Film Theory: Venom's SECRET Weapon! (Venom vs Carnage)

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Listen, we've been waiting to see Venom fight Carnage in Venom 2: LEt There Be Carnage since that post credit scene and it is FINALLY time! Of course, that means I need to try and predict who will WIN. Most of you likely assume you know that answer already. It's Venom. You know, the "hero" of our story. Yet, WHY will he win? What does Venom have over Carnage, besides plot armor? Theorist, it goes a whole lot deeper!
#Venom2 #Venom #Carnage #Spiderman #VenomTrailer #Venom2Trailer #Marvel #Trailer #Theory #FilmTheory #Matpat
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Credits:
Writer: Matthew Patrick and Zach Stewart
Editor: Alex "Sedge" Sedgwick and Tyler Mascola
Assistant Editor: Caitie Turner (viridianrosette)
Sound Editor: Yosi Berman

[@withinternetaccess]

Fun fact(or not so “fun”): The reason why venom was so scared of carnage was bc any offspring that the klyntar race/symbiotes have are always stronger physically

[@User_Here414]

Yup

[@JustGENERALL]

You’ve taught me so much in one comment.

[@bridgetcooney5085]

Good lore info!

[@Geozone117]

Fun fact venom has never actually been afraid of carnage.

[@pinapplear]

Name checks out

[@Tatolus]

"How did you beat Carnage?" "We gave him Lukimeia" "...oh"

[@kazmiirtiza3934]

Haha, lol. I'm guessing that's how Venom beat him when he summoned Knull. CONTEXT: Venom absorbed everyone's Codex and forged a Necrosword, cutting Carnage in half, and supposedly giving him Lukimea with it. XD

[@croyor]

"That'll do it."

[@togelugapasalan6524]

L o L

[@semperfidelis271]

or a hemotoxic venom

[@nightfury66]

i laughed way too much at this xD

[@possessedbyasymbiote]

A little detail I noticed: If you notice carefully, Venom actually gets on Eddie's body like an exoskeleton, sort of like Iron Man's nanotech suit. However, Carnage literally tears apart Cletus' body when he takes control over stuff. This shows that Venom actually has respect for its host while Carnage is just a mindless rogue symbiote, not even caring about its host.

[@GachaLifeGirl]

I love that detail. It’s subtle foreshadowing, I guess.

[@unfortunatebeings5975]

That’s a really cool detail :0

[@czar6203]

This aged well.

[@AscentScar]

Neat

[@paulstarkeyr5706]

Foooood

[@Ozarka0]

What's truly mindblowing is that this is exactly how Eddie and Venom won. They worked together while Cletus and Carnage did not.

[@elleluner]

Yeah, MatPat kinda predicted this one as well.

[@KetaminePizzaGhost]

They had Dan on their side

[@yukima920]

I’m really impressed, he was spot on

[@katvrlss]

@@yukima920 yess lol same me too

[@N.I.A23]

Which is weird considering their bond was far greater than eddie and venom prior to the movie. Infact, the symbiote might be the only thing that cletus has a genuine love for.

[@scrillthebeast2066]

About how venom eats, I am guessing he actually breaks down everything to the molecular level in a few seconds and then absorbs it.

[@DubShadow]

That and Venom’s saliva is his feces

[@soap1178]

@@DubShadow please do not elaborate, I don’t want to imagine what Eddie Brock poops out daily

[@azulesmalls5514]

@@soap1178 venom's saliva is the equivalent of feces for humans. He breaks down people's bodies and he gets rid of what he doesn't need by salivating.... So when he licks you... that saliva is made out of people....

[@MrThunk]

@@azulesmalls5514 didn't need to know that

[@Matt-pm2sx]

@@MrThunk I did

[@gargamancula5158]

MatPat: "Because it wasn't officially in the MCU, yet" Doctor Strange: "Be careful what you wish for Mat"

[@nevergonnarickrollyou9072]

Right!? Crazy post credits scene

[@YouarefriendMorgan]

Those are Major spoilers bro

[@scrablev3348]

I love ur profile pic of bad

[@Bee-uh2zm]

Lol

[@Ciaramae7]

Docter oc:hello mat

[@decimusvitae]

Venom has a lot of advantages that most symbiotes don't have. Everything you mentioned in this video, to name a few. You also have to remember Venom burned through a lot of bodies. Eddie was a great match both in personality and physical. Venom is also inquisitive. He seems to be the only symbiote that is capable of making friends, who will help him.

[@vegetto7942]

When did venom burn through a lot of bodies it's on earth when they absolutely need a host home planet they don't and the stories have always been that venom bonded with spiderman and they un bonded because peter realized how bad venom is for him then venom moved onto flash or Eddie they happen to share that hate for spiderman too

[@fantasyhq3553]

@@vegetto7942 in the comics the main ones are Deadpool spiderman Eddie flash and there's more

[@skullguy4863]

@@fantasyhq3553 i know this is late but he was also bonded with Scorpion

[@delanovanraalte3646]

@@vegetto7942in the movie venom let there be carnage

[@Thetravelingmonke]

Fun fact: venom actually has the strongest ability out of all the klyntar and it’s plot armor

[@ewanjohnson278]

Donke

[@GodsLeastFavorite-vs3xv]

Didn't help him out in MARVEL zombies

[@zukashi7012]

"Big strong biceps or Big strong thighs" Matpat: "Personality"

[@franksousa54]

The psychological factor does make sense, like Man vs Nature stories. Venom would have to MacGyver a win an keep up, while Carnage would just physically overwhelm him with sheer ferocity.

[@averibone5717]

I love how this movie is essentially about the power of friendship

[@jennifershay8980]

Friendship…right….

[@emmiebunny04]

It's actually the power of love. In the comics, Eddie and Venom are canonically in a relationship. They're married and they have a kid together (Eddie carried the pregnancy). Their relationship is actually quite beautiful. They call one another "my love" all the time and in one comic, Venom leaves Eddie and Eddie stops at nothing to get him back.

[@averibone5717]

@@emmiebunny04 I didn't know that thats awesome

[@lonelysoulz6773]

@@emmiebunny04 I’m having a hard time believing that

[@HUNTR11]

@@lonelysoulz6773 it's only in the comics made by a guy who I can't remember the name of

[@Za_Huncho]

In the comics, Carnage was so unique because Cassidy and Carnage both loved to murder and cause havoc. They had either the deepest or second deeoest symbiote bond in the comics. In the movie they were just a guy inside an alien. In the comics they were one. While I agree venom would win, just not the cheesy way they did in the movie.

[@checkersbischoff3106]

I like how Mat explored the psychological aspect. Because in the movie it does come down to the fact that Venom and Eddie have a mental bond, meanwhile Carnage and Cletus were constantly fighting with each other in that final battle

[@badman3000]

When Venom takes on another host it also takes on a different kind of personality depending on the host. When Carnage takes on another host he pretty much changes them into Cletus.

[@atomicash2475]

Yeah carnage and Cletus are two different people, but some how act exactly the same.

[@jitian7353]

@@atomicash2475 cletus and carnage are the same person technically( with cletus being carnages perfect host they are the same person with different names.

[@nobodyknowsforsure]

@@atomicash2475 that's why when merged they say I - because it's the perfect psychotic symbiosis

[@ilvanasgobero8096]

I think i heard somewhere that Cletus corrupted Carnage, as if Carnage acted similar to Venom at the start but Cletus' insanity drove him mad

[@jitian7353]

@@ilvanasgobero8096 nah the carnage symbiote was always insane. Symbiotes resonate with their hosts emotions (why the venom symbiote chose Brock right after Peter,both of them hated him on a personal level and why it's perfect host was Flash, both of them wanted to be a hero)

[@iamsam322]

Well guys, it turns out that Venom and Carnage were both weak to sound after all, but Venom had one power that Carnage didn’t have! The power of an ex wife and her new fiancé.🥰

[@thomasway0320]

Well, also the lack of marriage problems due to, well, no marriage.

[@arjavjain7229]

@@thomasway0320 lmfao

[@filipandrejevic4427]

Wives boyfriend

[@kirbgaming8192]

“Man already having marriage problems?”

[@josephlawson1796]

Why does any man get married in this day and age? I'm glad i never had enough interest to fall into the dating and marriage trap.

[@ianluk6385]

I guess we can call this a correct prediction. In the movie, Eddie and Venom won because they worked together while Cletus and Carnage didn't. Good job Mat 👍

[@tonytonychopper8488]

12:17 Yoooooo Eddie and venom kissed lol

[@TimeBucks]

this series is about the power of friendship

[@mnkpop5858]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJewfICioJh7orc

[@canthandlethislol]

He has family

[@e.d.5766]

The power of deeply abusive, controlling, unwanted and overall dysfunctional friendships.

[@wayne5553]

@@e.d.5766 the only type I tolerate

[@daydreamdirty]

Lol someone is s my little ponies fan!

[@Nightpacer]

An interesting aspect of the symbiote is that each time it spawns offspring, it's designed to create a stronger symbiote than the previous. So each new offspring SHOULD in theory be stronger than the "parent" symbiote.

[@darkspider4435]

True, I mean look at freaking Toxin and Sleeper. Those two are are OP. But a big flaw that came with both of them was either that they were inexperienced and not as capable of strategy as there parents. I mean, toxin beat the crap out of Carnage but almost died to him later cause he didn't think his dad would team up with venom. Sleeper was probably one of the most evolved symbiotes we've seen but he almost died to Tel-Kar wearing Venom cause he outsmarted him. Strength doesn't always factor in when its a fight between strategy.

[@vbgaming6203]

Don't forget though that cassidy hasn't had as much time to become symbiotic with carnage unlike Eddie who has had a long time to combine well enough with venom, but it depends on how the movie uses this

[@BobThePenguin.]

@@darkspider4435 and even after that team up from carnage and venom, once Spider-Man distracted them for a bit, toxin bulked up and beat the crap out of both of them

[@OtakuWrath]

Venom suffers because he's had multiple hosts as well. He's still attached to Peter Parker even if Eddie is a more compatible host. Carnage was born and corrupted by the psychotic mind and has never had a connection outside of that and if Venom passes down all his skills to his offspring then Carnage has all the flexibility and increased strength/awareness Spiderman has just like Venom has. Carnage is better in every way except he's basically a baby that knew nothing and then got forced into one of the worst possible humans. It's not even the Symbiotes fault. Venom using "We are Venom" is actually worse because it shows that they are still considering themselves 2 separate entities "sharing" with each other. Carnage is 100% in sync with the human, They both want absolute carnage and they are 1 entity together which is something Venom would fail to do because he will always be Peter Parkers Symbiote. There are 3 stages "I am Venom" refusing to acknowledge the host "We are Venom" Acknowledging the host but refusing to be one with them but still being friendly "I am Venom" fully acknowledged the host and merged with them to the point that you are no longer 2 separate entities sharing a body instead you are a single mind that no longer needs to ask the other permission to do something. Carnage is 1 mind and body.

[@ruba_duck3502]

@@OtakuWrath thats acually really sad

[@KalijahAnderson]

In the comics, they covered what a symbiote/klyntar is as far as the ability to eat nearly anything instantly. They are connected to the physical realm via a skin, that you see, but their mass is in the 4th dimension. He doesn't actually exist inside Eddie unless he needs to heal Eddie.

[@majorielewis6098]

I really enjoy watching your videos. The animation that you have really adds “spice” to your content and that’s what makes your channel unique. Keep up the amazing work!

[@theplaylab9336]

So afaik, the symbiotes can blend with their host more than the movie lets on. Carnage-type symbiotes are basically indistinguishable from their hosts, which is why Carnage can form holes in Cassidy's torso without killing him or paralyzing him.

[@andromedadreams]

So that's why he can do that? I always thought it was because he was effected by cassidy

[@gambanoid]

@@andromedadreams if you look closely, carnage is joined with Cassidy’s body when venom absorbs eddie’s body leaving Eddie Brock still inside, that’s why riot was able to see Eddie when he ripped venom’s face.

[@smoothwizard2868]

@@gambanoid well the movie didn’t do that for some reason

[@santiagoferrari1973]

No, Venom uses the plot force to win.

[@Wall207Slow]

Basically, carnage type symbiotic relationships fuse body, not mind. Venom type relationships don’t usually fully fuse body but allows for connection of the mind

[@brutelc8246]

Is it just me or has mattpat become extremely comfortable talking to his audience? Ive been watching for a very long time now on all 3 channels and his old video game theory voice is like flipping a coin different. Well done mattpat

[@naru4526]

it all boils down to time and experience.

[@cheesevelvet6358]

I mean, hes been doing this for years.

[@driveasandwich6734]

I feel like ever since he got a kid, he's come across as more confident and comfortable.

[@ericstrahler5767]

He can afford a voice actor to impersonate him.

[@hatsapp5054]

For those who wanted to believe: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnO7aXWhis12bas

[@SynapticBoomstick]

Neural connection: "Eddie! We are DRUNK!"

[@RubysWrath]

Pretty much. Carnage was just a reflection of Cassidy making him tactically no better or worse. It's ultimately 1 individual always working rather than 2 like venom.

[@datsamhack]

"Of course Venom wins, He is the protagonist!" -totally not me

[@DieAlteistwiederda]

It's what we call plot armor, the bad guy rarely ever wins in these comic movies.

[@raptordk9608]

I said that before I clicked to the video...

[@datsamhack]

agreed with all of you

[@scuproductions]

Infinity War

[@xbudgie1239]

@@scuproductions he deserved to win

[@matthewchristeson6589]

That's the one critical flaw made in Venom 2: Carnage is separate from Cassidy. Throughout his entire history, Cassidy and the Carnage symbiote bonded deeper than any other and it was shown by him referring to himself as "I" as opposed to "we." But in the movie, Cassidy and the symbiote are still separate the entire time and it becomes a plot point so Venom can win.

[@stevenrsaavedra]

Frl i noticed that too 😹

[@zombie_ttv_]

Yeah, honestly I didn’t like what they did with Cassidy and Carnage. But the movie was funny af

[@khourydouglas2955]

Carnage can actually be separated from Cassidy. Norman Osborn did it to become Red Goblin. Its just much more difficult to do than a regular symbiote

[@jinxed8294]

But the thing is that Cassidy and Carnage is the same being. They just don’t work as a team as Eddie and Venom do.

[@thomasway0320]

Yup, I feel like it’s at fault for being just “one movie”, which is short consider how much comics there are, if we take away the marriage problems of Cassidy in Venom 2 there probably wouldn’t be a easy ending at the final showdown.

[@PixkyO]

Simplier reason to why he and eddie wins, they are the main characters

[@kevinskywalker5539]

Actually, venom does have a regenerative healing factor.

[@Taylor20125]

“Why venom wins” BY THE HELP OF HIS AMAZING FRIENDS OF COURSE

[@patcrafting]

Venom wins because he has Family

[@Taylor20125]

@@patcrafting yep

[@nescient298]

@@patcrafting he doesn't have friends, but he does have family

[@lisszuniga2794]

Dom enterd the chat

[@sakuragihanamichi8527]

F a m i l y

[@shadefire8605]

I love that audiences love these movies, and critics don’t. It’s nice to just have a fun movie that you don’t have to think about to enjoy

[@CHRONE_GRIPS]

Anything is good enough for me if it isnt the 1 millionth mcu movie.

[@tiktokcutie8214]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGtf5ehpJWCbKM asd

[@uraverageskeleton6480]

@@CHRONE_GRIPS guess what venoms coming to the mcu lmao

[@franciscobonilla7353]

Truth be told the audience didn’t really like these either buts it’s still cool

[@CHRONE_GRIPS]

@@uraverageskeleton6480 i didnt watch the movie yet lol

[@randomnessltd]

Venom breaks Eddie's nose: "Oh no I'm sorry let me fix it. So I can break it again!"

[@thegargoylecumeth7932]

As far as the "skull digestion" goes, Eddie most likely has developed a Mutate-style change to his metabolism since/while bonded to the Symbiote, allowing him to digest and process what Venom needs to stay sane.

[@shivvers.]

Also, yes, the symbiotes do mimic the hosts mindset. That's why carnage is into destruction, while Venom can be easily controlled and used for good

[@pendantperuke9440]

If I had a symbiotic it would probably swing around much more- cuz I always look for fun-

[@shivvers.]

@@pendantperuke9440 that does sound fun. But you gotta keep it fed. Before it feeds on you. Ik a lot about them because as a kid, I liked venom more than spider man, so when venom got his own movie in 2018, I was so happy

[@pendantperuke9440]

@@shivvers. well if i know where a lot of chocolate is

[@shivvers.]

@@pendantperuke9440 haha that's good that's good. But remember they cant survive on chocolate alone. They will need brains or some kind of organ eventually. But chocolate will certainly keep them sustained for a while

[@pendantperuke9440]

@@shivvers. I mean we could have a few less murderers in the world-

[@jamesclapham9776]

I think that Venom has a better understanding of their limitations, and seeks to overcome them in various ways. Having more powers or less weaknesses doesn't matter as much against someone who is more experienced and competent.

[@colt1903]

Meanwhile Carnage is the lucky murderhobo in the campaign that can't stop hitting Nat 20s.

[@readmarx420]

Ehh, gonna disagree. Assume on onr side you have a medieval infantryman thats been in 20000 battles and killed many many many men. Hes very competent and experienced. On the other side you have a civilian with a modern gun and very little experience. I think the guy with the modern gun (more powers less weaknesses) would win against the veteran. Yes I know thats comparing technology but that doesnt change that modern guns are more powerful than medieval swords

[@ryleykearney1966]

This statment reminds me of logan paul vs floyd mayweather 🤣. But ngl I agree with you

[@tiktokcutie8214]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGtf5ehpJWCbKM asd

[@deexero]

Not necessarily. Deontay Wilder KOs alot of experienced competent boxers.

[@elirayzor]

My theory is that Venom has a special ability that he gained through his symbiotic relationship with Eddie. They have a sort of protection from anything and everything that tries to attack them, especially when together. Something called "plot armor"

[@zeynepozgusen2039]

That is so smart! I can't believe anyone came up with that! (For anyone who will take me serious and think I am dumb, I am being sarcastic)

[@gavins6419]

I still find it mind blowing how Mat predicted that the Venom movies would become canon in the MCU 2 months prior to the release of No Way Home.

[@kingwolf3044]

Matpat: where do the heads go? Me: possibly the pocket dimension. Fun fact, venom actually has his own pocket dimension in the comics. Most people have forgotten about it and it’s pretty much never used but it exists.

[@nerfcontent9429]

He just uses that for human heads?

[@kingwolf3044]

No. Peter used it as a pocket back when he had venom. It is a pocket dimension after all. I think he put his camera in it and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen him put film in there. But it’s pretty much never talked about these days.

[@ICTON123]

Sweet jesus

[@axolrowe7512]

Also carnage is eddies and venoms son Venom fucks Eddie and gets him pregnant

[@ICTON123]

@@axolrowe7512 To Carnage later does the same and bonds with a police officer, only for the offspring to later bond with Brock as well. _So I guess by that logic-_

[@sagarmeshram]

**gets excited over the scientific theories on venom vs carnage ** matpat: "teamwork!, it's teamwork venom wins."

[@jbh269]

The real carnage is the friendships we made along the way

[@snage-thesnakemage]

hes not saying venom wins hes saying what is venoms advantage

[@pauldacon828]

You spelled plot armor wrong.

[@ermacmacro7136]

It's interesting to note that Carnage when he bonds with Cletus is basically just a baby. So everytime he rebels against Cletus, it can be described as an immature tantrum

[@JixxarEntropy]

Tldr: Murderous strong toddler gets eaten alive by his dad and the *Power of Friendship!*

[@Doi-]

Full respect to your team. Best I can do to support you sadly is rewatching these videos every month or so.

[@adamxei9073]

This whole theory just circled around to what they explained at the end of the movie. Symbiosis is what makes a symbiote and it's host win battles.

[@vxnomous8818]

Win*

[@adamxei9073]

@@vxnomous8818 God damnit phone. Always fucking up because of my southern drawl.

[@vxnomous8818]

@@adamxei9073 bruh

[@Zerstorer1387]

But the movie sucked and made Cletus and Carnage opposed when in the comics they are essentially one identity

[@tyresejeffers7857]

@@Zerstorer1387 in the comics thanos does everything because he's a simp. I guess movies change things to fit their budget and time

[@riolu477]

One of venom's abilities is copying the abilities and powers of whoever his host is, quite literally, anyone he has bonded with he has gained their powers (given he bonded with spiderman he has increased super strength and can produce webs and, well, do anything a spider can do, including the spider sense) while venom wont willingly separate from eddie if separated from him, he'll manually fuse with someone to get back to eddie, thus gaining their powers or abilities among other things

[@Sumrandumbguy]

Yea

[@nasirka71]

I see that you are a huge Venom fan

[@riolu477]

Im not a venom fan, i just naturally know that, technically venom could get rid of some weaknesses by getting specific hosts, but thats besides the point, in a certain comic where that ability is shown to a major extent, it is also shown he can replace host body parts and neurons with himself to extend their lifespan, sadly he eventually loses eddie in that comic and literally uses time travel along with other powers to remake the universe which had been technically lost at that point, that iteration of venom is known as meat garden venom, omega threat level, hard to ignore, hes just what venom would have became had he had a few more hosts and eventually merged with everything only to sacrifice himself in he recreated what had become his home

[@paracame8162]

but the movie venom doesn't have Spidey powers because Eddie is its first host

[@riolu477]

@@paracame8162 didn't realize that when i watched it, well, i guess right now venom's abilities would be extreme gymnastics and the senses of a dog, which would be, great hearing, sense of smell stupidly high (as if sound wasn't harmful enough already), and the 6th sense to predict disease in others by smell along with predicting bad weather, specially storms

[@dylandickerson4941]

Visual editing on this one goes hard. The ripple effect is so good!

[@generalcodsworth4417]

It's interesting that this is exactly how it ended. Eddie literally points out that Carnage and Cletus aren't symbiotic and that allows them to get the edge they need after being beaten going with the more direct route

[@Joker_Kirby]

Venom has the best commentary, a skill that no other symbio has.

[@Psyga315]

Translation: "it's our job to analyze their weapons, armor, and skills to find out who would win a Death Battle."

[@Michael-ze1wl]

Matpat is more interesting, as much as I like death battle, all they do is try to tie abilities into one wobbly spectrum, it makes it a bit less concrete and the only way a character won is by doing something way op in a one off episode and it being canon enough for it to be included.

[@Iz_1107]

A man of culture🪑

[@matthewedwards6454]

Matpat doesn't go into a theory with the end results in mind and force the narrative to show what he wants to be the outcome, leaving out details that would ruin his narative. Deathbattle definitely does.

[@EvTyAn]

@Yukie Nakama no, shut

[@MugiwaranoTonyDStark]

?

[@The_Oddity]

bro really said "sure carnange is stronger, has more stamina and less weaknesses but venom has the power of teamwork , friendship and determination".

[@yorespxct8045]

it’s ironic at 13:21 mat used a microphone for venom even though sounds his weakness it’s not important i just found it kinda funny

[@mastermindoftrouble]

That's actually really genius. The "Two heads are better than one" thing. It makes sense. I work with you, you work with me. That's the more powerful factor than simply being insane.

[@BadBoy-ge9qg]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc

[@user-zc5nx9ln7p]

*kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYSTe2qAm8hnha8* .... ..

[@dynaco4_homebase594]

And spoilers that is no joke a part of how they explain how venom wins because the power of friendship

[@romarimitchell5528]

@@dynaco4_homebase594 Venom Is A Anime?

[@projekttaku1]

@@romarimitchell5528 yeah. Venom's all "EDDIE-SENPAI"

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

What's mind blowing is the fact that real world science actually applies to comic book characters like them.

[@TheHotBlade]

Agreed, Venom is quite an interesting creature if you ask me.

[@user-xb5yz4io2t]

Zj

[@hexismessy1283]

E

[@deusmachinima1189]

Here before you hop onto another video comment section.

[@shohamroshan]

Here before 100 likes

[@iistonton]

I like how the anime trope of "friendship always wins" is the reason Venom beats carnage lol

[@silvey640]

Venom's secret weapon: protagonism

[@eliteninja23]

In an arc called “minimum carnage”, Carnage is literally decapitated and just reattaches his head a minute later. Cool how this video now somehow explains that lil

[@darkmindedk9]

I mean venom did explain he was known as “a bit of a loser” on his planet to Eddie so in turn it probably means he a much weaker symbiote (hope I spelled it right) than all the other variants possibly.

[@ftwkh85]

in comics the offspring are also stronger than the original

[@ajpowell7204]

So him riot and the others from the first movie are indeed strong, but the offspring of one of these would be stronger than the main one

[@sebbasbaoz8314]

Well I mean just look at the battles he's had, spoiler alert btw . . . . . In his battle with Riot, Riot pulls out all sorts of weird weapons and such and overall he just performs way better physically, and in his battle with Carnage, Carnage has similar abilities to Riot, making weapons and such, but of course more powerful, like ftw said down here, while venom is just like a really musculur man with superhealing, and he doesn't have any weapons that he can make out of himself and such..

[@captaincozmo8529]

it's likely all lot of symbiotes have some sort of power, while venom is just... venom

[@MyLordAndSaviorPancakeMan]

It's not due to him being weaker, in original lore, it's cause he refuses to worship Knull, the Symbiote God basically. So if anything he was an outcast, they just had him say loser to be funny and be relatable to Eddie I bet.

[@polypython]

I find it pretty funny that this is pretty much genuinely how Venom wins in the movie, props to you Matpat

[@ashemarlow6471]

I haven't seen the movie yet because my theatre got (temporarily) shut down because of the current plague when the movie came out and it hasn't been put out on streaming services yet. It's been so long that spoilers have become unavoidable, so here I am, trying to absorb as much about the movie as I can.

[@kkcake5771]

Oh when do they put this movie on streaming services???

[@ashemarlow6471]

@@kkcake5771 honestly I don't know, Sony properties have been moved around so many times I don't even know what platform to look on anymore. I've heard that Morbius is going to be on Netflix, so I'd start there

[@samcochran8203]

The reason the klyntar race/symbiotes are so affected by fire and sound has to do with their cellular and protein/DNA structure. Part of the reason they can bond to hosts so well is that they're more of a giant soupy cytoplasm rather than a than group of cells, and what's keeping their gooiness all together is a group of proteins, and not cell walls. With their dna swimming about, copying the best bits from the hosts they find, because when they bond, their cytoplasm permeates the host and their dna and cells and cells walls. But this versatility in their ability to bond comes at a cost, their protein and dna/body structure(I guess you could say) is weaker than if it was bound up in structures or cell walls like we have. That's why it's so much easier for them to die to fire and sound, their dna and proteins denature that much easier in the presence of heat, and break apart/denature(also?) due to frequencies that don't normally hurt other beings. Humans can die from the right vibration as well, if you stand in front of a speaker blasting the right sound, your cells will start to burst apart, but due to our DNA/proteins and cell walls being structured as they are, we can stand way more frequencies up till that one sound

[@elpepe6407]

yeah... or that an ancient lord of darkness forged them with fire and noisy hammers so they're weak to the things that created them, lol

[@timechanger6679]

Informational! Noice! 😎

[@samcochran8203]

@@elpepe6407 I know that's the reason in the comics, I was going for scientific reasons that do work in our world and theirs

[@elpepe6407]

@@samcochran8203 it's still very interesting, and this confirms what matpat said about that the comics, one way or another, align with the science

[@CybersteelEx]

@@samcochran8203pretty sure humans dont have cell walls, only plants do

[@alliu6562]

Also, I just realized this, but like seriously, venom is a really interesting allegory for how irl actual relationships work. There’s a reason why Eddy and venom work as a relationship (not necessarily romantic, just a relationship, period, which benefits them both) while Eddy and Annie don’t. They don’t quite benefit from each other, and it always seems like Eddy’s the one dragging Annie into his problems. Meanwhile, Eddy and Venom eventually enter a state of relative equilibrium, where they both get what they need out of the relationship, but also can find enjoyment living in each others’ company. Whether you see their relationship as an allegory for romance, friends, or just roommates, the lessons they learn can apply to basically anyone who has to interact with another human being (or alien goo) for extended periods of time. This extends to Carnage too. Carnage is a classic example of a highly codependent, highly enabling relationship whether both parties enable each others’ destructive behaviors. They are both “happy”, but their happiness comes at such an extreme cost to both themselves and those around them that the relationship becomes very toxic. Eddy and Venom aren’t necessarily always happy together, but that’s just how relationships work. You can’t always be happy. There has to be some ups and downs. I don’t encourage assaulting your partner to solve your problems though. Talking is better. Or taking a short break now and then to come back with a clearer head is good. Also consulting friends and seeking the support of others. That’s good too. Anyways what I’m saying is that violence aside, their story is ultimately one of building a stronger, more positive relationship.

[@petros_thebot]

This makes so much sense. Oh my gosh.

[@BookWyrmOnAString]

It may not necessarily be romantic, but that is the correct interpretation.

[@krishc.8980]

this is literally the definition of a "symbiotic relationship", hence the name "symbiote" for venom and carnage

[@BiggestPhangirl]

I actually had several failed relationships (both romantic and friendship) because neither party benefitted from the other, or because only one party benefitted from the other. But I can personally vouch for the mutualism you’re talking about because my fiancé and I are like two halves of the same whole-I benefit from the support he gives me and he benefits from the care I give him. There truly is the “other half” in ALL relationships of ALL kinds that we need to look out for when deciding whether to commit to someone or not. Are they worth investing the time and energy in? Brock’s and Venom’s relationship is exactly this, they benefit from their seemingly opposing natures.

[@L3-txast]

1. How long did it take you to type that 2. I m not reading that it is way to long

[@jlong2578]

A comic-book science explanation for the mini-theory at the beginning about eating heads. I believe (I could be wrong) that certain klyntarian symbiotes are capable of producing strong corrosive acids and spraying them at opponents kind of like some real insects. Venom does not explicitly have this power, but it is feesable that some symbiotes have evolved or adapted to use their digestive system and chemicals as a defense mechanism

[@williamafton1639]

Thumbnail: “Why Venom wins.” Me: He has the power of being the protagonist

[@mastermindd1019]

The movie is actually using this. The reason Venom won was because Cletus and Carnage were arguing, and Venom and Eddie (hey he has my name) worked together

[@Myke1992]

Exactly. They weren’t Symbiotic as they say.

[@JudasMahorn]

10$ says if they were carnage would rip and tear like there’s no tomorrow

[@OneReallyGrumpyJill]

Love to see that the movie completely disregarded Carnage's lore to give people generic ending.

[@buff_0292]

@Christian Haynes the movie sucked anyways

[@carbon8497]

Ok now I know the movie carnage is weak af

[@patdav56]

Sooooo.... anyone gonna point out that Mat brought up the whole regeneration powers and venom not being able to, while in the first movie he was able to completely repair Eddie's body AND come back to full power after sacrificing/burning himself, both in the first movie? Other than that little tidbit, love this video! 😛

[@levidouglass2833]

I thought of that. But there was also a part in the movie where venom seemed frustrated that he couldn't fix Eddie's cancer. But he was completely aware it existed. He can probably help certain functions of Eddie's body fight against viruses and cancers more effectively.

[@FloweredAngelFilms]

Or how about there's a very prominent line in the trailers for "Venom 2" where Venom breaks Eddie's nose? "Here, let me heal that for you -- so I can break it again!"

[@tiktokcutie8214]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGtf5ehpJWCbKM asd

[@cayoticsgaming2328]

He said unlike Venom, Carnage irl should have regeneration. He is talking about in real life, if the symbiotes were actually real and bonded in their ways, why Carnage would have better regen than venom, at least that is how I took it

[@bigchungus5366]

Anti-venom: hello

[@beverleejames6406]

True. Carnage can make blades and axes and yeet them. But venom can extend his arm and make them into a shield. But he can also make his arms blades,too. But he can't yeet them

[@MasterCommandCEO]

Your font choices for in video things are awesome

[@andrewmonske8356]

I will say that venom has regenerative properties to an extent, he fixed Eddies broken leg like it was nothing, I imagine carnage can do it more effectively however

[@FreakingSpies]

Well in the Comics Carnage is the most developed and strongest Symbiote.

[@dallasdingman9905]

@@FreakingSpies I thought that was toxin, his offspring

[@mrreyes5004]

Yup. There have been multiple times when Carnage was literally _blown to bloody puddles..._ and then he shows up perfectly fine about an issue or two later. In fact, the fastest time _Deadpool_ regenerated his entire head from a blown-up stump was about 13 minutes - however, Carnage repeatedly regenerates a blown-up/decapitated head *_in SECONDS,_* meaning that his healing factor is actually canonically superior even to Deadpool, let alone Venom.

[@dank_brudda7933]

@@mrreyes5004 it is because he is fused to cells unless he is destroyed on an atomic level he will just come together in one piece

[@a.e.k8877]

@@dallasdingman9905 Each new generation is supposed to be more powerful than the last, so Toxin is suppossed to be the strongest rn; from what I remember at least

[@imperialethereal2640]

Carnage is actually Venom's child, and is actually stronger than Venom. Meaning that Carnage is stronger against sound or flame. Same goes for Carnage's child, Toxin.

[@archer9480]

On the flame and sound part, there was also a point in the comics where Carnage got some spell cast on him so he was actually made immune to sonic and fire attacks. At that point, he could only really be hurt by electricity. But of course, they probably don't have that happen in the movie, seeing as Carnage hadn't been around long enough...

[@professorchaos5058]

so vemon becomes a grandfather?

[@imperialethereal2640]

@@professorchaos5058 2 time father. Once to Carnage, and once to Riot, Scream, Lasher, Phager, and Agony (who later combined to make Hybrid, minus Scream).

[@Unknown-br1uf]

"I am your Father's, Brother's, Nephew's Formor Roomate 👁"

[@hunterg.1300]

Well, Carnage is actually traditionally weaker to fire than Venom is. It's pretty much his main weakness.

[@hollohuman1256]

I feel like with the relationship between the two pairs that venom and Eddie make each other stronger while carnage and cletus in the end want different things. Carnage I'm assuming he couldn't really function to his best abilities.

[@Moonlit_Snowflake]

that was actually true. i saw the movie, and carnage did not focus on his battle, choosing instead to shut up his host's love interest, which made the two fight (C & K).

[@revelare_xvii6269]

*What Venom lacks in strength, he makes up for it with agility and intelligence.*

[@NordicCarved]

Putting it that way just makes it sound like Venom and Carnage are D&D characters.

[@nightcloud2014]

That's quite ironic looking at their build, Venom is big and Brawny while carnage is slim.

[@hugovasquez8222]

"Intelligence" Say "I" once. Venom: "imma head out"

[@3tino4]

@Shin Shaman shut up

[@BungieStudios]

"We need sound!" >Smacks Frances into the church bell. Best fakeout ever in a modern movie. 😂😂😂

[@glitchtrapgaming7681]

Matpat: "It's not in the MCU....yet" If you know, you know

[@nachoplaygames2286]

Shhh no spoilers

[@nachoplaygames2286]

I know what you are talking about tho

[@johngideon4650]

😎

[@chesp1n]

i dont get it

[@johngideon4650]

@@chesp1n it's a spoiler man, so can't tell you what you don't get or it would ruin it for you.

[@motionslayer8164]

Thanos: "i am... *i* *n* *e* *v* *i* *t* *a* *b* *l* *e* " Ironman: "I am ironman."

[@gummythegummybear]

The fact of how right this was is surprising carnage lost because of the host carnage and cleetus weren’t with each other but venom and Eddie (for the most part) were working with each other

[@MrSirKirby]

So, in a straight fight, Carnage wins. But with prep time, Venom wins. Sounds like Batman to me.

[@ze3us577]

Batman is always preaped

[@spectralglory6920]

but thats just a theory, a film, theory

[@ProfAzimov]

​@@ze3us577 "Thats my secret, Superman. I am always prepared"

[@tanayishan3099]

"A CGI slugfest with some kind of skybeam in the background" Literally every superhero movie ending ever 😂

[@HurricaneDDragon]

Except for every single Batman movie and every single Spider-Man movie

[@Corzoko]

Also accurate for the movie, but surprisingly, no skybeam! Unless a light from a helicopter counts

[@isaiahfriesen9508]

this is a prediction theory venom and eddie actually beat carnage through psycology

[@Steph737]

MatPat: But hey, that's just a theory! Me: No, it's not.

[@Asumsauce1796]

“Club of horrifying villains that have mundane weaknesses” Michael Myers: Radiation Carnage: Radiation

[@pjdianalan7934]

I noticed that Cassidy and Michael are names in FNAF.

[@supersharky6058]

Honestly, I like the way that Venom won in the movie, they made it feel like it wasn’t just because of his plot armor, but rather because Venom and Eddie were bonded and working together while Carnage and Cletus were fighting with each other

[@user-xb5yz4io2t]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4LEoKV-Z8eJecU .,

[@unknownlight390]

I alright saw the movie, but spoiler much? I mean lets face it, venom and brock would probably win anyway. But someone who doesn't keep up with the movies might think otherwise.

[@MLCLAN_SG]

@@unknownlight390 lol anyone watching venom theory videos has seen the movie or probably aren’t going to see it, it’s a given there’s gonna be spoilers

[@johnsean122]

@@unknownlight390 venom can't and did not win the fight he win the plot its like batman cant win against superman but batman wins the plot

[@hioman]

Definitely didn't like carnage in the movie, since he's supposed to be much more bonded than venom, but I understand why they changed it

[@Jana-uj2ig]

1. The thing with the accelerated senses with Venom wouldn’t technically work against them because symbiotes can adapt to their environment is seconds. If it is too loud, they cause the brain to be less connected to the ears so that the noise wouldn’t destroy them. 2. There is actually a much easier way to have done this. There is a literal video game where you take super heroes and villains and fight them. I feel like that would’ve been easier to do

[@GenderfluidSketches]

12:48 so venom has ADHD

[@nubworthycigars6682]

Brock actually trained himself to peak human physical condition prior to the symbiot joining him in the comics originally. He was that big without Venom (maybe a misnomer with retcons but venom was the merger of Eddie and the symbiot.. like Spidey had it and wasn’t venom) in the beginning at least. Just thought it was worth noting. Great video thanks!

[@R0-83-RT]

If I am correct this was so Eddie Brock could fight his own Cancer. Which I find odd that Mat Pat mentions cancer being a potential weakness in this video, yet didn't bring up the fact Eddie Brock had cancer.

[@hunterg.1300]

Something of a related note: Are you also annoyed that Sony and producers deployed the misconception that the Symbiote itself is Venom? Not only is that inaccurate, but it completely diminishes the whole "We are Venom" aspect and makes it seem like the Symbiote is doing all the work.

[@hunterg.1300]

@@100percentNotaBot No, it's not. Spider-Man was never Venom and all those other guys only called themselves Venom because they looked like the original and were wearing the Venom Symbiote. When Venom was 1st introduced as a character, at no point was the symbiote itself referred to as Venom--Brock even made it clear that THEY are Spider-Man's "venom" come back to bite him. On top of that, the symbiote itself even stated it doesn't have a name--not a vocal one by human standards, but instead a unique pulse of emotions, as each symbiote has one to recognize each other across the hive.

[@kakahass8845]

I think you underestimated venom since his connection is neurological he acts like a third brain (our left and right brains are actually separate entities) so while carnage will have to actively speak to communicate with his host venom can basically trade information at the rate your brains are doing it right now which is so fast you never noticed "you" is actually 2 your whole life.

[@AntagonistVR]

This is really interesting, Thank you I didn’t know this and it definitely adds points to there strategy bracet in between venom and carnage

[@mattstyles2498]

Duel brain is a myth from the old timey era

[@pythro_]

@@AntagonistVR You should watch the CGP gray video on that, really interesting

[@pythro_]

@@mattstyles2498 I'm pretty sure multiple tests were conducted when patients were prescribed seperation surgeory

[@AntagonistVR]

@@pythro_ sounds good, I’ll do that now

[@Pwucky]

His secret weapon is: ✨Plot armor✨

[@peterbirt7248]

Congrats on another great video mat pat crew 👏 👍

[@idkwhattonamemyself6357]

The fact that the last quarter of venom and carnages fight was Mano e Mano with no symbiote just makes this even better.

[@user-xb5yz4io2t]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4LEoKV-Z8eJecU .,

[@BadBoy-ge9qg]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc

[@discolullaby5777]

Honestly I enjoyed the change to Carnage. Him having a love interest to have her be his foil is great. Venom tucking smacked her bells haha

[@buIIetbobbyy]

@@discolullaby5777 did u see the movie?

[@yobama6052]

@@discolullaby5777 carnage didnt love her cletus did like how carnage knocked her out him. Carnage not caring about cletus was his down fall

[@ericburton3963]

Lol I’ve seen the movie, and while I’d say venom ends up being the more goal oriented one, the rest of this theory is spot on, from the regeneration, to carnage’s ultimate downfall being him and cleetus not being on the same page. Good job matpat

[@dougjudy5817]

Carnage is still weak to sound in the movie

[@firdanharbima6997]

@@dougjudy5817 he's more endurance than at least some symbiote

[@torunsmok5890]

It's actually in a sense more that carnage and cletus are on the same page... That page just happens to be the wrong page. They're both so far off the deep end, so utterly insane and chaotic, than any sense of reason that could be useful in a fight against an opponent anywhere near their power goes out the window.

[@tiktokcutie8214]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGtf5ehpJWCbKM asd

[@firdanharbima6997]

@@tiktokcutie8214 noob late

[@samgreen6493]

Yeah, you’re right, Matt. In LTBC, when Venom escapes from Eddie and gets too hungry because he hasn’t had any chocolate or heads in a while, he crawls his new host to Chen’s shop, absorbing himself into Chen and tells her he needs chocolate

[@TheTenzen12]

Symbiotes weakness predates hosts. You could probably argue that Carnage is better protected as he literaly lives inside host, but Venoms weakness wuold not be amplified by bonding with nervous system. There is difference between actual sounds that disrupt cells and electric signals in nerves that carry information of sound.

[@muresminoskonchu2481]

Since venom controls the nerves, couldn't he just turn off some nerves or something to push through a weakness? That'd be neat

[@Devil-Damon]

He can do that in the comics lol

[@OppaiGod]

@@Devil-Damon shees venom broken af 🤣

[@ryanodonnell3684]

The editing has gotten so much better since back in the day, it honestly is amazing to see

[@user-lj6pt9xr8h]

*kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYSTe2qAm8hnha8* .... ..

[@BadBoy-ge9qg]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc

[@romarimitchell5528]

@The TacoCat Sigh , Go away

[@juliemccaffrey4646]

When Matt said that “two people yield better results,” it reminded me of “Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes” anyone?

[@stormostormo9465]

I definitely agree with the way that the two are it's mostly venom and Eddie's cooperation with each other as well as venoms experience intelligence and capability to function a higher speeds that gives him an advantage I still think that carnages advantages lead him to a higher success rate in this fight but with a bit of forwards thinking or alternatively if he had access to some of the same Powers as Carnage then I'm very much is a more threatening Force than Carnage. (Keep in mind I'm specifically talking about the movie variations I've not read enough of the comics to be able to say anything about them)

[@dandytv1510]

I'm so happy audiences are genuinely enjoying this movie and giving critics the finger.

[@ninjanibba4259]

Most people don't really like this movie

[@tranngockha6562]

I criticize a lot of things, movies and games alike. I still love them though. I like both their weaknesses and strengths, I just enjoy pointing those out

[@blizzardlol7625]

I’m glad this came out right after I watched the movie last night, perfect timing

[@user-xb5yz4io2t]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4LEoKV-Z8eJecU .

[@samae2478]

Me too

[@sandd6256]

same

[@dcash9497]

Im going to see it Right now

[@deacongarza5867]

Same

[@USSWisconsin]

Venom saying we are venom is pretty much showing that Eddie and venom are linked and act as one. Where as carnage saying I am carnage shows that they don't work together but rather against eachother. Which I'd shown in the movie.

[@darthrevan2455]

Hyped to see future symbiotes like Anti-Venom, Toxin and Venom’s other children (Lasher, Phage, Agony, and Scream)

[@user-mh8jq1ow5m]

*kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYSTe2qAm8hnha8* ... ..

[@kurukavatar5089]

Yeah, I'm psyched for toxin himself, tbh

[@ImpossiblyCheesy]

Hybrid gon’ be sick. Teased when riot got merged with venom on the first film

[@luisfernandocaelhernandez9599]

@@kurukavatar5089 toxin is from the 1000th generation right making him the strongest?

[@darthbinkstheannoying3019]

Someone who seems like Scream was in the venom 2 trailer which is cool.

[@revparravager3184]

The symbiote is the one "eating" anything they consume in their amalgamated form by literally dissolving it and consuming it that way. In much the same way he could, if he chose, consume one or even all of a component of Eddie, but since he is The Host that would be problematic.

[@ironboyjunior8509]

exactly, eddie isn't a cannibal, venom is the one eating the brains. kasady is a cannibal in the comics and let there be carnage, and when carnage eats humans, kasady consumes it too, hence the song that cletus sang when he escaped prison, "warden, you tasted just like ham", meaning that kasady ate the warden's brain

[@H0TDOG]

Matpat : goes all out with research to prove how venom doesnt lose Me: P l o t Armour

[@Sharkakaka]

Actually I've seen an biologist talk about Venom and Carnage would STILL be weak to sound. The sound waves aren't dangerous to symbiotes because of sensory overload, they would cause the symbiote cells to lose cohesion and so it weakens them. It's like sound melts them So venom loses his weakness to sensory overload for it isn't affected by other things other than sound that much. Also Carnage tentacles could prove to be a weakness as: -they require more brain power to move as they are individual limbs -Carnage doesn't have a connection to the brain so it's reaction time suffer a little if it uses the tentacles So Venom has a little disadvantage physically against Carnage but it's not completely overwhelming.

[@pickleproductions2010]

The idea that Venom could beat his stronger, faster and more durable counterpart using AIDS is just hilarious

[@sadsworth4605]

Ohhhh my god your giving the rule34 artists ideas

[@thejustinsteffan]

He said Venoms faster