Gundam Theory: Bernie Wiseman Saved Zeon?

[@SolomonSamson747]

0080 is my favorite show, but I’ll never watch it again, the FZ model Zaku II is my favorite but whenever I look at the model in my room I’m sad. No tv show has ever had any sort of emotional impact on me whatsoever...but when Bernie was killed I wept. Even my wife said I was in a funk for over a week. I’m not sure why this show touched me like it did, but for that reason I consider it the highest form of art.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

I can't say that I blame you. It probably hurt so bad because in the end, he didn't NEED to die, regardless of if he decided to fight the Gundam or not. He could have gotten out alive. That, and now Al is scarred for life. The entire ending of the series is a big dramatic soap opera. Christina killed Bernie without realizing it, and Al has to live with knowing that. It's all a big cluster bomb of tragedy and irony. A short series, but they sure packed in the feels.

[@Solipsismreal]

for sure dude. 0080 is so fucking good

[@shinkisaragi4369]

Bro same here!! I own the DVD One of the most emotional Endings I’ve ever seen in any form of media Goosebumps every time I go back and reflect on this series

[@SolomonSamson747]

@@shinkisaragi4369 I never watch the final episode. Maybe once a year..

[@wangchung2157]

I just finished watching the ova and it made me really emotional Ive never wanted to cry watching anything like anime but seeing Alfred realize what war truly is almost broke me I felt genuine sorrow for him and Bernie and even Chris

[@Blahblahblah28504]

Wow. He didn't know it, but Bernie indirectly saved Char from dying at A Baoa Qu by destroying the Alex. Maybe he didn't die in vain after all.

[@jotaroisbestboy7593]

Well Technically he save char indirectly

[@DIEGhostfish]

I'm sure the people of Tibet are very thankful to Bernie. And Dublin too, thinks may have gone rather differently for them.

[@systemshock1139]

He didn't just save zeon he saved the federation too because if char died then we get no zeta Gundam of ZZ Gundam the Titans would be in charge and haman karn would be dead

[@Omnipotentkami]

Amuro: "Finally I killed Char. That means we can have Universal Golden Age." The Titans: *Oh we beg to differ but your optimism is cute.*

[@thelegendmaster3935]

Also Titans: Allow Us To Introduce Ourselves

[@Omnipotentkami]

@@thelegendmaster3935 Titans 🤝 Vist Foundation 🤝 The Federation "Peace is non-negotiable."

[@thelegendmaster3935]

​@@Omnipotentkami Behold! My Time Machine For I Will Stop Anyone Who Will Try To Change History And Keep It The Way It Was! Also Business Is Boomin'!

[@erichickman691]

Even crazier what if...Amuro kills Char during a Cosmic Glow, Lalah vows revenge and pilots the Zeong. The Zeong piloted by a full fledged new type might have been able to tilt the tables in Lalah's favor to either come out on top and defeat the Gundam Alex or they both end up killing each other in some dark Romeo and Juliet shit.

[@austinreed7343]

Neo Zeon: Hold my beer Zanscare Empire: Amateurs. The other three: What was that, punk? Zanscare Empire: Amateurs! CONSENT: Hi!

[@Renagade2332]

In one of the games, White Base shows up at Side 6 to get the Alex Gundam and stop the fight between Bernie and Chris. Interesting to think about Chris joining White Base. Or Bernie living.

[@DIEGhostfish]

How do they stop it without killing him? Just blow his arms off?

[@philipphogerl140]

Chris should have been the protagonist of Stardust Memory imo

[@Renagade2332]

@@philipphogerl140 That would have been amazing tbh

[@giornogiovannatheultimateb8553]

@@philipphogerl140 pretty sure Gato would have been snipes her

[@mrcenturies1820]

Which game and is there a YT vid on it?

[@ZeonicZaku1-Zeon_Grunt_Suit]

This is a pretty solid theory, even with assumptions I can agree that there's a large chance things could play out like you stated. I subbed, keep up the good work.

[@philipphogerl140]

So in your scenario, instead of several decades of Zeon-based wars, we have decades of very firm Titans dictatorship. So potentially just as bad. Althou i suspect the continued opression and atrocities of the Titans might still have spawned some kind of resistance, maybe centered around Axis remnants, around the time of CCA. Also, taking Unicorn into account, there is still the Laplace Box which might become a significant factor in such a conflict. By the time of 0099, we might have a authoritarian Earthnoid Empire vs Spacenoid Rebellion scenario, with a much clearer good-evil duality than in the original UC timeline.

[@DIEGhostfish]

If CDS doesn't go down like it does, will Delaz get his Mobile Armor for Gato?

[@darksungo_already9163]

Honestly, I feel like that Amuro or at least the White Base would've all died at A Baoa Qu since: 1. Amuro would've kept on fighting until the inside of A Baoa Qu exploded, possibly killing him. 2. Amuro wouldn't have been able to guide the crew out of ABQ without Lalah's assistance.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

Hm. That's an interesting angle I didn't think about. I was moreso focused on how the UC falls apart without Char, but that's a likely outcome!

[@alternative915]

Like every Rival goes, without char, amuro purpose will end soon after..

[@GundamKType]

Amuro still would have gotten Lalah's assistance and sensed the destruction of ABQ. All WB crew would still make it out.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@FlashingBladesProductions It's possible that Amuro doesn't get the suit till after Lalah is dead. Or if he kills Char, Char's ghost actually realizes their fight was stupid and he's the one to help Amuro escape, which could be kinda cool... And then goes on Chris Redfielding Amuro about Sayla and the Zeon bloodline for the rest of his life.

[@MentalOutlvl6]

Ah finally someone who acknowledges char deleted affair most people treat it like double zeta

[@DIEGhostfish]

I mean neither of them are anime, so neither of them are canon.

[@aliesterus1.023]

-Honestly it's amazing they found it, it was deleted after all.-

[@erichickman691]

@@DIEGhostfish Ha!

[@justincholos.balisang6884]

​@@DIEGhostfishas long as it fills in the gaps in the story and provides further characterization/context, it can be considered canon. That's what I've been doing to most Gundam manga for the last month, and now I just finished materials related to the OYW. Considering such manga as canon gave me the sense of scale of the OYW that's mostly overlooked due to a lot of side stories not getting animated.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@justincholos.balisang6884 That was mostly just me making a joke about ZZ's OP1 "Anime Ja Nai," but CDA leads into the Zeta Define manga, rather than regular Zeta.

[@jacobshinnick3863]

This is great, I appreciate the way you interpreted the Information. Bernie is one of my favorite characters. To hear that he had lasting impacts from his sacrifice, are comforting. Dude became a pile of hamburger for Honor.

[@manat31790]

While there's a merit to this speculation, it severely undermines whatever message 0080 is trying to send by turning Bernie into yet another martyr for Zeon. The Cyclops Team fails their covert mission, and Colonel Killing's reaction to this setback is to somehow nuke the entire Side 6 just to take down a single Gundam. Bernie could have just left the colony, but he chooses to stay because he happens to see someone who looks like Christina at the spaceport. The reason he chooses to go on a suicide mission against the NT-1 Alex isn't to fight for Zeonic glory or help them win the war, but to stop his superiors from bombing and killing everybody. It's a genuinely honorable sacrifice a man can make to keep being loyal to his faction and at the same time save a kid and a woman he's just met a few days ago and all the strangers in the colony he could have just ignored. Then again, it's Killing's intention behind his orders that highlights how senseless and tragic the whole situation is. Apparently it's just another day in the office for space-bounded Zeon to kill fellow spacenoids to free themselves from whatever they perceive as oppression. It's nonsense. According to the videotape Bernie leaves for Al, it says Al shouldn't hate soldiers because they are only doing what they think are right. If we treat Bernie as a savior for Zeon, then this statement becomes too damn ironic, because Zeonic patriotism is never really in his head. In the end, he's an everyman soldier who becomes capable of making an ultimate decision for those he cares about. Using his death to further glorify Zeon severely undermines what makes him such a great character to begin with.

[@chevalierdunord3732]

Completely agree. The notion that he prolonged Zeon only makes it more tragic and honestly too depressing for such a wholesome OVA.

[@Dixiekov]

SIEG ZEON

[@TeamSpectator]

SIEG ZEON

[@nachinachi5085]

If this theory is true, does that mean that Bernie's sacrifice will not be in vain?

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

That's what I like to believe.

[@DIEGhostfish]

I am sure the Irish and Tibetans are very grateful for him.

[@nanaminsleepy906]

It's a very good theory. Of course we will never know considering the Gundam series are so surprising and hard to predict, but indeed, a brand new improved Gundam for Amuro to use would have indeed ended Zeon, even if Char didn't die, all the upcoming battles would have Alex ready to win, and with such project in the hands of the Federation, they sure would have improved the technology a lot faster.

[@shipmate3577]

Bernie Wise, gone but not forgotten. HAIL ZEON!!!

[@Darkoriax17]

He *did* expose the leadership for almost committing a war crime (or attempting to anyway). So…yeah, he kinda did. He saved Zeon from itself. So the moral of the story is. Char: Thank you, Bernie. Bernie: Uh…sure. You’re welcome?

[@ducanhluu2697]

Damn, I just finished the show and truly believed Bernie didnt die in vain, but rather contributed to sth bigger. And god damnn I was right, tks to yur video recapping entire Gundam universe in higher extended knowledge (I never watched the main Gundam 0079, or play games either), I realized Bernie actually not only saved Zeon, but its living torch, Char Azanable from dying by stopping Alex to be handed to Amuro. I have to level yur theory up, if Amuro ever got a chance to receive Alex, he wouldnt die in the end of Char Azanable because the Alex is more dynamic, more flexible and even better armoured compared to his original Gundam. Thus, it would save him for overheating and exploding while trying to stop the asteroid

[@übermensch_dadaista]

but that happened in CCA many years after this

[@grindersongear759]

Honestly even though a lot of what happened in war in the pocket was isolated it really contribute much to the overall Narrative of the universal century I still consider it one of it's not my favorite Universal Century story because of how realistic and detailed it was Like seriously this is the only Gundam series I could remember that didn't had characters on opposite sides communicating with each other in their mobile suits which sounds more likely in a real military scenario Plus it also had a interesting civilian perspective of the conflict

[@jereythegundamluna4539]

This would be a legit What If…? episode or ova for Mobile Suit Gundam.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Kakarot197 did this about Char's death but didn't explore all the potential fallout of Char's Deleted affair, just the absence of Char in the start of Zeta. And possibly some of CDA in the parts when Axis shows up but I missed that part.

[@ardentfire3956]

It’s spectacular to think that Wiseman’s sacrifice is vindicated by the Butterfly Effect.

[@MarvinT0606]

Imagine Unicorn but Banagher is fighting _Amuro's_ clone instead of Full-Frontal. The Unicorn gets to fight a souped-up, space-optimized version of the Alex Gundam instead of the Sinanju. Holy Sh*t

[@DarkArtistKaiser]

Admittedly I feel its a effort to give meaning to what was ultimately a unneeded sacrifice...but a damn good argument I will admit and concede to. Bernie deserved better regardless and I will always associate the main theme of War in the Pocket with sadness and loss.

[@sirfijoe450]

Bernie is my favorite protagonist of all time tbh.

[@Alexzander1989]

I fail to see how Zeon losing its will to fight sooner would be a bad thing. Then again that could be my Federation boss talking

[@DIEGhostfish]

1:46 Clearly intended for Job John.

[@swivelboiiguess6422]

0:13 well not every mobile suit: the alex is the base of the tristan

[@papersparrow899]

Tristan appears in Twilight Axis, which is between Char's Counter Attack and Unicorn. There were rumors that the Tristan is a repaired version of the damaged Alex, but with different gimmicks and such.

[@ebookjapan8054]

Some of the Gihren's Greed games let you give Amuro the Alex on top of saving Bernie, iirc.

[@robertcross6421]

You did a great job with this video. You should do one on what would happen if Lalah Sune lived. That would be interesting.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

If Lalah survives, she and Amuro join forces, and then go on to join the Titans. (A cookie if you get the reference.)

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@FlashingBladesProductions If Char dies saving Lalah Kamille is recruited into AEUG by a mysterious woman named Quattro Benis.

[@alexisnunez2877]

You make a really good point if amuro gets the Alex no chars counterattack simple as that which affects the timeline 👏

[@paolomendioro6642]

I think Kakarot197 would have a word with you sir.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

Whomst?

[@adamreddick1349]

@@FlashingBladesProductions hes another youtube who has also done theorizing on the situation concerning the Survival of the Alex

[@simiosinople2045]

in my headcanon CCA's Char is the only original Char (as in Casval Rem Deikun). Meanwhile Char Aznable (brown eyes) and Édouard Mass (blue eyes, as in MSG's Char) and even Quattro Bajeena (Zeta) are just clones of CCA's Char. This is to account for the existence of multiple identical Char with very different motives or motivations. Either Newtype abilities or memory dumping (like with Full Frontal) could account for CCA's Char "knowing" what his clones knew. For this reason I could see the evens of the main U.C. series to continue just as.

[@DIEGhostfish]

If the colony is destroyed on its way down because there's no Nue Ziel to stop the Solar System the titans may still form (And Bask Om be regarded as an out and out hero) BUT they wouldn't have the need to suck the colonies dry for food, that would somewhat change the relationship the Titans have with Earth.

[@nanaminsleepy906]

Bernie deserved more (TwT)

[@davidfreeman9404]

Was Char ESSENTIAL to founding AEUG? Couldn't the others have formed something without him? It definitely wouldn't have been the same, almost certainly not as strong. But it could have happened.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

It's likely that the AEUG COULD have potentially have still been founded without Char, but even if that WERE the case, it's highly doubtful they could have defeated the Titans without him and his influence, both on and off the battlefield.

[@kellyderg7294]

Didn't the war End new years day, Jan 1st 0080? And that's ... the day the last episode War in the pocket ends? Sounds like magnetic joints would of had to get applied a lot earlier than that. But that's the whole thing of the series, all of it, in the end, was pointless.

[@DIEGhostfish]

I thought WITP ended on Christmas, the same day as Solomon but you may be right.

[@uandresbrito5685]

The battle happens on Christmas, not on New Year. Amuro could get the Alex in the battle of A Baoa Qu at the latest and most likely earlier

[@johnsouto5221]

You have made several valid points and I can’t fault them.

[@WorthlessWinner]

"He didn't die in vain - his sacrifice led to a whole century of warfare that otherwise wouldn't have happened!"

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

Sundowner: "Give war a chance!"

[@DIEGhostfish]

BUt may have been replaced by Titans tyranny (Depending on if changes to Axis with Char not there mean more or less support for Delaz that alters 0083 so it can't serve as Jamitov's excuse for power.

[@areasevenpro]

Operation Stardust would've still happened with Char out of the picture, as it was the Federation's plan all along. And even if it wasn't, they would've still allowed it to happen.

[@mercuryon8608]

alternate title: "How to cope after War in the pocket's ending"

[@giornogiovannatheultimateb8553]

😭 l can't cope...

[@kuraux56s59]

@@giornogiovannatheultimateb8553 There is. And that is to play Super Robot Wars GC. Where you can save Bernie.

[@giornogiovannatheultimateb8553]

@@kuraux56s59 l can't cope with real ending 😭

[@kuraux56s59]

@@giornogiovannatheultimateb8553 ...Dude. Super Robot Wars may as well be the REAL ending! That series always makes sure to get rid of Tomino's dodgy writing and the UC timeline's fatalistic/nihilistic tone.

[@giornogiovannatheultimateb8553]

@@kuraux56s59 it makes me feel l am coward for not handle an actual pain...

[@Lyzokiel]

This video gave me peace and reassurance. R.i.p Bernie q_q)7

[@DIEGhostfish]

8:40 Okay so what's that remix of the 0083 music?

[@ronniec8218]

Bernie is the goat in my book. Sad he died in the end.

[@erichickman691]

With out Char the Titan would probably still be in power and Scirocco would probably be their leader with Sarah or another woman as a figure head ruler.

[@ualarga]

in theory, Bernie True MVP

[@mercenarybdu]

Ya left out the fact that ZZ would be different without Char being around.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

I thought that was kinda implied by mentioning his impact on the Gryps conflict, since ZZ happens immediately after Zeta. No Char means no Quattro, Zeta happens differently, and that logically means that ZZ happens differently. (I didn't mention it specifically because truth be told, I haven't actually seen ZZ all the way down yet so I couldn't reference specific instances)

[@mercenarybdu]

@@FlashingBladesProductions Amongst the Original, Zeta and ZZ, without all the other materials that further flesh the UC, ZZ is still the best of the three. Whatever Amuro and Kamile couldn't do, Judau does. Also Judau does make it all the way through to the late-UC period with the ZZ in Crossbone and later Victory in the side story manga.

[@jeff3221]

Him keeping Zeon alive isn't a good thing? How many hundreds of millions died in the colony drops in ZZ and CCA? How many colonies were caught up in the conflicts like we see in Unicorn? The UC ends up with the Feds basically just becoming the titans and also losing power anyway, so what does delaying that and killing droves of civilians accomplish? Bernie only died because his own forces were gonna nuke a neutral colony to destroy 1 ms. Calling him a hero of zeon is awful. He wasn't fighting for Zeon when he died, he was fighting for Al and Chris and all the innocents in the colony. He died a courageous man, not a Zeon soldier.

[@DIEGhostfish]

EHhhhh the Post-titans feddies are bad, but not Titans bad. No AEUG, no Republic. (Also with CDA not being canon we don't know how much would change with Axis's involvement in 0083 and the Gryps war. We just know that AEUG is going to get seriously seriously beaten down without Char.)

[@myanimeroom9350]

Poor Bernie. RIP.

[@rayzimmermin]

or it could be because amaro was piloting a gundam he was not already use to piloting he would have lost to char

[@jeff3221]

Char fought Amuro to a stalemate on his first flight of the Zeong. Amuro is by far the better pilot so if he had the Alex instead of a draw, he would have stomped Char

[@rayzimmermin]

@@jeff3221 only if he could use it to its full potential its like having a race car driver who is use to a specific car and the car gets changed to a new car he is not instantly better just because he has a better car

[@jeff3221]

@@rayzimmermin my point is Amuro is a better pilot than Char Char hops in an MS that's way different from anything he's ever piloted and fights Amuro to a draw The Alex is custom built for Amuro, with all its specs designed for him from his own combat data piloting the Gundam. There is no argument that it could go either way, Amuro would win every time.

[@rayzimmermin]

@@jeff3221 once again going to the race car analogy new race car it typically designed for the driver and their skill yet their is that learning curve Also char not being able to match amaro could be down to exactly what i said char was in a new machine he didn't fully know how to use

[@jeff3221]

@@rayzimmermin You are just so wrong. If your race car driver had never once seen a car before and hopped behind the wheel and 2 minutes later went out and won a race against pros, you would have an appropriate analogy. Amuro killed two experienced Zaku pilots in his first couple of minutes inside the Gundam. He would not have any difficulties learning the controls of his custom-built suit. It would take him all of five minutes until he knew its limits. Amuro is also a far better pilot than Char, having beaten and then almost killed him in their previous battle, only being stopped by Lalah. So if Char was unable to use the Zeong well, he simply would have died. I don't know how you watched the show and came to the conclusion that Amuro can be compared to a regular human when he is shown to be a singularity amongst pilots. He was a one-man army.

[@DIEGhostfish]

4:38 ...Wait Saving the people out to destroy the Alex saves the Alex? That's a bit silly, does that mean that the other members of the team force Bernie to leave nuke or no nuke? (And when it turns out "no nuke" the Alex escapes?)

[@PHDnHorribleness]

Any chance you have the link to that Gundam Timeline you mentioned at 3:25? I can't find it.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

This had to be taken from the wayback machine, but here it is. web.archive.org/web/20160425133356/www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/timeline.php

[@PHDnHorribleness]

@@FlashingBladesProductions Unfortunately I can't see it but thanks for responding! I appreciate it.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

@@PHDnHorribleness Huh. Try the link in the description.

[@PHDnHorribleness]

@@FlashingBladesProductions It works! Thanks man.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

@@PHDnHorribleness Excellent! Happy reading!

[@porkflaps4717]

TITANS FOR THE WIN!

[@JonathanVelasquez]

Brilliant

[@vincentalpiepedrozo2337]

Solid Theory

[@isher9035]

I think the whole "Amuro receives RX-78-NT1" is really inconsequential. Because the Alex is only marginally better than the RX-78-3. In the novels, Amuro nearly kills himself repeatedly in the G3 because of the enhanced reaction time. In the anime, he never received the G3, but rather gets the same magnetic coating on the G2. I don't believe he would have killed Char either whether it was the NT-1, G2, or G3. The Alex only had slightly better armaments, better thrust, a wraparound monitor panel and the magnetic coating.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

The difference is scaling. In the novels, the Gundam was much less Super Robot, and a bit more "realistic". Gundam in the novels is by comparison weaker than the Gundam from the anime. It's perfectly fine if you don't agree with the theory, though. I just wanted to make this distinction.

[@isher9035]

@@FlashingBladesProductions I find it to be a nice discussion! I agree to a point, but I think even the movies and original series show the RX-78-2 isn't really a superweapon, but just a little ahead of the curve in technology. The fight with Challia Bull comes to mind.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

​@@isher9035 I will concede that it's been a good while since I read the novel, but if memory serves, it depicts the Gundam as just slightly better than a Zaku, while the show has it being completely immune to the Zaku machinegun. But, it's far from indestructible. The Grabro ripped its leg off, and it was almost destroyed during Hamon's suicide run.

[@isher9035]

@@FlashingBladesProductions Last I remember the book explained that Lunar Titanium Alloy is very resilient to the Zaku MG, but not the bazooka. It still takes damage from either, though. But by A Baoa Qu, Beam weapons were everywhere.

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

@@isher9035 I do remember the Rick Doms having Beam Bazookas. RIP Hayato and Amuro.

[@sorrybusywinning]

TBH 0080 makes me too sad to the point where I can't even buy Gunpla from the series

[@mechanox8937]

Zeig Zeon! o7

[@shadowgl9]

Crazy thing is, Chris almost lost to an underpowered zaku 2 and with an inexperienced pilot, while in a Gundam that's significantly more powerful.

[@Kira22558]

Yep.

[@sarahsparks8615]

🥰🍄

[@petexkinggodzilla]

The only hole in this theory is Char sister

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

Oh? How so?

[@petexkinggodzilla]

@@FlashingBladesProductions i remember Sayla was always doing something in the background, but her brother dying (the absolute last her real family) , could very well change that

[@FlashingBladesProductions]

Hm. That's an angle I didn't consider. It's entirely possible we could see her lead an uprising of Deikun loyalists, like in Gundam The Origin.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@FlashingBladesProductions Wait what, I don;t remember that in Origin.

[@IronSheepEngine]

Through his action and his death, Bernie had save Zeon. Hope the guy's vindicated in the distant future canon. Kakarot197 actually goes into more details on the "what if" on his channel. I recommend everyone to check his videos out.

[@misakikoko4500]

Had Char died early, it would have saved countless lives and prevented all future wars.