Fighting Irish Stance: Old School Strategies & Techniques

[@mateuszolesinski6169]

Who thought about the Overly Manly Man after seeing the thumbnail?

[@dmalo1999]

Mateusz Olesiński lol, I did

[@fighttips]

You mean because I was in it, right? :P

[@jamie91995]

fightTIPS can you do fight like Coban lookchaomaesaitong or enriko Kehl

[@haroldodomingo9119]

fightTIPS ahh shane i c u

[@dmalo1999]

fightTIPS Beautiful comeback!!!👌🏼

[@DaveCollins123]

Under the London Prize ring rules there was extensive grappling, particularly throws. Therefore you needed a long guard to keep the opponent out of grappling range....

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

From what I've seen from Oz Martin, clinching was very prevalent.

[@MrQwerty2524]

All it does is expose your legs. I doubt that is the reason..

[@discipleofkhorne9472]

SgtGo London prize ring rules forbade any grasping below the belt.

[@MrQwerty2524]

Disciple of Khorne Oh, okay.

[@discipleofkhorne9472]

SgtGo That and they didn't lean back like Shane is doing, they stayed fairly upright.

[@reignorshine.]

oh shit so in Sherlock holmes when Downey is throwing those palm strikes it's historically accurate who'd a thunk

[@jeff1204abc]

thats Bartitsu

[@laskey84]

yes

[@tombstonejackson]

Robert Downey was using 100% Wing Chun techniques in the Sherlock movies, he's been a practioner for some years and is quite advanced.

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

I have never heard anything about palms in English boxing except for this video. I feel like the sources Shane used might have been a little dubious (not his fault).

[@TheTaterTotP80]

Owlblocks David: Nah, palms were used extensively in British boxing on the mainland and in Ireland. There's some good Irish stuff on it too.

[@AndoMierzwa]

Awesome, sir! Everything old is new again! So many styles of martial arts got watered down and earned bad reputations... but there's no doubt that the true old school guys knew what they were doing. Thanks for sharing your research!

[@fighttips]

So true. Same thing with music, too!

[@AndoMierzwa]

Glad to know I'm not the only one listening to Gregorian chants!

[@schleybailey]

Pugilism is pretry cool

[@chriso1585]

Shane loves MOUNTING MEN til they give in!!

[@dewimcdews2935]

Is that semen on his chin???

[@fortitudinemethonorem4088]

A couple of things I would like to add, depending on what era with what rules, (broughton, Queensbury) grappling was a big part of what was known then as pugilism (ex: cross buttocks), they did punch with their knuckles (vertical fist elbows down), the hand closest to the body was positioned there to protect the "Mark". You mentioned Mendoza, interesting fact he lost a fight due to his long hair. His opponent held him by the hair (legal grappling at that time) and pummeled him. Thanks for your vids.

[@Hibernicus1968]

This is interesting. I had a discussion with someone in my Jeet Kune Do class (and Bruce Lee based a lot of JKD on Western boxing because he recognized how effective its punches were), after he observed me holding my hands farther out. He told me I was doing it wrong and adopted the modern, orthodox boxing stance with elbows tucked in and the hands guarding the face. I pointed out that stance came out of the change to the Marquis of Queensbury rules and it's present-day descendant rules, and the use of gloves. The older stance was used in bare knuckle days, and there was a reason for that. The other person maintained that the modern version is categorically better, as if progress marches invariably and inexorably toward the better. If it's newer, it's more advanced, it's better. Period. That was his assertion. I pointed out that, no, things aren't quite that simple. The modern stance is a product of two key things: the rules of the sport, and the use of big padded boxing gloves that act like shields and thus allow you to defend with your hands closer in. Take the gloves away, and you have less surface area to block with, and your opponents smaller, ungloved hands also more easily slip past your defense. So in the old days, they had to intercept those incoming punches farther out. People usually do things a certain way in response to the conditions that have to face. Change those conditions, and it changes the way they do things. And people a hundred or two hundred years ago were just as smart as people today, and just as capable of figuring out the best way to address a particular challenge. If the stance was different under the old bare knuckle rules, there was a good reason for that. The modern stance is not INHERENTLY better in any categorical sense, it's just better under the conditions the modern sport of boxing is fought under. It all depends on context. The modern boxing stance also puts the left leg well forward (or right if you're a southpaw), because it allows you to really drive off that back leg and get more power in your punches. And yet when boxers fight kickboxers, the kickboxer kicks the $#!% out that leg because it's such an easy target. I wish I could remember the fight I saw where the boxer was knocking the kickboxer down over and over in the first couple of rounds, because he was a better puncher and the boxing stance lets you punch with great power. But the kickboxer quickly figured out how to stay back out of punching range, and use his kick, with had a longer reach, to pound that forward left leg over and over again. Every time he closed the distance to punch, BAM, he'd take another shot to the left leg. And within another couple of rounds, the boxer could hardly stand up, and went on to lose the fight. Coming from a sport with no kicking, the boxer had no defense whatever against his opponent's kicks. The modern boxing stance is ideal for the modern sport of boxing, and its optimized for the rules and equipment -- and limitations -- of that sport. Change the conditions, and it may no longer be what works best.

[@slaughterhouse5585]

Thanks for a thoughtful analysis.

[@Moostafa78]

Mate I'm not even gonna try and read that lol

[@Hibernicus1968]

@@Moostafa78 Not my problem.

[@bear5945]

@@Moostafa78 Are you cognitively impaired?

[@Gieszkanne]

But now 5 years later when Bare Knuckle Fights get popular again, we can see that they still dont fight like in the old days.

[@HeySkipper]

So interesting. I've always wondered why the stance was so unusual. Thank you for doing the research and publishing this👍 a big thumbs up

[@therealnickynurotic8930]

It works

[@NotAGrabbaghoul]

I'd love to see Fighting Irish in Tekken or some shit! Hell even Mortal Kombay, Street Fighter, or a Martial Arts Flick

[@redwolfe7049]

RJ Foyles I'm all for that.

[@scorpion147able]

Steve Fox

[@scorpion147able]

He had a sweep kick but I think everyone has one, as well as one jump kick. No problem man

[@NightmirrorXx]

Also a stomp followed by a hard punch.

[@ciaranscully771]

+scorpion147able he's just a boxer tho

[@kangobango2115]

Used this style during a spar, I felt manly as well as victorious!

[@COhD4]

why not make a "evolution" video for boxing stance and style for example and show early technique and the logic behind it, then show later and later stances in relation to the original. would be very interesting. would be a good way to deconstruct technique down to the core and enables viewers to understand rather than to mimic. no?

[@KittyBoom360]

that and also do fighting stances from around the world. more videos like this on fighting stances, please.

[@Viper-sn5cx]

Here here!

[@robertroberts3669]

Could you show all the dirty tricks from back in the day? You used gangs of new York as an example. So, a good example would be fish hooks and ear biting.

[@fighttips]

Ahh great suggestion!

[@CaptainJacksIsland]

I remember there being an account way back in Greece or Rome. In a professional fight, some guy "crab clawed" a guy in the stomach (grabbing the space in the middle of his abdomen with his fingers and the area between the abs and obliques with his thumb) and pulled the muscle out of place. The guy's intestines shifted and he had a very painful death. Can't remember if it was ruled cheating or not.

[@williamprice5079]

I was just thinking about the fish hook from that movie the other day. Isn't that just a really easy way to get your finger bitten off?

[@Faileduserattempt]

William Price They can't bite your finger off since it's hooked to the inside of their cheek, pulling hard outwards.. Most won't have time to react to your finger entering their mouth either.. But there's always a risk!

[@arthas640]

i keep picturing moe syzlack and his "stinger" glove, a boxing glove covered in barbed wire :P

[@MrPrimitiveman]

Don't forget when the early champion James "deaf" Burke taught his system that a large part came from fencing. The lead arm can also parry incoming blows similar to a sword. When you read accounts about the bare knuckle bouts broken arms were very common. When you pull your arms in to cover up its effective against a gloves large surface area. Against the small, hard area of a fist or palm you risk breaking the forearm. Elbow braced against the body and the fist braced against the head the only give was the forearm. Great channel thanks for all the excellent info

[@pcgaming4944]

I say, put em up ol' chap

[@fighttips]

By George!

[@christinepickering9896]

Have at you!

[@hitroy1054]

Put up your dukes!

[@highandloose7701]

Is everyone having a bully day?!

[@bigg_chico]

"Put em up put em up put em uuuuup"😂😂

[@rushedandlost]

Great to see the old style of fighting reemerge. This lost style has always been very interesting to me. Please post more information on these great moves in the future. Also some info on the teachings of Carl Cestari and his teachings would be very informative . Great subject , Thanks

[@wushuwillie5184]

Many of these strategies & techniques are also used in Mantis, Hung Gar, Shaolin GongFu & Wing Chun. Thanks for the video, really enjoyed it.

[@codiserville593]

I bet you're an Avatar - Last Airbender fan

[@faizokhan187]

You don't deserve "dislikes". Love your work Shane. May God bless you.

[@fighttips]

Ah thanks so much :) But no one is ever universally liked, and that's okay!

[@abhaitanwar]

Always stay strong and positive though! :)

[@faizokhan187]

***** Shoukran (thanks) alot Akhi (brother) for taking time and replying, that just showed how nice person you are. Love from Middle East.

[@Hon_cb1kr]

well that is why Asian traditional Martial Arts concentrate a lot on conditioning the hand and knuckles. Well conditioned hands can be surprisingly resilient.

[@melchaios]

Every punching martial art conditions your hands whether you intend it or not, mythical techniques like punching rocks and other equally unsafe stuff for conditioning won't make you less prone to injury, and it can actually have the opposite effect (making you more prone to injury). I believe shane actually has a video mythbusting that notion that "the harder the conditioning, the better".

[@acaristic93]

Yeah you can condition your hands and various practitioners of Asian Martial Arts do it sensibly. However people all over the world like to jump into that by doing things like punching concrete walls which really just fucks up your hand. Hell,when you start off,even using big boxing gloves is tough on your hands when you're punching the bag,let alone anything else. Conditioning is great,and if you ever intend to use fists in a 'real life fight' you should do it. Just be aware that you have to do it very carefully and at a slow pace(in terms of years) to do it without fucking up your hands and being sure you do it right(plus it takes slightly different eating habits than otherwise).

[@Hon_cb1kr]

melchaios well not if you wrap your hands. The skin stays soft and wrists are weak when fighting bare knuckle. Modern western sports fighting don't do any wrist strengthening exercises and that is a fact.

[@yuwmelon3868]

I guess today almost every boxing coach will tell you to start everything with the jab. You just don't hit with full force recklessly. Sport apllication aside, you'd better hit hard using only the elbow, instead of the fist.

[@melchaios]

***** Actually the fact is it does strenghten your wrist and hand. Even with all the padding, repeated trauma will create the bone remodeling that implies the conditioning you talk about. Could you condition your hands beyond that? well that is not so easy to answer. "Extra" conditioning while it could make your hands a little bit stronger (not that much though) in theory, it could very well as easily be detrimental. The fact is that the microfracture mechanism behind knuckle conditioning must not be abused, certain degree of microfractures with calcium deposition is OK and does have benefits, however if you start to abuse it then it has the opposite effect, making your bones a mess of microfracture callusses that actually make the structure weaker. Not only that, but when you get older you'll start suffering from artrhitis, which depending on the severity could be incapacitating. The notion that only asian self defence oriented martial arts condition their hands correctly is a myth, there aren't any real studies comparing different fighters from different disciplines bone density to support that claim. And from a medical and sports medicine point of view, hand conditioning by punching bags with proper protection is the way to go, everything else is overkill and could be hazzardous

[@thelastcarnival]

Tried it. Doesn't work. Surgery's next Tuesday.

[@danielgarib4866]

r/wooosh

[@vlLEGTxSQUADX]

Wuh happend

[@tsalagiayastigi1676]

I Want Makoto To Cradle Me In Her Strong Arms 🤣🤣🤣

[@juliantreidiii]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIuZcoFurbSKrJI

[@lilpoop8133]

He said it doesn’t work in street fights

[@Jong23]

Looks almost like a Conor McGregor stance

[@kyokushinavocadosoup3595]

John White bullshit

[@awsome7user]

+KyokushinAvocado he kinda right

[@kyokushinavocadosoup3595]

***** just because he's Irish doesn't mean shit....McGregor is switching between the bladed karate stance and the traditional boxing stance with his shoulder up and his other hand down...or something in between

[@kaguth]

I agree. He doesn't keep the hands in the same position but the way he often stands totally upright and slightly tilted back is like this.

[@ersankuneri2689]

It is actually very similar version of this

[@Jameskeith1972]

Heck yeah it works! After years of instructing martial arts, this is where it’s at! Palm strikes penetrate muck more than punching. The beauty of this style involves safety first. It’s definitely geared towards street fighting. Nice! Thanks for sharing!

[@NicholasRachuna]

My uncle was a boxer in federal prison. He used a similar style but not exactly this. His footwork was good and he would block with his forearms in a sweeping motion and counter with amazing speed and accuracy. He was undefeated in prison and on the streets and I witnessed him use his hands in many of fights over the years as He lived in my house growing up and he and my dad rolled with a rough crowd of bikers and convicts. He was a short guy but extremely muscular and well conditioned from over ten years of bodybuilding and prison life. He was fearless, smart, had absolutely zero tolerance and would kick someone’s ass for disrespecting woman, children or the elderly. If someone were to come at him I was never worried, I just thought I myself “ oh shit, this guy has no idea what’s coming “ hahahhaha the good ol’ days. I miss him!

[@karlbyrne6021]

I miss him to.

[@felipefloresrojas6008]

Cool

[@sugmasigma]

None of this happened

[@wandered_rogue22]

@@sugmasigmahow the fuck you know?

[@WaylonMoone]

3:18 I wanted to put this out there, That move he did and said exactly “Block the move and then use Your knuckle to swing afterwards” In tikwondo that I learned for 5 years used the EXACT same moves we just call it Tigers paws and claw but it’s exactly how You said and worked it. I really like how some martial arts moves, punches and kicks are similar to each other.

[@blockmasterscott]

We have the exact same hand guard in choy LI fut. Even the kwa(swinging backfist) is the same.

[@melchaios]

original bareknuckle stance and punching technique in general is very simmilar to traditional asian styles.

[@morganmoose]

Great Vid! I'll occasionally explain this to my 4th and 5th grade students why the old stance mattered so much in the past. Broken hands/fingers were a serious deal when you made a living working with your hands. Keep up the fine work!

[@jg3000]

In London Prize rules boxing wrestling was allowed. However nothing on the ground was allowed. Everything had to be done from your feet. So throws, kicks, headlocks and even holds were allowed.

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

Grabbing below the waist too, right?

[@paperplane3810]

Jg3000 aa

[@iroscoe]

Hip throws were very much part of the sport and when the Irish Champ Dan Jack Langan took on Tom Spring at Worcester in 1824 the reports from the time credit Langans better grappling with keeping him in the fight until eventually succumbing to the precise striking of his taller opponent .

[@uriahnavarro7904]

I know this is a bit old, but I think you need to make an update to this. Grappling was heavily incorporated in classical pugilism-- as was hair pulling, kicking, and even more brutal tactics, some of which you mentioned. Vertical fists and knuckles were the primary means by which blows were scored. In addition to throwing traditional overhands, straights, and Jabs (straight lefts or lead offs in this day, thrown with power and knockdown/out intent), they also threw Casting hooks and Choppers which were forms of backfists essentially. Sure, they were mindful of breaking their hands on the forehead, but this did not change the means by which blows were generally delivered. What source material states they struck primarily with palms?

[@DCFixxer]

Shane, for someone who didn't know much about this stance, you looked like a pro demonstrating it!

[@InfamousAustinT0]

"Grappling was not allowed".... Do you know about bare knuckle boxing history? Much of bare knuckle boxing back in the day allowed for takedowns, stomping or kicking the opponent who was on the ground, sometimes they got involved in certain holds after the takedown, shin-kicking or "purring" as they called it was allowed. Bare knuckle boxing in the West isn't quite what we think of these days. Eventually rules started changing such as gloves, no takedowns below to the waist to no takedowns at all, and many more changes in which at a certain point became boxing as we know it. All of that was perfectly legal not even 200 years.

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

I think the rules started getting made after the first fatality.

[@InfamousAustinT0]

The first fatality happened long before the rules came into play. It has more to do with champions.

[@Philweasel]

Grappling was mostly banned because it was boring. You allow for a full range of techniques, and fights either last seconds or hours. The crowds naturally gravitated to promotions that introduced rules encouraging interesting, competitive fights.

[@vonclap]

Correct.....this guy is talking rubbish!!!

[@weedan13]

as a proud irish man i approve of this video kep up the amazing work shane

[@wesselvis5629]

I want more of this, Shane. This is great stuff!!

[@fighttips]

Ah great to hear, will do!

[@chillbill6613]

hey man I really like this stanza could you do more video's of this stanza

[@urantia487]

I think it work. It still retain the traditional martial art concept of blocking or shielding against strikes.

[@pranakhan]

If you get a chance, check out the book,"King of the Gypsies", by Bartley Gorman and Peter Walsh. A biography which reaches into the history of turn of the century Irish and English bareknuckle boxing. Nice job looking comfortable throwing those attacks as well! They should get you on a movie set.

[@MrThorain]

I'm going to look for this- thanks!

[@poundscake3441]

I love videos like this. As a life long student of Muay Thai, it's always great to see where things started. A lot like firearms, when we look at the origin of things, we can see and understand why we do things they way they are today. Great vid brother.

[@frostfreerunning690]

i wonder if sherlock holmes was the first one to change the stance like on that movie with robert downey junior

[@RaulRamirez-qq4td]

Frost Freerunning I was thinking the same thing, had a lot of wing Chun in it

[@rickybushy]

I did a bit of Wing Chun once and instructor said to imagine hands like an old school boxers stance

[@R1nji]

Yeah, but afaik that comes from the fact that RDJ does Wing Chun himself. I think I saw it in an interview once.

[@robertbryant2945]

the british were big time boxers back in the day and probably brought some wing chun back from Hong Kong in 1700ds

[@TheMicnpark]

Frost Freerunning sup, the Robert junior fight, he uses Wing Chun Kung fu, u can search on the Internet. And Robert is a wing Chun practitioner for real. Wing Chun is the first martial art of Bruce lee

[@InformationIsTheEdge]

I clicked on this thinking it would be a total riff on old school boxing and was pleasantly surprised to see the subject given it's due respect. Thumb up!

[@rhysnichols8608]

This is actually so cool! I'd love to see a proper old time tough guy fight a modern MMA guy

[@OnyxXThePunch]

Planning on transferring into MMA for that reason

[@gabrielmartinez5325]

But it also depends on the rules under which the fight is done, because in those days, in many fights you could kick the balls, grab your opponent's hair to hit him, headbutt, bite, attack the eyes, etc. A fighter of old bare knuckle boxing under the rules of modern MMA would be very limited.

[@jonnyhatter35]

wow, this is really illuminating. For a bareknuckle approach this makes a ton of sense.

[@Gatekeepersis08]

I love it, love the different styles and way of thinking

[@fighttips]

Thanks man!

[@DAC2791]

Your videos are very very helpful. I'm an amateur kickboxer and your info on certain workouts and Health tips are extremely helpful. Thank you for these uploads

[@JesusHernandez-lm1bs]

Hey Shane which martial art did you start off with? Sorry if you've already answered this question

[@somemysteriousguy7114]

i believed he started taekwondo when he was 9

[@xaviero9821]

Triggering Seb I'm pretty sure it was tee Kwan do.

[@fighttips]

You guys know me too well, haha. Yep, at 9 I started Taekwondo. 15 I started Muay Thai. And at 20 I started Boxing.

[@somemysteriousguy7114]

+fightTIPS SHANE REPLIED!!

[@xaviero9821]

somemysteriousguy Shane always replies

[@sebastiansebbysebas]

Shane, I love your vids. I'm a boxer myself and I can honestly say that your techniques have further improved mine and my overall fighting knowledge. I always recommend your videos when showing people the basics. best of luck in your business and always good vibes

[@whoamiagain123]

First and Irish

[@fighttips]

;)

[@michaelkeha]

My grand dad taught me to fight in that stance when I boxed and it was fantastic as a way to throw your opponent off guard by switching from normal boxing stance to this stance more so when your someone like me who is not the fastest man on his feet or with his hands but hits like a train getting your opponent to over extend when they trying to figure out how they can actually bop you in the head is fantastic to give them a resounding hook in return

[@paulbadman8509]

Shane, please make a video on traditional karate stance.

[@varanid9]

Which one? Neko Ashi Dachi? Sanchin Dachi? Kiba Dachi?

[@ddeino]

Karate stances are not actually fighting guard stances but weight translation movements for grappling, joint manipulation, throwing, striking and more. The traditional fighting stance was called "meotode" (lit. "husband and wife hands") and is something in the middle between regular boxing guard and the video old style guard. It is not well understood in today karate and it is performed with both open hands or closed fists.

[@ddeino]

www.geocities.ws/karatejmh/Pictures/ChosinChibana.jpg

[@pentassugliamario6914]

@@varanid9 just kamai

[@TheNewton777]

This was actually really fascinating information. You are the first who i have seen to cover this topic. Keep doing what you are doing!

[@andreiniculaita1]

they fight like that because they are drunk

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

English prizefighter professionals were all drunk?

[@massman1216]

Owlblocks David Yes

[@lukeism2]

Owlblocks David it's possible. BAS used to fight drunk

[@andreiniculaita1]

Owlblocks David if they were irish they were drunk :p

[@dhickey769]

Luke Petersen

[@jotarokujo1171]

I genuinely appreciate how short and informative the video is but i just cant stop chuckling at 0:28, it looks like an Adonis bar audition submission

[@tsalagiayastigi1676]

Watch Hard Times with Charles Bronson and James Coburn..😎

[@jesser8369]

You had me at palms, I study Wing Chun with a lilll Muay Thai sprinkled in and I agree with multiple punches to the skull being iffy. Your palms can take and receive much more force repeatedly to hard surfaces safely. The beautiful thing is there are a variety of palms. Fuk Sao "whip hand" is a forward strike using the outside base of the palm, below the pinky (palm facing down). There is another move where you use the same surface, but in a "inward strike" with the palm up. Then you got your straight palm (finger tips up, forward strike to head), side palms (Same as a straight palm, but finger tips are pointed out and strike area rotates slightly), and low palm which is a side palm but strike is to the abdomen.

[@Fernandez3995]

PUT 'EM UP!

[@MrJflomario]

Fernandez3995 Yeah!

[@s1k2y3e4]

I heard a Russian boxing trainer say, “there is no wrong way to box but some ways happen to be more effective than others.” I would imagine the techniques had to be effective to some extent or else why would they use them? This video really makes me wonder what old school stuff should be reintegrated into what we practice now, especially with the grow popularity of bare knuckle. It sucks that when we stop practicing something for long enough we lose a good bit of our understanding about what still would be useful or what an old school technique might have evolved into. Thought provoking video in the worst kind of way.Thanks Shane for flipping the “I wonder”switch on in my brain. I’m gonna go punch myself in the face now. Happy new year!

[@MrKevin9856]

I love this style, thanks for making this video shane, I do think this style would work in a street fight if you learn it and it's more of a defensive power style so it's perfect for people that are not very fast, shane can you make a video on trying to beat an opponent that's really good at boxing footwork and one on using a over hand right and a left hook in a combo like in that movie southpaw that guy uses a over hand right and a left hook one right after the other and I wanted to know the pros and cons of using those punches like that thanks again bro

[@melchaios]

it was a pretty brutal and effective fighting style, with its most violent iteration being a variation called "rough and tumble boxing". it was a very vicious version that placed emphasis on gouging eyes and disfiguring your opponent as much as you could, they even used bites and fishhooks to rip parts of the face

[@kblkbl]

It may actually be better for street fights than modern boxing. All techniques on modern boxing are based on you wearing gloves, tight blocking and shoulder rolling may not be that good of an idea in a bare knuckle situation.

[@IBoughtItMyself]

Really clear and respectful explanation of something I've wondered about for decades.

[@Bo-Dog]

Charles Bronson skilled at this brawling style(Hard Times). 🙋

[@fighttips]

Hard Times! Great movie

[@Bo-Dog]

A classic🎥

[@ZENIGMATV]

The bald opponent “hey you’re pretty good” (blocks with the top of his head)

[@DemitriusChilds]

Most people are right handed so they use the left for blocking. Also they would hobble back and forth and sideways. It was to catch haymakers and power blows overheads while the right counter jab your jabs. Also it was designed to fight against multi people back then. Irish vs Italians. The knuckles were used for the stomachs to make them wobble then you hit them with the smackeroos. Wpix channels. Thank you

[@lukeism2]

Conor McGregor stands like that with open palms when he hasn't got his hands down

[@robloxgod6945]

I think his is for different reasons and is just different though. He does that to gauge the range, and because he likes to use leg kicks.

[@ThaBurnnahKidd]

He does it because he's Irish and wants to pay homage to his culture. Also because he thinks it looks cool. It's more sentimental than functional in his case.

[@buncle4339]

@@ThaBurnnahKidd not because he looks cool , but it's been proving to be an affective stance

[@unkn0wnrge189]

Oh thanks you changed my life after learned this with you, my mom never complained again of me not going to school

[@RemoBongo530]

"Fishhooked by a sprat..."

[@seanwood4502]

Fascinating stuff I did wonder how boxing evolved from the old days but never thought I would know. Shows how much passion you have for martial arts to study a form this old 🙂

[@matthewhenderson1310]

That gate block is similar to bong sau or man sau in wing chun

[@ms-06fzakuii53]

Does Muay Thai use it too with the framing long guard/figure four guard? Or is that different?

[@matthewhenderson1310]

dankgankmon the long guard is the same as a man sau but man sau is mainly used against the neck of the opponent when used as a frame

[@rickybushy]

I was thinking similar

[@joshspawn161]

long guard is not a block for a specific strike it is to keep yourself at distance when throwing elbows

[@joshspawn161]

The only real difference is the bend in the elbow opposed to straight arm for Muay Thai

[@FelFree]

Vary Old style of fighting. .. kind of cool and beautiful once understood. .. thank you for teaching. .. Peace and God Bless

[@cuchulainn1659]

Is this a private fight or can anyone join in - old Irish proverb.

[@stevenwilliams24]

It got told to me that long ago more body shots were used to save the knuckles. Loved the video. I didn't know much of what you told us. It makes sense.

[@psommorr]

What about a Pankratrist's stance?

[@fighttips]

Very similar, yes! Also similar to how Royce Gracie fought back in the early UFC's

[@stansmith2071]

this is BEST place to learn real boxing,,, well done young man! superb work

[@LeshaunDinglenut77]

stan smith best place to learn real boxing is the gym mate

[@andreiciobirca832]

Shane do you have any Irish I you? Apart from your name being Irish?

[@mr.orangeaide5260]

well if his names irish then yes probably. also, Philadelphia

[@kenansabic2901]

I always thought he seemed a bit Irish.

[@stephenhennessy4220]

Andrei Ciobirca I'm Irish and have never heard the name fazen till this guy

[@mohamedog1]

Andrei Ciobirca yh he spoke about it in one of recent vidoes

[@SupernovaKANGAROO]

i think he meant the name "shane" being irish. "fazen" is austrian.

[@guachingman]

I dont know if it works or not but you did a great job with the vintage face impresion. Recently subbed and taking it one video at a time, so much useful info!! Thanks for such generosity!

[@dosomethingaboutit3218]

, County Laios Ireland

[@fionncahill5706]

Do something about it I’m from laois

[@Localnomadmovies]

Nice video. My grandmother’s Uncle had the longest boxing match (his name was Jack Burke) went 110 rounds with Andy Bowen in the late 1800s. I loved his stance. Very similar to wing chun (something I’ve cross trained for years with Kickboxing and BJJ). It’s all fighting people ! OSU !!

[@frenikfri]

Shane why are you making a video about something you clearly don´t know anything about? 1. The main target WAS the body because of the bare fists. Especially the "mark" which is the solar plexus. This explains the position of the rear hand/arm which protects the "mark". 2. They did strike with the knuckles. They landed the shots with the three lower knuckles in a diagonal/vertical manner. Every old boxing manual from the bare knuckle boxing era teaches this. 3. Grappling WAS allowed. Depending on the area different techniques were allowed but in general wrestling was a huge part of pugilism. Which this stance is also a result of.

[@hkfitness56]

Bro, shane has more knowledge and experience than you stop tryna act like u know what ur talking about. stfu

[@OnyxXThePunch]

@Zachary Desroches this guy's actually correct

[@tariqxl]

Props for the Philly Shell reference, it's how I know your for real with boxing and not just a MMA. Subbed for that right there. I've been messing with using a Tae Kwon Do back-stance (I'm a converted southpaw, all power up front) and with a Philly Shell gaurd. But only from home as I've not trained in a while due to a string of injuries. Had some no-contact sparring with a friend and former regional boxing champ, so no kicks, just out in the street, possibly after a few too many, sparring. But I found with the lateral shoulders the left hand is hidden behind the chin and harder to see coming, I woulda had him with the 1st 2 shots, both straight lefts, quite McGregor'esque.

[@nawfsidereviews6029]

What'd you read to figure all of this out?

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

There are some historical sources. English Martial Arts is a channel that has a slightly different interpretation of classical pugilism; I think it might have listed sources for reading.

[@acaristic93]

The channel also often enough links towards a web page where you can join a course(in a way similar to Shane's fight gym) and see various instructional videos,read books etc. But even without paying for that you can follow the youtube channel and learn+there are some books on this(also mentioned on that channel). Oz(the creator of said channel) also often enough posts in a facebook group about it all too. :) Check out 'UK HEMA - Historical European Martial Arts in the United Kingdom' for that.

[@lukencrowheart3829]

So let me guess this straight, you are telling me that guy ask for money to show you what should be historical and cultural patrimony? He is asking people to pay him for teaching them something he learned over PUBLIC historical manuals? That could not be right... or is he teaching HIS way of understanding? In both ways is deplorable.

[@acaristic93]

He's asking for money so he can continue teaching. It's not vast sums spent on luxury and personal pleasures,as far as I'm aware it's used to buy other manuals(I agree they should just be publically available but often times are not and you have to buy/rent the rights to use them). He also spends that money on the space in which he teaches and the equipment he and his students use. Why's that unfair of him?He wouldn't be able to teach people otherwise.He's not going to create money out of thin air that he can use for the space,equipment etc. (and within the capitalist system you do need that,sadly that's how things are).

[@kekoajk05]

Luken Crowheart so is it also deplorable for my accountant to charge me for doing my taxes? That whole process is publicly available information.. If both parties willingly enter into a mutual exchange (as in the consumer receives an expected product or service as advertised and the seller gets compensated as advertised) then how can this also be deplorable?

[@MadMartialArts]

hell yeah man i love the way the palm heels are thrown. really driving it in there. it can make for more compact strikes as well. i like how you can push with the palm heel, versus plain old impact. great for creating space. throw it right at his chest/shoulder if they're too far in like a one inch punch.

[@fjficm]

wow I like this, the irish r smart

[@phoenix-kenzodapathaan5568]

Interesting 1st video watched and subscribed to your channel 👍🏽

[@PrimoMilk]

Looks like wing Chun.

[@houseoflyrics8191]

thought that too

[@mariosahli4834]

PREM SADIA More like Bartitsu

[@axelstone3131]

Was also think the same

[@mr.orangeaide5260]

way more similarities than we like to pretend

[@locogiomotocroz4031]

yeah but this defense seems a little bit more open and effective. However I think wing chun punches might be more explosive and effective.

[@bennetla10]

That's.... actually really legit. I've often wondered about that stance, but as he explains when you're fighting bare-knuckle that stance makes a lot more sense.

[@captainireland4153]

Why? Because we're hard as fuck, that's why

[@feckingegg9146]

lmao

[@tottenhamhotspurish]

Captain Ireland4 It's called the fighting Irish stance, but it was actually made in England.

[@brentpeake4236]

They did punch using knuckles but they use to condition the hell out of their fists and forearms. Check out old school bare knuckle boxing with the late Carl Cestari and you will see why they fought the way they did. Carl did extensive research and training in the old school stuff and it is brilliant to watch. He explains the do's and dont's of the old school way in great detail. Amasing to see his take on it. Highly recommended.

[@davidrivas6412]

By watching this video I kinda think you look part Irish

[@manuelminch7184]

Great video Shane keep it em coming! This is the best channel on KZbin

[@Dave_Menz_p4p_number_1]

idk where you got your info from about not using knuckles but your dead wrong

[@Bless3dWithACurse]

He's actually right. If you're throwing punches at the face, you have to remember that there are bones in the skull. Bone on bone contact? Good game your fingers. If you're going ungloved, using your palms is much safer. Don't believe me? make a fist and throw a light uppercut on your chin. Feel the sharpness of that chin bone against your fingers and tell me all your fingers would be alright when throwing a full force uppercut. Same with the cheek bone and jaw.

[@Dave_Menz_p4p_number_1]

You obviously havent seen modern day bare knuckle boxing

[@mattybt400]

Robert - you are absolutely right.They did of course use knuckles - almost exclusively. Did they break their hands - yes - all the time.This has been noted over and over in old books and is a key reason for the invention f gloves and the formulation of Queensbury rules.More bro science on the internet folks.

[@brazelephantman]

*you're dead wrong.....

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

That's why pugilists threw a lot of straight punches with a vertical fist. Better structure. And probably why the solar plexus region ("the mark") was a preferred location if possible.

[@Wolfiemlm]

Wow man, always thought this style was just a joke. It's great that you've brought a video out about it, nice job!

[@BlueRoseRocketBand2]

plus if you do knuckle to face the upward angles will help from hitting forehead. toughening hands and palms works, but there's no hurrying it. And lets face it , the mufflers were for the hands! Great vid!

[@TheBullOfLewisham]

Thursday 7th March 2024. 20.37pm. "Dear Sir. Good-evening. How are you? I trust you are well. Thank you, for your educational video, on why old school Boxers stood like, the way they did. It did make sense. Thank you, for that." Yours Respectfully. The Bull of Lewisham. 🐂

[@greenmonk]

it's very interesting how many of the "no gloves/wraps" boxing styles have very similar techniques, stances, and methodologies. (i.e. pugilism, wing chun, tiger shaolin, karate, etc.).

[@giuliogalli1164]

as a Wing chun practitioner I made the same consideration :)

[@simonpc123]

also that low rear hand/arm was to guard 'the knock' or the diaphragm as it was understood that punching to the head could be devastating to the hand, breaking it and rendering it useless for the rest of the fight but punching to the diaphragm was less dangerous, with regards to damage self-inflicted, for the striker and could end the fight abruptly.

[@80077655]

This was an interesting video. I do have a couple of comments. I think the reason for the eventual switch to the overhand (or neutral) stance vs. underhanded was the better ergonomics of the former. An overhand or neutral rotation is a more natural posture and lends itself to more natural movement. To understand this, the next time you retrieve something from the refrigerator, try doing it underhanded. Fully extending your arm while your knuckles are pointed down is uncomfortable. Furthermore, the overhand position allows you to generate more power from a jab, cross, or hook. The only punch you're better aligned for with an underhand stance would be an uppercut. Since most fighters through many more jabs, crosses, and hooks than uppercuts, an overheand or neutral position is preferable. Finally, overhand positioning allows for better use of the hands in catching or parrying an opponent's punches.

[@Ken19700]

Grapelling was allowed right up until the Marquess of Queensberry rules were implemented. There were several stances, three that I know of. In this stance the back hand protects the sternum, so your opponent can't wind you.

[@Theguy.fromthething]

we used to have bare knuckle fights like this in high school, and it definitely comes in handy (art the right time) in a street fight. It makes for a very awkward rhythm to attack against if done right.

[@zerrowolf6747]

Fascinating! Makes alot of sense considering the lack of gloves.

[@miguelramirez5856]

I have to say,Shane,you are very informative and awesome.

[@TheKitchenerLeslie]

The stance is similar to Wing Chun but uses closed fists. A big reason is bone structure alignment and using the natural flow of the joints and lining them up at their strongest points.

[@team1t.v.team1familyfitnes66]

Great Video and breakdown. Love your reference to Bas! I had forgotten his reference on his strike series videos.

[@fighttips]

Thank you! Yes, Bas has taught me so much in the fighting world.

[@joshlamb8163]

I come from a long line of Irish and English bare knuckle fighters. I have been taught many principles of the art, while being handed down an oral history of where it came from. While you are on the right track, I hope I can add to the conversation, from the oral history that I was told while learning these principles. It is said that boxing was invented in Greece (by Sparta), but perfected in the U.K. But how did this art make it's way to the U.K. When Greece fell, Sparta fell, and there was massive immigration of the Spartan's into Europe. Spartan women were seen as prize nannies, to Celts and Germanic tribes for their philosophies on how to groom men. Essentially there was a mix of cultures and Europe adopted Sparta's culture of scientific fighting. long story short, the Spartan's brought pankration to the U.k., which is where Catch wrestling and boxing come from. While Catch Wrestling was invented in In 1871, by J. G. Chambers the principles that it was derived from were from the art of Pankration. So how did the Brits perfect boxing, why wouldn't the Spartans have perfected boxing. The Spartans didn't put a huge emphasis on boxing because it was apparently evident that wrestling was the dominate martial art. Hence, in every boxing match boxers often resort to a clinch, which comes from wrestling. Without getting to deep in the subject the Spartans would use kickboxing to set up a takedown. Today, we look at Britain as one of the economic capital's of the world. This wasn't always the case. Because the U.K. is so small they were often invaded by different countries. Due to these invasions much of the military was wiped out. At this time the king had no other option but to make it mandatory that the commoners practiced martial training so many days a week for so many hours. While the U.K. did learn the grappling of pankration, (which shows through the many different forms of wrestling that spurred up in the U.K. over the centuries.) They also put an emphasis on the stand up part of the game. Which is how scientific fighting lost the name pankration, and was divided into grappling and boxing. You ask if bareknuckle boxing is as good of a self defense as queens rules boxing. It was so good it was made illegal. It was much more common for people to die in competitions and street fights, before queens rules boxing than it is today. To really understand bareknuckle boxing we have to define the different settings in which it was used. In the classic street fight anything goes from biting, hair pulling, eye gouging, throws, kicks, submissions and basically everything a Spartan would use. Physical duals were different. Usually the agreed parties would agree to a set of rules, yet they could agree to no rules, sometimes weapons would be agreed upon. If there was a significant size difference in whoever was having the dispute, often the bigger man would allow the smaller man some sort of weapon. The final decision usually depended on the magnitude of the disagreement. In a prize fighting event, the rules could be changed from town to town, but basically the fights were the classic stand up, no action on the ground, but clinching and throws were usually allowed. While you are one hundred percent right that there were a lot more techniques in B.K. boxing that used a all of the different edges of the hand including the palm, a big misconception is that the lead hand always was thrown palm up. Also while we are aware of how easy it is to break a hand, it is commonly overlooked the actual conditioning the hands went threw in B.K. training. Gripping exercises will cause bones in the hand to gain density, also hitting hard objects will cause miniature fractures within the matrixes of the bones, which will cause the bones to become harder. With this said hands do still break, but with the right condition and perfected techniques you can lower your odds of breaking bones in your hands. While the palm strikes are great, and taught in B.K boxing the truth is the longer the lever the more power you have. Most knockouts even back then were knuckles to jaw, but it is a great strategy in the beginning in the fight to hit the hard objects of your opponent with the soft part of your hand (ex. Palm to nose) and to hit the soft part of your opponents body with the hard part of your hand. Let's talk about the palm up jab. While on a right hander it is common to hold the arm extended to parry punches. It wouldn't do a left handed fighter any good since he would be inviting liver attacks. So it's not always the case that the lead arm was extended. So why is this image so iconic in B.K fighting? The palm up jab is actually the first punch in a lethal combination. That's right in B.K. boxing there were lethal combinations, and this is the only one I will let you in on. The palm up punch is actually no where near as powerful as a palm down jab due to the snap your body generates from turning the punch over. So why did they do it? The Palm up jab was used to tilt the head back to get a clear shot to strike the throat. Yes it take between 15 to 25 psi to crush a wind pipe, while a perfected straight punch actually has anywhere from 500 to 800 psi. Long story short if you run across a B.K. fighter and he shows you this palm up stance, he's letting you know that the fight is to the death. Which was considered tuff at the time and is why the image has become so iconic.

[@justinmalangoni]

Bas explains how palm or wrist striking gives you an additional 2-3 inches of windup speed or momentum. Especially if mounted.

[@BarsusDraco]

I took some lessons in victorian boxing and combined it with modern boxing. The victorian stance and the powerful body shots work well against other martial arts, such ad karate, Muay Thai. Somehow, this made boxing all more fun and mixed sparing somewhat easier.

[@angrykermit3192]

If I ever get in a fight I'm gonna use the fighting Irish stance! It just seems to make more sense.

[@macker33]

The irish actually had a two stick martial art fighting system but it died out around the mid 19th century. They used a short blackthorn stick with a club at the end for blocking and a longer blackthorn stick with a club at the end for striking.

[@markbober9781]

Your head is the castle, your hands are the fort. It's just that simple. They also didn't have this big cotton swaps (gloves) on the end of their hands to use to protect their face. Bare knuckle boxing is closer to a real street fight. You are absolutely correct that the big bones of the head plus all the bony prominence like the teeth can mess your fists up real bad. This is why I always hit with an open hand, always. It's a more natural weapon than the tiny bone knuckles. Glad someone else looked back at the old fighters.