Final Fantasy 16 Story & Character DEEP DIVE - And My Hopes for DLC

Well now I imagine many of you have finished the FF16 story, so we can FINALLY sit down and talk spoilers - something we couldn't really do before since this game is all about story. In today's video Mike takes a deep dive into his favorite characters, what he wants from DLC and what he thinks is the best romance ever portrayed in video games. Lets go.
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00:00 - Intro
00:55 - FF16 Review
02:00 - In Defense of Jill
15:34 - Anabella
19:50 - Dion
25:56 - Bearer Storyline
36:05 - Ultima
38:15 - Benedikta & DLC
43:11 - Honorable Mentions: Cid, Byron, Gav & Mid
46:36 - Medicine Girl
47:38 - Summary

[@Preachgaming]

Now it's been a bit since the game came out we can finally talk spoilers, and he has a lot to say about his favorite characters and the best love story in gaming. Where do you stand on Jill, are you a lover or a hater? This ended up taking longer to put up than I wanted, just by virtue of it being so long and needing so many different clips tracking down. Not to mention Adobe continuing to be a butt. Anyway please enjoy :)

[@virys.5887]

Absolutely a lover!!! Jill deserves so much better! From the story and the Fanbase

[@Anuon]

Jill was so great. I only wish we had more Shiva as well!

[@alexdickman5114]

jill lover 100%

[@phinix473]

i would want a jill dlc along that cid/benedikta dlc you were talking about, both from the acts of phoenix gate and the iron kingdom, but also see her travel the continent, ngl, i wanna know more about the continent, see where those bearers was sent etc.

[@BelurnStrider]

Jill was sidelined for the whole game. It's was really sad to see. What is the point of having mature character when she barelly interact with anybody except Clive. We need less scenes like those ones with Wade and Byron when she is completely ignored... they didn't even acknoweledged she is there. Would be amazing if we had more "lady Hana" scenes.

[@bahamut416]

For what it’s worth, the head in the box mystery was actually revealed after Hugo’s death. Barnabas and his Steed overlook the scene of the crystals destruction, and they comments about how it all took place just because of one woman’s head in a box. Implying that they were the ones who did it.

[@gateauxq4604]

Yeah the soldier that delivered the head was a Waloeder. The people she was loyal to ended up using her corpse as a tool to aggro Kupka.

[@WCworkhorse]

True story.

[@benhammer95]

yeah just realised this after a 2nd playthrough too. It's heavily implied, though easy to miss. First time I thought they were just talking about it as matter of fact, but in retrospect there isn't really any reason they would know about Benedictas head unless they were the ones to do it.

[@aerieleah533]

It also make more sense it was them. She was sleeping with Barnabas, too. He knew about Hugo. They were even in the same room together at the beginning of the game. Anabella would have been taking a stab in the dark.

[@thesunthrone]

I absolutely love everything you say about Jill. People often talk about support characters in stories, but in this case, she literally is the support for Clive. As a Dominant, Clive can do anything in terms of fighting - but as a person, he has a lot of struggles and difficulties, and that's where Jill always was, guiding him, softening his harsher word here, asking a follow up question there, gently helping him without ever making him feel lesser or trying to berate him. It is the kind of maturity I want out of not just video game romances, but fiction in general - a good, proper relationship of two people that care for each other so much that they don't just get hormonal at the first opportunity, but take their time according to who they are as people. It makes the eventual get-together that much more better. And there is no goofy, forced relationship drama either, no love triangles, no bouts of jealousy, none of that trite nonsense that writers for some reason think people want in their fiction.

[@Anuon]

So true. When she ran after Clive when he flew to fight Ultima, it was actually heartbreaking.

[@F34RDSoldier805]

I love how Clive didn't sugarcoat it to the kid. He gave it to her out right. I loved that.

[@MuraCasardis]

Clive and Jill's romance is so well written. People often joke that Clive is a himbo and doesn't see the signs and all, but those who truly believe that are just plain wrong. Clive knows very well, shares the feelings with Jill, but none of them felt ready to commit to it because of their baggage. Only when they were pushed to a certain peek that they fully opened their hearts to each other.

[@giselle1929]

agreed... people thought clive was oblivious and was dry af...which I absolutely disagree with...you could clearly see how much clive loved jill and jill loved clive but there were things to be done and that's why they both didn't consider getting together earlier...they both liked each other from the very start but thought being in a relationship wasn't the right thing when there's a war going on..ultima being around and joshua still alive... clive and jill are like my favorite ff couple next to yuna and tidus 🌙

[@tetrahedron_in_space]

I feel similarly about Joshua, but his death really got to me because of how very clear the brotherly love between him and Clive is. It is so apparent in the voice acting and story that it endeared me to Joshua more than I would have otherwise

[@18lolable]

"Clive is not dead, he's a rock" - Lisette

[@jet44444]

😂

[@zetton1374]

Ultima: Your body wont survive the cast Clive: Im going to cast the spell even if it kills me *Wakes up on beach with no magic, nobody around and while the curse spreads* Preach: Why do people think Clive is dead?

[@F34RDSoldier805]

In defense? People hate her? Why? She's great.

[@Mosan13]

I loved Jill, most of the criticism I see is leveled at the fact that she takes a very back row seat in the story past a certain point, and it feels she's not allowed to do anything or go anywhere.

[@SRFAA]

​​​@@Mosan13That's my exact issue with her. After her mothercrystal it was like she took a backseat in favour of Joshua to focus on the brothers' bond. Even Dion got to step up more than her despite the fact he wasn't as close with the brothers. She isn't a bad character. She's just not an amazing character.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

Jill's a great character. I just don't like what they do with her in the story. She's very much a support accessory to Clive without much agency of her own.

[@just_radical]

Jill is fine for the role she plays in the story. The issue that I have with her is that she and most of the female characters exist walled off from each other mostly only interacting with "their man/men" as supporting roles for the males plot. When Clive is talking to one of the other male characters like Cid about what to do next Jill isn't asked for her opinion, nor does she volunteer it, her position is just assumed to be Clive's position. As a standalone that's fine, not every character or every story needs to have a lots of agency beyond the main character, it's just kind of disappointing because FF has had female leads and female characters who were driving actors in furtherer the main plot. Jill, Jote, Tarja, Mid, Charon, were all just kind of there for large parts of the story. Even Benedikta to a degree was reduced to a dismembered corpse merely the impetus for Hugo's feud with Clive.

[@brendanlee369]

@@just_radical The issue is exacerbated in Jill's case because she's the main heroine, the only female party member, and Clive's most frequent travel companion, yet she gets sidelined and relegated to the background too much for my liking. She gets the most screentime in quantity after Clive but the game doesn't make great use of it. It's just disappointing.

[@SpectraLight]

Jill ended up being my favorite character in the whole game, she was Clive's rock and really shined on her own as well. Fuckin love her. Other games need to take notes on how to write a realistic and mature love story like theirs, it was easily one of my favorite parts of the game.

[@Zeet1]

I’d rather think Clive didn’t die. Got back to Jill. They had a son who they named Joshua. And the son wrote the stories from what his father told him.

[@Zedword42]

The stories were Joshua's notes that hapocrates put together in a tome. The star fading was symbolic of Clive's light going out. The star being the messenger.

[@lavari]

​@@Zedword42Metia disappeared because the magic was destroyed. The book is called final fantasy, so only Clive could call it, because he pronounced this name during the battle with ultima. Simply put, at the end of the game, additional tasks hint at his survival, I doubt it was added just like that. In ff, such little things always make sense. Anyway, even if Clive is alive, I'm not happy. I want a normal ending where we will be shown all the fates of the characters. Clive, Jill, they wanted to find a new home, Gav and the rest. A very empty ending

[@Zedword42]

@lavari Metia is referred to as the messenger. There's no indication that it is symbolic of their being magic in the world. It doesn't make sense for Clive to have lived given the reaction that Jill and others had to seeing the star go out. It is very clearly implied Clive is dead. Thinking otherwise is just Copium.

[@RatchildUK]

Jill was fantastic, Byron and Gav were absolute standouts.

[@TheOneGreat]

I was bored by all of them. Well, I guess Byron was funny at times.

[@continuallyblessed44]

Byron was the only interesting character for me.

[@Slimjim2147]

There wasn't a single character I disliked in this game. Except for Quintin at the start but he redeems himself in his side quests Also, pretty sure Benedictas head in the box is briefly covered in a single line of dialog, easily missed. Can't remember who said it, but pretty sure they said it was Barnabas (Ultima) trying to manipulate Hugo

[@GodOfAI_]

Jill is a fantastic character and the rapport between her and Clive it’s something you rarely see in video games nowadays Best couple in final fantasy

[@elpisdynamis1617]

Too bad the game itself was mid

[@jkranites]

@@elpisdynamis1617 enjoy that island

[@elpisdynamis1617]

@@jkranites uhm its more than an island, looks like your awareness is shot and believe me i dont enjoy being super disappointed at something I was hoping to love, but here we are.. unfortunately. Also this cliche romance everyone loves is flavor of the month, everyone will forget they even existed in like a year.

[@elpisdynamis1617]

@@jkranites also if you think this is top tier romance, you need to be playing other games, not @ ing me

[@omegaxtrigun]

@@elpisdynamis1617No it’s definitely an island. A pretty loud one. But still an island.

[@DaRealPielover1987]

Medicine Girl and Dion were my 2 favorite characters. I'd want spinoffs, DLC or a 16-2 playing one of them. Calmatives, Curatives, Restoratives!

[@KazaarTV]

cidolfus, esp with that voice actor, is imo one of the best characters we had in the entire series

[@chillimac76]

Cid’s voice (I dig Ineson) is basically what got me to play this at all

[@Massivecow1337]

It was such a trip playing Diablo 4 then jumping into FF16 and hearing that voice again. Glad to see he's getting work though, his voice is amazing.

[@thorn_lekoh]

I would add that Byron (and Wade) also play the role of reminding the main character that before he was Ifrit, Mythos or even Cid, he was Clive Rosfield, and reconnecting him to the person he was before he was made into a weapon. Once he has processed the trauma, even though he doesn't go back to royalty status and doesn't even think to rebuild and much less rule Rosaria, he has his identity back.

[@omegaxtrigun]

I adore Jill and her relationship with Clive. It feels so natural and healthy. They really feel like soul mates. Best couple I’ve seen in any rpg like this. I also love the aesthetic of Clive the fiery demon (Ifrit) and Jill the ice queen (Shiva) being a couple.

[@sudokillme]

Jill is the supportive side character that Clive needs.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

that is EXACTLY the problem. she's a support accessory to Clive- not her own person. If Clive were a better man, he'd stay away from her and let her forge her own path.

[@omegaxtrigun]

⁠@@Keira_BlackstoneShe is not an accessory. Idk how anyone came up with that. She decided she needed to go to drake’s breath, not clive. He chose to go with her. By your logic, any woman in a healthy relationship is “just an accessory”. She did forge her own path. She chose to be there for someone she cares about, who means the world to her.

[@Rithysak101]

​@@Keira_Blackstonewhat you said about what Clive should do sounds like it's in a cliche romance novel.

[@brendanlee369]

@@omegaxtrigun I'm not gonna call Jill an accessory, and I enjoy her romance with Clive to a degree, but the issue is that she just gets relegated to the background too much for my liking. She has a decent arc with the Iron Kingdom but gets almost no other interesting content outside of that and her relationship with Clive. She gets captured twice, sits out major battles after the Iron Kingdom, doesn't really have any meaningful interactions with anyone outside Clive, not even with Joshua. As a result, she just feels underutilized as her own character overall.

[@foob420]

Excellent video, was waiting for this

[@NoPurposeIndie]

I loved Jill as a character and believed she would become the main character at some point. At most I'd say i was disappointed when she took more of a backseat once Joshua came into play. But overall she's an excellent supporting character - in the literal sense. I'd say more about the other characters but im working on my own FF16 Retrospective video at the moment... ❤

[@markschmidt3081]

I feel like a lot players and viewers literally tuned out Jill and that's why they didn't like her in general. "Why doesn't she just transform?" Did they not pay attention to what she's been forced to do for the last decade and how it's traumatized her???

[@RatchildUK]

Joshua and Mid deserve respect!

[@SventFulgur]

Medicine Girl! My Fiancée and I was hoping Dion and Terence would adopt her the whole latter part of the game 🥰

[@kday42]

I’m in the copium mindset that Dion survived the final battle. Dragoons throughout final fantasy have often been tragic characters but despite what they go through they always endure. I feel like true redemption for Dion would be for him to live beyond the final battle. Dying to redeem yourself is the easy way out imo.

[@coldfiredx7687]

In the defense of earlier FF games. They were created for teens or younger, in a rather different time. Where characters uses more body language than facial expressions due to limited graphical fidelity. Characters & romances created then, they thrive & bloom & became favourites in many young mind. Now those minds have grown up & mature. Now they are ready for a more mature romance, like what we see in 16. These games grows with the players. And I love that about the FF series.

[@Plasmacat1]

There is nothing subtle about ass sniffing in 9 or Cloud telling Tifa that he will sleep better after banging her with an uniendo lmao.

[@webbc99]

I looove Jill. Her and Clive are a such a good couple. It’s so unusual for characters to have an active romance in these games. One of the reasons I love FF8 as well.

[@cyradus]

We did not deserve Jill. She was the epitome of female chivalry towards Clive.

[@gateauxq4604]

Otherwise known as chivalry.

[@sebhollywood4777]

Jill swording up on Annabella was hilarious lmao

[@burtwonk]

I agree with everything in this video, fantastic job preach

[@CetteSara]

I appreciate as well how Jill and Clive were written, and their growth. Thank you for voicing it well

[@Slimjim2147]

On topic of the little girl bearer quest. The kid is 100% not at fault, they are living the life their parents taught them. She didn't know better, and you can tell that based on her reaction when Clive tells her they're dead, she cries, she realized bearers are people just like her. Clive taught her a very valuable lesson her parents would have never

[@heylookitsnana]

I clicked this video when it was titled "Best Romance in an RPG ever" (paraphrase). Due to my schedule, I could not finish watching until the title was In DEFENSE of JILL, which actually a title was way less interested in. Had to doubletake to realize it was the same video. I loved Jill and thought she needed no defense. But, I suppose you've landed on the optimal title/title card. Thanks for the great video.

[@aezerie8239]

I was waiting for this! Great breakdown of the characters. It's a shame the gameplay was so weak but definitely a fantastic story overall.

[@ExorcistX999]

The thing with the kids and bearers are an old, OLD debate in psychology between nature vs nurture. IIRC the consensus is that kids tend to inherit personality and behavioral quirks from the parents naturally, but things such as morals and ideology are taught.

[@junglecack]

I know Mike has stated that this game would be lower on his teir list cause it really didn't feel like a final fantasy game. Regadless of that , personally my favorite Final fantasys are the ones with the best story and 16 has one of the best if not the best in the franchise . Thats why its in my top 2 or 3. Those being 16,6, and 10... Well and of course 14 as well.

[@OniScythe]

First, Great Video. It's probably my favorite ff16 story and character analysis on youtube so far. As for DLC, I was thinking of episode Cid but forgot Benedikta played a role in some of that so and Episode Cid and Benedikta. Another is Leviathan, the lost. My last one is probably not going to happen. It is a Royal Edition to the game, making improvements on aspects of the game people felt that it lacked, such as exploration and crafting, as well as adding status ailments and elemental weaknesses. I love this game to bits and is like in my top 5 FFs. I would love to see it improved further.

[@LadyCae]

I screamed when you said Medicine Girl! Totaly with you on that one!

[@TheWickedMessenger3]

Jill and Dion were so damn interesting and awesome, and they were both done so dirty by the story... Out there somewhere there is a version of this game that is an actual RPG with an actual party, and we get to have both of them impact the story more directly.

[@jfalava]

medicine girl is goated

[@Argo.nautica]

God yes, its creeps me the fuck out how infantilized the love interests are in most of these games.

[@drogoop6759]

10/10 take. I agree with all your criticisms and praises. Finally someone who played the same game I did.

[@Tom-gp2uo]

Jill is a wonderful character for plenty of reasons, I just love how I know immediately a big chunk of people that dislike Jill are just your typical hardcore FF7 stans and it makes it easier to brush off.

[@RustieVI]

so happy preach is here to spill my own thoughts on a youtube video i could never articulate properly

[@LadCarmichael]

I was certain and am still certain that Medecine Girl is Leviathan, and that we'll have a DLC about that. I know Leviathan and Alexander are both Eikons Yoshida wished he could have done so I expect a Cid DLC, but after that I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Leviathan/Alexander with time shenanigan leading to an alternate ending, probably to cap off the game, the same way the Ignis DLC did with XV.

[@Keyh]

God yes. It was fucking PERFECT. In the stables, Jill made that half step. That is how relationships work. You show a very small opening and see what the other person does. It is a dance. If you do step 1 and they don't do step 1, you back assuming they aren't interested. Also, sometimes people are stuck in their head. It was fantastic.

[@hkoizumi3134]

Jill was like the moon to Clive's world. She kept Clive stable and kept him going even at his lowest point. Alongside of the best female character written in entertainment like Ripley from Aliens and the recent FFXIV; Venat, aka Hydaelyn, Jill should be top along with them. For Annabella, she was an amazing antagonist. They used to very sparingly rather than adding more to hate her even more. It allowed us to fester inside of us until that eventual final meeting. It surprised me that not many people got the last second smile Annabella made before taking her own life. It signified she likes being in control. Even with her own death. Realizing her own life at her own hands, it was the last moment when she felt satisfied. You can somewhat say Annabelle was more satisfied about killing herself more than anyone.

[@FuyuYuki92]

I feel like Joshua kinda gets overlooked because he isn't as flashy as other characters in the game, but he's also damn well written. A little sad he doesn't get appreciated as much. Also sidenote: While the ending is ambiguous for a reason, there's plenty of evidence that Joshua isn't dead either, one of the core evidence being a very integral part of the main scenario leading to the ending.

[@HanCurunyr]

0:40 that was my reaction to clive FINALLY kissing Jill as well, like "cmon mate, you're both naked, alone on a beach, DO IT, DO IT NOW GODDAMIT"

[@MissingNo_]

Gav is the fucking super Chad mvp glue holding everything together.

[@putputlawch6770]

16:30 Though Anabella is not directly influenced by Ultima, she totally follows the purpose Ultima set out for humanity: To breed the superior body for Him. In that sense Anabella is not the puppet of the being Ultima, but a puppet of the pattern of evil (for example the pattern of "power destroying relationships") that Ultima personifies.

[@nerothos640]

Yes but it being her free will make that she's way better character than her just being another pawn

[@IanGerritsen]

I stopped part way through the video, you convinced me to get the game when it comes out on PC. I was already interested in the combat but your impression of the story was amazing.

[@Darkvega2k7]

I didn't know there was such hate on Jill. And I can't find it anything but sheer stupidity. Have we become some inundated with the Manic pixie dream girl trope, that when we have a character that's actually relatable. We scoff at them? Seriously, people need to go outside and go for a walk, or actually talk to people.

[@hub1986]

Agree with everything i did not mind Jill at all. Loved Benedikta and her evil a dlc there would be nice true. But Dion i would say was my favorite as Ultima literally made him go insane against his his morals etc. Great game cannot wait for PC version as i do not own a PS 5.

[@Sorakovu]

I loved all the character in this game but lets be honest, we all want a sugar daddy like Byron

[@mcihay246]

The funny thing about the child with her Chloe, is that it's not even the parent's fault either. As it's the system of treating bearers as tools itself that is at fault. All because said tools are too useful to not be treated as such.

[@ShoteR_Omega]

Defense of Jill? What's wrong with her? Who disliked her? Wtf? The only issue I had is her not accompanying him in the very end going to Origin with Joshua and Dion

[@F34RDSoldier805]

It makes too much sense why she didn't go. Not only was she heading towards being Blighted by using her powers too much, but she gave Shiva to Clive and their last mission was a suicide mission from the beginning (even though Clive is still alive). She just wouldn't have been able to do much if she did in her state unfortunately. It would have been cool, but it would have been stupid if they allowed her to go all things considered.

[@Zoeila]

A lot of people don't like that she is a tool for Clive's development and she effectively gets fridge something Maehiro the writer has done one too many times. Japanese Sexism.

[@F34RDSoldier805]

@@Zoeila How is she just a tool for Clives developement when she has her own arc where Clive returns the favor and helps her through her problems as well. Did you guys not play the game? Have you never had a relationship before? They literally helped each other throughout the whole story...

[@ShoteR_Omega]

@@F34RDSoldier805 Dion also had his powers "shared" to Clive, yet he went to Origin and even primed as well, this was no excuse for Jill not going, at least partially.

[@Plasmacat1]

@@Zoeila that's not what fridged means.

[@MrGoatFish10]

Imagine if they make DLC What if Medicine Girl save Clive on the beach, then she was reincarnated Leviathan.

[@AwsomeDude2471]

For DLC’s, I’d like to see more of Barnabus, Particularly his younger years, maybe his rise to kinghood? Bringing the beast tribes to heel? Recruiting cid/ben, Maybe he was responsible for the missing Leviathan? Or at least had knowledge on it, cause he’s been around a bit.

[@alternatelevi2099]

I loved Jill. Hated how the story seemed to forget she exists after the midway point. The number of scenes where she just stands around in the background gets to be ridiculous by the end.

[@zeroblade9800]

This is great take and I mostly agree. I'm a single guy but even I knew this relationship was the most natural I've seen in a game. It wasn't forced nor was it cringe. Classic anime troupe is the main male protaganist is infuriatingly indecisiveness never has a conclusion. Other times the protag is a creep. In both times the women are all over him. I lol'd hard when you mentioned about older games being responsible for these bad takes and might as well throw anime into the mix.

[@Angarato86]

agreed with everything said about Jill. a beautiful and sweet romance story, and the scene on the beach was absolutely amazing,

[@psenkdead]

actually one of the best ff16 content out there. Great video

[@korseryth5992]

Otto's sidequest was an unexpected punch in the guts.

[@Tholapsyx]

Jill's the Iron Kingdom's Cid, except she's even worse used than him. Cid at least was a respected commander fighting for his country of his own free will. By the start of the story, both of them were severely weakened. Cid lost to Benedikta, the weakest enemy Eikon, and Jill could barely hold back Liquid Flame. Both had started to turn to stone and would likely be ordered by Jarta to avoid magic. In short, to have Jill jump into the fray of battle or an Eikon fight like many would like would be inconsistent with the logic of the story. She's not written to be the false bravado type to throw herself into a battle she knows could kill her. In fact, the only time she did that was to save Clive against Barnabas. Sure I would love more questing with Jill, but people act like she's left behind for no reason. Let's not forget, being left behind also usually involved her watching over the backline when Clive & co went to the frontline.

[@Rithysak101]

I'm actually surprised Jill is so divisive among the fandom. I thought characterization to be one the game's strongest and unique among the women of final fantasy. She's pretty much a slave her whole life who forcibly shuts off her emotion when she commits all those horrible war crimes to the point of wanting to die.

[@rumasai]

To this point, when you defeat her while she's primed in the beginning of the game, she utters the word "finally." She was wanting death.

[@Valentien23]

Jill DLC would be nice to flesh thr understanding of her experience as a slave

[@ZattaniaFey]

They could go another route with the DLCs, chronicling the beginning where the bearers were still revered and respected. Maybe show us some of the first few Dominants (Leviathan the Lost maybe?). Kinda like the way Kingdom Hearts did it with the Keyblade War.

[@WCworkhorse]

Agree with you totally except for Mid. I didn't hate Mid. I did think they sorta just swept over her dad's death and how that affected her. I mean the first time we see her in the game she is all smiles. That doesn't really sit well when in our playing time, her dad died not too long ago. But, I absolutely love her accent. Best accent in the game. You being English I'm sure it's no big deal to you. And maybe, they even got it wrong. Me being an ignorant American, I thought it was great.

[@82automan]

The only time were I felt that Clive and Jill's romance got ridiculous was when Gav interrupted them. It was funny in a sitcom kind of way.

[@jonathanorellana6342]

Well medicine girl is obviously leviathan the lost one. That’s why she was everywhere when things were falling apart. No one knows what happened to leviathan but what if leviathan was just chillin hiding in the sidelines watching and hoping Clive succeeds in ending magic so he could finally die

[@Soulxify]

So many good points raised!

[@PapaDeusVult]

People have already said this, but I'll repeat it anyway: I feel like it was Barnabas' ploy (and Waloed's) to put Benedikta's head in the box to set Hugo against Cid. For one, Barnabas as a character-at least in the latter part of the game-is established to see his kingdom, his people, and his soldiers as a means to his master's end, in order to bring about that promised land and new world order. Benedikta certainly fit that bill, and was tragically loyal to a fault. It wouldn't even surprise me if her seducing Hugo and putting the delusions of grandeur in his head were also a ploy of Barnabas to have formidable Dominant (and Eikon) in their pocket for whatever purpose or design they had for him-with Benedikta pulling his strings, but it's Barnabas' plans she's putting into motion. Setting Hugo against Cid and the Hideaway seems like it would fit the bill of one of those plans. EDIT: Also, Medicine Girl gave me Arya Stark vibes-especially considering that Game of Thrones was something of an inspiration for the team

[@mysticalos]

You said bearers were kinda left out at end of game, but I don't feel they were. I think the whole side quest with lubor (however you spell it) was for example an end game quest that was deeply bearer oriented when you find out he was a bearer and immediately went from leader to garbage in eyes of his OWN people and you go through a series of quests and events that ultimately results in his friends (kids) literally taking a rock for him and it shocks the adults of village to point they're repulsed by their own actions. There are also interactions here and htere that reference too of man and bearer working side by side. The scene with his uncle fighting akkashic with the old general and the they mention how bearers and solders stand united and it only took basically the end of the world for that to happen. So I don't think the point about bearers being side stepped late game is entirely accurate if you did side quests and see that they used a subtlety but a strong one to show around the world that it wasn't man vs bearer anymore, it was man and bearer vs survival and they must unite or fall.

[@Demonmack0]

i fully agree. This felt like a MATURE adult relationship. vs the idealized teenage romance of the other FF games. I too was shocked at the Jill hate.

[@Demonmack0]

also, yes, the child is 'innocent'. they can't know better. and yep! i want more benedikta

[@Demonmack0]

Also, yes, Clive is alive.

[@92JinKazama]

Yeah, only took them 5 years to kiss.

[@Hexcimal83]

I know it's highly unlikely, but I would like to see a dlc story about the destruction of the leviathan mother crystal and the fall of humanity.

[@Mavelm]

I saw a theory floating around that the Medicine Girl was supposed to be the dominant for Leviathan which is why she has such a spotlight in the story.

[@Auxiegg]

Nice tie in... Just finished the game and I was thinking that the dlc will include leviathan, s/he was mentioned but never appeared so mayhaps

[@SaintEaon]

I think people thought Clive was dead because an article came out like 3 days after the game was out saying he was dead by people who skipped all the side quests to get to the ending and thus had no context.

[@madsandersen2743]

@preachgaming Clive did die in the end. It was hinted at it with both him saying that ultimas power was too potent for a vessel. Also Jill crying in the end because of the Metia star going out

[@Draylin41]

From what I understand, the devs had no plans of making a dlc but that may have changed post release. Yoshi P seemed surprised that so many people were asking about it so even if they do make something, it's gonna be a long time before it comes out. I personally would like a dlc that delves into Leviathan and shows us why he's referred to as "The Lost" in the few brief mentions of him. Playing as Leviathans Dominant is probably the only way we'll get to see his abilities and maybe they can tie his fate into what caused Cid to rebel in the first place. They could retroactively add a Leviathan chapter into the main game so Clive is able to absorb his powers, but I personally think it would work better as a standalone prelude. Maybe make those abilities selectable by Clive for New Game+

[@motorolasamurai1635]

I would love to see a DISSIDIA style DLC where we get to fight characters/bosses from other FF games

[@cambienvenu]

I think so many people miss the point that Jill has disassociated in order to mentally deal with what she was forced to do, and what she went through. Her primary story arc is dealing with it, and it’s done extremely well.

[@Tsuki6772]

Exactly, and as far as female leads in FF go, she's definitely up there too. The kind of things that critics of Jill's character accuse her of (being reduced to a "support for Clive", having no agency of her own, getting sidelined too much) are more fit for another female FF lead, You know, the one that got ruined by bad writing. I'm looking at you, Lunafreya.

[@cambienvenu]

@@Tsuki6772 Definitely, the fact that Jill and Clive both were able to have story arcs that felt well-realized and complete makes me unbelievably happy. This feels like the first FF that there’s really not something iffy regarding the characters and story. It’s all really well done.

[@brendanlee369]

​@@cambienvenu People rationalize the game's disappointing treatment of Jill using her backstory, which technically does "make some sense", but imo the story takes it too far. Jill doesn't talk enough or have meaningful interactions with any characters outside Clive, not even Joshua? It feels like she's just there in the background a lot of the time? You say it's because she disassociated as a result of her Iron Kingdom trauma. Jill's Shiva appearances are underwhelming? It's cuz her Iron Kingdom trauma made her weaker from the curse. Jill gets sidelined after her Iron Kingdom arc, sits out Dhalmekia, sits out the Bahamut fight, sits out Ash/Waloed, sits out the final battle? It's cuz her Iron Kingdom trauma made her weaker from the curse. Overall, Jill gets almost no significant content after her Iron Kingdom arc outside her relationship with Clive? It's cuz of the aforementioned sidelining which, again, is excused because of the curse's spread. On top of that, Jill even gets captured twice? For me, it's too much. Ultimately, regardless of narrative rationalizations, the end result is still the same: Jill feels underutilized and lacks active presence too much for my liking. It's a writing decision that I don't really appreciate when Jill is the main heroine and only female party member.

[@pridefall3304]

@@brendanlee369 it's been interesting to me to see the difference in how men and women react to Jill.. overall I've seen much more positive reaction to her from men, calling her mature and strong. Women have said she's sidelined in all the ways you mentioned. Very interesting.

[@brendanlee369]

​@@pridefall3304 I can't really speak on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's true as a trend. Funny thing is that I'm a man lol. It's frustrating because Jill had a lot of potential on paper, but much of it ended up being squandered... she really deserved better.

[@Xilibrius]

I just finished the game last night, was up till 5am

[@RekkaAlexiel]

Yo! Where’s the bit on Joshua?? The bird has now been set freeee!! 😂

[@TheReeser1]

To me the game is just way more than the sum of its parts. I had so many little problems with it while I was playing it but when I think back on the game Its nothing but good feelings. Keep going CBU3.

[@DameonStarflame]

People point out that the game looks like it has a bad ending if you don't do the sidequests, but the same ending looks like a good ending if you have. It's a very interesting method of ending a story and I wonder how things will go with CBU3 and single player games in the future.

[@josephr7740]

Its pretty obvious Clive survived (imo), but tbh, it bothers me how they ended it knowing that. I doubt this will happen, but I would love an epilogue DLC with Clive coming back from the final fight. Think The witcher 3 Blood and Wine.

[@LordB-dg8ks]

It’s Middle Ages technology Despite what Game of Thrones tells everyone, in a world without condoms, there is a LOT less premarital sex. I do think the five year time skip is a little much because they literally do nothing as far as the plot goes for five years before rushing through and smashing every other Crystal inside of two weeks, but that plot hole is for everything, not just the relationship

[@bryanstillman2125]

I thought it was Barnabas that put Bennedikta’s head in the box. And Clive is dead. He turned to stone on the beach. Joshua died too, and it was either Gav or Tomes or Vivian that wrote the book at the end. That’s my story, and I’m stickin to it.

[@StoicPJ]

Jill is by far my favorite character. I just got to the point where the pub cheered. And I was there. It was so touching and not cheap at all.

[@greyknight627]

The more I think on it, the more I couldn’t disagree more with the notion of Clive’s simplicity as a character, that he’s a “blunt object.” Is Clive the sharpest tool in the shed? No, but that also doesn’t make him stupid, nor does it make him deep and complex. Consider that Clive goes through important growth, perpetuated from his own internal struggles and realizations. Clive makes specific and distinct choices to grow and adapt given his circumstances. It’s Clive that emotionally recognizes and overcomes his initial grief of being the Second Dominant of Fire. He admits his own choices to run from the truth and blame others, and without anyone prompting him to confront this, he does so on his own. He admits he was wrong and how to press forward, admitting to the truths he is cognizant of. Look too how immediately after, he offers a worthwhile and insightful solution to Cid’s determination to make a place where “people can die on their own terms” but rather a place where they “can live on their own terms.” It’s not only a better solution, but it’s also reflective of Clive’s own revelations. Instead of only seeking death, vengeance, or violence, he chooses life. Yes, he continues to fight, he’s not the most tactical, but he is also acutely aware of how the world works. He knows you can’t just become a pacifist over night and expect the world you want to build will come about without issues. Nobody ever really needs to point Clive in the right direction, he makes his own choices and they are based on what he has realized about himself after experiencing unnatural trauma and death in his life. Most people would have embraced a life of death and destruction without recognizing the truth, or even if they did, they’d press on anyway out of anger and pain. Clive is much more dynamic and strong on an emotional intelligence level than what this “blunt tool” argument. He may not be a genius or extremely articulate, but he displays growth and adaptability to extreme events far better than most.

[@F34RDSoldier805]

If we do ever get a Cid DLC, I would assume we would learn more about Gav as well.

[@tinticit]

The DLC I want to see is "The Bastards", clives time as an Imperial soldier and then assassin slave. Why did they care for each other and give each other codenames? Show their bond and how Clive's desire for revenge kept him going. If you wanted, you could make it an entire in-the-past DLC with Cid/Benedicta, Dion & Dad, etc.

[@edindjc8735]

This is what I was thinking. There’s no places to go post credits given how the game ended. However, there is a lot of time in between time skips and this could allow for more fleshed out aspects of Clive’s story

[@DGart609]

Cant believe you missed Torgal

[@tinybee7780]

33:42 This was probably one of my favorite quest in the game, just by its implications to the overarching story of the bearers and dominants. Heck just from this note CBU3 can make a prequel DLC for FFXVI where the bearers were in power and can explain why a certain Eikon is missing in the game. I'm definitely interested in a Cid, Benedikta and Barnabas prequel DLC. Cid and Benna allegedly had so much history with Barnabas it's weird that not only both characters died so soon but Cid didn't even leave any notes that could have helped Cid against Barnabas, or even Ultima.

[@fnordcola3226]

My objection to the commentary on relationships in video games is that it equates a few different things: relationships that are healthy and mature, relationships that make for good stories, and relationships that are realistic. I agree that most romantic relationships in video games aren't the first of those, but that doesn't actually say much with respect to the second and third points. They can be all three of those things (and I agree that Clive and Jill are), but they don't have to be. Yen's personality is pretty unappealing and her romance with Geralt has a lot of issues, but I do find their interactions pretty compelling. Similarly Tidus and Yuna are very obviously two teenagers, and like a lot of romances between teenagers theirs is clearly not the most mature and grounded, but that doesn't make it unrealistic.

[@shinra406]

Just to correct this its FF6 Edgar that's the perv , FF4 Edward is the sad spoony bard

[@taco_sensei]

Wait what???? People hate Jill??? Wtf??????

[@chocobojam8776]

I dont get why he didnt like mid. Is it because of her accent? I personaly love mid as a character. And her personality is kind of unique.

[@TheChunkeyNinja]

Yeah it's because of the accent 😂 a bit close to home i think

[@NotBer]

about the Chloe thing. I think it's another example of nature vs. nurture. the kid was raised in an environment where bearers and not seen as people, she's not inherently evil, and has no idea that what she's doing is bad.

[@keithmccall2902]

I completely agree that the Jill-Clive relationship is one of the best in any video game ever. Jill was easily my favorite character especially when she killed the "father." It showed that she was still dealing with her own struggles and strong enough to do it alone. One of the criticisms that I have about FF16 is that since you only control one character in battle, it is easy to forget/ignore the strength of your companions.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

I'm so baffled by this opinion. the entire game I kept hoping there'd be a branching option where you could romance either Jill or Tarja, and I 100% would have gone for Tarja. Jill had little sister vibes for me the entire game, so her winding up with Clive honestly felt kind of gross to me.

[@Rithysak101]

​@@Keira_BlackstoneIn no way has the game showed a sister dynamic between the two. It's just your pre assumption going to into the game.

[@lotus2001]

@@Keira_Blackstonethat’s your own weird preconceptions that you need to fix yourself. The game never makes you feel that way