Finding the Perfect Saddle Height (in a real-world situation)

[@roadcyclingacademy]

The RCA would like to thank our two members (Ben and Glenda) for allowing their fits to be filmed recently. Obviously Neill is a biomechanical guru from another planet, but perhaps the unsung hero from these videos is our Member Success & Social Media Manager (Craig Wiggins) who's getting hours of footage and packaging it all up into a nice bite sized dose of real world bike fitting. So thanks to all involved! Cam

[@abedfo88]

Awesome job guys

[@martinkroutil]

Absolutely fascinating videos, thank you guys. Neill indeed is a biomechanical guru from another planet.

[@shrkys4]

Physiology sleuthing! Would this also apply to a varus tibia on the non-dominant leg?

[@davidmclaughlin5431]

Would be nice to see a "one month later, how are they getting on" followup.

[@durianriders]

These bike fits are so valuable to the cycling community. Neils ability to explain the situation and why and what changes he is making makes him the gold standard of bike fitting on social media right now.

[@doncompton9453]

Wow. 30 mm. Really enjoy your videos. I have been watching your videos for quite some time and I decided to switch from 175-165 crank arms. I have arthritic hips and have always suffered from back problems and even quit riding for a few years. I started riding again in Jan '22 and switched the cranks. After a year my back and hip pain have disappeared.. And by the way I am 72yo.

[@angustroutman3494]

When might Neil's 2024 tour dates be announced? 😬

[@coryrood]

What I wouldn't give to go through a fitting with Neil!

[@MoMo-br4bp]

U dont understand how excited i get when i see a new fit video from neil

[@lukewalker1051]

Neil showing his talent setting himself apart from others and I have been around fittings for a long time. Ben has some strong legs.

[@timfarhaven9647]

You could honestly upload a full 3 hour bikefitting session to this channel and i'd listen to it as a podcast. The way Neil talks about bikefitting, seeing issues with his own eyes and explaining how and why things (don't) work is an incredible show of hours and hours and hours of bikefitting and also having a bit of a talking talent. Love the stuff peeps!

[@lenolenoleno]

Love this series/format. Massively interesting/entertaining. Could listen to Neil ramble all day.

[@Stefanosinf]

Can't get enough of these... Hoping to learn more and more... Sadly we are in the opposite sides of the world, i would loved to be bike fitted by you....

[@patrickparisienne1917]

Love watching the master at work! The thing is that all the changes are logical from a geometry point of view once explained. I appreciate that Neill tries to work with the equipment that is in front of him, rather than making wholesale or expensive changes unless necessary ( like different crank lengths etc.) Neill having a global outlook over the whole fit was reinforced when he suggested the smaller frame for his next bike. Well done, great video!

[@jaylumbago559]

That was really interesting. If I would know that someone of Neills quality and competence was doing bike fits in my part of the world, I would book a session immediately.

[@DIASDEMUSICA]

Neil, you should be doing a tour through different contries, to adjust cyclists all over the world that unfortunately don´t live there in Australia. Best bikefitter in the world!!

[@perseverance9888]

Great idea if you came to the US. I would book an appointment

[@JohnnyRabbitQC]

Since the first videos with Neill Stanbury, I learned a lot and I am pretty close of being well fitted on my bikes. Thanks a lot, your channel is a gold mine of knowledge!

[@bradleyandrews4007]

Staggering my cleat setback was a game changer. Tried cleat shims on my shorter leg which didn’t do the job but it helped me feel or realize that my right pelvis was moving forward slightly on the saddle when my right foot was forward-most in the pedal stroke. Moved the right cleats forward until my pelvis stayed planted and now I always know I’m low enough on the saddle height when I don’t see my right knee flicker at the bottom of the stroke! No shims in the end. Fellow physio and love all the content - nothing I’ve seen is comparable and I’ve learned a ton from it. Next up is a fit to get that last 20% or so it feels like I’m still leaving on the table.

[@Zwiftsushi]

This is interesting. Thank you

[@cup_and_cone]

I'd be curious in hearing Neill's thoughts on most bike cranksets having an offset q-factor. On Shimano road cranks, it tends to be 2-4mm offset toward the driveside of the bike (meaning the driveside pedal is a few millimeters further out than the non-driveside pedal). I've pretty much never heard any bike fitter ever discuss that the pedals can be a different distance to the centerline of the bike (especially on some crankset/BB combos that require shimming). Is this a negligible amount or something to consider when setting up cleats and fitting? I was thinking about it the other week, measured five different bikes in my house, and every one was a few mills wider on the driveside. It is ironic Shimano offer +4mm axles on their pedals, which is about the difference between each side....maybe we all should be running +4mm axles on our non-driveside. 😁

[@martinkroutil]

Yes, I can confirm. I have no idea why Shimano does this but their cranks are about those 2-4mm out of center. I would like to hear Neils thoughts on this too. I did compensate on this changing qfactor on my cleat when I first found this. I did not notice any diference thou.

[@davidc352]

I would like to say a big thanks to Neil! In the past he helped me with his website (before this yt channel started) and with the real bike fit scenarios i could find out, why i would have the problems, which i have (like one sided saddle sores and back pain in hard road races lile crits). I have a int/ext rotation in the right hip of 45°/45°, but in the left hip it's 5°/85°, which would imply assymetrical hip joints (which would make sense, as i had the same problem with basic exercices my whole life. The cause of Problems on the bike has been: twisted pelvis (which caused the saddle sores) and a shorter right leg. My pelvis was insanely unstable on the bike. No matter what i've done. My left leg kicked the hip at the top of the pedal stroke upwards and causing with the unsquared sitting all the problems (which doesnt blocked me from producing good Watts (485W for 5min @77kg). And after studying all of the videos i really wish i would live in australia, but maybe one day we can meet. I could, with your input, stagger the left cleat back couple mm and outwards bit more, and shimming the right leg for 2mm. I don't feel like it's enough, but i'm just observing the stuff by looking at mirrors in front of me and sideways, and video footage from behind and the most important thing, body feeling. My pelvis is stable as never before only having a gently motion left, and i didnt know good you can feel on a roadbike. Thanks!

[@sigfreed11]

It was definitely of interest - thanks Neill!

[@fraserherman8754]

Love watching your fit videos! Good to see you fit someone with such a big change who has ridden for so long and have them feel that much better on the bike.

[@jamesinrok]

Watching these videos always make me want to jump on a plane to Australia to have an appointment with Neil.

[@nicklewiscycling]

To me that saddle looks too low at first glance. But then to see the stability posteriorly and his knees from front on it looks so much better! Great to watch the master at work

[@voquocthang9389]

Thank you so much RCA for this video. After training Muay Thai 10 years, my right leg is longer than the left one (same thing with my hands). I have the same issue with this video and I apply your solution to my case. That is fantastic! In addition, I usually watch RCA videos about saddle, seat height and especially crank length (I'm following aerobic philosophy (MAF - maximum aerobic function), so I choose short crank). These videos help me a lot. Thank you so much again for things you have done and share to us - global cycling lovers.

[@paulgabatan5089]

Huge changes on the way he pedals. Good job neil, awesome work

[@mathias8013]

These are the best videos on the channel and the reason I followed at the first place. Keep em up!

[@ihov.rivera9924]

I don't miss your videos, they have helped me understand many things, a while ago I changed the cranks to 165 since I suffer from hip impinchement on the left side; The pain has disappeared in the front part but I still have discomfort in my lower back on the same side, I tried to put the Shimano adapters in my shoes, it seemed to work but it caused pain in my knee and that's why I removed them. Now that I see this video I think maybe I should move the left shoe clicks forward, ill try and revert keep posting man, Very grateful

[@felixjackson2670]

That was of huge interest. Thank you.

[@swites]

Bike fitter extraordinaire! Love the way Neil explains everything down to the fine details.

[@michaellane1316]

Aging affects all joint leverage points. It was nice to see how a fit for an now older rider is accomplished. Same for myself, 1/4 to 1/2 inch shorter on right due to hip misalignment and broken angle when young. Yet, I have never compensated in shoes, cleats. Not a competitive cyclist but at 68, trying to understand and make adjustments for my physicality pertaining to seat height, fore and aft positioning, tilt, etc. Being in the seat for extended periods of time however is taxing and if the seat, (comfort), positioning is not correct then we all know the ride will be more taxing throughout and end up possibly not able to complete. I have never been fitted, my own trial and error and utube videos have provided enough to put myself close enough to be comfortable. The whole idea behind riding is comfort, regardless, so being able to get the proper fit is essential in enjoying this. Thanks for the insights.

[@mikeowen000]

Love these videos with Neill. I always learn something new.

[@christopherrichards387]

I'm the same. 6'1 - 2 (186cm) and always ridden a 58 frame. 43 yo old now and ben riding for 17 years and in that time my saddle height has differed by around the same amount.

[@foresure7181]

It is so impressive to watch someone create art in a role where you traditionally wont find "art". I'm not saying Neill can't paint the Mona Lisa but you get the point. The expertise is unreal, the walk through of the process and the constant evaluation with critical thinking really makes a difference. When Neill started about femur length I was mind blown as the "bike fit" is a rubiks cube and to see the methodology behind the process is awesome. Would love to come down next year and get a dialed fit.

[@karltonmcleod1395]

Loving these videos Neil. Almost like having you back in Melbourne! As natural on and off camera. Amazing!!! Keep em coming.

[@christianemeiners9224]

Professor Neill, just listening to the plethora of knowledge barrage coming from him is awesome. 👏😃⭐️

[@madmick9205]

Has someone who used to be a personal trainer. I end up with serious injuries and issues. Really is so frustrating.. I'm or was an elite distance runner, also very elite in the gym for squats. I know my technique displays an imbalance in my body. Long story short. I can no longer run due an undiagnosed calf problem. No one can figure it out. So I swapped to a bike. I'm not much suited to it because it is a completely different thing in too many ways. But, I need these video's to learn from. No bike fitters close by, then you need to know a good one! So coupled with my own experience and learning, I have been able to massively improve my understanding of my position on the the bike. My leg issue killed me after 10 miles. Now, I've learned enough from RAC, to increase my distance from 10 to 50 miles. I can even go further too. If you are near this dude, get a fit. I am looking for someone near enough to me to do the same. But, my point is this. This dudes channel will get you very very close for free. I love the channel. Thank you.

[@ffreichert]

Neill is the king! Hope to meet him one day! Thank for the content.

[@mykelneid6152]

Just another wow'er video. I'm amazed everytime about how well Neill is explaining things around adjustments and their dependencies while stil being easy to pick up and understand. Actually so much that eventho I am no fitter by any stretch I feel like an apprentice xD. GJ man, hope the fit is working out for Ben.

[@Ehnoismano1]

Hey lads, as always Mister Neill Stanbury puts on a show!! A suggestion for a future video: I suffered a tear in the medial meniscus of my left knee caused by a bad bike fit, I did physiotherapy and strengthening but the pain is still recurring. I ended up returning to the position I was used to riding in before the bike fit but my knee was never the same. They could make a video giving tips on how to adjust the bike to both prevent this problem and also to alleviate the pain if possible. I live in Brazil and here the bike fitters are very focused on Angles and most of them don't ask if you have any history of injuries or things like that. Your videos help me a lot to solve small problems for myself and my colleagues. Keep up this magnificent work. Thanks a lot.

[@siegfriedpfeifer1379]

Im in awe of this man! Love your content Neill!

[@jimflath1125]

Would love to see a video/fit that deals with bowed or kicked-out knees.

[@urouroniwa]

I could literally watch this stuff all day. It's fascinating!

[@juliacoenen4564]

Love it! Thanks so much!

[@Ninjump]

Wow, this is really powerful-Thank you so much for the video! I am an outlier with almost exactly Ben's symptoms. 8mm shorter femur and 6mm shorter foot due to corrective hip and flat foot surgeries i had on that side. I'm also his exact same height, rough age and ride the same frame size, what are the odds 😅 . Its taken me 10 years and a lot of testing to stumble onto the staggered cleat, but i never quite understood exactly why it worked better than most things we had tried. This video makes it so clear!

[@adrianm5147]

I love this channel! You rock bro!

[@donwinston]

That was interesting. I've finally convinced myself to get a bike fit just for kicks even though I don't have any apparent issues. I've never had one before. My normal ride in the summertime is 60 miles. If there was a problem you'd think it would be noticeable.

[@tay-lore]

You're just so amazing at what you do!

[@akejohansson6805]

Great work indeed 👍. Starting to consider a trip from Sweden for a bike fit by Neil...

[@crailwah]

Some of the best vids in KZbin

[@edwin_slager]

Great explenation in this fitting.

[@jpeelsolutions]

I have become fascinated by these bike fit videos, and can't help but notice in almost all cases the fit is leveraging clipless pedal/shoe combinations. any suggestions/thoughts as a flat pedal rider on foot placement. and with that bike fitting on flats? PS: I live in the US, but would almost book a trip just to Listen to Neil

[@Dustydayzz]

how i want to be fit by neil.i have a shorter leg as diagnosed by a bikefitter...was correct....instead of stacking shims he told me i could buy one shorter crank. now i ride 165/175 i feel normal. its just abit of extra work when buying a new bike

[@global_nomad.]

another great example of how the skill of the fitter is about more than numbers and data......would be good to understand how much time in might take for the body to adapt or familiarise to a new position, a few hours and tens of hours of riding and how much if any adjustment might be needed after that period...

[@StephanieLuff]

I’d be interested in a follow up!

[@madyogi6164]

"For sale..." Loved that!

[@BigRed1654]

Man I would love to get fit by Neil, just watching these videos reminds me I need to get a bike fit again.

[@jethrocooney9528]

So good incredible a true expert

[@P33me]

So, I have a leg lenth and foot lenth difference too. Ended up swapping one of my crank arms for a shorter one to compensate for the shorter leg. Now, after hearing Neill speak about leg length discrepanties I wonder if this was the best move for me. So, when are you visiting Holland Neill?

[@dakalla]

6:25 BMC owners tipp: if you push or hit with your palm from the bottom on the wrench after losening, so it pushes up the screw together with the cone of the seat clamp, the seatpost will be free to move without that terrible noise and feeling.

[@Gufolicious]

what a freaking magican neal is!

[@myPPPLab]

saddle pressure mapping will give very good clues.

[@rogerfaulkner8660]

Just watched your video,have tried to fit my bike,having 20mm short rhand femur due to bike accident,put 2omm spacer under rh cleat, but never felt right, never thought of moving cleats back or fwd. Could do with pro help, but had various bike fits but all don't suggest any alternative,thanks for Your demo,brilliant ,many thanks Roger Faulkner, uk

[@sarrow168]

i tried moving cleat forward after this vid , and it help , really help !!

[@jestag2]

Masterclass!! ❤

[@Zooga_Boy]

Ahhh yes. Time for my monthly bike fitting therapy session with Neil Stanbury.

[@mattsmallshot]

split into two screens to see the difference and holy cow the difference is HUGE!

[@perseverance9888]

Best fit I've ever seen for leg length discrepancy. Neil I had a standing x ray and I'm the opposite of this guy I have 12mm shorter right femur and slightly longer right foot . What would you suggest the opposite set up as him?. I do have 10 mm lift in my right shoe shorter leg and it seems to help . I also do feel better with the right shorter leg back more when I'm pedalling so I put the cleat forward on the right, because If the cleat is too far back I tend to slide forward on saddle and lean right it's not as stable. Any recommendations would be great 👍 Thanks for all you do I would definitely see you if you if you were in the United States

[@cameronALR6]

Once you watch enough of Neil's videos it's amazing how many people you see with seats that look too high. Almost never do you see anyone with a seat that looks too low

[@jeffreysaffir1375]

The bike fit whisperer.

[@Zwiftsushi]

Wouldn’t staggering cleats, enlist different muscle patterns? Great video though! Really interesting! I really enjoyed it

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

Why not change the crank length?

[@emilevandenbussche6929]

Hi Does Neill use some kind of wedging in his bikefits? Never seen him use it. Thanks for your response!

[@andrewheath5394]

RCA needs to start a new channel strictly about bike fits

[@perseverance9888]

Thank you Neil I have the same issue as this gentleman just the opposite legs . I had a standing x-ray confirming my right femur shorter. My question is would walking and running present the same setup inside your shoe with somewhat of a lift in the shoe of the shorter leg?

[@leftywedge]

Brilliant!

[@AndyK.23]

This makes me feel better - I was at 81cm saddle height 20 years ago, and now I'm thinking 78.5cm is too high for me now.

[@andrewg2586]

Hi Neil, I have question here, in Steve Hogs shimming tutorial, he stated that for every 5mm shim move the cleat back 1mm to prevent the rocking motion during hard effort. Why did you do the opposite here moving the cleat forward? I have a 10mm LLD in femur too, so I am facing the same issue .

[@robertosantoro9685]

Wouldn't be better to measure the foot length from the ankle to the metatarsal instead from the back of the heel? The back of the heel can be slightly different left to right yet it doesn't really affect the pedal stroke, does it?

[@JayLato]

2:04 get Vision Pro and have them record spatial video 😊

[@rcames05]

Thanks again for some great information. I wanted to ask your input about toe overlap. I have had a fit and got an appropriate bike. However I noticed that it behave some toe rubbing in slow start red cornering sometimes. Mostly when I run my wider gravel tires. Is this something to be concerned about or are there some inexpensive options for correcting? Thanks for your help. Love the content.

[@rcames05]

Sorry for some of that gibberish. I think you get the main point though.

[@purpleaki7135]

I have just had 2 bike fits in the past 8 months and I am still in so much pain. My left heel flares outwards and the more I push it out the less stain on my knee. While on the other side the right hamstring always seems under pressure. £350 down the drain.

[@InstaKane]

I get no pain when I go for runs but when I cycle my IT band on the left side flares up pretty quickly. Must be the bike setup or I’m incompatible with cycling now. It’s a mission to find out. Going to get a bike fitting soon.

[@livenhfree]

Ugh. This looks worse than trying to dial in my golf swing! I already know my right foot is shorter than my left by about 1/2 size (US). Pretty sure the right leg is also shorter than the left, but no idea whether it's the femoral or tibial. How the heck do I determine that? Love your videos.

[@starlitshadows]

Question for Neill. I have larger right foot similar to the gentleman in the video. I've used Neill's previous vids and feel pretty good in my setup but I'm getting right achilles ache usually on flats when primarily when I'm pushing Tempo. I have my cleats staggered. Is this usually cleat setback, seat height or fore/aft issue? I don't hear this issue talked about much

[@stephenroberts1369]

If I had the cash i would would fly across from wa for a fitting. So interesting, solves every challenge by the look of it

[@stuartpage5148]

"Your right glute is going mental" 😂

[@InnocenceVVX]

Props to the cameraman

[@kevindean9613]

I have a very similar problem , except I do bike packing with flat pedals ,at my bike fit They suggested have a shorter crank on my longer leg ,what do you think of that idea ?

[@petedannatt]

Seems crazy not to cover day / nightime running lights. I always assumed a high intensity flashing light would attract a drivers attention, but what does the research say?

[@RonBalone]

Oh seat height is showing up on video! Hips are rocking like he's at an ACDC concert.

[@rasimemini8331]

How can I book a appointment with you

[@andrewg2586]

Any follow up on this fit?

[@fpgamemearray]

man i wish i had a Neill here. it's terrible being unable to train seriously because you're in pain most of the time

[@Danielkuota1]

Once I did a bike fit with my bmc Timemachine. The fitter did exactly what you did to loose the seat post. He also recommended me to use that same technique to ease the seatube. After moths I discovered that that technique broke the carbon layup. I ended purchasing a new one -200£. I would recommend you when you need to release the seatube. Just rocking back and forth and eventually it releases. Like this you are doing damage to yours clients bikes.

[@angeloviray8019]

WOW..same problem on my foot

[@Abnsdllnnlosnfd]

Pardon my French: But fuck me! This is some quality stuff!

[@TheFloridaBikeVlogger]

man I got to get a fit oneday

[@christopherrichards387]

Be interesting to know what the actual seat height was?

[@myPPPLab]

how long did the session take?

[@Gledii]

With all this work it simply make sense the money paid for a proper bike fit

[@ShadowzKiller]

Can Neill do a lottery system, where one person a year wins a bike fit? Honestly, it would be worth more than an actual lottery!

[@daytch9485]

Have you ever had or asked , and maybe next time note if they've ever had an injury during their growing stage resulting in leg length, etc . Just curious