Fitting a 123 Distributor - Home Built Datsun 240z part 96

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

I played with it again yesterday and the timing was heavily retarded. Now the weird issue is that it's happiest idle shows as over 30 degrees advanced timing? My current thought is I may have the timing shaft 1 tooth out?

[@bloodreighn]

yup, that sounds about right, popping out the intake also means that its WAAAY retarded, also does the 123 ign kit say to setup the dizzy at tdc or at the idle static ign timing?

[@bloodreighn]

Maybe just turn the distributor clockwise till the light turns off then back on again? Not sure how those 123 Dizzys work

[@gregh7457]

Harmonic balancer may have slipped and timing marks are off. When the rubber gets old that happens to these balancers. So when you set it at what you thought was TDC, it may have not been TDC. I'm guessing thats what these distributors use as a baseline for the install. Btw, These engines LOVE lots of advance. What position is the cam gear set at? 1? 2?

[@avengervordred]

That Dizzy isn't right mate. The only time you have an actual back-fire rather than an after-fire is if the spark is ignited before the valves are closed. If you're at 30° on your app; you need to manually adjust the dizzy forwards then try tune it on the app again.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

1.

[@truthseeker8483]

The 123 distributor is a great idea, should be good when the rough running is sorted out. Bluetooth timing adjustment is brilliant. Moving the wheelbase backward in a 911 is really something!

[@K10wNs-Shed]

Having gone back and watched the video of it running with the points distributor it didn't cough and splutter, so I would at a guess say the issue is not the carbs, but the new distributor. Use the timing light to see if the magical computer and app are doing what they say they are doing and set the timing to the pulley accordingly offset in the app.

[@DiscoFang]

Yep, the carbs were fine before. Seemed odd to jump to the conclusion the new dizzy was good. It must tho', it has an App.

[@randyng-a-fook1695]

As I previously stated in your color tune segment, that oil pump drive shaft tangent should be at an 11:25 position, offsetted to the rear, meaning the top of the tangent should be toward the front side of the top bolt hole and the bottom of the tangent should be toward the back side of the bottom bolt hole. Right now your oil pump drive shaft is about a tooth advanced

[@donfinch862]

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Webers. You'll learn a lot. You should hear a difference when adjusting the idle mixture screws. I think there is a set mixture jet as well for ball park setting. You did say these are recommended for the Z. Should be right then. Prolly throw a timing light on anyway, I reckon you moved a bit more after the green light came on. At 19:10, replace that inline crimp

[@K10wNs-Shed]

The carby balancing tool isn't for setting mixtures on the carbs. It is to ensure the throttle butterfly is set at the same position on all throats (this controls the amount of air moving through the venturi). One of the carbs (usually the one closest to the linkage from the throttle cable) will be the lead carb. Adjust the other two to match the lead carb by adjusting the length of the rod that controls each of the "salve" carbs. Use the balancing tool to fine tune the position of the "slave" carb's butterfly position in comparison to the "lead" carb. A good way to learn about balancing carbs is to watch bike tuning videos. They almost always have multiple carb setups and a carb balance is part of the factory service intervals.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Yep. I opened the inspection holes on the carbs and made sure the butterflies were all open at the exact same angle, and then adjusted my linkages to all be perfectly even so I think the balance is pretty good. Now it is just sorting the timing and then getting the mixtures spot on.

[@K10wNs-Shed]

Measured angles and inspection gets it close enough to start and run. The balancing tool is to make it perfect by measuring the amount of air moving through. Slightly out of balance will not hurt the engine. It will just be a little rough at idle and throttle response will not be instant as some of the carbs lag behind. The linkages will wear over time and you'll need to do it again, and again. Most bikes are every 12,000km.

[@DiscoFang]

+1 on the bike thing. Quad carbs were common. Pretty reliable and perform superbly in the multiple small size with straight-shot into the engine, but I'd forgotten the joys of finding a local carb guru to get the tune back. Bike fuel injection rocks but I also remember the early days trade off of choppy low speed throttle response.

[@craigwoodfolk3240]

Hey Jeff. I have the same Bluetooth 123 Ignition installed in my 260Z. I'm very happy with it so far.

[@HCDeadbeat]

I'm trying to install mine right now on my 260. Was your install as easy as this?

[@alienpoker]

Degree the harmonic balancer (crank). They slip when old, and you get the wrong timing indication on your timing light. I just get a silver marker and make a new TDC 0 mark on my harmonic balancer. Of course to do that- you should take the valve cover off and look for the TDC mark in the ‘window’ when the first two lobes on the cam point up and look like “rabbit ears” (11 and 2 o’clock). As far as I’m concerned that’s the correct procedure to start to dial it in. I think you set up TDC correctly when installing the cam & timing chain. So set TDC 0 on your balancer indicator from that ! She will run like a champ.

[@markfinnigan4994]

Sound silly Jeff but check your leads (firing order)

[@robwhite240z]

Hi Jeff ,Check in this order, did you tell the 123 you are CCW .rev up engine and watch timing light . Is your brake booster holding vacuum . Check your float heights. check your carburetor emulsion tubes are tight . check your valve clearance "hot" it gets 2 thou bigger hot. One tooth out does not matter now

[@123ignitionchannel]

Hi Jeff, We just found your channel and love the videos! Also glad to see in part 102 that you found out what the cause of the problem was. Enjoy your 123! ~Team 123ignition

[@johnrich9361]

@123ignitionchannel Are you meant to set it at TDC or at the Static timing point for the motor? Also I thought you should never use the default curve but rather set it up manually to suit the motor?

[@123ignitionchannel]

​@@johnrich9361 It depends on the engine. For most engines, there is a static timing point which the original mechanical distributor was also set to. For example, if you check a repair manual for your car, you may find info about the distributor and the static timing point. Install the 123 on this point. If you have a 123\Tune+ (Bluetooth), you need to change the standard curve in the Tune+ to one which suits your engine. If you have the mechanical curve on paper somewhere, then you can follow our tutorial on our website to convert it for the Tune+. Alternatively, you may want to go to a dynamometer to get the most optimal curve for your engine.

[@booster1697]

My tip is disconnect the linkage so each carb is independent. Then balance the carbs. Use the throttle stop screw on each carb to synchronize. Once they are balanced then connect the linkage. If it goes out of balance again your linkage has not been adjusted to the same length for each carb.

[@mattah8326]

Advance base timing, those carbs need it. Stock timing is for SU's and vac adv dizzy.

[@dneedham8905]

Have you checked out the main, jets, emulsion tubes ,choke, etc ? Suggest you pop the cover on top of the carb and have a look. There are lots of jetting combinations available and they usually need to be tuned for each application. Webbers usually don't work straight out of the box. Your doing an awesome job love your Z.

[@niclas.lindstrom]

Always check your base timing with a timing strobe to make sure the actual timing is in sync with the map. It definitely sounds like your timing is far off. There is no way for that distributor to know exactly where the crank is without a crank angle sensor of some kind so it is completely dependent on your base setting. The fact that your default map was at 0 degrees makes we think that it actually represents an offset from the base setting as per the manufacturer. If that is the case I assume it should not be set to trigger at tdc but at the factory base angle...

[@steveveness3829]

G'day Jeff chech all the butteflys are actually opening equal amounts. As this will create what I saw. Yes so will small idle jets. But check the basic overlooked balance of All butterflys first. It might be a pain but it's important for balance of carbies. Your linkages are adjustable by the looks of it. Make sure all idle screws are backed off so butterflys are shut. ( some carbies set ups only have one idle screw, some have 3). Then loosen all linkages to carbies and adjust so all butterflys are fully closed. Then check at wide open throttle to see if all are horizontally on the same plane. If yes carefully tighten all linkages. 1st stage done. Then set idle screw or screws whichever style. Base idle should just be cracked open at the butterflys. Try running engine. Does it improve? Yes then move on from there. Small numbered drill bits come in handy for changing idle jet size. Be very careful @ this stage. Small increase in size makes quite a difference. However also leanes out mixture @ idle. Digital laser thermometer can be used on detractors to check individual cylinder temps. If mixture screws will not richen up enough then trusty drill bits are used to change hole diameter 1 size larger at a time. Be careful with drill sizes for all alterations. Otherwise by heaps of jets and spend a fortune getting it to run right. Good luck and it's getting very close now😉😊👍👍

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

I went through and checked the inspection holes and made sure the butterflies were exactly the same, and also made sure the linkages were spot on.

[@The9meister]

Hi Jeff, check if there is any air leaks between manifold and head with "start ya barsted" listen for change in idle, can cause tuning problems, and lean mixture. Rob

[@Paul_VanGo]

123-Dizzy is clocked 90° off, but you copied the ignition leads' position 1to1 off the old position? Be sure the rotor points to the connector of the 1st cylinder. It looks, like it's in the 6th. Don't play with the carbs!

[@Duaneoca]

I'm not at all an expert, but the motor in my truck runs best with crazy advance. I had a guy who rebuilds motors suggest that I needed to check my valve lashing (?) as the number of times that the head had been resurfaced has changed how the parts fit together. That may or may not be helpful, but I thought I'd throw it in. Also at about 22:45 there's a glitch in the matrix, where two different segments of the same content made it into the edit. :) Glad to know you're human too!

[@K10wNs-Shed]

Valve lash would make for rattling rockers. Lots of head resurfacing can lead to riding rockers and valves not fully closing (for OHV engines) and you need to get the correct length pushrods to compensate, or for OHC engines, the valve timing is out in the direction of the tensioner (a bit like having a very worn timing belt/chain and the tensioner is fully extended). Crazy advanced timing (or seeming to be crazy advanced) I would be comparing the marks on the pulley to the position of No.1 piston. Broken keyway on the crank or balancer spun would make it appear to be a long way advanced but in reality in the correct spot.

[@paulhenry3664]

Nice colour coordination Mrs Jeff

[@craigwoodfolk3240]

The door cards look great.

[@StevenVigus]

What could possibly go wrong with a wiring harness like that? 19:03 It's great to see her running!

[@MrDatsun]

Did you ever verify that the carb floats were all at the proper level with your pump running? Did you also have the idle mixture screws set out about 1.5 turns on each carb? You'll also want to set electronic timing +15 degrees as that's the sweet spot for triples.

[@ryanmicro]

Im putting money on 15 to 20 degrees advanced. Id say chexk with a timing light and look for 12,

[@356classiccars4]

Lovya your vids.. Even the failure is spectacular show in small garage. Like it. Greetings form PL!

[@adambetz9748]

“What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her”. Jeff, she knows.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Haha. Very true ;)

[@cortina042]

Hey Jeff, I think the problem lies in the setup with the green light. When you turned the distributor CW to get the light, the rotor ended up on the backside of the #1 plug position. Try repositioning the leads CCW 1 spot on the cap and see what happens. My 2 cents.

[@Stanchion76]

Great videos… saved me so much time. Curious what did you do with the PCV breather ? Notice you have a pipe off the top of the engine… not sure where that ran to.. cheers

[@jonathanwatmough]

Can't wait to find out the fix, but that engine sounded great the first time. Are you 180 deg off, wrong plug lead order?

[@danielhughes9556]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Im thinking of doing the same distributor swap on my dime.

[@jeffleach8906]

It does sound like the firing order is wrong. It should be 153624.

[@imsgoalie1]

Getting close!!!!

[@andrewlangford88]

A distributor with BLUETOOTH!? Bluetooth makes everything better

[@alienpoker]

It’s pretty cool. It (123 Ignition Tune+ Bluetooth distributor) shows you: advance and vacuum curves (editable), MPH, RPM, Battery Voltage / Amps, Engine compartment temperature, & can do Advance Tuning “on the road”. Max rev limiter too... And an immobilizer with a pin code. All from an iPhone or iPad (or Android) displayed App. Been waiting for something like this.

[@jcd0402]

Hi Jeff, I also had the same issue like you when changing distributors. The L series engines have as far as I can remember at least 4 different timing adjustment brackets. So to compensate for the wrong bracket when I switched to a points dizzy (found it for $25 brand new) I simply rotated the oil shaft 1 tooth forward, and that allowed me to get the engine running and idiling perfectly fine. Of course depending on the bracket you might need to move it forward or backwards one tooth on the oil pump shaft. Hope my comment is helpful to you, also go into community.ratsun.net, there you can find tons of info about the different timming adjustment plates! Good luck!!!!

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

No adjustment plate is needed for the 123. It can be spun 360 ;)

[@gav240z]

Be careful with coolant (glycol is toxic) and if you use the watering can on plants in the garden or on anything pets may go near it could be an issue. I'm very paranoid about that kind of stuff. Mainly because coolant smells sweet to pets. Trace amounts are probably not too much to worry about.

[@joelpalmer]

disconnect one plug at a time, if idle doesnt get worse, that cylinder is a problem. ie switched plug wire

[@mawe42]

Coughing in the intake usually means the that the firing order is out. Defiantly ignition related...

[@MattNZ1975]

Are you sure you haven't got a plug lead swapped? Sounds similar.

[@jonuldrick]

I know you used a different coil with this distributor, but did you use some sort of ignition control box? I have an MSD 6AL that I would like to keep using. This is in a 240Z as well.

[@stevenbauer7744]

Did you mechanically verify TDC (pull the #1 plug and verify piston at TDC on the compression stroke ) and compare against the marks on the damper?

[@rubennagtegaal1059]

Use the colortune sparkplug, works great!

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Next episode ;)

[@kiwiingenuity1677]

Backfiring out in let manifold can only be two things a stuck open or leaking intake valve or valves, or too far advanced ignition timing if it goes away at high revs.... if you can get any lol. Verify timing by a second means. Also 12 degree advance at idle sounds like twice as much as it should be compared too my old red 6cyl ??

[@lawrencemercieca]

Carbs are hell to deal with Maybe in the long run some Mikuni carbs would be awesome 😉

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

I have found it is not the carbs it is the timing, but I am getting there ;)

[@inz4in]

hi jeff how do i know when the car is at top dead centre? going to do this to my z but i don’t know how to set engine before i install

[@alexhill3706]

Hey Jeff I did exactly the same conversion with exactly the same 123distributor with exactly the same outcome as you. Coughing and sputtering. Something extremely wrong. BTW it has nothing to do with your carburettors. Because as soon as I flipped the old distributor back in it runs like a dream. It’s the 123distributor so stop playing with carbys. I haven’t been able to find the solution yet still playing. But keen to find out how it ends for you

[@steelofcrom]

Jeff you have a 3ohm distributor or a 1.5 ohm with a ballast resistor ? I have a 3.0 Ohm Pertronix and I am concerned as to whether or not it would jive with my new big $$$ 123ignition. I have a brand new (cheapy) 1.5 ohm and the original balast resistor that I had removed. What do you think ?

[@steelofcrom]

sorry bosch 1.8 not 1.5

[@winfredomgunther]

The time is needed fixed only

[@tallnrough68]

Yeah, did you get a fuel regulator for it ? Double check firing order.

[@ferdinand2506]

Hi Mate I have a 260 Z 1972 Not hpppy with Petromix and MSD 6AL No spark!! Does the Ignition 123 NEED a MSD or straight just the coil??? many thanks,ferdinand

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

I sold the car a few years ago and I can't remember sorry. Best contact 123 directly ;)

[@buckneighkidd419]

Got to be the Dizzy, modern electronic's never mix with older stuff. Good luck with it though, so near keep going at it.

[@p3l1k44n1]

Man if i had a problem like that with the carburetor, i'd be so mad.. It's a good idea to just leave it and focus on something else.

[@GlimoVideos]

I would guess plugs are in the wrong order, but it only happened to me once :P

[@DANIELCRUZ-rm1xm]

Buen día, se le podrá adaptar el múltiple y los carburadores de un 240z a un 280z?

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Yes you can.

[@JordanPayneLV]

When you say it has an immobilizer, you mean you can set it to not run when you leave the car, but then turn it back to running when you come back using the app? Like theft defense?!

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Yep

[@csopelario]

Were you ever able to find/fix the issue?

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Yep. Keep watching ;)

[@princepaul1928]

Oh, Jeff - its always hard to figure out problems when so much is changed once... I´m also kinda afraid that happens when I finish my L28 with new cam, webers and 123 ignition :D Could you do me a favor and check if that Bosh Coil has this number: 0 221 119 030 or which one did you use? There is no extra resistor in your ignition/coil circuit right? Thanks a lot ;)

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

That's the one ;). No resistor

[@princepaul1928]

@@HomeBuiltByJeff many thanks ;) awesome to see a second video from you this weekend. Greetings from Germany!

[@mikl911]

Did you account for the 90 degree change in the rotor for the firing order, does that not make a difference? It does kind of sound like carb adjustment.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Yep ;)

[@mikl911]

@@HomeBuiltByJeff I think you nailed it with the idle jets. I had the same issue with my 78 911 SC when I switched to carbs.

[@mikl911]

Never mind just saw you timing response. LOL

[@badkron]

Should have gone to Kameari Engine Works

[@danandyong6653]

Coolant in most cases is toxic to animals, so putting it in the garden water pot is bad! So what she doesn't know will hurt something. Especially if mixed with edible garden food. I realize you will rinse it, but.. not cool

[@jaymutina3843]

Timing or Firing order is out. Might be you timing chain got set onto the wrong tooth which can be compensated for with firing order. So close!

[@bigospig]

Spark plug wires incorrectly run?

[@silvermane9370]

Aarrrgh! Frustrations. Although Mrs Jeff is looking like the style icon she is in her sweet car matching jacket. In fact I think you should give the finished car to her as a thanks for all the fun facts!

[@gespinal0301]

Whats the name of the vacuum measuring tool?

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

It is just a carburettor vacuum gauge

[@JustAnotherAsianGuy2]

guessing .... the fuel pump is bad or one of the fuel injector is bad

[@tallnrough68]

JustAnotherAsianGuy2 it’s carbureted

[@1farmgate]

plug gap?

[@KirkVSSpock]

Firing order must be wrong !

[@mgbrv8]

You might have a vacuum leak also

[@AMLagonda]

Can so tell that the timing is out....

[@haydengreensmith6894]

I would try bigger jets in the carbs

[@DiscoFang]

42nd!

[@DiscoFang]

Doesn't quite have the same caché as first. It's 41st loser but there are 7.53B people in the world, so I'll take the 42 spot as a win.