FLATOUT VS IRONMAN: A 9 Part Analysis Of Subaru Suspension Lifts (Video 1 of 2)

[@flatoutsuspension264]

Hey everyone! Figured I’d jump in here on this to offer a bit of updates. This was an early adaptation which has VASTLY improved. We’ve fixed the clunk (which some know happened as a result of a supplier shortage on our internal noise isolator when the shock would expand to full length; which only affected the GR Lite). Anyone that had the issue had shocks replaced under warranty. My records show a 375/325 F/R rate (which seems really high for the fronts), but we weren’t as good about keeping rate records then as we are now. Being unsure of the rates, we are sending 4 new springs using our current configurations. The new rates should help with the travel considerably on the ramp test and get the articulation that bumps us ahead (provided the heights are matched between our GR Lite and the IM+Spacers). Stay tuned for updates from Brucey after we get the parts to him. Edit: I’m glad videos like this exist because we are ALWAYS striving to do better. If we don’t know where our products are lacking, we can’t make things better. You may see this as a win for the other guys, we see this as an opportunity to do better - and we’re going to!

[@SubaruAmbassadorRobert]

You're amazing!!! Seeing this level of support makes me very happy I chose you all for my Ascent's needs!!! My GR40's for my Ascent are just waiting on Rallitek to finish testing their rear adjustable lateral arms so I can install them and make good use of them. Expect a TON of vids and pics from my adventures all over Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Long Island, NJ Pine Barrens and the rest of the North East.

[@Timelrd_OBW]

The "clunk" happens to me on my brand new GR40s!

[@Memetologist]

@@Timelrd_OBW Unlucky, 3k down the drain

[@JCasper-sq2vl]

Brucey, have you popped on the spec-c kit yet? I'm about to right now but have seen a few issues people were having in forums. I like to give the benefit of the doubt to both manufacturer and end user, but really respect your knowledge and ability to install things correctly. If you haven't gotten it yet, what are your impressions so far with what you know about it up to now?

[@bruceyyyyy]

I have the spec c kit installed and am about halfway through testing it.

[@acsmoothing2262]

Big thanks to you and your wife for doing all this testing, and then sharing your results. It will help me sort out what option to take to keep the ride comfort that I love in my Outback while addressing the rear sag I get, fully laden, when I take it out on forest roads for camping trips.

[@bruceyyyyy]

Ya I just don't think it's possible to have the softest ride, the best handling, the least resistant to sag, etc at the same time. There is going to need to be a balance there. (:

[@faridessack]

Brilliant review - thank you for your time and effort (and camera wife!). My wife and I are both mechanical engineers and enjoyed the vid. Until you explained you had multiple cars I kept thinking, does he keep swapping the suspensions 😂!

[@bruceyyyyy]

No we kept swapping the suspension! It's all the same car in this video (except where noted)

[@Lucrativesoldier]

Love the vid! Just what I needed to help with a hard decision. I was all for the Flatout Suspension, but my biggest concern with them was not enough video reviews etc, to see how they perform. I reached out to them to try and collaborate something, but they only offered a 10% discount. Unfortunately that’s not enough when the competition is half the price, and again, no reviews to back the performance claims. Thanks again for a great comparison video!👍🏾

[@mnbvlkjhgpoiuyt]

thank you for taking time and doing these tests

[@robsouthoz]

Very interesting and well put together comparison. The Flatouts do have higher spring and damper rates, and better suited loaded up while travelling offroad, such as on a camping trip. The adjustability is great, but can limit wheel travel if not adjusted correctly. Recently on a big trip I had to increase the spring preload to compensate for load and prevent bottoming out, and could tune the shocks to conditions which was invaluable.

[@freedom_foz_6337]

You rock sir 🎉 I firmly believe the flatout kit is only good if you truly need easier height adjustment. There are no other benefits of the kit and unfortunately quality control is an ongoing issue. Which stinks because there is a lot of potential there 😢 but simple is good simple is strong I love my Ironman kit and would recommend it to anyone.

[@Milthiadus]

Awesome video my friend, as always :) Very interesting comparison. I have a same one in my mind, but u made it in real life. Thank you bro! ;)

[@NothingCoherent]

That clunking noise from the Flatout also happens in Crosstreks. It's a well documented, common problem on our discussion boards. Maybe their more expensive suspension models are better, but from what I've seen, the GR Lites aren't great, especially considering the higher price tag. I don't know what would compel me to purchase them over the Ironman.

[@Jaegov]

I absolutely love love love my Ironman suspension on my 15 OB👍🏻! I run a strut tower brace and 20mm rear sti sway bar, 245/75/16 Toyo open country’s, (some heat and cut required), but everything performs perfectly for all of my anticipated needs. On road manners are responsive, rough roads work that baja suspension, not my fillings, and goes exactly where I aim it. Muddy trails were awesome and the dips caused me no issues either through the increased height and surprising articulation even with the larger sway bar. I have to add that my Ironman kit (early one) has a rake on it and when loaded levels with the front. I have no issues with sag.

[@ruxican1762]

good work you man. you need to add one of them 'buy me coffee' buttons. Christmas is coming!

[@tpseeker3367]

Thank You so much for doing Brucey & Camera Wifey.

[@RLB540]

I grew impatient waiting for your comparison video and finally pulled the trigger on the Ironman Spec C last week for my '17 3.6R I'll be curiously watching to see if I'll have buyers remorse! Edit: oh you forgot to add kPa as an additional tire pressure measurement unit lol (wife's '19 Crosstrek came from the factory with the dash showing kPa for all the tires, learned something new that day!)

[@bruceyyyyy]

KPA! That's what I couldn't think of (: Well so far I think the standard Ironman is the winner unless it's a 3.6 with a few hundred extra lbs at all times.

[@007LACHLAN]

Awesome work

[@SpawnOfOden]

That is extremely surprising to see the Flatout suspension travel limit. I'm curious if it has something to do with the way they springs/coil overs are set up, as the adjustment might make a difference? If your spring rate is super high that would make a big difference. I know they do custom spring rates so that might be worth noting. I love this video though, thank you so much for making it!!

[@ozeltzex1]

I have the Ironman on my Crosstrek and it's perfect. Always wondered about Flatout which costs double, but not anymore... 😂 Only thing better in stock configuration is the damp over metal speed bumps in parking lots. With stock, it's barely noticeable. In all other situations - Ironman is king.

[@xpoverland]

bruceyyyyy, Thanks for this comparison video. There's a lot of info here. One thing I'd really like to see is the difference between with and without sway bar on your incline ramp. Also, since Ironman doesn't have a suspension setup for my 2017 Forester, my only real option (unless anyone here knows of another) is Flatout. I've been looking at their suspension for a while now. In your follow up video with the "corrected" parts, you didn't demonstrate if the clunk was still there in the speed bump test. The clunk would be a serious deal breaker for me and several people here have commented that the clunk is an issue with different models. I'd also really like to see a comparison between stock with sway bar and Flatout with sway bar as well as both stock and lifted minus sway bar. THANKS for what you're doing!

[@bruceyyyyy]

I demonstrated in the new video with the revised set up at 0:28 going over the same speed bumps at the same speed with no clunk. There is some noise from cargo in the back in the video. However the clank/bang is 100% corrected. I apologize for not making it more clear with editing. I also have to apologize for not testing with sway bars but unfortunately I don't think I can. Not fairly anyway. I broke an original set then broke a set of Rallitek modified ones and never got around to installing the third set. Actually gave them to someone when they installed a lift on their Outback. So I would have to order a set of end links just to be able to connect them. Without any real empirical data I would say: The end links connected would decrease how far it can drive up the ramp across the board.

[@xpoverland]

@@bruceyyyyy thanks for the reply. Yeah, no need to blow more money on sway bars for that rig. But maybe you could disconnect sway bars from the Forester to illustrate the difference between the stock (wilderness) version and the Ironman/flatout systems? We could then guesstimate how much the sway bars inhibit articulation on your ramp, then get a rough idea of the differences between all three suspensions. Wouldn't be exact, but still helpful. Thanks!

[@bruceyyyyy]

I could do that! I had a previous video testing the stock travel with and without end links but it wasn't on that ramp that has an easy mark built in.

[@74surfboards]

You had me at "Why lift a Subaru? Well... it's fun." #BestVideoEver

[@joeytong9619]

I also have the ironman stand spec on my outback wilderness little over 8k miles. Kind of disappointed on the rear lift and the ironman stand coil don't like extra weight! I have full skids, and rock sliders + the roof system about 250lb in total weight, I am already sagging 1 inch without anyone in the car. I am going to change to spec-c for the rear in the coming week, and possible adding 1" ADF body fit after. is perfect that I see you also have the ADF body fit for the rear alone with the ironman. Can you share what other parts I need to add additional ADF 1" inch at the rear?

[@raksh9]

Is it just me, or at 4:23 is there a very slight camber to the front left wheel? It looks as if the wheel is angled ever so slightly.

[@bruceyyyyy]

I think the angle looked off because the car was on 3 wheels mostly.

[@JDS-Dalton]

I had a '19 forester with the standard ironman kit and if I was just off roading, I liked it a lot, but if I was going camping, I'd definitely dealt with the sag just from my camping gear. I traded in my '19 with the lift to my dealership, trading it in for the wilderness trim, and had to lift it. Ended up going for the spec-c (even though ironman never offered to give me a new one! Lol) and it certainly rides way stiffer. Haven't had the chance to take it off road yet though.

[@bruceyyyyy]

Does it ride stiffer than factory?

[@JDS-Dalton]

@@bruceyyyyy oh, big time! Hated how soft the stock ride was compared to how firm the ride was with my lifted '19. Only thing I do not like is going over speed bumps.

[@adamcrane3126]

So is the standard Ironman kit like the stock suspension in terms of softness and everyday driveability or is it firmer and less compliant over bumps in the road? thanks

[@oleg_kl]

Thank you for comparison. I bought standard Ironman for my 3.6, if feels soft on off-road, but firm on small bumps. Maybe need to give it more miles. Also have a trouble with front wheel alignment, can’t put it in factory recommended range, will need to cut some new hole.

[@bruceyyyyy]

Are you running the end links? Try disconnecting them just for a test. They seem to bind with lifted applications and I went through several before giving up on keeping them on.

[@oleg_kl]

@@bruceyyyyy do you think end links can cause problems with alignment?

[@bruceyyyyy]

I think it's a possibility but unlikely.

[@oleg_kl]

@@bruceyyyyy I think ironman in European version have some changes in holes positions. So in my US market Outback it turnout in way too positive camber

[@userer4579]

Thanks for putting together the info for this video. Do you know the front and rear spring rates for the Ironman and the Flatout components? It seemed like the coilovers had stiffer springs than the Ironman struts, at least on the rear .

[@51249ca]

stock suspension on a Gen 5 with the 3.6r engine is pretty good

[@wanglee21]

So the Iron man is softer for off-roading and but not really for towing heavy, While the Flatout is more stiff and has less sag. I heard the factory suspension have less sage than the Iron man but not sure about the Flatout.

[@donaldtuc]

I wouldn't be the lest bit surprised if the type c had less articulation because the stiffer springs. I'm really surprised by the flat-out being so limited in travel.

[@bruceyyyyy]

Ya. I really think it's going to come down to a trade off on comfort, handling, travel, and sag. Basically everything I'm testing. (:

[@thewiredfox2691]

Spring rate too high on the GR Lite? Does the GR Lite have the pillow ball / non-OEM style tophat? Did you disconnect sway bars for any tests? Road noise on a roof rack: spiral wrap cordage or a bungee(s) around the crossbars. Significantly reduces noise from the crossbars.

[@bruceyyyyy]

Swaybars disconnected for all tests. FO had is rally top hat here. Interesting call on the roof rack!

[@nectasskiff]

I have a 2" lift and oversized tires, not too oversized on my Ascent. I have gone thru 3 front sway bars in the past year. Should I just remove the front sway bars? Any side effects? I drive 90% highway, then my ranch in South Texas.

[@bruceyyyyy]

I've removed both and it still drives better than most trucks I've driven. Mine also kept breaking the front sway bar end links.

[@sonny1597]

I have a 2021 Trek Sport .. lifted 2" .. Toyo All Terrains and a skid plate. I noticed that you have the torsion bar disconnected. What does that gain you? I just replaced a broken torsion bar link and thought to myself if I disconnect the other one I'd have the same as a torsion bar disconnect kit.

[@bruceyyyyy]

Mine kept breaking end links. So I just removed it. It helps with articulation and comfort off road but leans more on road cornering.

[@JamieUtah]

Was the Forester wilderness tested with the sway bars connected and the outback tested without them? This would make a several inch difference in travel regardless of the suspension used, wouldn't it?

[@bruceyyyyy]

So the Forester Wilderness, the Nissan Xterra, and the 2019 Grey Outback are all stock with attached sway bars. They're for baseline data to show how other vehicles perform on the same ramp. The green 2017 Outback has them removed for all tests to remove them as a factor with the various suspension assemblies.

[@JamieUtah]

@@bruceyyyyy awesome, thanks for clearing that up. Keep up the great content.

[@51249ca]

Still waiting for my replacements :(

[@51249ca]

Do your Flatout's have the OEM tophats?

[@bruceyyyyy]

They do not.

[@mattnucci7716]

What spring rates are on your Flatouts?

[@bruceyyyyy]

They're just listed as heavier spring rates due to carrying extra weight. Not 100% sure on lb/in

[@mattnucci7716]

@@bruceyyyyy can you find out? I have some on order for my 4th Gen and can still waffle on my springs. You are saying you have the “overload” rates though right?

[@bruceyyyyy]

I can. I will contact flat out but it's unlikely they'll answer on a Sunday.

[@bruceyyyyy]

375/325

[@mattnucci7716]

@@bruceyyyyy whoa. Been corresponding with the guy there saying that 225 up front and 350 for “overload” rear is the best fit for a 13 2.5l. I have to assume you’re saying 325 up front and 375 in back

[@anthonyrussell4486]

So ironman better than flat out? I'm surprised, I thought the flatout was a more expensive, better designed, option?

[@bruceyyyyy]

It depends on what you value from the car.

[@bradhazard4118]

THATS A 1991. OR 1992 OR 1993 FORD FESTIVA. THEY DIDNT SELL THEM. IN 1987. AND ONLY 1991. OR 1992 OR 1993. FESTIVAS HAD COLOR MATCHED BUMPERS. AND ONLY ON THE GL TRIM. THE REST ALL HAD DARK GREY BUMPERS. THANKS HAVE A. NICE DAY. TELL BARB DEB. SAYS HI. GOBBLESS

[@therootedprogress]

Ultimate take away from this video... Why lift a Subaru? Because it's fun 😊

[@GamerNxUSN]

Well iron man doesn't make the ATS for SJ so there's that

[@bruceyyyyy]

You should ask them to if you're interested.

[@GamerNxUSN]

@@bruceyyyyy I asked when they first released the ATS what 2 years ago now? And they said they were working on it or at least they hinted that, since it's been about 2 years I assume they probably abandoned it. I just wish there were more suspension lift options, I really don't want to go with spacers but I need something that can prevent the sag I get with a loaded up hitch gate carrier and roofrack when I go camping.

[@WillMcSpadden]

It’s easy Ironman = garbage Flat out = your absolute best way to go

[@bruceyyyyy]

What is this based on?

[@WillMcSpadden]

@@bruceyyyyy functional use.

[@bruceyyyyy]

@@WillMcSpadden Uh. OK?