Fire Hardened White Wood Self Bows - my BEST hickory SELF BOW yet!

I got the chance to spend a day with Keith Shannon and Thad Beckum looking at some of Keith's fire hardened white wood selfbows. I took two hickory self bows up there with me to let the guys look them over and walk me through the fire hardening process. We fire hardened a 60" hickory paddle bow and re cooked the 64" flatbow that I made in a previous "bow making for beginners" video a few weeks ago. The flat bow turned out to my best hickory self bow yet. I don't have a chronograph but would be willing to bet it's shooting a 10 grain per pound arrow well at nearly 180 fps. For a primitive bow, that's very very fast!
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[@BowtellBows]

Me sitting on the edge of my seat watching as Clay takes the second bow to full draw and the bow didn't explode, then hearing him release a sigh of relief. I don't know why but I feel that every time I get a bow to full draw for the first time. Such a terrifying yet great feeling! Thanks for the in depth video Clay!

[@dragonsage6909]

Breaking a bow always sucks.. ..but when you finally get a good one that you like and it shoots great.. it's so worth all the effort. I am close to finishing a 64" maple bow, 2nd attempt.. Thanks for all you've shown me about bow making! Much appreciated! :)

[@christianbowyer7812]

Thank you Clay for this very informative video. Didn’t expect you to visit Keith and Thad so soon. You’re collecting and sharing compressed bow building knowledge from three experienced bowyers! Great thing!

[@Silentbet1of]

I made a sweat gum stave I been drying but I broke it in the process of making it so I went back to dogwood, I made three different bows from that…I have a heavy war bow I can’t pull it to full draw I have a daily shooter I can pull but after two hours i get tired this man is amazing ! All the white woods I have he made into bows yes sir your the goat!

[@williamsdesigning1949]

"You'll never know where the dropoff point is unless you go over it a couple times" - ain't that the damn truth.

[@2greeksandacamera]

This sharing is really “getting deep into” bow building Clay, like you always do so incredibly well.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks much

[@beesmongeese2978]

It's great to see you guys making a collaboration.

[@hunternelson1679]

Thanks you so much for meeting with them and showing alternative bow woods!

[@seagray5727]

This is pure gold, gentlemen! Thank you!

[@nearlynativenursery8638]

Great video brother Clay. Jim Rodgers

[@brianbaldwin3700]

That was awesome man! I’m in the process of making my first bow due to the information and inspiration from your work. Thanks for sharing for sure.

[@MaineSnowman5509]

I picked up a Creek Walker longbow quiver last fall. Never thought I'd see the day I'd spend that kind of money on a quiver, but MAN am I happy I did. Easy to attach to my longbow. Very secure. I was just as pleased by the fact it didnt set the balance off of my longbow hardly at all. The quiver is light and it served me extremely well during this year's PA deer hunt. As an added bonus, I was able to add pine/hemlock/fir boughs to my bow to break up my image even more by tucking the boughs into the rubber strapping that holds the quiver to the bow.

[@dennisdill621]

I've got a 7 inch hickory tagged and fire hardening video . Hope to get started before spring so I'll be watching your progress. Thanks for sharing, I feel like I've learned so much from your videos

[@perryfrazeoutdoors8019]

Great video Clay. Before I took your bow class, my first few bows were white wood bows. Now you’ve got me wanting to experiment with them again.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Go for it

[@a.wilson1979]

Wow, Bekum ! I love the work of this guy !

[@jrempp7729]

Really enjoy your videos Clay as you never come across as a know it all! We are always learning from each and every bow that we make! Remember that each piece of wood will be different which is one reason I never tire from the process of bow building! Thank you for your contribution to our craft!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Jim, and very true.

[@mikeseeley1042]

Jim's bows are works of art!

[@cornwallets5385]

That break about gave me a heart attack. Phew. Ive been having fun experimenting with fire hardening lately, with great results on red oak. Nice vid

[@krek17]

love to see these bows, how you make them, just gives me tips in where I am heading, going good so far. Thx for the share Clay, hi from Chile!!!

[@donaldbailey8483]

I like what you are learning and showing the world. It gives inspiration to a lot of people. I would want a something on the wall as I check tiller. And film it to watch it in slow motion to compare limbs. ✌

[@alexhamon9261]

Fire hardened hickory mollegabet would be an interesting flat limbed project, very efficient design if going for performance.

[@clayhayeshunter]

That’s on the to do list

[@lisamcqueen8509]

Good stuff, Clay! Like to see a sharpening vid with a rock, like you did on Alone. Choosing the rock and such. Thanks for sharing, Steve

[@danielbarnes6873]

The best man to watch hands down

[@ropelie]

Hands down BEST self bow videos out there. From a stand up guy also. Keep the content coming! I have dozens of staves, dried and ready, can't wait to make shavings!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Nick

[@ronniemurphy2124]

We are learning right along with you! Thanks!

[@mikeparrish8897]

Good stuff Clay! Once again thank you for the knowledge!

[@chattahoocheeoutdoorsman4865]

Great video Clay! Looking forward to the next one!

[@kevinroberts9580]

When that bow snapped, I had a tear in the corner of my eye😢 none of these bows would work for my 32" draw, but I love watching your work

[@richardbaumfalk7301]

Make your bow longer.

[@waltersullivan7335]

I would say that drying it over fire can save a stave if you already know if it has bugs in it! But yeah I been watching Beckem outdoors ! I am stoaked about fire hardening bows !

[@TheRedhawke]

Great video, can’t wait to see how this idea progresses.

[@yeraycatalangaspar195]

Relly loving this fire hardened run.

[@stevedriscoll2539]

Fascinating video. Man, I felt a shock when that first bow broke. That more recent bow is about as close to perfection in performance (speed), shootabiliy, and pushing the limit of even hickory. Sweet gum...very interesting!

[@tommybarrios3307]

Great information, looking forward to seeing more on white wood bows and fire hardening for better performance. I'm working on a 65 inch, ash flat bow, and the process seems to continue with different ideas of making it better. Thanks again for sharing.

[@mikeseeley1042]

Love to hear how your Ash bow came out. Just hardened my first Ash staves. Never worked with it before, and I hear it's a bit finicky.

[@tommybarrios3307]

@@mikeseeley1042 Hey Mike, Bow came out good. I learned a lot in the process. I did over shoot my tiller and ended up with a 35 lb. draw weight. A few too many scrapes is all it took. Just started working with a hickory stave. They say hickory is a little more forgiving. I could use a little forgiveness..lol Have a good one and good luck on you bow.

[@mikeseeley1042]

@@tommybarrios3307 thanks! I'll approach tillering with caution 😊. Best wishes on your Hickory build!

[@smileyionut4604]

Had the bow set up at a pro shop. It performed just fine kzbin.infoUgkxQEKUoxLWwayEDZR0NKB-5limn4MBU-2L . And I would say this is a good starting now that I could pass down to my son when he is older.But the package was missing the release and a nock was missing from one arrow.Dealing with customer support was terrible. They suggested I buy a new release rather than correct their own quality control issue because it’s to expensive for the. to ship it out from China.Update: manufacturer got back to me and resolved the issue. I retract the above statement.

[@efrainbarron1626]

Nice to see you guys

[@TheTribeOfBenjamin]

Great vid! Thanks for sharing this!

[@kylefrye6265]

Awesome work, I am going to find me a good chunk of hickory and build a bow this late winter and have it ready to fire harden by spring and start shooting it next to my Osage take down bow and see which bow I will hunt with this fall! Thanks for sharing!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Good luck Kyle

[@herbertkuttner9228]

Great video clay This process that Keith has rediscovered will change self bow making and move it up in performance and make self bows very more popular and be a lot less costly to make as in the modern bows that are being made today I think a lot more people will hopefully get interested in self bow archery and hunting and making I myself are trying to see if I can apply this technique in making the English long bow shape that has a 5 to 8 ratio in the shaping of the belly that has a D shape not flat as in flat bows So far it seams to be working for me Keith knows of my project , I have been using his FH pre-cut stays I also noticed ,and Keith knows this also that working FH Hickory is not easy , the wood becomes very hard to cut with things like draw knifes Spock shaves or hand planes The only thing that work well for me are wood rasps, files,cabinet scrapers, and various abrasive sand paper. Thanks for making your video I think I know Keith is happy that people are starting to use his rediscovery , he is one great guy Sincerely Herb kuttner Gainsville Florida

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks Herb

[@johnsharkey9143]

Thad doing some knapping in the background…love this!!

[@maxcorder2211]

I was hunting on a ranch in eastern Montana several years ago. I arrived the day before and went to the house to check on where I should hunt the next morning. The wife invited me in for lunch and said her husband would be home soon. There was another younger couple there also. The fellow told a story about one of the dangers of bow hunting. A year prior he was practicing with a compound bow and fiberglass arrows. On release, the arrow blew up and the shards of the fiberglass went into his forearm. Took him a long time to recover and the day I met him was his first hunt since the accident.

[@jamieelder7438]

The 3 kings of Bow building

[@OsborneExploration]

You know this gentleman has made a few bows when his fire poker is a broken bow. Lol. Great video and FULL of valuable knowledge. Thanks for sharing this. 👍👍

[@lunkydog]

I like the tree step handles on his bow form. At first, I thought what heck is that, thinking it was some sort of clamping handle, then I realized what they were.

[@christianschmidt6463]

Another very inspiring Video. Thx

[@timbuffington5717]

I love these videos man... Really cool. I built an atlatl once and enjoyed it. I guess it's on to the bow next.

[@VSci_]

I'm about to do a fire-hardened oak bow myself. Nice work Clay 👍

[@ylleba]

I'm really considering fire treating the rowan stave I got. This has been a very interesting watch.

[@whistlingbadger]

Wow, 176fps with a simple self bow is smoking! And speaking of smoking, I love that he's using a broken bow as a fire stick to move the coals around. Nothing wasted! ha ha ha I love working with hickory, but I can't wait to try this on a chokecherry stave this spring...

[@missionman4539]

Love hickory!! I’ll take the follow - I don’t mind it .

[@jaredadams3774]

Excellent video Clay! I learned how to make a self bow from your video series. It took me two times to get it right and I ended up with a nice shooting 64” sinew backed hickory bow. I even added antler knocks and it shoots great. I never fire hardened mine, the next one I do I’m going to try it for sure. I wonder after a fire hardened process if backing the bow will help retain back set and more performance. Thanks for the videos!

[@clayhayeshunter]

When done right, sinew will always help hold backset in a bow.

[@MiscMitz]

Very cool process

[@fettmaneiii4439]

Hi Clay! In the tillering process i thought of a way to see of your limbs are pulling the same. Mark the center of your string with some visible tape. draw a centerline vertical on the backdrop of your tillering jig and match up the mark on your string with the line on the backdrop. When you pull it, if the tape mark deviates to the left of the line, that means the left limb is stronger. If it deviates to the right of the centerline, the right limb is stronger.

[@dillardwinters4882]

I jumped out of my skin at the pop!

[@mariopena5725]

Nice brother tanks for the video

[@andyjame28]

Very useful and efficient

[@TightwadTodd]

Outstanding Video.

[@johngschwend]

Clay, did you mention that Keith and the guys have a DVD video on fire hardening? It's pretty good, and I like supporting them for their efforts. I also appreciate what you do, and I also purchased your DVD set.

[@clayhayeshunter]

I’ve mentioned it before

[@matthewcornelison4786]

Great stuff.

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

Thats shooting pretty daaaang fast. Would be awesome to try and own such a bow 😁

[@londonforge]

Sweet! So quiet!!

[@mikeseeley1042]

Amazing! I've got 4 white wood bows in the works, and would love to try this. Tough time of year though, single digits and snow in the northeast. :^/

[@mikeseeley1042]

Several bows later...I've broken a few (bad Hickory) and had great success with Hop Hornbeam! First two Ash staves came off the pit yesterday. Looking forward to getting them to shooters, Lord willing. Thank you Keith, Thad and Clay!

[@warofwrath]

Oooh love in WV and was trying to think about what woods would work besides the obvious hickory, bet ironwood/hornbean would be great.

[@mikelovesnifer]

Whoa I watched this twice and jumped both times at 15:31 lol 🤣😂🤣 also, super nice bow!!!

[@primalcode3057]

Well done

[@angelpacheco6132]

Mostro!!... Tremendo aprendizaje...la idea es probar a ver qué mejora el rendimiento..👍 good. Acá es difíci conseguir tanta madera para probar.

[@deweywesley6262]

Awesome content Clay. I have Mtn. Ash, Blk Locust, JP and in some areas Manzanita available in SE Az that I'd love to try.

[@stevedriscoll2539]

I had a buddy that builds awesome bows, and he built a real zippy and comfortable shooting black locust bow...probably my favorite self bow, i ever shot.

[@amedehoneycutt3353]

Clay, Love the videos. I have built quite a few white wood bows and have done some mild heat treating. When going this aggressive in the treating how dry does the wood get? Moisture content? Here where I live the wood is already down to 5% a lot of times and I have to "steam it up" to get it to 11-12 then let it dry a bit and then seal at 8 or 9. Just wondering what those bellies dry to and stand up to the strain.

[@MustObeyTheRules]

I’d like to see a video just explaining what makes Osage such an amazing bow wood. I mean I think I know what makes it so good but would like to hear your opinions on it but also what makes it objectively better than other woods and with no special treatment.

[@clayhayeshunter]

That’s a good topic.

[@chrisbacarella839]

Ready to see them boy's go after some hogs been watching since before alone and just knew you was going to win it love the videos bud

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@richardbaumfalk7301]

Thanks Clay. Very interesting I should try a Birch tree as that is the only hard wood in this part of Alaska.

[@stevedriscoll2539]

I built a birch board bow, and it had no handshock but it took a lot of set, i think my tiller was off a bit. I would think you could fire harden a birch bow with good success...maybe not as aggressive though.

[@HedgeapleJoe]

Cool stuff

[@DreamcraftBows]

Good vid Clay! Thank you!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thanks

[@johnmoyer5515]

I have a an old flatbow when my parents moved into new house i found it in the barn in 1969. So i guess i have a pattern to work from. I have a sawmill & just cut a few hundred bf of hickory at 1 3/8" thickness

[@j.shorter4716]

Does fire hardening take away the forgiving characteristic that hickory is known for and essentially give it the same characteristics as a better bow wood including less tolerance to error? Maybe that’s why the hole caused it to break or maybe it would’ve anyways.

[@erikzorger3311]

I made a 65lb @ 30" self bow out of privet that I am amazed with. Privet is also a shrub plant that grows everywhere.

[@justanotherfencer]

Interesting, I'm from New Zealand and we have heaps of privet here, I haven't even thought to try make a bow out of it.

[@johnibbertson2960]

clay im in rotherham south yorkshire england and love your bow making very clever,we cannot get wood as easily here though and have to pay a small fortune for 4ft pieces, i managed to make a pine bow but it hinged lol.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Keep trying, you’ll get it.

[@johnswoodgadgets9819]

I make primitive crossbows. Always made the prods from dogwood. It is very forgiving, and tough as nails. It fire hardens well, and I have always fire hardened them. Set is not that much of an issue with a crossbow, because the string is braced just tight enough to stay on. As a matter of fact, a little set is good for a crossbow for a variety of reasons. You only actually tension it when you cock the bow. Point being, yes Virginia, fire hardening is the Santa Claus of bow making here in the Southern Appalachians, and has been for some time. It also works well for handles and other such things you use tooled hardwood for. Work it green, while you can still cut it with a minimum of cussing, and then harden it before the final touches. Just like a chunk of steel.

[@chrisbrassfield2369]

Good video🤠

[@ArniesTech]

That bow snapping physically hurt my heart. 😮😢

[@jessicamyronwagers4316]

I’m from eastern Kentucky my dad taught me to use locust that is the toughest wood there is it is extremely hard to work with but it is brittle too

[@thefredkalis]

Thank you. I'm in France , I don't have access to hickory but I'm working with ash tree.

[@clayhayeshunter]

That will work

[@christianbowyer7812]

Hi Fred, sure ash will be improved a lot by fire hardening. If you can’t get hickory staves or boards, you sure can get long ax-handles ~80-90cm. Make sure the grain runs straight. Saw them in halves and splice them together in the grip after fire hardening on a reflex form. Then you can back it with bamboo, sinew or just rawhide for safety. That’s how I did it successfully.

[@douglaswm]

This is a very interesting video, love your hunting content too! I wish you would wear safety glasses though.

[@JOHNWRoush]

Would you make another hickory bow and after fire hardening and back with sinew or rawhide? I would enjoy seeing that. I'm a beginner at this.

[@MrMiguella]

I wish I could send you a black wattle stave, it's a little hard to work but it makes a damn good bow

[@geobuddydarden2853]

Excellent video, You and Keith answered a lot of my questions. Do you think it is best to start with a green stave or one which has dried over time to approximately 8 percent moisture? The heat drying process looks easy enough, but I haven't tried it.

[@clayhayeshunter]

With hickory, I don’t think it matters

[@mrazana6408]

Hi Clay, that bow bends a little too much in the inner limbs; that is why it doesn't hold more reflex. if you look at it, most of your set is happening in the inner half of the limbs. if you got the mid to outer limbs bending a wee bit more, that bow would have kept more of the reflex.

[@DBuzzardlips]

When you can, please make a video of making the form for fire hardening bow process ... dimensions and different shapes ... an all in one form? Thanks

[@the.reel.mccoy.]

Howdy Clay, I was wondering if you were to take a green bow wood, tiller it, get the form of a bow, and clamp the bow to a jig while the wood dries, would it have a similiar form hold as fire hardening? Also, if one were to take a portion of wood from a curved tree, and use the natural curve of the tree to create the bend of the bow would this work for increased backset? I'd assume so, although I feel as though these woods would be perfect candidates for fire hardening as well. I have been watching you videos for many years now and appreciate you for spreading your knowledge. I have yet to make a bow, as I have yet to harvest a deer with my late grandpa's recurve. Eventually I will, and then I will build my own following along with your videos. Thanks Clay, McCoy

[@joeharkness1264]

Clay, do you have any videos with info on how to layout a rest/shelf. I'm in the process of making a hickory self bow now. Thank you for all your info. God bless

[@AnonYmous-ii4tc]

Yes he does! Bow Building Part II… layout kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4nce2Rqrsp4pKs Enjoy!

[@andrewholder4259]

Nice

[@williamlake6151]

Happen to me with those lil grabbers I actually broke mine in the handle and I put it back together with a couple pieces of metal. Lost a lot of performance but that lil walnut bow just makes it for poundage minimum.

[@FizzyMcSnap]

Inspiring as always Clay. Thank you. I don't know if you have any experience with European Ash but im planning on making a bow out of it soon. Do you think fire hardening could work on Ash too?

[@clayhayeshunter]

I think so

[@FT4Freedom]

I remember the age old American tradition of the ultralight hickory rocking chair. How light can you get it before it breaks. Let's go hunting already.

[@ondrejmedek3746]

nice gj...

[@singlestringstruggler1988]

Have you been doing anymore white wood bows? I just cut a good 8” 10’ long hickory yesterday.

[@brianderose5809]

Good morning Clay I was wondering if you have a video on making a shave horse

[@stephenballard3759]

Clay, don't hate on crown with tension strong white woods. Some of the fastest, best bows I have.made were from 4" elm, ash, or white mulberry saplings that dried into like 8-10" of reflex, which is way too much, right? During the heat treating process I took out most of that, so I was heat-treating AND compacting the belly under the heat at the same time. Getting them down to 2" reflex, cooked in good, made for very nice shooters. The crowned back lightens the limb just like trapping a limb does, and you have plenty enough tension strength to keep the back intact. You can still get a 2" wide limb,easily, and I think hickory would be the same. BUT! Heat treating at least some woods seems to make powder post beetles and such LOVE them even more. I noticed if ai n have treated staves, but don't get to them, rhe bugs will ignore other staves sitting right there and eat the toasted ones first.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Interesting, yeah, 90% of the bows I’ve built have been from Osage so I’m still learning about what hickory and the other white woods can handle.

[@stephenballard3759]

@@clayhayeshunter They can handle plenty, but they sure aren't osage orange! Although, for twenty years I have been making them wider and longer to compensate for the lower mass and elasticitc, ala Tim Baker's and Paul Comstock's advice, and I will say right now I am almost SHOCKED at the success you are having on such SHORT hickory (and elm) with such high amounts of reflex. I love a 2" wide elm flatbow about 68-70 " long with skonny, stiff tips in the outer limbs, heat treated to 2" reflex, expecting it to keep a fat inch. 64" always seemed short to me for a 28-29" draw. But now II'm watching and learning.

[@lobopropredatorcontrol]

Sure enjoy this, all new to me

[@andyOsalek]

love your videos. how do you find ash compared to chickory? would you recommend similar treatment for it? where i live chickory is rare and osage is unheard of. i have a good supply of nice looking ash though. cheers

[@AnonYmous-ii4tc]

Nice job Clay. Thanks for sharing some of your experience with Thad and Keith. You mention crown and getting a larger stave so you can make it flatter. You aren’t chasing a ring on Hickory, are you? Is it just because of the balance between width and thickness or what? Thanks again.

[@clayhayeshunter]

Hi crown concentrates the tension stress in a narrow band along the back. A flat back distributes that stress over a wider area.

[@RedmanOutdoors366]

Way heavier means less moisture witch means tilling should be repeated until it's around the pressure you want heating things changed the molecular structure of the grain

[@danebender6166]

Man that bow looks fast! This fire hardening technique seems to have alot of people pretty excited including me, at this moment im tillering an elm bow i startred over a year ago, perfect candidate for fire hardening lol. So whens the ideal time to fire harden , after floor tillering? I picked up that while you certainly can fire harden after tillering, but if you still have wood to remove there's more of a margin for error but you certainly wouldn't want to have to much wood either?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Keith does it before floor tillering