FlaSh vs Jaedong Game 3 @ NATE MSL Finals

[@AreolaGrande94]

is that commentary from the indian-sounding dude in fast forward? holy shit

[@marknalang20]

You should be a rapper

[@MaxMikescrool1]

90% of comments "Boo your voice sucks" Me: Holy shit I'm impressed

[@A1phaProdigy]

This guy could solo cast a 4v4 and not miss a single detail

[@Jinisinsane]

old schol sc is more fun than sc2

[@CouveTJ]

What a great game that ended in a tragedy.

[@puckSHOCK]

@mddoc09 I think the power outage probably destroyed any chance of a replay. All we have left is the live vod =/

[@MrAndersonmm]

Ah. The infamous game 3. I tried watching this all live but missed this one. Can't wait to hear your take on it.

[@lolololol999991]

I have no idea these games go so far back wonder were I should go to see the first tournaments .

[@weezerblink194]

that dude can drop some words at a magnificent rate.. Like a soccer commentator when ball gets near any goal.

[@T0pel]

OMG for me that was one of the best games I have ever seen! and it crashes before the end, really perfect

[@kebabbert]

I rather watch matches where several commentators speak, rather than one only speaker. RashinDA is alone. I choose your variant instead. The more the merrier. I really like what you guys do. Gives much deeper understanding of what is going on. You catch the strategy. Thanks guys! If you come to Sweden I'll buy a beer! :o)

[@crimsoncosmonaut]

Maybe one of the PC's crashed because it couldn't hold the APM of Flash and Jaedong haha

[@Noarcs]

Flash gave up attacking the 7 o'clock, meaning he didn't think his army could be traded with Jaedong's. The base that Flash was taking was also quite open to attack. It was also a mineral only meaning Flash would either have to make Vessels or Tanks with 1 gas only. Either way, Jaedong is good enough to take it from Flash at that point at least 90% with soon 5 gas (his 5th is being reconstructed at the 1 o'clock).

[@KyleJonesDrJones]

@Balgore8 The whole studio lost power, so I don't know why you're saying Jaedong's computer didn't lose power. Perhaps you misread? There was some mix-up with the power company and when the studio pulled too much power, they shut it down, instead of having uninterrupted power supply like most studios.

[@JDRC07]

I'm sure you guys are aware of this right now, but Flash didn't have two bases running, his main was mined out and JD had 3 running bases with a 4th building

[@WTFallusernametaken]

!!!!SPOILER!!!! For those of you that saw the 4th match already, it looked like Flash just gave up and lost his fighting spirit (pun intended) after Jaedong was awarded the win for this map. It was also the map he thumbed down. If they were to redo this map, I think Jaedong would have lost his own moral seeing him winning on this T favored map. This map, Odd Eye was also the map that Jaedong thumbed down. If I wanted to please the fans and both players, I would say redo on Jaedong's map choice.

[@dogabutila]

Look dude, there is 30 seconds extra of game that is not on this vod because of tape delay. Find the HQ vod and you will see you are wrong. Flash got pushed out of 7:00 and was retreating with 10 marines. His main was mined out, his nat had a patch mined out in this vod already, probably mines out not long after blackout in the HQ vod, and then he can only produce 20 marines a minute off of 6 mineral patches. JD has 5 gas, and was starting up 1:00 again. when main/nat go down that is still 3.5

[@brainofjikir]

im glad i got to hear the commentary by moletrap and klazart after hearing the other one. Not that the other guys are bad, but when watching them it just seemed like flash was winning the whole time.

[@spawkcaps96]

Hahahaha this commentary

[@justplainkage]

The problem with fast irradiation of defilers is that it didn't look that at the time of DC that Flash would have the resources to get more SVs. The defiler was left untouched closer to the time of DC with SVs right near it. They didn't have the energy to use irradiate.

[@Jackoo]

2nd expansion was already set up so he wasn't distance mining. Z's main is almost dried too judging from the mini map. keep in mind zerg needs more gas than terran, and if you argue T's gas must being closed to mined out, then you can apply same logic to zerg. in any case, outcome of 7 o clock would have determined who's ahead.

[@Ym1r]

@redninjastarx No, because somebody posted a definite answer to why Jaedong was picked as the winner, and why he was so ahead. It can explain it better than I can, because it uses screenshots and analyzes data from the game.

[@Balgore8]

Oh I didnt realize. I thought I heard them saying in the commentary that it was Flashes computer. My Bad!

[@PseudoKnight]

This has probably been mentioned already, but.. Flash had one base mined out, his natural wasn't far behind, but he JUST got his second expansion up. It looked like Jaedong was going to hold onto that 7o'clock base and he had the economic advantage. It didn't even look like he was mined out on his main, which is not surprising for zerg. Fair call.

[@Norcaljourneyman]

Auctioneer?

[@dogabutila]

I *think* jon747 has the extended version. I'm not sure. I know I saw it somewhere. I've seen the roffles stream, matt and somebody's tape of their live recording on violetak, jon747, and klaz and moletrap here again. Unless somebody had posted a link to it on TL then it was almost certainly jon747. And sorry, my math is wrong. It's 7.5 ultras a minute with all his gas. on 3.5 I think it is 4 or so. Still, it is certainly more then enough even discounting swarm since Flash had no irradiate.

[@Bowserfuzzi]

mayb you need vessels vs defiler/ultra tech zergs?! vessels are a essential part of skterran..

[@dukaduka506]

cant they just use the map editor to reconstruct all the units and buildings on last recorded placements on map?

[@mddoc09]

anyone know if there is a site where you can download a replay of this game so i can look at the entire map?

[@lunarfaith4515]

What section 13? When was it written? Right after the power outrage?

[@christinio]

@adraim69 you're obviously wrong. they see as much as we do. and you're forgetting about flash's 9 o'clock expo

[@americouk82]

Oh man, I really wanted to see that game to the end it was tuning out sooo epic!!! Damn it!

[@antiunis]

Klaz, Flash only was building his 3rd cc and his main was dry secondary almost dry. Look at the minimap i dont see any 3rd base of Flashes anywhere and JD had 4 bases. Flash was long distance mining.

[@adamisuber]

They should have simply allowed jaedong to choose the map to rematch on, that would have made his advantage worthwhile and allowed a fair game.

[@mddoc09]

@puckSHOCK is there a place to get other replays though? I just always watch VODs but can we actually watch replays of progaming?

[@flashystorm]

which video has the translated annotations?

[@HarryRawrr]

What is a crackling? I'm guessing a zergling with the speed upgrade?

[@Dynamox5]

Klazart! Its good to see you back in commentaries. Personally I think you submit some of your work to Blizzard and go for the big money! That's just my opinion though.

[@ZergrushEddie]

The game is from 2010 and yet the monitors are from 1998...

[@yskay]

this would be the best tvz series ever....if everything goes well.... after seeing flash vs zero, i can't stop thinking it...

[@1sillybanana]

I laughed really hard at the start when he said "he is the yellow terran player"

[@DreamWindX]

For reference, supposedly the power in the arena went out. It wasn't a computer crash.

[@Jackoo]

well i am just stating my opinion off this vod, and i can't find the 30+ sec vod you mentioned anywhere, can you (or anyone) please post link? like i said, if jaedong could secure 7 o clock then the match is his, and if he really did according the the extended vod, then i agree with kespa's rule. i'm not buying your math and the conclusion you lead to though.. it could be right but i only just play and get a feel of how things work and don't really do the math. thx a lot for reply though!

[@Asmobia]

I agree Tanks hate melee units, but I don't think T has many options if Z defends its base with Defilers and full upgraded Ultra, please let me know how you deal with Ultras hiding in the mist without tanks. Unlimited battle cruisers? You won before that. Unlimited Vessel and radiation? It will be hard to protect your Vessels from Scourges if your MC can't target them automatically in the mist, right?

[@0SamHall]

Its not a rap battle kid, talk slower

[@Ym1r]

@CrazyCrackahMelakle Barely. The chances of a Broadcasting station killing its electricity for a second is highly likely, as opposed to a swimming pool draining during the olympics.

[@lequinow]

This is so frustrating! I'm still watching this and find the decision very obvious. It's true that Flash didn't have a very good expansion, but he had a very well developed army system. If he would has taken the bottom left, he could have win the game for sure!

[@douzigege]

speaking of that guardian attack last game, jaedong was prepared since he had scourges right after guardians are almost dead. he was depending on flash not knowing that surprise attack and making efforts on his timing. flash was lucky enough to scan and saw that tech.

[@RaverJay]

@kebabbert Ranshin has Nuke alongside, you don't know what you're talking about? :D

[@Chi1GiayNuaThoi]

starcraft code C chapter 13... wtf is that? Who made that shiet up?

[@megayoyo6969]

Did you record this with a potato?

[@sheandicallitus]

That point has to be made. I agree with BlackHawkBG. If it had "crashed" at 14 minute mark with Jaedong down to 2base and Flash having a huge M&M ball on the map, the game would have been awareded to Flash.

[@AgencyEric]

Check TL. There are torrents for all the OSL/MSL starleagues going back to the very beginning

[@tirentu]

A great analysis was posted on TL at some point. Essentially, Flash was mined out at his main, almost mined out at his natural, and his mineral only would be difficult to defend. Jaedong was on five gas. Five against one gas. That's over. The refs had three choices. 1) Give Jaedong the game. Flash fans will be angry, but the result will be rather accurate. 2) Give Flash the game. Jaedong fans will be angry, but the result will be inconsistent with the gamestate. 3) Rematch. Terran favoured map?

[@LemonVince]

Time has changed. The Joyo vs boxer was island-only map, and Joyo totally forgot to expand. Wasn't a come back from Boxer, that was a blunder from Joyo.

[@Jackoo]

@harrisonhiroyuki , before you ask who that guy is, who the hell are you?!! fyi Klazart is one of the most respected commentator ever, so don't leave your ignorant comment about a person who has carried the english commentary community throughout the years.

[@stap1er]

@ijuka brilliant so both the commentators are all of the above.. nice

[@deinse81]

Baseball games are called instead of re-played when it rains after the fifth inning, and no one ever questions it. The only difference I can see here is that the people who are bothered by the decision don't really understand the rules it was based on. If they did, they would accept it just like baseball fans do. Jaedong was clearly ahead, and the rules say he won.

[@ElevenHymn]

catabowl, no. I suggest you watch the Jon747 video of this match. It shows 30 more seconds of the match than this video does. At 30 seconds beyond what you have seen, JD 'destroys' the attack on the 7oclock. Flash starts retreating the 1.5 control group of M&M, Flash loses a mineral patch on one of his bases showing that all of those at that base were about to run out. Flash has only marines, not many of them, his Vessels all have low energy, he has no tanks, with his factory floating.

[@Ym1r]

@Balgore8 Yeah, Jaedong was on the brink of collapse on that bottom left expansion, but Flash was on the brink of collapse on his production. He had vessels with no energy, which was what kept Jaedong at bay really, and those ultras were about to over-run Flash regardless. Even if that expansion did fall, Jaedong was ahead anyway, which is why they gave the game to Jaedong

[@thesheepthemightythecrazy]

the moment MSL gave game 3 to jaedong, flash gave up on this series already. I don't blame him. thanks for the time klaz and moltrap.

[@psychicspacecats]

Too bad there's no way to just reset the game to what the state was before the problem happened. I mean, if they can record a match, there must be a way to use that recording to reconstruct the battlefield and then have the players resume.

[@WTFallusernametaken]

It's obvious that Jaedong was in the lead. He was running on four bases while Flash was on 1.5 with his natural almost mined out and a new mineral only starting up. If Jaedong had held that doubled gas expansion, which looks like he would have, he would've been on 5 gas. Flash also didn't have any tanks produced yet so I don't see what immediate counter he would've had to ultralings + defilers. The map was Terran favored as it was. I think it was the best decision, but it sucks it happened.

[@Ym1r]

@Balgore8 Once again, go read Teamliquid. Flash was behind Jaedong in Macro power, and even if Jaedong lost that base he had more minerals and gas than Flash. Flash's army was dwindling slowly because his minerals and gas could not keep up with 8 rax 2 port. It's an all-in that he wasn't going to win.

[@duncanidaho7]

If the argument you want for flash is that he was going to take the 7 o clock you should probably rewatch the end and see that Flash was pulling out his marines. @ about 18:00 you can see mineral piles being emptied for Flash in natural. I really don't think he'd keep up with enough vessels especially after basically giving jaedong the 7oclock's gas.

[@Ym1r]

If Flash had been given the "Free Win" as others have described it, then Jaedong fans would have called bullshit, and Flash fans would be happy. It was simply a decision of less consequence. Jaedong was already in a secure position against Flash, so giving him the win would have been the obvious situation, especially in maps that have already been Terran favored, instead of a re-game where he had a chance to lose.

[@Krnballerzzz]

His main is mined out. His expo is almost mined out. His new expo JUST STARTED. Jaedong had 5 gas with 4 bases. Obviously JD was ahead.

[@Razz1024]

I love that part where those group of M&M just slaughtered those ultralisks at the bridge there

[@AnimeIntroStyles4]

If anyone watched the live cast, Flash's computer (specifically his computer fan) is what crashed the game.

[@chrisdaniels160]

I almost never see Hydras being used, why?

[@Bomfunker91]

Haters? Seriously? We can't understand what Klazart is saying because he talks too freaking fast for his own good. I mean, just listen to some of the moments in this match where he really hits the high speeds (I direct your attention to 09:25 in particular): he's unable to move his lips and tongue fast enough to match the flood of words trying to escape his mind. It's not hating: it's constructive criticism, because listening to Klazart spit 600+ words-per-minute into his mic is torture.

[@iMDRt.]

Flash was winning the game. He's about to shut down JD's 4th expansion. He's expanded to 3rd base, running 2 bases without 1 mined out. JD was losing his 4th expansion, running 4 bases with 1 getting shut down, and another will be mined out in a few mins.

[@danielkaspa]

Yes. He had army, tech and econ advantages, so it was probably his game anyway.

[@mopbrothers]

I thought Jaedong was gonna lose. Flash had an overwhelming number of units. This is by far the most disappointing way for a super exciting game to end. I wanted to know who was gonna win!

[@Pwncakes1966]

I agree that Jaedong had more resources. Flash's nat was almost mined out, his main was mined out and if JD had kept up with the swarm it would have been gg in his favor eventually.

[@Liaomiao]

What the hell happened? Did Flash EMP the stadium????

[@nilka83]

Studying the map really hard, I can really understand why Kespa rooted in favour of flash. Most people here say this was a 2cc to a 3 hatch fight, when it indeed was a lot worse for the terran. Firstly jaedong had 4 bases. 3 to the left, and the one they were fighting for. flash had only 1 mining. as his main was mined out. jaedongs was not. Flash was close to getting his 3rd up but jaedong was finally getting ground and if he got some more he would actually be in flashes base.

[@Ym1r]

Even if he lost that bottom left base, Jaedong was in such a secure lead because flash couldn't have kept up minerals with his 8 rax 2 port production line. However I do believe if the game had blacked out just minutes earlier, it would've been called a rematch. It honestly looked equal the whole game until those ultras started poppin.

[@DespiadadoGr]

WHO WAS WIN? JAEDONG?

[@Balgore8]

BS definitely should have rematched or declared it a draw. I think Flash was in a really good position to take out that third base at the bottom left.

[@Balgore8]

Read what I said... "if they could not continue from the exact point they left off at." There is no way in a Stanley cup final, or any sporting final match up, if they could not restart the game, and the game had not finished but was interupted... They would declare extra periods, or make it an entire rematch. They would never award a finals game by decision. Regardless of advantage. Its more unfair to give someone a loss than to make a potential winner just have to re-try.

[@Balgore8]

If Jaedong had of lost his base in the bottom left, he not only would have been close to mined out in his main and natural, but his army would have also been all gone, because he was throwing EVERYTHING at defending that expansion. Regardless, we can all debate back and forth all day on what we think was the better position etc... But we will never know for sure. Its easy to stand here and predict what could have happened, but these guys are pro gamers and other variables could take place.

[@ig33ve]

technically, jaedong was far ahead: flash's 2 mining bases were nearly mined out (if you rewatch it) and he was JUST getting his mineral only up. while JD had 4 bases plus that double gas. also swarm is the ultimate tie breaker, arguably he couldve defended the bottom left for as long as he needed with consume and swarm. it's definitely unfair to award JD the victory, but it wouldve been more unfair to have JD who was going to win anyways to replay from the beginning.

[@chiruzbg]

inspite of Flash`s agression i think it was a fair call - Jaedong had a nudus canal + a sunken , and although Flash does have great macro ... guess what , Jaedong has too. So because of the shorter route for reinforcements advantage to JD.

[@rjesensky]

Great commentary as usual , Klazart should just slow down , sometimes I don't understand shit , mic distorted voice doesn't help either . As a non native speaker I might be wrong ofc .

[@mesobored123]

They probably did it to create a "rivalry" between Flash and Jaedong. Flash beat Jaedong in the OSL and Jaedong beat Flash in MSL so they can create an atmosphere for the KT vs Oz

[@Liaomiao]

Ouch, what a disappointing way to end such an epic game. Yes, I agree that the winner was in the lead, and it was a considerable lead. However, I wouldn't call it an insurmountable or conclusive lead. As Klaz said it's unfair to neglect that lead by replaying the match, but it's also unfair to deprive the underdog the small chance he had of turning the game around. You'd think for the MSL finals they'd stress test the system so something like a blackout coudldn't possibly happen.

[@EnsignN7]

This VOD underestimated the power of the dark side

[@galahumble]

Apparently Flash was almost out of mins at his bases. If so, that's pretty much gg.

[@Balgore8]

Think of it this way everyone! If there was an NHL Hockey Game and it was just starting the 3rd period and one team was up 3:0 and then the power to the stadium went out and the game could not continue. And it was the Stanley Cup game.... There is NO WAY they would award a win to one side over the other.. It would be a rematch for sure, if they could not continue from the exact point they left off at. Same thing should have happened here. Regardless of Jaedong's advantage.

[@TheLordValarath]

With the movement upgrade, and the attack speed upgrade, yes. Cracklings.

[@Balgore8]

Ampitheatres and stadiums use way more electricity guaranteed. And roller coaster parks, etc. Those never shut down... That lower tier stadium should not have been power cut, especially during such an epic sporting event that was aired on TV live...

[@Asmobia]

"Full Ultra + Defiler + 4base + 3 sunkens in 4th base" >> "2bases + mc only + Vessel no tank" Good call.

[@noskilldud]

this was the most epic match ever. so epic it had to blow up. should of been rm who ever you were routing for. moral: you cant make these two players play together cus the game blows up.

[@Jpizzakebab]

what happened in the end?

[@SuperKrizma]

Joaquin Giannelli power outage, judges ruled win for jaedong. it was anybody's game TBH.

[@penna420]

wooow what happend in thiiis omg i just wanted to see a random jaedong vs flash WOOOOW

[@LemonVince]

and crucially : he held his bottom left. No more energy in vessels, 3 sunks and one defiler -> impossible to take this base down.

[@Balgore8]

I completely agree. Whats more unfair guys!? Awarding someone a LOSS, or declaring a potential winner to REMATCH?

[@Jackoo]

kespa refs apparently don't really play the game. it was obvious that the outcome of the bottom left expansion will ultimately decide who will have the lead. base wise there is really not much difference. though z may seem to have an econ advantage, but T's build is mm + sv, so 2 base is PLENTY mineral for him to keep at it. should have been a draw, as the outcome of the 7 o clock battle wasn't clear!