Female Heroes Kind of Suck...

[@rodbarnes9624]

*Nerdrotic said it best:* _"Disney took a boy brand that EVERYONE liked and turned it into a girl brand that NOBODY likes."_

[@bamboosho0t]

I re-watched "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," and the female heroine and "villain" stole every scene *organically.* And the fact these studios are doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on this effort to ram-rod the snarky, overpowered, know-it-all "Boss Babe" down the viewer's throats, is nauseating.

[@jackskellingtonsfollower3389]

Exactly. But it's not just movies. Video games are dealing with the same problem. Producers and sometimes developers are trying to shove well established IPs into an audience that doesn't exist. Star Wars was primarily geared towards a male audience, but there were still hundreds of female fans after 'A New Hope' released in theaters back in the day.

[@parlamrl]

True

[@Boogi3Don]

It’s not even a girl brand. It’s a woman brand. A woke woman brand that despises men

[@ShooterMcgavin119]

@bamboosho0t was thinking something similar this weekend. I was rewatching Scream, the first movie, and they didn't have to cram Neve Campbell down our throats, as a bit of a badass. Her last fight with Matthew Lillard is totally believable, and the fight fight Sleet Ulrich as well. She doesn't overpower everyone, doesn't talk like a dude, and doesn't frown like she's constipated the entire film.

[@Cynidecia]

We need Heroines, not Female Heroes.

[@raymondamador1487]

I think Quake, from Agents of Shield, is a good female hero

[@chasehedges6775]

YES💯💯

[@darkarrow3683]

@@raymondamador1487She’s an exception. I liked her as a character as well

[@pokegod99]

​@@raymondamador1487She started as a hacker and became an agent/superhero by tragedy mainly Grant Ward.

[@Theokal3]

... those are the same thing

[@purelysmetalnightcore]

People keep forgetting to add that Valkyrie was literally a trafficker that had no problem selling aliens, including an Asgardian, with a strong possibility that they'd die. And now she's the king of New Asgard.

[@petermj1098]

Ikr she was literally betraying the prince of her own kingdom while Hela was killing other Asgardians.

[@John-fk2ky]

Then there’s simple word choice. Why the heck is she “king”? The term “queen” is there for female rulers. If you made a literal translation of certain languages to English, the term for a ruler might be purely masculine (such as “emperor” in Chinese, with “empress” always literally meaning a consort rather than a ruler), but that’s when you apply context and use correct English terminology. It seems the writers are in fact quite misogynistic and see female terms as lesser than the male equivalents.

[@Fe7Ace]

@@John-fk2ky I don't remember if her being called King was in Endgame or if it was just in a Waititi movie, but if it was just the Waititi movie then you're probably overthinking it because Waititi is like a kid, and would do that for the same reason Elisabeth was the "king" of the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean just because it's suppose to be funny or goofy and to take seriousness away from issues of authority.

[@StefanHillier]

Even though she was a drunkard she was still able to function well enough to do her job. Cut to Thor being a drunkard and suddennly he's overweight, playing video games and generally a joke.

[@purelysmetalnightcore]

@StefanHillier Yeah his very real and understandable trauma and his reaction to it was made into a punchline instead of serious and sad.

[@classic.cameras]

WE WANT WRITERS! Good writers period.

[@chasehedges6775]

Exactly💯

[@Liqo315]

Facts🗣💯

[@chasehedges6775]

@@Liqo315 Yep

[@olsjonaspetterolsson3220]

Yes, we do.

[@Yojinj]

I rather take writers without a period. But who are we kidding, most male writers in current Hollywood wish they had a period....

[@amanabananas]

The girl power bit in the endgame fight made no sense. Imagine If in the middle of all the fighting your teammate ditches you just to gather in a corner with all the other girlies cuz...ovaries ??🤨🤨

[@John-fk2ky]

Even being generous that they didn’t ditch the others and just ended up there, they were originally all over the place. How the heck did they end up all in one spot? It doesn’t work no matter how you look at it.

[@jimthar17]

I literally looked at my friend in the theater and said, “really”?!

[@richborn6700]

Plus most of them don't even know each other, yet pulled up like they all have a group chat

[@terryrocks2j]

I remember some posts where even women were like, "really?" or it was cringe to them.

[@andrewberna4045]

It proved the point that all the men kept working while they gathered to fix their make up and pat themselves on the back.

[@RobotShlomo]

We "got here" because this new crop of showrunners and directors think the hero's journey is "outdated". They see it as a, and I'm about a cringe so hard that I might break the screen, a construct of the patriarchy because it's been used to tell stories about men who rise to the occasion to become heroes. That in and of itself is BS, because there's nothing in the hero's journey that says that the hero of the tale has to be a man. There's also this obsession with this idea that morally ambiguous characters are some how "nuanced" and deep, which is once again BS. So you have things like the Acolyte which tell us the good guys are really the bad guys, and the bad guys are somehow misunderstood because the good guys are really mean to them. UGH! We see how far this has gone, with Disney especially, with their whole movie Cruella. They tried to make a character who wants to murder puppies and wear them as a coat, whose name is literally "cruel devil", into a sympathetic character. A good example of a nuanced character is (and I'm not sure if this really applies but indulge me here) Anavel Gato from Gundam 0083. He believes in the cause, but he starts to question whether the mission is the best way to achieve that, and asks "Am I doing the right thing?". That seed of doubt is illustrative of a more complex and much more well thought out character than 10 Carol Danvers. There also seems to be this idea again, with Disney especially, that you can not show a woman being wrong, or having to pay for their crimes. How many times do we get what I call the "CW ending", where the bad guy (usually a woman like Alice on Batwoman, whom I call "Raging Karen) just walk out of the room? And then the good guys just let her go. No daring escape. No jumping out a plane and pulling the ripcord. Just "Oh, golly gee shucksie doodles. She's walking out of the room. If there were only some way I could make her pay for her crimes". Yeah, stop her and throw her in prison, ya moron! Disney seems to be the main offender here, but there's been plenty of others such as Star Trek Discovery. I had this other bit about how writers don't know how to write and can't create good guys vs bad guys plots anymore, but that's for another day.

[@WarlockX4]

Great post.

[@jjhh320]

Goated 0083 mention

[@gregorysaugustine5236]

Kudos to you for mentioning a gundam character. Gundam in my not so humble opinion, a much more cared and loved franchise than the current star wars franchise. Sunrise and Bandai has given the fans what they want in the form of Gundam Seed Freedom and the fans reciprocate it with 4 billion yen, making it the most successful gundam movie outside of the main timeline. In contrast, star wars has been used as a channel for identity politics and gave the fans star wars acolyte which is the worst tv show ever. Not as a star wars tv show, just a tv show. The fans has been derided and called names ranging from bigoted to racist when those words are more appropriately applied to themselves.

[@shenotski]

I suggest people actually go into it, the standard one is very much a mans, women have their own and that's the problem, they never adapt the classic female heroes stories from the past.

[@bullmoose5574]

Star Trek Discovery had such awful writing

[@nicoleg2544]

Steve Rogers is by far my favorite superhero. He’s endeared himself to me with one simple line. “I don’t want to kill anyone. I just don’t like bullies, I don’t care where they’re from.” He spends every single one of his movies showing us that this is firmly where his values and morals are. He is a hero to aspire to.

[@kman9884]

Cap 1 was the last, legitimately, good MCU movie. Which is funny since it’s the second MCU movie.

[@thechallenger752]

It’s actually the fifth movie, after both Iron Man films, Thor, and the hulk movie.

[@GunFuiChi]

"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mob says. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right... When the mob and the press and the whole world tells you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree by the river of truth and tell the world, 'No. You move.'" - Cap'n America to Spiderman. These are the words of a truly moral man. A true hero.

[@bustavonnutz]

@@thechallenger752All gold, bro is still 100% right, everything after the 1st cap movie (besides Black Panther & Endgame can't lie) everything in the MCU has been kinda trash

[@ducedevlstear2471]

And they are trying to sell us Captain Africa America instead.

[@lordsinister707]

We "got here" because activists convinced studios that there was an untapped market for the "modern audience." That pandering to them would replace old audiences and boy did that backfire

[@randomcenturion7264]

And studios, being the greedy, coked up zombies they are, actually bought that.

[@elongatedmanforever1252]

Absolutely the modern audience.

[@joshuakelley438]

The problem is that there is an untapped market for the modern audience. It's still untapped though, because studios hire fucking idiot writers.

[@jilhaneyisaiahdanielb.8878]

I can be left but not that far left bullshit ruined my work.

[@coldsoul333]

Who is "the modern audience" I'm sure not one of them.

[@XiaoFury]

They're based on the feminist movement, and this is why the female heroes are awful. Everything is about sticking it to the man, being better than a man, and actually becoming a man! It's absurd.

[@Lok-TM]

Based

[@gambitacio]

Too bad they they were on their knees begging for a man when the war in Ukraine happened. Never saw a feminist in family court either. 😂😂😂

[@ishma2100]

😂 I have two black young female cousins, They used to be feminist and attend Meet up groups and conferences. Pretty much what you have described is what they had observed, ( 🤔 They also saw alot of lesbian over tone). At the end of the Day they still saw themselves as black women who are still underpaid, under value and mis understood by women of other cultures.

[@occasional-dabbler]

Two things turned me off while watching Captain Marvel. First, she was a jerk to nearly everyone around her (especially but not only the men), and never stopped being a jerk: rude, arrogant and dismissive. And second, her great breakthrough to gain her full power was...she just decided to. The childhood montage at the end showed she had always had that 'fall down and stand back up' trait, not that it was significant growth of character. (OK, the third major turnoff was what they did to ruin Fury, but that's a different rant.) But yeah, the key problem to me about current female heroes is precisely that they almost never seem to really struggle, they just inherit/steal/stumble/wish their way to power and victory, and are usually arrogant jerks along the way. There's no sense of risk or peril, just the wait until the director decides enough screen time has passed and it's time to wrap it up.

[@martinportelance138]

She never was in any danger, and everyone was letting her ramdomly destroy appliances out of machissimo. Boring, unsufferable chick and flick. To the film makers' credit, she never was an interesting character in comic form to begin with (even the male original was bland as beige IMO), no matter how hard Marvel tried to push her down our throats.

[@csebesta84]

That girl power scene in End Game…my whole theater groaned. I rolled my eyes so hard. Everything I love about being a woman has been taken away from these characters. They’ve turned them into men.

[@ModpotTheFirst-ye3ix]

Except for two things. Firstly, men don't behave that way. In battle they would depend on and work together with everyone on their side. They would never leave the women to fend for themselves and have a "bro-power" moment. Secondly, while I agree to some extent that they've tried to turn the women into men, they've simultaneously tried to turn the men into incompetent children who cannot accomplish anything without the leadership of a strong woman. These writers aren't just destroying female characters, but male characters too.

[@jeremyknight9980]

9:52 to 10:56 I still can't believe they did that to She Hulk, in the comics and cartoons while she enjoyed her powers she never treated Bruce wrong and never tried to prove the haters wrong. Nowadays they have her whining about how no one takes her seriously, hates being attractive (even though that's what she wanted) and wishes she was like Bruce where he's always in fear of hurting/killing his loved ones. The point of She Hulk was that she was the opposite of the Hulk.

[@terryrocks2j]

Exactly, it was the other way around where she became more attractive when she became She-Hulk. Rather than fearing it, she embraced it. The show made her character so unrecognizable.

[@gambitacio]

⁠@@terryrocks2jWasn’t the ‘80s-‘90s She-Hulk more introverted but when she became She-Hulk, she became more confident, and embraced that side of herself?

[@VilikesaTuragakula]

The past female characters were like this: weakness is really what makes a female character strong, where they learn from it and work their way to overcome it. It takes time, yes, but time to heal, grow and develop mentally and physically while still maintaining yet perfecting emotional traits. That way, being labeled as a hero is earned. This era's female characters are like this: you are female, so you HAVE to be an emotionless, perfectly skilled robot queen who talks agenda down on everyone who simply wants to help. Yeah, good times. 😢

[@sianais]

No need to overcome anything when plot armour takes care of everything. Kill Bill was freaking awesome. "Wiggle your big toe," just popped into my head because revenge stories is being talked about in the video. 9:18

[@VilikesaTuragakula]

@sianais Huh?

[@riteshjadhav1382]

Yeah

[@MrPopo-nn7kp]

@sianais kill bill sucked aswell

[@lokilover1315]

Sylvie is the worst. The moment she showed her face, she told not only Loki, but us that "this isn't about you." She also proved it. She took Loki's first season away from him. It was her story. The only time she really took a step back, was in season 2.

[@dannypalin9583]

The biggest irony, I always thought, about The Multiverse Saga at that point was that women were completely at fault for Kang being a threat. Sylvie killed He Who Remains, who was stopping the Multiverse going crazy, and Janet refused to talk about Kang and her time in the Quantum Realm.

[@FritzTheCat_1030]

This has happened with nearly every series Disney has produced in recent years that has a male lead. Kate Bishop saves the day in Hawkeye while he's stuck in a Christmas tree. The Obi-Wan series was hijacked by the Inquisitor Reva story. The writers in Book of Boba Fett made sure that Fennec Shand was always right and made to be superior to the title character in every possible aspect. And their most successful series, The Mandalorian...its success as a male-driven story could not be allowed to continue, so Bo-Katan had to be made the lead in season 3.

[@BrandonScott-mi5pz]

EXCELLENT NERDWORD WORK. FEMINIST FEMALES CHARACTERS LACK OF STORYLINES

[@nicoleg2544]

Season two did a monumental amount of weightlifting for that show. I was equal parts surprised and grateful season two showed us in great detail just how wrong Sylvie was in her actions, as well as demonstrated the extent of heroism that Loki had to step into in order to fix the problem that she created and single-handedly hold the entire Multiverse together. While her motivation for killing the one who remains as understandable, season two doesn’t pretend like what she did was the right thing.

[@TheRockerX]

Sylvie was never portrayed as a hero though. She was a selfish person, even her ultimate betrayal at the end of season 1 was faithful to her previously established character

[@ULTIMATZEKROM]

Something you forgot about Riri Williams. She wasn't just told that she couldn't be the next Iron Man by her teacher. Riri forced the teacher to say that so she could prove the teacher wrong, at least in the comics (not sure what they'll do for the MCU version). She literally was like "Oppress me so I can prove you wrong, white woman".

[@ieatpeopleand]

Oh, I'm sure the new origin will have that teacher dressed in a suit designed by Hugo Boss; specifically the 1939 collection.

[@bobnix3240]

This right here. Riri was told "You can be anything you want to be," and she got MAD about it and picked a fight with her teacher until the teacher was like, "Fine, you can't literally be Iron Man, because there's already an Iron Man, and he's a billionaire genius who started with a personal fortune." That's her origin story. "Oppress me so I can defy you."

[@theangryotaku3361]

@@bobnix3240 and then she didnt even do anything unique beyond literally colonize Iron Man's old work while screaming and crying about oppression

[@terryrocks2j]

Exactly. They conveniently left that part out in the movie where she said she forced her teacher to say that. All she said was something like, "they said to me you can never do it" or something like that. Now, don't be shy Riri, finish the part where you forced the teacher to say that.

[@_dragonstorm_2635]

10:10 I still can’t get over this shit they pulled in she-hulk. What makes it worse is that these people are cousins, but in the comics they love each other like siblings. So it’s not like she didn’t know he went through all this shit. And she still said this garbage to his face. For me, this was the absolute lowest point the MCU has gone for me.

[@sianais]

I can't explain the degree of pure loathing I felt when she said that. I'm still pissed off about that show.

[@kman9884]

Being catcalled by men is totally the same thing as the US military trying to kill you every second of every day, and being a slave forced to fight in an alien gladiatorial pit, y’know.

[@chasehedges6775]

Elizabeth Olsen deserves better than the MCU, IMO. She’s a talented actress.

[@ss2gora0]

Who would've thought we'd be saying that 5 years ago? wow lol

[@chasehedges6775]

She was always good tho especially in Age Of Ultron(2015)

[@Rankbaajin]

💯

[@chasehedges6775]

@@Rankbaajin 🙏

[@theraVen27]

Call me crazy, I love the actress and the story. She’s not a hero. She was tormented and broke. She has the power to change so she created change. The woman was enslaved abused killed her love lost her family multiple times over. Her snapping makes perfect sense and one day she will do it again while “snapping” mutant kind. She is not supposed to be a hero

[@VDOTU5]

It seems like people, let alone women who actually hate women/girls got hired to write female characters by 2017 or so. Ophelia Sarkissian, I'm sorry, Anita Sarkissian and her "everything is ist/phobic", female-focused movement in video games spread across other areas. I've said it before, I'll say it again, Power Rangers has more interesting, funny, feminine, tomboy, caring, dynamic women/girls than the post-2017 MCU. Even in Power Rangers seasons that are not that good to most of us PR followers.

[@1Gr8Editrix]

It's not women they hate. It's feminity.

[@Dawsatek22]

ha funny i was before i was watching this i was looking for lore about lauren shiba ( a female red ranger from power rangers samurai)

[@VDOTU5]

@@Dawsatek22 Nice. And Lauren is also more interesting than a bunch of women characters lately. Even though we had her for 3 episodes. 😆😫

[@elongatedmanforever1252]

By people you mean f-menists??

[@elongatedmanforever1252]

How do they hate women though?? I don't think they do, they just are using them to push a narrative.

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

Classical female heroes are fantastic, look and Victorian English stories, Greek stories, Chinese stories. And females heroes in movies and TV before the 2000's where 80 to 90% great (Aliens, Tomb Raiders, Kill Bill, Terminator 1+2, Gone with the wind, etc etc)

[@chasehedges6775]

Older stuff is better, really.

[@VeraxMusic]

@@chasehedges6775 Yup, because people created stories in good faith, not to _prove a point_

[@chasehedges6775]

@ 💯

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

@@VeraxMusic 💯

[@Vespyr_]

Alita: Battle Angel came out at the same time as Captain Marvel and was the perfect counter example to this culture. I wish more people went out to see it, and that more people actually talked about her.

[@tomebasic2843]

That movie was trash, it can't hold a candle to it's source material in terms of story and characters...

[@chasehedges6775]

Tina Majorino as Enola in Waterworld(1995) and Aubree Miller as Cindel in Ewoks The Battle For Endor(1985) are honestly better well written and better acted female characters than anything of these Modern MCU female superhero characters.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

Except Wonder Woman and Black Widow... and Wanda, prior to that show... Off the top of my head, those are the only three exceptions in the current MCU. Most of the rest are just there to express the Miss Andry.

[@Evets_03]

Since we’re on the subject, Disney did a better job with diversity and women when they weren’t even trying. (Jasmine, Tiana, Nani, Kenai) Also introducing the new generation of marvel heroes by having them be in streaming shows that less people watch than movies or even having them be side characters should’ve been an obviously bad idea One more thing is that Disney just gave us the acolyte with easily some of the worst female characters and protagonists in years

[@SammyRobinson62232]

“When they weren’t even trying” That’s such a big lie as if you look up the development of the movies. Yes they’re trying. Along with watching the movies yourself

[@inazuma3gou]

I liked it when Disney was aware of its damsel in distress trope and had the playfulness of poke fun of itself (Enchanted). This turned ugly when they went for bitter power grabs.

[@ShadowRulah]

Trying is the problem. When a character is a mouthpiece for a race or gender they cease to be a coherent character.

[@dannypalin9583]

@@SammyRobinson62232 The passive aggression is strong.

[@SammyRobinson62232]

@@dannypalin9583 I’m just saying that the the comment isn’t true at all

[@thatguy-jl4ni]

Pretty much all the lead actors in Black Panther. That movie was so arrogant, pretentious, and racist I could even watch the whole thing.

[@chasehedges6775]

I feel bad for the actress who played Layla in MoonKnight, May Calamawy. She did her best but her character was horribly written.

[@suzygirl1843]

Why did she leave out conveniently Black Panther: Wakanda Forever? Literally that is hands down the best female Superhero group

[@wildcardscooby2138]

​@@suzygirl1843.........

[@chasehedges6775]

Black Panther 2 sucked

[@suzygirl1843]

@@chasehedges6775 Whites aren't reliable narrators or critics hence why Asian cinema is thriving right now. The West isn't suffering because of DEI, it's dying due it lack of imagination and it hit a wall. White people just simply aren't creative anymore, they steal ideas from the East. Black Panther and Wakanda Forever were hella original

[@suzygirl1843]

@@chasehedges6775 White movies suck. The best movies are East Asian

[@Muhammad-Jacobs699]

These writers unknowingly turn their female-heroes into villains, and audiences aren't allowed to call them out for doing it. I genuinely think they believe they're in the right for c̶o̶r̶r̶e̶c̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ reversing years of "toxic masculinity" as they call it, by replacing all male hero roles with masculine female ones. Their idea of a strong woman is constrained only to physical strength and appearances. They see having emotions, empathy, beauty in women as weaknesses to be discarded. To further my point, you now see more men depicted with these traits instead. The men in these shows are now the ones trying to convince the female heroes that they're doing something wrong, but are just brushed off with a 'You're just a weak, dumb man, I know better' attitude.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

The fact they decry men for ‘toxic masculinity’ and yet portray their ‘strong female characters’* with the exact same ‘toxic’ traits and expect them to be lauded shows us far more about the writers than they realize. * I cannot call them heroes or protagonists because they clearly aren’t

[@stackels97]

It's ironic that so many modern writers think they're being progressive with many female and minoroty characters when, in fact, most of the time, they've ended up writing 1 or 2 dimensional stereotypes who are more insulting than inspiring or even interesting. There's so much hubris is believing that we didn't already have amazing female characters in Sci Fi in the past. The late 90s and early 2000s had some of the best action/sci fi female characters to grace the small screen. Gove me 10 Jadzia Daxs over any of todays 'modern' female heroes.

[@Dazgul]

In Wonder Woman 1984 Steve is in the body of another man but we as the audience see Steve, helping us forget this fact and make it palatable. Diana sees the face etc of the other guy, unless she is hallucinating through 'love'.🙄 So it's actually worse than you described.

[@jimthar17]

And they had sex, thus raping the aforementioned man’s body. Not to mention it was highly suggested that he was gay so they also too away his sexual preference

[@slikmar]

Don't forget, she was willing to let her powers go away and the world go to $$$$ if it meant he could stay. Once again, it was Steve who made the sacrifice to save everyone, not Diana. If they had let Diana make that conclusion to let Steve go, would have been much better. Plus, they ruined Cheetah for any future. She should have been the main villain.

[@johnstrife7]

​@@jimthar17 when is it highly suggested that he was Gay?

[@akanomamushi15]

Wonder Woman 1984 is like that due to Patty Jenkins was given full control over the movie, which also includes writing. She also wrote the story for this. This is a clear contrast to the first movie whose story was written by three people.

[@NoirNameless]

Female heroes are great. The way that most currently are written just isn’t. Every character in that thumbnail could’ve been compelling, complex, and interesting characters in the right hands. Kinda wish the focus never shifted to “Strong female characters” And stayed locked at “a strong character who just so happens to be a woman, black, gay”, etc.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

They *could* have been... if not for the reason that most of them have been pushed into it... which *prevents* them from being good. First, DEI... and second, Miss Andry... Or to put it another way... they exist simply TO exist... while expressing how inherently superior they are, compared to anything with "dangly bits".

[@preetiraut7700]

But Women body, hardship, life is quite different from Man. You can't just write character that fits on every gender. Female gender is quite different from male

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@preetiraut7700 Yes, but they can't admit that... because "men and women are different" = transphobic.

[@mihneaiordan1813]

​@@preetiraut7700 of course, but the character still has to be good, no?

[@remipoujoulat7759]

0:10 I mean look at this image... Not only you need to be quite high to not see any problems with that but also look at the character on the very right, she is the worst offender, she is a shrimp ! She wouldn't survive any violent situation no matter how small it is. Plus the overall girl heroes thing is so illegitimate, instead of creating their own franchise and their own original ideas, they take advantage of existing IPs, infiltrate and destroy them.

[@kaseempayne2212]

What was “Mantis” from Guardians of the Galaxy going to do in battle with the rest of the women? That whole scene just looked forced.

[@stormtroopertk8]

Umm what are you talking about. Are you saying that they all suck when they don’t ALL suck. Or are you saying they aren’t original which makes no sense considering all character from the MCU are from the comics… mostly

[@Ira_Ross]

They're women first, heroes second.

[@citycrusher9308]

Man bashers first - and only.

[@John-fk2ky]

If you wrote that out as part of how a character works, that’s perfectly normal. Being female should result in a character acting differently than a male character in the same situation. The problem is that the writers only focus on the character being female and that the character being the protagonist makes her a hero regardless of her actions. The character actually acting like a hero doesn’t even register to the writers.

[@libertyprime1614]

They are just super without the hero part.

[@noylj1]

As horrible as these "stories" are, the biggest flaw is how morally bankrupt and evil so many of these female "heroes" are. There is no hero arc, since women need no training and are perfect from the very beginning.

[@HyJyncks]

Yeah, but they were badasses and did badass things. What about that? Never mind the multiple genocides of Captain Marvel. Forget about Wonder Woman hijacking a man's life. Don't worry about the fact that Echo was a ruthless killer that changed her mind for literally no reason. And dismiss the fact Ironheart has literally no character. All you need are flashing lights and explosions. And if you don't like it, you're the problem. The writers and directors? They did nothing wrong. Hell, they did nothing at all. It's bad because you have high expectations. (That they initially set 10 years ago but don't think about it.)

[@christophertaylor9100]

don't forget the sky beam

[@preetiraut7700]

And IRON man who was Playboy used to fk many women he was good character for you. Also Loki he was villain too in the start did you had the same problem when his character changed and become good anti hero. There are many anti hero I can name who has done lot's of bad things still movie shows them hero

[@christophertaylor9100]

The idea that Mjolnir suddenly is sentient or that it can grant the power to be Thor to whom it chooses was out of nowhere and made no sense either. It was just an excuse to make Jane into better Thor.

[@chrischreative2245]

Luke Skywalker….Aunt and uncle killed, obi-wan killed, fails in training, hand cut off, finds out Vader is his dad, etc…..Rey basically is given all his stuff with no struggle and steals his name

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Don’t forget they make the guy who tried to find the good in a cold blooded murderer and help him find a form of salvation decide to kill his nephew because ‘he had bad vibes’ or something, and then screwed off to who knows where to sulk and drink green milk. And then there’s the tragic story of a fiery princess and leader of a rebellion who took no shots from anyone that becomes little more than a floor mat of a pathetic ‘resistance’. Oh we can go on all day about how DEIsney screwed everyone over in the Sequels.

[@jimthar17]

I said from the moment i saw it that TFA is a rehash of the original SW story. It’s almost exactly the same.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@jimthar17💯💯💯

[@Player-re9mo]

As a religious straight white man from Eastern Europe who is also writing a female superhero, I hope I'll manage to create a memorable character, putting all Hollywood supes to shame!

[@KrossAvVe]

Best of luck to you! ^^

[@Hiushisan]

One that particularly bugged me was America Chavez from Dr Strange 2. It was supposed to be his movie, but she is pushed as basically the greatest thing ever, (even though she's insufferably boring), giving him basically no room to do anything that mattered. Dr Strange 1 was one of my favorite MCU films, it sucks that he didn't get a sequel of his own.

[@demarcomali9611]

She’s important because she has 2 moms, get a grip

[@ShadowRulah]

The problem is representation. It's not hard to write a good female character but when it's "representation" she becomes a representative and everything she says and does is a reflection of all women. We have a bunch of stoic girlbosses learning they were perfect all along and not to let society hold them back because it's a safe direction.

[@VeraxMusic]

This will sound terrible, but a show like Echo (the way it was written) would've only worked if the actress was drop dead gorgeous.

[@dennydude]

The problem is... they are NOT heroes. They are just people with powers.

[@Luxord5294]

The biggest issue I have found with the "Characters" is that they are not characters in the story. They are the Self-Inserts for the female writers who don't care about the damage they are doing to a beloved IP, they just want people to ooo and aaa over them. Then they show their true colors when the film or show bombs, using every flavor of ist/phobe they can to push the blame onto everyone else except them...

[@bigb4159]

My problem with the girl boss narrative. The need for the writers to kill off the male characters to make the female character relevant. When they make them obnoxious by saying they don’t need anyone or when they make them a Mary Sue. People don’t have a problem with strong female leads, it’s how they’re written in today’s climate.

[@quinnchilds914]

I love this take. There's no more Cynthia Rothrock, in "Martial Law", or Gina Davis, in "A Long Kiss Goodnight". There's real live stunts, along with a back story.

[@andrewbrennan2891]

Princess Leia, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor. 3 heroic female characters that were well written, well developed and loved by the fans. Most of the comic book female characters (other than Wonder Woman) were just copies of male characters with little development or thought and movies made that lack of development worse with very lazy writing. I liked the Jessica Drew Spider-Woman and the early She Hulk comics despite their obviously being copies of a male character. I'm sure movie writers could make a decent female super hero film but I'm not holding my breath.

[@shaoronmd]

"how did we get here" DEI hire. instead of hiring good writers, they focused on things unimportant to writing. Not only movies, even games have the exact same problem. also, these aren't heroes/heroines. they're caricatures and self inserts. they think they are righteous but aren't self aware enough to know that they could be wrong and are in fact the villains

[@jrpotter9659]

She-Hulk misses the true philosophy of what Hulk is. The story of the Hulk is a very masculine. As men we must control our BEHAVIOR otherwise we could actually kill the people near us. Anger is the hardest for us to control and a when a man cannot control his behavior when angry other men will hunt him down for the sake of everyone he puts at risk. That is what the story of the Hulk is about, because even a "mild-mannered" man who becomes violent when angry is a threat to everyone around him. Women will get mocked for losing control when angry but rarely get put in prison even when they become violent. That is why She-Hulk cannot work

[@sethmcclain8517]

I never thought about the morals of these “heroes” until now, I was always disliked them because they were obviously made to step on their predecessors, and bring a middle-finger to the fans. I never thought about the fact that these individuals were written without the concept of what a hero actually is. That being someone who puts their own lives aside for the greater good.

[@Zeoran]

I GUARANTEE you that NO ONE car called Jen Walters.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Here’s one you didn’t mention: Lady Galadriel from the Lord of the Rings. In the Rings of Power ‘show’, more like torture session, she is very bit the condescending, aggressive, narcissistic, Mary Sue girl boss type and the show runners expect that to be empowering? To those that have read the Silmarillion, and even those that have only seen the movies/read the books, this is a pure travesty of her character. The source material paints her as a majestic, wise, beautiful, proud, strong, self willed, generous and merciful, ambitious and adventurous, loyal, a master of magic with no equal (aside from the literal gods), and more. How do you screw up such a character like that and expect adulation?

[@ChristianFrates1997]

Fiona Belli from Haunting Ground is better written than most female characters nowadays.

[@tarnishedknight9909]

Something that always bugged me about hte Farce Awakens is Reyy, who has been abanoded for how ever long still looks like she stepped out of a make up chair. For me, I miss female characters such as Ripley, Sam Carter, Zoe Washburne, Princess Leia BEFORE the Dinsey Trilogy, Sarah Conner, to name a few

[@animesjogoseseriesclassica8282]

Its obvious that characters without or that never acknowledge their flaws and keep winning without any challenge always end being either boring or obnoxious. Everyone knows that but some people have such massive egos that they keep doing them like that anyway and then after keep crying when nobody likes them.

[@VantasticJackson]

I forgot what movie it was because i viewed it in highschool. It was a movie about a mother realizing her husband was lying, cheating and abusive. So she ran away from him with her daughter. But he kept chasing after her. No matter where she went. She was trying her best to keep both herself and her daughter safe. But this guy kept finding them. And then she decided to stop running. She took up self-defense. She learned how to protect herself. And finally, she. Fought. BACK. It was amazing. Sadly i don't remember the name of the movie. This was some time before 2018.

[@ryeis1]

Aways good to hear the NerdWord!

[@chasehedges6775]

Same 💯💯

[@hughallison4639]

No one can convince me that Echo was good, or the Black Widow film.

[@AdeleKakwandi]

Black Widow for the majority part has been a great character. She escaped most of the brunt of Marvel turning intersectional till very recently.

[@nickelsdimes8643]

I've already forgotten about all of these females pretending to be super heroes but you gone and reminded me about them! Now, I was reminded of just how crap they were or their story were. However, your breakdown of their flaws and the crappiness of their stories was marvellous! Remembered why I was subscribed to your channel. 👍

[@RazuX5]

To be honest I’m just tired of the same narrative on bashing male characters for the sake of comedy to their female counterparts or making the male characters look bad on purpose to elevate the female characters or worse be labeled whenever criticizing them because it’s somehow “misogynistic” etc. It’s also not a good message for children since it teaches them that this stuff is ok and that they should downplay themselves if they are boys.

[@Crest28]

ironH is the perfect example of a copy n paste hero. They saw how popular ironman is and thought they could make a female ironman that would instantly lead to success

[@AzraelBloodstorm]

The thing is, many of the characters and event mentioned did occur in the comics years prior to them happening in the MCU. From Jane Foster becoming Thor to Wanda magicing her kids up, the only difference is that the comics did those characters and stories waaaaaaaaaay better. And this is before all the "me too" movement and stuff like that, female heroes were always portrayed way better and more complex in the comics... it's just a shame the MCU writers never bothered to read any of those comics.

[@DavisPetersen-k7u]

Also nearly all of them outperform their male counterparts, and seem to have ridiculously powerful abilities. They seem to almost always be in the right, and have close to no character flaws. Just some things I have noticed

[@craigshepherd2928]

Back in the 70's writers knew how to portray female heroes. There was Wonder Woman, especially in seasons 2 and 3, who was powerful but also showed empathy and respect towards people. There was the Bionic Woman who used her strength when she had to and not because she wanted to. Ripley in Alien became a reluctant hero due to the situations she found herself in. There are other examples such as Sarah Connor, Alice, Princess Leia, Princess Amidala, Elektra, Cat Woman and Supergirl. Each heroes in their own right, well written characters before the DEI nonsense took over.

[@mosaton]

Spider-Gwen is a well developed hero. I like her character arc. She starts the 2nd movie with drums and breaking up the band. She has a problem and says "I can't fix this". She resolves her daddy issues in a heart warming way. She ends the movie with drums and making a new band. It wasn't about her identity, it was about her struggle. Fantastic character.

[@CannibalKiddo]

Kate Bishop gets overlooked but her origin story on Hawkeye was actually pretty good

[@mphoramathe1801]

Devalue a cause by using cheap spiteful tokenism and compound the damage by hiring the popular kids who mocked comic books, scifi and fantasy writing until the genres became popular, and only see a cause as a means of self gratification

[@mr.mcnerdo]

Female heroes need to be written as good people, and the problem is there aren't many writers for Disney and other studios high up enough that understand this. Seriously, how did we go from Ebony Brown to Carol Danvers?

[@53kenner]

I tend to find Pepper Potts to be the best female character in the MCU. Smart, capable, has integrity.

[@chasehedges6775]

Gamora and Nebula and Mantis as well are also well done.

[@LTJfan]

Less politics, more good written stories

[@CollaredConsulting]

That means less Hollywood. Independent production is future

[@SUREILLBYTE]

Compare the women in modern Disney projects to the women in Arcane. It's night and day. Seriously, the writing is so good in Arcane I didn't even notice that the majority of the cast/screen time is with women. Not because I'm someone who takes note of the female head count of a project, rather these modern projects make it such a big deal that a character is a woman that it's hard not to notice.

[@deewatt]

Aliens, Underworld, Sarah Conner, Princess Leia, well written movies, bad azz women.

[@DavidJ-v5n]

yep but they ruined terminator franchise at the end. my opinion , terminator should ended after the 3rd part itself, the villaineess was sexy and hot

[@thegamingprozone1941]

Man underworlds underrated

[@averagejoe1977-jkl]

Excellent video essay. You are on e of the best in the business. Keep it up. Just wanted to throw in on observation. I’m a military vet, a man and have great meteorites of female heroines. Princess Leia, Sarah Conner, and my favorite Ripley. Ridley’s character in Aliens is particularly well written. Here is a combat naive woman juxtaposed next to a mainly male cast of burly marines. One marine teaches her how to use a rifle. When the marines find Newt they see her as a liability. Ripley’s motherly instinct kicks in though and she is able to see that Newt survived with the xenomorphs crawling all over the place. Newt teaches her how she survived and this helps Ripley and the rest survive. This is how a feminine but strong character is written. She’s not necessarily competing against the marines in their sphere but uses those admirable female characteristics to save her and the crew.

[@Mojaveknight17]

Super girl started it all

[@chinonsomichael9839]

Supergirl was awesome, she wasn't trying to belittle superman or that she's better like she hulk and ironheart

[@TheNightman.]

No, GB2016 started this shit

[@Mojaveknight17]

@TheNightman. Super girl failed so bad that made Hollywood think: super heroines movies aren't worth the effort. Gb2016 didn't have effort

[@ravens-crypt]

@@chinonsomichael9839 well it got cringe towards the end of the show supergirl run in my view . Even the interviews were like that to the point I thought I was watching I cringe bridal shower masquerading as an interview maybe someone else loved that and that’s fine but don’t get your knickers or boxes in the twist when that puts someone else off the project or product . Like seriously the easiest interviews and seasons had substance to them that was interesting to watch for me but it wasn’t there for me going forward. I still think that the actor who played lena Luther was great in her role in the show just the quality overall went down the drain for me. I don’t have an opinion on the film version of super girl as I haven’t seen enough clips of that Version to make a balanced judgement because the film she appeared in didn’t appeal to me .

[@joebrenner6245]

I'd say The CW, specifically, are the real villains here. They took the opportunity to create a comically accurate and memorable DC Multiverse that DC fans wanted and that normies could enjoy and turned it into an atrocious carnival bad writing, bad production and bad acting. All for the main purpose of promoting their own personal woke agenda. That's was clearly the only thing that they really cared about.

[@johncaldwell4709]

Its the DEI HORSE SHITE that has murdered our comics, our books, our films everything 😢

[@antwonsmith8931]

I blame the writers

[@captainjumptoast]

Great work on this video. A well thought out essay with points backed by examples and excellent insight. I like Spiderman because he has tremendous struggles and hardships and despite it all chooses to sacrifice of himself to help those around him. I hadn't really compiled in my brain how many of these modern versions of these characters just simply throw morality and self sacrifice out the window.

[@seanisabel]

It's the people writing them. Self inserts and activist writers are killing IPs and genres.

[@StarWarriorCentral]

Carol spent The Marvels saying "Don't call me 'The Annihilator'" as if she wasn't responsible for LITERAL GENOCIDE! They weren't bullying you, Danvers! They LITERALLY suffered for DECADES because you caused PLANETARY DISASTER! And for what? Because you finally felt empowered? Grow up.

[@ekahnoman7331]

Don't ask questions. That's problematic. Just consume product.

[@zulkifli4201]

Ewh... no thanks 🤮 I'm against Consumerism

[@ekahnoman7331]

@zulkifli4201 It's a joke ... Also, you didn't get the reference.

[@abhikmoj5853]

​@@ekahnoman7331 critical drinker?

[@ekahnoman7331]

@@abhikmoj5853 Red Letter Media But the video clip and line have become a meme, so Critical Drinker has used it.

[@BroWitGlasses8008]

Its always nice hearing other females speak up about these issues. Because Hollywood would have you believe all women think in the same bubble.

[@clarenceandgennymcneil251]

Agreed

[@Profess84]

Disney is trying so hard to be inclusive, they are excluding others, I am not even seeing some of my favorite characters like Blue Marvel, Brother Voodoo, Blade, T'Challa, and Monica Rambeu. Why can't we see Blue Marvel and Monica Rambeu show. They elevate the female by ignoring the male characters, in the shows and movies.

[@aranadelabismo]

Blue Marvel would make Carol Danvers look bad I'm pretty sure that's one reason why he hasn't the big screen

[@marcelgardner8497]

the first captain marvel movie A military woman facing adversity in the attempts to become pilot. Shows that she is indeed qualified for the position and gets chosen to be part of a space air force project that unfortunately goes not good. Wakes up on an alien planet with newly developed powers and a foggy memory of who she once was. That's a movie or 1st season within itself. But it's done all in a montage for a couple of minutes. Such wasted potential

[@AppleFrogTomatoFace]

Female lead movie somehow needed to be directed by activist female director. I feel that is the main reason. If you are activist director, i think you are more suited to direct a documentary or mockumentary. Anyway they have more of an agenda driven movie than purely story focused movies. If you want good female protagonist superhero movie? Just give it to a well know action movie director and let that person make a good movie, and just make the protagonist be female that would go much better. I guess they can’t let a male director direct female and that would defeat their purpose…

[@homeygfunkoffacherryfruitl4971]

Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley will always be two of the most badass action heroes of all time. Not because they’re stoic killing machines but because they were just normal, terrified women who had to step up and face their fears in extraordinary situations.

[@CSIGrissom]

Example: Black Widow earned her hero status righteously throughout multiple movies Captain Marvel was shoehorned in right at the End of an almost perfect Marvel phase 1, 2, and 3 as “the most powerful character” and didn’t earn it

[@jrob8891]

Karlie Morgenthau in the Falcon show is the best example I can think of of meta responsibility laundering. Objectively evil in the show, John Walker is OBJECTIVELY justified in his rage and nobody should blame him for killing the one baddy. However, he's an angry white man so he's bad, Karlie is a diverse woman so she's secretly good and misunderstood, ignore what they actually wrote, that's the truth that you should FEEL

[@Kalamain]

The older Hong Kong martial arts films had better female characters than we see now. The bigger problem is that some of the characters we see in the MCU now are based on half decent comic characters! She-Hulk in the comics actually has a good story, so do many of the other females. (not all though) I **kinda** disagree with you on Wanda. She did/does what she is doing because her mind broke. She, herself is not evil, her broken mind is what is driving everything along. The fact that she can do all these things is just feeding it. I don't like the story, but I kinda understand it.

[@HBCOU]

Chicks don't go through the heroes journey of being torn down building yourself back up then sacrificing for others so it's unbelievable even on the big screen

[@mangahell8177]

I would also blame popularity off OP characters and "grey character" since it seems many writters are trying to go down this route not realising if they aren't handled well they become horrible character tropes

[@chriscasey7113]

Aloy from the Horizon Zero Dawn series does a female hero well. She is a hero, but the fact that she is female is just not important. It is her character, and the story of the challenges she faces that make her a hero.

[@Uncle_Neil]

I don't think the studios or the writers they hire understand what the audience would like to see. Like General Motors they insist on making products they want to sell, not creating stories that people want to experience and care about. I have never cared about Superhero movies . The whole "super powers" mechanism in stories (or film) was always a thematic crutch to lean on when ideas finally died off. In classical story telling the "heroic" characters died, often as an exponent of suffering. Now, the only one suffering is the audience that has to pay for this slop. I do not think this is even a gender based thing anymore, all superheroes sort of suck now.

[@Apocalypse754]

Im so glad i came across to this video. I really hope this blows up

[@sungod9797]

I agree, but this video was put out around 2 years too late to be considered controversial or groundbreaking at this point lol

[@elithelonewolf2677]

Speaking for natives we don't claim echo...she sucks

[@RextheRebel]

Comic book characters are best in animated form. This is doubly true for female superheroes.

[@indiajohnson]

Took the words right out of my mouth 👍🏾

[@nasarys3085]

I can't stand what the MCU did for the Wasp, she was my fav character of the EMH cartoon

[@AlternativPerspectiv]

It's hard to see heroism in people who haven't laid down their lives to protect the nation. It just feels like stolen valour.

[@dwightnorton3398]

creators are losing their creativity in the fictional universe

[@citycrusher9308]

nope. The fem ladies simply h8 us guys and are ruining the franchises. That's all

[@andrewberna4045]

“I’m better than you!” Why? Because WOMAAANNNNNNNN

[@thewesthead902]

I think WandaVision was pretty good. How she breaks down and "wakes up" in a fantasy world to escape reality after losing her loved one, forcing herself to forget reality. The finale was a bit rushed imo, but i still understand her reaction. She didn't seem to understand that the people of Westview were in pain, and even while told that they were, she brushed it off (i'd probably do the same after something so traumatic). Until the end, when Agatha makes her see what's actually happening - and she practically instantly lets them go. Even giving up entirely on this fantasy world because it's the "right thing to do." WandaVision didn't ruin Wanda, Multiverse Of Madness did. And even then, the real enemy isn't "her", it's the Darkhold itself. A lot of people seem to forget that her actions are actions she'd never do if it weren't for the Darkhold. 10/10 would always pick any Wanda related media over Riri/Shuri/Jane/She-Hulk related media

[@John-fk2ky]

I’m sorry, but that is absolutely HORRIBLE storytelling. Take a step back and look at it from a writing standpoint. You have a supposed hero enslave an entire town (it seems semi-intentionally; the only surprise to Wanda seemed to be that it hurt them) and another character has the gall to say she sacrificed something by stopping that action? Not the best dialogue choice. Wanda having issues and not wanting to deal with reality isn’t a problem. What the writers have her do is. Multiverse of Madness is even worse. You have a character casually murder quite a few people (with one scene frankly being so stupidly written that I question how the film was helmed by the same guy that made my favorite Spiderman movies), and the writers want to excuse it all away with an artifact we have never even heard of before now? I’m sorry, but no. That’s insulting to the character and the audience. There were so many different ways for Wanda to do things that might have shown her going in the wrong direction without actually stepping into villain territory, and the writers chose none of them. Or if you want to have her act like a villain, embrace it. Have her now be a villain, not try to fix her at the end (or if you do, have her die in the attempt).

[@thewesthead902]

@John-fk2ky "an artifact we have never even heard of before" oh okay so you didn't watch the show, got it. Maybe form your own opinion next time.

[@No-Hassle]

It’s a shame. Most of these characters have decades worth or stories that don’t need to be changed that much.

[@clarenceandgennymcneil251]

True.

[@andrebighach]

revenge is a good thing. it's annoying that everyones is so against bullied people getting even..

[@abimifoluwamark5566]

Revenge is good but it's never always the answer

[@abimifoluwamark5566]

She doesn't hate revenge thought . She said she loves revenge stories

[@andrebighach]

@@abimifoluwamark5566 when you say "the answer" it doesn't work if the people abusing you is the entire rest of the world, you will always lose badly, but it is still the answer.

[@andrebighach]

@@abimifoluwamark5566 it doesn't matter what she says, she's complaining that someone fights back. you always do this to losers. if everyone abuses someone, they always lose when they fight back, so you get like this and complain about the endless complaining that is a result of the endless abuse. you don't like justice you like winners. crime doesn't pay, so you hate criminals, but normal abuse does, then revenge isn't the answer.

[@abimifoluwamark5566]

@@andrebighach I do like justice and yes revenge to me isn't always the answer because it's just starts an endless cycle of violence

[@BW022]

What is scary is how the actors, writers, directors, test audiences, reviewers, and the millions of people who defend these films/shows don't seem to have a problem with the immorality of these characters.

[@clarenceandgennymcneil251]

Eesh

[@DrInsane44]

OMG thank you for this video. I've been doom scrolling the internet for days, and finally a voice of reason. I'm tired of people praising Wonder Woman, Mighty Thor, and She-Hulk. Was starting to think people just have no idea what a story is. I feel like I need to stand on a corner and just start throwing books at people. Thank you so much!