Figure skating wrong jumps explained! Lutz Flip Toe loop vs Flutz Floopz Loopz Floop Saltoe Lip

[@FigureSkatingFan]

What exactly are Flutz? Floop? etc? And how did these names come around? This video is simply made for educational purposes on all the jumps nicknamed by fans. No criticism intended. No matter what kind of technical flaws there are, always remember what the skaters are doing are extremely difficult and it took them a lot of hardwork! So stay respectful to the skaters when commenting. Cheers~

[@sweetmarcipan]

I think the biggest problem now is that as long as the wrong technique is not being picked and on the contrary it being so well rewarded (and even being praised as record breaking which is mind blowing) it is enabled and being spread among younger generation of skaters and even being taughed by coaches as "a modern technique". Is there a way to stop this? I think we need to talk about it, spread the knowledge and it's the only way to stop this. I don't know when and I don't know how- but we should not overlook it. It is a huge mammoth in a skating rink!

[@FigureSkatingFan]

It's really down to whether ISU sees this as an issue. From their attitude now, it seems like they don't really think it's an issue... As for then why Flutz / LIP is such an issue for them it's beyond us...

[@mariajesseannegloria3026]

The most helpful rule change the ISU could ever make is allowing the tech panel to review in slo-mo, frame by frame, from different angles. It won’t even take long when they have 3 people in the tech panel

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah that is, if they are willing to change and to be fair..

[@Patibens]

@@FigureSkatingFan they never will cause the big shots, all come from countries that have skaters with these techniques.

[@Nunelii]

This is not about countries, this is about skaters. We all know what you mean when you say "countries". At least you could stand by it. And just so you know, "these" techniques can be found on any skater from anywhere in the world. But stigmatizing a country is called systemic racism. Try to qualify your words before making a value judgement.

[@DS-us1vi]

I think it should be allowed if at least 3 judges think an element may be questionable that it can be looked at - otherwise it will cause unnecessary lengthy delays and other issues. If it is set at the entire panel in agreement to review, it will be too high and will never be reviewed, only 1 or 2 will be too low and be used too often and due to irrelevant reasons, ie politics, - but 3 may be just about right.

[@mmmmmmmm9358]

And slow-mo already shown to commentators and audiences

[@JJJJ-us4dt]

Yuzuru's thesis seem to be like a textbook for figure skating.....

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Lol~~ Yeah bible of figure skating 😅😜

[@花車-c6t]

本来なら複数カメラやスロー検証などはすぐにでも出来ることです。でもISUは、それさえも受け入れようとはしません。羽生選手が現役でこの論文を出すことは、とても勇気がいったと思います。ジャッジ批判にも受け取られかねないからです。でも彼の論文はジャッジの補助をするサポート的なAIだと思います。それによってジャッジングはスムーズになり、時間も短縮されます。AIなら人間の動体視力では見えない速さも即座に判断出来ます。サッカー、テニス、野球、採点競技の体操でさえAIを導入しました。フィギュアはまるで原始時代です。頑なにISUが受け入れようとしないのは、利権のためだと思います。

[@isabelacristinafioramonte9455]

I agree completely, the problem is ISU judges, they are wrong to judge as correct a incorrect tecnic! The skaters are just doing what they see that have good result, so why work hard in a Lutz if you can have the same score with a flutz? And can we talk about Yuzuru thesis? It's perfect!

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yes we can all talk about Yuzuru thesis dear!! It's perfect!!!! 👆👆👆💓💓💓

[@쿠키-b3g-z9d]

The Standard of Jump yuna kim 👑

[@Raphann88]

Your work is amazing. Detailed, precise, well documented, honest ; you don't pick on any specific skater, and you remind us all of how difficult it actually is, even when the technique is not textbook. I really admire the quality of your videos.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Thank you so much for the kind words. ❤️❤️❤️

[@Angiegonzalezb]

If you knew the reason why some pages pick certain skaters....

[@YannisGoedermans]

The technical panel should be able to review jumps in frame by frame slo-mo for the entire jump. Take off, air position and landing. And in cases like Medvedeva it should have been obvious. It's clear as day her lutz was taken off from the inside. How she only ever received one edge violation call is beyond me. These problems aren't going to fix themselves if they don't get penalised for it.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Actually Medvedeva realized this issue as well, tried to change many times by using different entry, and also went to Orser to learn the proper Lutz techniques.. She somehow got penalized for trying to improve after getting to Orser :(

[@Angiegonzalezb]

​@@FigureSkatingFanFinally getting what they should have gave her long tiem ago

[@emprornazer6715]

I’m glad you’ve mentioned Shoma and Vincent as an examples of skaters who use blade assist on flip and lutz. I’ve seen so many people hating on Anna for literally inventing this technique to execute “fake quads”. They seem to ignore the fact that nowadays most skaters use this optimised technique, yet she’s still one of only two ladies who can do a quad flip. She doesn’t deserve that much criticism.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Really it's just the technique they are being taught is different. Yes it's not the "standard" technique but there's no rule against it in ISU. I'm pretty sure if there's rule against it their coaching team will just force them to do differently... And totally agree, Anna didn't deserve any hate from fans. She tried so hard!!

[@Пятница13оеНеважно]

Она не заслуживает грибищ, которые получает за свое читерство

[@angieortizurena3327]

Yeah, she totally deserves a 4,76 GOE for a Flootz…

[@citronella-x7j]

@@angieortizurena3327 that's not what the comment was saying. Haven't you seen the inflated GOEs other skaters get for poor technique? It's not just Anna. Besides, we all know national results are extremely overscored anyway.

[@feyanormorfol2457]

@@Пятница13оеНеважно поскольку в правилах нет ни малейшего штрафа за большой предокрут и ни малейшего бонуса за небольшой предокрут - всё честно. Я бы вообще штрафовал за "минимальный предокрут" - бесполезная трата времени, ведущая к медленной крутке и недокрутам. Но если некоторым мнение какой-нибудь очередной Кулорвоты важнее правил - пусть не обижаются на оценки. Судьи-то судят по правилам.

[@ariannabinaghi5222]

Yuzuru Hanyu: the flip is my worst jump Also yuzuru Hanyu: does 3F in extremely intricate step sequences out of nowhere. Sometimes I wonder wether some other quad jumpers would be able to do triples the way he does

[@citronella-x7j]

+ 1 more - also yuzuru hanyu: lands 4F

[@yohanes2034]

Now I wish he will try and land that in competitions, you know just for the record.

[@joaocampelo3725]

His triple jumps looks so easy like it’s just part of the choreography

[@tovunguyentrang07]

I swear the names for the wrong jumps are the funniest😂😂😂

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Funny fans 😅🙏😜

[@zhajyzzi2316]

Petition to make Yuzuru's thesis the official ISU guideline... ✋

[@krizziaanasco3559]

kolyada and yuna kim's lutz jumps are perfection hanyu's axel is just majestic sysly theyre my fave skaters alongside daisuke takahashi

[@ariannabinaghi5222]

Amazing and informative video as usual. I do think that sometimes it's hard for judges to notice every single mistake in every single skater in a competition, but at the same time, if the commentators see them, then they should be seeing them as well. Also, it's very suspicious when specifically some skaters get calls and others don't.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Exactly! If the commentators can see them, things got fishy there..

[@Cherry-iq1xb]

'Despite all these technical imperfections, let's not forget that what they're doing is still incredibly difficult, almost at a superhuman level.' Very well said. They should be appreciated for their effort no matter what.

[@DeepSeas..]

Not if they’re winning at the expense of better skaters. I’m sure it’d be very difficult for someone to build a cheating device that they could sneak into a testing center, should we praise them for cheating as well because what they’re doing is difficult?

[@Cherry-iq1xb]

@@DeepSeas.. Maybe I should say recognise their effort instead of appreciate then. We can do that while also recognising that they do cheat their jumps. Judges are responsible for rewarding cheated jumps thus the result, if they hadn’t, skaters’ quality work will put them in their deserved ranks. Though it’s not to say that skaters should take advantage of blind judges, it’s something that I find frustrating, but I still respect them.

[@citronella-x7j]

@@DeepSeas.. Skaters do not cheat. Only judges and coaches do.

[@TheVillka]

I wonder why people are not that forgiving when it comes to other jobs. Like, you go to a doctor who stitches you somehow. You look at the suboptimal work and say - well, doing stitches is a superhuman skill. The job is ugly but thanks for the effort.

[@citronella-x7j]

@@TheVillka No offense but your comparison is not reasonable. This is a sport, not a job. Just a sport. A stage of life. Getting stitches from a doctor is far more important than this.

[@saradam4174]

曖昧なジャンプと完全なジャンプに採点の違いがはっきりしないのが問題です。 完全なジャンプを跳ぶのが馬鹿馬鹿しくなるようではスポーツとしてのフィギアスケートの発展はないと思います。 バクセル(踏み切りが前に向かって跳んでいないアクセルジャンプ)もありますね。これも完全なアクセルと採点において差をつける必要があります。

[@toewally]

Thank you. This is the video that all figure fans should watch and be aware of. If you truly love and enjoy figure skating you know that every judge should be fair and precise so that skaters with correct techniques can be treated appropriately. ISU must be strict about jumping mechanisms to make figure skating a long-lasting sport.

[@yinghsi1207]

Yuzuru Hanyu's thesis is GOLD!!!

[@ChristineTheHippie]

The ISU used to be strict about those in the early days of the IJS. They should get back to cracking down. The judges should be able to use slo mo.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Exactly! Now it's like they don't even bother anymore..

[@lunalexi2462]

Every other sport utilizes technology for judging, why would they not use it for figure skating? People at home are watching slow mo playback but the judges can’t? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard today. C’mon figure skating it’s time to catch up

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Exactly! The oldest sport is also the most stubborn..

[@atlantis315]

what do you mean why ? then it would be harder for them to manipulate the results, of course...a tradition as old as figure skating itself

[@JJ_yuna]

Orser always produces a good textbook jumper, Yuna and Yuzuru!

[@snowgirl2352]

Yuzu is a genius wow 😳

[@francirose89]

Thank you so much for this! I asked a question about pre-rotation under another video some time ago not knowing it was such a contested topic and inadvertently started a mini fan war… Oops! But the explanation here (along with the video on Yuzuru’s thesis) clarifies a lot of my doubts. I appreciate your hard work with these informational videos.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah some fans can get really worked up for these issues.. Glad the videos help 😀😀

[@biscuitcase83]

The ISU need to step in and sort this out. They do not punish excessive pre-rotation or full blade but it should IMO count as under-rotating and poor take off...a skater who jumps a "quad lutz" with full blade/wrong edge and 3/4 rotation on the ice it is not a quad lutz at all

[@yohanes2034]

If ISU still care about jump technique differentiation, they need to judge takeoff technique as well. The current rules state the contrary, they couldn't check the slow motion for takeoff unless to check for edge violation. I know that they're trying to simplify judging but they went with IJS, so of course fans become obsessed with technicalities. The floopz, floop, loopz and saltoe are just totally different mechanic of the jumps they're trying to represent. So it's unfair for skaters who do them better. Out of those wacky jumps, I hate saltoe the most because if you look at normal speed you'd see it as salchow but ISU still refused to mark it as what it should be. The rules state that no slowmotion allowed, and in real time no one takes that as toeloop. Also Morisi knows how to do "better" toeloop, just see his 3T. ISU need to call it out, if not then no incentive from the skater to do it right. At least the other floopz, loopz, floop, you can only differentiate it in slowmotion. Just watch Mao long way to fix her flutz which she finally managed to get while also fixing her mule kick at the same time. Calling skaters for their bad technique will drive them to do it better.

[@ak2tine]

The best way is to include AI in judging system, because the technical panel, referre and judges are one bunch of criminals 😅

[@biscuitcase83]

Unlike Mao Asada, coaches and skaters who keep getting ridiculously overscored and their jumping flaws ignored have zero incentive to fix technique. It's unfortunate

[@citronella-x7j]

@@ak2tine I've always wondered, are they criminals or just blind? Also I wouldn't generalize since some judges are absolutely horrible but I don't think all of them are. AI judging is a great idea, though.

[@ak2tine]

@@citronella-x7j maybe both 😅... biased is a common thing in general. But I just hope they evaluates and give a proper scores the athletes deserved without talking sides.

[@citronella-x7j]

@@ak2tine Bias is part of human nature, so I presume you're right. I hope so too but I do not think it is realistic.

[@lindatannock]

It needs to be addressed by the ISU ASAP! These jumps aren't correctly done, and make skaters more prone to injury too. It's not just the edge or toe, it's the pre-rotation too! They deduct a landing that's short, but not the takeoff. Why?!! I'd also like to mention "cheating" combinations, by doing almost a power-pull after the landing of the 1st jump to get power to do the 2nd. You're supposed to land on a BO edge and take off almost straight-away. Skaters are now often taking off for a 3T as the 2nd jump either on a BI edge (which is incorrect), or a full power-pull back onto the BO edge. Imho, that's a real issue that I haven't seen addressed either, as folk are focused on the flat-footed toe assist jumps! It makes the 2nd jump way easier to do, just like they started to do with the euiler/sal. They were cheating the rotations of the euiler, so they could do a 3-turn before the 3S. You still see this happening, and it's cheating the combo as well! I'm a real stickler for good technique, and if the ISU don't stop this now, our sport will be ruined forever, quite frankly. The jumps will eventually become indecipherable (more than they are already!)

[@TheVillka]

Very nice video. Although to a lesser degree compared than the other ladies, Trusova also prerotates quite a lot her toe jumps (maybe 1/2 rotation on the ice). She is a strong jumper but I would never compare her technique to that of Nathan.

[@saraehtor7753]

@@Ndawndaw It’s better than Shcherbakovas and Valievas

[@ArinaAloeva]

@@Ndawndaw Не ревнуй, в отличии от этих двоих, Саше всегда занижают ошибки за флип.

[@ArinaAloeva]

@@Ndawndaw Ты не засралась еще.???

[@ArinaAloeva]

@@Ndawndaw А когда за флутц снимали с Щербы? И за 3.5 оборота считались как квады Камиле??? И при этом у обеих сумасшедшие оценки.

[@ArinaAloeva]

@@Ndawndaw Хватит себя утешать. У Анны обычный флутц и всё. Мы тоже не слепые. Начало как лутц потом полностью коньки заходят на внутреннеее ребро. Полностью. Про это не раз снимали ролики с замедленными повторами. Хватит на этом. Для вас главное свою линию гнуть. Вы английским комментатором отвечаете хорошо. Наверняка сестра Анны.

[@chibul2141]

ISU is killing all kind of toepick jumps

[@smalltallhall]

I love this channel so much! So educational, and so fun! Thank you!

[@FigureSkatingFan]

😂😂💓💓💓😀😀

[@steluriko]

Все верно! Долой читеров мошенников и слепых судей, им потакающих!!

[@anzidong7018]

You are my all-time favorite FS critic!

[@min_nad]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VID! I'm more active now in following FS and I always read people and friends talk about Fjumps or Bjumps and google didn't have an answer! This video is so helpful!

[@russki1978]

Funny that right when Medvedeva appears with her giant flutz I hear the words "flutz is a serious mistake and GOE will be deducted". Erm... when was her GOE ever deducted?

[@ereiniongil-galad]

Love that you showed in the video that anyone can have issue with bad jumping technique. As a relatively new FS fan, I've noticed (it's hard not to lol) that the Russian ladies have always drawn a lot fire on their jump techniques, but I didn't realize that other really great skaters such as Yuna, Vincent, Shoma, and even the one and only GOAT also struggle with jumping technique. Thank you so much for striving to provide an equalized, balanced view of skating! Keep up the great work.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

So glad to be of help :) We had a video on footwork / step sequence here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5asg6FqiZ6Ia6s --> We explained the step sequence and the difficult transitions such as counter, rockers, twizzle, etc in this video. Mohawk and three-turn were not explained in that video because it's considered basic moves in skating (Perhaps we will make another explaining all these in the future :))

[@lananhvu3488]

Hanyu's expressions at the end are the mood 😛

[@rezaartamevia1228]

During Mao Asada era.. Flutz is often called (even for other skater) But now, it become "normal" and judges seems don't care Because of that, many "new" jumps is exist which is very ridiculous.. And skater with those jumps still get high score

[@yohanes2034]

Flutz are called from time to time, but it certainly immune for certain skaters from a specific school. TP are more willing to call lip and I don't understand why.

[@emilymanhart368]

The ISU loves to see inflated scores, because the sport is 'advanced' with each new record. Just like Major League Baseball is testing using and electronic strike zone, I would love to see a more modern way to call edge violation, pre-rotations, etc. There must be a way to use AI and multiple camera angles to do this. Then the playing field will be level, at least on the technical side. Judges will still have the opportunity to inflate or underscore the Artistic Components.

[@fellafireeeeeeeeeee9942]

Yes, so true at throw the rage to the judges, not the skaters. If the judges give all the same treatment according to the protocol, this thing should never be the problem tho❤

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Exactly! The skaters just learn what they are being taught really..

[@fellafireeeeeeeeeee9942]

@@FigureSkatingFan very true, they favor A, they give A higher points and the A team ofc, will use this advantage to win. Because, every athlete goal is to win🤣

[@biscuitcase83]

Unless the judging changes to prevent such techniques then coaches and skaters have no reason to fix anything. That's the big problem

[@tonya--7704]

But that's not the case with all skaters or I guess that's not the case with Yuzu. I don't think he would ever try to get away with a bad technique if he consistently did something he knew was wrong but wasn't called on it. He would feel like that was cheating. It would be totally against his principles to win in such a way. Other skaters need to have at least enough pride in themselves that they don't want to win that way either. Max Ambesi is right when he says that ISU and JSF need to be led by Yuzu. He knows what needs to be done and how to save figure skating.

[@fellafireeeeeeeeeee9942]

@@tonya--7704 Maybe the athlete want a fair play but the team behind the skater, like the nations, federations, judges, the relationship between 2 countries (I mean more like how it benefitted with each other countries) like Adelina Sotnikova case. She performed so good there, but because she's Russian, plays at Russia and have mostly Russian as the judges, it makes the athlete, even though they themselves wanted to play fairly, they just can't and her skills always being overlooked, while actually I really like Adelina spins rather than Yuna Kim's spins. If I was in Adelina position, I might need to play along, because we don't know how the federations gonna do you or even to your families. Maybe I have 3 options in my mind about the judges: 1. First, they are retired figure skater athletes with good qualifications. I agree, if someone like Yuzu may start another career as a judge in figure skating. 2. AI for the win, because of their more objectivism. 3. Use judges as how it should be, but they need to balance it. Like if the skater is from this country, then the judges should be from other countries to prevent and the pressure to win the athlete from your country. I see it's quite effective in badminton. Like, I never see the athlete is being judged from the same country as them (in the newer era), the unique thing is, not even the one who provide the shuttlecock for the players (Well, nowadays, they didn't really use it anymore since the pandemic).

[@dee98]

Omg this video is so educational! I was only familiar with floop, flutz, and saltoe (bc of morisi lol) before this. Thank you!

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Glad to be helpful

[@tonya--7704]

@@FigureSkatingFan Since when did Morisi improve enough to all of a sudden be winning Gold?

[@unikkoi]

Whaaat the judges cannot watch the slow motion what nonsense how in general then to define the edges?!? and thanks for the video I admired Yuzuru

[@FigureSkatingFan]

The technical referee team, use real time speed to watch and define the edge violation from there. It's almost like they didn't take it seriously enough 😫😫

[@yohanes2034]

I've been wondering for the loop-like takeoff technique, if it makes the jump easier or more consistent for the skater. You talk about taking the shortcuts and I tend to believe that the technique makes the jump to be landed more consistently. Personally, I see those jumps to be inferior, sometimes ugly-looking, and not effortless. In my opinion that technique makes lutz, flip, and loop kinda look the same and I believe that is not what ISU want to preserve the differentiation between jumps. So I'd say ISU need to act on it otherwise in 10, 20 years there might be no separation between the 3. Because every school will teach their skaters this technique if indeed making the jumps easier. If it's allowed why bother right?

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Exactly.. It's quite a double standard on ISU side. They seem to be strict about Flutz and LIP for some skaters, lenient for some, and totally ignore the Loopzzz.. Eteri must have figured out their secrets and worked along that line..

[@yohanes2034]

@@FigureSkatingFan I screamed with joy when ISU wanted to release new guideline with something called full blade in it (plus getting all 4Lo, 4F, and 4Lz BV to 11). But then I guess Rusfed worked thier magic and it got cancelled.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

@@yohanes2034 yes!! Their excuse officially is that because of COVID, a lot of things are going on so they stop the changes. But that’s BS. It’s 2 different matter so.. Like u said, there must be something behind the scene going on :(

[@tonya--7704]

@@yohanes2034 Now there's a faction who want to take out transitions and musicality as a judging bullet. This will be the first step to taking the beauty out of figure skating and making it a jumping contest. And as far as these jumps go, I think it depends on every judges preference on who they like best regardless of their technique. Some will get positive GOE some won't because of that preference. As long as the jumps are landed they won't really care about the take off technique if that person is preferred over the others.

[@callieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

No, I believe bad take off makes the jump much harder. I skate a lot, sometimes I like to experiment and to be honest I don't know how Evgenia EVER did it, no offense to her. I try to keep my jumps like Yuna K, Alena K, Veronika Z...

[@ninzu8265]

My only wish is, can the judges and tech controller read yuzu's thesis first before doing their job? So at least they are knowing how bad they are even in denial

[@angelafan8886]

I should really read Yuzu's paper, too bad I don't understand Japanese. Is there an translated version in English?

[@FigureSkatingFan]

We had done a video on that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZSVlXeXfsacnNk --> Under this video, the pinned comment should have a link with a google doc on the translated version of Hanyu's thesis done by our team member. Check it out :)

[@laughysophie8818]

Sasha definitely doesn’t not have a textbook flip, she has an outside edge on her flip, full blade assist, as well as a loop take off, she performs up to 3/4 of the first rotation on the ice. Definitely not someone I would call a good jumper, she’s got the typical Eteri technique.

[@saraehtor7753]

In the 4F showed in this video, Sasha had a perfect slight inside edge on flip. Her edge got outside when she switched to Plushenko.

[@ArinaAloeva]

@@Ndawndaw Техника Тусовой идеален по сравнению с ними. Россияночка наша.

[@823gth2]

フルッツ、フループなど崩れたジャンプの問題提起ですね。素人には見分けがつかないけど、解決策の１つとして羽生君論文が取り上げられている。フィギュアはジャッジで永遠に揉めてるね。

[@АндрейМихайлов-ж9х]

Действительно, это не спортсмены халтурят, а пробелы в правилах и судействе. Не пойман- не вор. Что не запрещено- то разрешено!

[@FigureSkatingFan]

да. Спортсмен просто следует тому, чему его учат. Так что не стоит критиковать фигуристов.

[@errians]

@@KKKK-bl4cg сколько у нас этих "косяков", страшно посчитать. У одиночниц особенно. Прер на прере и недокруте, всё смазано. Судьи глаза закрывают, мол элемент исполнен же. На домашних кошмарно гоят 😖. Короче говоря, внимательный зритель все поймет. Простите за "излияния души", но читать комментарии, где слепо боготворят такие прокаты, вызывает тихий ужас. Поддерживать отвратительную технику нет никакого желания, даже когда выступают наши. Стыдно смотреть😔.

[@rienqueproblemes]

​@@FigureSkatingFanага! Да и во взрослом возрасте очень тяжело переучиваться, особенно на квадах. Все вопросы к бригадам.

[@ak2tine]

Some skater worked hard to corrected and improved their techniques jumps, while some prefer to ignored the criticism and refused to learn. Edit: because judges turned blind eyes to their wrong technique.

[@prokshhh]

5:30 i didn't expect to johnny here 😂

[@FigureSkatingFan]

😂😂😂

[@spicy_kitty7983]

Koola King was an icon and a legend. Nothing toxic about them. Every single thing they state in their videos are pure facts

[@saeedtuoba1408]

Honestly, this is brand brand new. I never imagine even quad toe can be cheated like this

[@aikaunperritofeliz6766]

Pienso que la ISU deberia re-evaluar su metodo de puntaje, pues algunos entrenadores se aprovechan de estos vacios y dejan que sus alumnos sigan teniendo tecnicas erroneas y parezcan "limpios".

[@jazmincaceres8678]

son malos especialistas técnicos y además se aprovechan. Si es que se les puede llamar así, por ejemplo a Dudakov mas bien diría especialista en desastres técnicos

[@suswe5777]

@@jazmincaceres8678 Exacto ese entrenador es el peor de Rusia, transmite mala técnica a sus alumnos y todavía reciben altos puntajes

[@knightenchanter7908]

Excellent video. This is a reason why I always defend Nathan Chen. He might not be the most artistic skater but his jumping technique is usually textbook. And I'm REALLY happy you mention Vincent and Shoma. In fact it's sad that you didn't mention many other names like Kaori, Yelim Kim, Haein Lee, etc. because they all have problems with their jumping technique yet get little to no criticism and instead people gang up on the Russian girls (Anna, Kamilla and Sasha). It's esp sad because some really good jumpers like Liza, Rika, Han Yan etc. are completely underscored and overlooked smh

[@annecohen8927]

Instead of referring of Flip to Lip, it should be referred as Flop.

[@rallybl]

5:29 Oh, Hello NCT Jonny, nice to see you here :)))

[@354e2]

今回の解説で以前よりも少しだけフィギュア·スケートの技術的'審査員の難しさが解って来ました 　ありがとう それにしても、羽生結弦選手の技術·知識と論文での学識の高さに改めて感服いたしました 　今、羽生結弦選手が挑戦している４回転半ジャンプの成功は、かならず今後のフィギュア·スケート界の新たな指標と成ると思います 　私達ファンは、オリンピックでの羽生結弦選手が怪我無く４回転半ジャンプを成功出来る事を切に願うばかりです 　現状では🥇金メダルに一番近い選手はネイサン・チェン選手でしょう 　しかし、それでも我々羽生結弦選手のファンは奇跡を❗４回転半ジャンプの成功と🥇金メダルをただただ夢見て願って居ます

[@mokkanx7086]

Nice and detailed explanations to all types of jumps👍🏻 However quite a number of judges are blind as they still gave high GOE to those jumps.

[@makidoko]

Thanks for the explanation... For me it's still incredible jumps, and I don't care about what happen in the first 10th of a second. Imagine a world without camera and judge performances without replays and slow-motion. Sport is fast forward motion, not play/pause. Yes they are at superhuman level, and if hater have some digestive issues, they just have to blame the judges, not the athletes. Alas, haters usually don't think, but just hate.

[@ekaterinaaitbalaeva5175]

Saloop! 🤣 All Etherians make hybrid jumps, leave 3/4 of the first spin on the ice, have problems with the flip/lutz edge and with the toe pick. It is strange that the judges stubbornly do not want to mark this incorrect technique.

[@elenamastiukova2787]

Well, if you watched the video, you’d know the Eterians aren’t the ones and the first ones! doing pre-rotation. Also, doing what they’re doing is “almost inhuman”, so they deserve to win

[@citronella-x7j]

I understand that this video is intended to be explanatory and not comedic but the names for the wrong jumps are just so funny to me.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

hahaha creative fans

[@LilySayyy]

I think allowing review in slow motion would be a positive change, because then they wouldn't be able to say that they didn't see something because of the angle or any other bs excuse. But I actually don't think judges need it, the panel has always called out every single one of Mao Asada's wrong edges and URs, so they clearly don't need slo-mo to spot mistakes

[@scifigrl23]

They DO review in slow mo though. Have been for years.

[@MoisesDanielJordan]

I wanted to know about the toe-axel as well, I want to understand the cheat behind it. And why exactly isn't slo-mo allowed? What is the premise behind that? Like it would only take a few seconds to check the take-off and grade accordingly.

[@tonya--7704]

The axel is a forward blade jump not a toe jump. I don't think there's a cheating problem on the axel.

[@yohanes2034]

I'd assume that slow motion reviews for every takeoff take time and K&C is already long as it is. It could be that bias will also kick in and many would again complain why certain skaters receive it and others don't. A lot of your layman people is also not that well versed about this topic. Putting that aside, the answer is not by not doing it at all. Yuzuru's idea of using AI is in my opinion would solve a lot of hurdles

[@TL-tc9jq]

Slo-mo replay at this point should be required for all jumps during scoring. It is horrifying that is still isn’t and we are relying solely on naked human eyes for this incredibly fast sport??? Or is this another excuse for intentionally not penalizing poor techniques???

[@coasterland1920]

There should be a new figure skating division where athletes are solely judged for each jumps..without music choreo, steps, spins, etc...like stand on a lane and do single jumps double jumps triple etc...and see each technique correctly

[@KC-mu5so]

I was not expecting to see johnny here lol

[@k_swiftie4615]

6:11 I’m sorry but Sasha has outside edge on her flip so it’s not a clean 4F

[@saraehtor7753]

She does not. At this 4Flip her edge was flat or slightly inside but not outside. It’s just later that her flip had outside edge when she worked with Plushenko, but now it is flat again she improved that

[@404vaz]

even though her edge turns to slightly outside when she’s doing the 4F, she did have a clean insight edge 4f during her past time

[@devi_-]

thank you for this it's nice to know I'm not crazy even though judges will mostly continue to ignore it and commentators will continue to gaslight fans who point it out

[@LenaLight0204]

間違ったジャンプ集ね。特にルッツとフリップが多いみたいだね。これらはトゥでプレロテ90°以下で跳ぶジャンプで、両方正しく跳べる人は数えられるほどしかいない。フリップはインサイドで跳ぶジャンプだが、寄りすぎても駄目なんだよね。 あと、この動画にはないが、バクセル(後ろ向きに跳ぶアクセルのこと)もある。あまり聞かないが。 追記:リピンツキーはソルトレイクではなく、長野金メダリストだよ。ソルトレイク金はヒューズの方。

[@adangv3032]

Funny to see how the “Olympic champion” (Anna) has plenty of problems and trusova doesn’t, another reason why she should’ve won

[@fellafireeeeeeeeeee9942]

Keep up for the good vids~

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Thank you so much for the support and encouragement 😀😀

[@blackchocolate3191]

私は過去の試合などを時々見ますが、海外の多くの解説者が、羽生選手のジャンプを、まるで教科書の様な､と表現していますよね､彼のジャンプは正確なだけで無く、前後に多くの技を組み込みジャンプの難易度も上げています、しかし今の力量不足のジャッジ達はプレロテーションを見逃し、バク盛り点を付けたり、羽生選手の様な正確で難易度を上げたジャンプに、有り得無い低いGOEを付ける有り様で、見て要る方が呆れてしまう❗此れではフィギュアの未来は無い❗ISUは出来る所からAIを導入し､早目の改革が必要だと感じますね‼️

[@peachpeach5483]

I hate overscoring.. N blame the judges coz is real deal. N we can see it. Slow motion is not hard to add in this era. Is not fair for the athletes too.. Alsa appreciate the athletes that keep on working for their technique..

[@audreyheng8275]

I admit that Koola King’s videos are a bit toxic and sarcastic, but you gotta love her sassy and outright comedic attitude. And it’s not like she targeting the skaters really, she makes fun of their jumps but at the end of the day she always says “RIP ISU” and often criticises the judges such as the Sochi 2014 judges. And she is actually very good at breaking down jumps and comparing them to other textbook skaters emphasising the correct technique. Her slow-mo work is very good and she often has highlights to point out stuff so her videos are actually very informative and funny at the same time. And it’s not like she’s just a die-die Yuna Kim fan and hates Russia. She has praised Mikhail Kolyada’s quad lutz and Elizaveta tuktamysheva, so she’s not very biased. In simple terms, I would call her a “Brutally honest” channel more than anything.

[@Digizzzzs]

I adore them. Koola and zhenya. the era gives me kinda drama vibe it was fun to watch

[@RuaridhDavidson]

Shes an unhinged delusional Yuna fan that had a bizarre obsession with Medvedeva. Just because she adds stan twitter memes during her videos does not make her funny. She's incredibly toxic as are the community that follow her, and are a blight/blemish on the fandom of figure skating. Brutally honest is generally code for ass btw. Channels like this are much better and far more constructive and argue with delusional bias and in good faith unlike koola.

[@RuaridhDavidson]

Also you do realize she only likes the athletes from Russia when they are not a threat to her god and savior yuna right? Like use your brain please, the reason she focuses on medvedeva so much is because she is arguably the most accomplished skater from the eteri and russian girls. She has a vendetta, you have to be completely delusional not to see it yourself.

[@alexraven8684]

You video has two wrong statements. First - technical panel can use slow motion and even frame by frame to analyze edge and landing. Only pre-rotation on take-off must be seen in normal speed only. Second - term full blade assistance is not declared in the ISU rules at all. What part of blade must still be in air - ¾, ½, 1/3 or ¼ there is not any rule. So if some part of blade is in air e.g. heel this is not full blade jump. IMHO

[@nikitashaitan9984]

The thing is judges can not watch it frame by frame in slow-mo instantly and rewatch it as much as we can. They don’t have all the resources we have with rewatching. And their time is limited. They have to give marks on each jump, spin, sequences and even PCS.

[@DeepSeas..]

It doesn’t take that long to see these mistakes, especially because they’re used by virtually all the skaters of certain coaches and do not change from competition to competition. You’re telling me in three years not one technical controller saw Medvedeva’s flutz? The judges see it, they’re just too corrupt to apply deductions

[@biscuitcase83]

The wrong technique and excessive pre-rotation is very clearly visible in real time though Jumps are (supposedly) reviewed for take off edges and underrotations on landing by the tech panel. Perhaps the solution would be two sets of technicians on the tech panel, each reviewing either take off or landings separately

[@nikitashaitan9984]

@@DeepSeas.. so you’re telling me they have to target some groups. Do i even have to explain why it is problematic?

[@nikitashaitan9984]

@@biscuitcase83 they don’t have countless bank accounts with trillions of dollars to have this amount of judges though. It is not powered with magic. There are people that need payment: judge panel, referees, videography crew, ice support crew, medical crew. That is a ton of money. And you want them to pay for even more judges? Judges need vizas, flight tickets, hotels, food and etc. And no, prerotation is not visible without extreme slow-mo. I mean i’ve watched each competition in Moscow and Saint Petersburg (and some Sochi) for the past 15 years, trained for a few years FS (i fo spins and some doubles) my mom was a figure skater and i remember watching FS from the youngest age. I can not tell on the rink wether it was massively prerotated or not. You can see if it was 1 turn on the ice before the jump, surely. But there is no massive visible difference IRL between 90 and 180 degrees prerotation. What you see on the screen is not what judges see IRL. They could give marks based on the video but they would not be able to watch for ice coverage, transitions, speed. There are some advantages at watching it on the screen like better view at some edge work and jump closeups, prerotation and slowing the speed. But there are also massive benefits at watching it live.

[@biscuitcase83]

@@nikitashaitan9984 Well I can see the pre-rotation in real time so I don't understand how you don't

[@rsmxrie]

Figure Skating especially in the individual area is getting ridiculous day by day.

[@luzs.1845]

I can't believe than I never relationed the lip with a over-rotation jump 🤯

[@stanley052380]

the edge call wasnt really resonate in the score sheet when lipinski competed in the olympics. But the past olympiads it has raised awareness imo due to skaters doing quad. Very few skaters can retool their technique even Mao's last olympiad if im not mistaken shes still flutzing. ISU like any org is drowning with red tape. Also figure skating has achieved progress technique wise compare to other disciplines within ISU. If ISU really want a huge progress they would allow an inquiry to the athlete's score just like in gymnastics.

[@源-s5u]

すごい凝った動画

[@FigureSkatingFan]

😀😀

[@ChristineTheHippie]

So, would a Saltoe count as a third toe loop or a third Salchow 🤔

[@birgits.3702]

7:47 Oh no. That's wrong information. There are Data & Replay Operators, a very important part of the Technical Panel in every skating competition. Data & Replay Operators have to attend seminars and pass exams to qualify! So, of course the judges do have the possibility to watch the skater's videos in slow-motion, and not only that, they can (and will) run back and forth through essentials moments in order to check those edges and other features. You can check it out by visiting any ice skating competition, even the small local ones. At some rinks you can even get so close to the panel that you can see the monitors: yes, they are checking those videos in slow-motion and running through back and forth. This is also why it may take a couple of minutes until the score is published.

[@madgamer6266]

Why are the judges not allowed 🚫 to see slow mo or replay. Isn't that unfair to the competition

[@scifigrl23]

They are. Not sure what he is on about.

[@Digizzzzs]

9:27 during the slo-mo, midori sensei said her edge seemed inside edge on Asahi-TV

[@KelseyDavison]

Come for the skating, stay for Johnny memes. 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@CarlitosJS]

Eteri left the chat...

[@FigureSkatingFan]

LOL~~ Good one!!!

[@JJ_yuna]

Hahaha!

[@Ed-cx6vr]

Your voice sounds legit. You should commentate for isu

[@rjjduhdhdj7354]

احد اجمل فيديوهات الشرح شكرا

[@prokshhh]

petition for I$U to use AI for judging

[@terminatort5012]

Kdyby rozhodčí dávali za špatnou techniku GOE 0, tak by se rázem vymýtila.

[@mmmmmmmm9358]

So judges couldn’t see Eugenia’s OBVIOUS flootz but could see Yuna’s outside edge in almost perfect flip?? ✍️✍️✍️

[@laurenkho2584]

thanksgiving so good

[@assortedasmr430]

I loooove this video❤️

[@Пятница13оеНеважно]

Это видео в топ! Браво!

[@MrUrigell]

Omg. Chen clean jumps... from 1/4 jump to 1/2 on ice ALWaYS. Nice manipulation! Chen use prerotation every jump

[@citronella-x7j]

Confusing comment. You do realize a small amount of prerotation is necessary, right? 0 prerotation is nearly impossible.

[@花車-c6t]

彼は他の選手に比べたらプレロテは少ない方かも。空中で何回転したかとかなら一番分かりやすいですよね。でも彼はつなぎ(トランジション)が薄いからPCSが何故あんなに高いのか謎。ジャンプも高さ、幅、流れ等を見ると、GOEの＋4,＋5は有り得ないと思う。ボーナスが多いよ。何よりジャンプ前の待機時間が長い。体力温存してるのだろうけど、そのせいでプログラムに溶け込んでない。何故、音楽の解釈の点数があんなに高いのかやっぱりPCSが謎です。それからバクセルはヤバイ。直した方がいい。

[@citronella-x7j]

@@花車-c6t who was your reply directed toward? I can't read that and the google translation is unclear

[@divinearia1601]

A 1/4 pre-rotation is textbook. As for him pre-rotating 1/2, pls show us the exact time-stamp where that happened. I want to say "I can't believe there are actually 5 'likes' to the lies in this comment", but I'm not at all really that surprised. It's sad how the extremists are willing to delude themselves to any length to try to justify their hatred for a skater. You really can't get any more textbook than Nathan Chen when it comes to jumping technique. And the Japanese fan here complaining about his GOEs...Nathan doesn't always get +4 or +5 for his jumps, but when he does, he has earned it. As for his PCS, all I'm going to say is that we all have opinions, but the only opinions that matter are those of the judges'. You don't like his skating and would never give him a 94 or a 95 in PCS for his performances? Stop whining and go put in an application to be a judge then. Let's see if you'll even qualify to be one.

[@MrUrigell]

@@divinearia1601 ahahah almost EVERY jump. For ex: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJXdnqioiJJ2rsU 1:18. 4 Salhow. Use slow 0:25 and look at the moment take of the ice. 1/2 prerotation. Or your eyes closing in these moments??? Lol. 1/4 jump on ice always. And every second-third jump prerotation 1/2.

[@404vaz]

I hope the judges will score EVERY skater’s performance and jump fairly by using the SAME standard and rules in the future! I was totally disgusted by their double standards to different skater due to their nationalities😅Just deduct proper points for some jumps that used bad technique!

[@emi283]

I don't know why but when you mentioned Flip I was so happy to see the Queen Alina

[@lillianscott4194]

Yes I think her flip has no big problem, but her lutz sometimes not good . They all have the problem of pre too much.

[@francamancini7058]

E' evidente che bisogna cambiare il metodo di giudizio di questi salti e fare in modo che sia equo per tutti i pattinatori evitando preferenze!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[@jessyjess2361]

Все равно российские фигуристки победят, смиритесь и не нойте)

[@annar1525]

Where can you find these Hanyu's paper in English?

[@FigureSkatingFan]

We had done a video on that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZSVlXeXfsacnNk --> Under this video, the pinned comment should have a link with a google doc on the translated version of Hanyu's thesis done by our team member. Check it out :)

[@mrsnufkinsan]

Floopz! HAHAHAHAHAHHA what a cute word

[@TT-ee4qp]

Michelle kwan was robbed at the 98 Olympics, Tara's filp and lutz would be called out for under rotation today. Tara's triples were cheap. Tiny, rushed jumps. 😡 And of course Tara's artistry was far from Michelle's. Michelle skated like an angel on ice, Tara skated like a happy puppy running in the park. 🤭🤭🤭 The ISU raised the age limit to 17 NOW, which means Tara Lipinski should go to the kid's Olympics with her Disney Cartoon program .🤣🤣🤣

[@Pearlyyy0]

8:47 Anna’s flip was slight outside edge to me tho…….

[@pjchj3599]

I was immediatly watching this because I see Yuna in thumbnail

[@wutami3098]

Queen Yuna is just the best❤️❤️❤️

[@fellafireeeeeeeeeee9942]

Yes, I also love how they are one of the most objective figure skating channel out there❤

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Queen Yuna!

[@FigureSkatingFan]

@Fella Fireeeeeeeeeee 😀😍😍

[@pjchj3599]

@@FigureSkatingFan Jumping Technique should be count in one of many criteria of " Skating Skills"