Flat slide Mikuni carburetor versus round slide VM22 Mikuni on a Tillotson 212

Flat slide Mikuni carburetor versus round slide VM22 Mikuni carburetor on a Tillotson 212.
Tested the Doodlebug minibike with the VM22 Mikuni carburetor for top speed and zero to thirty times. And then installed a 24MM flat slide carburetor and did the same test to compare the difference.
Doodlebug minibike Playlist - • Baja Racer/ Doodle Bug...
Instagram - Doubledown555black66
__________________________________________________
Parts used -
24 MM Flat slide carburetor - www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08...
Flat slide manifold - www.gopowersports.com/manifol...
Manifold hose - www.gopowersports.com/manifol...
VM22 26MM carburetor - www.ebay.com/itm/263924489898...
*********Disclaimer*********
Please do not try to re-enact or recreate anything you see in these videos.
Black66 does not take any responsibility for injuries or equipment failure created by doing so.
ALL BLACK66 CONTENT IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY.

[@miguelpagansr6128]

Very nicely done, another great video for the books. Thanks for the video and ride safe.

[@Black66]

Thanks !

[@joshuarogers5233]

I forgot to comment late last night! I want to thank you for being so thorough in your video on showing how to hook up the throttle cable to my 24 mm flat side Mikuni! I appreciate you and your channel and what you do keep up the good work man thanks again.. sincerely Joshua Rogers in Ravenna Ohio

[@Black66]

Thanks! Thanks for watching the videos

[@carlchuppa4130]

Love your videos...great learning tools...great job! You the man!

[@Black66]

Thanks! I'm learning right along with you. Every time I test something I learn something new.

[@heathenprojects2639]

Very nice been trying to get a video to upload all day started my project bike today

[@mklein5179]

Best testing videos . As usual! Thanks black!!

[@Black66]

Right on! Thanks!

[@mklein5179]

@@Black66 I got my mikuni round slide on. Now needs tuning. Watched that video also!!

[@Black66]

@@mklein5179 That is a good carb. I like the VM22.

[@bomblifenewzealand]

Love your content brother! Love the comparisons

[@Black66]

Thank you! Thanks for watching the videos.

[@memfusboi]

Love your videos, its motivation on how to build mines. I would love to see a difference in heads (Ported, big valves, & milling)

[@Black66]

Thanks! I would like to do a video on that.

[@cb175s]

Great video Thank you for taking the time to share Great info. 👍

[@Black66]

Thanks! Appreciate you watching!

[@carlchuppa4130]

I want to personally thank you for your videos! You are a great source for someone like me who is building a bike with my young son.You are our go to when we are not sure! With that being said Obi Wan of Tillys we are building a bike using a 212cc Hemi tilly and a 24mm flat slide and the first question we have is do you remember what the O ring is from that we should put on the intake side...also do you have any idea where I can find a parts list or a blow up of the tilly because we are adding some decorative hardware on the motor and we needed bolts sizes...etc. Again thank you soooo much! My son is always saying dad ask that cool looking dude that has the tilly!

[@Black66]

Thanks! Glad the videos help you guys! It will work without the O ring. I just add one to be sure it seals. If it leaks any, it's impossible to tune and won't run right. I used a 22 x 3mm o ring . The Tilly website has some of that stuff under the products tab and then racing and then engines and then scroll down to resources.

[@TheTrooper777]

Great info,thank you for sharing your information, looking forward to building my own with your information 👍

[@Black66]

Thanks!

[@gasNmudtv]

I was all for the test up until you instslled the velocity stack. Without watching the end I can already say the velocity stack with no air filter and the length of intake pipe compared to the round slide carb setup is going to be superior. Then add in the fact that flat slide carbs function smoother. I still enjoyed the video. Nice bike, ride safe.

[@Black66]

Thanks! Check out the playlist for many more bikes,tests and combos! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZLbdHalpq9jiLc

[@daydream2818]

It sounds like it broke down everytime u get off the throttle🤣 love it !

[@emoya319]

SOLD SOLD SOLD nice quality content man 👍🏻

[@Black66]

Thanks!

[@Black66]

Lol

[@WyFoster]

I'd love to see like a 20-40 mph metric. Takes any clutch inconsistencies out of the equation and shows how something performs in the mid range of the engine. Love your content btw.

[@Black66]

Thanks! Ya, I would like to do some videos like that.

[@keithbrown7088]

Badass man awsome video 📹👌🏼😎👏

[@Black66]

Thanks!

[@albertpeterson7134]

Good Job. Now You Need Some More Mini Bikes😁😁

[@Black66]

Thanks ! Yes very true 😂

[@lsxjunkie]

Awesome!!!! Love your content. Where did you get that velocity stack?

[@Black66]

Thanks! It was from an ebay seller. There are quite a few on there that sell velocity stacks. Here is one of them www.ebay.com/itm/173890671075?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[@freshbutplain1144]

Nice! Thanks!

[@alexhaywood326]

Sounds like that clutch needs to be tuned a little. Help keep you higher in the power bank while accelerating.

[@562jamesj]

Do you recall what size oring that was that you added? I’m buying the same carb now

[@JVScustoms]

Hey brother I wanted to ask you, I’ve noticed that you use the mikuni knock offs a lot of the time. Do you notice a difference in the genuine and the knock offs? I’m sure some knock offs are better than others but overall is it really worth it paying like 3 times the amount for the genuine over the knock offs? Thanks man, love your work.. you are the man!!! You have no idea how much you have inspired me

[@Black66]

Thanks! Ya, the genuine do perform better but for the cost, the knock-offs are good enough. And easy to tune . If you want a carb that performs closer to the Genuine Mikuni but is less expensive you could grab a Nibbi like in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rprRfnd4n5KDnZo

[@TOXIC-hb7rc]

You should compare the pwk24mm flatside carb vs the real mikuni flatside

[@tonyalto1014]

Just bought a couple of the predator hemi motors. I've not messed with this type of engine since I was a boy. However, I am putting one in the 1971 Rupp Roadster (don't want to screw with the stock engine) for my ex wife. How far can you bore a 224 predator block?

[@anthonyh.1512]

I’m having trouble finding a proper intake manifold for a pwk 28. You think this intake would work?

[@cameronnewton2685]

Hey there, I have a Coleman CT200U-EX with a single chain system, I was wondering what kind of clutch you would recommend for quality and wear

[@Black66]

I really like this clutch in the 5/8 shaft version for the 196 www.amazon.com/Bravex-Centrifugal-Clutch-Tooth-Chain/dp/B07HFXHNNY/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Bravex+Centrifugal+Go+Kart+Clutch+3%2F4&qid=1630961534&s=automotive&sr=1-4

[@marquislewis1767]

Wanting to switch from vm22 to one of these flat slides on my stage 2 tilly. I have the carb in my cart. Just wondering if you had to rejet the 24mm flat slide like a vm22?

[@mlindsay527]

How about building a header with an O2 sensor in it for carb tuning?

[@CrazyForCooCooPuffs]

Innovate motorsports makes a kit for that

[@BikeLyfeCeas]

My flat side 34mm is on my Honda gx340 with fuel pump and it at high idle I move the idle screw and the idle doesn’t change but I see also my needle doesnt got all the way down still about less than 1/4 open could it be throttle cable

[@Spacecruizer203]

Forget a baja Warrior that thing should be called the baja Space soldier That thing is cookin up that strip!!!!!

[@Black66]

I like that Baja Warrier, It's a sweet bike!

[@UnAttempted]

What key did you use to attach your clutch

[@3dconceptsofutah757]

Thank you! Could you tell what app you use for 0-30 tests?

[@Black66]

For 0 to 30 I use a Dragy performance meter. For top speed, I use digiHUD on my phone

[@Spacecruizer203]

Gps has one that says genuine mikuni vm22 but is the aftermarket one actually a 26mm and with the genuine one does it come with the munting bolts

[@allengobletic_tac_toe_jesu7851]

I have my predator 212 built with the exact same mods. I’m having issues getting the fuel right. What hers are you running in each carb?

[@lomi4267]

Say do you know what's the c clip size on the needle from the vm22

[@Spacecruizer203]

hey my flywheel is rusted to hell an back should i clean it and if so what do i use its for the 3.5 im running the 12 tooth now and when rolling it with out it running everynow n then while im pushing the bike i can hear the motor turning over a lil does that mean the bolt on the shaft that keeps the clutch on is too tight mind you its the 12 tooth with the set screws but they came loose so i just put the bolt in from the hardware store? idk man

[@Black66]

You can use a wire wheel to clean off the rust. As long as the clutch has a keyway and a bolt and washer holding it on the end of the crankshaft you don't need the set screws

[@Spacecruizer203]

@@Black66 thamk ya man for reaLs

[@Sosant260]

Hey 66 what size main jet are you using on the vm 22

[@AAURAW181]

Did you say where you purchased the new carb kit at. Thanks!

[@Black66]

I put links in the description

[@bigyou3136]

24 flatside needs porting done to the head for full power I had to the same thing for mine with a bigger setup then yours

[@macdre14ful]

What size o ring is that you put on the carb?

[@Spacecruizer203]

oh so thats why they call them flat slide this whole time i thougt it meant the side of the carb was flat but the actual throttle body is the flat slide all those mini bike channels and this dude just showed us the gold it makes a cooler sounding grunt too check that out man

[@Black66]

Man, I like that flat slide! It sure feels snappy!

[@DavesCoolCustomBikes]

Need advice my carb is in the way of my jackshaft

[@chax2004]

Where can you buy a doodle bug mini blkr

[@jeffrykopis5468]

Why doesn't the flat slide have a bolt on flange? Are they meant more for actual motorcycles?

[@Black66]

I'm not sure,but its nice to have it clamp on there because you can change the intake length with ease.

[@krudlumpstv7854]

I’m pretty sure that Tillotsons come stock with 26lb valve springs so 22lb springs are actually a down grade but other than that great video 👍🏼

[@Black66]

Thanks! Mine did not. I always use the weakest springs I can get away with. Or the springs recommended in the cam package...most of the time. Other times I will go along with my channel description and run stuff most say I shouldn't lol

[@damendavid3634]

I have a question. I have a stock predator 212 right now but have plans for future performance upgrades. My mini bike has a 60 tooth rear sprocket. I don’t know what amount of teeth I want for the clutch. I would like a balanced ratio right now for acceleration and top end while it is stock and future plans. If someone can answer this I will greatly appreciate it. I would like to know how many teeth I should have for the clutch thanks.

[@oldhillbillybuckkowalski]

Trying to find a gear ratio that will give a good balance between acceleration and top end speed with a stock Predator 212 as well as working well for acceleration and top end after significant modifications later would be a pretty tough thing to accomplish. This is because in stock form the engine has a governor that severely limits RPM which means that top speed is also pretty limited. Yes, putting a larger drive sprocket or smaller driven sprocket can raise top end, at least in theory, because it obviously lowers the amount of RPM required to achieve any particular top speed. There are 2 problems with this though. Obviously it reduces acceleration, but if you select a ratio that would theoretically raise your top speed by more than just a few MPH you might actually find yourself going slower because a stock Predator 212cc engine probably won't pull hard enough to reach the same peak RPM that you could reach with your stock ratio. So if your top speed at 3,600 RPM with the stock ratio was 27 MPH for example, and you dropped 7 teeth off your rear sprocket and now the engine can't pull past 3,100 RPM at about 25 MPH is often a typical result. By the same token, if you choose a ratio that gives your stock engine much better acceleration, and then later start modifying the engine that same ratio may cause you to find yourself accelerating really quickly but then running out of RPM you can turn without ejecting a magnet from the flywheel or creating an emergency exit for the connecting rod through the front of the crankcase. My personal recommendation is to choose a goal for acceleration and top speed numbers, then start modifying the engine to reach the power level required for your performance goals, then when your engine package is where it needs to be, ride/test and see which direction you need to go with your ratio to get the acceleration/top speed balance that works best for you. For the mean time, with a stock Predator 212cc to get the best out of both acceleration and top speed a TAV or Comet style torque converter/CVT seems to do pretty well, and can be done pretty cheap ( or not as cheap, but seems to work even better the Juggernaut torque converter/CVT) My Massimo Warrior 200 had a stock top speed of 24 MPH. A stock Predator 212cc with a cheap $50 torque converter got it up to 35 MPH while still able to wheelie on take off with my 215LBs sitting on it. A governor delete, drilling a few holes in the air box ( okay, about 35 holes ) increased it to 42 MPH. Then because I had a 46 tooth rear sprocket laying around I swapped it for the stock 50 tooth and lost 3 MPH.

[@joshuarogers5233]

I payed $251 for the 24mm flat slide Mikuni kit from Studz racing. I just got that carb today. But now it's 12:22am in Ohio. Damn if i buy one again I'm gonna buy everything separate

[@Black66]

You are up late messing with minibike stuff! Good man!

[@ziggybammurphy1645]

What did u jet the flat slide @? Pilot and main? Great video btw

[@Black66]

Thanks! Haven't touched the pilot on this carb. It's using a 130 main. I'm at 3500-foot elevation.

[@jesusmontoya9879]

How would it gain mph? At the end of the day valve springs are what limit the rpm & top speed. I'm sure its quicker, but idk about faster

[@Black66]

The flat slide totally out performs the VM 22. But for the money the VM22 is still a good carb.

[@trey1sauce165]

I was just about to order the VM22 until I seen what you had said about the flat slide. I’m now about to order the flat slide! Do I need to get a specific intake? Throttle cable? Anything else? Thanks man, such a great video!

[@Black66]

Thanks ! Ya, you do need a different intake for the flat slide . The same throttle cable will work for the VM22 or the flat slide .

[@trey1sauce165]

@@Black66 awesome, where can I find that intake manifold boot and do you order 32mm boot or 34? Thanks again!

[@Black66]

I can get you this link if you need it

[@Black66]

@@trey1sauce165 let me get home and I’ll get you the links

[@trey1sauce165]

@@Black66 that’d be perfect!

[@michaelg7862]

What spark plug are you running?

[@nealwhite8425]

R'IIIGHT , I love the video , R'IIIGHT

[@Black66]

Thanks!

[@carlchuppa4130]

Is there a certain type of throttle cable that will work for the Mikuni flat and I'm in Ohio and not sure how to jet it,,,Thanks!!

[@Black66]

It takes the same cable as the VM carbs. Nothing special. You can even use an old cable that's on the bike already if you cut it to length and solder an end on it for the slide. The flat slides come with a 120 or 130 main . I would try it out of the box first and see what it does. Sometimes they are close .

[@krudlumpstv7854]

Any pit bike throttle cable for like a 110cc or 150cc pit bike should work with ought having to do any soldering and as far as the jets go if it will not idle smoothly than try a bigger pilot jet or if it will idle but won’t rev out try putting a bigger main jet in it and if doing either of those things makes it worse than try going smaller rather than bigger but not to small or it will run to lean which can cause damage

[@shepdizzle20]

Have u tried the Tillotson PK-1B stock carburetor. If u haven't. U would be surprised of the value.

[@Black66]

Yes, I used the Tillotson carb in this video ,check it out kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3XChqmaftZkqJI

[@300zxdriver]

Nice

[@donniefisher4512]

What jetting are you running in the vm22? Having a heck of a time with mine can't get it right

[@Black66]

My jetting most likely will be different than your because I live at a high elevation. Every combo is different depending on engine mods. I'm running between a 110 main to a 130 main depending on the carb and mods in the engine. Have you watched this video? kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5-0p3yie71rnq8

[@donniefisher4512]

@@Black66 I have now lol. Thanks for the info great stuff. I'll play with it this weekend.

[@garagemancave666]

Very interested in the tires you are using on this bike. Care to share the size?

[@Black66]

They are called , Ultimate Mini Bike Street Tire 15 x 5-6

[@juice319]

Where did you get the rubber adapter to connect the carb to the manifold

[@Black66]

GoPowerSports

[@juice319]

thanks a lot best mini bike channel on youtube!!!

[@Black66]

@@juice319 Thanks! Thank you for watching the videos!

[@nickclashez]

Give it a little more road and it would have went faster and I bet if you used the stock TQ clutch/not the Juggernuat you would hit a higher top speed in the same amount of road

[@jeffrykopis5468]

What the hell?? Why were there 3 clear hoses coming off that flat slide? What are they all for?

[@Black66]

Just vents and overflow. You don't really have to have the hoses on there for the carb to work.

[@Exclusv]

Where did you get the velocity stack?

[@carlchuppa4130]

Ebay sells them also in different colrs

[@SvR602]

What’s the jetting on the flatslide?

[@Black66]

120 main jet

[@RedfishInc]

Your neighborhood looks familiar to me. Are you in Fernley?

[@Black66]

No, Kingman

[@daviddepuy9843]

I was thinking El Paso, myself.

[@CrazyForCooCooPuffs]

Now I know why I can get my bike to idle unless the choke is on cause I didn't use a d o-ring

[@Black66]

There is that leak we were talking about

[@ghikjedv5442]

What stage is the tilloston

[@Black66]

The engine has a billet rod and flywheel , 265 cam with 22 LB springs , 12 thousandth thin head gasket ,24 MM Flat slide carb and a header pipe . I don’t know what stage you would consider it .

[@rolfpfeiffer9858]

This is an Interesting comparison. However, you failed to provide a reason why the flat slide Mikuni has an advantage over the round slide Mikuni. The apparent differences are the throttle bore, 24 for the flat slide and 22 for the round slide. Does a flat slide cause less turbulence after the slide than the round slide? Another mayor difference is the intake funnel on the flat slide that was not present on the round slide Mikuni. It might be that air intake funnel that makes all the difference. Please run the same test on the 24 bore flat slide carburetor and report back on top speed and time to reach 30 mph. It would be very interesting to see the results. To my assessment that funnel makes all the difference.

[@sandmanbub]

@Whoop!

[@GoodFellasMiniBikez-GFMB]

i wish u were my neighbor 😂

[@michaelg7862]

Do you have to change any jets?

[@Black66]

Yes, I changed out the 130 main jet for a 120. I'm at high altitude. Check out the playlist for this bike kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIGxmZWFi7Zqr7M

[@michaelg7862]

@@Black66 what state? I am in Colorado so we are a mile up in elevation. I am wanting to switch to a flat side.

[@Black66]

@@michaelg7862 You are even higher than I am. It's hard to say what jet you will need for sure but it most likely will be smaller because of your elevation.

[@slim2peezy281]

Do u have a billet rod and flywheel?

[@Black66]

Yes sir. Check out the playlist for this bike kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zom6Y6ZjfaZ7Zpo

[@slim2peezy281]

@@Black66 do u know what size the stock springs are in the tilly?

[@Black66]

@@slim2peezy281 I think they are 18

[@justbuilds8248]

If I wanna install a VM22 carb would I need to remove governor?

[@Black66]

Yes you do, because when you install a VM22 you get rid of all the external linkage. Which is nice because it cleans up the engine.

[@justbuilds8248]

@@Black66 damn I rlly dont wanna mess up my engine tho. its like a honda clone but a lot better imo. even with a bad gear ratio top speed is 38 MPH. but with the VM22 isnt the throttle linkage also different ? so would it interfere with the governor ?

[@Black66]

@@justbuilds8248 Yes, With the VM22 you can solder an end on the stock cable. You get rid of all the stock throttle linkage on the engine. It cleans up the engine really well. Yes, with the VM22 you have no governor. About 3.40 minutes into this video I solder a tip on the cable. Easy to do.

[@justbuilds8248]

@@Black66 oh I see. so its a must to remove the governor. but since there is no governor would I have to upgrade other parts of the engine to make it compatible with the high rpms?

[@justbuilds8248]

@@Black66 I seen another one of ur videos where u remove the governor and install a VM22. My question is do I have to open up the engine and get the white plastic gear out too. or could I just get rid go the governor arm and linkage?

[@slim2peezy281]

Is the motor stock?

[@Black66]

No it’s not . Check out my other videos on this bike . I show the modifications

[@NONAME-kw3pu]

the 22mm is the standard and cheaper. for most ppl that is good enuf. going ... over... 35mph on something with such small tires not for me.

[@Black66]

Check out the playlist for many more carb test kzbin.info/www/bejne/roebmmhvlqyIl9E

[@CrazyForCooCooPuffs]

get a mega moto 212 pro bruh before they run out

[@FPVivid]

a linear flow intake vs a restrictive air filter makes this kinda unfair of a test...

[@Black66]

Yes, I agree. I have tested the flat side against the VM22 with the same filter. The flat slide does seem to outperform the VM22 on the average-built Predator. But the VM22 is still a great carb for the money. Especially when you can get the entire kit for around $40 with intake included.

[@FPVivid]

@@Black66 Thanks for the follow-up. for the little gain, i still stick with the VM22 for the price and viability (in Canada). cheers, and thanks for the educational vids!

[@4687878]

Real Japanese Flatslide Mikuni vs Chinese vm 22 copy ...no brainer !!

[@Black66]

Sure ,its a no brainer. But its fun to see what the difference actually is.

[@fpsfein]

Looks like the one he used isn't a real mikuni though 🤷

[@Spacecruizer203]

That's a 250 buck kit

[@Black66]

Check the links in the description. It is a $56 carb

[@Spacecruizer203]

@Black66 OK I just was on GPS must be for the real deal one lol thanks man great talk 💪🏼

[@ratdad48]

You should never install an O ring dry.

[@Black66]

That's not the only thing I shouldn't have done! Check out my channel description. lol

[@mikesbarn1858]

Just shows that the 22 was starving the engine for fuel and air.