Film Theory: The Lorax Movie LIED To You!

[@flygawnebardoflight]

Disclaimer: Film Theory is not responsible for any psychological trauma inflicted by the Onceler fandom.

[@Nim...]

@@taralamlam1773 Why.....

[@nelloed]

hold up there's a fandom 😳

[@sharkylady]

I wheezed a bit too hard at this

[@Tintinstan7678]

@@nelloed you have no Idea do you?

[@kirbysuperstar5494]

I say they should be responsible, they should be proud of showing people what a true disaster this film is

[@chaoticcatartist]

We just gonna ignore biggering? The best song in the album that doesn't acctualy appear in the movie because it hit illumination too close to home.

[@salbon6257]

My cousin was telling me about that song last night lol I had never heard of it before

[@mcphoogirl9988]

YES YES YES I’ve been so obsessed with this song lately and dreaming about how cool the movie could have been if it had been darker

[@cha0tic_ech0]

AW MAN I was sort of waiting for him to mention it.

[@Arya-we7vf]

I'm SO glad that someone mentioned it. I was thinking about it the entire video, it's honestly so amazing.

[@mariisconfused]

Yes, I was hoping he'd bring that up. I saw a comment regarding the decision to scrap the song, 'What's wrong Illumination? Hit too close to home, and I couldn't agree more

[@auline8531]

It's so sad that the movie took on this more comedic, child-friendly tone. The book has a much better message and delivery. Also, the song they cut out of the movie (Biggering) is one of my favorite songs now.

[@beckyr.4708]

Yeah it's a shame I found out that treasure of a song just yesterday. It would have been very impactful in the movie and showed that the corporates in real life aren't naïve (Hbcib) but are very much aware of the damage they cause to the environment but just doesn't care. but I guess they removed it because they wanted to not hurt the feelings of the higher ups. I get chills with the line "...who cares if some things are dying".

[@sunflower8227]

THE BIGGERINNNGGGGGG IS TRIGGERINGGGGGG MORE BIGGERIIINNGGGGG

[@bombdiggitysongs1117]

Imma look this up now, thanks ❤️

[@MEDSZ13.08]

And the end of the book has no good ending

[@idkwhyihaveyt8686]

Yea, it has a more impactfull meaning but I don't want to replace how bad can I be.

[@arvindchhagan2098]

Ted only wanted a tree to get his crush so it is sad to know that he did not really want trees. How could have I missed this.

[@IceIR27]

@HypercarFest so does that means, that *WE* are the villains?

[@jasonlopez2697]

I don't see it as sad. Not everyone is willing to risk everything for just the greater good. They were comfortable with their lives and nobody was willing to lose that for something if it didn't affect their lives personally all that much. Not even Audrey took the risk. It's more sad nobody did anything, it took a young boy with a girl crush to finally do something about it. A boy who never seen a real tree like the previous generation who literally saw the destruction of the trees and it's wildlife. Just because a reason started off selfish doesn't matter. It's what it comes out at the end of it. I think Ted learned the importance and understood that it wasn't just about his crush on Audrey anymore. Yeah it's likely still a reason but nothing wrong with that. Even Oncler knew he was doing it for a girl because it's true, guys do crazy things for a girl but even still, it's not how it starts that matters but what it grows into and Oncler himself knew that himself. That's why he gave him the seed regardless him knowing he did it all for a girl. He needed to find someone and Ted was the only one to search for it. Despite the reasons that's all you really need so it can grow into more. (Which it does at the end). The last generation themselves created the destruction and up to that point did nothing to fix it because once O'Hare came they got comfortable again and forgot about trees and the world that was once really there. His focus at the end while planting the seed I took as he really found the importance. Even his speech he gave to the town told me he truly learned to care for the seed and trees and wanted to revive the world they destroyed. The seed in his heart wasn't the "purest" you could say but it grew into one. And that's definitely better than someone who might have pure reasons but is doing nothing about it. I did my best to not be so lengthy 😅

[@joshuaoostenbrink1324]

This movie is actually just about some simp who tries to get a plant for his girl

[@insecuree8194]

I think that’s cute tho he had motivation and learned about the benefits from it

[@baconboiii67]

@@joshuaoostenbrink1324 Yes lol-

[@AaronNopesOut]

They should have kept the song “biggering” because it’s so much more villainous and makes him come off as more of an awful person. “Who cares if a few trees are dying?” But in biggering it’s “who cares if a few THINGS are dying” acknowledging that he’s doing much more than JUST killing trees.

[@DawidStawowski]

Yeah, but then, it would be hard to make Onceler sympathetic to the audience.

[@KotaSlim25]

The saddest part of this theory is that there was a version of the Lorax that was planned to have that message. The problem was the people in charge of illumination didn’t want to make themselves look bad.

[@Mona72498]

“Look bad” are you serious they think that spreading the message “the person who made it is at fault even though were the ones asking for more” is a good message instead of “we need to stop promoting bad companies cause then we won’t have a home” is embarrassing?!!

[@KotaSlim25]

@@Mona72498 You know what? Maybe we should have left the Lorax as a children’s book. It had a simple message that does apply to today, but isn’t necessarily going into all the little details that cause problems for everyone involved.

[@djmewtwo6981]

@@Mona72498 I don’t understand what you mean

[@okayokay422]

@@Mona72498 "...and the PR people are lying!" How are consumers more responsible when they are far more ignorant than the business owners, and are just trying to get innovative and cheap versions of things they genuinely need, and have depended on for generations? People need shirts and hats and blankets and pillow cases. These things aren't excesses. That's why the product is called "the need". The Onceler is entirely at fault for not planting trees. It's not like consumers told him to cause extinction.

[@sleepingfae]

@@okayokay422 ​ I get what you’re saying, but the point was he had a smart idea, and made a stupid oopsie when not thinking about the longevity of his source for making the thneeds. And the thneed wasn’t necessarily a necessity, it was more like a multi-use convenience that became trendy (which trends irl are often known for people having the “need” for that thing). And since people liked it and wanted more, he made more, yk?

[@kendrashaaaa]

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not." my favorite Dr. Seuss quote ever.

[@goosegoose8345]

Yeah same here

[@mrcheese8597]

guess no one cares

[@pathetic2399]

Too bad no one cared a whole awful lot

[@arliamarr8693]

My favourite quote is "you scared him off you dirty ho "

[@DecafInvidia]

Mine is "Eat them in a box?"

[@VLiuLiBGdWueQ]

The "Bottled air machines" are really just air purifiers. That's how the air got so clean there. Almost if not everyone has one. I thought really hard about this a while ago.

[@sunflower8227]

wait thats true

[@PJOZeus]

O’hare isn’t clearing the air out of the goodness of his heart, it’s just people are buying enough to pseudo purify the neighbourhood

[@BillyBob-qu1fs]

That makes sense. The jugs are just a part that doesn't actually need to be replaced except by design. Like a pressurized bottle that the machine slowly leaks out and stops working when the pressure runs out or something.

[@abr579]

Where in the world did he get it?

[@HZWY_Records]

i honestly think that once ler's mum is the real bad guy, once ler had no intention of chopping the trees, she put the idea in his head

[@lProN00bl]

That was very much the intent rather than just have him be accountable for his actions. Because CEOs can't be responsible for their own actions despite doing everything they can to gain power and avoid accountability.

[@PyroGam3s]

@@lProN00bl Yes for whatever reason the CEO's aren't to blame. When companies get lawsuits it goes against the company not the CEO's. (Some lawsuits do go against CEO's but not usually) The point is the company either wins or settles, and the people in charge just keep doing their thing, uninterrupted.

[@kadinthomas2691]

I think the difference between the consumer and the big business men is the disconnect. Most of the thneed buyers weren’t in the forest so they couldn’t see the consequences of their greed whereas the onceler can clearly see and is warned repeatedly that his actions are ruining the world.

[@willj78]

I remember in my ethics class we were given a situation exactly like this where a local business was making a large profit yet discovered they were harming the local ecosystem. The main point of the lecture was that for corporate social responsibility every stakeholder, inside the company and outside, should see a positive result and the company has more than just a duty to be the most efficient it can be but to not harm anyone and not just rely on the knowledge problem to prevent losses and changes to operations.

[@jmurray1110]

Plus he actively went on a PR and propaganda offensive to keep it from regulation Lawyers are denying and all that

[@nathanramage1275]

I think another large problem is once the economy really took a hit, the thneed was just too big. It was practically a staple (based on circumstantial evidence). Large companies end up making the pillars of an economy. Imagine if Wal-Mart suddenly stopped. Sure, competitors would fill the need for the consumer, but remember, Wal-Mart is the second largest employer in the United States, right behind the US Government (which includes the military). All those people simply without a job. Taxes from incomes and whatever the company just cant weasel out of paying suddenly gone. Millions of dollars that would get recirculated stop flowing. I think the Once-ler was A) a bad businessman and B) the greed of his overbearing and dominant family forced his hand early on, and by the time the crisis at hand was unavoidable, it was going to cause massive repercussions to stop. As someone else pointed out, the Lorax and the Once-ler just couldn't agree. The Lorax wouldn't except any trees being cut down, when they really didn't need to be. Look at the tools his family was using, little clamp things that grabbed a single tuff at a time. Ladders and baskets would've been more sustainable. TL;DR Still not the Once-ler's fault for being a bad businessman, but also his oppressive and greedy family, and the unwillingness of the Lorax to compromise combined with the unimaginable demand of the thneed by the consumers caused this apocalyptic catastrophe

[@bakedbaker9882]

@@nathanramage1275 Beautifully written. :) I agree.

[@tayloranderson7547]

For real life

[@Cardboard-Animations]

I always thought the family was the villains because they force him to chop down the trees, and then when they run out, the mother is disappointed in him.

[@inugeek411]

I actually have a theory that Onceler could've just made a device to hoist his family HIGHER so they can harvest MORE tufts without needing to cut down the tree since it wasn't the WOOD they wanted to begin with

[@soupoup]

@@inugeek411 probably but they’re too greedy and impatient hhh

[@inugeek411]

@@soupoup yeah, true

[@inugeek411]

@@panigbrowardcollege they weren't using the wood! It was a waste to cut down the trees if they just needed the tufts! Planting more does nothing to solve that problem! It might even cause overforestation!

[@inugeek411]

@@panigbrowardcollege I would assume they'd use brick and mortar or plaster and cement to build factories instead of wood since that stuff is more hardy. As for overforestation, you're suggesting messing with the ecosystem. Onceler didn't need to do all that. If he'd just created something to mass harvest tufts, he could've left the ecosystem alone, still mass produce the thneeds, BY HAND, and STILL keep the consumers happy...ish

[@rosinbutnotforaviola]

BTW, it is referenced in “How Bad Can I Be” that the Onceler wasn’t being honest about his bad business practices. He was lying to consumers and using business tactics to get them to buy more thneeds, even though he wasn’t replenishing the forests. In addition, the Onceler is depicted as being relatively intelligent, but instead of harnessing that to create a device that could harvest the tufts at a faster rate (which would then grow back in, I’m assuming, the spring), he decides to cut down the trees, which in general is his mother’s fault for pushing him over the edge. The puppeteer behind this “evil” corporate megamind is his mom.

[@Spook_Boi]

overbearing moms are bad 👍

[@catbutonyoutube424]

he just has mommy issues

[@dolphinswilltakeover]

Um idk about blaming his mother for everything he does when the Lorax was literally advising basically the entire movie that what he’s doing is bad, but otherwise yea.

[@AmateurCreep]

he also commited charity fraud to get people to buy more!

[@mehakverma7043]

"And the lawyers are denying" is a quote from hbcib, meaning that he def lied abt some things and got caught up in some law suits. But those voices were shut out with the help of his lawyers. In biggering, he said "who cares if some things are dying" meaning he knew the impact cutting down trees and releasing smog does. At the end of the day, the Once-ler knew what he was doing, and he could have put a stop to it, but he didn't.

[@Daniel_Schmaniel]

Fun fact, the term sin comes from an archery term meaning to miss the target. So you could reasonably say that Illumination Entertainment sinned with the Lorax.

[@kitkatkittenss]

i- i dont think you should phrase it that way

[@xOrionNebula2708]

👀

[@ExDixionconderoga]

And that’s a fact

[@althealee9375]

“It’s not evil, it’s just stupid” idk why but I love this line

[@MercuryA2000]

Its just so simple. And as someone who likes Hanlon's razor, I'm gonna roll with it.

[@kieranmcginley1262]

Everybody watching Dr. Doofenshmirtz be like:

[@benaring2875]

America in a nutshell

[@AnInsideJoke]

I'm starting to feel like this is a good explanation for 2020 as well.

[@jjsix6943]

"your oner I'm just stupid"

[@neshapink17]

Question: Where did all the Thneeds go? Even if they went out of style with how useful they are I'd think at least one person would keep it.

[@XxPeaceNinjaxX]

Well with as much use as they were getting, being the tool for ANY TASK EVER, they probably just got old and wore out. And since all the trees were gone they couldn't replace them. And its been probably about 60 years since they were invented, 40 since they stopped being manufactured so thats plenty of time for them to just be used up

[@Justaspacequeen]

And where did all the money go?

[@capturestudios9433]

Maybe ohare got rid of the thneeds to make sure no one cared about trees

[@abhik-skys4045]

@Nightcrawler bruh

[@groovychipmunk8819]

I mean it’s called theedville

[@asdunlavey]

Like the Lorax, Danny Devito is a short guy with godly powers.

[@raptorfae.6645]

Yes

[@kaljackal9052]

I've never seen them both in the same room. You recon they're the same person?

[@hyprspd]

@@kaljackal9052 hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[@DTux5249]

@@kaljackal9052 DON'T! YOU'VE KILLED US ALL! NO ONE MAY LIVE TO TELL THE TALE

[@peekingthrottle5502]

Godly Powers?🤔

[@guyguiseman152]

Fun fact: illumination cut the song "biggering" from the movie as it paints the onceler (aka the evil corporate business man aka illumination themselves) as the most evil man in the world meanwhile in "how bad can i be?" He's just a wittle stupid guy and we all make mistakes which is a tactic used by big companies to seem innocent when something bad such as: purposfully bad security on websites, unsafe caves that they are fully aware are unsafe, ect. In these situations they dont fix it untill someone finds it out then they act stupid then and only then will they fix the problem

[@poymannyng1845]

I'll tell you who the REAL villain is, whoever decided Biggering and the original concepts were to be scrapped, I'll never get over it

[@mariomaster101official]

True

[@bakedbaker9882]

Blame the suits at Illumination. They don't appreciate thoughtful art. They're too afraid to make themselves look bad! They're the ones who agreed to use THIS movie in distasteful ads.

[@shaansingh6048]

what's biggering?

[@nootnoot7088]

FOR REAL

[@mcrain1283]

@@shaansingh6048 biggering is an alternative song version of how bad can I be but someone thought it was too complicated or whatever for children so they switched it up with how bad can I be and I don't know if I should be happy or mad because I love both songs

[@supxrkicks560]

The Lorax was so close to being a legitimately great film. The original draft of Thneedville's intro and of course Biggering (which became "How bad can I be") show a ton of untapped potential. Honestly, just having part of Thneedville being like was shown in the movie and another part of poor people living without fresh air would've added a ton of depth to it already. Changing Ted's ambitions from wanting to impress a girl to wanting what he doesn't have would've added to it as well. Showing the Onceler's slow descent into being a greedy, corporate CEO who puts profit over the environment would've been the cherry on top.

[@Lettuce__321]

I agree I'm actually kinda disappointed of what this film became :// (Also biggering slaps they should've kept it in haysjsvs)

[@RealNikTrustMe]

I think EA and Pokemon took inspiration from this movie

[@foeloko]

Cool too bad cuz it didn’t happen

[@TiredArtist3475]

I definitely agree

[@bartholemeowthefirst]

But why though? Sure that seems interesting in theory, but honestly, it sounds like a more copy-pasted idea. Oh, the businessman is bad cause business is stupid. It ignores the logical arguments for and against capitalist societies. to me, the message in the Lorax isn't that business is bad, it's that educated consumer's triumph over bad business practices.

[@taylorschwamb2314]

literally the entire time I watched this movie, I just wondered why they didn’t find a more efficient way to harvest the “leaves” instead of chopping the trees down or using the weird single leaf collector thing, ladders literally would’ve been more efficient, just climbing up and grabbing a handful would’ve been better than both the other options and to this day I don’t understand how not a single person thought of that

[@freshbread4039]

same

[@dweebteambuilderjones7627]

Originally, Onceler made his family do this, plucking individual tufts out and leaving the rest of the tree alive. His family pressured him into cutting them down because otherwise they wouldn't approve of him.

[@madisonwillis9591]

This is just smart from a business perspective as well. You make things out of this resource that's limited and that can't be made otherwise? You preserve that resource as best you can. Sure, the Onceler made a lot of money all at once, but then couldn't make more or anything and became a recluse/hermit because he could do it for a good time, but not a long time. And heck, with all the time and money invested into the tree chopping machine, he could've spent that time designing and building a tree plucking machine that would only remove the top of the tree, allowing it to regrow and him to continue selling and manufacturing product. Basic stonks and kapitalism people.

[@diersteinjulien6773]

You would think so, but I will point you toward a real life industry: fishing. It's incredibly easier for fishing boats to just catch everything and anything, and then throw out what doesn't interest them (usualy killing it in the process), than to carefuly taylor their nets to only catch the type of fish they want. That's exactly the same here. It's easier and cheaper to mow down the trees and filter the leaves, than to take a ladder and pick them up a few at a time.

[@godricktheminecrafted3113]

Big corporate company Need I say more?

[@poorman1168]

the only thing i disagreed about was the consumers during the once-lers business empire because in the once-lers song you can hear that the media is covering what is happening within the company and its boundaries. the consumers probably wouldnt have known and yet although they would have been almost gasping for air they wouldn’t have been able to find out. unless they had no control over their land and people casually walked onto it the media discloses everything

[@meepynotsus2037]

I think that the big villain is the Onceler’s mom, she told him to start cutting trees. Ted opened the Thneedville wall with that bulldozer, so he let all that smog in. There’s no way that one tree could clear all that smog!

[@NeonRahkshi]

plus, trees don't clear smog, it kills them the same as us it must fall and settle to rot on the ground, as smog is choking to all!

[@suncanny1418]

That's why the film's message doesn't make sense , instead of making Onceler a someone who is completely aware of his actions but wants more anyway , they made him into this poor guy that got manipulated by his family and simply follows his dreams without seeing the damage he's doing , If you compare "how bad can I be" with the demo version "bigerring" you can clearly see that in bigerring he knew what he was doing but simply *didn't care*

[@deezgod45]

@@suncanny1418 biggering is such a bop

[@meganbastable544]

@@suncanny1418 it's kinda annoying cause if you think about it there will never be a movie by a big movie studio that truly condems corporations. Why would they do that when you can make a catchy song that will make you more money. They will never condem themselves there's a video called "the song that could have saved the onceler" and it does bring up the song biggering and it make some really good points

[@SolBin-b4m]

I blame the mother for making him cut the trees

[@angel._psychic]

Fun Fact: In french, “how bad can I be” has a line that says “I know it’s bad, but whatever” this shows The Onceler knew what he was doing, and not as innocent as he seems.

[@mannythemaniac1009]

Listen to Biggering

[@angel._psychic]

@@mannythemaniac1009 I already did

[@loudsoup9185]

Of course it's the french

[@Lowkeym4rkkk]

he's not french tho he wouldn't know?

[@angel._psychic]

DAWG ITS A FUN FACT WHY ARE PPL SO MAD 😰

[@itsdannydude]

The one thing Mat-Pat and everyone are not pointing out is the fact that the water is really toxic the kid is glowing

[@centricthemedic1517]

No this is kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLaZapvjMyLmbM In all seriousness, thank you

[@alexismyers6053]

Yeah, I was waiting for that to be thrown in as a joke at the very least...

[@birdlisa58]

Ye i agree, but does he show signs of health problems besides becoming green.

[@OnBrandRP]

@@centricthemedic1517 Nice try, but I recognize that link from a mile away.

[@roseofhappilove6841]

Yeah 😂 as toxic as the Tumblr fandom

[@Vinnysrawrz]

The first time I watched the Lorax, I realized the message. It’s actually much more deeper than we thought.

[@troythompson6306]

lore axe

[@RustyGator]

MatPat acknowledging the existence of Onceler x Evil Onceler is probably the most cursed thing Ive heard this week

[@beacon626]

Wait wut-

[@qwertyuio404]

@@taralamlam1961 Why have you been replying to everyone’s comments with a link to a video of how to convert PDF files to a Word document? What exactly does that have to do with the Lorax?

[@hotdogstockimage]

@@qwertyuio404 he's trying to get views by placing the link to his video into the comments. He most likely doesn't care about the video, but what do I know

[@kanataslover]

I've seen worst.....

[@archermon373]

"This week", I've never heard a more apt way to describe the internet

[@tommy6therockstarhogan244]

Fun fact: If biggering actually existed, Oncler would've been a DEMON. He basically get's addicted to money and ACKNOWLEDGES he's destroying the forest and killing animals, but never stops

[@nayellirodarte1065]

Finally! Someone addresses "Biggering"!

[@tommy6therockstarhogan244]

@@nayellirodarte1065 wait wut I thought someone else by now would've mentioned it ONCE

[@dumbledoratheexplorer1252]

agreed. I listened to it too and it makes us see a different Once-ler and it would keep the story AT the point. rn the songs are just vibes keeping the movie up

[@MariaCampos-ye2ee]

@@dumbledoratheexplorer1252 yeah I agree the songs makes him like a true villian and he actually wanting to cut down the trees

[@ryanfleming927]

I wouldn’t exactly say it makes him a demon. I feel like the purpose of biggering was to show how someone with good intentions can become blinded by greed.

[@bellesoares8523]

My favorite part from this movie was always the “let it die, let it die, let it shrivel you and die” the way Mr.Ohare just claps and taps his feet was so fucking funny

[@tylerandari12]

Same here lol

[@Dumbaxxi]

Me and my friend at school after the teacher said she was pregnant: (in private ofc)

[@haleyhershey7398]

@@Dumbaxxi wtaf…

[@Dumbaxxi]

@@haleyhershey7398 Lmafo

[@Dumbaxxi]

We did the dance too, we were in the bathroom when nobody was in there

[@hillstudiosproductions]

We need to talk about the fact that the Onceler plays an electric guitar that for some reason does not require external amplification

[@troyboyplays]

That’s what im saying

[@meihatsume6486]

hot take: The real villain is the mom. The onceler just wanted to make his product, but he'd been so broken down by his mom constantly telling him that he was and would always be a failure, that finally getting validation from her blinded him to everything else, including the fact that she was a gold digger and wanted to cut down trees to make more money

[@sirsteam181]

You're right but If only they went with Biggering a better story would have been had.

[@frost9731]

That's the biggest issue. Illumination copped out, they made the Onceler as likeable and innocent seeming as possible as he commits atrocities. He never once truly looks around him at the damage he havocs and we can just blame his mother. It shows that he is unconscious of his actions to the most part except that he's killing a few trees. The movie doesn't hold him accountable of his actions as being self aware and propagates the idea that these Big Businesses are all innocent and when something goes wrong that they found out years ago but decided not to do anything to save money they have "plausible deniability " . It's not their fault, they had no idea that what they were doing was wrong.

[@fatty1040]

Idk everyone has a will and the unwillingness to express that will is also what is wrong. They both are at fault or how the theory puts it everyone in the movie is at fault.

[@devon4498]

Consider checking out my reaction vid

[@aidenfurry471]

@@frost9731 and here you are missing the point of the video, who's buying what they're selling? who's telling them to keep going, to keep cutting down trees and keep charging for air? blaming it all on the businesses does nothing. letting the businesses off the hook does nothing. how many people talking about climate change and big business do you think will call out China for their massive hand in it, heck Bernie, Mr "big business is bad" himself won't call them out because they're communist

[@HELLO-mx6pt]

Matt pat : "I'm sorry, but I can't fault a guy with a dream, that overcomes adversity to get tremendous success, as the bad guy here" Also mattpat: "Remy is the villain of ratatouille"

[@badradish2116]

got em

[@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx]

He's kinda hypocritical somehow.

[@freddyfazboi1632]

Remy is a rat and kidnapped the villain and health inspector

[@Drowned-Hubris]

@NickTara also remy is a rat in a RESTAURANT

[@Quorented]

I'm gonna write this here since.. no one will see it in the 20k comments. This movie closely resembles real life. Humans think the government are bad and that they never give us freedom yet they are really giving us all we need and want.. the trouble is humans don't have a limit they want and want and want until there are no resources left.. like trees for products like in the movie.. Are we being contained maybe are we being treated with a slap on the wrist if we do something we shouldn't maybe.. but in the end we have food, happiness and thriving civilisation.. humans just don't have a limit or respect current or future generations of living live even if it's as simple as a flower or a leaf.

[@godsnintendog]

I both love and hate the fact that the Lorax fandom and the hipster Onceler fandom are almost entirely separate fandoms.

[@LunaticoniSolar]

Ikr. It's the rivalry even in the fandom

[@XenoflareBahamut]

reminds me of the Final Fantasy fandom

[@TAKTlmao]

I have read the word "fandom" so many times in this comment and it's replies that my brain is lagging

[@Un.knowns]

Like the Five Nights at Freddy’s fandom? There are quite a few different mini-fandoms. You have the fangame fandom, the new fandom, the old fans, Theory people, normal players, the FNiA fandom (most of us stay away from them for the sexualization). There are so many-

[@negativeiqpoints396]

@@Un.knowns I would say the theory and old players are on the same boat, because old fans grew up watching theory video after theory video

[@varangiangaming7178]

I don't know how much actual credit one could give O'Hare for the air quality as it isn't really outright stated the extent to the role he plays or how that place even has breathable air to begin with. As for the Onceler and his stupidity, he's absolutely to blame. At any point he could've grown a spine or done the right thing and told his family to get out of his life. Not only that but there is such a thing as criminal negligence, so stupidity will not save you from violating the law.

[@armaansharma]

No joke, as Matpat was explaining the uselessness of O'hare's "fresher" air, I got an ad for an air purifier!

[@vpirules95]

I love it when stuff like that happens

[@thefruityghost]

I got an add for smart water right after he compared the bottled air to bottled water

[@epion660]

To be fair, depending on where you live an Air Purifier actually can be good for you. A heavily industrialized area would benefit from it.

[@gogogoing8122]

忍者 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJqcZaqmhrpknNU

[@brandondoserandomstuff9000]

SAME!

[@Gilamath.]

See, this is the issue with The Lorax, though. MatPat is basically pointing out that the Onceler and O’Hare are selling luxury goods, so consumer spending is the only thing driving production. Fair enough. But, luxury goods aren’t the real-life polluters In real life, people without access to public transportation need cars. Car companies and oil businesses fight really really hard to prevent public transportation from reaching more people. In real life, people need to heat their homes. Energy companies fight to keep renewable energy from gaining any significant share in the energy market. And so on, and so on Sufficiently large corporations don’t merely serve the market; they define it. They get to smother competitors and resist innovation, even when competition shed innovation are vital

[@pikachubutdio5168]

Cool

[@notnigul39]

i see your point here, but we as consumers are ignorant, i have seen people gleefuly ignore climate change, refusing to research so i guess both are the bad guys here

[@honestlyiris274]

exactly, companies profit off of people's basic needs. when the options are to die or live and support an unethical company, there really is no option.

[@Jane_8319]

Precisely

[@r3b0x91]

The onceler has what is essentially a monopoly on Thneeds, if a rival were to come in and challenge his industry AND replenished resources, the Onceler would be done for. Large corporations can and do attempt to smother competitors but in the long run, more efficient forms of energy such as nuclear would win out because it is cleaner and most importantly CHEAPER for the consumer. It’s a large reason why China is still using coal energy when nuclear is better in every way, it’s a communist country with the consumers not defining the market whereas in places like the US where Nuclear energy accounts for nearly half of the total energy supply.

[@horriblelifechoices5780]

Matpat: “In a way, he’s kinda heroic” The character in question: *has his own secret police*

[@historynerd205]

@Leo Roman Mabiasen I feel like it's more about the fact he's using them to silence anyone trying to learn more about the history of the city or even just trying to leave.

[@trollerjakthetrollinggod-e7761]

@Aun Hathiari yes

[@terrariangolden6985]

@@historynerd205 the problem of leave the city is because you DIES, if you get out, you gonna go back immediataly, because of the bad air, so you willl NEED to go back

[@frederickwilliams4727]

well they act as if they where the gestapo

[@--------352]

@Aun Hathiari yes

[@goldensentinel7715]

I blame the Oncelers family more. It's clear that they only started to care for him once he started to get money. And the minute he stops making money, they say he's nothing but a disappointment and abandons him. He couldn't say no to his mother because he wanted her to be proud of him for once and they family no doubt broke down his will to say no to them. It's hard to go against toxic parents when you want them to show you support for once in your life. It also seemed like he was trying convince himself before his song and as it got further in, he was blinded by his success and only realized what he had done when it was too late.

[@alexfirefly1956]

Dr. Seuss isn't just turning in his grave. He's rotating so quickly he's drilling a hole into the earths core!

[@MovieFan1912]

And he’s racing against other big names to get there, including William Hanna and Joseph Barbera, Walt Disney, and many more I don’t have the time to mention.

[@bruh-ux1ns]

@@MovieFan1912 Tom Clancy too.

[@Ryan-pg1tw]

you should be more respectful i think

[@bossbaddiegames]

@@Ryan-pg1tw oh my god anyone from the future who sees my comment have a look at Ryan (the chap I’m replying to here - just in the case he changes his name). I’ve taken screenshots for my own recorded proof. All he does is reply to people on this channel telling them - in different ways so it’s not just copy and paste - to be more respectful. It’s so really fucking weird!

[@adrienstarfaer]

@@bossbaddiegames That is really weird -

[@AgentH53]

I blame Lorax. He didn't tell Onceler about tree seeds or saplings until AFTER all the trees were gone.

[@baconboiii67]

I blame The Onclers family, because they convinced him to cut down the trees. He might of thought of cutting them down himself but...If his parents didn't come i feel like he would listen to the Lorax

[@cryingchild4460]

@@baconboiii67 Hi Elizabeth

[@St4r_Z0mb13]

The One-ler's family wouldn't have let him anyway

[@refrigator]

*gasp* HE'S RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

[@axolotl_boba7641]

DONT BLAME THE LORAX

[@wr6676]

There are a lot of "bad guys" in this film. It is all about perspective.

[@spookyho5994]

✨perspective✨ I agree tho

[@ThePorcelainMoth]

Precisely

[@meowtuber5259]

Something that I found really interesting: there is a cut demo version of how bad can i be called Biggering. In that version the onecler is clearly aware of what he is doing, but he continues to destory the environment because he wants to feed his pride hie greed. The sad thing is that it didn't make it into the movie because it was supposedly too dark, but everyone knows that it was just too relatble for the massive corporations such as illumination producing this movie. The song had a much stronger message that said that even if some ceo is extremely likeable and relatble and nice, that doesn't mean he can't be as bad or even worse than other CEOs. Plus the song is fucking BANGER.

[@unholierthanthou7748]

"It seems... Not bad at all" Sir there is a glowing child.

[@kingdamazo7266]

Glowing? Yes Harmed? Nope

[@unholierthanthou7748]

@@kingdamazo7266 the kid is glowing- what do you mean he's not harmed? That has to have some sort of effect on him that we don't see in the movie

[@kingdamazo7266]

@@unholierthanthou7748 If they didn't animate it or mention it, it didn't happen

[@My_besties-bestie]

Toxic water

[@luvjnell]

@@kingdamazo7266 True

[@mere8320]

"where everyone is happy" I'm starting to think that there is something inside that bottle.

[@Anseptos]

*Oh no..*

[@pavankumarr9163]

*Oh heck N2O*

[@jonathannaranjo6316]

- next time on Film Theory xD

[@darthnerd4432]

Probably

[@luthermorrisjr1657]

@@pavankumarr9163 😂

[@TheXboxLiveShow]

The Once-ler's mother is the real villain in this film. There is a scene in the movie where the Once-ler starts to have second thoughts about chopping all of the trees down because he knew what the outcome was going to be and how much damage he would be doing. And then near the end of the film when all the trees are gone his mother has the gall to say that she is disappointed in him. All because of his mother.

[@derpyshark3305]

The “let it die let it die let it die” line has been stuck in my head since the movie came out

[@KindleSummers]

Let it die let it die let it shrivel up and die🎶 is the best line in the movie and no one can tell me otherwise.

[@evelyndominguez1114]

Same

[@umuh5160]

This is unrelated but- I have the same plush shark as your profile photo and I think that's neat :} Have a nice day/night everyone

[@derpyshark3305]

@@umuh5160 cool

[@MemeMan99]

The trees can’t be harmed if the Lorax is armed.

[@maryclaireholmes7552]

Stay strapped or get clapped- George Washington or something

[@Dreg-Freg]

No lorax, not the children!

[@cmart7983]

Merica

[@cmart7983]

Guns rock

[@malumempireum3471]

Such an underrated poem...

[@mrego886]

Onceler would had been a great villain if they actually kept "biggering" instead of "how bad can I be".

[@honeylemon237]

If only we were in the reality where the “Biggering” cut exists... probably wouldn’t be perfect but it would have somewhat of an actual message.

[@ree5598]

I was so angry they cut out "Biggering". It was so good and I will forever live with the sad fact that we will never get to see that song officially animated and made 😭

[@MegaBradster1]

Yes. They probably cut it cause it was hitting too close to home for illumination

[@subifyouhatetiktokandreddit234]

I know you just watched that video on it

[@lefunny2041]

Wasn't the original book mad with...paper?

[@honeylemon237]

@@subifyouhatetiktokandreddit234 I went on a Lorax deep dive once I knew the onceler fandom existed and biggering was recommended to me and the video on it. God I kinda want to animate the song myself actually now haha

[@notagoat281]

Matpat: "No one is suffering from O'hare's corporate greed." Meanwhile: "Our son Wesley kinda glows"

[@casual_ice_consumer4148]

Of course, Wesley doesn't seem to be having any tumors or symptoms of cancer.

[@notagoat281]

@@casual_ice_consumer4148 : 1 Cancer ain't the only problem that glowing could be connected to, nor is it always obvious (actually in a lot of cases the best time to treat cancer is when you can't tell you have it, because it might be too late by the time anyone realizes it's there). 2 The family literally has a doctor following them around.

[@sexmansex4776]

wait does that mean he is going to be the grand grand grandfather of all for one and one for all?

[@razzytack]

@Johnny Tran I think it's pretty clear the glowing is a reference to radiation poisoning, look up "the radium girls" they're real life women who glowed from handling radiactive paints that their employers told them were safe. The glowed and were beautiful for it but died in several months after working for the company. The negative effects of radiation poisoning aren't immediately apparent

[@razzytack]

@@casual_ice_consumer4148 looks like radiation poisoning, which can lead to cancer but you probably won't live that long for that to really get you especially with how coated Wesley seemed to be lol I give him two weeks

[@kittrellcabrera-ayers7125]

Highly disappointed this isn’t a theory about how the Lorax is the villain of The Lorax

[@gc0009]

ikr? he is just defending capitalism

[@LordTylerBluGunderson]

Same

[@badrecords-6476]

Our trees

[@hello90976h]

Bruh didn’t no one care about trees but now with climate change we all of a sudden care about em

[@gc0009]

@@hello90976h a few people have always been concerned about the environment, but the vast majority do not care because they have their brain washed by the monetary system now the vast majority are concerned with the fear of dying in climatic disasters such as earthquakes, volcanoes and floods, and not with the environment. great.

[@HUK1225]

I think i have a addiction to that “HOW BAD CAN I BE” Because it’s my alarm and my favorite illumination movie

[@mrpayday7055]

The thing is, they originally didn't plan for the onceler to be this way. If you listen to the song that was supposed to be in place "biggering", he truly is the villain but they where like "that's a little to similar to us, we need to make him not the bad guy..."

[@mrpayday7055]

@@elt_rex1974 That isn't even related to this?

[@Zusuk1i]

@@mrpayday7055 I think what theyre tryna say is by using Biggering that would make Onceler the actual bad guy which is bad for marketing since he is technically the storys main focus. How is it related to your comment is becuz you talked about how the song should have been Biggering to actually make Onceler look like a bad guy.

[@ender691]

I thought this was going to be something about the song "biggering" and talking about how the movie was changed to give the Onceler plausible deniability. For example, during the song how bad can I be he doesn't look at what he's doing (litterally) and how at the end when he looks at the last tree being cut down he looks actually shocked because he didn't realize what he was actually doing and how bad his actions were, and a lot of companies in real life also say things like that too like how owners of asbestos mines say that they had no idea that asbestos was that harmful to people but in reality they knew 100% what they were doing. Back to the Lorax though in an early version of the song "how bad can I be"" which at that point was called "biggering" it is made very clear he knows what he's doing and that he doesn't care. An example would be in "biggering" theres the line "So what if some things are dying?" but in "how bad can I be?" was changed to "So what if a few trees are dying" note how some was changes to few and things was changed to trees. God this was so long, anyways thank you for reading my ramblings, goodbye.

[@foolishlyfoolishfolly3209]

I love Biggering!

[@blueberrylu5964]

Best song

[@ise1441]

Who cares if... some things are DYING? I don’t wanna hear your CRYING! This all is so gratiFYING~

[@foolishlyfoolishfolly3209]

I need a bigger office I need a bigger chair

[@foolishlyfoolishfolly3209]

I never thought I would like something Illumination, but honestly it is such a bop.

[@voilet-the-non-violet-vulpix]

Not so much, I think. The customer may be partially to blame, but you can’t strip the provider of blame, because they’re not mindless beings who can only follow the whims of their consumers and they could, at any point, have chosen more sustainable methods. They are choosing to sell the product as-is despite knowing better than anyone how much harm it’s doing. Everyone is to blame here.

[@mickymacanori1768]

Was trying to find this comment. Consumers can only do so much. But without someone to give us what we want, where would we be? Manufacturing our own plastic bottles and plastic waste? I don't think so. Companies have the power to switch to better products, better materials, getting rid of waste better and making sure that their factories are with best practice. But they don't. Perfect example: McDonalds just got rid of the spicy mcnuggets. What are we going to do? Stop going to McDonald's because they stopped giving us spicy nuggets? Uhhh... not really. People will eventually get over it and deal with whatever companies dish out at us.

[@krisguzman341]

@@mickymacanori1768 imagine not getting a burger

[@mickymacanori1768]

@@krisguzman341 I mean now I have to imagine because spicy nuggs are gone

[@treythegamerwolf551]

Better question is why are you buying it

[@voilet-the-non-violet-vulpix]

@@treythegamerwolf551 Because there’s no other way I can see for me to survive.

[@kage1061]

I knew that Illumination missed the point of the Lorax as soon as they replaced "Biggering".

[@justhybrid]

Matpat: no one is harmed from O'Hare's enterprise Me: Are you just going to ignore the little green glowing child in the background?

[@plate_fox]

@@taralamlam1825 silence bot

[@muhammadomar2963]

@@plate_fox u know he ain't a bot cuz he said a fuding thing in the comment plus he just copy paste he ain't a bot

[@DTux5249]

And he's entirely unharmed

[@theunholysmirk]

nah thats his quirk, in 200 yrs society will have superheroes as far as the eye can go

[@feister2869]

The Unholy Smirk EVERYONE THE WEEBS ARE COMING PREPAREEEEEE!!!

[@panzerkampfwagen8439]

"I am the Lorax, and I speak for the trees." "And for some reason, they're speaking Vietnamese."

[@Lily-uz2dn]

I am not the only one who thought of this! Edit: I am Vietnamese

[@missilluminati3389]

Lmao I thought the same

[@KT-rp9tx]

Why are the trees speaking this language? This is a theory we should get MatPat to manage.

[@alanthepianoman]

Very insightful 😂

[@cherrydreams2994]

I don’t get it

[@Baye013]

So, who had ‘Matpat tries to revive the Onceler fandom’ on their 2020 bingo card?

[@aetherrevolt8925]

Not me. I had FNAF :Security Breach delayed bingo card

[@undefinederror40404]

Nope, but honestly, I'm not even surprised. 2020 is just not holding back in any way.

[@ubtpixielox]

Yeah, considering how half thought out most of this video seemed, perhaps that was actually the real goal of this video all along.

[@bullishgroup8304]

They never left

[@thomascook3336]

KZbin's algorithm was heavily pushing lorax videos for the past 2 days for me, so I think he just noticed the trend and made a video to capitalize on it.

[@GhostlyGuardian]

A cut song called “Biggering” shows how the onceler actually saw the situation he caused

[@nola4364]

I see the point in parts of this, but this video is ignoring O’Hare’s propaganda, censorship, etc. Remember when the main character had to run away from O’Hare’s police because O’Hare didn’t want anyone to find out about trees? He wanted to keep a monopoly on clean air (or at least the psychological effect of people thinking their air was fresher) and would go to any lengths to do so. He was violently resistant to allowing the spread of any ideas that challenged the current consumer culture. Also, I doubt that O’Hare’s company wasn’t having any negative effects. The pollution was probably just happening outside of the city and possibly hurting the environment and factory workers there in exactly the same way that factories and mines outside of the U.S. producing products for Americans harm the environment and the workers while hiding that harm away from the consumers. Finally, I feel like the happiness of the people in the city feels fake and shallow and materialistic. There also may be people in poverty, but corporations do tend to silence those people and keep them out of the view of the general public when it’s not good for their image, and societies do the same to make themselves feel better about their consumerism.

[@thecoton6152]

It was a corporocracy so by design O'Hare's company is a monopoly, but there aren't any real life counterpart to such systems. All the actions he took to prevent the further plantation of trees are akin to what a government can do. If anything that sends the message that partnership between a company, who's customer base are the people, and the State should never exist, let alone become one powerful entity.

[@arcadejaguar409]

@@thecoton6152 I believe that a government should be there stop big corporations from becoming too powerful.

[@alia.1041]

@@arcadejaguar409 That’s interesting, what policies would actually do that?

[@miacataldo9076]

Period queen you tell em

[@rigozamora9794]

It’s not that serious lol

[@mrdashell6517]

I was kind of hoping he would be talking about the “Biggering”’song that the Lorax movie intentionally scrapped and replaced with how bad can i be biggering had say about the industry

[@shells7766]

lol dont look at my playlists

[@questworldiangreenknight7455]

That song was interesting

[@coconuts2837]

This lowkey 🔥 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y56ufquim96rgM0

[@danzig2347]

Yeah I watched a video about it a few days ago...

[@MyTran-dn9ti]

asinLoveyunz.link

[@AnimeWolf5193]

I like what Nostalgia Critic said. In the book, the Onceler fell into greed on his own, showing cautiously that even the reader could do this. But by focusing it on the bad guys like the Oncelers family, it takes away that very important distinction. By trying to avoid the Onceler being a bad guy, they ironically made it easier for people to fall into the same problem.

[@SLKibara]

Biggering.

[@anejz1637]

Lorax did do just that at the end of the movie with a quote "UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better."

[@Adele-195]

Him: "You see this" Me: the bullseye? Him: "The point, you missed it"

[@hewhositsuponfroggychair5722]

"The point got on a plane to Venice but you've somehow ended up in Alaska."

[@YungGeezer]

The point is that you tried asking a person out but that person became your worst enemy

[@AMT911]

oof

[@SprinklesServant]

Gabriella Yaksich I thought they were hilarious!

[@Moss_Dude]

One word, or rather one name: "Biggering" That one cut song would've changed everything.

[@wandiriswan6116]

Shame he didn't mention it

[@mich6479]

True, that song was an absolute bop and would've been better than how bad can I be. Apparently they cut the song cause it was too "scary" or something like that.

[@Moss_Dude]

@@mich6479 They said they cut it because it was too serious, but it's more likely because it has a much better message about corporate corruption... while being made by a company.

[@mr.mirage3986]

Do You even explore movies? Did You see the classic movie? The message here in all three songs is "I can do whatever I want, since if I wouldn't do it , someone else would." So if that song is humanizing, so is how bad can I be. Also, I saw one of You idiotssay thatbiggering doesn't get stuck in Your head,like How bad can I be does.and that just is a move against Yourself. How.bad can I be is a great song, and that is why it gets stuck in Your head.

[@mr.mirage3986]

@@Moss_Dude No, You hairy triangle, You sharp fork. You furry water. You frozen man. Read My other comment. It exactly says why How Bad Can I Be is not omly a good song, but also has the message of biggering.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

_"I am the Lorax and I speak for the trees. Save the Amazon, or I'll break your knees."_ *~ The Lorax*

[@john.harrison]

the company or the area?

[@flamingcat1101]

@@john.harrison both

[@lilquacky4965]

Because of the fees i cant buy my cheese

[@LucyWest370]

I am the Lorax I speak for the trees. They say ouch.

[@blaghgames5050]

@@LucyWest370 Wow

[@epicnacho_s]

3:07 it’s 3 story’s not 2. At the begin you see that the lorax is telling this story.

[@orphan_eater.1]

i watched the lorax 13 times its 69

[@_Lavva_]

Dr.seuss: *best at rhyming* Matpat: He’s actually lying Edit: Huh. I never expected to get this many likes. Thanks.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Sorry, but the truth is, Matt gets things partly mind-numbingly wrong here. For once, he assumes that all Consumers naturally know what's best for them, which is just objectively wrong. Totally, totally wrong. And: Of course the consumers are solid part of the problem, but talking like the producers of these problems are by no means at fault, is laughably bad. He makes it clear he thinks they are no Villains, which is just again wrong. Matt obviously knows not much about Capitalism and gets a lot wrong. Logic-wise and story-wise. ...On a side note, he also overlooked a certain green-glowing boy, but whatever... But mostly his logic is just wrong.

[@SomeGuyOnYT]

@@slevinchannel7589 shut up with this copyposta crap

[@FlintSteel220]

Things I learned from this: O'Hare and, to a lesser extent, Once Ler have done good things. Things I disagree with: that and their consumers excuse the ways they go about doing business. The Once Ler still decimated the environment when he could've been planting seeds as he went, or even just continuing to pluck leaves harmlessly. O'Hare still actively pumps smog into the air so it's easier to sell his product, and refuses to let a tree grow since it'll hurt his company in the long run.

[@ok-bo8ml]

process, yeah that's understandable, but it doesn't look like o hare is actually hurting anyone.

[@definitely-not-green8889]

@@ok-bo8ml how is purposely pumping smog into the sky to sell more of your products not hurting anyone?

[@ok-bo8ml]

@@definitely-not-green8889 what negative affects on the people in thneedville is the smog causing, cause i didn't see any

[@definitely-not-green8889]

@@ok-bo8ml the people of thneedville were never really shown much highlight in the film except the opening song and the last song, yet you expect them to show us the people being negatively effected by the affects of smog, and radiation which we do see in the movie with the glowing kid, basic knowledge would tell us that factories pumping smog into the atmosphere would have terrible effects on the people, some of which aren't seen until later in a person's life. We can probably assume that the people absolutely have to buy the air (the fact that they have to pay says to me that families who can't afford the constant supply of air will go for short periods without it, which would have perverse effects on them)or they will suffer from the effects. The movie isn't actually brave enough to mention the fact that people have probably died or some have lung problems and shortened lifespans. It's a family film that doesn't actually teach kids the effects greedy corporations have on the planet so of course they wouldn't show this. Basically the reason you don't see any of the people suffering is because the movie is too tame to atleast show some coughing

[@ok-bo8ml]

@@definitely-not-green8889 Did you watch the video...? and exactly it's a family film and a cartoon, yes the glowing boy, but did we actually see any negative things happen to him ? was he suffering ? sure we can assume it's radiation, but the radiation isn't actually hurting anyone. All these things you're saying are justified and make sense, but they're assumptions, possibilities, indefinites. Reason being is it's a carton, it's illogical. Simply the fact that 'bottled air' exists should show how different it is from our world. All i'm saying is that we don't know enough about their world to say anything of true value, so it all comes down to your opinion and your POV. regardless of if that changes your mind, thanks for having a civil conversation :)

[@rafaelmcgrathfernando6365]

Matpat: there is no coughing or choking or any side effects Glowing baby: am I a joke to you

[@TheRoomba.]

His just glowing tho he looks fine and before you say Radiation, dude think first if there was Radiation in that pool shouldn't he be dead by now or dead *in* the pool where his swimming at. Im not being a trashbag or a jerk just saying bro :3

[@arandominternetuser4507]

@@TheRoomba. Even so, how can glowing ever be a good sign.

[@TheRoomba.]

@@arandominternetuser4507 i never said it was a good sign

[@shrimpo1530]

Then again, the kid doesn’t seem to complain about glowing lol

[@TheRoomba.]

@@shrimpo1530 yep

[@monkeking_2144]

I was jokingly showing a friend the song how bad can I be and he said that the all of the Lorax looks like a fever dream.

[@nerdy_evy]

It was really weird that the Oncler had the seed and he could have planted it at any time he just never did. he just waited for another person to come along and say "you need to make it better plant the tree"

[@DemitriVladMaximov]

@@nerdy_evy Well in the original story it was supposed to be symbolic of the fact there was still hope and that the future was in the kid's hands on what he would do. As for why the Oncler didn't do it, maybe he felt that he deserved to have the guilt for what he did and couldn't make it right. Alternatively he had tried but failed and that one last seed was the last one left and he couldn't bear to try again. We will never know as Dr. Seuss left it very open as it was a kid's book afterall.

[@sockshandle]

@@DemitriVladMaximov the pollution would have killed the seed for one

[@allisterthebirb4142]

@Nerdy Evy I always thought it was because if he planted it himself, O’Hare would chop it down before it could germinate and spread. With the MC exposing O’Hare and people protecting the tree, it would be able to spread and rebuild what once was.

[@shoooja]

I put my seed in u

[@jormungandrtheworldserpent8382]

I always thought it was simply because he needed the next generation to care so once he died there was someone to continue the fight who would then pass it on until they finally fixed the problem

[@genericalias2179]

"The onceler isn't that bad, you'll see!" Hear that? That's the sound of millions of teenagers re-writing their fanfictions.

[@el9703]

Oh god, the oncelings are returning, MATPAT WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

[@ilikenougat8892]

@@el9703 MATPAT WHY

[@lexverdi2821]

@@el9703 XD

[@brgan557]

I can't belive there are onceler stans

[@docrofreborn7497]

Umm... guys? Is horizon dust meant to smell like daddy issues, teenage angst and burnt pens?

[@randomstuffc.j.o1408]

"You think people are stupid enough to buy this?" Me : *yes, yes they do*

[@gucciroseii3517]

@ apple releasing those $550 headphones

[@Diobrando-dn2mx]

Uhm i buy this for my friend and we watch it then we loose money to that dumb movie

[@marielyc2424]

LMAOO

[@joe12_3]

@@gucciroseii3517 or the magnetic iPhone 11

[@Usoda_]

A brick with a logo on it

[@沌]

6:49 well no. Fresh clean water is not easily accessible. You have river water that is really dirty, you have sea water which is also dirty and salty and then you have tap water which in my country and many others is unhealthy to drink.

[@lulufan100]

I get what MatPat is going for, but sometimes consumers don't know how their purchases harm the environment. Go to any typical grocery store, how many staple products can you get that have recyclable packaging? What are you supposed to do, not eat? Not everyone can afford organic food or compostable packaging, too. Some companies are also using the desire to for sustainable products as a marketing tactic, using that as an excuse to increase prices.

[@petermoore3076]

And that is their fault. A consumer has the obligation to investigate; they just don't.

[@bugsbunny5005]

☝️ Socialist

[@terrelldurocher3330]

Is that not what life is trial and error.

[@lulufan100]

Not all consumers can investigate every single thing they buy. The availability is the problem. There are indeed people who could care less about their impact on the environment, but I know I don't go to the store thinking, "Oh boy, what's going into a landfill today?"

[@Nick_nm]

Dude even if I get something recyclable I’m still throwing it in the garbage all the crap ends up in the same place

[@haunted1659]

Thats all good and everything, but what about the unused song "biggering" where the onceler sings about how he doesn't care how much pollution he puts out, he just wants more and more and more and doesn't care about what dies

[@mcphoogirl9988]

I really wish we got this song animated, it’s so cool

[@invaderzimzim4561]

YES!!!

[@haunted1659]

@@n646n and matpat hasn't used stuff that has been in deleted scenes before? Either you use it and it counts or it doesn't, can't just choose when it counts and when it doesn't when you like

[@BielSmashJackeJoaoDeliciasS2]

@@haunted1659 Well considering it is his channel, he can definitely choose when it count and when it doesn't

[@haunted1659]

@@BielSmashJackeJoaoDeliciasS2 so he's not applying it to all his theories then? So he's not actually having his theories in his best interest and is just making videos to capitalise on sponsors and ads? Really pushes home the "you guys destroyed the environment and these guys aren't to blame" message instead of holding them accountable as well

[@omniscientbarebones]

If only we did get "Biggering" instead of "How Bad Can I be" We woulda gotten cinema gold... *but no Illumination couldn't have a song that hit too close to home...* *"A portion of profits get donated to charity."* BTW they basically played themselves with that song, (Biggering) that's why it got cut.

[@omniscientbarebones]

"How to conver- *SHUT UP!*

[@bizarremooncartoons]

too true

[@_Emmathedevil_]

My school always is talking to us about how plastic is ruining the planet yet in the cafeteria they sell water in a plastic bottle….

[@ziau.s9283]

Yeah…

[@WhiteTreeRightful]

I feel like this misses the relationship between advertising and consumers. O'hare advertises his business EVERYWHERE -- on billboards, on TV, on vehicles. So of course people were gonna buy whatever he sold them, they live in a corporatocracy. The theory makes the assumption that consumers always make informed desicions about their purchases, but especially in a society which is run by a corporation, people aren't very likely to receive education about advertising and consumerism beyond "buy a bunch of stuff." So of course the citizens of thneedville are going to buy things they don't need; they live in a society where they are told 24/7 that they should be buying O'hare's products.

[@ducttapemaster1408]

Manufactured consent is another aspect, though more focused on politics rather than consumerism

[@sumsarsiranen]

This

[@ThyVirtue]

Matt's argument holds simply because the consumer has the power. The same mechanisms that inspired the alleged change in the movie is the exact same that would inspire an awareness that demand controls the market. if brainwashing and advertisement were as effective as you suggest then the protagonists wouldn't have ever thought to see a tree or desire to see them return. I think the movie displays two common evils present even in this comment section. Gullibility and manipulation. selfish, short sighted consumers exampled by the woke activist who buys corporate product. And greedy , pretentious corporations that trick people into buying those products with dishonest business practices.

[@ThyVirtue]

@Abyssal Horror Sure, thats definitely a scenario that would take place. The people in the movie however are very fickle, mob mentality also has a part to play also. I agree the movie does over simplify things.

[@grandempressvicky6387]

THANK YOU!

[@randylol5370]

"Everyone is happy," Bro a kid started to glow after going in a pool. But I get what you were trying to say.

[@moved.3258]

Time stamp?

[@bambyscooter4365]

dude the kid dint show any sign of being unhappy thru out the movie, so yes everyone is happy

[@randylol5370]

I guess he was not complaining, but I remember the parents were complaining at the end. Or am I just dumb

[@markr.7172]

Hey I’m Brooklyn

[@bryanthegoat9593]

@@bambyscooter4365 being unhappy isn’t even the issue . Ya act like happiness is the goal. The issue is the kid is FUCKING GLOWING because of the pollution , it doesn’t matter if he’s happy or not

[@christophercampbell6884]

Matpat is like the king of making "The villain is right" theories.

[@pendragongameart]

Well, he never said the villains were right, just that they were unopposed by the masses

[@HelluvaOpp]

*God of Villain is right theories*

[@PJOZeus]

He may be the king of making ‘the villain is right’ theories, but he’s not wrong

[@HelluvaOpp]

@@PJOZeus you’re missing the word “be”

[@PJOZeus]

@@HelluvaOpp you saw nothing, I blame the heat (but thanks)

[@h58javed]

The message of the movie is that people will buy anything as long as it’s packaged and evil corporations are killing nature because of it.

[@miserableghandi7960]

I'm sorry but the Onceler having "mommy issues" makes so much sense

[@powerbankcinema9731]

correction: no

[@Reactiontime6000]

@@powerbankcinema9731 Correction: no One asked

[@Brit_3sc.]

@@Reactiontime6000 LOLL

[@baconboiii67]

@@Reactiontime6000 LOL

[@baconboiii67]

Mhm!

[@joshuanovak1028]

Lets also not forget how O’Hare straight up threatened Tim and told him not to look for trees because they give air away for free and it’s bad for business

[@patriotslover1014]

Except they had free air that O'Hare produced anyway. He just didn't want the idea that you could get air for free to be out there because then his consumers realize they've been paying him for a novelty.

[@caitlinst.pierre182]

@@patriotslover1014 and that's bad?

[@patriotslover1014]

@@caitlinst.pierre182 No it's not bad. I wwaws replying to the original post.

[@PrincessButterflySadie]

I know people say that Ted only wants a "tree" to win the heart of Audrey, but after listening to the Once-ler's story and receiving the last seed, he seems to care more about the trees than before and will do anything to protect the seed from O'hare during the movie.

[@barboraklepalova3886]

Nice profile picture

[@PrincessButterflySadie]

@@barboraklepalova3886 Thank you

[@fuzzyplanet4159]

I agree

[@NeonRahkshi]

yep, you could say audrey only planted the seedling of the desire...

[@unnamed1613]

Just an adition to the "managed forests" and their sustainability. While it is good to actively sustain a regrowing ressource by basicly making a tree farm, it´s still bad for the climate if these managed forests get out of hand to the point where nearly every forest is managed by companies. Managed forests are usually monocultured, meaning the corporations plant only one or two types of trees, which grow faster and thous can be harvested earlier than, say, an oak. This leads to problems for the trees themself since diseases spread faster. The monoculture also makes the soil in these forests less fertile and cause smaller plants like farns and herbs to die which, by extend, deprive the wildlife of food sources causing a chain reaction in the ecosystem.

[@ziau.s9283]

Sooo what you’re saying is that the solution was too good to be true. Got it

[@prexleboy3759]

Film Theory: I just can’t fault a hard working guy with a dream who over comes adversity to achieve tremendous success. Also Film Theory: Remi is evil

[@PlushieDimension]

Remi?

[@prexleboy3759]

@@PlushieDimension he made a ratatouille video a few months ago

[@moth4434]

Remi could have carried disease in a restaurant where many people eat

[@prexleboy3759]

@@moth4434 and the onceler destroyed all of the trees

[@moth4434]

@@prexleboy3759 and people kept buying the things that he was selling but he forgot the replanting part. Remi on the other hand was let in by a random boy who was just a garbage boy even when he was told to get rid of the rat he took him back to the restaurant were he could spread disease because of the fact that he was a rat crawling threw trash and threw the sewers and the costumers didn’t know about the fact that they were being served by rats that contaminated lots of the food because they had not been cleaned

[@dragonboyjgh]

Did you miss where Thneedville was a bubble city, and the inflated trees are hiding battery-powered municipal O'Hare fresh air dispensers, that I am absolutely sure O'Hare is getting compensated for via city taxes? That's why Thneedville's air is so breathable compared to the toxic smog almost as soon as you leave. O'Hare's company is basically doing for profit the job that trees used to provide for free, which is why he's against their revival. It's not placebo. They absolutely ARE paying just to breathe, it's just mostly at a societal level. The personal use dispensers seen in homes, those are probably a lot closer to just comfort or placebo as you say since the town's air outside your house is breathable. However, given that it's an enclosed space with an enclosed space, neither having any real air currents, it definitely could get stuffy and stale.

[@AJsVideos187]

Right, but it’s not like he’s withholding, he’s providing. And everyone can afford it, it’s not like anyone has ever been kicked out of the city (as far as we know) I’d say that unless he was the one who made it necessary (which he wasn’t) he’s just doing a service, allowing people to survive at a price they can afford after they dug themselves into a hole by not understanding the consequences of their actions, y’know?

[@skybattler2624]

Tell me how the boy, the lorax, and the onceler survived upon escaping the city despite the poor air quality. It is 'placebo' when they offer 1 gallons of fresh air for minutes (they are delivered 1-2 1 gallon bottles every day) when in fact you only needed 7-8 liters (1.2 gallons) PER MINUTE to survive.

[@dragonboyjgh]

​@@AJsVideos187 >"Right, but it’s not like he’s withholding, he’s providing." On the one hand, you're technically correct, but on the other, he admits during the beginning to intentionally polluting worse while bottling his air to make his filtered air more necessary for longer. He's providing a very necessary service, but he's also trying his hardest to make sure his service stays necessary, even at the expense of society as a whole. He didn't start the fire, but he's not an innocent party. Also, you don't get kicked out of a city for not being able to pay your taxes and bills. You go to jail, or end up starving and homeless. And then they either use you as free slave labor if jail, or make it very hard to stick around while homeless because "you're an eyesore" or "suspicious," harassing you with law enforcement and building Hostile Architecture to make life as hard as possible.

[@AJsVideos187]

@@dragonboyjgh I know that’s the case for real world cities, but in the movie we don’t see a jail or any homeless people.. I feel like if this was real life, he’d be a villain because of the way society works, but... this is still a fictional fairytale-like story where it doesn’t seem like it’s necessary. True about the pollution though, it’s been a while since I saw the movie (although the clip was in the video i just watched :P ) so yeah, he’s definitely making it way worse to leave, maybe if the events of the movie hadn’t happened they’d be forced to remain in the city forever as leaving would be fatal within minutes. Still, he’s probably a better person than some of the CEOs in the real world... so that kinda sucks

[@dragonboyjgh]

@@skybattler2624 Even very bad smog isn't generally deadly. It's just unpleasant, and bad for your lungs. Its weird the Onceler hasn't developed constant allergy symptoms, or a bad cough from lung cancer, CPD, or asthma after all those years (he might still have vascular issues, those are less visible. We'll know if he dies of heart attack or stroke), but he's also a good bit away from the factories, so his air probably isn't as bad as it could be. Somewhere beyond the deforested truffula grove, trees do still exist, and winds from there would bring in cleaner air and blow the bad away. Though this has made me wonder how exactly the Onceler is living out there away from the town by himself. It's not exactly like he can live off the land.

[@woos057]

Of course they missed the point They created the frickin Onceler fandom.

[@haileyiscommenting]

Anything that creates the monster that is the Oncelor fandom has something wrong with it

[@CocatGaming]

They were close to getting the point across, but they cut some songs that were better at getting the point across. Specifically this song: kzbin.info/www/bejne/maHcpqKigNSYd7s

[@JiannaSandoval]

Technically the fans created the fandom

[@saffi_taffi]

@@JiannaSandoval lol

[@barboraklepalova3886]

@@CocatGaming I don't think using the song would stop the shippers though...

[@larshaas2658]

The whole point matt missed is that those industries are not sustainable! A normal forest is way better than a plantation one, not even counting all the heavy machinery and factories that come along with it. O' hare's industry isn't either! He will degrade the air quality so much for profits his own product will start declining. Yes Matt is somewhat right about consumer complacency, but misses the point when the citizens refuse to plant the tree, they have been purposefully misled and supressed by O' hare's company (also why he has surveillance everywhere) and therefore they don't know any better and have become complacent, and why should they? In their eyes they have everything they need and life is perfect.

[@merran3456]

God, I swear if MatPat makes the onceler fandom come back I will actually cry.

[@theworstcontentever2383]

@@taralamlam1961, OMG UR SO QUIRKY WOWWWWWWW

[@Red-gy5tl]

_Dont push your luck Buddy_ 😦

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

It is too late. You just thought it into reality.

[@samaradel22]

Iam.quit lost

[@minaashido4643]

Me an onceler simp, who recently had it reemerged in me because the lorax was on Netflix again: 👁👄👁

[@taiga738]

Corporations are still to blame for the harm they do even if consumers should be held accountable for knowingly enabling them. Multiple people can hold blame for the same thing.

[@grandempressvicky6387]

In the case of the Lorax, O'hare actively hid the damage he did to the environment and brainwashed the town to the point where people doesn't even question how awful their living situation is. He says "the more smog in the sky, the more people will buy!" they don't know that he's making everything worse. The consumers are free of all blame when the town hero/monopoly company is brainwashing them.

[@taiga738]

@@grandempressvicky6387 I wanted to be brief so I focused on addressing the idea that in a case where you can actually prove consumers are being willfully ignorant/knowingly enabling a company's bad practices *cough*pokemon sword and shield*cough* that the companies would somehow cease being at fault and the consumers would be the only ones to blame for it, as it demonstrates that Matpat's reasoning is fundamentally flawed rather than misapplied. Even in IRL equivalents there's a difference between not knowing the harm a product or company causes and refusing to accept facts/pretending they don't after being made aware of it, so a consumer would warrant some blame if they know, brainwashing or not. The only exception would be if they're buying a product not because they want to enable a company but because it's a necessary purchase they lack alternatives for or those alternatives have the exact same problem.

[@twilight3272]

Onceler Matt deserves to be among the cursed ranks of the Onceler OC’s.

[@superfluousnscrupulous]

Oh God, we don't need anymore

[@gogogoing8122]

ﾀﾋ kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJqcZaqmhrpknNU

[@zonQe]

Just imagine the writers watching this and scratching their heads "Did we really make this?"

[@sapphireclawe]

Just throwing this out there: people learn resource management quickly in Minecraft through farming. Plant seeds, gather wheat (or anything else), replant and maybe even expand your field. That's why people liked that saplings would fall from the leaves of the trees you cut down. AKA Onceler would have been more successful if he played Minecraft.

[@Puki9117]

(Surprisinly)Makes sense

[@mznerdtheories]

Minecraft is one of the best examples of sustainability that exists; of economics in general actually, weird as that is to say.

[@lucascur9310]

Ye

[@hannahallender4152]

That... shouldn’t make that much sense

[@IcyDiamond]

But Minecraft probably didn’t exist when he was a kid, since he says to Ted, playing the Donkey Kongs, implying he was born around the 80’s or 70’s which means he couldn’t have played Minecraft

[@spencerwillson9403]

"The PR People are lying, and the lawyers are denying" I agree with you that customers are responsible to "vote with their wallets" and they certainly have a portion of the blame, but the movie portrays big corporations as the bad guys because they are misrepresenting the situation. People are not made aware of the environmental effects their production of products has around them. Therefore, it is bad. People are not making an informed decision when companies lie and deny facts. Therefore, it is not the customer "approving" of these methods, but rather, them being unaware of such things at the fault of the companies.

[@user-px7mx2ge4e]

THISSSSS, great take on it.

[@turpisfelis]

I was going to say that but I say your comment.

[@EverettCDavis]

100% agree. And then you add the fact that half of the US has been convinced that climate change is a hoax and anything we do to combat it is just a hoax to take profits away from businesses.... If we weren't constantly being lied to, it would be a lot easier to care.

[@blackflagsnroses6013]

Also great point!

[@nissutobor9078]

absolutely, this is exactly what I was about to say. Culture plays a major role in consumerism. As the phrase goes, "don't hate the player, hate the game"... if the game is leading to the destruction of the planet/making it unstable for human life... maybe buy a new board game? Tweak the rules a bit? "vote with your dollar" is litterally a meme. Consent can be manufactured. And it is.

[@Nobody-zn3yv]

I think a great counter to the whole, "consumer bad" model is to recognize the fact that the consumers were actively being lied to from propaganda and indoctrination; by the companies themselves. I do think consumers are the main contributor to unsustainable business practices, but how can you blame them when they're being lied to and forcibly stopped from seeing the truth, like when O'hare created a wall and didn't let anyone outside. Would love to see a discussion on this aspect.

[@_W3IRD_CH1LD_]

"MAN- It is *no* wonder Tumbler fell in love with this guy, he's a tall, thin, guitar playing nerd, who wears vests, loves marshmallows, and has mommy issues" - The biggest theorist himself.. Matt patt 2020

[@HuneeBruh]

“How wrong can we possibly be?” Me: *fnaf timeline flashbacks*

[@iamaepicpersonlol557]

No

[@banukie24]

@@iamaepicpersonlol557 yes

[@StephenDurnan]

Yes

[@realThomastheCat]

Oh my

[@iamaepicpersonlol557]

I SAID NO