Favourite Nepobabies & Recognition For Women's Creative Values | Ep. 11

[@boreilly82]

This has quickly become one of my favourite podcasts

[@snakeinthegarden1146]

I only found this podcast via algorithm yesterday and my god do I love it. I've recommended it to everyone and am binging it ep by ep. Hello from Ireland!

[@aminaz1778]

I love Richard Osman

[@charliegeddie]

Please don't stop cause of low views, it will come LOVE THIS SHOW, just watched everything… need you too on the regular

[@fightoffyourdemons0]

Let's not forget our favourite nepobaby of them all, Marina Hyde - daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet! Way to go, Marina!

[@edmann1820]

Yeah it's strange the way tried to play down nepotism in Britain. When in reality we're the masters of it.

[@RustyBigguns]

Was half-way through writing almost exactly the same comment before seeing your own. What a struggle Marina must have faced breaking into journalism!

[@lesleyallerby1295]

@@RustyBigguns Isn't she a cousin to Julian Fellows through her paternal grandmother? Hardly a big jump to considering journalism as a career.

[@sararichardson737]

Nobody’s perfect

[@johnmightymole2284]

She is talented. No doubt benefitted from accident of birth but also with merit.

[@jackdoyle7453]

Brooklyn would be stacking shelves if not for his parents

[@joshuataylor3550]

He wouldn't exist if not for his parents

[@pretzelhunt]

they dont let infants stack shelves. crushed to death by the 42 oz artichoke heart flat crates. so if you mean, Brooklyn would be dead without parents, yup: youre absolutly correct. Kids need guidance.

[@painbow6528]

Even Richard looks slightly embarrassed as he watches the daughter of baron mock nepo-babies.

[@Periwinkleblue942]

This is going to be one of the biggest podcasts in a few years time.

[@MsClaudz]

Can’t believe I only just caught on to it! The tipping point must surely come. They should go on Adam Buxton or something else to do a little promo. Marina is just such good craic!! And the combo is great. Love a bit of intellectual celebrity gossip tbh.

[@DrCalamityJan]

Wonderful little show. Thanks for the insight into some really fascinating industries.

[@tomcullen5294]

So agree with your segment on human guides... Welcome to the world of Podcasts - it's why they are so popular! shame that they are all on the platforms you say are hoovering up the ad revenue. Love you guys. So great to hear intelligent people giving incites into something that excites them.

[@stephenbarrette610]

I really miss Q magazine - I bought it every month from the fourth issue. Genesis and Elton were on the cover if I recall correctly. I bought NME, Melody Maker and Sounds every week. Those were the days …. And the knowledge of Marina and Richard is astounding.

[@0ri0n_Atlas]

That said about music journalism. As a photographer who works in the space, it's been extremely tough to make a sustainable living. There's only really the hobbyist publications or the massive ones. But the nme have relaunched the physical copies, Q is being relaunched (though I'm reliably informed that none of the original team are involved), rolling stone launched a UK edition that's been in hot water regarding not paying freelancers and I didn't know about pitchfork. Whenever musicians I met got their first pitchfork review, it was a sign of them starting to get traction in the US and Canada. A terrible loss for the industry.

[@caitis1091]

I've never heard of pitchfork magazine, but I do watch mic the snare and the needledrop's videos, as well as getting music reccomendations from various subreddits. This is where I discover new artists most of the time, spotify/youtube reccomendations tend to be quite bland in my experience. We're not losing the human side of music tastemaking, it's just moved house. I'm 26 years old btw.

[@TonyP_Yes-its-Me]

Things women like? My late mother, and my 67 year old sister both loved an action film, especially war films, and westerns.

[@gilljacklin8804]

When Richard asks 'what else is Brooklyn Beckham supposed to do?' given that he has famous parents.... how about make a worthwhile contribution to society instead of taking opportunities from hard working ordinary people. Do you know what Bruce Springsteen's son became a firefighter?!

[@artiezonk]

At the very least, he could get an education in photography or cooking before being given such extravagant opportunities.

[@callum9999]

But..... why? He wants to do this, people want to fund him doing this, people want to consume the products he produces. It seems somewhat vicious to begrudge someone completely innocently living their life because you've dictated that they haven't "contributed enough" to society (whatever that actually means). I fully support the criticism of hereditary titles etc., but the "industry" that Beckham operates within isn't finite. Him being there doesn't prevent anyone else from being there. Arguably there could be someone else taking advantage of specific contracts he has, but given the industry is driven by revenue and his name alone brings in significant revenue, I'm not sure the argument that there is someone more "worthy" of being there is particularly valid. I think you'd actually need to be criticising the public for consuming content you don't approve of, but that in itself is very snobby. (I've never seen a single thing he's done as I doubt I'd have any interest at all in it - that's very different to branding it as "worthless" and, while you've obviously not called for censorship, suggesting that it shouldn't exist)

[@johnwelch5132]

His daughter is an Olympic class horse competitor. OK, he funded much of it, but one of Beckhams sons has gone into tennis. Brooklyn much of nothing and we don’t hear of the third one.

[@davidfriend4328]

@@callum9999 If he hadn't taken the publishing contract, the marketing money would have gone to another author. This is actually a very frequent criticism of these type of celebrities.

[@TommyDaniels-zt8zy]

I get the feeling that Richard doesn't want to criticise any British nepo babies in case he happens to be working with them or their parents in the future. Also, no mention of Roman Kemp, who seems to be on everything at the moment.

[@bobchr0]

Great podcasts.

[@David-j9h9g]

love their passion!!!!

[@owenmcgheeandbdawg]

I love this. ❤

[@mikesanborn4541]

I'm probably being naive but there is a part of me that believes perhaps people will grow wary of algorithmic derived media and maybe we'll see a renaissance of indie produced music, literature and art. Not that I think the internet should or ever will go away but that we will leave this sort of honeymoon period of obsession with it and seek more direct human experiences through art.

[@michaelrobson3460]

Ai versus Romanticism?

[@Kders]

As with supermarkets vs local grub, AI will inevitably be produced much cheaper and much faster. We are already being groomed to hoover up non stop content.

[@michaelrobson3460]

@@Kders yet, I go to local restaurants and I listen to radio 4 Im 56 and I was gob smacked by the fact that the teenage bar maid in my local "cool" bar was wearing an elo t shirt. I asked her about it and she said it was her "grandads favourite band and she had fond memories of singing along in his car to" their songs. In my mind Jeff Lynn is and was an analogue version of ai, in that he desperately wanted to be a Beatle. But In hers it's a living memory rather than a nudge from Spotify. Imagine, if we were really posh and our memories involved quartets on the lawn...

[@redmed10]

Strangers things have happened though i can't think of any at the moment.

[@markmiller6402]

I can honestly say, I’ve never bought music because of a critic’s recommendation, if you need to be told what’s good or bad, there’s really not a lot of hope.

[@AlanHamilton-j5i]

Brooklyn should have been trained-up in accountancy and given a hedge fund to manage. He must have had the best education the UK could offer, and a hedge fund is not rocket...

[@digbyfox]

Marina, Richard, you're bemoaning magazines going down the plughole on the very mediium that's replacing them. I used to be a mag journo and editor (sailing) but I get my fix of reviews, opinions and insight from this platform - KZbin. I did switch to video productoin 20 years ago, but still... still love a good rant in print, ie your Guardian column...

[@teeambird2079]

KZbin is overwhelmingly human though.

[@mitchio86]

Surprisingly they don't seem to know about the movie business. The 2023 global box office has performed very poorly. Much of the content was female focused, a good example being the marvels which flopped. They mention the colour of purple as a hit, it's budget was $100 million, i's box office was $65 million. It flopped. There isn't a mass conspiracy, women led movies struggle to engage with audiences. They also mention Barbie, the main lead of barbie was.... Ken. Ken had the character arc, the musical number, the funniest jokes

[@andrewdicker7272]

Yep indeed, there has been a notable move, especially from Disney to try to 'broaden' traditionally male IPs, such as Star Wars and Marvel into being more female centric, and it's led to increasing failure from the box office and diminishing returns.

[@agharries]

What about Emilia Fox (father Edward Fox) and Laurence Fox (father James Fox) as Nepobabies

[@michaelrobson3460]

Richard and David Attenborough. The Richardson dynasty. The Dimbleby Brothers. The Sawallha's Andi and Marquita Oliver The Roux brothers and sons But, the chuckle brothers kids? So, Okay let's go up north, then Jimmy and Lisa tarbuck and the Nolan sisters It's not who you are, it's who knows you 😂

[@davidfriend4328]

​@@michaelrobson3460 The Chuckle Brothers and The Nolan Sisters were family acts.

[@michaelrobson3460]

Theres a thing about the 4 quarter model. It works , kind of, for the west. But, are we not expecting a change in boundaries now For a 100 years america largely made movies and music the world tried to watch and listen to. Disney made a movie every 4 years Bond did too There were cottage industries in all the European countries that might break out, like Ealing Studios or The Beatles, Cinniecitta , Abba. So, now we have Bollywood earning uk box office hits, tv, movies and music from Korea. Africa is topping our pop charts. African movies are becoming more critically acclaimed. China cant be far behind. I love a judi dench with a bill Nighy on an afternoon at the movies, but, surely we have so much more to come from global cinema, music and the arts, than the beautiful good liar with Helen Mirren and Ian McKellen ?

[@David-j9h9g]

used to look forward to buying NME every week..plus NME vs Sounds war!!!!!

[@chrisknight2631]

Only discovered this podcast yesterday because I saw the name, “The Rest is…” and I wondered if it was anything to do with “The Rest is Football” (which apparently it is), and as this is finishing it will be the 9th one I’ve watched in less than 24hrs (I’ve slept in that time, too!).

[@MsClaudz]

Haha I’m in this place now as I discovered the pod a few days ago! Loving it and can’t believe I didn’t watch it sooner. Marina is a legend!

[@SiAndrews]

When Marina around the 12 minute mark discusses the box office and the female / male directors, she mentions an article from a site called 'Park'. Anyone know what the actual site she is referring to or the article. I can not seem to find it anywhere.

[@danielforster6507]

It’s called Puck

[@danielforster6507]

It’s called Puck

[@SiAndrews]

@@danielforster6507 Thanks, shame its a paid for site so unable to read the article.

[@David-j9h9g]

love the show..not sure about the set..Rich looks cramped...

[@michaelrobson3460]

Yet, he's sporting the best cricket jumper of the year. Should our podcasters be forced into sound proofed basements in Essex and Wardour Street, or should they be able to be free range in caffs and restaurants, where at least they could get decent coffee, dim sum, an English breakfast sandwich, some falafel or samosa? Would their product be better, if they weren't stuffed into content crates? I think we should be told

[@readventurekids]

Second mention of Our Thora. Maybe the title of the pod could be changed to 'Hird Mentality?'

[@shanemurphy8682]

Game of thrones two are surely the largest nepobaby!!

[@Mrmayhembsc]

NME came back in 2023m though I agree with a lot what you said.

[@TheOldMan-75]

Are we just ignoring all the female-centric movies that tanked horribly in 2023?

[@andrewmontague9682]

If there’s a gap in publishing in both the business and authorship elements, when can we expect to see programs to promote men into these positions? It’s about equality after all, right? 🤔

[@silvercfox7366]

Barbie was a good film but stand out was actor Ryan Gosling and the song written by Calvin Harris I'm Just Ken

[@lindagustafsson1337]

It was written by Mark Ronson

[@chrisredditch]

Music critics will always pander for praise from their audience. EG The review of a song in Smash Hits will differ from a review in Melody Maker.

[@lakrids-pibe]

I heard the podcast and wondered what a english breakfast sandwich looks like.

[@maxine2798]

A can of super strong lager and a fat rail in a butty

[@michaelrobson3460]

It looks amazing. But, I've had better. It's obviously going to sell out,on pre order by the company ,so, no one will ever know whether it arrived or tasted ok.

[@harght]

Remember when the journalists said learn to code ...

[@OceanSpaceman]

Tumble outta bed and I stumble to the kitchen Pour myself a cup of ambition And yawn and stretch and try to come to life Jump in the shower and the blood starts pumpin' Out on the street, the traffic starts jumpin' The folks like me on the job from 9 to 5

[@pindrop9536]

There were a load of female and male orientated movies and shows that failed last year. Hollywood just needs to make a better product (and stop attacking their potential customers),

[@AlanHamilton-j5i]

Marina, are you admitting luddism is moving up through the classes?

[@martindavis6472]

We serve our robot masters passively through creativity. Music is made by people because they feel a drive to create. Recording this music is how we pass it on to others. It becomes a datum for use. A packet for tracing and analysis. There is so much of it now that a meta-analysis can be performed on a case by case basis to feed an algorithm to feed a public that wants music. The Music Genome Project was built by people to feed Pandora and now it's a robot too. We make and create because we want to and need to in many cases. The first creation of the Boy Band template fell close on the heels of the California sound of the Eagles. Guidance by other people who studied the music business has been there long before the robots stepped in. Now that so much work has been done by the humans- new guidance Canberra gleaned from a robot instinct in the form of tangible data. The music of big names gets flatter and more people buy the stuff. The renegades who oppose the Taylor Swifts make their rage known on yet another album. The robot eats that one too- then feeds ot to someone who "knows real music" on Spotify. Welcome to the world fleshy creative. Feed me...

[@inkledoodle6503]

Isn’t she a nepo-baby? How has the ‘ironist’ missed this? Disappointed that Richard didn’t call this out.

[@andrewdicker7272]

I do notice that Marina has ignored The Marvels in that list...of course a massive flop directed by a woman.

[@andrewmac3117]

"One of the greatest footballers of all time"? To quote Alan Partridge - I don't think so!

[@goneonholidaybymistake84]

There is a bit of a double-standard here, as Marina Hyde ("Marina Dudley-Williams") - whilst not a nepobaby as far as I know - _has_ benefited from her monumental privilege and good standing of her parents. Most journalists and politicians are privately educated and from wealth, and Marina is no different. The rest of us barely stand a chance. It's a closed shop. Don't get me wrong, Marina is very talented and I like the show, but it's a little pot-kettle-black really. To paraphrase Richard's question about Brooklyn Beckham: "Would she be where she is without her parents [& privalege]" - no, like most of us, probably not. Talent is not anywhere near as important as being born to the _right_ parents. Sad truth of our age.

[@olivialangeveldt]

i know this is trivial but it's bothering me that the table is too low and they have to hunch like that

[@trevorwilliams6404]

So a woman in charge got rid of pitchfork.

[@Hexon66]

So, what are we saying here? Working on getting female directors as much opportunity to make crappy studio movies as men? I get it, it's economics, fair play and all. But I saw Barbie, fine movie, I've got no complaints. But as a template for a money-making venture, down the road it's obviously going to become as stale as all the male driven franchises and series, Fast and the Furious or the Marvel stuff. Shouldn't the goal be to advocate for initiatives in getting women more access in independent films, you know making films *_actually worth watching_* ? Gotta be better than just joining the old boys club.

[@michaelrobson3460]

Nah, Art house directors releasing sci fi, is the next 18 months of releases

[@andybrice2711]

Disney seems to have a weird and cynical strategy where they say _"Look! We're supporting a young female director!"_ But then they give her a $300m action movie which is way outside her wheelhouse. Delegate most of the movie to the stunts and VFX department. And tell her exactly what to do on the rest of it. Why not give young directors real creative control on some mid-budget movies instead?

[@andrewmontague9682]

That was a very tactical step around The Marvels (Nia Da Costa), The Eternals (Chloé Zhao), Wonder Woman 1984 (Patty Jenkins), and Charlie’s Angels (Elizabeth Banks) when talking about big flops. The problem isn’t women directing films it’s them being pushed into films they don’t have the skills for. Zhao and Da Costa are undeniably talented but neither of them had ever done any kind of effects heavy action film before being given £200m to £300m+ budgets. Neither of them cared about the film they were making and it showed. Where are the Rom-Coms? Family dramas? Teen angst dramas? Women don’t just need to be given a job they need to direct the film the WANT to make, that’s how good art happens.

[@Hexon66]

Another thing about the music critic's quote about "You're going to miss the music press. Why? Because it did the one thing you failed to value. Through its lens it made your acts exciting and larger than life, even when they weren't." See, that's *_EXACTLY_* why music fans hate critics. It's a point against, not in favor! He's actually admitting they've saddled the public with , well beyond their sell-by dates.

[@AkiVainio]

Even though Pitchfork was not founded by a woman, the last editor-in-chief was.

[@sasaki_on_aoba]

New set, new studio?

[@wonderwoman5528]

Father was a baronet, attended a private school.. but scoffs at nepotism 🥱

[@coraheal6745]

😂

[@matiia]

Yeah I was thinking this, probably good to show self awareness as the host as well.

[@pretzelhunt]

his brother's a bloody rock god!! share some of that nepo, plz thx!! lmao

[@rortrp]

In addition to the book discussion, there is a writer called Blake Pierce who publishes tons of books a month. Serial thriller stuff. I’m dying to know which group of writers are behind this nome de guerre or… is it AI? And can Richard please tell me why, in crime fiction, 99% of all victims are women? Like Meryl Streep during a Graham Norton show once said… I feel the universe is trying to tell me something.. (i.e. we are disposable).

[@redmed10]

Blake pierce seems to be very prolific. Too prolific for one person if you ask me. But then again I'm not a great reader particularly of crime novels so doesnt really affect me but your comment struck me.

[@davidfriend4328]

Of course it's Brooklyn Beckham's fault that he released a crap photo book. He could have done a really good photo book. Or realise that he didn't have enough experience to do one at all. Just because it's always been this way doesn't make it right.

[@eimearkavanagh3608]

Still waiting for the dishes that he "created"

[@MegaWelshpanda]

isnt claudia winkleman a nepo baby?

[@andrewmontague9682]

I do miss Q magazine. 🙁

[@michaelrobson3460]

Pitchfork was great, really supported real talent, was massively erudite and knowledgeable but... But, you needed the rights , the links the videos and bbc6 was quicker ,more immediate. John Peel played the records written about in nme, sounds, melody maker, so you got pictures , interviews, lyrics, opinion that then generated the records played on John Peel. Peel always fed in the past to his shows and this is how media will blow up music in future, either that or pop will eat itself and punt out scores for lord of the rings movies.

[@S-rn6xn]

Why the waffle? A lot do things are made just for women, whereas things ‘made for men’ are not targeted just for men, more men just watch them. Most films ever are made for women predominantly

[@MattFrancis1]

Barney Walsh…

[@charlesw852]

It would take far too long to outline the level of cognitive dissonance here regarding the female/male thing. What I can say from the experience of working for a couple of VC for nearly 20 years is that the vast majority of prospective founders are men and there are many many studies on this, detailing how men are more willing to take risks and forego the comfort of a consistent salary, etc. When a female founder came across our desks the industry would find any excuse to throw money at them. It is far easier to get a female led startup funded, as a result there is a far worse return on investment.

[@PaulMcCaffreyfmac]

My default position is to mistrust/dislike the boy Beckham, largely because he reminds me of the monstrous ego Hiddleston.

[@HsgssBshshs]

Two posh people looking down their noses and laughing at people.

[@daveygee434]

Rich NEPO baby gets to do everything. Wow. Breaking news 💤⛔️

[@australiainfelix7307]

Peak nepobaby is Malia Obama, who made her directorial debut at Sundance under the name "Malia Ann".

[@elwyndude]

21:56 what are talking about - have you never heard of Tilly Ramsay? Or Nigella Lawson? Or Stella McCartney? This idea that these nepo kids are only men is nonsense.

[@markreadsbo]

I can not comment about Tilly as I have not seen her, but Nigella and Stella may have got through the door but I think they have been successful I their field. Brooklyn on the other hand people think would not have done what he has done without his name.

[@elwyndude]

@@markreadsbo So then why would Harper Beckham be anymore "worthy" than Brooklyn?

[@markreadsbo]

@@elwyndude it's not being worthy it is having the skills for the job, if Brooklyn was cooking the food then that would be different, as for harper I never mentioned her.

[@elwyndude]

@@markreadsbo They did and thats the point. For some reason they think Harper would be more worthy than Brooklyn.

[@MrOtistetrax]

Those plates of food look fucking dreadful.

[@redmed10]

Perhaps if people didnt call them nepo babies other people would know what you are talking about. I know nepo baby sounds more cooler rather than just talking about nepotism. But if you want to communicate an idea rather than looking cool perhaps just use the words in common use.

[@johnwelch5132]

To be honest, young Brooklyn has no talent for anything he does. I’m sure family pal Mr Ramsay ‘advised’ on his overpriced snacks. He just has nothing to offer. His father can’t act, nor should the boy.

[@user-tg6vq1kn6v]

M SHE U

[@Fludded]

13:45 Mamma Mia grossed more than Iron Man? Opening Weekend 2008: Mamma Mia : $27,751,240 Iron Man $102,118,668 International Box Office: Mamma Mia : $441,725,109 Iron Man $266,567,421 Mamma Mia has done better around the world in the long term... but at launch it was trounced by Iron Man.

[@davyaerialvideography9595]

He isn’t a qualified chef, and isn’t a particularly good photographer. Much better out there but they don’t get a book deal etc because they don’t have a famous Mum and Dad. Professionals must have it when they work so hard to make a living and get their work published when someone who’s never done anything just turns up and says I want to take pictures or cook and gets all these deals. It’s not good.

[@passtouchgoal]

Wait a minute, Disney have both The Marvel and Star Wars franchises with Women at the helm and have for a few years, both franchises are losing money because of segregating and alienating the male audience, by retconing and demeaning male characters. You have to balance it.

[@ajmcdonagh7730]

Mean girls lost money

[@MrBabaBlackship]

Quite irritating white-washing from Richard the celebrity author there. It is virtually impossible to be offered a book deal from anyone unless you tick the social eligibility boxes. People in the industry are actively searching for people from minority backgrounds, creating a hostile environment of positive discrimination... unless say, you have a successful career as a media personality, at which point you get thrown a publishing deal whether you can write or not.

[@inkledoodle6503]

This seems so ill informed and unbalanced. They seem so out of touch with the general criticisms/ views of analysts as to why (Disney movies, for example) are flopping. They also seem to be purposely ignoring various key aspects of the examples they cite: e.g. Kathleen Kennedy’s involvement and the DEI approach to the Indiana Jones flop they keep referencing?

[@Yellowblam]

Wasn’t Richard supposed to be a food addict? This is in bad taste.

[@virtualal]

This podcast continues to act as a great demonstrator of everything that is wrong with the media industry. Nepotism is considered (rightly) a corrosive way of preventing any new talent entering an industry and preventing any form of social mobility. Its interesting how the left leaning media industry will happily call out all social ills but think that Nepotism should be celebrated. Law firms, big industry and accountancy practises, IT all have very strong procedures against this - but media TV, film and publishing actively celebrate it as do these 2 idiots

[@captainanopheles4307]

Bit sixth form politics the middle bit. If you think it's hard in publishing being a woman then try being working class.

[@siouzsie]

You might be happy with the original nepo babies - the Royal Family - but not everyone is happy with them. For instance, the pensioners who struggle to heat their homes whilst this bunch of grifters get a social security benefit increase.