ULTIMATE Submarine META PRO Guide - HOI4 Meta Navy Guide

[@FeedbackIRL]

sUb oNLy

[@jyotsnasrivastava6373]

Why wait till 1944 to sink entire British fleet when u can do that by 1941 by using a bunch of light cruisers. Actually, subs are not that good at sinking fleets unless enemy fleet is out of fuel. Also, submarines are only good at convoy raiding in regions where enemy planes are not naval bombing or else, get ready to lose 20 subs to like 200 bombers. Also, let me tell u AI does put planes in sea zone if ships are there and it does it quickly. In short, subs are not meta for any gamemode, SP or MP. Light cruisers are. Content creators just spam subs are meta and stuff but actually they are not.

[@anderarmould]

What a microwaved opinion. Do sub spam in the English channel, do a naval invasion, then what happens when the English convoy raid to hel all your supply convoys leading to 0% supply, curb stomping you out of Dover? You need dope destroyers, a couple battleships, some light cruisers, CMON MAN.

[@CasparMinning]

The snorkel was a Dutch invention, and the Germans got the tech pretty early in the war, because in May 1940 they took a lot of Dutch subs intact whilst they were still in the harbor.

[@beyondEV]

@@anderarmould subs + air superiority the British fleet stays away / is to busy to intercept. or simply use paratroopers + air supply.

[@beyondEV]

@@jyotsnasrivastava6373 depends. subs are much cheaper if you lack docks. and by using very small stacks for a long time you can get the admiral to very high level. just from 2 years of getting from 0 to 10*2 subs i got a admiral from 0 to 5.

[@cronochaos38]

A small tip for people who don't know. Submarines attacks differently on what their engagement rule is. They start attacking capital ships (CA,BC,BB,CV) on medium risk and screen ships(DD,CL) on high risk. So if you want your submarines to start attacking the fleet sent to sink them change their engagement rules

[@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329]

Dang, that's good to know

[@alexwynters600]

Can subs attack enemy subs? I don't think I've ever seen that engagement happen before.

[@cronochaos38]

@@alexwynters600 No by they don't have depth charges for that, but they can spot them for others to attack

[@darrenclarke4671]

Thanks for the tip!

[@s1lence_tiramisu2005]

I once play Mexico, spam sub, go to war with japan, set my 9 sub to always engage, sunk 1 cv, 17 dd, 2 cl, 15 fighter, 9 nav bomber and 3 convoy at cost of 5 sub in an engagement with 4 cv, 1 bb, 2 ca, 6 cl and 46 dd.

[@NoName-yo7ux]

tbh i feel like its very important that your subs have greater than 50 torpedo attack. a convoy has 50 health so a sub doesnt have to chase the convoy as the would sink in 1 shot. so convoy raiding is faster and far more effective edit: i just put 2 28 torpedo attack tubes and then the trade interdiction gives a 10% ATTACK giving a sweet 61.6 perfect to 1 strike a convoy. your ships need to chase and reload torpedoes and hit a convoy 4 times before killing a convoy so convoy could get away and call enemy strike force ships

[@cc0767]

IIRC troops convoys have 60 HP so yeah you should aim for 60 attack

[@hedgeearthridge6807]

Recon Planes ive discovered are AMAZING at finding enemy fleets. You just put 1 over an area, say the Bay of Biscay, and all the fleets there are spotted like 75% of the time, so your navy can intercept and attack. (idk if bombers benefit from spotting or not, but I still put 1or 2 Recon planes with my naval bombers)

[@trinalgalaxy5943]

early on recon planes allow you to lock down entire sea zones. I usually switch to radar once the tech is high enough so I dont spend too much production on recon planes over other planes.

[@aspielm759]

Yeah same experience here

[@mainman879]

Making a fleet from a single light cruiser with nothing but recon planes and a spotting admiral is great. Make sure to have a separate light cruiser and fleet for each individual zone for maximum spotting. Your attack fleets under other admirals can use this spotting to launch attacks if you have them on missions in the same area. Also make sure to set the scout light cruisers to never engage.

[@mateoprota7406]

@@mainman879 those ships are always killed, not worth it

[@mainman879]

@@mateoprota7406 I've never had issues with them getting killed. Maybe you're using bad designs or admirals idk.

[@joshuaspeer2503]

One of my favorite 'feedback explains the meta' videos. I liked how it wasn't all just theory but had you playing and showing a real example in the background

[@FeedbackIRL]

100% explainer videos are ResidentSleeper

[@tredbobek]

Land battle: 500 pages explaining how combat works, what divisions to use, what support companies to use, how to design tanks, what to produce etc... Air battle: spam cas Naval battle: spam sub Paradox, what the hell

[@00yiggdrasill00]

Yeah there's some balance issues but this build leaves out a few key points. Subs cant detect or engage other subs. If you want to protect your convoys you still need DDs. While it does point out nav bombers he doesn't mention that you can give carrier craft flight zone missions like regular craft to bomb them easy. Make no mistake it's a good strategy for gaming the AI, but youre gaming the AI

[@captainnutsack8151]

Here's the thing: this tactic of spamming subs can be easily countered with Nav Bombers, or DDs with Sonar II. So "spam sub" isn't exactly accurate. You can still get screwed by doing that.

[@tbeller80]

@@00yiggdrasill00 you don't need to worry much about enemy subs in single player. A few planes and a couple weeks and you've crippled the AI sub fleet. And the AI never beefs up their ASW capability so your own subs only have to worry about enemy air.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

@@tbeller80 not typically but I have seen the exceptions.

[@tredbobek]

@@captainnutsack8151 Not in singleplayer

[@SouthParkCows88]

One of the most successful German Uboat captains stated he only launched torpedoes underwater three times and only once at night out of the hundreds of torpedos used. And yes subs have to surface to run diesel to charge the battery which allows the sub to operate underwater. Then the use of a snorkel allowed them to run diesel engines without surfacing.

[@josephdedrick9337]

He was almost forsure one that that captured early ear then by mid to late war they couldn't attack on the surface even at night since radar

[@davilanetworks382]

@@josephdedrick9337 No one in WW2 was picking up and triangulating the location of a surfaced submarine firing its torpedoes using radar. Radar would not evolve to be that precise for decades

[@josephdedrick9337]

@@davilanetworks382 yea maybe it's me but a certain German submarine admiral thought differently. I'd also need tor read the allied side to check.

[@davilanetworks382]

@@josephdedrick9337 I am not trying to troll but we could not even track Japanese carrier groups effectively using Radar in ww2. The thought of picking up a submarine when at the same time picking up a air group over London was a challenge is just silly

[@davilanetworks382]

@@josephdedrick9337 and of course Radar was blamed by some admiral looking to save face. It was the cool thing at the time. In no way does it even remotely make it true. Radar was beyond primitive in ww2.

[@zaph8015]

Also got to take into account ocean terrain too. Once tried to convoy raid the German convoys in the eastern North Sea without knowing that shallow seas give +100% visibility... never again.

[@fluets5658]

Wouldn't 1 +100% still only be 2 visibility?

[@ertrick3693]

@@fluets5658 I'm not sure if it applies the +100% before or after all the modifiers are applied. The base value of Sub 3 is 15, so it could be +100% of that (sorta like how the +15% PP gain Silent Workhorse gives you equates to +.3 PP per day because it calculates from the base value of 2 rather than the final value), or it could be +100% of the final value of 1, which is obtained through the modifiers applied from naval doctrines and certain modules (mainly better engines and snorkels). Couldn't find conclusive results from my search, but if it's the latter then yeah it'd just be a visibility of 2 which I think gives the subs around a base 3% chance of getting spotted every tick, lmao.

[@thirdsin7754]

IIRC the larger sub stacks result in greater losses when they eventually they do get intercepted by a sub-hunting fleet. Smaller stacks, fewer are being exposed in any particular battle. You can react when you see a few battles go poorly vs limp away with a crippled fleet.

[@Glory264]

Whole meta is to spam 36's or 40's subs with max torp attack raiding convoys and sinking whole fleets.

[@tredbobek]

3:51 Italy had a very strong fleet that was roaming the Mediterranean sea, but they didn't have radars and such, so at night the allied ships could just go around them

[@shangtsung2450]

Also, notice that the strat to use cheaper design only works when you don't have access to a lot of shipyards. With access to lots of shipyards, smaller but well armed-fleets actually decimate anything they could outclass. The important part becomes an air support -- if only to break even.

[@stephenjones5049]

Feedback: With naval combat, its all about spotting. Also Feedback: There really is no point in radar. ???

[@SpectreBGM]

Yea , recommends weakest torp tube when in actuality , for optimal raiding you want a bit over 60 torp power so your subs can one shot convoys and it's negligible production cost anyway to get that

[@FeedbackIRL]

Beta theory boy Vs Sigma live life tester. From testing radar made little difference

[@trinalgalaxy5943]

Personally, I would say having a fully kitted out sub with max torpedoes and snorkels have a use: removal of the enemy fleets. With all torpedo upgrades, they can sink any capital ship in a hit. all that being said, I would only have a small fleet (60-100 subs) of these hunter killers and the rest being cheap raiders. When I deploy these, even nations that are hard to suppress like the US will find themselves completely out of ships within days freeing up naval landings completely and allowing your surface fleet to provide bombardment bonuses. carriers allow you to put more fighters and bombers into a region too when you dont have to worry about a hostile ship wandering by.

[@tbeller80]

Always a treat when you see that you've got a naval combat that's been going nonstop for days, and at the end of it you see that you lost 30 subs, but Japan or the US loses 50+ ships including all of their capitols.

[@FilliamPL]

@@tbeller80 Truly an invigorating moment. Losing 50 subs isn't something to scoff at necessarily, but the exchange in production cost is so high that you basically won the entire naval war with said nation.

[@indcraft3454]

Very late reply and probably outdated since i've done this back before la resistance. I once heavily invest in subs when attempting the brevejding achievement. I compared pure snorkle-sub and a snorkle-radar sub. Both decimate the Japanese navy, but the one that have a radar-sub in the pack managed to snapped the japanese fleet faster. Ofc the radar-sub is most likely to die compared to the snorkle. I set my packs to always engage

[@sadettinarslan5324]

i still need 20k production cost super heavy battleship titans in my navy. tiny subs doesnt satiate my hunger for chunkiness. you need some big guns to call the pride of the nation. yeah i love roleplaying a lot.

[@captainnutsack8151]

Lmfao I always still build at least two big boi capital ships no matter what major I play. How can you play Germany without a Bismarck or Tirpitz??? USA with no Iowa?? Blasphemy!

[@Six_slotted]

see im weird but i like to spam BB with 5x light gun haha

[@johnaneurin2856]

tbh I find that escort carriers are the best to counter subs, with a few destroyers with sonar as screens.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

That's actually part of what happened historically.

[@CoolChris2080]

Do you have the carriers on Patrol or do they hold in a region and use the planes to Naval Strike?

[@collectibletaco7797]

@@CoolChris2080 I have mine on convoy escort with 1/3 Fighter, Naval Bomber ratio

[@pocketgroyper9301]

Using small carrier fleets is risky if the enemy has any serious battlefleets, there is a good chance they will send a deathstack fleet to intercept and easily wipe them out, all it takes is your own fleet being occupied in another fight or being too far away and you're losing carriers vs small cheap destroyer fleets

[@purplefood1]

@@pocketgroyper9301 that's why you use escort carriers, nice and cheap variants even better if you can convert older light cruisers

[@pocketgroyper9301]

Setting subs to auto detach and repair works fine because their visibility is low enough for them to get back to base safely, but it is actually very bad to set normal ships especially capital ships to auto detach. If you do so, often what will happen is your navy is out fighting far away from your ports and whenever you have an engagement and ships get damaged, they will auto detach by themselves(with low health too) and be easily intercepted by enemy subs and aircraft and sank on their way back to Port. When choosing to repair normal ships it is best to manually dock the navy at the port where you wish to repair(preferably a 8-10 naval base port) and then detach them yourself when you need to repair them so they are safe the whole time. Be careful too because if you dock at a port that only has like 2 naval bases, the ai will often choose to send the ships to a bigger one so they can repair faster, meaning the ships may end up traveling far away and still get intercepted.

[@TheyCalledMeT]

i don't get the argument take the cheapest torpedo tube .. putting out twice or three times as much dmg with a slighly higher production cost should make your 20% less subs much more efficient since you don't have to push them out in lage stacks so they still are capable of killing the convois but achive the same with half as many subs in a stack and if you aim for .. was it 50 or 60 dmg? to one shot convoys you don't need to reload and shoot again, saving a lot of risk potential aswell as you letting way less convoys flee

[@FilliamPL]

Feedback doesn't understand the game to its entirety like he portrays. Don't listen to him. The slightly higher production cost isn't even an issue considering most navally capable nations can produce enough dockyards to cover that slightly higher production cost. Additionally, it makes no sense for him to suggest the cheapest torpedo tubes considering the fact that the entire design of submarines and their upgrades is to have the highest damage/production cost ratio.

[@Six_slotted]

i like building 4x max torps on sp because its more fun, and the ai is terrible so you can win with any nation any build, but depending on the speed of enemy ships i can see scenarios where its more important to have high speed to run away fast before you get detected. i havent tried mp but from what ive watched its a lot about countering templates through intelligence - depending on which tank design they have maybe your infantry needs at 2, at 3, supp at or line at etc. probably the same for naval matchups. maybe even more because dockyards dont have efficiency you can change design constantly to adapt while with land you have to be sure when changing production

[@MrFaorry]

I normally just 100% ignore the naval aspect of the game because I don't understand a single thing about it, maybe I'll give it a try now though knowing I don't need to worry about fleet composition at all which was honestly one of my biggest concerns.

[@misterbeach8826]

Here's an exploit: Add minelaying to subs. Forget normal gameplay. Spend first weeks and months minelaying. 100 % mine coverage kills everything, slowly though. As Germany, mine first the zones west of the UK, and the zone east of Gibraltar. Then go from there, and refill lost subs and lost mines. After 1-2 years, your enemy has no convoys and navy left. (Edit: But put subs on non-combat.)

[@madkills10]

naval mines also give a massive boost to supremacy in the region

[@SullyStreamin]

i feel like a good navy is crucial to most nations, love this vid

[@country1943]

Yes

[@CoolChris2080]

Great insight into why submarines are strong: it all comes down to how the AI deploys and produces!

[@jyotsnasrivastava6373]

Subs are easy to counter and even AI does well in beginning. I always have shortage of subs as Germany when doing a sub build and I hate the rate at which they die. But, thing is AI is just AI and, it will drain it's entire fuel by assigning it's 200 capital ship deathstack on intercepting subs. And, this is why AI can't win. You know that like 20 destroyers with max sonar and 1 lvl 2 depth charges just counter subs really well.

[@collectibletaco7797]

@@jyotsnasrivastava6373 As Germany keeping a sub fleet is really easy, you just need to rush for snorkel and not raid under red air

[@thewaterlord27]

I remember a playthrough as Germany I had a massive submarine fleet and I was crippling the US by destroy any transport or convoy fleets. I was eliminating so many divisions that I would be lucky and see some US divisions in England or Africa.

[@captainnutsack8151]

Such a gratifying feeling isn't it lol

[@thewaterlord27]

@@captainnutsack8151 it is lol! It’s the Ai keeps trying so much but they always lose so many divisions, from what I remember correctly I had killed over a million US soldiers by just blowing up transports.

[@tbeller80]

Playing as USA I regularly inflict 1 million Japanese casualties at sea.

[@captainnutsack8151]

@@tbeller80 Yup. I actually do the same to the USA when playing as Japan too lol. USA has their infantry division convoys sailing around like vacation cruise ships, oblivious lmao.

[@diedonutpartei3858]

You also need to look out what typ of sea it is don't youse subs on the English channel its a sea with 100+ visibility on subs

[@irontemplar6222]

Radar is actually quite good for convoy raiding subs as it increases spotting chance and range. Youll find the enemy fast and can avoid them faster. Can be worth the extra production

[@Chickentopramen123]

Couple Questions if chat would be so kind: Would an equal number of destroyers kitted with same tier depth charges as a submarines same tier torpedoes counter the subs? If I have a 100 cost of destroyers and a 100 cost of submarines, who wins and do the destroyers truly counter those subs effectively? Are destroyers with torpedoes and light weapons an effective convoy raiding party? Is destroyer convoy raiding a strategy or are subs always king for raiding?

[@FilliamPL]

1st Q: I'd like to give a definite answer, but I'm afraid that is a theoretical with too little constraints to have a proper answer. Spotting is very important for naval engagements. If the destroyers spot the subs first, then they're toast. It goes the same for the destroyers - if they subs get their hits in first, then it'd be over for the DDS. 2nd Q: Destroyers can convoy raid (albeit they'd be better suited to work with light cruisers as well), but subs are the de facto convoy raiding unit considering their range, visibility, production cost, and damage/production cost ratio. Convoy raiding is technically risky if said convoy is being escorted, so if the engagement goes wrong, then I'd rather lose a lower production cost submarine than a slightly higher production cost destroyer. If I may add - all naval engagements boil down to give and take. Giving a beating is different from taking one. Subs are, and still are despite PDX's attempts at changing the meta, incredibly cost effective. Damage/production cost ration is very important to consider. Are cruisers, battleships, and carriers arguably the best naval units in the game? Of course they are - they offer an incredibly high damage potential against any naval unit it encounters. Are the aforementioned ships easily replaceable? Unfortunately, they are not.

[@inc0mingr0flc0pter]

What about snorkels? He mentioned the historical backgrounds of them in the beginning, but never talked about why you should (or shouldn’t) use them. As I understand it, it seems like the decreased visibility would be worth it even on raider to potentially avoid more NAV.

[@megarboh790]

He kept saying the main enemy surface fleet would be a big threat, but with snorkels he lacks the subs would have been invincible

[@154Kilroy]

Don't go below 3 subs in a group, 8 seems to be ideal. Also, radar 3 is worth it. On everything. It increases dmg, and AA by a fair bit. Not just subs. Radar 1 and 2 are pointless except for dedicated spotting ships. Don't bother with sub 1's, they're the definition of 'cheap for a reason'.. sub 2's aren't that bad actually. They're definitely worth building if that's all you got.

[@FeedbackIRL]

Radar does not increase damage of subs

[@154Kilroy]

Not on subs, no. But on surface ships it does. Tier III and up anyways. The only benefit on subs is spotting, but that's rather useful since default spotting is pretty low.

[@Vincrand]

Shouldn't a destroyer with 10 surface visibility and 23.1 sub detection be able to counter your proposed sub, that has 30 surface detection and 12.7 sub visibility? The destroyer is less visible. These numbers are with full trade interdiction researched.

[@suokkos]

Surface and sub visibility work differently. Surface visibility is only modifier to hit chance in battle. Submarines are completely invulnerable as long as they aren't revealed. Visibility also affects chance to spot the fleet before battle. Subs are hunting convoys instead of destroyers. The asymmetric target situation favours subs heavily in SP. You can even build killer subs with snorkel. They can easily defeat any AI fleet if set to no retreat setting. Those subs should have higher torpedos. Hitting destroyers is unlikely which means you want enough attack to kill them with one hit. After screening efficiency goes down capital ships die fast. More details can be found from hoi4 wiki page Naval Battle.

[@crowbarviking3890]

Nice guide!

[@pavelslama5543]

If I dont have time or resources for a full fledged navy, I go for subs combined with light cruisers (or carrier cruisers with the MTG-expanded), as those have huge range and great speed and are pretty good both at raiding and at eliminating enemy destroyers, which makes the job of your subs even easier.

[@noahfrank5359]

I’m not sure if this is correct but I found that you can get light cruisers with max light cruiser guns and max armor so they are still lightt cruisers, they can absolutely shred through screen ships

[@SuperAzoz99]

I once did a meme 400-500 Subs fleet doing minelaying. It obliterated the US Atlantic Fleet. I never did it again because it ruins my SP role playing experience.

[@cc0767]

The best counter to subs is actually tacs, not navs. They seem to have better spotting or something. Probably because Navs represent torpedo bombers and thats not really effective vs subs. Also, you need to pay attention to the sea zones. The english channel is shallow water and thats bad for subs.

[@hardcorehakon]

So I followed your advice, using Australia, I rushed cas 3 and sub 3 (easy to do as Australia), and I used a 7/2 with art, anti-air, armoured recon, light flame tanks. And I realised, my army units are useless, it’s now 1944 and I’ve yet to see a Japanese soldier, the 5 20 strength subs with cas on anti shipping is so op I have been forced to restart, play the same but instead go have fun in Europe and Africa with my army. While I waited I turned indonesia and Malaysia from colonies to annex, and now have the 3rd biggest force on the allies after UK and US. Damn Aus is op if you play with these subs.

[@Six_slotted]

problem with this game is that any nation any build is op vs the AI. and mp seems intimidating to try for the first time because the knowledge barrier seems quite high, where each member of each faction is expected to know the meta tech to research so that lend lease and licensing spreads the tech through the faction fast as possible

[@thegwnhq6247]

Do spotter planes work against subs to spot them for you fleet or other planes to kill them more easily?

[@captainnutsack8151]

If you mean recon planes, then the answer is yes

[@FeedbackIRL]

Yes, but from testing its just as effective to use fighters

[@dylanram4653]

i mean subs destroying destroyers wasnt that uncommon but it defidently wasnt the prize they were after, a strat i would do in wolfpack and silent hunter, (which someone might have done in ww2) was use the aft torpedo as i turn the sub since all 4 of my torps were used in the attack

[@messeuravril540]

6:25 Do not put ships or subs in arctic waters if it can be avoided

[@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329]

How come

[@noneed4sleep64]

@@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 naval terrain penalties

[@karlthorsten9118]

In Silent Hunter 5 and U-boat, I often went for Destroyers as well and larger targets. If you CAN sink them, you should.

[@ertrick3693]

The battle really is, like, 75% spotting the enemy before they spot you. Also what wasn't considered is because you're destroying divisions in troop convoys, you're therefore destroying equipment. The enemy could have a big, meaty 45-width heavy tank division (not that the AI would ever make one), and lose all of its probably 400-500 heavy tanks to some scummy, cheap submarines out at sea. Equipment-wise you could absolutely devastate the enemy not just from lack of resources to build the equipment, but from the equipment you outright destroy from the divisions you exterminate. It has a nasty snowball effect against any nation that needs to send their troops on sea routes where they lose their equipment and the means to replace that equipment.

[@shangtsung2450]

I think, the DDs are unreasonably efficient in terms of anti-submarine capabilities, especially if they're fitted with sonars, radar 4s, and at least a couple of bomb launchers. With 4 bomb launchers, even at level 4, they're becoming pure sub terminators.

[@noldo3837]

Whaaat? Several months back I was building dedicated ASW DDs maxed up as USA, and got ever like 1 sub... And with NAV bombers nanage to sink all enemy subs in 1 month...

[@mygoodmate]

the explanation why is because they where actually "diveboats", germans developed among other technical novelties like the jet engine, the first fully operational u-boats with the XXI and XXIII respectivley, who at once rendered all previously developed underwater vessels obsolete and outdated

[@NonLinearExistence]

Thank dave

[@marthvader14]

Are recon planes any good? How big should the airwings be?

[@GgGTeMpLaR]

so how do you counter play against this then when germany does it to you as UK?

[@Yeoldevideos]

How does this compare to the super speedy light attack cruisers? Fully equipped Cruiser III's are certainly more expensive but I find that they have absolutely no problem taking down the fleets of the UK or US even in very small numbers. Their near-invincibility to ships also means less resources spent on repairs.

[@stoyanb.1668]

It mostly weather you want to spend the time making a good navy and the resources for it. Also with subs even small nations can have a big impact.

[@aidanjones4067]

Ah yes the Straights of Malacca where many new diving sights are made

[@Gregatron13]

I just started playing and I've been devouring your stuff on tank and division design. Do you have anything on air units?

[@chengzhou8711]

Also, naval bombers can use bombs or depth charges

[@FeedbackIRL]

Torpedo's too. Don't forget WW2 subs aren't permanently submerged.

[@chengzhou8711]

@@FeedbackIRL I would say that even an aerial torpedo could probably sink a sub with any decent direct hit, but they would be fairly and accurate and I would prefer one of the other since they could be more precise, especially in other games that feature such a thing. Also, I think as you noted, they can be straight with heavy machine gun fire, I would suppose that a fighter might have enough firepower to sync one, but it would take very concentrated effort with machine guns to sync it if they were, and say, attached to a torpedo (naval) bomber. Hope your day goes well!

[@ryans4325]

Gotta love the guy making a super battleship video that he literally couldn’t kill anything making a naval “meta” video

[@FilliamPL]

He isn't as good at this game as he portrays. He is known for his exploits and loopholes - not his gameplay finesse.

[@ronswearingen552]

I can never figure out the best engagement rule for subs. In my experience, I do lose a lot of them especially if the AI produces convoy escorts of destroyers. Even a small group of, say 5 destroyers, can take out half a dozen or more subs in a group of 25. I don't have the same experience as @FeedbackIRL that my subs escape unscathed from surface fleets. On the other hand, my escort fleets of 10 destroyers and a light cruiser don't sink their subs readily.

[@shangtsung2450]

Could you make a video, whence your sub fleet attempts to engage a fleet of DD-2 with radar-4, sonar-2, and 2x depth-charges-3, with a moderate air support of 200 naval bombers? My guess, is that even with DD-2s, the result would be a 3-4x advantage in favour of DDs. With DD-4s, the numbers would get much higher. Note that the attack profile for a torpedo makes attacking DDs less favourable proposition.

[@speedkiller3026]

They had limited air -> To run the engines -> To charge the batteries

[@hardcorehakon]

Is there a way to make use of the mini sub, or the weight reductions? Like would a level 5 sub with weight reductions making it 20% cheaper have better stats? Or spamming a mini sub with level 1 missiles? Range would be shite like 500ks but you could make sooo many of them it would be a mosquito fleet. Or a swarm of bees.

[@ethanbrown6726]

Did sub4s in 1944 as the soviets and by 1946 I’d sunk the entire worlds navy and killed millions sinking more than 80k convoys

[@CoolChris2080]

I noticed you're not shy about putting your submarines in shallow sea (save for the English Channel, that cursed place). Is it possible to use only submarines to protect one's shorelines from Naval Invasion?

[@FilliamPL]

Feedback either doesn’t understand the nuance or he just doesn’t care about the different sea tile types.

[@cc0767]

@@FilliamPL given his other advice its probably the former, really making a video about subs without mentioning the english channel beeing shallow sea blows my mind

[@captainnutsack8151]

Not only forgot about different sea zone types, he also did not mention the different engagement settings. They make a huge difference in certain situations

[@FilliamPL]

@@cc0767 Unfortunately, he seems a bit... well... uninformed and inexperienced even with all of his time spent playing. To be honest, he's well known for exploiting and taking advantage of gameplay loopholes (which isn't bad), but when you try to talk about what is "meta" without understanding key gameplay elements, then you're not exactly explaining the meta well. Additionally, I can't give him the benefit of the doubt because he's made this mistake in the past.

[@FilliamPL]

@@captainnutsack8151 If I set my subs to always engage at high risk, then I might take more losses to cruiser + destroyer fleets, but they also have the ability to just YOLO it into a carrier/battleship and come out on top... It's rather curious that he just scrapes the surface on things even when he's presenting them as being important.

[@Jive1907]

Can u do one with strategic bombardement: like how big are the effects really, how to proper escort bombers etc

[@FilliamPL]

Strat bombers are very effective because they can target a specific building. If you're engaged in ground battles, then your strategic bombers can be used to target factories, supply hubs, and other strategic buildings. I don't have an incredible amount of experience with them, but they are very strong if used en masse (with escorts). To answer the second part of your question, escorting them is very easy. Technically, you'd want to use heavy fighters because their increased range means they can usually reach the strategic bombers' air zone more easily than fighters; however, if range isn't an issue for your fighters, then there is no need for heavy fighters. Additionally, you want your fighters to be set on the "Air superiority" mission, as this mission will delegate the fighters to escorting the bombers and disrupting the enemy interceptors.

[@deilusi]

what I noticed you want 1 fleet on patrol containing 2-3 destroyers on low risk, with detection. It speeds up stuff as destroyer spots, subs eat it. I only added AA on my destroyers, and they made real mess on naval guys. single destroyer 1940 with just AA destroys like 10-15 planes each. If you manage to get the dual purpose guns, and fully deck something like cruiser maxing the AA Its commical how fast AI is loosing their flying comrades. I call them flyswatters. As AI tends to have 100k planes piled up if you attack usa in ~1946, those things can clear the air in like 6months. subs only get damage from torpedos and depth charges. if you attack large ships, they have none of those. Literally. as old old fleets are mostly big ships, subs destroy.

[@thesilentninja9255]

One thing I have noticed about shipyard production for subs and destroyers I end up with more if I only have half production as in 5 shipyards for each sub or destroyer instead of 10. Noticed this a while ago not sure if it is still currently this way or not.

[@FilliamPL]

I don't recall that being a thing at all. It wouldn't make sense. More dockyards means more production which means more ships produced. If PDX did mess that up at some point, then that would be rather curious.

[@thesilentninja9255]

@@FilliamPL I believe it's a thing of diminishing returns.

[@Coleorton7]

What about Cruiser Submarines? The special sub tech nations like Germany unlock via focus, are they better than sub 3s ?

[@bstingge9263]

What's the meta naval unit for Germany, and if subs, what's best strategy to employ them?

[@megarboh790]

sub 3 with snorkels on always engage, put them anywhere but the english channel

[@timothyhouse1622]

In single player there is no meta because navies are a moot point. You just need them to get superiority so you can do naval invasions and you can achieve that with a handful of bathtubs and naval bombers.

[@aleksandarmanojlovic4988]

1000 bathtubs go brrr

[@kiriseraph9674]

Won't you lose a lot of manpower if you are spamming out weaker ones like that? Maybe it would be better to get at least snorkels and a couple of level 2 torpedoes? And maybe swap over to level 3 torpedos in every slot you can have them if you want to attack their fleet? Mainly because democratic UK has manpower limitations, but I would think this would be the case for minors as well

[@jukebox_heroperson3994]

Completely cutting Japan off is what happened in real life. It was crazy how effective US subs were once their torpedoes got fixed.

[@Glumbus1]

the real naval meta is naval bombers

[@PaulKettlebones]

So the smallest torpedo launcher AND only one of them? 🤯

[@FeedbackIRL]

Mass production bruv

[@SuperDoggy99]

So, is there a use at all for Sub IV's? Are there any circumstances where building Sub IV's would be better than Sub III's?

[@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329]

Sub4s have better stats. He discounted them because of the resources. Hint if you have access to chrome, and since sub4 is a late game tech, you'll probably have a lot of civvies for trade. Absolutely build sub4s is and as soon as you can. Also the visibility stats are so good on it. It takes a lot of spotting, radar, and scouts to find them

[@Six_slotted]

@@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 i dont play mp but from what i understand the meta is that sub 3 is good enough because the side with sub 3 and modern tanks will beat the side with sub 4 and med tanks but then again most mp games ive seen end at '43ish so sub4 and modern tanks arent relevant very often

[@Kohrule]

Спасибо огромное за гайды, очень нравятся твои видео

[@imspudus]

You can add small planes onto subs I believe

[@123ludz]

How do carriers with nav bombers do against subs?

[@FilliamPL]

Sub gets spotted by screen Carrier sends nav bombers to attack Nav bombers and screen ships attack subs What do you think happens next?😃

[@123ludz]

@@FilliamPL dead subs? This is more a question for mp players. 1 carrier, 1 spotter cruiser and 5 destroyers.

[@FilliamPL]

@@123ludz Hm, well in that case, I’d say in a vacuum, you’d need to have something spotting the sub, so your screen would be doing that just fine.

[@12gark]

@@123ludz huge waste: you can put a recon plane on any light cruiser, it's works 90% of what a Carrier can spot with 10% of the cost. And once a sub is spotted, it's usually dead, it has very low stats.

[@12gark]

@@123ludz huge waste: you can put a recon plane on any light cruiser, it's works 90% of what a Carrier can spot with 10% of the cost. And once a sub is spotted, it's usually dead, it has very low stats.

[@adamsaputrama5934]

Thanksss

[@bighit20100]

And what about cruiser subs? With the same build?

[@ScottieMacF]

I play as USA and literally all I do is spam subs and Navs. If I need a surface fleet the original ones will suffice to assist with invasions and such. Subs and Navs and I save all that research time for other things.

[@stoyanb.1668]

I dont even bother with navies in single, i did a wc with the csa, must have sank about 50k convoys from 42 to 45. With the enemy loosing millions in manpower from sunken divisions. It was so ridiculous. But then the game started lagging out cause thousands of subs.

[@qrzpj]

Are naval bombers good?

[@k1ll0raffe]

best strats to counter subs besides navs?

[@reckless20]

Now do a video about what happens when both players are cheesing subs on each other

[@bartomiejwojciechowski3167]

And how to counter this strategy??

[@FeedbackIRL]

NAV's

[@bartomiejwojciechowski3167]

@@FeedbackIRL yup but torpbombers, cas or mid bombers. Which are be The best??

[@FeedbackIRL]

All work. TACs for range, CAS for flexibility and NAV for raw damage

[@fatihbaskin2000]

Convoys have 60hp so torpedo attack should be above 60 I guess.

[@JB-qg2uc]

Do you use the snorkel?

[@FilliamPL]

Snorkel is pretty good. I forget if you can put both the snorkel and radar on subs, but if you can, then I implore you to do so.

[@Kushrenadat]

Good Falme tank builds?

[@fee-ei9ng]

40 submarines is more visible fleet then a submarine?

[@raphaelortman7801]

I know that is the most cost efect, but man a navy full of just subs looks really boring lol but yeah I got your point and that makes a lot of sense, subs are really cheap

[@willywonka6487]

revisiting this vid after many naval playthroughs, even as romania\turkey\etc you can have a big influence with submarines. However, I do find radar to be viable on subs, especially the sub3 with visibility reductions. I think you should revisit this one and test it

[@willywonka6487]

also there are many claims radar helps protect subs from surface pursuit. that needs a lot of testing

[@moyo2850]

i think something you dont talk about thats important is manpower costs. subs 4 better use manpower if your short.

[@michal1743]

What is better navy: subs or bombers? ;)

[@general6419]

Paratrooper Invasion>>>>>>naval Invasion change my mind

[@thealien2411]

Only time I bothered to make a "navy" with a minor was when the exploit was still around. Naval invading from the air is just so much more efficient lol

[@CoolChris2080]

Depends upon your access to aluminum, rubber and air fields I think. Achieving Air Superiority can get quite expensive whereas Naval Superiority can be achieved with cheap steel bathtubs.

[@thealien2411]

@@CoolChris2080 Well, even with oman i could just put 1 military factory in transport plane in the start of the game and even without resources i could make 4 transport planes before invading the UK. And they dont put their fighters up if they are not feeling threatened in the area/air zone so you can just paradrop with zero air superiority.

[@kptlt.phillipthomsen5973]

Deathstack and the cheap subs work early game and against dumb A.I If you use even a half decent late game Hunter Killer group, they'll eat those things for lunch

[@deplorabledegenerate2630]

I hear you say "this is for single player, not multiplayer" and my eyes glaze a little. Like the AI needs help losing. I play suboptimal on purpose to give the AI a chance. I use console commands to fix their shitty templates.

[@Crembaw]

Not the subs I was searching for, my bad.

[@metestrongman6270]

15:20 thats the most english word I have ever heard

[@noldo3837]

I have some 3000+ hrs, and never found use for more than 80 subs...

[@juanpablomolina1523]

Very nica music

[@fluffycommander]

Yes but I love slapping on modules for my ego

[@maxxgrumpy]

plus they lose war support by convoy raiding

[@raxsavvage]

me and my nuclear subs agree and approve, but, they aint doing shit to 10s of thousands of bombers its a saturation thing

[@raxsavvage]

current game is in 1976, its been an uttershit show china with its 117-150 million spare man power and in the co-prosperity ...... are just EVERYWHERE - fortress ireland , still holding

[@wddaww]

Am I the only one who refits my old subs with new gear?

[@megarboh790]

no snorkel on subs?

[@kilianfirebolt]

if youre a minor nation just spam out the cheapest bath tubs with engine 1 and one torpedo tube 1

[@uwuthanizeme5462]

YOU DON'T HAVE LONG HAIR IRL????? still looking good tho💪

[@rixgaming9989]

Yeah, man but WW3 is breaking out and the Queen of England just died. Gonna watch this one later ;)

[@klake5375]

She didn't die

[@rixgaming9989]

@@klake5375 oh, yeah i forgot she only dies if the BBC says so.

[@HelicopterShownUp]

eh-ni-elated