Aikijujutsu vs Okiken Judo

[@dariodesansebastian]

Friendly neighbourhood Judo black belt here! Here you have a summary of the techniques employed, with the names in Japanese. 00:26 Ippon seoi nage (shoulder throw) kzbin.info/www/bejne/fILRgJ95rdRnpas It's done in a seoi othoshi way (kneeling seoi nage) kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKaUhYCMg9OkaZY It uses the grip from a seoi nage, but the body positioning of a seoi otoshi. 1:00 Kuchiki taoshi attempt (single leg). kzbin.info/www/bejne/kH-vZWqnZsZ9hLs He didn't break his opponent's balance, therefore he gave him room to sprawl. 1:18 Uki otoshi or sumi otoshi (I can't see it well with that ange, both are pure unbalancing moves) kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHmYpaCkmLSMarM and kzbin.info/www/bejne/on24aqqsapehn5I Extremely difficult to perform, good stuff. 1:46 O goshi attempt kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5nYYqCcrpepgJaourned into a Irimi roll attempt kzbin.inforvlSt8y8b4c (Ask our BJJ brothers for more info). He tried to get a heel hook, but it got sloppy, Please bjj brothers explain us what he did wrong! Well, this judo guy deserved to lose the match. Poor striking technique. It's also true that his opponent was bigger and knew how to defend against grappling. If you face another grappler, you must have strong striking game. (Same at grappling means it's just gonna be striking). Oss, brothers and sisters!!!

[@ssths]

this is what aikido and judo used to be like. Aikijujutsu is one of the ancestor arts of aikido. Aikido used to have striking, but it became something that isnt practiced as much anymore.

[@AlphonsoFrett-xz6pi]

Thanks

[@Aikibiker1]

I learned Aikido from a guy that studied under the founder in the 1950's and later one of his direct students. He taught a LOT of atemi, including kicks, elbows, and knee strikes. My original sensei passed away and the school I train at now stresses practicality, but does not have the depth of striking in it's training, so when I suddenly start throwing a combo in the middle of a throw or takedown it really shocks the lower ranked students.

[@martialgeeks]

My aikido mentor who's doing jiu jitsu with us told me that when he had his own aikido dojo, he'd do two things; teach typical aikido for the philosophical excersice, but after that for people interested in function he'd do a combative class with actual sparring and drilling which he called aikijitsu, and it would be more or less judo with a focus on redirection and wristlocks

[@EponaDreams-AmbientDreamscapes]

​@martialgeeks we used to ask our Sensei for this after class but he didn't like aggression. So a few of us used to practise outside after class and between classes. I also learned kung-fu and Muay Thai which this reminds me of. I didn't see any blending movements or use of ki here.

[@Aikibiker1]

@@EponaDreams-AmbientDreamscapes adding atemi to your Aikido is actually pretty simple. If you have a free hand, you should be hitting the other guy. If you are moving any part of your body closer to the other guy, you should hit him with it. If your legs are not in motion to move your body, you should think about kicking the other guy with them. Probably helps to have an understanding of vital points on the body, but not totally necessary, the object is to make the other guy think about getting hit while you turn his wrists into a pretzel or throw him on the ground.

[@supervisorone5960]

Cool match thanks for bringing us the breakdown commentary and kudos to the shorter guy for bringing it to the taller that was a strange backfist but it connected

[@Adiarby13]

according to its founder, Aikido is '90% atemi (striking), so this is probably what aikido originally look like before it turned into something we see these days. Even jujitsu had lots of punching and kicking before the Gracies turned it into butt scooting BJJ...

[@canaldesugestoesa6651]

This it make sense.

[@tayslaywift9361]

Dang Jerry, you've been pumping out gold lately

[@FightCommentary]

Glad you enjoy this one! Doing my best to keep up the work that makes this channel stand out!

[@joegodfrey8044]

That was some of the best Aikido and Judo I have ever seen. The Judo guy was so well rounded. And the Aikido guy using mostly strikes and Aikido as a true counter strike force. Incredible!!!

[@FightCommentary]

Here's more thoughts and clarifications from the league: It is called Okiken Judo because athletes studied Judo and then Okiken. The league is called 敬天愛人 (Keiten Aijin). The main purpose is not to win or lose in a match, but to test and express the results of daily training, and we have established rules aiming to be in the middle of "practical," "competitive," and "entertaining." Keiten Aijin uses the following rules to recreate a situation closer to a real battle. 1. Prohibition of grappling on the ground In actual combat, grappling on the ground is a dangerous act that increases the risk of being bitten, having your finger put in your eye, having your money taken, and so on. Assuming these situations, a stop will be applied if there is a ground grappling stalemate. 2. Effectiveness of pushing opponent out of bounds In everyday life, it is rare to find a flat place with nothing. Being pushed can cause you to lose your balance if there is an object or uneven step, and depending on the situation, you may be damaged by stairs or landing on the pavement. It is, therefore, necessary to deal with such an environment appropriately and to utilize it skillfully. 3. Judging While in normal martial arts, referees and judges decide the winner or loser, the Keiten Aijin Training Tournament introduces audience judgment. I will get more rules translated as I clarify with the promotion! Make sure to follow them here if you haven't already: www.youtube.com/@keitenaijin-kakutoudo

[@martialgeeks]

Thats's unique and kinda cool

[@ShinigamiTheReaper]

How would I contact this league? I'd love to fo over there and test myself.

[@UltraMagnus3000]

first 2 rules are similar to sanda rules

[@martialgeeks]

@@ShinigamiTheReaper I'd love to try this too, but man I can't travel rn 💀😭

[@kame8432]

I'm actually subscribed to the channel that shows these matches. I like them a lot, considering it is Japanese/Asian martial arts being represented by hobbyist practitioners that are actually from the countries these arts originate from. I think a lot martial artists forget that many of these East Asian martial arts are not always practiced and taught authentically in the US. So our ideas of what they are supposed to look like are incorrect. Traditional Okinawan Karate compared to American karate is a good example of what I mean.

[@ProtomanButCallMeBlues]

Don't you just love it when a tiny Judo guy flips a taller guy.

[@paulfrost8952]

No , I’m always the taller guy😂 but yeah it is impressive!

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

Okiken (Okinawa Kenpo) is effectively used in MMA's stand up game. How do I know? Look for the MMA match between Katsunori Kikuno VS Kuntap Charoenchai (Muay Thai) for a really good example. Kikuno literally knocked out the Thai fighter with Yama Tsuki (mountain punch) which is a move from Naihanchi Kata.

[@harinezumi7389]

I'm a very simple man. Jerry uploads a video with Judo in the title and I click. Simple as.

[@FightCommentary]

More to come!

[@ShinigamiTheReaper]

The black "thing" Aikijujutsu guy is wearing that the Judo guy grabbed is called a Hakama.

[@richardschafer7858]

That was really interesting. I have studied Hakko Ryu Jujitsu for a couple decades, and one of the very first principles is atemi (striking). To have a target of opportunity and not have the skill to take advantage of it is shameful. I really like the pressure testing. Great job finding this. I want to see more!

[@redrenegade7724]

I wondered if I'd see another Hakko-Ryu guy in these comments...great to meet you senpai.

[@davidwhitsitt6245]

Loved this and all your videos.

[@FightCommentary]

Thanks so much!

[@kevinlobos5519]

This was very interesting. I rrally like the goals of this japanese promotion. I think it's a very healthy, not too dangerous middle ground. We can't expect the practitioners to be super good fighters, but they are already upping the game by stepping up. I hope this lasts.

[@mervinmarias9283]

This is the reality of any martial art. You can't force techniques, or if you try you will more often than not end up in trouble. If the opportunity presents itself then there's nothing wrong with going for it. This is also why it is good to have an MMA base.

[@mr.q337]

I think the back first is just a distraction, look at his left arm, he went for a hook to the liver or maybe under armpit after the back first (we can't tell since the body block the camera). I think that's what make the Judo guy go down.

[@VaporWaveViking]

Those pants are called Hakama. :)

[@odn7769]

This was amazing!

[@francosalinas4459]

Bruce lees favorite back fist followed by a cross.

[@Memorixt]

Aikijujitsu is a kind of more archaic (i.e. nearer to its roots) of Aikido.

[@JeremyRoyaux]

very fun ! A nice find and it looks like they have plenty of matches on their channel

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

Btw, I think this is somewhat silly because Japan had already made effective prototypes of MMA that work more reliably in free fighting decades before the first UFC: Nippon Kempo (since 1932), Kudo (1981), Shootboxing and Shooto (during the 80s).

[@TicklingGoat]

One of my coaches was world shootboxing champion in the early 80s!

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

For real? what is this champion's name?

[@TicklingGoat]

@@combatsportsarchive7632 Steve Mackey is his name. By the time I was old enough to do any contact sparring they were all retired. He and the other coaches also fought for PKA, where he lead Bob Thurman to be champion. I am fortunate that I found such high standards training at a young age.

[@ssths]

Im pretty sure this was (no joke, bear with me) a pressure point knockout. That strike landed high on the arm, where the axillary nerve is. If you hit that it can make you dizzy and nauseous, as many strikes that affect highly innervated areas can. (the brachial plexus, solar plexus, the liver, groin, and so on.) If my studies arent failing me, i believe it can mess with your heart rhythm, if its hit via the armpit. I doubt he did it on purpose, but its possible he did, there is a larger margin of error with that strike than some of the ones that require a finger or knuckle strike. This is one i actually use. I parry jabs upward by striking them behind the elbow like this as they come in. I tend to land closer to the elbow and I miss the better part nerve though, so ive never knocked anyone out with it. usually just tweaks the elbow a bit and maybe numbs the arm somewhat. Ive seen a guy dropped with a shot to the armpit though.

[@Undeadhalfelf]

I was gonna say the shot to the shoulder area looked like a set up for the second strike just behind the shoulder and almost in the arm pit, maybe that's how he handled the possible over damage of the strike, or was that where the nerve you mentioned is at?

[@Autonamatonamaton]

Looked like after the backfist hits the arm, there's a left hand to the ribs / liver and a short right hook / ridgehand to the head, probably enough to drop him as it seems he didn't see either shot coming

[@hypnoticskull6342]

I think I know what happened at the end. He hit the Judo guy's liver. He distracted him with the backfist before going in for the shovel hook

[@TicklingGoat]

@@hypnoticskull6342 that is my take as well. Trained full contact for 14 yrs, been coaching for over 10 yrs.

[@christopheralexander195]

I believe you are right. The back fist realigned the Judi ads shoulder and opened the path to the liver shot. It wasn't flashy, but that entry and under the radar hit are excellent martial art.

[@zipper4146]

Hey, I live in Tokyo! They look like a rather chill organization. I will check them out about getting involved.

[@MrRourk]

That is the old tag in the ear! That really disorients people.

[@FightCommentary]

Maybe the punch on his way down?

[@bobbyleglocks1992]

The sleeves on the aikido-jitsu guy are only hurting him so far in this match.

[@arizenzei]

the black "skirt" is called the hakama

[@Brykk]

I have always wanted to see a fighting organization that has a format with no weight/style limitations or classes. Where it is completely winner takes all, no matter what the weight, the fighting style, gender, or the age. Imo, there are no limitations in a street fight, and rarely are the odds equal anyway. Of course, there cant be any blatant injury induced, or blatant attempts to disable anyone, but the rules would be much more open. Just something ive thought about over the years.

[@keitenaijin-kakutoudo]

Okiken Judo players are It is called Okiken Judo because athletes studied Judo and then Okiken. In Keiten Aijin, the main purpose is not to win or lose in a match, but to test and express the results of daily training, and we have established rules aiming to be in the middle of "practical", "competitive" and "entertaining". I am. Rule settings assuming actual combat Keiten Aijin uses the following rules to recreate a situation closer to a real battle. 1. Prohibition of close adhesion In actual combat, a close stalemate is a dangerous act that increases the risk of being bitten, having your finger put in your eye, having your money taken, and so on. Assuming these situations, a stop will be applied if there is a close stalemate. 2. Effectiveness of extrusion In everyday life, it is rare to find a flat place with nothing. Being pushed can cause you to lose your balance if there is an object or step, and depending on the situation, you may be damaged by stairs or roads. It is necessary to deal with such an environment appropriately and to utilize it skillfully. ·judgement While in normal martial arts, referees and judges decide the winner or loser, the Keiten Aijin Training Tournament introduces audience judgment.

[@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst]

What is meaning of "沖拳" (ocean punch)?

[@johnrobinson3117]

Saying this as someone with no connection to Aikido/Aikijujutsu, the characterisation of the latter as more "pressure-tested" wouldn't really differentiate the two. There was a competitive culture in pre-war Japanese martial arts that vitalised characters like Takeda Sokaku, who probably synthesised Daito Ryu from some medley of obscure classical jujutsu and sumo, as well as his pupil Ueshiba Morihei. These were people that trained obsessively and went on "warrior pilgrimages" to challenge/learn from other schools. Post-war, that culture is mostly gone; I think the parallels with something like Tai Chi are quite striking, honestly.

[@keitenaijin-kakutoudo]

@@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst It is the abbreviation of Okinawa Kempo Karate（沖縄拳法空手）.

[@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst]

@@keitenaijin-kakutoudo Oh thank you

[@atomic_wait]

Looked like in the second to last exchange the judoka maybe landed on his head while dumping the other guy out of the ring, he seemed a bit stunned after. Bad fall maybe.

[@charlesreed5839]

A fight always comes down to bad-looking* MMA as we know it, regardless of style considerations and training. *Bad-looking does not mean ineffective.

[@elenchus]

@@charlesreed5839 There's quite a lot of technically beautiful high-level strikers in MMA which do not resort to brawling.

[@siddharthqaz]

They keep getting to stood up when teh fight gets brought to the centre. The judoka would have won otherwise.

[@guynamedlyder]

2:32 The Aikijutjutsu guy probably tripped the judoka. Look at the legs. The "okiken (沖拳)" in okiken judo (沖拳柔道)" the Kanji of it looks like some chinese martial art punching techniques. Like the famous wing chun punch 日字沖拳. But it could also means "Okinawan Kempo (沖繩拳法)" and be abbreviated to "Okiken (沖拳)". I think 敬天愛人 (Kinda a weird name for a fighting match channel lol) is a really good channel for different and underrated martial art matches. There are Shorinji Kempo, Xing yi quan, traditional Karate.

[@charlesmartins5671]

The hook after the back fist got him full in the side rib under the armpit. Depending on the spot he might've got him in places with little to no muscles. That could be quite dangerous. ( 2:05 He lost strength from both legs right after and he's not using his right hand. Maybe a nerve cluster?)

[@Dave-lx3vt]

You need to watch this with Rokas from Martial Arts Journey!

[@nobbytang]

The difference in height and reach in this contest is ridiculous…..the little guy did well considering…

[@JIUJITSUMAN22]

" This must be a more tradicional form of Judo". Nope, it´s just Judo, wich out International Judo Federation (IJF) rules.

[@myke9137]

If Aikijutsu trained with judo ppl and boxers he's pressure tested but do not fight the same way they fight. They can do light to medium pressure test game with hubud drill. Aikijutsu can check, shove, push, pull while touching face or chin or back of the neck like a boxing clinch or muaythai clinch but of course do not strike those sensitive areas. The problem with aikijujutsu people is they fight the same way boxer fights after that he lost his identity.

[@Skaxarrat]

- Oh yeah, the aikido practitioner backfisted the Okiken judoka + What?

[@retroghidora6767]

First this is really cool, second Daito Ryu isn't necessarily more tested than Aikido so much as they have a larger curriculum of techniques especially on the ground.

[@FightCommentary]

Very interesting!

[@ValleyDragon]

@@FightCommentary @retrohidora6767 - Well is Daito-Ryu the only version of AikiJuJutsu? Or aren't there different Schools based on Daito-Ryu? I think Dentokan is a very Aikido like version of Daito-Ryu, but not all are the same.

[@jamesfrankiewicz5768]

@@ValleyDragon It gets a little complicated, but Daitō-ryū was the first to use the term "aikijūjutsu". It was actually made up by Morihei Ueshiba's religious teacher, then adopted by Sōkaku Takeda; note that this happened before Ueshiba left Daitō-ryū to later establish aikido/Aikikai. Daitō-ryū has a bunch of different branches under different names: Roppokai, Hakko-ryū, Takumakai, and Shin'ei Taido, just to name a few. Then aikido itself has a bit of a nebulous web of organizations, but most of those still prefer the "aikidō" term for what they do. There's also occasionally been instructors that have left aikido and blended other things into their style that call their styles "aikijūjutsu", but they usually don't have staying power, since they are usually independents. Outside of that, there's also Danzan-ryū, which was originally a hybrid art mixing Daito-ryū, Kodokan judo, and a kung fu style or two, that was first developed in Hawaii, but has been reasonable widespread now. They might occasionally use aikijūjutsu as a technical term, but they usually just label themselves "Danzan-ryū jūjutsu". Finally, there's also a bare few well-established Japanese styles where aiki is important that might occasionally use aikijūjutsu as a technical term, but not usually as a direct description of their style: Takenouchi-ryū (best known for twin wakizashi), Kitō-ryū (one of the two main styles of Jigoro Kano before founding Kodokan judo; but this basically is only preserved separately from Kodokan at just one dojo in Indonesia), Nakamura-ha Takeda-ryū (and the other Takeda-ryū organization that recently split from them, whose name I forget), and Korindō (which usually calls what they do aikido, but they don't have a lineage connection to Aikikai nor Daitō-ryū; however, Ueshiba was friendly with their head instructor).

[@Olotito-fs3db]

Not Sure that was Aikijujutsu, He try no joint lock or takedown. He look like a karate guy!

[@lordMartiya]

The backfist got the arm... And then the follow-up hook got the ribs. I think that's what dropped the Judoka.

[@PozitivMC]

They just proved that their techniques couldn't be used in a fight. They were fighting like beginner kickboxers.

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

Traditional styles were more complete and functional than the modern sporting counterparts.

[@skipsch]

That backfist was pretty gangster

[@pastlast158]

What is exactly Okiken Jodo?

[@DouglasBuenoGomes]

Aikijujutsu with Gloves are a Prision Aikijujutsu skills are 99% Bare Handed.

[@elenchus]

they're grappling gloves, so it's fine. If I wanted to be nitpicky, and I don't, I'd say that aikido/aikijujutsu is effectively trained as a no gi style (except for perhaps breaking grips), which is to say, the presence of the gi might favor judo as compared to a no gi match. I don't think it would have altered the outcome.

[@PazCristo]

'Fist of Faith' Japanese version?

[@FightCommentary]

That, but with even more styles represented!

[@robcubed9557]

So basically an MMA match where one person is wearing a Gi and one person is wearing a hakama

[@breannestahlman5953]

1:45 Hakama

[@kenirawadi4689]

The Judo guy got an Aiki hit from the the Aikijujutsu guy. So, Aiki is real guy.

[@yohannschroo5644]

Aikijutsu traditionnal doesn't exist on this MMA fight and with this bad aikijutsu, judoka lose. It is what i say : the traditionnal jujutsu japanase and the judo are very disappoint finally.😊 I regret to say that because they are the 2 martial arts who i practice for a little long time and my passion. Disappoint. Really... 😪 But my project will be better of that...

[@jozwoz99]

The Judo guy should have won several times in the first two minutes, and would have if not for going out of bounds. Doubly impressive given size difference.

[@AceeSoul]

Good fight

[@EponaDreams-AmbientDreamscapes]

Isnt being smaller an advantage in judo? Moves are easier with a lower centre of gravity

[@cahallo5964]

What's okiken Judo? I've never heard about that, okiken is short for Okinawan Kenpo so I tried googling it and I found nothing Judo related

[@UncleBigBen]

I love your content bro. Highly recommend you may do the Korean Yatcha club fight ( 夜叉格斗)

[@FightCommentary]

Are they on KZbin?

[@K.R_Mony]

No joint lock, Just punch

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

I believe that there is no such thing as "Okiken Judo" Okiken must mean something else in here

[@LatinTraveler]

I think some may describe Aikido as a redacted form of Daito Ryu or (borrowing a soft drink term) as “Aikijujutsu Lite.”

[@elenchus]

@@LatinTraveler In a lot of ways it's like kung fu, an umbrella term. Generally I find that when people say aikido, they mean aikikai, which is fair enough, it's by far the most popular flavor. But there exist some pre-WW2 schools that are quite different, such as Yoseikan and Yoshinkan.

[@MegaRagingBunny]

At the end of the day the judo guy did some Judo and Aikido guy did none of Aikido other then the basic stance. That tells alot about their respective martial arts. Love these videos tho.

[@ssths]

I saw plenty of aikido. Not sure how you missed it.

[@elenchus]

@@ssths He's right. Not a single even basic aikido or aikijujutsu technique was attempted so far as I can tell. Using the aikijujutsu names instead of the aikido names, where they differ, I saw no attempted kote gaeshi, no uki chigai, no timbin nage, no shiho nage, no irimi nage, no hachi mawashi...it would be like a Muay Thai fighter using wrestling and jiujitsu the entire match, never throwing a single punch/elbow/kick/knee, and then saying he used a ton of Muay Thai. The judo representative wasn't much better, but he did clearly use some judo, and successfully.

[@PazCristo]

1:49-1:51 排山倒海！

[@jamesSmith-fl5wv]

The judo guy did very little judo. Maybe the gloves stopped him from grip fighting and securing the gi but he couldve done multiple leg reaps and didnt try. Not the best example of judo.

[@lewiswilliams655]

I think Okiken is short for Okinawa kenpo karate. Then he also does judo as well as a separate martial art

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Exactly. There is no such a thing as "Okiken Judo" your explanation is most fitting for now

[@bobfromdenison]

In judo, the shorter opponent has the advantage.

[@saiyanninjawarriorz]

Baki in real life 🔥

[@buddygzus]

It’s just mma, that’s just how humans fight

[@bigedwerd]

I think the Judoka just got tired and lost his balance. I'm guessing he's used to quick rounds of either throwing or being thrown. Lot of striking can be tiring. Not sure if that's exactly what happened, but he should play to his own strengths and not that of his opponent.

[@Phystle]

1:21 Holy shit what a fumble... Easy spinning armbar, man decides to... do whatever that was instead.

[@eldepavas]

"Okiken judo" looks like crappy ATA TKD.

[@hexkwondo]

The judo would have won if he had better newaza.

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

Or if he was allowed to conduct it.

[@MauricioRodriguez-ll9km]

That's mma 😂😂

[@DC-rx9sm]

One was judo friend and other i don t now but definitely not aikijujutsu. Aikijujutsu It not a sport i lts an ancient martial art. It cannot being applied tò the ring or sport combat because its letality and capacity tò make badly damage for the applied of itself

[@molostone8946]

Neither can kick or punch. It's s joke

[@user255]

Alternative title could be "TMA guys try MMA, but still needs to learn more".

[@marcelnowakowski945]

So basically most of the time they're not even using the martial art they claim to represent. ???

[@elenchus]

unfortunately yes, although you do at least see some judo from the judoka

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

What? Aikijujutsu and the original applications of Judo were striking-heavy!! That's why shen you look at a Judo vs (striking martial art or street fighter) video, you end up seeing some awesome throws that look just like the Judo demos. Judo is supposed to be used in striking situations. If the opponent is being too neutral you can easily scape or get a weapon, if they are trying too hard to go for a standing grapple, they leave themselves open to surprise striking followed by a throw or maybe more striking lol. Same thing can be said about Aikijujutsu

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

The judoka was at least using his Judo. Aikido guy not so much at all.

[@dedydet6646]

aikijujutsu & aikido have strikings but might not be taught properly

[@marcelnowakowski945]

@@elenchus Yes, very little, unfortunately.

[@acmartialarts2227]

Bullshido ryu gokyen

[@thaariqbinaziz2821]

Aiki is so trash that they can only win by weight advantaged 🤣🤣

[@ValleyDragon]

AikiJuJutsu is not the same as Aikido. And not all Aikido schools are the stereotype you think of.

[@CharlesBetancourt-iq9oe]

The shorter guy is stockier. I don't think there is a weight advantage.

[@marekmaxpabianice]

Why people join a weird art like this instead of going for an mma class, is beyond me.

[@CharlesBetancourt-iq9oe]

Which art are you talking about? Judo or Aikijutsu?