FFXIV PRIMALS: Metaphysics and Origins

[@Zaftikins]

I love how the lore evolves in this game. They don't play their entire hand and then have to retcon it later, they slowly drip-feed it, even expansions way in the future. Odin came to us in A Realm Reborn (2.0). We learned at the Baldesion Arsenal (4.5) that Eureka, the creation primal, had created weapons that allowed its will to take over its wielder. One such weapon was Zantetsuken. That was yeeeeeeears in the future.

[@dumbledink2434]

The music used at the start of the video is called "The Silent Regard of Stars" and plays at night in the Dravanian Hinterlands, for anyone who (like me) was going mad trying to figure out where they knew it from. (And yep, its available for orchestrion!)

[@taa347]

I don't know if you already have, but it'd be really cool if you made a video detailing all the umbral calamities and what brought about their astral counterparts

[@Beredaman08]

The Eikon distinction is what interests me most at this point. On one hand, that they are not the same is information given to us by Unukulhai, a source of information that could be misleading (unintentionally or intentionally) but based in truth at best or flat out false at worst. On the other hand, the existence of creatures that are powerful in their own right - in the way dragons like Midgardsormr apparently are (his origin according to the conversation with Tiamat is interesting as well) - could certainly help to explain the various myths and legends that gave rise to primals like Titan or Ifrit, and potentially some others where we aren't already sure of their origin. That there are others apparently trapped around Eorzea doesn't really help clarify either - while getting rid of primals generally means dispersing the aether keeping them together, and so one might initially think that trapping something powerful rather than being rid of it means it couldn't be removed (which would seem to make them something other than primals), the Allagans have shown they have the means and at times motivation to trap and keep a primal summoned for lengthy periods of time. And then there's Odin. Unukulhai includes him as one of the eikons, and not being a primal would help to explain how it was able to escape its prison on its own and why it operates in a manner not quite like the other primals. That, ultimately, is what I hope is the case - that Odin and the other beings that are eikons are ultimately different than the primals and possibly even the truth behind the myth in the case of some, that they are - in a sense - the true demi-gods of Eorzea, rather than the manifestation of beliefs or desires from the mortal races.

[@c_huvaknunh9138]

Ethys,thank you for your interesting videos. It always makes my days at work a lot more tolerable. I would like to introduce an idea that falls into alignment with your theories. The Ascians influence the beast tribes into praying for a being from their own history. Weather this entity was a deity, hero or an average joe is irrelevant, what is relevant and always a constant is aether usage. As you noted from the battle of King Thordan and the Knights Twelve, their use of any aether was present. Now going back to idea of a Primal needing to be an aspect of an element is not completely true. My thoughts are that the beast tribes utilize the aether that's easily accessible to their environment. Take the example of the Amalj'aa for instance; they live in a hot, arid desert. Notably, the environment itself is littered with Fire Spirits and Bomb Fiends all across Southern Thanalan as well. Using nature may have been the way to initially summon the Primal, however when more aether is required for the summoning to continue, the thralls look to gathering and stealing aether aspect crystals of the element that was used in the initial summoning. The reason the Amalj'aa focus on fire crystals is because the collective consciousness believes that it must be that way. "Fire must breath fire, if not, our champion will not be strong enough." I'm just speculating, and perhaps I'm way off, but maybe you're on to something. Once again thank you.

[@Youngimperialist]

This reminds me quite a lot of how magic,demons,and gods work in Warhammer and 40k.

[@Trademark989]

Great video Ethys! I especially like your mentioning of Luisoix's summoning of the Twelve (or their power). I had been curious as to how to classify this for some time and this gives some greater clarity. I've had one big question lingering in my mind though: Does the essence or soul of a primal continue after its defeat? Or to put it another way: is the same being summoned each time a primal is summoned, drawing upon the original soul, or is a new being created with each summoning? I'm interested to hear your thoughts Ethys.

[@henrywesterman493]

Given their similarities, I am beginning to suspect that Ravana may be a Gnath god based upon Allagan technology. The first boss of Fractal bears a very striking resemblance to Ravana and even includes some similar attacks... including the ability to use fire-based attacks (note the lasers he shoots at the ground) and similar swordplay (conal attacks, a sweeping circular AOE).

[@Megad00mer]

Great video. Would love more like this. Super interesting.

[@Mortimer13]

Ethys, what's the significance of primals being summoned as their own entities vs. a person becoming a primal (Iceheart -> Shiva etc.)? Does it take less crystals to summon if you sacrifice your own body as a corporeal vessel? Do you lose yourself completely? From Iceheart it seems like she can feasibly summon Shiva at will, without fear of being consumed or otherwise permanently harmed.

[@Dynme]

First, regarding elemental aspects and the consumption of aether: I suspect that Thordan and Unukalhai are both correct in their own ways, but neither giving the full picture. We know from Garuda Story Mode that Primals can consume aether of any aspect, otherwise Garuda would not have tried to consume Titan and Ifrit. That said, we also know that she surrounds herself with wind-aspected aether. Why? I propose it's because it is what she is best able to absorb and manipulate. Wind is her element, and it lends her its strength quite readily. But when push comes to shove, aether is aether, and the massive quantities represented by Ifrit and Titan are such that even with a loss of efficiency, Garuda would have a net gain in aether. So Thordan is right that aether is aether, but Unukalhai is right that it's more efficient to absorb aether aligned to the Primal's own element. For why they would have an elemental alignment in the first place, I think it falls back to the beliefs of the summoners. Odin, Bahamut, Moggle Mog, and Thordan are unaligned because there is no unifying belief among their summoners that they should be aligned to anything in particular. Leviathan is based on a sea serpent, an as such would naturally be associated with water in the minds of the summoners. Garuda is associated with flight, and flight with wind. Bismark from what I can tell is associated with the weather, which is primarily manifested by wind and water (even if technically the sun determines the weather). If Titan is to protect the kobolds, he must be at home beneath the surface, where they spend most of their time. Of course, that has a hard time explaining Ramuh and Shiva. . . Speaking of Ramuh, is there any reason to take him at his word when he says that he remembers a time before the duality of light and dark? If even Tiamat, who I think would have the best chance of summoning what she truly wanted, was only able to summon a disgraceful imitation, then I would think that whatever original the Sylphs are working with is vastly different from the Ramuh we see. And so while Ramuh may claim to remember a time before the duality, I suspect that is only true because enough of the Sylphs believe he *would*.

[@YazzPott]

Do you ever see a possibility of the warrior of light having to deal with the image of themselves becoming a primal? Or would we have to be dead for an image to be made? Im sure we've been sung about enough in ballads and we may be heroized in the same way as some of these origin stories.

[@wingsofwar]

Grinc10 I don't think i'd happen. Primals are un-natural souls come to form and power, while the warrior of light had already had form before receiving echo and power. The power of the echo is borrowed from Hydalyn and protects its weilders so becoming a Primal after death of the host might be null. Otherwise the previous warriors of light or even the Zodiack Braves would have become Primals. King Thordan however was a power man but he didn't have the "blessing" unlike the warrior of light which i think is why he was "converted" into a Primal giving form to the archbishop.

[@GaniEmi]

Grinc10 warrior of darkness maybe, we'll have to see where that goes

[@Alpacnologia]

Generally primals are created based off a concept that is being focused on by worship and fueled through aether (either crystallised or gathered through other means, a la Tupsimati or the horn that fueled Alexander). In the case of our existing, we would likely just receive that aether if we were the would-be summoners' focus. Ysayle was able to summon Shiva unto herself because the concept behind the Shiva she created was *a spirit that would give her power.* All of the elemental ice was coincidental, a result of how she and her followers viewed the Shiva they tried and failed to summon. If we were dead, our aether scattered to the wind, then yes - a primal could be created from our image. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that *is* something that would happen somewhere down the line. Edit: this is evidenced with Good King Moggle Mog XII, as there was no Good King to connect with at the time of the summoning the ritual simply created a "Good King" that followed those moogles' conception of him, monkey's paw style.

[@IanBoehmeME]

@@wingsofwar What about Shiva though? She was once a mortal.

[@wingsofwar]

@@IanBoehmeME yeah my 6 year old comment holds no weight now, I was very wrong especially with all the information we have now.

[@amitamaru]

It's funny to think how the most dangerous creatures in Eorzea are, in practice, imaginary friends. It seems like the primal phenomenon in the game is more a kin to a green lantern ring. It is willpower that shapes given energy into a desired form. Thordan exploited this by turning himself into a godlike being of his own free will, never a victim of the first King's mind, even without the Echo. Then there's the goblins and Alexander. It seems "summoning" is really the power to create anything by shaping ambient aether to your desire. If I had the knowledge, I could probably imagine the ultimate sword and "summon" that at any time.

[@EvanAdvent]

I have two theories that I think are pretty solid about Primals. The first is one the supports the words of both Thordan and Unukalhai and that is that an elementally aspected Primal draws greater strength from there element than from others. Unukalhai using the term 'efficiency' in his explanation is one of my key supports. For example, if Ifrit were to be summoned using Crystals of any element other than Fire he would be weaker than an Ifrit summoned by the same amount of Crystals if they were only Fire Crystals.

[@EvanAdvent]

+EvanAdvent My other theory is about Odin. Odin is identified as an 'Eikon' rather than a Primal and in his Lore text the name Allag is mentioned. My theory is that the sword Zantetsuken is a weapon of Allagan creation. One of my key points is that the glamour item for Zantetsuken is only a handle and the blade only appears when the sword is drawn almost like a lightsaber. My theory is that Zantetsuken was a project meant to harness a Primal's power and Odin himself is one of three things. He is a Primal sealed inside Zantetsuken akin to the Ultima Weapon, he is a Primal created by Allag for the purpose of the project, or he is a summoning based on the original weilder of the Zantetsuken. Please tell me what you think of these two theories.

[@sciguy98]

I wonder if Odin is sustained by the scary stories and urban legends that surround an "unbeatable dark warrior in the woods". Seems like once the story got started, all of the mothers telling their kids, "Stay out of the Twelveswood at night or the Dark Divinity will get you!" and the drunks talking about their narrow escape from a dark swordsman, etc, would be just as effective as actual prayer. Instead of being fueled by will, maybe he's fueled by fear? As a more primal emotion, that might explain why he never really goes away.

[@silasthornblood9038]

I would love to see you continue the story of your travels from your ARR Abridged into the other expansions. I imagine it takes a very long time to make them though.

[@mutantpotato42]

Since beating the new story i'm quite interested int he idea of how primals come to exist. With the legend the WoL is creating for his/herself, its quite possible that someone will eventualy summon the WoL as a primal themselves. I am curious though, are Hyaedalyn and Zodiark really any different than primals themselves? What is to say that you're not immune to tempering simply because Hyaedalyn has already tempered you to her will previously?

[@BlackKanye]

One thing I wish to know is if someone can be tempered by a primal, but still have free-will (as allowed by the primal). I don't know how to give an example without reaching super hard, but take if someone was tempered by Ramuh by request. Does that mean they could do what the WOL does and fight primals without fear of being tempered? I mean yes it does I think, but what I mean is would the person be sane enough to still.

[@DrazzyDrazzan]

Hey Ethys, Great video as always. I'm curious to your own theory on, which you briefly mentioned, Throdan and his Knights Twelve. Do you have any theory to why they went to Azys Laa? Was it just a plot device ex machina type thing to get us there? As it seemed he had little reason to even go, being that he already had everything he possessed in order to transform. Was it to potential lure the Ascians out, as they had promised him something, apparently, and he actively worked against them without their knowledge (Although it'd be stupid to assume they didn't know). Anyway! Thanks for the video, can't wait to see the next one! :)

[@zero69kage]

Throdin went to Azis Lla to feed on the Waring Triad, feeding on Lahabrea was likely just a bonus.

[@ImezameI]

Might it be that zantetsuken is actually powered by people's belief in it as a legendary weapon akin to the stories about excalibur, and the wielder is not fueled by enough belief on his own to be manifest ( and only is manifested through a tempered individual full of fervor) since we get really no info on odin, but lots of tidbits about the actual sword

[@ReinGD]

I don't think the crystals gathered to draw aether for primal summoning are a factor in which element the primal it self takes, I mean Shiva took form using the Gnath's crystals (Unless I missed something in the story which I probably did). I would say the image of the primal itself is what gives it their elemental affinity. All hail Ravana, four-fold master of the blade btw.

[@damiansekora1958]

it's kinda like farcry where your walking through a desert for ages where the journey is in essence of enlightenment. where as finding the ancient city or moreso the mind manifesting this place. tho is it a mirage or a a place of sanctuary? it's like the construction of life is something that requires that of itself.

[@jefga85]

Is this video going to need an update with possible 5.5 upcoming story implications for Silvertear Lake?

[@nakomat09]

as always your video are a great watch keep them up ^^

[@IoannesBellator]

Just as a correction at 3:00, "Immaculate Conception" does not refer to the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ, but the notion that Mary of Nazareth was born without sin, that she was conceived "Immaculate". Just a minor correction.

[@hao013]

What about the information provide for Zenos about the Echo. Is a superior will ??

[@pooch2nooch]

Watching!

[@lightninginmyhands4878]

Do you have transcripts?

[@joshuataylor7443]

So there kinda like ff9 summons backstory?

[@JulianSkies]

Ethys, I would give a bit more mind to what Unukulhai says, it's probably unwise to just think he might be lieing. If one looks up the origin of his name, you are looking at the 'Cor Serpentis' or 'Alpha Serpentis', the star at the head of the serpentarius constellation. Something sound familiar? Enough to at least give a hint as to wether or not take him a bit more seriously.

[@EthysAsher]

JulianSkies oh I'm definitely giving him plenty of mind - and the allusion to serpentarius has been interesting me. He could be Fafnir, he could be an Allagan, he could be an Ascian... my point is more that I'm not going to take his word for anything until we work out both his identity and his angle. I hope that clarifies.

[@somed214]

So Unukulhai is the name of a star in Serpentarius. And who was the holder of the Serpentarius auracite in Final Fantasy Tactics? Elidibus. {Hmmm.}

[@Person1................68]

Yoshitaka Amano designed those goddess concepts before Tetsuya Nomura.

[@notrealsaga]

Coming back from Endwalker all i can say is.... Wow