Finally Reviewing "Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse" - Intentionally Blank Ep. 136

[@airbendnerd]

Those thieves were very daring. There’s almost no margarine of error in such an operation…

[@nathanharmon8971]

Yes. If you slip up, rumors will spread

[@benpuffer7891]

I cant believe it's not a felony.

[@daisuke133]

They indeed didn't lactose competence in that regard.

[@DarkSol16]

They really churned out a slick operation

[@SunRayz3r]

I can’t believe that joke was not butter.

[@timjackson4387]

Gotta disagree about evil miles not being threatening. While you might be correct that he isn’t the most literally threatening I think he is the most thematically and existentially threatening. Miles is trying to figure out his identity. He just found out that he wasn’t supposed to be Spider-Man. This evil miles is on my the prowler because the spider that was supposed to bite him, bit our miles instead. I think that an evil version of who you are or how you could become is a super crazy thing to confront when you are a teenager trying to figure out who you are. The evil miles is a direct confrontation of that theme. He also is an extension of the exploration of how the events in our lives shape us (the “cannon events” in the movie).

[@TarmakWorm]

The difference is, we don’t know that this Miles is evil. I think he’s still a hero just not Spider-Man

[@yutt]

You're correct and I can't believe Dan and Brandon of all people didn't mention this. Prowler Miles threat isn't to the universe - it is to Miles identity.

[@rmsgrey]

@@TarmakWorm He might, just possibly, be an antihero, but he's not a hero.

[@rachaelcolman3159]

Exactly! I think the Prowler Miles presents the idea of, "are we good because we are inherently good, or are we just a product of our environment"? So if Miles were raised in a lawless environment without the influence of his father, this is what he could be. That's a frightening thought for anyone who thinks of themselves as a "good" person, let alone a hero

[@TheGirlonfire25]

I read the art book and it sounded like Prowler Miles and his Uncle are doing a vigilante thing, which I assume is the distinction from the less-dark universes where our Miles can do the hero thing

[@Pablo360able]

There's a difference between communicating poorly and lying. Gwen wasn't miscommunicating with Miles, she was omitting the facts on purpose.

[@oberon9015]

Even if she wasn't actively hiding information from Miles, I don't think telling Spider-Man "don't save that guy, it will ruin everything!" would actually stop Spider-Man from swinging down and saving the guy in that moment.

[@akojammilas]

1:03 1:0 1:14 1:16 5 1:09 1:13

[@Daijobustory]

If she were to say something more at that moment, it would be a revelation that she was keeping something from him. Her hesitant then makes sense

[@jjj7790]

@@oberon9015 There also wasn't a lot of time to explain what was going on in that moment. Gwen told him "Don't go save him" and Miles' first thought (which would be anyone's first thought) was "She doesn't want me to go save him because she thinks I will get hurt" so that's why his response is (summarized) "I got this, we're good." How do you redirect from that to "No, actually saving that guy will collapse the universe"? There's a lot of contrived conflicts around communication in movies, but in this case there aren't a lot of solutions that don't also mess with the flow. Like, I wanted to see the conclusion of the Mumbattan situation, not get a whole lecture on canon events in the middle of it.

[@otrain23]

Awesome discussion! Spidey nerd here, but what I took away from the end with Gwen and her Dad at their last scene is Gwen realizes her fate (mainly her Dad's fate) is not sealed, he quit the police force, which means that he won't die like every other spider man police captain, he's no longer on the force like he's supposed to be. The canon event is Gwen Stacy's father die's (that comic art). So Gwen realizes Spidey 2099 is wrong, fate can change, it's not written, Miles is right.

[@chromaticcaos]

This is what Dan missed, his biggest complaints were that it wasn't a complete story. But it was, Gwen got a complete arc.

[@sarahkridenoff3293]

"I wish they would do more of this. I like long-form storytelling." I'm shocked that Brandon is a fan of "long-form storytelling." 😅

[@alexanderzinovyev2510]

Yes, such a "revelation"))) it was fun

[@ethanritterbusch8910]

0:00 Food Heist 8:44 Spiderman: Across the Spider-verse discussion 16:22 Spider-Verse (SPOILERS)

[@sabrinagibby4167]

+

[@jackparker1459]

I'm surprised how little credit they gave the character of Gwen. Brandon even gave Spider-Punk the credit for getting the band together. Just like Miles had a complete character arc, so did Gwen. She was avoidant and scared, worsened when her dad rejected her. She found what she thought was acceptance with the Spider Society, but it was all a mirage. Conditional on her buying their story. After losing Miles' trust--the one guy who had accepted her completely--she finally faced that weakness in herself. It led to her confronting her dad, having him quit the force, and effectively prove Miles correct that canon events can be broken. Then she gathered her own band to go save him, the start of her redemption arc.

[@jorgevaldez1859]

When Brandon said "i thought it was better" at at 9:33 i screamed YES!! THATS MY GOAT

[@keepperspective]

Same!

[@MrSilvUr]

It felt pretty clear to me that they were leaning on Gwen's PoV to provide the resolution in the movie. We start with Gwen's situation; the big emotional pay-off is her and her dad. Miles's family dynamic provided some nice jixtaposition with Gwen's. I wasn't expecting it to be part 1 or anything, but I was kind of delighted that they were like, "We're gonna make a WHOLE comic book volume, and we don't care how many movies it takes!" I don't know. Maybe I'm a sucker when it comes to pacing, but I really liked how this turned out.

[@GreatWhiteElf]

I feel like the movies are about both Miles & Gwen, in the first movie Miles begins with narration, and the second with Gwen. I'd bet money the third starts with both of them narrating together.

[@Owlfury]

Glad you guys waited to talk about Across the Spiderverse until I saw it. That was really nice of you (Just saw it last night, just in time)

[@Marco_Onyxheart]

I'm Dutch, and I think it's a stretch to say there were Dutch vikings just because there were Frisian vikings. Our ancestry is more west Frisian/Germanic, and I don't know about any west Frisian vikings (although I didn't know there were any Frisian vikings at all until today). The Frisians stretched all the way to Denmark. If it was only the east Frisians who became vikings, then they're not really part of our ancestry. I do know that there were vikings who settled in western Frisia in what's now the Netherlands, but from the info I found online, it's not clear to me if any natives from the area ever joined them. But then again, my knowledge of viking history is very superficial, but I haven't been able to find anything confirming that there were Dutch vikings.

[@kaikalter]

The vikings were just the lastest rendition and best recorded phenomenon regarding a very common "germanic"(which isn't just germany) element. It is noted by several sources that the west germanic peoples already partook in similar raids, over land or by sea. So under that same concept the dutch were vikings but certainly not in the same light as the Scandinavians, and therefore the name is not adequate, but it is not far off either.

[@anarionelendili8961]

@@kaikalter Yep. Saxons were raiding across the North Sea into Roman Britannia, hence the Count of the Saxon Shore and all that, and finally the Anglo-Saxon invasions. Frisians probably were part of that, too, as they show up in the Anglo-Saxon poetry of Hengest and Horsa (see Finnsburg). During the Carolingian times, Frisia (then part of the Frankish kingdom(s)). was more of a target for the vikings, with one of them, Godfrid, making a deal with the Frankish king to become the Duke of Frisia. I don't doubt that there were also some Frisians who decided to join the Vikings, but as a group, Frisians were raiding more in the Migration Era than during the Viking Era.

[@trojanfan4321]

Brandon knows exactly why this one was so incredible. Love to hear him share.

[@guillaumecouture9167]

Honestly, I loved Dan’s views here. I don’t necessarily agree with everything he said, but I could definitely understand where he was coming from because I had similar criticisms after seeing the movie, they just didn’t bother me as much. Still, having conflicting opinions creates much more interesting conversations. Thank you Dan!

[@sanctus_furor]

My favorite part of the movie was Spiderpunk. Just watching him slowly reveal his true self and affiliations while playing his beliefs off as a joke at the same time. He was introduced as competition for Miles and ended up being one of his best allies. Never seen a twist good guy before and it's neat.

[@aimeepotts2137]

Yes! Thank you for your comment, I needed this explanation. SpiderPunk is now even COOLER!

[@DriveByUppercut]

Gwen and Spot have clear character arcs. Miles' is at a mid point since it's a part 1. It's more Gwen focused due to her scene bookends. Gwen: Starts at "I always wanted to be in a band. Guess I just never found the right one." and ends with "I never found the right band to join. So I started my own." Big internal and external change, especially her relationship with Captain Stacy. Spot: Goes from villain of the week to multiversal threat.

[@stefanbrechtc533]

Can we take time to thank Dan for being the contrarian. I realized things about the movie only because Brandon was forced to explain why Dan was wrong.😂 I always have a smile on my face, listening to them go at it like only friends can.

[@ericg3814]

Based on my extensive anime research watching Vinland Saga, there are Dutch Vikings.

[@rapflapfl]

Same

[@daisuke133]

These heist stories keep on getting butter and butter.

[@bobbyshipman6824]

I told my wife as we were leaving the theater that I liked it better than the first one, with the caveat that it should have ended ~15 minutes prior. I definitely agree with Brandon that they added a bit too much to the end. With that said though, I think it's one of the best movies of the year, hands down.

[@samanthaa.6055]

*SPOILER* I care very much about Kid Prowler. It highlights the importance of a positive male influence- particularly the black father. Mile's father is his "canon event." His loss causes his life to spiral in a very dark direction.

[@crediblesalamander8056]

Favorite movie of the year. Favorite movie of the decade. Favorite movie of all time baybee. I'm a visuals-first film-watcher and this arguably has the most stunning visuals ever put to the silver screen.

[@myrojyn]

"I like long form story telling" - Brando Sando. Shocking. Truly truly shocking.

[@MrLimpWrist]

A great discussion for a great movie. The art / animation got an upgrade for sure, but I preferred Into the Spiderverse's story a lot more. More rambling below: Art style is amazing, and makes the movie (at least parts of the movie) worth re-watching. Packed with colors, details and variety. Didn't care for the teenage drama near the beginning with Miles, because to me it wasn't really that serious and their relationship wasn't really strained. His parents are pretty chill! The Mumbattan canon event was to create a moment of friction between Gwen and Miles later on, but not sure if that was even necessary. The ending was shocking the first time because like Dan I wasn't aware that it was only Part 1...(although near the end I realized there's no way they can wrap up the story based on timestamp), on the re-watch I just felt more or less annoyed at it and your video made me realize why I felt that way.

[@Michael20089]

I really really enjoy this podcast, it brings me comfort. Ive listened to alot of the episodes a few times.

[@TheDanishspartan]

I blame the Norwegians for the butter heist. A couple of years ago, Norway experienced what is now known as the butter crisis of 2011. And to prevent a repeat crisis, Norwegian thieves stole 24 tons of butter.

[@jaredbennett7677]

I actually really liked that last bit with the cliffhanger, and I think it did a great job setting up the next conflict, and tying in with the theme that his story 'messed things up', because the spider biting him meant that that world doesnt have a spider-man, so he became prowler.

[@jaredbennett7677]

They didnt call LotR a 'part 1'...

[@Graelcase]

@@jaredbennett7677 No but the marketing material (or at least the trailers) established that more movies were coming in the following years.

[@jaredbennett7677]

@@Graelcase and is that not the case here? Pretty sure most people are aware that there is a sequel coming. Idk, either way the cliffhanger doesn't bother me as much, and felt like it applied to this story, not something that belonged in a different movie 🤷‍♂️

[@thegreyinitiate3680]

Both Gwen and Miles are being faced with what they believe to be their upcoming canon events, both involving the death of their fathers as “the police captain”. Gwen is spending her time trying to avoid it and run from it, so as to not go back and have her father die while hating her. Miles rejects the idea of them entirely, and is actively trying to prevent his from happening. The conflict of the story is how they both deal with it, as well as everyone figuring out how to break this revelation to Miles, since Gwen, Miguel, and Peter B all knew about this and chose to not loop him in/tell him about it. Miguel believes that Miles is a mistake that shouldn’t exist, which by his own logic is wrong, since universe 42 still exists long after the spider was taken from it. So him going to that world at the end is fitting because he is supposed to be the spiderman of that world, and it’s devolved into chaos without him present.

[@halgerson]

I was 13 when I saw the Fellowship of the Ring. I had never read any of the books, or even heard of it. I just went because my best friend (who had read the books) was correctly excited to see it. At the end, I was definitely confused about why the story was ending in the middle. That said, it also didn't bother me at the time, especially once my buddy explained that it was part one of a trilogy.

[@Eval999]

You ABSOLUTELY get the end of Gwen's character arc in this movie! It's why they show her first! They just messed up showing Miles last.

[@nathancarter8239]

This episode is fun, because it's Brandon being wowed and Dan refusing to be wowed. SPOILERS: Per the closing joke, Dan is wrong. I do want to point out, though, that Gwen is thematically-tied to Miguel's rhetoric surrounding the canon events. It's clear that the cop who will die in her canon event is her father, and the fact he walks away from being a cop at the end of her arc is a subtle indication that canon events are bull crap because nothing happens in her universe. I had a hard time with it, but I also see the points on the other Prowler on Earth-42. He's introduced as a last-minute twist and it's hard to see what he's going to do in the next movie.

[@nicholascarter9158]

Something I realized about the other prowler is that if canon events are real this universe not having a spider man *at all* should have been enough to trigger a collapse.

[@TheLordofMetroids]

It's also the thing that happened in Mumbai was clearly something very different from what happened in Miguel's world. I'm like 85% sure of The Spot caused it.

[@TheLordofMetroids]

​@@nicholascarter9158That's a good point. I was thinking if Miles isn't supposed to be Spider-Man then he has no "canon events,"but no your right his very existence should cause a collapse.

[@Ruminations09]

I don't want to spend too much time nitpicking Dan's opinions - suffice it to say that I agree with Brandon WAY more than Dan here, and I also felt that this movie was by most metrics better than the first one. Instead, I want to narrow in on Dan's final point where he complains that modern movies are getting longer. This is a common perception, but is not one that is supported by data. Movies like Oppenheimer do exist, but they are offset by shorter movies. According to IMDB's database, average runtimes have been pretty consistent since the 1960's - if anything, there's actually a NEGATIVE trend. It's just that *so many* movies are made that there can be a ton of really long movies that aren't able to offset that trend. Gone With the Wind was 3 hours 42 minutes, and it came out in 1940. The Godfather was 3 hours long, and Part II was a half hour longer than that. Cleopatra was just shy of 4 hours. Long movies are hardly a new thing.

[@samhuntress]

I think you guys are wrong about the ending. Maybe it's just Marvel Fatigue, but I really enjoyed the surprise cliffhanger and I like that some setup for part 2 is built in this way instead of being hidden after the credits. I felt great leaving the theater with high energy anticipation high for the rest of the story. I don't think you can hit that same energy with a more "complete" ending.

[@gabep8595]

A tidbit that will likely play into the next movie and is impossible to catch without pausing is that when they show Miles’ radioactive spider before it’s pulled into our main Miles’ universe, it looks like it was about to bite this alternate Miles who eventually becomes the prowler. So Miles gets to deal with the identity crisis that comes from the fact that our Miles should’ve never been bitten and he was given this alternate Miles’ destiny. Conversely, if our Miles was never bitten, was it his destiny to become the Prowler after his uncle? Miles is going to have to ultimately tackle the canon event fight in a much more personal way

[@StephanG007]

I love that this movie basically admits that the core thing that keeps Spiderman profitable as a franchise is his suffering, and that if we ever tried to remove his trauma qnd give him a happy life the storylines would fail and fade away. And that if too many writers tried it, it would kill the entire franchise.

[@manuelvilar2242]

Gwen's canon event was her father dying, but she accidentally changes it. I kinda feel Miles is going to convert his enemies into his allies. Evil Miles becomes the Spiderman of his Verse. The Spot sacrificing himself to heal the quantum holes. Miguel learns to let go. Cheesy, but it's the only ending I can see with the themes of story.

[@nicholascarter9158]

Spot yes, Miguel no, in my opinion.

[@kaikalter]

So I give a little explanation about the question raised about the Netherlands and Scandinavia. The Netherlands, and it's people, the dutch are of Germanic descent (In the same way the Italian are of Roman descent). The Germanic peoples and languages find their origin (as is hypothesised) in Southern Sweden and Northern Denmark, spreading North and South from there. Along with the people and language they also brought some elements of culture, but through later trade between the Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavia much of this was also established. As for the question about whether we see vikings as our heritage, that is not so much the case. Up until the dutch revolt the Netherlands is seen and treated as being no different to Germany (then the holy roman empire), so for us it mostly knights we look to. Unfortunately dutch history classes does not go into much depth for any history preceding the dutch revolt, taking a fairly neutral stand point on anything before that. We do have the same fascination with vikings as the Americans seem to have, but it is not our heritage That being said, I do not think I have found a country where I feel more at home outside the Netherlands than Denmark, the architecture is not too different, the land is mostly flat as well, and the people look very similar. And no, nobody in the Netherlands considers us to be part of Scandinavia.

[@shelleyelli]

Showed this to my 12 yr old son and said “look, that’s Dan Wells” because the Cleaver Series is one of his very favorites. He said “he looks the way I always imagined Grandpa Smedry would look.” Hehehe

[@mlarson154]

Roger Ebert famously said, "No good movie is long enough. And no bad movie is short enough."

[@glass12]

I feel the complete opposite about the ending of the film. I think having the cliffhanger, seeing Miles confronting this other version of himself, and seeing Gwen gathering all their allies is a perfect ending for this as it will leave people talking and speculating long enough until the next movie comes around. Also, why do we need to care so much about Prowler Miles? You are talking as if he is going to be the lead in the next movie for some reason, he is just another challenge for OUR Miles, who is there, and we are still following his story just like we did for two movies now. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but seeing Brandon talking about how he liked that Miles is still in the process of growing, being now a teenager, and then just saying he thinks Miles confronting another version of himself is a "side quest" feels very contradictory. "This other random guy" really?

[@jjj7790]

Also Prowler Miles is 100% a thing about Miles' complicated feelings about his uncle, being both terrified of him for being a villain and also Aaron being basically the family member who Miles had the strongest bond with before his murder. However Prowler Miles turns out will essentially confirm/de-confirm if his Uncle was actually poisoning his life (retroactively justifying the rift that existed in his family when he was alive), and if being a hero/good person was ever inherent to his nature without the bite changing him.

[@glass12]

@@jjj7790 Totally, that is why calling it some "random dude" feels so wrong, this is like really important. I guess they forgot all about the first movie for some reason.

[@MicahBlackLight]

Exactly! Like how can he even USE the word “random” in this situation??

[@llsilvertail561]

Dan your media opinions make me so sad T-T. I 100% agree they fumbled the ending so bad, but I disagree that it screws up the entire movie. Like, they either needed to end it earlier so right after he escapes, or a little later with him escaping the other him or something, tho if I’d known it was a part 1 it wouldn’t have disappointed me as much even if it ended in the same place it did. That said, I refuse to let the ending mess (too much) with my rating of the movie T-T. Like god it’s so good and a little bit of fumbling is only enough to make me bump it down from like a 9.5 to a 9. I don’t think the whole Miles showing up as Prowler was random tho. Like, one of the major things the story was getting you to question is fate, canon events, etc., so a version of Miles showing up as The Prowler makes complete sense esp considering we’ve known Miles for 2 movies now, so what must’ve happened for him to end up as a bad guy? Also the whole thing this movie (and Spider-Man as a whole to some extent) was about identity, so showing such a sharp difference between two versions of the same person makes a lot of sense themes-wise.

[@ThatOtherOtherGuy]

Contrary opinion: I thought Spider-verse's ending was great. The first movie is about Miles learning to be Spider-man, and the second is about Miles learning to be Miles. It takes the whole movie but I felt satisfied at the end that Miles had figured himself out. Delaying the catharsis of that self-realization and abruptly putting Miles into a more hostile environment than he's ever been in before was really fun, I thought, since a world of villains is such an easy problem for Miles. He spends the whole movie conflicted about what to do, but once he figures himself out all that tension is gone, even though he's captured. All he can do, all he needs to do is be Miles and be Spider-man. That little smirk he gives at the end was very cathartic in its own way!

[@senseweaver01]

2:00 - Those thieves should've known butter

[@favna]

6:19 Dutch person chiming in, we would never say "Dutch vikings". Furthermore regarding the Frisian point, in modern times that only refers to one of those most northern provinces "Friesland" (losely translated "Frisian land")

[@isaacshatford6777]

BEURRE-glars. (I know it's French, but the pun's too good to pass up)

[@sscrono]

Me seeing Dan criticize a movie I never watched or disliked: 😂🥰😊 Me seeing Dan criticize a movie I love: 😫😠😵

[@alexanderzinovyev2510]

Finding the video with my most adorable author speaking about my most adorable film of the year is the most incredible thing for a really long time! Thank you for this, it was amazing! Regarding the spider-verse you didn't mention the most exciting soundtrack of all time, i think Daniel Pamberton really made his Magnum opus and it was such a great experience in the theatre, that i download it to my phone as soon as i could and enjoying it every day (literally) Speaking of "evil" Miles in the end... There was a deleted scene (HUGE SPOILERS MAY OCCUR) there Miles with his uncle steal medicines from villains to pass it to Miles's mom, working on the hospital. So, i suppose, in the universe without spider-man it was the only way to become an anti-hero and fighting the evil. I think next part will start with co-op of 2 Miles to bring justice to this world and finding a way to go back home and save everyone from the Spot. Let's see what Miller and Lord have to show us) I totally disagree, that conflict between Miles and his parents is the same, as in previous one. They never had trust issues earlier. Miles wasn't late to every family meeting, wasn't out lying to them and the only problem was that they were not listening to each other. Now they face this new reality where their son is grown and know what he wants but he cannot be honest with parents. I think their relationships are growing as well and I'm really excited to see how it will work in the next movie. Gwen's scene in the beginning was such a great presentation of the character, that i think we're all would like to see others spiders like this. Miles has an entire movie to present himself, but Gwen is one of the main characters as well, thus she deserved to have at least these 20 minutes in the beginning. It was touching, beautiful and meaningful. Thank you again, it was really cool to see and hear. I wish we will have another video with discussing of the third movie after it's premier)))

[@oberon9015]

The best part of the movie to me and the most clever part is how they made the multiverse and Miles' engagement with Spider Society act as an allegory for an ethnic minority encountering societal barriers to their progress based on immutable characteristics. Prowler Miles isn't meant to be the big villain - it's just a promise to further explore how systemic pressures can negatively shape a person when they don't have the financial and familiar support that our Spider-Man has..

[@Seth1459]

The reason for the opening w Gwen is cause this movie is about her (B) story same as how Into was about Peter B Parker. Obviously Miles is the main (A) overarching story, but the other characters have gotten a movie go showcase their own personal growth. The real question is if movie 3 will have another B story about a single character and if so then who? Probably Miguel, but thats just a guess.

[@ravensguard_3227]

There’s a theory that our miles was destined to be the prowler, when miles spider sense goes off in the first movie and meets Peter miles color scheme is purple and green (prowler colors) and it eventually syncs to Peter’s red and blue. Peter dies after. In the second movie I believe at the beginning it shows the spider being taken from evil miles universe, and it shows what looks like that spider moving toward that evil miles to bite him to be that universe Spider-Man. So in theory they switched destiny’s. Our mines became the good guy Spider-Man and that miles goes villan as the prowler.

[@Ljcoleslaw]

Spider-man topic starts at 8:40

[@LarthV]

On the issue on danish pirates, in the 14th/15th century there were the victual brothers in the north and baltic sea, raiding all the trading ships of the various powers (Sweden, Denmark, Hanseatic League etc.) they could get their hands on. As one would assume for pirates, they very likely had a regionally diverse background, so one would assume germans, danes, swedes, frisians and the like teaming up. They are actually quite similar to the buccaneers in various respects ("proto democratic" structures, part time privateering, ...), just some four hundred years earlier. It's actually quite interesting - like when the Teutonic order stormed their stronghold on now swedish gotland, you had literally 'knights vs. pirates', which is adventure wise probably one of the coolest ideas ever.

[@_mitchmatched_]

Welcome to the comment section y'all!

[@koltonkulis4763]

Regarding the LoTR angle, for what it's worth, my wife was very disappointed after watching Fellowship. She didn't realize there were three movies and she expected Sauron to be defeated by the end of the movie.

[@n88466]

It's nice to agree with Dan on occasion

[@vPeteWalker]

Didn’t seem like you guys realized that the prowler was actually Miles in another universe, because you call him “this guy” or something like that and not Miles.

[@robbybevard8034]

I enjoyed AtSV but agree that its lack of ending hurts. If the third film nails the landing this becomes an all time classic, and if it fails it drags it down. And the film is definitely ART. Just really sucks to find out they put the art team through ridiculously bad crunch for hugely long periods, that the directors had them reanimate some scenes dozens of times, FINISHED animation! for minor tweaks and it's just... that taints it all. Figure it out in the boarding phase guys. A week or two of crunch near the end happens with any art project, but a solid year of crunch for the entire team is just bad management.... The fact that they were still making changes AFTER the movie came out? That was fun when we thought they did two versions and had budgeted time for alternate takes to be cute and both versions would be on the home release. But to find out that's just a result of them abusing the artists, and we're only getting a copy of the later version, really really hurts the film for me.

[@b0mblebeetuna]

Greetings from a Danish 'viking' (albeit non-saucaneer) who thoroughly enjoys every episode. Mange tak!

[@sntxrrr]

Given that the Netherlands once had a huge naval empire we indeed also had plenty of Dutch pirates. Most plundered the Spanish fleet, sometimes supported by the Dutch government or private companies like the Dutch West Indies Company. One worth mentioning was Cornelis Corneliszoon Jol, he was the rare case of a pirate who did actually have a wooden peg for a leg, another curious trait of his for that time was that he often set slaves free.

[@masonguthrie1257]

Gonna be honest I feel like you guys may have undervalued Gwen’s part in the movie or in general did not realize that this part was equally Miles and Gwen’s story. While I get the ending with the prowler seemed a bit clunky which I agree I don’t mind it as much considering that we get the end of Gwen’s arc in the movie so I would say there still is a satisfying ending at least in my opinion.

[@th3lonef0x4]

Just had the thought of whether Brandon would ever play Signalis. There is a screen in that game which reads "This space intentionally left blank." Seeing the title of this show just reminded me of that. Would be interesting to see Brandon's thoughts on that game.

[@beLIEver31415]

You know I have said "why are movies so long and paced so poorly now!?" recently but looking back and watching movies from the 90's I'm somehow always shocked when they are 2.5+ hours and it really makes me think Brandon is 100% right that they have just always been this way and I am just fatigued by it or something. I had no idea this was a Part 1 so I can definitely say although I loved the movie overall I have yet to watch it again b/c I don't really want to until the next one comes out for the conclusion then I expect I'll watched them back to back or very near each other and was a bit disappointed by it. However that is also how I watch LOTR so maybe there's a point that maybe just the not knowing was the bigger problem for me and depending how they finish the story they started I'll just love these just the same :D

[@kendalldoer5466]

Gotta say I agree with Dan on this one - 1 was a much tighter movie narratively than 2, even though 2 had cool animation

[@levimusgrave5683]

I've never had one of these episodes where I've agreed so full-heartedly with Dan

[@Adam_okaay]

Vikings are amphibious assault ships. There were Varangian Pirates in the Mediterranean, Harold Hastrada was a Varangian guard and Varangian Pirate.

[@SauceMario]

The real conflict is the concept of the canon event. The spiders believe in it and have essentially given up the will to fight it. They've lost a part of what it means to be spiderman. Miles hasn't accepted it and still maintains the will to fight. That's essential to the Spider-Man archetype. To keep getting up no matter the hits taken. Even if the hit is inevitable failure.

[@jodinsan]

Speaking of video game cameos, this might be super obvious but in the two scenes Miles roommate is in, he is playing Spider-Man 2 which apparently came out a year earlier in their dimension than it did in ours.

[@jamcdonald120]

I love that at sone point in history the following conversation happened. "Hey, do you want to go viking in northern France next month?" "I duno man, do you mean like Paris? Everyone goes Viking in Paris, why cant we go somewhere more exotic like Ireland? I hear there is great viking in Ireland! Lots of senic monistaties and quaint sea-side villages!" "Sure, I havent been viking in Ireland for quite a while!"

[@finchharper4647]

Can you leave the Christmas Tree up and decorate each month, for the current holiday? So put all Valentines decorations on the tree, then Saint Pats and Easter?

[@Crow.Author]

I feel Modern Hollywood’s biggest issue, is that they’ve forgotten film is in itself an art form, not a formula. Sure, modern films contain lots of art: their scores, their visuals, their performances, but most studios just look at film itself as a way to market the next one.

[@TheScwall]

I absolutely 110% agree that they ended the movie in the wrong spot - BUT - I do think that all the little hints and easter eggs - Such as Mile's spider-sense when he 1st meets his world's Parker being green & purple (prowler's colors), or that Prowler's theme is Mile's Theme reversed - suggests to me that this has been the plan from the beginning, and I feel that the writers at this point have earnt enough good credit that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[@kaysterae]

I wholeheartedly agree with Dan. Since the resolutions were so sparse, it made me feel like there was no progression. It felt really dark and depressing because of it. I agree, it ended in the wrong spot, but like Brandon said, I see why they did it. The movie didn’t end with a glimmer of hope moment that felt big enough to override the gravity and despair the movie contained. It was a stepping stone movie where the characters themselves didn’t accomplish much of anything, except unearthing problems. Also, Gwen finding out that fate can be changed was cool, but then why didn’t her universe get destroyed for it while other universes were? Why was Prowler Miles allowed to exist while Miguel’s fantasy world was not. It’s a bit of a problem that perhaps will be addressed later on, but seems pretty problematic right now. I get what Dan is saying. Beautifully animated. But for enjoyability, it was less than I was hoping for. I think movies with multiple parts should feel like its own complete thing. That is going to be one very busy third movie. I hope it doesn’t end up being too rushed.

[@FundamentallyLazy]

This is one of the rare occasions in which I agree with Dan more than Brandon. The movie sure looked better than the first one and soundtrack was banger but other than that nothing worked for me.

[@Omni798]

I would say films have always been long. Perhaps Hollywood blockbusters are getting longer, but in my (admittedly limited) experience with older, auteur films, many range from two hours to like… seven.

[@jaspermooren5883]

As a Dutch person, I don't know any Dutch person that considers the vikings a part of there heritage. I couldn't find a lot about Frisian vikings, in fact all I could find about at least the Frisians that mostly lived in the Netherlands (Northern Frisia, what is now the western coast of Denmark, were more viking-eske) is that they were conquered by the Vikings for a while. At least culturally we don't consider ourselves vikings, but I'm not from Friesland (a province in the north with still a fairly independent cultural identity, including their own language), I'm in fact from the south relatively close to the German border which is practically the heartland of what was Charlemagne's empire (Aachen is just an hour's ride away from here and that was the capital). But honestly for most Dutch, at least culturally, 'our' history doesn't really start until the rise of an independent Netherlands in the late 16th century. Before that the region what is now the Netherlands was more or less constantly conquered by all kinds of external powers, including the Vikings apparently, and borders were drawn right through what is now the Netherlands all the time. Our medieval history is often talked about in the broader European sense of feudal lords, or in the really local level, so the history of this specific castle, or that town. It's really only when the Netherlands became independent and a major player on the world stage that a unified history started to exist culturally in the modern zeitgeist at least. So no, at least most Dutch don't consider themselves vikings at all. Maybe if you ask someone from Friesland they consider it part of their heritage, but I've never heard it at least, not even in the several times I've been to Friesland or from my Friesian colleges I work with every day.

[@Blixthand]

The "geats" as in Beowulf most likely refer to people who lived in what is modern day Sweden, most likely in the region we today call Götaland (the land of the "götar", which is likely what geats has morphed into over the past 1000 years). A couple of years ago there were some claims that it might refer to the island of Gotland, which is also part of modern Sweden, but off the coast. So the geats were Scandinavians and "Swedish", not some own country that still exists in that sense today. I'm not sure about the Gotland theory, but I do subscribe to the theory that the story of Beowulf probably originated in Sweden, or at least Scandinavia, and reached England via the vikings, where it was written down. Why would some English storyteller make up a story of Swedish hero king who went to Denmark to slay a monster and then went back home to Sweden to slay a dragon, seemingly without ever setting foot in anything that could be called Britain?

[@Eval999]

Evil miles did not come out of nowhere to be fair. It was built up to brilliantly. It just was an annoying place to cut it.

[@Squiggly6942]

I also like long form storytelling I love Spider-verse 2. I got upset about the cliffhanger also, but it was very good.

[@khyrianstorms]

On the Netherlands: You're correct on the Germanic, but we don't see ourselves as Scandinavian or descendants of Vikings. We also don't view ourselves as Frisians, this is just the upper North (10% of our country). The interesting idea behind the Dutch is that we are very influenced by our trade history. During our horrible VOC time, we traded so much and were a bit of a world power with one of the most powerful harbours. And this includes a lot of colonisation. Because of this, most of our food culture is influenced by spices. It's also why our country is such a melting pot of Indonesian, Turkish and Moroccan influences. Trade is one important pillar of our country. We are very capitalistic, as well as technology- and marketing-centric (even our government has next-level branding, which is all over KZbin). Beyond that, agriculture has defined most of our culture. In food, you can see this in the multiple varieties of potato mashes, the high focus on meat and dairy (which was also funded by a government campaign in the 80s and 90s). HOWEVER: this trade was built on our big maritime advancements, and we are third in coffee consumption. In a lot of ways, we have things in common with the Finnish.

[@mrbadger7395]

I felt that they needed more of an ending instead of an introduction as an ending. Made it seem like a tv show but it still was a good watch

[@nathanielpercell5238]

Dan's right, the first one was better. This one had some major story flaws.

[@christopherschmidt8343]

Dan is SO wrong. Just kidding. I agree with a lot of his points and what Sanderson says at the end about "Beyond" having a strong impact on how Across is remembered is how I've felt since it was in theaters. I think Across is a great movie but I enjoyed other animated movies more because they had more self-contained stories.

[@SunRayz3r]

I can’t really explain why, but I enjoyed Across the SV much better than Into the SV. Part of it might be, that style had grown on me from since the first one. I think the plot was more tightly wound, with more suspense that kept me very engaged.

[@jodinsan]

I personally liked the cliffhanger and the reveal of the Prowler. Both movies so far have been about Miles and his struggle with his identity. First as a teen, then as Spiderman, and at the end he is forced to look at himself as a whole against someone who lived a _significantly different_ life.

[@TrentRyanKatzenberger]

I didn’t think I could get angry when discussing media but Dan saying the movie was DISAPPOINTING of all things? Dan…. It’s literally perfect. It’s a work of art. What is wrong with you?

[@VivianStorm]

I genuinely believe that Across the spider verse is the best superhero film ever made - not just in animation, but in the whole superhero genre. Had tears in my eyes watching the movement in the fights, cause they were that beautiful!

[@fifth_noble8022]

For me the Canon Event concept is comparable to the Variant Timelinr concept in Loki-consequently sharing the same issue. It makes the active decisions made by the heroes seem less noble. With that concept I don’t think there’s such a thing as With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, because EVERY Spider-Man. I can’t quite articulate what I mean into a KZbin comment-but I know what I’m trying to say haha

[@mcolmchuck5341]

I think Dan missed a key point in Across the Spiderverse's story. The film obviously needs some level of resolution, but given that it's a part one film that resolution cannot be for Miles (even though Miles is learning things about himself, clearly). That's why Gwen takes the spotlight at the beginning, and why she gets some great attention towards the end with her father. So while the MAIN main character doesn't get a satisfying resolution to his arc (because part one), the not-Miles main character does get resolution and decides to break from Spider-Man tradition and canon event thinking. The Gwen angle was brilliant! As for the cliffhanger, I found it to be compelling because it's not some random villain/antihero/whatever, it's the version of Miles that SHOULD HAVE become Spider-Man and didn't due to the events from the first movie. Incorporating that universe to display the ramifications of messing with the multiverse was a great choice, and the cliffhanger leaves the audience to ponder on the two different versions of Miles, how they came to their current states, and what might have been different had Green Goblin not pushed Spider-Man into the collider sequence in the first place. I found this satisfying along the same line as Thanos winning against the Avengers in Infinity War. Obviously that film wasn't over and we knew there was a part two coming (which was nowhere near as good as Infinity War), but the team still lost, and it has actual consequences.

[@Eval999]

Episodes are so short now D:

[@danielthornton2046]

That food heist sounds like the work of the Vanishers.

[@bimalgarg95]

Dan is the spitting image of "that colonel character" from the British TV show "Ghosts".

[@Vendictusx]

We Dutch do not consider ourselves Scandinavian. The Frisians used to have their own country in the north of the Netherlands (pre 1814) and still have their own lenguage and anthem. Culturally we are more a farming and naval trade nation like the English and have more in common with them then with the Germans or Scandinavians.

[@misskorra4]

I 100% agree with every point Dan made.

[@AlexLusth]

Its cold in the north right now, they could probably just store the butter in a trailer outside tbh.

[@mayedalshamsi5726]

please make these longer

[@ItsAvarus]

My theory is that miles prowler isn't gonna be a bad guy. I think he'll try and help miles. Prowler miles was supposed to be spider man I really doubt he'll be a villain. Let me know your thoughts on this!!

[@kyrroti]

I’m glad we started with Gwen. The Gwen stuff resonated the most with me. It felt like her own issues led her to hurting Miles, but a lot of that was resolved. Peter and Gwen both need to apologize to Miles, but it looks like they’ll be there for their friend in the next one.

[@mcolmchuck5341]

I think it was also critical to have there be a resolution for a main character, and that character could not be Miles this time, not with a part one film. I love that they gave Gwen the spotlight and gave her some resolution with her father.

[@3ddify]

I agree with Dan, I went in expecting a self contained movie and got a part one. Nothing really felt resolved, just delayed. The surprise twist was just an extra thing that doubled down that feeling. There's no way to rate it in my mind because it feels like I've only watched half a movie.

[@kaladongstormguy]

Spoilers for Spider-Verse 2 (And Miles' origin in the comics) I think one thing that made the reveal of AU Miles being the Prowler was that in Miles' original comic book story one of the primary conflicts was Miles grappling with the fear that he couldn't live up to the mantle of Spider-man. And this was complicated by the fact that his Uncle Aaron was trying to get him to use his abilities for crime and join him as the Prowler. Aaron's last words are "you are just like me" iirc. And that really stuck with Miles. So to see a universe where Miles actually went down that dark path was really cool. But that only landed because I had outside knowledge so it probably wasn't the best possible ending for the movie.

[@NotMeButAnother]

I've heard the argument made that Across was a rare decently well done portrayal of some of the difficulties in interracial relationships.

[@mlarson154]

This is a question I have always had. Why does Brandon put the signed pages in 4 different piles? Is it just for fun?

[@dichotomy5750]

I belive to let the ink dry longer before he sets another one on top of it