Firefighters under investigation for not entering facility

[@fire-2022]

After 6 long months, I was just offered a firefighting position at a career department in my hometown. I was just wanting to say thanks. Your videos have been extremely beneficial for me. I start fire academy in two weeks, and I'm super pumped about it!

[@TourGuide223]

I put in my app a few days ago. good luck

[@brianwilson8119]

I read an article about this incident, when it first happened, that went into a lot more detail than this news report. There was an obvious misunderstanding between the nursing home and the EMS organization. I took this story back to my department and the result was a meeting with our dispatchers, medical director, nursing home directors, and retirement communities so that we ALL were on the same page and everyone knew and understood the procedures for a response like this during the pandemic. Communication and coordination is a must!!

[@BrodeyDoverosx]

Good job. You likely saved lives. Even more so is that your approach didn’t result in bureaucratic “We’ll get to that”, but they actually synced up. Excellent.

[@hollyw7410]

I am a nurse in a nursing home. I had a resident fall hit her head and needed stitches we called for EMS to transport her, ems arrived and one of the paramedics told her. "Well, ma'am you have a DNR bracelet on, what do you think the hospital is going to do with you?" Child my head turned so quick, I advised that medic that bracelet or no bracelet she has the RIGHT to be seen and cared for. I was pissed!!

[@mdunbar008]

Two things to note: 1) The crew stated they were prevented from entering by STATE LAW. Not sure what's up with that. 2) Where the fuck was the AED the facility is REQUIRED to have? I saw NO pads on that guys chest, the nursing staff was NOT providing the proper care for the patient.

[@CCWSig]

If the patient is in full arrest a AED isn't going to do anything.

[@mdunbar008]

@@CCWSig Unless you hook the patient up to some type of device that can analyze their heart rhythm you won't know if they are in full arrest or not. If only there was some commonly available device that could do such a thing. Oh yeah, the AED would have done that.

[@guyfishing820]

@@mdunbar008 idk what yall talking about?.... a person is in cardiac arrest if they don't have a pulse. You don't need a monitor to tell you that. An aed does not read rythms(a monitor does that), but it does differentiate between shockable and not shockable rythms. !!! There's a difference !!!

[@jamesevans938]

@@guyfishing820 just because someone can’t feel a pulse doesn’t mean that is no pulse it could be really faint that’s why you should always hook someone up to a AED if you can’t feel their pulse just in case there is indeed a pulse plus a good one will tell you stop CPR so it can analyse the rhythm incase you have brought the patient back with a rhythm that is shockable once again another reason why you should hook them up to a AED even if you can’t feel a pulse and unless you happen to have a monitor with you you don’t know is the patient is shockable or not just because you can’t feel pulse doesn’t mean the patient is I shockable

[@jreese46]

Do they ever?

[@TheOutlawMan]

I used to transport patients from a facility that wouldn't let past the lobby without filling out a questionnaire and taking our temps.

[@paulstark6933]

I have been firefighting and EMS for 22 years. I have learned error on doing something than nothing at all.

[@coltonbandelin7956]

Please pray for the BCFD as four fire fighters where trapped this morning. Pray for their families.

[@matthewjones1119]

My partner and I were refused entry into a nursing facility due to having been in contact with a Covid pt within 48 hours. It’s a very confusing time to be working the bus. It would be great if they came out with SOP/SOG per state or per county that would help us with clarification on Covid.

[@TheModernSnipez]

That's hilarious because you wouldn't be infectious until outside that window anyway if you caught it

[@Milliminute]

@@TheModernSnipez Its even more hilarious when EMTs and Paramedics are ALWAYS in contact with covid patients, and then these facilities say you cant come in..it's like..you guys called us..and we work with covid patients every day..lol.

[@TheModernSnipez]

@@Milliminute Hey I'll always take a cancel

[@Drew-v2f]

Always present yourself like CNN would be on the doorstep just to go in. Deal with the stress and play the game. Ask for help if you get confused.

[@dracoslayer16]

It's tragic but it also makes sense. At the start of the pandemic, one person who had "potentially" been exposed went into my grandmother's retirement home. Just one person that skipped the multitude of checks that were taking place. Couple days later and the whole facility lost over 30% of the people living there. It's easy for people to say "just go in there and help" but fail to realize how insanely dangerous that simple action can be.

[@deckgun31]

“The media does not always report all of the facts.” This is true more often than not. This is one of many true statements mentioned in this video. Great job, as usual. A fair, balanced review of this story. Many good reasons why I’ve subbed to you channel.

[@Sercer25]

The media does not always report the truth. In fact, if it's against the status quo, they won't even have a discussion on it.

[@james8296]

Nursing home staff continuously demonstrate how absolutely incompetent they are. I cannot stress how many times I've heard "I just got back from vacation, I don't know this patient" in response to when I ask for a report. As far as I'm concerned as a Paramedic of 5 years, the only competent nurses are ER nurses

[@larrylegend8487]

You forgot “ I just started my shift “

[@MClancer18]

I can’t tell you how many times I hear these statements when trying to get a report 😂

[@catsabotage3362]

Odd statement to make on a video showing the EMS completely at fault.

[@alexmatthews7706]

In their defense though most of them are severely underpaid and very overworked and they have to deal with shitty patients and management 24/7 while most likely marking 13-15 an hour. You get what you pay for

[@andrewevans7229]

you say this in a video with the only incompetence coming from the fire department…. equating not knowing a patient with refusing to do the point of your position with the city…. pathetic

[@EMJE272]

Absolutely disgraceful

[@BIGTAYLORNI]

If the mayor doesn't know what's going on.. Maybe the paramedics are just as confused.

[@andrewevans7229]

the mayor is confused as to what the paramedics are trying to claim seeing as no such policy has ever surfaced…its clear why those FF are a disgrace

[@MeMe-zb5lf]

We had a nursing facility in our city that cared for mentally and physically disabled patients. Our city department runs a rescue unit to assist the local county ambulance agency. It was always a constant fight on whether the facility staff would allow us in the building to assist with patient care while awaiting the ambulance's arrival. Our county ambulance units could be as far as 15 mins away depending on call volume for their units in the county. Our department has paramedics, EMT's, and First Responders, but our level of care running calls in our city is First Responder based on our local protocols due to us not running an ambulance service out of our station. The staff at the care center would use their "higher level" of care card and ask the dispatch not to send our FD, even after the ambulance service requested us respond. It is shame that instances like this happen, but protocols of each entity, always seem to hamper everyone's response, or level of care.

[@20truck]

I noticed on the wall of the nursing home it says skilled Care facility so which means they take care of people that may be require IV medications or on ventilators things that nature so this facility treats people that are just under the acute care level at a hospital, so I don't understand why their bed doesn't have wheels or a stretcher in the facility to get people to the front door so they could safely move a patient. I think if the firefighters had a mandate not to go into this type of facility they have to follow what that mandate says whether it's right or wrong or makes people angry or not but also if the nursing home knew about this mandate they should have had the proper preparation to move a patient to the front door in case an emergency happened.

[@wvhappykatz]

Sometimes what the dispatcher states is completely different from what is on the CAD system. Always be prepared for everything! Works for me. As for first responders, I have never met one that wasn't full of compassion and an overwhelming desire to help others. Do not judge unless you were there.

[@TONeal]

Former LPN now career firefighter/paramedic... glad this video was covered and done well. Just another thing to note, many Skilled nursing facilities are staffed with people who have; 1.) zero cardiology knowledge or diagnostic ability 2.) the lack of the ability to assess bloodwork quickly 3.) the lack of any IV drug intervention unless pre prescribed (no standing protocol) That said they still have to say that someones loved one is totally okay... this is why it seems like they send people out for "nothing" at times. Also, the E.R.'s assessment rarely makes it back to the nursing home staff so it remains a guessing game...

[@banderse77]

I applaud the nursing home staff and try to be extra helpful when interacting. I have noticed the nursing home staff dwindling due to workload and lack of appreciation.

[@michaelborrello9944]

As always excellent work. You nailed every issue. This is a tough case and I pray they don't take it out on the EMS crew for the confusion during the pandemic. I am sure many states have issues just like this. For COVID when to go in, when to stay out, when to or should intubation be done, was the facility KNOWN to have COVID cases? There are so many questions that just don't get answered. The only thing I see during the news broadcast is they pass by the memo from the fire department quickly but stop on the "law" of the state. It seems to me like the media is just looking to start a fight between administrators. My personal feeling is this entire incident is complete confusion on what the safe thing is to do during a Pandemic

[@davep6977]

the staff was already doing CRP and the thing that I caught me was patient was 56. Why at that age was he in a acute care facility ?

[@HeroesNextDoor]

@@davep6977 there are so many reasons why someone at 56 would be in a facility like this. We see it all the time. Obviously he had Comorbidity issues which was most likely why he was there. But he could have been there short term after some type of surgery too. We will never know

[@andrewevans7229]

don’t take it out on the ems crew? they made up a law because they were afraid of a virus with less than.1% ifr…. they deserve blame and hopefully are not working in this capacity anymore

[@99fruitbat94]

I am a health care assistant in a nursing home in the UK . There is always a qualified nurse on duty , that's the law . Only had a few occasions over the last 43 years of doing this job when paramedics have been awkward . Apart from those rare incidents paramedics , police ,fire service have always been incredibly helpful .

[@ryanrodriguez8918]

Where I am at in California, we call them SNiF's (skilled nursing facilities). Dependent on the time of day the call comes in, about 75% of the time, there is no medical staff on site to make that first patient contact, but even when there is, that is where, as you said the disconnent between us first responders and nursing home staff occur. I wont get into details of what the disconnect is, but its along the lines of the reactiveness of them if you know what I mean. Like, we see someone not breathing, our natural instinct, especially being FF's is to start rendering aid, whether its CPR, bagging them, etc, and not just sitting back watching the patient slip further and further away from life, while they wait for us to show up...

[@Milliminute]

I think they're forced to not attempt to provide aid, and instead call 911 by their supervisors; because of liability issues (getting sued by the family or something). I remember one of these facilities I'd go to frequently, the staff would call 911 any time one of the residents fell, even from off of a chair onto a carpeted floor; and they leave them on the floor and don't let them get up until we get there to clear spinal precautions and all that. I asked them why and they said their supervisor doesn't allow them to do anything but call 911.

[@ryanrodriguez8918]

@@Milliminute then why require a CNA to have CPR/AED? Unless its to make it look good on paper???

[@Milliminute]

@@ryanrodriguez8918 I think thats exactly what it is. To make people feel safe and confident to keep their family members there; then to offset liability to the fire department and 911 Emergency Services when something dos happen.

[@JPINFV]

@@ryanrodriguez8918 In part because there's a huge difference between getting a merit badge course card and actually running a code. They're out of their element when it comes to an emergency. That's. Not. Their. Job. So you know what they do? They call the people who are supposed to be experts at out of hospital emergencies. I deal with something similar when a code blue or rapid response is called on the floor of the hospital. I'm happy as long as CPR is in progress. Why? Because as a critical care doctor, I'm used to crashing, critically ill patients. Those are my forte. However just because I'm good at it and it's my job to be good at it doesn't mean that everyone in the hospital or healthcare has to be good at it or needs to be managing crashing patients constantly.

[@ryanrodriguez8918]

@@JPINFV I get that, and that is the disconnect between us two...laziness and lack of confidence in your skill set. Its really annoying. Now I'm not what type of policies or procedures these places have in place when it comes to codes or whatever....

[@BillBlast7372]

***ANOTHER OUTSTANDING VID THAT POINTS OUT EVERY PART/ANGLE OF THE SITUATION, THX MAN & STAY SAFE BRO!!!!***

[@ptaylor4923]

"... sometimes the news doesn't have all the facts right away... " 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Yeah, and they don't give a damn. One of the reasons we h Ave a president with onset dementia.

[@erdropoff]

I work in Cali. And My personal opinion is, these "medics" were negligent. To not enter when dispatched to a cardiac arrest and use a weak excuse as " some law" Not acceptable. We have a duty to act and Im sorry if you feel this is an appropriate way to handle a call, it's time to find a new profession. Again just my opinion

[@rampageof78]

exactly...i think the answer to all questions were in his beginning statements which he has great vids btw! toward the beginning he talked about the long standing rivarly between fire and nursing homes...watching the vid by itself its clear they go to this facility all the time and have major problems..and there beef with the facility got in the way of patient care!

[@lindanwfirefighter4973]

If they are not allowed then they are not allowed. Why was the nursing home not aware this was the case? Why not put the man on a sheet and drag him to the door? He could have been there by the time the ambulance arrived? Where was their AED?

[@myke5696]

@@lindanwfirefighter4973 i very much doubt there was a state law saying firefighters or EMS cannot enter nursing homes. Thats just an excuse or misunderstanding on someones part

[@lindanwfirefighter4973]

@@myke5696 100% of govt cover mandates and their BS Covid information is lies. I have doubt it is true. Govt had an agenda and nothing was based on any real science.

[@jasonpayton3488]

Really been enjoying the videos, there’s a lot of useful information in these. I was wondering if you are going to continue the KZbin lives? Those were very helpful

[@michaelborrello9944]

If you like the Lives type format, Heroes Next Door will be starting their series this Friday. You are welcome to join, but promise to continue to watch this channel just as much

[@johnellard2191]

Very, very well done. Great research and balanced. Nail right on the head.

[@BillBlast7372]

5:01 *THIS SHOWS THE INCORRECT INFO PUT OUT BY THE NEWS...."THE BED HAS NO WHEELS, SO THEY CANT MOVE HIM"....BUT HE'S IN A HOSP BED BEING PUSHED OUT, NOT CARRIED!!!

[@tnzayatz6579]

Very even-handed presentation. It seems to me that there was/is a lack of pre-incident communication between Emergency Services and long term care facilities. This is what happens when nobody talks, the guy on the street is left to swing with little guidance.

[@erichhitchcock3368]

The most amazing thing about this video is that it was raining.

[@jasonbernal9348]

So... There was a memo telling them they needed the nursing home staff to bring the patient to the doors. Got it. Following protocol, because the city will throw them under the bus for not doing so. Now... Is there a newer memo documenting a referral of that protocol? If not, then I absolutely DO NOT have a problem with what they did. They were simply following the protocols set forth by their agency.

[@MrJobx]

Truly unfortunate, just following protocols and still get canned. Unlucky scenario, most people not in public safety deem this to be the fire parademics fault

[@andrewevans7229]

there were no protocols stating that… the policy mentioned dispatch can request a patient brought to the door the fact these people were doing this for over a year…for a virus with less than.1% ifr…. pathetic and despicable

[@cut-zonevideos406]

Another great video 👍, I think that speed is very important when it comes to an elderly person, however, in the end, it comes down to everyone's safety, and the Judgement of the first responders, or whoever is in charge on the scene.

[@johnberry8180]

Safety is only part of the formula. N95, P100 or PAPR would remove any COVID concerns for the responders. What it's going to come down to is " what written policy was in place at the time of incident " and did the responders follow that policy. At COVID peak we had a facility that made a rule that no one entered unless they were wearing a surgical mask and face shield provided by the facility. Yes they told me I had to remove my P100 and use their surgical mask while treating a known COVID patient. I told her I was following our medical control mandate and she STILL said I had to take the P100 off. At that point I said bring the patient to me.

[@stevemarquez9628]

I'm retired and never had to deal with Covid but I would like to think I would have gone in. I don't know if they would have been help accountable to management if they had gone in. It seems like training was sorely lacking. I do agree with the host. I have seen some horrible care centers like he described. I don't ever recall a save on a cardiac arrest in any of those places. Some facilities really resisted DNR requests because they basically didn't want anyone dying in their facility.

[@Mugenkidd82]

As a EMT and volunteer Firefighter. This is correct. SNFs are hit or miss.. but they are definitely under trained. ESPECIALLY when it comes to falls. They literally leave the patient on the floor. Never even tried to help or ask if they need actually need help.. they just call 911.. I've been in the EMS 10+ years it's still the same..

[@donaldmorrison9940]

There’s not enough info in this video to know exactly what happened, but as a rule I would rather be in trouble for doing too much than too little. Covid completely skewed our ability to properly risk assess. Covid, which is slightly dangerous to some, dangerous to very few and not dangerous to most, led to guidance which put both the public and first responders at risk. We went months, over a year without proper training despite constantly hearing how training is for our safety (which I agree it is). Total imbalance. I know one district in Scotland that didn’t have ambulance cover due to Covid and close contact rules. Personally, if I was fatally ill I’d be totally happy to be treated with someone who had covid than not treated at all.

[@patrickkasper2776]

Is a very interesting video and really makes me think about my situation. as a volunteer firefighter in PA, once I’m dispatch to a call what is my legal obligations? This is something I need to talk to with my training Chief. This is a great topic

[@kevadams1964]

I think it is important to note for those who are not in emergency services that this patient would have most likely died regardless. The medics could have rushed in and he may well have passed anyway. Also, it is a healthcare facility. Would they not have a crash cart with all the same tools and meds kept in an ambulance? Point being the personnel inside the acute care facility should have been working the code prior to EMS arriving on scene.

[@andrewevans7229]

this does not absolve the paramedics of their negligence. they are lucky they are only being fired and not facing criminal charges

[@truck2041]

In my area it became a practice that Nursing homes staff would bring the patient down to the front lobby on a stretcher the Commercial EMS agency lent them. The Nursing homes didn't want anyone inside who did have to be and they had a long drawn out checking process of we did have to go in

[@davestark5560]

Terminate these cowards and remove their certificates. Unacceptable behavior. Sounds like the leadership of this department needs to be replaced.

[@Biffo1262]

It'a OK enacting temporary laws and asking people to follow them but you must make it clear when those temporary laws have been rescinded otherwise confusion like this is always going to happen.

[@robthetinmang1455]

I think this is a reason for regional cooperation among fire and EMS providers to develop uniform picies/practices. This is how the depts in the Phoenix AZ area operate. Additionally, the dispatchers/911 operators should inform those calling of the pice, if there is one like this in place, and try to gather more info. If the pt crashed while enroute, a new call to 911 should have been made or they should have stayed on the phone to provide updates bcdifficulty breathing is one level of call while a full code is totally different and tends to bring more resources. My mother-in-law was a nursing home nurse for 50 yes and staffing sucks!! However, she had a great relation with fire and EMS and those folks used to tell me how much they loved her bc she had her stuff together and partnered with them!! There was a huge mutual respect! Healthcare facilities and fire and EMS agencies need to partner to prepare for all eventualities. It's what it means to be all hazards. I totally agree that we let the investigation be completed. I used to work in politics, as well as ED healthcare and EMS. I've seen people excoeiatrd by the media bc they rushed to scoop the rest of the media and the top story on TV and front page in the newspapers just obliterated this guy's career. Later, it was found everything was misfounded and he was fully innocent. The retraction in the papers were buried in the classifieds and the TV corrections as the last bit of the broadcast. His political career was over. I've also seen when FFs or EMS personnel are the target for a car wreck where a fatality occurred, but the dead person was driving drunk or doing something else illegal and was at fault. However, those first responders have a stigma attached to them like the spray of a skunk! Nowadays, accusations are enough to report and the subject of those allegations, at least to the media, are guilty until proven innocent. It's why I've been working to make Congress realize that Freedom of the Press is not absolute. There should be a law requiring that if an inaccurate accusation is aired as a top story or printed on the front page, the correction/retraction must be given the same priority instead of being buried. Freedom of the Press does not give the media the right to Rush to air or print, get the story wrong, and then hide behind the Forst Amendment!!

[@caryvanarsdall3957]

Even doing good compressions and getting them on an AED isn't a guarantee that they will live

[@KP-wd3oy]

Inexcusable, and should be criminal. You have a duty to act, and an organization's best practices memo does not supercede that. Glad the cop knew better.

[@j2o3sh]

Working in a nursing home sounds like correctional services

[@Columbus1152]

It's a nursing home, why wouldn't the facility have a qualified medical professional and life saving equipment on site?

[@kenbrown2808]

regarding the accuracy of media reports: I once got asked to proofread a press release before it was issued, with the result I knew exactly what it said. when I saw it in the media, several details were incorrect, despite the fact the press release COULD have been cut and pasted into the issue. to spell it out - the media EDITED the press release and changed details, making it incorrect.

[@zosoxo3511]

I’ve been working 2 jobs since the pandemic. Been doing IFT/ 911 EMT since the start of this and every facility is different as far as staffing, training and overall competency but I have to agree the real solid employees don’t get enough credit

[@Mugenkidd82]

I've met only 2. And im close friends with one still

[@jakemartinez1354]

Kind of BS if they are getting mixed messages that falls on leadership not the individual firefighters

[@SledgeHammer43]

Proto calls don't just cancel, they have to be canceled.

[@michaelborrello9944]

I don't think this case they believed they were canceled. They were waiting by the door for the patient. They did not leave the scene, they stayed outside the "hot zone" of a Pandemic, just as if it were a hazardous material incident.

[@jelracer98]

You would have thought that the mayor would have done his research on that law before going on the air to defend his employees i think that he threw them under the bus

[@laronwoods1633]

I live in a long term care facility. We are served by the local fire dept. EMS. They do a fantastic job, so I don't understand this problem. Sounds like a lot of jealousy and a can of worms.

[@gregchaffin9392]

Greg video Mike. Great commentary and keeping an objective view.

[@ttrev007]

Why would they at any time other than a unsafe environment impede rescuers of a cardiac arrest? That memo should have never existed without exceptions for severe events.

[@perryfire1]

There is something wrong here. Every fire dept. deals with these types of facilities all of the time, whether they are nursing homes, dialysis clinics, etc. There is no way that was the first visit to that clinic and I would venture to guess they had made multiple runs to that facility already this year. But I don't know. My point is that I highly doubt there was confusion on protocols. On either end. My speculation is that there was a pissing contest occurring and the fire dept. called their bluff while somebody was in cardiac arrest. Or it was a case of malicious compliance. It certainly doesn't make the FD look good whatever the reason. It reminds me when I used to respond to the jail and prison in my old district. By the time we were shook down for weapons and ID'ed before entry and then escorted through multiple security points we had lost way too much time if the prisoner wasn't breathing upon arrival. And they would not deviate from their protocols or bring the patient to us because of security risks. It sucked for the incarcerated.

[@hollow34]

If there's an emergency we hand in our phones and get waved through. Not top security prison but on a normal visit we get the full sweep.

[@perryfire1]

@@hollow34 In all fairness the jail was a lot more lenient for entry, many times they would have the patient waiting in the sally-port, but we also had two prisons, one with maximum security prisoners. It was the maximum security facility that had all of the stringent rules. They didn't care if you were the FD or not, you were going to be processed before entry and on your way out, no matter the condition of the patient.

[@AllMi3htykid]

Maybe we need better training in communication between nursing home staff and EMS workers

[@aydenburris8631]

Hey man, I need some advice on SCBA confidence courses. I dropped out of fire academy because the culverts freaked me out too much. I was doing really well on tests, most of the training wasn't bothering me. I used to think it was fun wearing SCBA's but now I can't stand them. How can I fix this?

[@patrickharvey158]

I can feel this statement

[@itsyaboimat2393]

Get into a basic SCBA class and confined space courses the only way to get over it , is to train on it and eventually you'll get over being scared of it

[@aydenburris8631]

@@itsyaboimat2393 I know someone with 20 inch culverts, they're going to let me crawl through them until they don't bother me

[@patrickharvey158]

@@itsyaboimat2393 I had a training accedent about three years ago and ever since then nothing has been the same I'm not sure how to get past it

[@SlavkoRybak]

Thanks.

[@playingwithfiregaming9536]

If these guys felt unsafe going in, they have every right to stay outside... their protocol is obviously hazy at best and I firmly believe these guys were doing the best they could. It's unfortunate that the city doesn't seem to support them. Let's also talk about the fact that if CPR is being performed, the patient is already passed, they are just trying every last measure to bring them back. This patient died in the care of the staff... the responsibility doesn't solely land on the paramedics.

[@larrylegend8487]

The feeling unsafe rule does not pertain to Covid or something like AIDS. It has been around forever pertaining to weapons involved, guns, knives, etc. Police secure the scene, then you go in to treat the patient.

[@ChiraqVet]

Of course the local gov is gonna toss them in front of the bus. This kinda stuff right here is why people dont wanna do this job. An its getting worse daily.

[@tonkatankjuice]

I think railroading a few high quality care providers on the back of confusion; and unclear expectations and standards is a bad look on the fire department more than taking it on the chin if policies were unclear. Especially when talking about COVID as a... pandemic/sickness/illness and concern for responders. Period.

[@andrewevans7229]

they should be fired and potential negligence charges the fact they were doing this for so long shows there needs to be more overturn in that department

[@AmboAdz]

We have had something similar here in 🇬🇧 whereby emergency crews could enter care homes etc in case of emergency, but our patient transport services were refused entry past the reception area and had to wait on the pt being brought to them. I've had it also whilst responding to a 999 call be stoped by care staff till could prove that I had, had a negative lft result within the last 72hrs. It's got to the point here with jabs that scheduled care it patient transport service have to have had 2 jabs to do the job, where as emergency care don't until they bring in the legislation

[@j2o3sh]

“Might have been something at the beginning” my experience working in government is that there was something at the beginning but the city bureaucrats failed to communicate that! “That something” actually changed and new direction or amendment was not given from the beginning “something” to what was supposed to be done now. The biggest faults in city governments and the like is communications

[@andrewevans7229]

that was the nicest way he could say these medics were full of shit rightfully fired, should be facing negligence charges

[@kassi4837]

I am sorry but if a nursing home has to screen paramedics for covid or whatever before they can help a patient that’s seriously messed up. The paramedics should be screened when they show up at the firehouse. That’s not the nursing home’s job. That is just an unnecessary screening that delays care.

[@John_Smith_86]

Well.... if they were simply following lawful orders, then that is what they are supposed to do

[@HandsomeTallAzn90]

Pretty ironic for a department that claims to have the best CPR system or their CPR algorithm. Their protocols are pretty straight forward in that county. The idea of bringing any patient out to FIRE/EMS was implemented mid 2020 to early 2021. But currently, its just use universal precautions and enter facility. Of course that facility which is Rialto Post Acute (absolute shit hole/frequent flyer hot spot) doesnt have the best staff either.

[@outhouse9451]

As a firefighter, there’s no state, fed, whatever law that’s stopping me from coming in to a nursing home or any other place for a cardiac arrest or something similar

[@michaelmeyer8493]

Ok there was a law in place at the beginning... was that law time based? Was there a revision to the law at the time of incident? To many unanswered question. Love the content!!

[@andrewevans7229]

there wasn’t a law at the beginning

[@jakemartinez1354]

Why is there no wheels on the bed?? That should be something else we are talking about why can these patients be mobilized easily especially if there was any requirement for patients to be brought out to fire/medics

[@Keiengepro]

Do you have advice/things to tell for someone not from the US looking into joining the Firedepartment? like will some of the diplomas be valid in the US? i already sent a email once asking about this to a department but they did not respond, and i also cant really find much about this online.

[@andrewevans7229]

depends on your state. we have a paramedic from the uk but he has to go back through fire standards and paramedic school once he got here (FL)

[@heha4383]

Better to do something than nothing. “State law” does not trump ethics and professional code of conduct. Screw that law and make an effort to save the person. This whole situation is gross.

[@eliasthienpont6330]

98% of all "not Breathing" cases in a nursing home are terminal.Depending on a patients level of care it might be inappropriate to call an ambulance in the first place. An ambulance is never called for a patient on Hospice care. You just call Hospice and let them take care of it. Unfortunately when you call an ambulance you have called the code, if your patient is "no Code" then do not call us. Perhaps all that the nursing home requires, especially if they are under staffed is some one to hold their hands during an unfamiliar event. That is a staffing issue, and in our environs we will always help as we can Still, that is not how it works. You call us, we are taking your patient dead or alive. I have transported patients who were quite dead, but family expected us to "do something". Mostly protocol requires us to call the coroner and to ask the family what funeral home they want to use. Mostly when we are called to a nursing home or hospital, they will have the patient "Packaged" and ready to go. In that case it costs them nothing to bring the patient down to the ambulance bay.

[@johndonohue2168]

Responding to a facility like this i would think would be the same as responding to someone’s home. Technically it is there home and I would hope a more sanitized facility.

[@GilmerJohn]

Why didn't the nursing home simply roll the patient out? Immediate problem solved!

[@jamesbeavers6980]

I know from experience with a facility. Up to Oct they brought the pt to you or took pt u brought to them at the door. Now it's whatever but they never communicated with any one just changed it like changing underwear so anyone responding there u don't know

[@j2o3sh]

No auto defib in that home ?

[@Tacos888]

I mean it takes what 10mins for a bus to get to a home, that’s plenty of time to put them on a bed and get them to the exit door. Shame on the nursing home.

[@dracoslayer16]

I find it frustrating the mayor is told the exact law that caused this situation and responds with "I'm not sure if that law is still in effect or not." Wtf, you're the MAYOR it's your damned job to know these things!

[@QemeH]

I'm sooo glad that paramedic training in my country includes extensive legal training on the issues we're likely to face. Because I know that no sate law can ever prevent me from administering critical-to-survival care in ANY circumstance. Our constitution explicitly ranks the value of life above law and order, so even if I break the law saving somebodys life, I can't get punished for it (given that there wasn't another, legal way to render the same or better quality of aid).

[@michaelhogg324]

Thanks for showing us this video Mike, and that is a bad thing for EMS and FFs! I would think after this the SOPs and Responses would change and things get better for all of FFs and EMS in California and across the country. I do have to ask are you going to have any Firefighter NOW gear soon?

[@ImpGimp]

What is this at 1:00? A voice of reason on the internet?! I came here to be angry and not be impartial! Damn you! xDD

[@michaeld8443]

Cops are the real heroes

[@ChiraqVet]

On these kinda calls for possible covids, we send 1 inside an the other stay outside to limit contact. But this is in place at other services where they bring you the pt. I dont blame the medics or staff, its the people making these stupid rules over a cold.

[@DRFelGood]

Awe where would humanity be, if there was no media spinning stories, lawyers self interest , medical facilities panicking during an emergency, forgetting policy and procedures along with uninformed elected officials worried above the next election? I love it 🥰 firefighter’s find themselves in the eye of the hurricane daily. Just my Opinion here✌️ 🚒 Great Channel Content 🚒 👍

[@andrewevans7229]

the only uninsured group here was the ff/medics… what are you smoking? defending their actions and also their “policy”- disgusting

[@doozerakapuckfutin]

I was not there so I have no say …

[@danielcarney6193]

So may things going on in this video that shows the failures many in a situation brought on by political undertones and influence all around. The failure starts at the top and trickles down and creates so many holes of response and failures and so on. Also it exposed how badly mismanaged and unprepared and fragile the emergency response system is, even with how great it is and can be in places. But the key thing I picked up on was what the officer said in the beginning about it being a "state law" I am in CA, and have not heard of this law and I believe it to be a complete breakdown of staff not understanding or wanting to take the risks of their job due to so much of that political turmoil that surrounds the pandemic. We set up a SOP that sent in only 2 crew members unless the scene warranted more. Full Covid PPE was required on a known covid positive scene and even suspected scene. But we still responded in because it was viewed as not responding in would be a dereliction of duty. All in all, the politics that fueled so much confusion and the back and forth and inconsistent response and SOP across the country is the key failure in this in my opinion, and all to often some just follow what they are told to do, even if it goes against their opinions on response.

[@keeponwishin]

Where I live in Ohio, there was a point where many of the nursing homes made their own rule of not allowing any medics in their facility for any reason. We‘ve also been denied entry for being in contact with a COVID patient within 2 weeks (seriously, who hadn‘t?) even on emergency runs. People don‘t think these things through, and if they do, it‘s with a very idiotic mindset. This is a perfect example of how COVID is killing so many people. The virus has a 98% survival rate, but fear and confusion kill the masses.

[@my2cents945]

In my area these types of facilities must contract with private ambulance companies. The city fire service will not service these facilities.

[@TheModernSnipez]

"skilled" nursing facility

[@breakfastwithtrees9524]

Jesus Loves You

[@justreadjohn6_40]

God bless you

[@matthewpetersen4417]

ems has a duty and they failed it here. That was disgusting.

[@BlinkOnWheels]

I had to call911 for having trouble breathing one time. I got a call because they wanted me to go downstairs. I told them that I couldn’t because of my trouble breathing and feeling faint and being blind. Happened a couple more times. Last time they called I was so frustrated that I basically went off on them. They never asked me to go downstairs again.

[@lTempasl]

Ask yourself regardless of whether or not you have a department operating guideline: "Will I be held liable if I stay outside?" and "Will I be held liable if I go inside?". I see no reality where they would be in trouble for going inside and I see a million ways they would be in trouble for staying outside and refusing to enter. I think it's clear the responding Paramedic's desire to go inside did not outweigh their desire to stay outside. They could have contacted medical control. They could have decided a life threat was apparent once staff announced verbally there is a full arrest in progress. They also have confirmation from the same jurisdiction Police Department that the scene is safe to enter. If this was me, I wouldn't need convincing to enter the facility to address the arrest. But even if this was me and the SOG for my Department was on my mind, I would contact medical control or go up the chain of command and I would be entering that facility I guarantee you on that.

[@parochial2356]

You express concern for public pre-judgment based on the information available at this time. Then you go on to comment based on the limited info currently available, just as the media does here. Why not just wait to do your video until the full investigation & details are released instead of commenting/critiquing based on speculation?

[@jimkristoff8824]

From what I have seen in this video. The medics did not refuse to treat the patient. As shown later in this video. There was a protocol for which I think they were following. If I remember correctly, it said that care facilities were to move the patient to the door or outside. Again if correctly speaking. The protocol was from the EMS department. What would happen to the crew had they broke protocol, entered the facility and the patient still passed away. It is a shame that a person has died. No one in this type of work wants that to happen. But there are rules put out we need to follow. If this is the case then I hope the crew is not punished for their actions. If not then they must pay the price. Just my two cents and thoughts.

[@kingpinz101]

either way there are nurses in those facilities that are more than qualified enough to handle that situation, sometimes even more so than the responding units. all they needed to do was get the patient outside and the fire department would have done thier job

[@redknightVR]

i am becoming a junior firefighter soon i have wanted this for a long time

[@gua742]

Dude a cardiac and they did not enter? Are they nuts?

[@joshgilliam73]

That's me (Captain) and my crew in the video. I was with the department for 20 years (medic for 26 years) my engineer had been with the department for 26 years (medic for 31 years) and my firefighter had been there for 22 years (medic for 23 years). We are all experienced firefighters and paramedics. We were 100% following a policy that came directly from the fire chief during Covid 2020 and was updated multiple times leading up to this call. The policy was updated (most of the changes were about PPEs), but the part about waiting outside and "attempting to get staff to bring the patient outside" had never been changed or rescinded. The policy was still in place and we (the entire department) had been doing this since 2020. We never refused to go in. Ever. Not one staff person told us they couldn't bring the patient out. Ever. If they had, we would have immediately gone in. We only stood at the door thinking the patient was being brought to us. The police officer went in and pushed the bed out to us. The policy stated that we should attempt to get the staff to bring the patient to the door or to an open area, and that is exactly what we did. Two of us have been fired. The third was heavily disciplined and then retired. Our union is fighting for us in arbitration. Thank you to those of you who supported us and to you who assumed we did something rogue and just decided after all these years of helping people to all of the sudden just refuse to help a dying man, shame on you. We would never refuse care. These were trying times and we were trying to be compliant with policy and balance patient care. We are in for the fight of our careers. As all of you know, we don't make the rules, we follow them. I never thought I would be fired for following a policy. And it's unfortunate that during the time of this video, we were under investigation and were not allowed to speak about the investigation to anyone otherwise we would have spoken about the truth. Our condolences to the family. Sad to think they were made to believe we refused to help their family member. If you have any questions please reach out.

[@andrewevans7229]

you guys 100% should have been fired. complete failure of duty. no clue what kind of department culture you guys had that these policies wouldnt have been challenged by crews. the fact you were falsely taking that policy “requesting patients be brought outside” by dispatch for so long mates this even more deplorable

[@kenxiong6830]

Firefighting is a tough and dangerous job for tough people. If you’re scared of Covid this probably isn’t the job for you. Just send in firefighter Lucas

[@fgjjdgb3949]

Да уж.

[@Darknesiya]

Dang, complicated stuff. OwO