict. make doing things like an edgelord easier in the short term with consquences in the long run while doing the reverse here. harder in the moment but, so much more rewarding in the end.

[@nont18411]

And those who also consider ASOIAF (Game of Thrones) to be better than LOTR because it’s edgy, has a lot of sexual assault, heroes died horribly while the asshole characters continuously thrive so they consider it to be more “realistic” than LOTR that taught about good vs evil.

[@joyfulyes]

​@@nont18411I've never read GRRM and your comment reinforces that decision. I've quit at least one other series (Kurtz's Deryni books) for the same reason. If I wanted "gritty (cynical) realism" I'd read true crime.

[@erinharkiewicz7239]

Superman isn’t boring because he’s virtuous - he’s often boring because he’s grossly overpowered.

[@j.l.w9563]

Virtue isn't boring in real life simply because there is more malevolence in real life than there is in the lord of the rings. There is a lot that a person has to do to constantly push against it. Especially 'the banality of evil'. Like, passive aggressive jealousy and such.

[@eowynsisterdaughter]

Faramir is one of those chracters where we're seeing them mostly after all of their tempering and struggle, and they're left with steel resolve. I believe this absolutely can make for compelling characters, but the key is to show what those characters now have to endure as they hold to their principles. As you, excellently, said, emphasizing Faramir's humility and how he didn't even want to look at the Ring lest he be tempted would've maintained the manipulative power of the Ring in the Jackson trilogy. What should've also been leaned into is the whole, "not if Minas Tirith were falling in ruin and I alone could save her." Unpacked, this means that Faramir believes that the destruction of Minas Tirith and DEATH of her inhabitants is ultimately better than whatever existence could be maintained through relying on Isildur's Bane. After that's stated, you narratively make him prove it. Faramir's secret base is right next hordes of Mordor's forces. Show that he's losing men, and show that Mordor is capturing and killing civilians before Faramir and his band can save them; show the cost of holding to his principles and a Faramir with an intact character can fit into the action of Jackson's trilogy. Anyway, lovely work expounding on my favorite character, and I agree it's a shame no one's made a show chronicling the very long life of Galadriel.

[@winstonstowers9121]

I think it's also important to remember that boromir and Faramir are juxtaposition of each other that is meant to challenge what we see as virtuos, faramir represents what we should see as a good man with values we should praise, boromir represents the idols we usually out up high for their boisterous and conquering qualities. Together they are meant to challenge our view of what is virtuos, especially in the context of WW1

[@MalachiSouth]

Wonderful response. As you pointed out Boromir feels like a traditional hero or leader. He's smart, strong, brave, and loyal. He epitomizes the hero and soldier that men were supposed be like back then, and still are put up on pedestals today. He also is similar to traditional heroes, such as Beowulf. Faramir, is thus a very unusual character for Tolkien as he stand in complete contrast to the traditional views of that time and of past literature. He challenges the concepts of heroism and virtue. What's beautiful, is the fact that Faramir still is strong, and brave, and loyal, and smart. But he's also wise, humble, and cautious.

[@mononoke813]

I hate how they did Faramir dirty and glorified Boromir. It was just another example of “only the eldest child can be perfect and do no wrong” even when they do the unspeakably wrong. And Jackson was wrong too. It wasn’t like Faramir was like Tom Bombadil and the ring had no effect, the ring had an effect, but Faramir didn’t let himself get lost in it because just like Sam, his heart lie elsewhere and with it, his duty. And THAT was enough.

[@VKiera]

My most disappointing feeling about Faramir is how much they had to cut out with him and Eowyn from the third movie, though I do understand it'd be near impossible to fit everything in. I don't mind movie Faramir, but I do like his book counterpart better.

[@master_samwise]

Pretty much how I feel.

[@barbarabaker1457]

Same. There was something so comforting about their romance, like they each found something they so utterly deserved at the end after all they had strived for.

[@justwonder1404]

Probably my favorite love story, I was pretty sad about that, even though I agree it would've been hard to fit in.

[@nishikaze]

Extended Cuts exist for this exact purpose. They added it back, just a bit and it's perfect.

[@barbarabaker1457]

@@nishikaze Now if only that could be explained to Villeneuve. Sorry to be random. Been listening to the Dune audiobook today.

[@itsorcacraft9037]

I can't think of an original comment fast enough. I love your videos

[@azidal3755]

Same. had to like the video before i heard him finisb the first word.

[@SpikeSpiegelSpacecowboy]

Plot twist: there are no original comments.

[@thomasoveracker1115]

People that don't like faramir, are the same people who think superman is boring because he's not jaded and dark

[@MajikSheff]

Thank you for this video! Jackson's portrayal of Faramir in The Two Towers has always bothered me. When he takes Sam and Frodo to Osgiliath, and Sam makes his speech about "by all rights, we shouldn't even be here," I nearly yelled at the theater screen, saying, "No, you shouldn't! This wasn't in the book!"

[@mellllle93]

And this is why Faramir is such a wonderful role model for modern masculinity - I think he was my first fictional crush ever. He values defending over attacking, he values learning and understanding others highly, he is a goddamn nerd plus is full of positive empathy. And I love so much what you said at 5:59 - he refuses to play the game, looks at the ring and is like "yeah I know that is out of my powers" - especially in the current world where so many people overestimate themselves. Thank you for the video!

[@lauraceballos9217]

I also loved the "nerd" thing!! He was my crush as well. 🤣

[@axelord4ever]

Bet the good looks helped too. Personally, I always put Faramir in the same box as Gamgee. People who have a set of values they aren't keen on showing off. They are the 'quiet' men of Middle-earth. No boisterous speech, no childish rebellion in fate. They might not understand the wider world and the people that live in it perfectly, but they know themselves.

[@dhfvrfhjcfbbrfb]

Faramir’s masculinity is so different from the boorish Andrew Tate/gangsta rap version of manliness. He’s never insecure about being the supporting character in someone else’s journey - when Aragorn claims the kingship, Faramir immediately supports him and asks for his marching orders. And when he falls in love with Eowyn, he’s totally focused on understanding her and healing her, without dwelling on his own sadness. And yet you NEVER think that Faramir is weak. You can always sense his iron will and serious purpose. Eowyn is more impulsive and hotheaded than him, and I like to imagine her teasing him and making him laugh.

[@mellllle93]

@@dhfvrfhjcfbbrfb Exactly! He is so comfortable in who he is, and is very relationship-oriented. And tbh, andre-tate-type men are kind of... boring. Like, you know what they are going to say or do. We had that for hundreds of years, it is kind of outdated :D

[@MDE_never_dies]

Most modern women are unworthy of a modern Faramir

[@TheGalacticNerd19]

Honey wake up Master Samwise just drop a new video

[@williamhamilton1154]

Love this video. You’re completely right. Virtue is only boring when it’s being written by boring writers. That’s the main reason we can’t get a decent Superman movie. That being said, I do like the movie version of Faramir. I liked watching him become the version of Faramir we see in the books. (Even though his ruthlessness towards Gollum went too far). Also, really appreciated the connection to Screwtape Letters. C.S. Lewis doesn’t get mentioned enough in most Tolkien videos. Thanks for the awesome content.

[@saddlerrye6725]

I was really, really hung up on movie Faramir for the longest time. But slowly I came to love his story and arc, especially his relationship with Boromir and Denethor. It's not my book Faramir, but another Faramir that I can appreciate separately.

[@adriancaso3811]

"Why do they care so much about a character who has no real meaningful impact on the plot" That had to have been a deliberate line to trigger the heck out of Tolkien fans lol

[@Whiskey_and_Steel]

I feel when Boromir says “Yes, there is weakness. There is frailty. But there is courage also, and honor to be found in Men.” That courage and honor, is about Faramir

[@MichaelWhite-te3qi]

Playing Holst's "Jupiter" at the very end goes hard af. Conveys such a powerful feeling of triumph.

[@s7udmuphin]

All the music in the background was just the cherry on top of this excellent video

[@LizardMan8675309]

4:22 there’s another factor to this, they also altered Faramir’s character because the book ending of 2 towers doesn’t make for a good film ending for Frodo’s journey. They shifted his resolution to aid Frodo to the end of the film to serve as the climax in Frodo’s journey to coincide with Helm’s deep. Logically it makes sense and shows that the crew didn’t make these changes lightly.

[@adamwilson2706]

I really wish Faramir and Eowyn had more screen time at the end of RotK. The way Tolkien describes their apprehension after the battle and them watching the downfall of Mordor is great.

[@janette2422]

FINALLY SOMEONE DEFENDS MY BOY!!!! ABSOLUTELY assassinated my boy in this. I AM SO....PISSED that they did this. Jackson reasoning of utterly wrecking this character has never sat well with me. They can't conceive of a man who has already been tempted by things and has climbed to the point where you see Faramir already. Faramir was a different sort of man; he was not tempted by power. He was a scholar-a student of a lower angel (Gandalf)- and as brave as any other soldier but far more virtuous than his brother in humility, and those virtues which follow that. I could NOT abide by Jackson's decision like 'breaking their own lore'. There WERE people who could resist the Ring. Like Bilbo did, for example, naturally. Jackson broke Tolkien's lore. Not everyone is tempted by the same thing. There are different temptations for everyone, even if there is a majority to whom that temptation appeals. Thank you for defending the character that Tolkien said was the most like himself.

[@miketacos9034]

16:06 Exactly; showing examples of people choosing true virtue is also humanizing - those kinds of people really exist!

[@ThomasGarrettthefirst]

It made me laugh when Gwyn's theme started playing as soon as you started talking about Oreos. No, I don't know why.

[@master_samwise]

I thought it was such a ridiculous juxtaposition that it had to be funny.

[@alexandriaborjas7680]

I need this blasted everywhere! Good men are and will always be admired and needed!❤

[@tatjanabizic3317]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Book Faramir is so noble and sublime, such beautiful soul and mind, and I passionately hate what movie did to him.

[@davidbe3560]

I love this. My parents were masters at avoidance. I avoided a lot of things in high school and thought it would carry me into my family situation now. I learned that avoidance is not the only weapon one must be able to wield. There is a time to recognize evil, fight it, or flee from it at all costs.

[@sagittarius1343]

Your commentaries on LOTR are so insightful and uplifting (and well-written). Our world needs so badly the promotion of virtues. You are doing your part. Thank you.

[@Maria-ok7oe]

I remember when reading the books i absolutely loved faramir. First of all because he helps frodo and sam along and he is definitely tempted in the books, but refuses and mocks all intrusive thoughts the ring puts into his mind. He shows what someone who steals their mind can do. Next to that i always loved his role during the aftermath. How he steps down to aragorn, because he knows the true king can do a way better job than he ever could. And the book describes that Aragorn really doesn't want the crown, but knows he has to accept it anyway. There are so few heroes who step down from the task they get handed to let others shine or want to refuse something that is rightfully theirs. In the books, Faramir is kind, compassionate and humble. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and knows when to step down and he is happy with being a second choice for the woman he marries.

[@tinwiel-wr1ku]

The "not like other men of their time" trio (Aragorn, Faramir and Denethor) have always been one of my favorite parts of the book, so I tend to be harsher on PJ's adaptation than most. Admittedly, his Aragorn & Faramir are good characters if we view the movie trilogy as a separate piece of art, but they are terrible adaptations of Tolkien's characters. PJ's decisions to give Aragorn a character arc spiralled into the avalanche of other changes made at the expanse of all Dúnedain characters who aren't Boromir. (Like removing the Captains of the Outlands to give Aragorn the honor of being Gondor's singular savior, or giving young Denethor's reconquest of East Osgiliath to Boromir)

[@CharlieAnderson-o7e]

I think people who hate on Book Faramir just feel insecure and want the character to also be more insecure.

[@xavierthomas5835]

While I agree, all insecurity comes from a place, while not valid, certainly understandable.

[@derek96720]

I think this applies to a lot of book characters that were a lot more noble and less flawed than their movie counterparts.

[@AdamPentz-ct2hn]

I love this! This is SO GOOD! However, I disagree that Faramir is not important to the story. While I am unable to go into detail about it at the moment, I think that Faramir is an essential part of the story, even if it is not obvious to some. I'll say this: some of his importance comes from the very fact that he is virtuous just as Aragorn is virtuous, which shows that Man as a whole is stronger than he seems. If Aragorn were the only one, much more weight would be placed on Aragorn's shoulders to be the "bringer of virtue" back to man. There needed to be at least one more man who was confronted with the power of the Ring to show that the line of Numenor had not yet failed.

[@sggames4787]

Fantastic breakdown of Faramir's character in the books compared to the movies. I saw the movies first and then read the books. I liked Faramir in the movies, but I have to admit that I find book Faramir to be a much more compelling character precisely for his humility.

[@MadMax-cg6gh]

I always had a crush on Faramir, he's all contradictions, so sweet and strong tho 🥰 He's a high value man amongst beasts, very precious and inspiring. He always reminded me of an angel : charismatic, sweet and tortured, but takes no BS. Kuddos from France you G, it was an original and interesting analysis 🇨🇵🤗 Sorry about my awful description, I still lack some vocabulary 😅

[@TheQboy200]

Playing multiple Halo trilogy tracks throughout this video is such a goated move. Great work as always.

[@Cypherwraith001]

You know it's a good analysis of virtue when you pull out the Screwtape Letters. Painting hell as a bureaucracy really highlights the monotony of Evil, and illustrates how varied paragons can be. "How monotonously alike all the great tyrants and conquerors have been: how gloriously different are the saints."

[@M3atbucket]

A lot of people cite Aragorn as the man to aspire to be; which there is a lot to be said about that. But Aragorn has power within his very blood. Faramir is literally just a man. He has always been my favorite due to, well, everything.

[@Grivehn]

As much as the Fellowship in and of it self with all its original members is epic, unbreakable and brings a tear to my eye beyond words, Faramir and Sam are my favorite characters from Lotr. Humble, honorable heroes indeed.

[@jsnotlout3312]

Lord of the rings has so many lessons in it, that I have about 25 videos going over its many arcs and stories in my writing advice archive. It really helps me figure out how to write better stories than I ever could've imagined

[@sariahd5083]

You put everything well. I have actually been saying for years that they weakened Faramir so significantly compared to Boromir on the subject of the ring alone! Boromir was in the company of the ring for months and Faramir was in the company for a single night it was so sad what they did.

[@RJLbwb]

2:48 When we saw the Two Towers the first time one of my friends quoted that to me during the Faramir temptation scene.

[@johnturner7790]

One thing I loved about him in the book was that he had already promised not to take the thing Frodo had because it would be wrong & then laughed at himself for passing the Ring's "test" by being a man of his word.

[@SuperBroGaming-se6br]

YES! A video on Faramir! Woo! Personally one of my favorite characters from the books, and that favoritism translates over to the film really well, can't wait to see what you've got to say on it Sam! P.S: I really cannot recommend looking into the depths of Xenoblade Chronicles and it's characters, particularly Moebius N, Praetor Amalthus, Malos, Shulk, and basically all the other characters as well, the series is so deep, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on them! (Plz let me know if these suggestions are disliked by not hearting my comment if you don't like it, but seriously I recommend, love the good stuff Sam, keep it up!)

[@superdani152003]

This is an incredible video!thank you for sharing with us ❤

[@laurenanderson61]

Faramir is one of my favorite characters and I hated his treatment in the movie. Totally with you on this one.

[@blondetapperware8289]

THANK YOU for this! Faramir is so criminally understand, and I love him 😭

[@sharleecheyenne]

I have never watched or read Lord of the Rings (I read the Hobbit once when I was young), but this video alone makes me want to. This is fabulous!! What a powerful, well-written summary of the value of virtue and how we do not always triumph by power of will, but instead by the power of humility and refusal to, as you said, "play the game" at all. Absolutely amazing video.

[@MyTubeofYouChannel]

Didn't even know I needed this. All characters are at different points in their own arcs and some have reached a kind of virtuous stability. It's crazy how obvious this is when the writing/reading community has made our knee-jerk reaction fhat every character needs an obvious vice or flaw to tangle in with the main plot line.

[@Helgatwb]

Faramir's triumph over the ring was a strategic retreat. IIRC, in the book, Denethor was angry at Faramir and sent him to Osgiliath because Faramir had retreated from a different location, to save as many of his people as he could.

[@kostasbiker9302]

Beautifully put, as someone who hasn't read the books, I always liked Faramir a lot and he resonated with me in the movies.

[@francescaseyer4709]

My goodness, this is a video I have yearned to see for the longest time. I have not read the books, but witnessing Peter Jackson’s Faramir was one of the greatest moments in my LOTR journey and adventure. Faramir is and has always been the one character that has tugged at my heart and soul, and huge thanks to David Wenham for his masterful portrayal, and of course to Jackson for selecting Wenham for the role. Thank you for this beautiful and in-depth analysis of Faramir 🙏 ❤

[@witec83]

Thank you SO MUCH for this video. I've been trying to put into words what as wrong with Jacksons interpretation of Faramir and I couldn't put it into words, but this is it! Thank you!

[@quest2782]

The most difficult thing ever is to be virtuous difficult things tend to be called boring by people that given up on it.

[@Quon_the_Destroyer]

Great great great great video. Real eye opener to the subject of humility (along with other subjects) and just a blast to watch through. I can’t not subscribe after watching this

[@slb797]

I remember a Stargate SG-1 episode: “….The only way to win is to deny it battle” This feels like Faramir’s character But I will say, that Jackson didn’t really make it clear how much time passed since Frodo had to leave the Shire (which I think in the books is 8ish months?) to journeys ends. Which was probably his most significant single failing So when Boromir gets corrupted, it can look like, to someone who hasn’t read the books, the time could have been from the Council of Elrond to just a day or two after Galadriel, might have only been 2 or 3 weeks. When in truth, the chronology is that the Council convenes on October the 25th, and the Breaking of the Fellowship takes place February 26th, so Boromir has had several months to be worked at by the Ring. Because Jackson doesn’t ever address this discrepancy, the corrupting influence of the Ring seems MUCH stronger than originally intended by Tolkien

[@amkaen]

Thank you for saying what I've been saying for years, but saying it better.

[@jeeranko3359]

Faramir is my favourite character in all of the media, ever. I love him with all my heart.

[@jlodomauthor]

This may be my favorite video yet! For all of us (literally everybody) who were so FRUSTRATED at Faramir in the movies and for all of us who love Lewis and the Screwtape letters.

[@Eilonwy95]

Perfect analysis of an amazing character! We need Faramir’s example of humility and nobility.

[@SpicyPony]

I heard in an Ascension video that to root out sin you must be patient with yourself but ruthless with your environment. Boromir was doing exactly that by not allowing himself even the slightest temptation. So cool!

[@alexkats30]

Both you and Jackson are correct. You are correct in the philosophical aspect, he's correct in the film adaptation aspect. I still see film reactors thinking of Frodo as weak, stupid, incompetent in his journey to corruption by the One Ring. Now imagine someone coming and not be at all influenced by it, or how much nuance he would have to be given as a character, for the same people who didn't get all the film hints about Frodo and the One Ring, to get exactly why he wasn't. I think they made the right choice. If they hadn't, many more would have disliked Frodo and his arc's end

[@Rytonic69]

I feel like I've been missing out on this dude's videos because I see the thumbnail and say "Yeah I agree" and move on. Sorry bro, but you ARE making really good points!

[@Eilonwy95]

lol! That’s great

[@jordinagel1184]

The thing that doesn’t quite make the Oreo comparison make sense is that you are already aware of the power Oreos have over you, of being unable to resist them, *because* you’ve already been exposed to them before. Faramir never once saw the Ring before in his life, never experienced its pull, and being as he was technically in a more tempting position than Boromir (he had failed to stop Mordor at Osgiliath before, had held the line on the west bank and conducted raids in Ithilien while his brother was away, and now discovered that said brother, basically the lynchpin of Gondor’s eastern defense, had perished), he would have tons of reasons to want the Ring, while not really knowing about its downsides. All the other characters we see refuse the Ring (Gandalf, Bombadil - though he’s obviously a special case -, Galadriel, Aragorn, Sam) did so with either firsthand knowledge of its power over others or because they knew exactly what kind of object they were dealing with. Also, you say it took Boromir a long time to become tainted by the Ring, but 1. He was already tempted from the get go, he just didn’t act on it yet, 2. When Faramir caught Frodo and Sam, it was them against a whole battalion of experienced soldiers, so they were a lot less protected than in the Fellowship where Boromir would’ve had to deal with the rest of the group by himself, and 3. When Faramir caught Frodo, the Ring was a lot closer to Mordor, meaning its effects on others would be much higher. Also also, I don’t think Faramir’s eventual tipping point in the movie was Sam’s speech, but rather seeing what the Ring was doing to Frodo in Osgiliath.

[@wallywallace2184]

So glad there are people out there who understand why I feel as though Faramir was done a little dirty in Jackson's adaptation. In fact, in all of his attempts to add tension to parts of the book, he did a character dirty. In having Elrond and Aragorn both be so hard on the future king, it felt less like demanding more of Aragorn for his own sake and more like they just hate him(self). They weren't done super dirty, just a little bit. Enough for me to notice and question why that choice was made outside of just. Tension and entertainment purposes. Merry, Pippin and Gimli were also done a little dirty, but that's more because of time constraints and being dubbed comic relief than it was intentional adding of tension making a character feel less true to their purpose in the story.

[@jasonpike3375]

Great analysis! This isn’t the perfect analogy and apologies if someone else wrote something similar, but the analogy that I think about Faramir is that he acts like a wise recovering alcoholic. He will refuse walk into a bar or hang out with his friends he uses to drink with, knowing he will be more prone temptation being in bars or with his drinking ‘friends’. Tolkien’s characters/books are true master pieces.

[@206Zelda]

I remember seeing Faramir interact with Frodo and Samwise and felt rather unhappy with the way they handled him apart from the books. Faramir was a humble man who already took into account of his brother's folly and did not seem all that tempted to take the ring. I get that the movie tried to twist it into a 'father appeal' gimmick, and in the end he 'surrendered' that urge, but I still think the film did him a disservice. He was a fantastic son, brother, and military leader. He did Gondor proud.

[@Vivijjjlo]

The more I age, the more I appreciate and admire characters like Faramir or Sam, their humility, loyalty and their strength of character. To recognise how powerless they are in the face of evil but to still go against it

[@kohlicoide2258]

He just search for a excuse to talk about his Oreo Addiction. "One Oreo to get eaten from all."

[@supernerd8067]

And One Oreo to rule all can lead to One Insulin Needle to bankrupt them all.😂

[@googleuser3737]

Oreo has some Luciferian symbols on the cookie part.

[@jonservo]

And into that sandwich cookie he poured sweetness, creaminess, and will to be eaten with whole milk…….a master cookie

[@vivianecristinavicentimach5789]

Faramir is the character that Tolkien himself identifies with, according to Tolkien's Letters. So this is the frustration of Tolkien fans, in addition to the fact that in the cinema version there is no chapter on the Houses of Healing.

[@CaveFreediving]

Faramir's arc lies in his relationship with his father, desperately trying to please him by pretending to be like Boromir and gaining glory in battle, but he eventually learns this is not the way nor the path to happiness. He finds that with Eowyn in the countryside.

[@andreaguillade7120]

I loved your video! I can understand the reasoning behind the changes to Faramir in the movies, and I can enjoy him (in the extended editions, where a lot of context is added), but I still wish PJ & co could have found a way to stay true to the essence of his character.

[@therealggnat9662]

Well said, Master

[@ted.3602]

I grew up watching the Movies and they had a major influence on me, I'm working every day on a fantasy war story. Your videos on both Tolkien's work and Avatar have been integral to it's development and inspiration by showing me the best examples of their themes. So I wanted to thank you for doing what you do but that's not enough thanks to you I feel obligated to watch Avatar and to actually read Lord of the rings. I hope you know you've made another fan of those art works (on top of 1000's more) and that their lessons are being carried forward. Thank you for all you've taught me, can't wait for more vids

[@Incredible_Mister_J]

What's your stories title?

[@ted.3602]

@@Incredible_Mister_J I'm really sorry to be that guy but I know writers who have had their stuff stolen in the craziest ways, I would love to tell you and recommend other channels I've learned from too no matter what, but can I ask why first? (and if you worry no I'm not offended just cautious)

[@kameronsmith147]

Thanks for the great videos and lessons.

[@joannemoore3976]

Also I would have loved to see the scene in the Window on the West done properly- you took the chance, Captain my Lord, and showed your quality.. the very finest.

[@joannemoore3976]

*highest

[@Cartafilo_XXI]

You really did it. Absolute madman.

[@elizabethtaylor9242]

Thank you for this excellent video. IMO the Lord of the Rings trilogy are the best films ever made and I watch them almost constantly. But I am one of those who can and does rant on about what PJ did to Faramir’s character……and how he dragged Frodo and Sam off to Osgiliath. Admittedly the image of Frodo standing on the battlements, holding up the ring to a Nazgûl is very compelling, unforgettable even, but it’s stupid! The ring is supposed to be a secret from all but a few, especially the servants of Sauron. In Osgiliath it is discussed and argued over in front of an army, in the film, and waved under the nose of a Nazgûl. Unbelievable! More than that though, Tolkien’s Faramir is gentle and courteous, as well as strong and courageous. He is a chivalrous knight. He is very careful not to talk about “heirlooms” in front of his men. It was very disappointing to see Faramir distorted in the way he was in the film. Nevertheless these films are the best in the world ever. I had thought turning LOTR into a film would be impossible, but Peter Jackson and team did the impossible, so I try not to complain too much.

[@Gearedfilm57]

Faramir has always been a favorite of mine! Thank you for this excellent breakdown of his character

[@scroletyper8286]

Pride is the greatest of sons. Then is humility not the greatest of virtues?

[@MelonLord44]

Great video, as always! Your channel is a haven of reason on KZbin

[@wallywallace2184]

I also feel as though Sam's "highest quality" line is a bit out of place in the movie. In the books, it's an act of compassion to a man who doesn't think that highly of himself. He takes Faramir's self depreciating joke and turns it around with all the sincerity he can muster. Like if you called yourself ugly as a joke and someone looked you dead in the eye and with all the sincerity of sunlight on a clear day and says "you are beautiful". And he says this to Faramir because he sees this young man riddled with grief and a blindness to his own strength and tells him he is worth so much more than he gives himself credit for. He met insincere negativity with sincere positivity. In the movie, he met sincere negativity with sincere positivity and it just doesn't have the same impact, you know?

[@GrimDane]

Props to you using Halo OST as the background music.

[@JrLv38944]

Wow I really needed this video !