Fixing Delves to fix Mythic+

[@specter2k]

The issue isnt delves, the issue is M+ regressing every time they try touching it. The only exceptions have been DF s3 and s4 which felt like they were finally moving in the right direction and the numbers proved it. Then we got into the current season and they clearly regressed the system. We play games to have fun not deal with bs, we all deal enough with that irl.

[@3literdieselengine264]

the sheer amount of elitism and whining because people dont have to put up with M+ Pugs anymore to get decent gear is beyond me, d*ckmeasuring contests like M+ have ruined the game man... Edit: If yall want to fix M+. Tell blizz to stop with the free to play mobile game design choises like depletion of keys or the random key system or including a failsafe for when someone leaves prematurely and the key isn't going to waste for that. Stop crying because people don't have to put up with these grease monkeys anymore and get gear that is equivalent to heroic raiding. Raiding has become more pay to win than anything, don't have enough gold? No raid for you, as simple as it can get. The delve system have singlehandedly saved the game for many people that are just casually play the game, people that are crafting YOUR highend equipment because we are bothering with the new crafting system that came with DF because your sweaty A55 is too busy pugging M+ keys.

[@Wolverines9999]

No doubt! Sadly, I’m sure blizzard will bow down to the elitist and will change the delve system and screw casuals. Do you want to fix mythic plus? Take the damn deplete away and you don’t have to worry about people that screw up your precious key. Before you invite someone to your key, just look and see what progress they’ve made so far. Don’t invite someone with too low of an IO to a key way out of their range. This guy even suggesting to put a rating system on delves the dumbest freaking thing I’ve ever heard anyone say. Just another person worrying about gear that someone else gets that doesn’t affect him directly. Probably one of the same people who bitched about LFR people in the past getting a lucky proc upgrading gear. People running delves to gear up and then going into Mythic plus is not what screwed mythic plus up. It’s elites whining about the game who provide blizzard with free advertising that screwed up mythic plus. I’m sick of it.

[@3literdieselengine264]

@Wolverines9999 yup same here. I'll be real with you, the moment I saw what kind of grease monky is going to yap for the next 5 minutes I was like "Yup, not supprised". If Blizz touches the delves and nerfs the loot, then I'll just not play the game anymore, it's as shrimple as that. If you want to fix to mythic plus then remove the key depletion and let people choose what key for what dungeon they want to run. Punish quitters harder with a longer Dungeon Deserter debuff that leads to a suspension if applied too often. But don't come and screw us over who are just having fun with the game man. Imagine people would who are doing crafting professions that the crafting is too easy to be maxed out (fat lie) and in turn, blizz screws the gatherers over by reducing the amount of resources per node that you can get.

[@Himsanity_11181]

Agree. I hope they dont mess with delves.

[@specter2k]

As soon as he mentioned "there's no rating" for delves I zoned out. Not everything needs a super try hard scumbag system tied to it. This is why delves are fun and just the right amount of difficult because it's all on you to complete it. I prefer to dick measure irl because I get something tangible for it and have something to show for it, idgaf about doing it in a game anymore.

[@3literdieselengine264]

@@specter2k literally yeah. I have stopped playing competitive after I left the semi pro league of R6 Siege. It drained me and made me not enjoy games, so any game or activity that sports a public ratings board is just a huge downturn for me and I'll be real with you, when the majority of people rather play delves than M+, then that doesn't mean that Delves are "Two rewarding", more so that people now have an escape from these unwashed 40+ y/o loosers that won't leave you alone about how good the game was in Wrath and how you have it sooooooooo easy. Let alone the sweats and wanna be pros that make more mistakes than your average casual.

[@RpGirlRizo]

I think adding a score to delves is a terrible idea. There's enough competition in the game. Let delves be the enjoyable content for the casual players that it already is. Leave the competition to M+. I also don't think people would be all that interested in rewardless M+. I think a lot of people already find it a drag when they finish one and they only get crests/gold. I don't see anyone really running keyless M+ except those crest farming. I appreciate that you've chosen to share your ideas, I just don't think it would be attractive to the larger player base.

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

Great video. I agree with all points. Just started healing as holy priest, and even mythic 0 wasa quite suprising how tough it was. felt like a DF 6.

[@sagerobot]

Thats cause it is. They made it so m0 is equal to old system +10

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

@@sagerobot Exactly, and then nerfed the tanks and healers. Needs work Sage, it needs work.

[@noobzeren]

m+ people should have the ability to choose the dungeon they wanna run, not some random key .. just the level you get .. then you can put it in any of the dungeons .. really don't understand why it's so random .. give me a +8 key and then i'll pick the dungeon i feel i wanna run

[@scuttlebut]

The downside to this is there will be dungeons that never get run.

[@noobzeren]

That just means they aren't good enough? 🤣 but guess they still will be run for bis gear?

[@AnEsotericKnight]

I think I'd still prefer to go the Bellular route and break things more, but you're ideas are some of the best I've heard if you are afraid of too much change. Key depletion needs to die one way or another.

[@Magik160]

Delves are not entry level to M+. It’s solo content. People really need to separate the 2 in conversations. If you have issues with M+, dont take it out on delves. They are 2 different pieces of content. Complain about the M+ only.

[@Chillguymark]

3100/CE player here - don't agree with adding rating to delves but quite literally everything else sounds great!

[@WoWFamilyTime]

Overall great suggestions, I didn’t hear you mention infinite scaling (like m+) for delves which I think is crucial in making it actual end game content, a global leaderboard more meaningful, and eliminates the need to nerf delve rewards overall. I also don’t like the idea of no gear without a key in m+, keep loot chance the same as is (you’re basically only running m+ for vault right now anyway) but let keystones act sort of like coffer keys in delves where you get 2 chances a day to target loot from a dungeon pool at the level you’re running it. Whatever m+ levels eliminate the timer should be thrown into the dungeon queue system. Content suggestion, if you could mark with a video chapter where your suggestions start so those who are familiar with the groundwork can hop to the meat that’d be awesome! Liked and subscribed!

[@denethar01]

I meant to mention infinite scaling, it was in my notes, but I rolled over it. I appreciate the feedback, and I will add chapters to the video. Thank you!

[@suebovard-kentner2089]

Leave delves the hell alone! I hate M+ with a passion. Between the nerfs to tanks and healers to the nasty people in pugs, its just not fun for me. Prior to delves, tho, i was forced to do mythics just for the gear and resources to upgrade said gear so i could raid with my guild, which I do enjoy. As for mythics, could we please allow us to replace a player in the middle of the dungeon? I was doing a +2 to help a guildie and we had to pug a tank. He wasnt pleased with the dps and left, thus ruining the key. A guild tank had come online in the meantime but couldnt help us because he couldnt enter our key in progress.

[@supersolenoid]

I guess by now we all agree that key depletion in M+ must go

[@RubenManriquezS]

Trying to fix M+ by changing Delves is not recognizing or not having a real sight of the problem. M+ has their own problems, tailored by the last rework. And need to be fixed inside M+ design. Trying to make a Delve similar to M+ system is a bitching and whining system of mansplainning “gear yourself as I say and not other ways”. Not a single Delve player want a ladder or a timer in their content. Left that to the sweatiest.

[@EvlEgle]

Nothing wrong with delves. The problem is that mythic +3-6 need to drop better gear than delves. Need to drop more runed crests than delves. And need to be easier than they are currently. Tanks need survivability buffed. And healers need to be healing 2-300% more health per cast. I tried healing timewalking on my resto shaman, and it ranges from "good tank, doesnt die or take enough damage to matter, and heals keeps themselves topped up" to "this tank literally doesnt ever press anything that isn't a dps ability, pulls like they are a mdi superstar but is just slightly above inanimate object intelligence so I have to spam my ass off to keep them alive" Healing just has too little impact outside their big, oh shit cooldowns. Which are used more like "you need this button just live" in higher keys. The TLDR; is, Delves are fine, its a loot problem, and a class design problem. Healing isnt powerful enough, tanking is to arduous for the rewards. People dont wanna do either thing.

[@dgiras13]

wasted 15 mins of my life. cant find any of your thoughts appealing or a bit correct

[@drid2507]

I've maxed out my gear in delves and now I'm just hoping Zekvir or a chest drops a map to get gilded crests. I and a lot of people who just run delves have hit a ceiling. I have no interest in dungeons or raids. Hopefully 9,10 and 11 delves will drop gilded crests in the future.

[@shawnthurman5887]

The timer just flat out needs to go. Your end time adjusts your rating to push you to your next tier. Your rating pushes you to your next tier.

[@ScottKent]

I like what you have suggested, but I think M+ should learn from Delves and if you haven't done the previous level you don't get to run a certain level. You should have to do all the previous levels once per expansion. I really don't think bad delvers are gearing and then trying to do M+...I think bad M+ players are using delves to try and out-gear the M+. Pretty sure that going forward when delves don't have a huge head start, people will focus more on the material they enjoy for gearing and not spend time grinding something else...unless the loot is just that much better...which I doubt.

[@Lucycote]

The issue isn’t delves🥴🙄. That’s what a solo player has. Most of us solo players aren’t looking to go into m+ and dealing with all the toxic people!

[@Takeonwilds]

Uhm, dont Think thats going to change anything. Im 2600 rated, I do Can ALL Dungeons in +10 with no issue. People who are the same rating is screwing up so Many of my runs its insane. Im always nr. 1 or 2 on interupts (im a fucking resto druid) Im Lucky if dps use more than 2-3 defensives the entire run, and ofc use dr cds after getting hit by mechanic, rather than before. People are getting carried hard and im sick of doing that, While still wanting to Weekly cap for the best vault. I Want something gatekeeping poor skill players somehow.

[@kantace5198]

Delves were designed as an antithesis for „rated“ m+ content. So, I really dont see this on the horizon.

[@DarrenGagnon-u7v]

Anyone saying that they enjoy doing a delve is lying. Delves are a loot machine for vault and most people don’t go higher than an 8 and four delves per week. They are boring as hell. Rating for delves is a cool idea. Might make it a little bit more of a goal thing idk bc delves blow lol. Also give more damn crests for higher level delve. Level 10 delve equals 10 crests. I also think they should give 12 crests regardless of making the timer in mythic plus. Make the timer give more, or better loot. Get a mythic plus and delve vendor. People love earning tokens and buying from a vendor. Simple ways to make the game fun.

[@Magik160]

Not true at all. I loved delves. Did my 8 8’s every single week until i geared to max. Enjoyed delves. Didnt have to deal with M+ elitists, waiting on groups and being at their mercy. I had to beat the content. I had to figure out the strategies and if I failed, then I was at fault.

[@KgenRobin]

Mythic + too hard.... Delves are messing up Mythic +.... Just play the game. if it's to hard then get better. Blizzard develops the game it's up to the players to play the game. Why is it always Blizzards fault.

[@oliverc2502]

People choose to do M+ coz they love challanges. What's a challange if easy to run ? 😂😂

[@johnjarrett3428]

Could not disagree more. Delves are fine. If anything they need higher loot! You want to make + better? Get rid of single use keys. Should be able to use at least three times. How else can you practice a run? I also think leaving should be easier - not harder. Too many aholes in when pugging them now. Can’t tell how many times the options are put up with caustic players or leave and get a deserter debuff. Below 4s it should be easier to drop

[@TacBlades]

Ratings lead to toxic playrs. M+ is not fun repetive and just terrible content. Delves are fun. If people are doing delves rather than m+ its because it better content for solo players, maybe delves should have higher loot so people are not forced to do m+ ever for gear if they dont want to.

[@zickbone]

scenarios, island, thorgast, delves. only non disappointing solo content they ever did was the mage tower

[@RpGirlRizo]

I disagree. I thoroughly enjoy Delves more Mage Tower. MT is great for a one time challenge, but nothing more.

[@domoneeko6723]

why would you put a rating on a solo dungeon that is not competitive? do you mean to make it competitive? if so, you just destroyed the concept of delves. we solo so we do not have to suffer the toxicity of other judgemental players. the reason delvers are joining mythic+ is because of gilded crests. the drop rate of gilded crests in delves are so rare, you can delve for 6 month and not get 15-30 which is required for an upgrade of your HERO gear which delvers can only get through the weekly Great Vault or from the rare Delvers Bounty which is also where gilded crests come from in delves. so we get stuck at ilevel 619/626 gear because........You guessed, we need more gilded crests. because there is a limit to converting rune to gilded, i have to get gilded somewhere else. where? mythic dungeons and raids. so in the perfectly sadistic game design of blizzard by holding a gilded carrot on a stick in front of a soloist delver's face, they push you out of your comfort zone into the toxic mythic+ community. so basically, blizzard created their own problem and banning a lot of players for it. ironically funny, lol. so give delvers their own end game and do NOT mix delvers with mythic+ players, period. if they really want to mix, let it be completely up to the player without a carrot-on-a-stick.

[@Zitadelle_der_Raben]

Stop pushing delves in a m+ system what people exact not want . Itas good plwying delves and raid without forced to do m+. Hard Dungeons ok. But Without timer to use crowd controll again and having fun. Go Play m+ but if you like but do not tell people how they have to Play the game anymore. Only that you feel better with an system most people only do because they must to raid or to get allong in the game. Wow was a bettet place without m+.

[@tonberryhugs6435]

I don’t think M+ is harder, they just ramped up the difficulty earlier. And a 2 is not like what used to be an 11, that’s crazy. Maybe like a previous 4 or 5. I’ve been getting KSM every seasons since S1 of Shadowlands. And everyone SHOULD be using their interrupts and CDs. Delves should nerf rewards if anything.

[@3literdieselengine264]

@@tonberryhugs6435 there is a reason why so many people are rather doing delves than raising and M+. They don't have to put up with these wannabe God tier sweats that apparently are only held back by the others. May it because one DPS can't magically crank out as much damage as 3 of the same caliber or because the healer can't perform miracles and counterheal the damage of 3 trash packs with affixes. For raids it's almost the same, but with money. Didn't participate in the absolute goldshowers that happend in WoD? Too bad, no raid for you. If anything they should focus on adding more reward tiers for T9 and T10 delves so that the sweatlords and "Juicers" have even more to seethe over because they can't sell their overpriced raid parties anymore.