Feminism vs. Womanism - A Revaluation of All Values

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

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[@jirehla-ab1671]

Would you agree that the 1st and 2nd feminism movements see males as eye to eye and are necessarily in this society?

[@j.robertson9025]

Honestly, this has always been my biggest gripe with feminism, even as someone who considers herself a feminist. We're made to believe that male behaviors and male interests are inherently superior by virtue of being preferred by men. We're encouraged to have casual (and often pleasureless) hook-ups with strangers because "that's what men do." We're encouraged to mindlessly pursue a career at the expense of everything else because "that's what men do." Every female college student is pushed towards STEM majors no matter what her actual interests and aptitudes simply because "that's what men do." Every "strong female character" in the media is an arrogant, ass-kicking badass whose strength is defined solely by physical prowess because "that's what men do." So much modern feminism worships men, emulates them in every possible way, does everything they can to beat them at their own game without questioning why we let them pick the goddamn game in the first place. I mean, maybe not everything men do is worth doing. Maybe the goal of feminism should be liberation, not emulation. Maybe it's enough to liberate women from total dependency upon men without trying to erase everything that distinguishes us from men. Maybe, so long as we have equal standing before the law and are free to pursue the lives we want, we don't need to prove anything to anyone.

[@joesouthborn2960]

... and the funny thing is, outside of the West, your assessment is obviously clear to those interested in the topic. There is little logical gain in reducing women to surrogate men to serve capitalist ends. Sometimes we cannot see what is right in front of us. Or we don't want to. The power of ubiquity.

[@GGWP-nx3kn]

This is because women have never been "shackled" or "oppressed". Womanism is just another tool of capitalistic endeavours. Notice how a tiny few profits whereas the masses are all divorcing left and right? Exactly.

[@gavinoneill6115]

There's also another crucial element. At one point before we became so secure and safe in the modern world. There was actually a legitimate reliance on men for survival through child birth. And both sexes had to make enormous sacrifices in order to ensure its survival. There is actually a real beauty in that but also as a consequence manifested a hierarchical structure where one sex became far more dominant over the other. Which has taken thousands of years to untangle. The main element that has relinquished that is we are at far less threat from our environment or other invading tribes or empires, which has allowed us the freedom to question and ultimately dispense with such elements of a hierarchy that no longer serves our best interests or is nessecary. We have come along way in that sense and long may it continue. But there is a wider context to why those inequalities were formed. And both sexes suffered greatly for them in different ways, without the freedoms, hardships and safety we enjoy today.

[@joesouthborn2960]

@@gavinoneill6115 the last 10p years have been simply revolutionary at redefining this relationship between male and female... but let's not pretend development is equally spread throughout the world. This is the fundamental flaw many modern ideologies of the west highlight - being out of touch with the global reality. Something which seems to bring with it dangerous consequences.

[@pythonjava6228]

Sure but i think its a nuanced thing because some (though obviously not all) of the things that men typically do would be rewarding for women both as individuals and as a class but many women wont do them due to stereotypes, double standards and outright discrimination. So i think there should be a balance between providing support to women on that front _without_ creating a situation where men are perpetually held as the standard for female behaviour.

[@manifestgtr]

I first encountered these concepts back in my mid 20s. My girlfriend had forgotten something important at work, showed up to get it 5 minutes after they closed and everyone was gone. In a moment of all-encompassing frustration, she blurted out “I wish the women’s movement never happened…I hate this, I hate that”. I didn’t take the words *literally* because moments of frustration can make you say things you don’t really mean…but it left an impression on me. Is society really doing women a favor by saying “the male model is the only path to respect and fulfillment”? We’re really forcing ourselves into a lot of unnatural positions…decades spent at a desk under fluorescent lighting, eating foods made in laboratories, staring at screens for hours on end and treating physical activity as though it were a chore. No wonder self-reported happiness just keeps falling off a cliff. Feminism, as we know it, is only a small piece of the puzzle when you zoom out and look at the bigger picture.

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@gothicgirlfriend7375]

❤ i hate the way the world is too. 😢

[@jirehla-ab1671]

Would you agree that the 1st and 2nd feminism movements see males as eye to eye and are necessarily in this society?

[@manifestgtr]

@@jirehla-ab1671 I think the first through third waves of feminism all had legs. The third wave had a lot to do with labor and was the first that started to acknowledge anyone who wasn’t a middle class, white, suburbanite chick. It’s the fourth wave that’s been a problem because (like a lot of internet phenomena) the dumbest, least rational voices rose to the top sometime around 2014, started in *hard* on men and now they wonder why there’s an epidemic of lonely, worthless-feeling dudes. It’s like, really? We don’t see that pattern?

[@Jayare175]

​@@jirehla-ab1671 no lol. feminism in all forms is a supremacy movement.

[@nattteo]

Wow, this was honestly eye opening, like I've seen people try to express this before, but I often tune out because people often ascribe "negative" meaning to masculine traits and "positive" meaning to feminine traits when they try to explain this dichotomy, but your idea of balance here and the idea that masculine traits have basically overwhelmed society really resonates with me. I guess it's just easier to accept ideas when they aren't framed as hostile "us vs. them" way.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

What a delight to hear Nathaniel! That's exactly what I'm aspiring to do - get past animosity mode and into curiosity mode

[@zoe.h.nelson04]

This is such a breath of fresh air! I've been sensing some morsel of truth in reactionaries' claims that modern feminism isn't really acting in women's interests, but not with the idea that the 50's represents a more ideal time. On a personal level, I definitely found growing up that my masculine traits were much more praised than my feminine traits, and much less degraded. You've given me some words to work with to explain what I've trying to articulate for ages, and I'll definitely look into some of those authors to expand my understanding.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Wow Zoe that's music to my ears I'm delighted to have helped anyone find something that makes their world make more sense so thank you!

[@scotts4492]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy brilliant

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@jacob_massengale]

I think being hundreds of millions of totally compliant worker drones for 10 hours a day is plenty degradation of masculine traits.

[@Saber23]

No it isn’t it’s all regurgitated and DESTRUCTIVE nonsense

[@CosyKodama]

I definitely agree. "Women Who Run With the Wolves" and "If Women Rose Rooted" are just two really good books that discuss this subject!

[@electricfishfan]

I found the first book you mentioned in a take one leave one library! Looking forward to reading it.

[@jirehla-ab1671]

Would you agree that the 1st and 2nd feminism movements see males as eye to eye and are necessarily in this society?

[@CosyKodama]

@@electricfishfan ooo lovely! if you struggle with it try to be patient, it took me a couple tries before i managed to get past the first couple chapters (could also have something to do with the undiagnosed adhd at the time ahaha) it's not necessarily a "hard" read but it is quite lengthy, and one of those books that is best to give your whole attention to when you can!

[@user-hl1ct3yh1r]

This is what I’ve been searching for!! I made the mistake of applying male oriented advice on myself as a woman. I laugh looking back now.

[@acca1170]

This is actually the second time I come across this topic and it does interest me. The first time was an article of a woman from North Africa who had moved to Western Europe. She expressed how she missed a certain sisterhood between women in the West that was much more expressed in her culture. It essentially came down to the same idea that masculinity was extremely overvalued in the West for both women and men. While in her country masculinity was also ruling the land it was solely the men being allowed to express masculinity and the women were excluded so femininity was the only choice. But for her as a member of that feminine environment she enjoyed the support and closeness from that even when she saw the flaws society-wise from masculinity being solely for men and femininity solely for women there. I think its an incredibly complicated topic but it is just plainly visible that modern society has an extreme bias towards masculinity. Just look at China banning depictions of feminine men in their media in 2021, the constant strive for masculinity as an ideal exists everywhere. I do think that influences both men and women very negatively and that it would be the same if for example a society enforced solely femininity for success.

[@r3fus32d13]

One thing that marks my memory is someone critiquing the modern waves of feminism. He said that women are the one subgroup in society that suffers the most in our modern interconnected world, how the disintegration of community and family has hit women the hardest in society. If you take a quick look, young women today have the highest rates of anxiety and depression outside of transgenders. Really makes you think if these systems we are pushing are actually good for our long term society. Empathy has been weaponized everywhere I look, men are afraid to discipline their own children and we handle women issues with kids gloves all the time. It seems like we are shifting away from reality and into a world of feelings. good day

[@lambert801]

I think the emphasis on masculinity has actually decreased for men, and not just in the West. Men are generally not expected to be as masculine anymore. On the other hand, feminism expects women to be more masculine. Women have become more masculine, men have become more feminine.

[@redacted461]

In countries like china banning feminine men from tv has nothing to do with hating femininity. In socially conservative countries femininity is very much valued and women are encouraged to show their femininity where as men are encouraged to act like men. It has nothing to do with your western centric views of femininity vs masculinity and more to do with traditionalism.

[@Katya_Lastochka]

China's not banning feminine men because it wants only masculine men, it's banning propaganda that shames masculinity and promotes feminine men as the ideal.

[@EXO-L45]

@@lambert801 you're absolutely right. Men are sometimes encouraged to ditch their masculinity and be feminine.

[@alexanderdenheijer565]

Anne Baring’s book ‘The dream of the cosmos; a quest for the soul’ is highly recommended for the revaluation of the feminine archetype. Anne Baring is a Jungian analist who spent 20 years writing her magnus opum.

[@alexanderdenheijer565]

*magnum opus

[@Zacharoni4085]

magnum op

[@JKbelle1]

Thank you for this recommendation!

[@diamonddestiny704]

This is such a deep and well-thought out presentation. I think as a woman in this day and age, I always find myself dreading this narrative of femininity vs masculinity and how societies are crumbling because women wanted their rights to a dignified life while at the same time hating the insistence that feminine traits are what holding women back and are only suitable for household matters.

[@TheArcturusProject]

Thank you! I’ve been trying to explain this to my brother just the other day. The word feminism doesn’t correlate to the fake definition of equality. And the movement simply embraced and FORCED masculinity on women and society as a whole, completely erasing all value placed on women and femininity.

[@misao7746]

Im a hardcore feminist studier. I noticed that the risk taking I did was important, but that it was based on masculinity. The book called Female Choice I think thaught me that we live in a world that rewards masculine values, and thus social update cant come about without assimilation or a reform.. well or I said that. Thats where and when I realized that. But I still want to do risky things, risk taking is important, or lifes boring.

[@dylanbuckle114]

Absolutely brilliant. You’ve articulated something I sensed but not been able to put into words. Your channel is outstanding.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Dylan! That's great to hear! Interesting to see people commenting saying something similar. I guess there is this sense of something like this being off in the culture so it's great to hear that other people have been seeing something similar

[@hello3251]

This was a really interesting perspective, thanks for this.One thing I’d like to mention is the fact that there is already a womanist movement (spearheaded by women of colour such as Alice walker) that tries to diverge from mainstream/contemporary feminism and is more aligned with the aims ideas of “true feminism” as discussed in the video. I was wondering how this may fit into the themes discussed in this video?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Ah fascinating I did not know about that. And now it seems that this muddies the terminology an awful lot 🙈 Sounds like a really interesting school of thought though and I'll definitely be reading more about it!

[@lindelwampilwenhledlamini6348]

You'd benefit reading Karen Horney. I understood womanism better on a psychoanalytical level

[@hello3251]

@@lindelwampilwenhledlamini6348 thanks for the suggestion :)!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@lindelwampilwenhledlamini6348 Thanks for the recommendation she's definitely someone on my radar. I suppose you could say that I'm moving toward studying her

[@BlueSkyLtd.]

@@lindelwampilwenhledlamini6348 Absolutely agree about Karen Horney!

[@kakyoin3836]

This video changed my mind about feminism completely. Thank you so much. Wonderfully done.

[@Orimthekeyacolite]

In a way, this feels like a self-defeating argument. If you define masculinity by it's assertiveness, competitive nature and dominance, then you can hardly complain that people representing those qualities assert, outcompete and dominate. And vice versa, if femininity is yielding, then it will naturally occupy the space that's left. I recognize that as someone who literally teaches self-improvement through the Ying-Yang philosophy for a living (as a TaiChi instructor), my pov might be a bit scewed. But also, being a very libertarian-minded person, I just don't have much trust in those grand societal-scale restructuring of values projects to begin with, especially for issues that are inherently deeply personal. I think the answer is much more in helping individual people to actualize and balance the feminine and masculine qualities within themselves

[@markuskosmo]

Even though I'm a heterosexual man, I identify more with the feminine values than the masculine ones. A balance is probably best, at least on a societal level, which means that feminine values have to be appreciated more! I'm for difference feminism, and I think it's sad that equality feminism has overshadowed those feminine values. It's not that women exclusively have them, as there are other men like me, but that those human values are overlooked and underappreciated by society!

[@Nat-xc4hg]

I love this analysis, I feel like you put into words a perception I've had of most feminism for a long time. It became about individuals obtaining power in a patriarchal system than about revindicating feminine ideals and values. I appreciate you rchannel a lot, thank you for what you do!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Nat!

[@mostawesomedudeever1]

You're incorrect, what's going on is an inversion of the masculine and feminine. Inverting men to become women and men to become women. In line with baphomet, and Loki, the trickster.

[@pythonjava6228]

Theres been quite a bit of feminist analysis on that. The idea of creating a world for women as imagined by women and not as imagined by men. As such there is a criticism of womens heterorelational ties with men. Under such ties women gain value either by having heteros3xual relationships with men (as evidenced by the pervasive need to ask women about their marital status) or by adopting male value systems. But if womens liberation was based on a homorelational standpoint then that would make room for more imagination and creativity of what the world could look like for women.

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@AC-mp7cx]

patriarchy is good

[@ditto303]

👏 I think the choice of Elizabeth Holmes‘s picture as the cover for this video was perfect. She and women like her were hailed for acting like men and somehow that was interpreted as an advancement for women. Holmes tried acting like a man so hard she even tried to change her voice. Women are only seen as „cool“ or „valuable“ when they act like men. Granted, there are people who criticise women for „being masculine“ but at the end of the day, female traits are still seen as something nice, but largely irrelevant.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Yeah that's exactly what I was going for Ditto. She's the perfect representation of this slight warping that has gone on around the feminine

[@motownmoneygang]

great points you make. feminine energy is so important. I move around in the world of acedemia and (artistic) design, and it frustrates me to see how people use (fabricated) empathy as a tool to make them or their organisations look good. People go on stages to talk about climate change and unequalty, summing up problems to a crowd that is very familliar with them, without really looking for the root of the problem or suggesting solutions, talking bout the end is near and stuff, only to be applauded by people that were already in agreement. All of them never really doing anything meaningful but feeling morally superior because of their 'awareness'. Even though they seem to be fully unconsious about their underlying motivation for social status. Most of them advocate against children because they see overpopulation as a root problem, unwilling to discuss aging demographics and falling birthrate. They name overconsumption but never look for the cause, the void we try to fill with materialism... a lust for materialism they either still chase, or have exchanged for the lust for applause. Somehow I feel like it ties in to that inbalence of feminine and masculine you were talking about. No love for children, (fake) empathy as a tool for oppression. Like a masculine energy is manipulating the feminine empathics to submit. Excuse my rant.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Rant excused - that was awesome. You hit on so many key points in quick succession. Brilliant and very on point. There's a deeper levele of psychology that needs to be applied to these seemingly unpsychological problems. We know what we have to do but are not doing it. The answer isn't more preaching to the choir but a determined effort to understand the psychological reasons why this is the case.

[@motownmoneygang]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy agreed, and also I think we should, as a global community, put more focus on hard sciences and engineering, and less on giving speeches and echo-chamber like podcasts (there are probably more/better examples for not so useful carreer paths, or oversaturated) when it's about climate change, many people seem to argue it's merely political and changing our consumption behavior. I currently have a (theoretical) assignment for making a company climate neutral and I'm getting a chance to really look at it, its quite a complex thing to solve.... we're gonna need all the brain power we can get. Ps. I sincerely do believe you should keep focus on giving speeches/podcasts (and maybe lectures?) because you really seem made for it :) I learn a lot from your videos. Sometimes I forget that you don't have a million subs yet! feel privileged to get to talk you in the comments

[@motownmoneygang]

Didn't really get into it but I really resonate with your reply of applieing a deeper level of psychology. In my design school I have more than once argued for mandatory philosophy class for all designers. We will decide what to make and what not to make, and need, imo, to have at least questioned our moral stands and perspective on things.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

​@@motownmoneygangthanks a million Mo! And you're just after sparking something in my mind there: Ancient Athens really fell apart once the democracy became all about influence and speaking well rather than being good and doing good. So you could probably map out the stages of decline in democracy based off of that parallel process which is very interesting. Also for your project have you ever heard of a podcast called Planet Critical. One of my best friends runs it and I have to say it's one of the best things out there on the climate crisis she has amazing thinkers on there. There's a few people on there woo would really help with writing something like that (Steve Keen and Simon Michaux are two episodes in particular that stand out for me as relevant). Anyway thanks again for the kind words and support!

[@motownmoneygang]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy Hey, that's interesting! gives me a question to ponder: How can I design products that contribute toward a higher validation of true merit in this society? currently, I can only think of some sort of change in social media, where rewards come not from number of likes or followers, but valuable contributions to society. This sounds an awful lot like social credit scores... Will we be able to save our society from falling apart like Athens did, you think? Maybe it should, without bloodshed, destuction or loss of knoledge, fall apart, so that there's room for a new society, building with all we have learned. Maybe The Living Philosophy will be the movement that shifts the paradigm... thanks for the Podcast recommendation, I will give them a listen! :)

[@benjaminevano8021]

I've watched your video about Metamodernism recently and I thought your intro was very metamodern. Your message could cringe a lot of people (yes, a male can talk about feminity) but you deliver that message with irony, which makes it receivable by anyone. Well done.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Benjamin just seeing this now and I appreciate it

[@jordank5328]

I do find it interesting that modern feminism seems to boil down to rejecting that which is the unique domain of woman: bearing children. Not that this should be the end all be all, in the same way a man is not only valued as a sperm donor, but to devalue this phenomena seems to be devaluing one of the unique and special aspects of women.

[@lazar2949]

Yeap. And its similar case with all feminine traits. Instead for women empowerment to mean celebrating and proudly presenting all special domains of a women and their traits, they are making it seem like its about rejecting everything remotely women-like.

[@Qff_story_teller]

so my question is ..... what should we do as a women, stay home ,go out ,or balance .

[@markaurelius61]

As I see it, the masculine builds structures and systems, the feminine builds interpersonal networks. That accords with the list distinguishing masculine v traits that the OP showed from 3:15. As western culture has become more technologically based - transport, communication, city admin, long range trading etc etc - the emphasis on systems will necessarily take more of our time and attention. Feminism started up in earnest as the industrial revolution was getting underway, mid 19th century, when women probably started to feel that they were being excluded to some extent from the world that was being formed, and have ended up with both hatred of the system, and a sense that they should be an equal sharer in it. Women have all the rights now to participate in the modern economies and work places, and still feel somehow excluded by an invisible "patriarchy", probably simply because men feel naturally more at home in a productive corporate environment. The solution is not clear, but more emphasis on the interpersonal, and respect for the healthy aspect of feminine values would seem to be in order.

[@courtneydolly6538]

Wow, this is really brilliant. Thanks so much for sharing and putting so much thought into this issue. Beautiful analysis. Perhaps one thing which might be improved in the future in terms of elevating the feminine would be motherhood because having a baby is more work than a full time job, and of course it's the most wonderful thing in the world, but society doesn't emphasize the importance of this role in terms of treating it with as much respect as a career.

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@jirehla-ab1671]

Would you agree that the 1st and 2nd feminism movements see males as eye to eye and are necessarily in this society?

[@chunder393]

I think in the past motherhood got more respect.

[@chrystianaw8256]

​@@chunder393not really

[@Equilibrium47]

Extremely happy that you made this video. Always happy to learn and understand more on topics in which I am uninformed. Another great video, friend!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Equilibrium!

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@Mon000]

The paradox of the rise of depression is soo interesting to me, really looking forward to us understanding it fully. Go go go algooo go!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Hahaha don't think it's gonna go just yet but someday I suspect this one will catch fire. The bit around depression especially with Seligman's bit and what I consider the update of it with Jonathan Haidt's bit about self-harm and suicide in The Social Dilemma presents a really interesting set of questions and one I think we need to pay a lot of attention to. I think it's something I'll be returning to in future but here it just came up along the way I guess

[@007arek]

For sure the lack of beliefs correlates with higher depression. I think the Marx's alienation and the social roles crisis have also impact on that.

[@ymutua]

the term womanism has already been used by a certain group of black american women starting in the 1970s. Alice Walker writes about it.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Indeed! I was unaware of it when making this video but in the reaction video (the Why it Matters: Feminism vs Womanism) I talk about this a bit. Unfortunately confusing terminology

[@jonjuul4276]

very thought provoking. I never through of masculinity and femininity in the bigger picture of value systems. thank you!

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@khanmichalson6915]

Since I started watching videos on YT this is the most informative I've ever watched on an issue I never respected... it's actually sad that one lense through which life is viewed by humanity is practically dead...

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Khan! Yeah it's definitely on the backfoot but I guess that's often the trigger for a turnaround. By its being so far on the back foot surely that prompts the crisis which reveals its true value and so forces a revaluation. That's the optimistic view anyway. The pendulum only goes so far before the gravity of its antipode pulls it back

[@khanmichalson6915]

I don't care about the swing of the pendulum.... you have already changed mu perspective forever... now I know feminism is an intricate part of human perception of life and I will never belittle its contributions again... now can we get a video on how u think fenism should be integrated and what changes the society needs to undertake to ensure its successful revival n how that society would b different from ours

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@khanmichalson6915 thanks Khan that's a great sentiment for any creator to hear! As for how I think Feminism should be integrated and the changes that would be required I would be venturing far beyond my competence in doing that. I think I could try and I probably will but I think that those kind of changes require testing different things and a lot of creativity in coming up with different approaches to test. The murmurations of culture are beyond blueprinting but I guess what we do need are ideas that might move the needle in the direction we want and that's something I can probably play around with!

[@crzygrlfrmfl]

This has to be one of my favorite videos ever made

[@gillianomotoso328]

Separating masc and fem from male and female is intuitive when you realize the sexes are part of a binarized continuum. Thank you for this vid!

[@Mart-Bro]

Thought this for a long time. Great to hear someone put it into a video!

[@Katya_Lastochka]

I wouldn't say the Soviet Union was strictly patriarchal. Yes, it was industrial, but also had low poverty, free and accessible healthcare, lots of free or cheap leisure facilities, high art and education, and plenty vacations. I think it achieved a nice balance. It was very common to have a female boss in many industries, taking advantage of women's organization skills. There were also a lot of women engineers. Of course there was plenty of family leave as well. This was while women in the west were staying at home, or decades later burning their bras. If the latter Soviet leaders had listened to the banks and detained from printing money to pay the war debt, then there would have opened up even more high paying jobs suitable for women.

[@D4G13]

Really like this. And it’s not just hyperbolic hate or a devaluation of the historic struggle, but a proper re-evaluation

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

That's what I was going for! Quite a few mines to negotiate in getting here but that was certainly the hope

[@kylebowles9820]

I always thought it was missing the mark. Thanks for elegantly explaining that

[@jobbimaster]

This was well done. Thank you for sharing your understanding.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million jobbimaster!

[@Metaphix]

Just discovered this channel, really good stuff man.

[@cecilenaught]

I could be interpreting it wrong but for the graphs @2:11 , doesn't the data show that overall more individuals consider themselves to be feminine? Really great video! Looking forward to more :)

[@9000ck]

I am partial to the idea of masculine and feminine principles, but as a woman and doctor with a science degree I would be careful about extrapolating complex human behaviours and attitudes from sex hormones. A bit of estrogen does not make me incapable of mathematics or physics. It has barely been the blink of an eye, culturally speaking, where women have been able to study these subjects in high numbers and already they are beginning to make their mark on the field. Even subjects as 'dry' as mathematics are influenced by social and cultural conditions. Who feels able to make the comment to the professor about the previously neglected or unexpected connection/ solution or association? Who feels they will be cut down before the idea will be fully considered?

[@mahsieirvdj]

I agree here!

[@latinaustralia]

I'm not a student of philosophy so at the risk of being labelled an idiot, I'll say this. When I watched the movie Moana with my young niece. This was another girlboss, no need a man type of movie but the ending really spoke to me. The land was arid ave full of rage until Moana gives the heart and then the land becomes the beautiful mother earth, loving, giving, producing and healing. This took me back to my days with my Native American grandmother who had those beautiful qualities. In my view, the feminine is having the power to embrace the quality of the masculine by providing and nurturing support (never submitting). Feminism is about morphing into the power of the masculine while emancipating the inner parts of being female and emasculating the male. It's sad we got to this point...

[@Yggramuhl]

Awesome! You nail it, again. TL;DR: I agree, we really, really need this re-evaluation of our values. I've experienced this very dilemma myself, being a female human in a lower leadership position - and in one of the most masculine lines of all. When I was sent to the obligatory leadership seminars, there were very open minded teachers who knew exactly how female leadership can excel, or rather how female traits can make anyone a better leader. But outside of these seminars this wasn't applied. Leadership in general has different philosophies, as can probably also easily be found here on KZbin. E.g. there is the authoritarian way and, the exact opposite, laissez-faire. These are taught to be a range on which a leader can shift depending on the situation where leadership is applied. Shifting within this range is seen as a master skill in leadership that needs a lot of empathy on the leaders side. In my case the experience was this: If I did what was in my nature, which was to put trust in my people and work with them on a more team oriented basis, my superiors would not see me "lead" enough. They wanted to see me apply a tougher regiment, they wanted me to be more aggressive, take a more male approach. Because those were the people who judged me and thus held the future of my career and because I was raised a yielding and shy female, I naturally obliged. Every time I acted as I was told, I wasn't acting female, and thus I was wrong again. So being female me was wrong and acting more male was wrong. There was no chance to do right. Funnily this pile of bullshit helped me to free myself from a lot of concepts. Was a huge eye opener. But I do have to brake a lance for men here as well. Because even though our society runs on described male values, it isn't exactly always in favor of men, most men are just as trapped in this system. After all, the typical masculine role model says men are forbidden to show emotions, that's for girls only (except anger, aggressivness, thats for boys only, lol). Any human who has to suppress their emotions will in the long run turn to unhealthy and dangerous coping mechanisms, sometimes in a way dangerous for others. I stumbled across the book "Mama-Trauma" by psychologist Werner Dopfer. And even though I'm not sure about how true everything he wrote was, he has a point (also not entirely sure if I'm not mixing in other sources here, so apologies in advance): Since industrialization the way a family worked changed drastically. And even though in those beginnings the whole family was assimilated as workers, it changed to the point where women stayed at home and men were at work. Even beyond factory times, the white collars just as well were not at home. Nurseries, (after it became tolerated) teachers, supermarket clerks and the like were often jobs for women. When a boy grew up in those days, he mostly came into contact with women. Women, who often had little understanding for male traits - as they themselves were raised to obey the female model. The female role did nurture the female traits, but they weren't (and yes still aren't) valued. As the higher male temperament is often seen as bad especially by females, the boys were scolded for being boys. (Btw, there is an interesting correlation in how often boys get diagnosed with ADHD, at least in the USA. It's just easier for girls to keep calm and quiet.) A psychological experiment during the 60s found that suppressed people or societies often may relay on passive aggressiveness as their only form of rebellion. (Funnily this was found in the US military between male soldiers who didn't like their male superior.) Females as having little to no power in society often used and still use the same means. Passive aggressiveness though is a psychological poison, it can leave it's victims deeply wounded but without knowledge about how or why. It is an unclear an manipulative way of communication. If now a boy grows up and is surrounded by double-speaking females (to take it to the extreme), while his father is constantly at work and no other male role model is available, things are bound to go south. Those boys grow up to be man that hate women and value them and their ways as something lesser, evil even. These men are scared never learned to express themselves, never felt understood and their only way to avoid this kind of ongoing humiliation is to take revenge on women and to take their stand in the male value system by accumulating power. They need this to cope with their lacking, while all they would have needed would be someone to tell them "You are okay the way you are". But sadly, a lot of these are beyond help or don't even recognize how much they would need it. I guess in the particular line I worked in were a lot of these broken men. There is a general problem with how values are seen, are judged. Some traits are valued more or less then others. IMHO, they are not more or less, they are just different, and either the traits / skills of a person fit a job / situation, or not. Some may bring better results than other, some may just bring different results. Judging is a pretty subjective thing, but the way we judge is influenced by our surroundings, by our peers, and we do the same to others. We take over the ways of how a person is to be judged. Female traits were seen as something less valuable, thus even we females apply that way of judging. I guess society has changed it's way of life so far from what it's nature was and so rapidly, that we simply lack. When we still had our role models at home, we were influenced mainly by religion and the majority of people couldn't even read. Life was still hard enough that we had other other problems, as in these theories about facing crisis, where suddenly every other worry that drives us crazy on the usual day-to-day basis becomes irrelevant. Now, we all can read and could all think for ourselves, but we lack the very same clarity our ancestors had. In some way, at least, I guess. And of course not all humans. Depends on culture and live circumstances in general. But probably these industrialized countries, even now in the digital age, do suffer a lack of role models, as every way we judge our values comes from eras no longer related to ours, or lesser and lesser related. I like how you mentioned the shift since agriculture times. There wasn't "just" the shift in evaluation of values, but a physical one as well, that just didn't make it any better: Since food was suddenly more available, survival became easier and women became more often pregnant. Since a pregnant woman is definitely lacking in physical abilities, they had to be protected more. They moved differently and less and they got denied access to high protein food such as meat (since the males took over the part of the protectors and thus needed more protein, they were now the warriors). There are findings in skeleton density hinting at a shift in female nutrition whenever a culture turned to agriculture. This further weakened the female body and emphasized women as the weaker of the sexes. The perception of female traits as weaker was fueled by this. A bit like the battle between the feather and the sword: Of course, a word, written or not, can hold an immense power, most of the philosophies are simply words and thoughts that outlived their creators and inspired thousands. But as long as a writer only holds his feather, as long as his word isn't spread, which naturally takes longer, a sword can easily strike him down. When someone, with the intend to kill, holds a sword, they will kill, and it is unlikely a word will prevent it unless it is the exact right word. The swordsman trained all his live for the fight, the writer didn't. But is the feather thus weaker?

[@zeecaptain42]

I might actually never have heard this topic handled in a way that wasn't in it's foundation difference-feministic, arguing that we are forcing essentially separate sexes to be one. This actually handled the problem at hand! I always get too defensive myself, afraid that the listener will go away with such a faulty take-away. I always thought that new words for "feminine" and "masculine" that isn't in the universal vocabulary inseparable from sexes would be good.

[@eccothepixy8107]

I do find it funny how what is seen as feminine is very similar to right brain hemisphere processes, and the Greeks and Romans saw the left hand as feminine, it's also interesting how folks put connections between femininity and creativity

[@SonicDruid1]

Finally, someone is talking about this. The most important topic of our time. Thankyou!!

[@UFOhunter4711]

Or we just skip to the post individual and post value state, finally stepping beyond the ancient boundaries of the self and mind. No longer defining traits, no longer constantly any seeking expression. One day

[@generaljeneral7503]

You've put out many thoughts I've had succinctly. Earned yourself a subscriber. Thank you.

[@preetispurpose]

I appreciate your work to discuss your views on Feminisms. I just want to share a few thoughts to help expand thinking on this subject matter. I feel this video is based on a false premise that Feminism is one concept that any one person can simply define. More accurately it is called Feminisms - because the concept/movement is practiced in many different ways and is defined differently depending on the practitioner. For example the views on sex and gender within Feminisms is vastly different depending on the reality of any given Feminist. We can't boil down Feminism into one school of thought. Think of it like the study of any subject, there are many strands of thought connected to that one subject. Another point I would like to make is that Womanism is already a defined word with deeply important meaning, coined by Alice Walker. Womanism is a set of strands within the subject matter of Feminism that pointed out the silencing of Black Feminist thought within the mainstream, middle class, White Feminisms that were being practiced in the 80's. Saying "Feminism hasn't happened yet" is a flashy title that meets the needs of algorithms. But it is a false premise and diminishes the work done by Feminists throughout time. We've always been practicing Feminisms in it's many forms. We don't need to rebrand, we need to change our lack of understanding on this complex subject. What I hear in this video is a critique of the valuing of the concepts associated with masculinity and the devaluing of concepts associated with femininity. That would make for a clearer title and premise. Sorry if this lengthy comment offends anyone in any way, I truly come in peace and the belief that sharing knowledge collectively is power.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Great input thanks for sharing. There's a few things I'd change if I could make this video again and I do have intentions to change the title and thumbnail so your feedback is appreciated

[@yassinalsawas]

This has put into words many of ideas that were running on my mind. A masterpiece 👏🏻

[@christophergould8715]

I have often thought that our times are characterised by both over sensitivity on some things and lack of sensitivity on other things-sometimes complete insensitivity.

[@Rikapaprika]

I came to the same conclusion some time ago. Nothing describes out modern society better than that.

[@greciamendez7375]

Thank you so much for this video. As a woman from the third world who has always addressed machismo in my country but does feel that Feminism of the western world resonates with me. Thank you, you gave a path where to start searching.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Ah I'm delighted to hear it Grecia thank you!

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@abyzzwalker]

Amazing video, I never thought of this before. I agree that the word is way too unbalanced, and traits like empathy are often downplayed.

[@richardblondet]

Thank you so much for this video! So refreshing. Thought provoking indeed! I find fascinating the way you use the 4Q framework. I felt some sense and a feeling of relieve get into me as you reveal the problem that we have been facing as a society. This is a living truth.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Ah thank you very much Richard! That's great to hear

[@firstaid56]

Womanism was already a term coined and used by Dr. Clenora Hudson-Weems. It was used to distinguish the primarily white movements of feminism and to bring more emphasis on women of color. The term already exists so It’s a bit misleading to give it a new meaning when it already has one

[@eechinn]

Thank you! Though Womanism was coined by Alice Walker in 1982. Hudson-Weems coined the term Africana Womanism in the late 1980s. This video really needs to be retitled.

[@lizzzzzzzzzzz6095]

this video is really interesting and well made. I think its worth mentioning that the world is becoming more empathetic and we are encouraged to be moral and open minded. Men are encouraged to share their feelings and 'express their feminism'. And i think that being able to come across as socially appealing is a higher value then being perceived as strong or rich so in some ways values are being shared and although its not quite there maybe in the future there will be less of a difference between feminine and masculine if the values get homogenised.

[@daisyyythefairyyy]

Omg I wanted to comment this but I don't have the words for it thank you😭

[@dited358]

Diluting our distinct and valuable differences into a grey blob will lead to the destruction of any meaningful social foundation

[@universe36]

This is so enlightening! Thanks so much for making this video!

[@danishdart]

I think it's a mistake to identify culture and society as either masculine or feminine according to identity politics. Psychologically, men and women share traits that; if only the constraints of identity politics were to be released from them, would become inherent to their personal identity. A healthier focus for any person is to accept their personal traits without any influence from external value systems. In other words "know thyself" and be brave enough to accept it. Regardless of the consequences. I believe Much of the gender dysphoria and general modern dysphoria is a subconscious rejection of societal norms and expectations(most often self-imposed and imagined) and the effects can be extreme overcompensations Like suicide and assault or when it presents itself milder as self isolation or social disconnection. So I will say to you, who reads this. Say your own name and learn to identify With that. If you need a new name, find one. Long before you identify as a male or female, or as a race, as a nationality, as a sexuality, as anything other than the very core of your being. Identify with yourself! This may sound narcissistic but it is not. It is only the foundation. You will still be a gender, a nationality, a skin colour. Etc. But you will now be able to deal with those issues on your own terms in way that's relevant and healthy for you.

[@dited358]

In a sea of long winded comments I have a simple question: While we're working within a masculine framework, how is it that men are getting less masculine?

[@NoonyJW]

Simple answer, They aren’t.

[@dited358]

@@NoonyJW That's not an answer, thats denial. Every known metric of masculinity has gone down since the 60s. Feel free to try again and provide an actual (answer) that corresponds to reality.

[@medusajellyfish1310]

⁠@@dited358it’s an interesting topic to explore and I’m sure there’s many theories on why this is happening- as I’m not a man I can’t go from personal experience, but I’d say masculine traits are probably disappearing as they’re not necessary to survive in society anymore. You don’t need to be tough to get through schooling- you don’t need to do physical work, etc.

[@Mark.Allen1111]

Thinking vs feeling. The more order, the more feeling. The more chaos, the more thinking. The feeling is definitely on the rise. Of course you could look at it the opposite way and that would make sense too. Good video.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Mark!

[@Awarewoolf]

Thank you! Very well thought out and delivered, I couldn't agree more.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@timmcdraw7568]

This is such a deeply wonderful video. It feels like something I should listen to on a regular basis, so I plan to.

[@ellisfmorton4086]

Thanks!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Ellis!!

[@ellisfmorton4086]

​@@TheLivingPhilosophy You're an absolute legend! All of your videos are fascinating and put into words things that I half know but cannot properly express. Keep going, there is a real need for a channel like yours in the philotube space - many thanks for all your efforts :)

[@MJPTHA3RD]

Foucault would point to whether or not there are masculine or feminine traits at all. Personally, the devaluation of fluidity between traits regardless of sex is a great failing in most gender-based discourse. When you discuss reevaluations, I think the first thing that is needed is this consideration, which would ultimately lead to a radical de-systematization of the characteristics of gender. Great video!!! Thanks for the awesome content. Edit: The insights at 13:00 and onward are quite good!!!!

[@jamesgillam6478]

I disagree with much of what was said in this video but really enjoyed it, and found it very thought provoking! I look forward to thinking these things over during the next few days and trying my best to broaden my perspective.

[@anastasiamalikova]

I think it's important to mention the extreme effect that masculinism is having on the attitude towards women's pregnancy and children. Because women are expected to perform well in intense careers, we're expected to prioritize our careers over children and pregnancy. Pregnancy is arguably the most amazing and beautiful thing a human being can do - create life; and is also a uniquely female gift. And it is now seen as a hinderance and obstacle to a woman's career and independence (male values). Birth control is used to suppress our female body functions, to essentially make us function more like a man. I believe it also is why there is an increase in the LGBTQ community because women can perform all the male roles. Woman can be the provider and the supporter in the relationship.

[@humanbean7884]

While I agree that we should reappreciate 'feminine' values in society, we also shouldn't essentialize womanhood. Pregnancy and getting a child can obviously be magical, and neither women nor men should feel like their value is determined by their competitiveness in capitalism, birth control should still be seen as a completely valid choice for those who prefer to not have children. And while acceptance of gay people in the mid 20th century went hand in hand with birth control (as the idea that sex was purely for getting pregnant became less common) this doesn't mean that the increase of lgbtq people is because of womanhood being devalued. It's the acceptance that makes lgbtq people feel more safe to come out, that's all.

[@joym.8905]

Thank you once again for saying what needs to be heard. I’ve been saying this for decades. We humans are stuck in a masculine worldview and it won’t be easy to get out of it. Maybe it’s our species’ trait - like we are closer to Chimps than to Bonobos. I hope that’s not the case. Anyway, thanks again for your great work! 👍

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Joy! I like the mapping over with the chimps and bonobos. Hopefully we can embrace more of the make love not war attitudes of the bonobos!

[@golith41]

The feminine mindset only leads to people screaming "that's not fair" the feminine mindset will never take humanity forward though the feminine mindset cultivates humanity it will not push it forward.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

I watched a video recently of Marie Louise Von Franz on the Animus. She mentioned an anecdote in Jung's life when he visited Bengal (where they mostly worship Mother Kali) he noticed that there the woman were all regal beings and the men looked like children. Somehow the acknowledgement of the feminine archetype generally strengthened the native feminity in women,, but infantilized the men. I guess ultimately, we need a society that acknowledges the light and dark of both polarities of yin and yang. The feminine isn't all light.. the masculine isn't all toxic.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@michaelmcclure3383 Fascinating michael! That ties in with Aaron's comment about the transformation in the perception of masculine traits since the 80s and the white knight culture that has resulted. Much more to explore here it seems! I think ultimately it's always gotta be about finding a balance between the two dynamisms

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@supremereader7614]

That was an amazing video! You should get paid subscription, (Not Patreon) Feminism thrusts women in a competitive male value structure and feminists wonder why they're not happy.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks again Supreme Reader. I've been humming and hawing over the paid subscription. Why do you think it's a good idea? I was worried about confusing people with another way to subscribe but am certainly open to the idea

[@jonnyblamey]

Very good. Well explained and true. I got a sense of this from “Who cooked Adam Smiths dinner” a book on economics from I think a feminine perspective. The invisible economy, meaning all the valuable work done in society that isn’t paid and therefore doesn’t show up, is largely feminine. Teaching language and socialising children is about the most valuable function of human society. Everything else depends on it. But this work is largely unpaid and almost always free. We learn to speak, and with language comes all knowledge. Is money itself masculine? Economists tend to be men. This is a long thank you for and interesting and important talk.

[@marylamb1407]

Men are also needed for socialising children. This is the point of the ying and yang. There is no whole without both parts.

[@treeross]

I honestly can't even say that the ideas of femininity and masculinity are based on any facts. It seems like it was just opinions of individuals on what it means to be masc or fem.

[@meownover1973]

The woman, or feminism, has to become like lillith. She's distinctly a feminine woman but she draws her own boundaries and dances to her own drum. That being said, I've seen a trend on tiktok where young girls are taking back thier femininity while pursuing leadership postions.

[@AC-mp7cx]

feminism is wrong. There is no equality at all. And add man hatred on top of that, a destroyed society

[@AC-mp7cx]

leadership is a masculine trait

[@meownover1973]

@@AC-mp7cx no. Cope.

[@chrystianaw8256]

​@@AC-mp7cxnot necessarily. There's such thing as masculine leadership and feminine leadership. They both operate in different ways

[@Kabby-ur7pd]

This is an absolutely brilliant.

[@peterlynley]

This might be your most important video yet. I really hope it gets a wide viewing. I have always deeply disliked the recent decades denigration of motherhood ("just a housewife") by modern feminism and your formulation helps me get a clearer picture of this mistake.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Peter. I have a very similar feeling and really think that this is my most important statement so far

[@santerisatama5409]

Social change - Great David Graeber started to talk about caring classes instead of "working class", meaning of which is strongly associated with the fetish of productivism in the prototypical image of a factory worker of mechanized Fordism. A spoon is produced only once, but it's washed a zillion times. The toolbelt stallions of the modern society are mostly engaged in care in the form of maintenance and upkeep instead of building and producing new stuff; Social movements like Yellow vests etc. 'essential work' struggles are caring class phenomena; whether people engaged in essential care take care of mechanical stuff, soil or other people. A sign of changing times is perhaps also the fact that greatest contemporary hero of modernist productionism, Elon Musk, is also very open about his strong asperger traits, and justifies his technological creativity with ecological sustainability of the technological civilization, stating in essence that his masculine creativity is in service of feminine care and reproduction.

[@fahadalghamdi9316]

The fundamental issue with this, is the problem that comes with femininity innately. Masculinately's innate problem is hyper-competition, and Femeninity's innate problem is mysticism. i honestly believe that the age of femininity is almost inevitable (barring a catastrophe that destroys world peace). The real question would be, would such "femininity" learn to avoid mysticism and maintain a healthy masculine form or doom us towards mysticism? we shall see.

[@shallowwatersoriginal]

In other words, power doesn't come in many forms and we are doomed to our weaknesses. Accept it and go on. Don't fight it.

[@galwhite7011]

Good job dude

[@mantisshadow8990]

This video left me in an interesting state. I sympathised with alot of the sentiments of the video and I recently have been warming up to embracing the nuance of the human creature ever since encountering it in the chapter titled "The Law of Gender Rigidity" in "The Laws of Human Nature" by Robert Greene. However the idea of what should be done, on how society should or atleast could function outside of masculism is incredibly difficult for me to contextualize. I fail to see however the shift from "great mother" societies have brought about alot of the nihilistic dread and depression of today's age. Well actually, not the shift away from it but rather HOW "great mother" societies dealt with the human animal to mitigate against some of the negatives of a masculine dominated world. I really wish you do a follow up video to this one and flesh out the ideas in greater detail or explore conceptualizations of a more feminist future. It would be an interesting watch. Again this was an interesting video and I hope to see more on the topic.

[@hast3033]

at 12:20 u mention that femininity was becoming replaced ca 10000 years ago with the advent of agriculture. My history is still very poor, but I recall it being rather at the coming of the hieractic states that the masculine became predominant and started clashing with the hithertho matriarchical structure of the agriculturalists? That the mythologies of Mother Godess, the Serpent, the Sun and the Moon were becoming reinterpeted and consequently diminished by the new paradigm which aimed at the cosmological justification of its triumph through the subjugation of the feminine, where women were to be purely submissive to their husbands, like satis in India, etc.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Interesting this rings a bell but I don't know enough about that period. Would love to learn more though because that's really interesting. I had someting that Ken Wilber wrote in mind. He wrote about the shift from horticultural societies (using a hoe and so it was a form of agriculture that women could do even when pregnant thus it was primarily a female activity) to agricultural societies (using the plough and needing the increased strength of men while also leading to miscarriages in women). In Sex Ecology Spirituality Wilber talks about how overnight the pantheons of these societies switched: "In horticultural societies, women produced about 80 percent of the foodstuffs (and consequently shared considerable public power with men); a pregnant woman could still easily use a handheld hoe, but not a plow. When the plow was invented, men took up virtually all of the productive work, the matrifocal modes of production gave way to patrifocal modes, and the reigning deity figures switched from Great Mother to Great Father focus. (Peggy Sanday has demonstrated that predominant female deity figures appear almost exclusively in horticultural societies-about a third of them have female-only deities, and another third have male and female deities; whereas virtually all agrarian societies have male-only deities. Thus, one of the conclusions of volume 2 is that where women work the fields with a hoe, God is a Woman; where men work the fields with a plow, God is a Man."

[@hast3033]

​@@TheLivingPhilosophy I tried finding something scrolling through Campbells Occidental Mythology vol.3. What i was able to glimpse wasthe following: "The peace and bounty of the goddess, based upon the rites of her temple groves of sacrifice, spread from he nuclear Near East in a broad swathe, eastward and westward, to the shores of the two seas; but many of the arts and benefits of her reign were scattered also among the wild peoples northward and southward, who became not settled farming folk but semi-nomadic herders of cattle, or of sheep and goats. These, by c. 3500 B.C., were becoming dangers to the farming villages and towns, appearing suddenly in raiding bands, plundering and departing, or, more seriously, remaining to enslave. They stemmed, as we have seen, from two great matrices: the broad grasslands of the north and Syro-Arabian desert. By 3000 B.C. power stats were being established by such invaders, and by c. 2500 B.C. the rule in mesopotamia had passed decisively to a series of strong men from the desert…” (page 67) He later in the books also speaks of the psychological significance of the displacement of emphasis from feminine to masculine, he says, “And so it has been throughout all patriarchal mythologies. The function of the female has been systematically devalued, not only in a symbolical cosmological sense, but also in a personal, psychological. Just as her role is cut down, or even out, in myths of the origin of the universe, so also in hero legends. It is, in fact, amazing to what extent the female figures of epic, drama and romance have been reduced to the status of mere objects: or, when functioning as subjects, initiating action of their own, have been depicted either as incarnate demons or as mere allies of the masculine will.” (page 143)

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@hast3033 That last quote is an absolute gem. I would have used that in the episode had I known it. As for the first quote that's really interesting. I think we can reconcile our two points by qualifying that it was 10k years ago when the mainline of civilisation innovated from horticultural society to agricultural society. These invaders were the barbarians at the door who were like tributaries that converged with this mainline of civilisation and entered history proper. As for the end of the feminine society I'd like to read around this quote to see what Campbell is referring to with the Goddess. It'd be interesting to see what he's talking about. Great quote

[@benthornhill7903]

Couldn't agree more. I have been saying for some time that the adoption of masculine ideology by women has led to a complete imbalance. I wonder whether the distinction between equality and equivalency could have saved the day. Equivalency of the sexes as well as acknowledging the fact masculine and feminine qualities are existential and are available and necessary for us all to be whole.

[@miahthemage168]

Really thought-provoking

[@GE0attack]

Actually a good unbiased video. And this points out how it's controlled by few guys at top make sure everyone fights each other and they come on top.

[@Forward_Escape_Solutions]

Nice to meet you I know genius when i meet them and this channel is pure brilliance

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Haha I don't know about that but I really appreciate the compliment!

[@santerisatama5409]

'Internal collective' is the ontological advaita domain of emotional empathy, which is the essence of our feminine aspect&divinity. Our innate ability to cry not just for our "own" pain and sorrow, but for that of all sentient beings. The big, heart opening cry. The art of lament. The soft and moist ground of living feminine philosophy. PS: Ouch, what is the hard and dry hellenic light doing to the fair Irish complexion! :D I remember that light was very different there. Seferis is the poet of the GreeK Light, like Heaney is the poet of Irish Bog.

[@denniscash4072]

What another wonerful video. I would love to have a reading list from you. It is very obvious to me that we have read many of the same thinkers/writers (perhaps even had some of the same professors, indirectly), but I would love some suggested readings from you. You are apparently much more in the academic loop than I am at present, and I am always seeking out other thinkers/writers whom I have yet to discover. Perhaps Ziziek, as I was only made aware of him and his thoughts on my way out of the halls of academia? Again, I greatly appreciate your work, and I do not really expect any reading list but I also wouldn't scoff at it. And, @1:35 into this video is glorious and funny on a grand scale!!! Where would it fall on the BSRI? After all, it is assertive and musical and hyper-real!!! :)

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Haha thanks Dennis I put far too much time into making that two second bit but it was worth it really. I am actually working on a reading list on the website. But it's not at the front of my mind so it could be a couple of months out yet but watch this space! You won't find Zizek on it though. Like you I heard of him in passing when I was in university (though never actually inside the walls of the Academy, more on the grapevine) but have never delved into his work

[@alexanderdenheijer565]

Fantastic video by the way. I love your channel

[@brrradley1]

Very insightful points, especially the observation that it’s the value system that matters. I disagree in the overall perspective because I think any attempts to collectively affect value systems is problematic. True masculine and feminine connection is individualistic and private.

[@mountbrocken]

what I find is that the feminine vs. masculine traits are not traits that are as such best defined as feminine or masculine, or as if they are exhibited more by either of the sexes. Rather I would argue that these traits are reflective of physical vs. spiritual or mechanistic/materialistic vs. idealistic/personal traits. As such, the traits track better with impersonal to personal traits. When we are more assertive we are ignoring the importance of the other. When we are more mathematical we are ignoring qualities which are related to the other, and so forth. And so, it seems that masculine traits are merely traits which reflect a focus on impersonal, mechanistic, materialistic, physical features over the personal, abstract, individualistic, spiritual features. As far as I can tell, the only reason they are associated with a specific sex is due to superficial expressions of them in each respective gender role. But, for instance, just because a woman is less assertive physically or directly doesn’t mean they aren’t any less assertive fundamentally. A woman will seek to assert her will just as much as a male, but generally due to a weaker physique she must do so indirectly through emotional rather than physical manipulation, indirect speech, and so forth. This is just one of countless examples one could look at to uncover STRATEGIES EMPLOYED to instantiate these physical traits rather than ‘masculine’ traits. Spiritual traits which favor the personal are shared by the masculine and the feminine as well (and to try to distinguish men from an abstract masculine and women from an abstract feminine is a semantic not a categorical strategy). Likewise, the notion that pre-agrarian societies were less patriarchal is also a myth. While it may seem they may have valued the nurturing of children more and thus elevated the role of the women in a community, this ignores the necessity of nurturing in agrarian societies as well. The presence of male and female deities where the latter were more prevalent than the former in pre-agrarian societies is probably due to the theological development of a pantheon rather than a pragmatic theological mythos. The apparent ‘patriarchal gods of agrarian societies such as those of the Abrahamic religions exhibit both these supposed masculine and feminine traits. For the God of the Bible in the Old Testament exhibits nurturing loving traits as well as vengeful, violent, calculating traits. I would venture to say that the latter traits are projections of socio-political concerns of the people themselves due to scarcity of resources and the like. To suggest these concerns were not in pre-agrarian societies would be shorter-sighted at best. And obvious individuals like the Jesus of the New Testament is almost entirely exhibiting these ‘feminine’ traits rather than the ‘masculine’. This is to suggest that these map on to a spiritual/physical divide rather than a feminine masculine divide.

[@carmenchandler5164]

I hear you, but it's very problematic that you are using the term "womanism" to define the historical uprising of women against patriarchy. Womanism is already a known term, coined in the 1980s by Alice Walker. It is a framework for understanding and valuing Black women's lived experiences at the intersection of racism and sexism. It seeks wholeness and healing; I recently heard it said that the Womanist's goal is "for everyone to win." I agree that feminine values deserve our collective attention, and Walker's Womanism (as I understand it) already holds feminine values in a place of deep reverence and intentional practice. It would be a worthwhile project to devise a different term for your argument.

[@trevorstark5845]

This is incredible. Keep up the good work!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Trevor!

[@android65mar]

Audacious and interesting reflection- I like it,

[@sinisterminister3322]

Excellent video, and I could not agree more, although while a Nietzschean reevaluation of our values is sorely needed, Nietzsche did not seem to value feminine values much himself.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

A very good point and I couldn't help but have a wry smile to be framing Nietzsche in such a way. Although his friends group was almost exclusively made up of highly intelligent feminist women so perhaps it would merely be a spoiling of his sport with these friends. I don't think he'd be as dismissive of it as it seems at first. We might even be able to convince him who knows!

[@jaye5872]

Interesting video but what about the fact that testosterone levels have been dropping a lot in men in recent decades and that men are becoming less masculine?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Another very interesting thing to throw in the mix. I now realise between this and a couple of other comments how I missed out on addressing this shift in culture over the last 60 years. I think I'll be exploring that more in future

[@manniking233]

Where has this channel been all my life?

[@godsamongstmen4164]

Despite not getting most of the video, I'm very interested in this topic. Any reccomendations of videos, books, podcasts, etc that talks more about this?

[@marie-elsarochebragg5700]

Great lectures and love your humour!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Haha thanks Marie-Elsa!

[@pistolen87]

"To put this in perspective, before the agricultural revolution experts estimate that there were six to ten million people, which is about how many hunter-foragers the Earth could sustain. By the time of the Roman Empire, about 10,000 years later, the world population had grown over 25-fold to 250 million." - The dawn of agriculture (article) - Khan Academy. I sometimes also yearn for a different world, with a better balance between the masculine and the feminine. I wonder though if that requires us to limit the human population on the planet. Can the feminine win in a war with the masculine? Will it not be outcompeted? Good video!

[@notannie4798]

Very interesting video. Nothing is more of a social construct than gender and masculinity/feminity

[@Soltuts]

Another great video! I think that a true balance between masculine and feminine is starting to happen, i see more women expressing the masculine traits and more men expressing the feminine traits, bringing balance at the level of each individual. In most wisdom traditions, it is necessary to balance both of these forces within oneself regardless of what sex you are.

[@Ming1975]

Funny in asia such things was never needed because the terms "big sister", "lady boss" or "head lady" were always common. Duno how this manifested based on Chinese influence.

[@RedRosa]

Great thought-provoking stuff! Thanks!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks a million Rosa!